RALEIGH, North Carolina (AP) -- An openly gay student is fighting to campaign in his high school election with posters that read: "Gay Guys Know Everything!" and "Queer Guy for Hunt High."

Seventeen-year-old Jarred Gamwell has enlisted the help of the American Civil Liberties Union to reverse a principal's decision last week that stripped the posters from the halls of James B. Hunt Jr. High School in Wilson.

"The school administration's removal of these two campaign posters is a clear violation of Jarred's constitutional right to free expression," Leslie Cooper, an ACLU attorney, wrote in a letter to the school Monday. "The Supreme Court has made it clear that students do not shed their constitutional rights at the [B]schoolhouse gate."

School officials say they have the right to control and censor candidates for student body president, especially when their speech could interfere with learning.

"The language in the two campaign posters in question was determined to be disruptive to the educational process and to have no relevance to the student's qualifications for office," said Robert E. Kendall Jr., school district spokesman in Wilson County, 40 miles east of Raleigh.

In a letter to the ACLU, a lawyer for the district, David Orcutt, also said the school would also seek to prevent Gamwell from making similar statements in a campaign speech set to be broadcast Tuesday over the school intercom. Students vote Wednesday.

School administrators "have in no way attempted to regulate Mr. Gamwell's right as a homosexual nor have we in any way attempted to regulate his freedom of speech on those issues off-campus," Orcutt wrote.

Gamwell said in a phone interview Monday he has long suffered verbal harassment at the school, both from students and some teachers. The junior became public about his sexual orientation in the ninth grade.

The name-calling "rolls off my back," he said. "It's not something that's going to get me down. I have pride, and I have personal character."

Gamwell said he plans to speak Tuesday about what he will do for students as president of the student government. He said he wrote a second speech addressing censorship and the events of the last week, but said he will not deliver it.

By contacting the ACLU, Gamwell said he hoped to "raise awareness of what's going at the school, what administrators and teachers are trying to get away with. I want students to take their rights seriously."
Copyright 2004 The Associated Press.
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Complete Story from CNN's website - Check out the Pics of this Campaign Posters! (http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/South/04/27/gay.student.posters.ap/index.html)

I guess I'm being naive when I think that posters proclaiming that "Gay Guys Know Everything" or "Queer Guy for Hunt High" will win elections. What difference does it make and WHY do you need to insert that into a school election poster? Hetero candidates aren't proclaiming "STRAIGHT GUYS ARE SMART" or "HETERO MALE WHO LIKES TO HAVE SEX WITH WOMEN NEEDS YOUR VOTE". When did a person's sexuality take center stage before education?

its just another attention getter, "look at me, I am gay, I am important, look at me!" then lawyers will get involved and force everyone to acept the gay guy and let him plaster gay propaganda all over the place and expect everyone to celebrate and idolize him for his courage, its the same old thing as usual. force everyone to accept him or else, its part of the march to make homosexuality as wholesome as grandmas apple pie. if your not jumping for joy that this guy gets to put posters saying to vote for him becasue he likes sex with other men then you are wrong, and need to be adjusted.

Originally posted by Travh20
its just another attention getter, "look at me, I am gay, I am important, look at me!" then lawyers will get involved and force everyone to acept the gay guy and let him plaster gay propaganda all over the place and expect everyone to celebrate and idolize him for his courage, its the same old thing as usual. force everyone to accept him or else, its part of the march to make homosexuality as wholesome as grandmas apple pie. if your not jumping for joy that this guy gets to put posters saying to vote for him becasue he likes sex with other men then you are wrong, and need to be adjusted.

While I do support most "gay rights", I sympathize with the feeling that acceptance of homosexuality is being shoved down our throats.

No candidate should run for an office based on any sexual or excretory functions.

Excretory? Wholesome as Grandma's Apple Pie? LMAO!! True, completely true.

its part of the march to make homosexuality as wholesome as grandmas apple pie.

This argument is old, busted, and a straw man to boot. Equal rights is what gays & their friends want, not making everyone accept homosexuality. Frankly, I don't give a rat's ass what you think of homosexuality.

tell me borg, what in this story has anything to do with equal rights? I think in your mind absolutely anything gays do, no matter how inapproriate or irresponsible is some gramd, noble fight for equal rights. talk a bout a straw man. Equal rights is about acceptance, no matter how you cut it. While I accept gays and who tey are, i sont want to have to hear about it everyday over my bowl of wheaties. I dont agree with it or support it. that doesnt mean I hate gays, for I could care less waht they do, why do we have to hear about it every day in every facet of our lives?

How is making those posters inappropriate or irresponsible? Also, didn't you once say something to the effect of "It is not your right to not be offended"?

Again...WHY does he have to use the "gay issue" on his posters or in his campaign?? Who really gives a rat's ass? As I said, heteros aren't broadcasting their sexuality, right? Why make it a leg of your campaign? If he loses the election, it will no doubt then be a discriminatory issue. Besides, there is NO PROOF that gay guys know everything...right Vile??! :D

I never said that this guys posters specifically were inapropriate or irresponsible, although I would now say that they are at least innapropriate, and I never said I was offended, I am just tired of gay this and gay that eating up al the news time everyday.

Originally posted by saycricket
Again...WHY does he have to use the "gay issue" on his posters or in his campaign??

The question isn't why does he have to mention his sexuality, the question is whether the school has the right to censor his speech.

Who really gives a rat's ass? As I said, heteros aren't broadcasting their sexuality, right? Why make it a leg of your campaign?

Nobody gives a rat's ass about his sexuality except him, and if he wishes to broadcast it that's his right. Making it a leg of his campaign probably would have cost him the election in SC, but now that the school has stepped in a pile, who knows?

If he loses the election, it will no doubt then be a discriminatory issue.

Now you're starting to sound like Trav.

Besides, there is NO PROOF that gay guys know everything...right Vile??! :D

There is no proof, but there is plenty of anecdotal evidence...:D

Originally posted by saycricket
Again...WHY does he have to use the "gay issue" on his posters or in his campaign?? Who really gives a rat's ass? As I said, heteros aren't broadcasting their sexuality, right? Why make it a leg of your campaign? If he loses the election, it will no doubt then be a discriminatory issue. Besides, there is NO PROOF that gay guys know everything...right Vile??! :D I can answer that. The reason why he mentions his sexuality is because when he loses he can bitch and moan about how he wasnt elected because he is a homosexual as you mention in your post. As Trav said, this another example of someone getting their 15 minutes of fame. He's just using his sexuality to get his. These are the only two reasons for it IMO.

Originally posted by HaVoK
I can answer that. The reason why he mentions his sexuality is because when he loses he can bitch and moan about how he wasnt elected because he is a homosexual as you mention in your post.

If he bitches and moans it will only be because the principal of his school is an idiot.

As Trav said, this another example of someone getting their 15 minutes of fame. He's just using his sexuality to get his. These are the only two reasons for it IMO.

It's entirely possible that was his motive, but it wouldn't have worked except for the principal of the school.

he has a right to do that, as lomg as it doesn't disturb classes, which I really don't see how it could. if he wants to bring his sexuality into it, it's his decision, and the school shouldn't keep him from doing it. about gay guys knowing everything..well, even if they don't, plenty act as if they do :D

Originally posted by WhammyBar
about gay guys knowing everything..well, even if they don't, plenty act as if they do :D

HEY....and to think I gave you flowers...:slap:

Originally posted by Travh20
its just another attention getter, "look at me, I am gay, I am important, look at me!" then lawyers will get involved and force everyone to acept the gay guy and let him plaster gay propaganda all over the place and expect everyone to celebrate and idolize him for his courage, its the same old thing as usual. force everyone to accept him or else, its part of the march to make homosexuality as wholesome as grandmas apple pie. if your not jumping for joy that this guy gets to put posters saying to vote for him becasue he likes sex with other men then you are wrong, and need to be adjusted.

Again - the same old tired line you always use in these type of issues.

I'm not sure why you are so scared of homosexuals. Homosexuality is real, there are a large number of respectable homosexuals in this world - no matter how much you or I may not relate or like that type thing - it doesn't change it - get used to it. I don't see any logic to suggest that it is not equally as wholesome as apple pie. It's a fact of life & these people are not dirty, tainted or evil.

But beyond that - the issue is not that the kid is trying to post gay propoganda around the school. The issue is he is running for election and therefore he has as much right as any other candidate to promote his message, whatever that message may be, with equal platform to every other student in the race. This is the issue. The school didn't like HIS message, so they censored him. They cannot tread on his rights - this is fundamental. If we were a country ruled by Christian majority censorship then we'd be in one hell of a mess, you may sleep well at night, but we'd still be in one hell of a mess.

He has equal rights - being gay doesn't change his rights to absolute equality. The school obviously thinks it does and they need to be pulled aside and corrected so their bigoted views can be removed from the equation.

Originally posted by WhammyBar
he has a right to do that, as lomg as it doesn't disturb classes, which I really don't see how it could. if he wants to bring his sexuality into it, it's his decision, and the school shouldn't keep him from doing it. about gay guys knowing everything..well, even if they don't, plenty act as if they do :D Why should sexuality play into this at all? Shouldnt the person who is best qualified to be class president get the job? Does having sex with someone of the same sex lead you to have any overwhelming qualifications for the job? Or is this just another example of anything a homosexual wants to do is fine and we are being bigoted if we dont allow him to express his sexuality.

When have I ever said I have any problem with gay people? I have none. i do on the other hand have a problem with the gay agenda. Yes, there is a gay agenda. While it is very popular to hide it behind the veil of civil rights, it is not a civil rights issue. No one should be givin special treatment because of who they have sex with. They are who they are becasue of who they sleep with. Why, I ask, is that such a big deal? why is that soemthing that should be paraded around? does it matter? Is a gay guy being told not to talk about his sexuality worse then a heterosexual being told not to talk about it in his campaign speech? you all fall for this every time. "its not about anyhting but this guys right to free speech". you never evr even contemplate how stupid it is, or how obvioulsly it is that this is exactly what it was supposed to do from the beginning. Doy uo actually think this guy thought he was going to win the election? e is a Al Sharpton, nothing more, using the election to advance his agenda, doing something he knows fullw ell will be frowned upon to gain attention.

Originally posted by HaVoK
Why should sexuality play into this at all? Shouldnt the person who is best qualified to be class president get the job? Does having sex with someone of the same sex lead you to have any overwhelming qualifications for the job? Or is this just another example of anything a homosexual wants to do is fine and we are being bigoted if we dont allow him to express his sexuality.

Homosexuality is not the issue here. The issue is equal rights.

If no students are allowed to post posters in the campaign - then he has no right to post his posters - that's equal.

If every other student is allowed to post posters, but not him because the school doesn't like his message, then his rights are being trodden on. The school is against homosexuality - that's fine, it's their right to have those views. What's not ok is for those views to lead them to a place where they feel they can remove his right to have the same access to campaigning as all the other students in the race. This is fundamental to the way the US system works. It cannot be scoffed at or marginalized as not important.

The validity or content of his message is neither here nor there - it's irrelevant to this issue. It's not an issue of whether running on a homosexual platform or being homosexual makes you qualified. The voters determine what defines qualification - not the school.

Originally posted by HaVoK
Why should sexuality play into this at all? Shouldnt the person who is best qualified to be class president get the job? Does having sex with someone of the same sex lead you to have any overwhelming qualifications for the job? Or is this just another example of anything a homosexual wants to do is fine and we are being bigoted if we dont allow him to express his sexuality.

it doesn't matter what he's posting about, it's his right to posting it that's important.

Trav, what the fuck is it with you and this "gay agenda"? what is the gay agenda? I'd really like to know, especially from someone who doesn't have any close gay freinds.

Vile: I wasn't talking about you. I could never be mean to anyone who gave me flowers. I was talking more about some of the guys I know in real life. there's really something to be said about the gay man as a witty commentator stereotype....

Originally posted by DrewM
Homosexuality is not the issue here. The issue is equal rights.

If no students are allowed to post posters in the campaign - then he has no right to post his posters - that's equal.

If every other student is allowed to post posters, but not him because the school doesn't like his message, then his rights are being trodden on. The school is against homosexuality - that's fine, it's their right to have those views. What's not ok is for those views to lead them to a place where they feel they can remove his right to have the same access to campaigning as all the other students in the race. This is fundamental to the way the US system works. It cannot be scoffed at or marginalized as not important.

The validity or content of his message is neither here nor there - it's irrelevant to this issue. It's not an issue of whether running on a homosexual platform or being homosexual makes you qualified. The voters determine what defines qualification - not the school. Ok....this is a high school we are talking about. And you are saying that sexuality SHOULD be an issue when voting on class president? In that case, i think some big titted blonde should run with the campaign promise of "blowjobs for all" if she wins. Since its ok to promote your sexuality. I mean, that is ok right?

the gay agenda is to make homosexuality as clean and wholesome as the wind driven snow, to teach our kids at an early age homosexual relationships and sex is as normal as mommy and daddy. to use the word marriage to spite the christians. no other way do gays want to be anyhting like christians, except for this one thing, and I think it is merely to spite them and show them who has the power. there is really no other reason not to get all the same rights and responsibilities of a marriage and call it something else. Whats next? are we to stop using homosexual as a word and refer to everyone as heterosexual? its all to Animal Farm like to me. we wake up in the morning and another rule painted on the barn has been changed in the night. I have nothing against homosexuals personally. I dont agree with their agenda, much the same as you dnt agree with mine. yet I am the asshole bigot, and you are merely standing up for civil rights.

it's really fine for anyone to campaign on whatever they want. unfortunately for your argument, the blowjobs thing might be just slightly disruptive to class, ehich gives the school a good reason to stop it.

Originally posted by Travh20
the gay agenda is to make homosexuality as clean and wholesome as the wind driven snow, to teach our kids at an early age homosexual relationships and sex is as normal as mommy and daddy.

Trav honestly, your victorian attitudes towards sex will be your undoing. Explain to me please how homosexual sex is not as clean and wholesome as heterosexual sex, and while you're at it, maybe you could tell me why it's a bad thing to teach kids not to hate people because they're gay.

to use the word marriage to spite the christians. no other way do gays want to be anyhting like christians, except for this one thing, and I think it is merely to spite them and show them who has the power. there is really no other reason not to get all the same rights and responsibilities of a marriage and call it something else.

Do you have a persecution complex? The reasons why gays want to be able to use the word marriage have been explained to you many, many, times. You just refuse to believe it because you would rather feel victimized by gay people than understand them.


Whats next? are we to stop using homosexual as a word and refer to everyone as heterosexual?

I wouldn't suggest that Trav, then nobody would know if you were gay or not...

I have nothing against homosexuals personally.

You just don't like them as a group.

I dont agree with their agenda, much the same as you dnt agree with mine. yet I am the asshole bigot, and you are merely standing up for civil rights.

If you are what you claim to be, it's because you think gays should not have the same rights that you enjoy, or maybe the same rights but with different names, or maybe they should just shut up and go away. Yes Trav, when you take the position that other people shouldn't have the same rights as you because you have some strange feeling of correctness or righteousness, that makes you a bigot. If someone else believes that all people should be treated equally they are standing up for civil rights. The mere fact that you disagree with each other in equal measure does not lend equal validity to both arguments.

Originally posted by HaVoK
Ok....this is a high school we are talking about. And you are saying that sexuality SHOULD be an issue when voting on class president? In that case, i think some big titted blonde should run with the campaign promise of "blowjobs for all" if she wins. Since its ok to promote your sexuality. I mean, that is ok right?

No - I'm not saying that. How do you get that from my post? :slap:

Read the part where I say It's not about homosexuality - it's about being treated equally.

Trav - In no place either in fact or in this thread did anybody suggest that this kid should get special treatment. That is the whole point - right now he IS getting special treatment and that is wrong. He should get the SAME treatment as every other student in the race.

Lets break it down so the homophobes can get beyond the homo issue and focus on the real issue. Switch out the fact that the kid is running on a gay platform and imagine that he was running on a platform of being Jewish. If the school tried to stop his posters because they didn't like Jews then it would be clear cut. The problem with this issue is as soon as the word 'Gay' comes into it - then the bigots are up in arms about 'The Gay Agenda' and all that crap - when it's a simple issue. Treat people equally - beyond it being the LAW, it's the right thing to do in America. If you don't like that - check the flights to China and move out there.

Originally posted by Travh20
the gay agenda is to make homosexuality as clean and wholesome as the wind driven snow, to teach our kids at an early age homosexual relationships and sex is as normal as mommy and daddy. to use the word marriage to spite the christians. no other way do gays want to be anyhting like christians, except for this one thing, and I think it is merely to spite them and show them who has the power. there is really no other reason not to get all the same rights and responsibilities of a marriage and call it something else. Whats next? are we to stop using homosexual as a word and refer to everyone as heterosexual? its all to Animal Farm like to me. we wake up in the morning and another rule painted on the barn has been changed in the night. I have nothing against homosexuals personally. I dont agree with their agenda, much the same as you dnt agree with mine. yet I am the asshole bigot, and you are merely standing up for civil rights.

Trav - get used to it - Homosexuality is normal. Look around you and open your eyes.

You are a bigot if you think that your views on Homosexuality allows you to give these people less rights. It's not an issue of simple difference of opinion - its an issue of law. You are plain wrong - yet your beliefs will never allow you to understand what the law means.

Trav, get over it, homosexuality exists, and it is normal. if you don't like the idea of giving everyone equal rights you should go move to another country becasue America does not finction upon bigotry.

LOL, homosexuality is normal. Tell me, why do women and men have different parts? male parts are not designed to go together, period. if homosexuality is normal its because we decided to make it so. If you walked out your door and saw 2 male horses engaging in anal sex would you think that normal?

also I am not saying to give this kid special treatment, but I do know that if a guy ran a poster saying "heterosexuals know everything" it would be attacked as implying gays arent as smart as heterosexuals, you can not deny that. Free speech doesnt have to be brought into everything, sometimes common sense still applies in this country believe it or not, and claiming somehow being homosexual is basis enough to be elected is not a valid platform, the same as claiming that becasue you are not gay wouldt be a platform. sometimes frree speech is brought up in weird ways, this is one of them. The school runs the election, they can say what is appropriate or not, they dont need the gay lobby and their lawyers looking over their shoulder all the time searching for anything they can find to get their names in the paper.

I find it kind of strange that anyone would actually want to debate whether or not sexuality has a place in a high school election. Common sense tells you it doesnt. I just think gays are so insecure that they feel the need to defend anyone who says they are gay, no matter the cause.

If this dude is the most qualified, he should get the position based on merit alone. The fact that he finds members of the same sex to his liking really has NOTHING AT ALL to do with whether or not he deserves this position. And like Trav said. If a heterosexual were running against the homosexual and made posters proclaiming that "Heterosexuals know everything" or "Heterosexuals are Smarter", then you would have everyone pitching a bitch about it. Dont even try to deny it. We have a few gay crusaders here at Allforums who would do it in a heartbeat. You know who you are.

Originally posted by HaVoK
I find it kind of strange that anyone would actually want to debate whether or not sexuality has a place in a high school election.

I find it equally as strange that you think anybody is debating the place of sexuality in a high school election. Strange because it has nothing to do with that, and nobody has suggested that it does. Re-read past posts to learn what the issue is about.

but I do know that if a guy ran a poster saying "heterosexuals know everything" it would be attacked as implying gays arent as smart as heterosexuals, you can not deny that.

Trav - I can easily deny that. If he ran a poster saying 'heterosexuals know everything' then it would be fine by me. You keep missing the issue over and over - they took down his poster because their religious beliefs, like yours, believe that homosexuality is a sin and must be suppressed. They made his campaign unequal to the other students. This is the issue.

You are entitled to your views that homosexuality is abnornal (no doubt you think the earth is flat also) - but the clear light of reality is not on your side. There are millions of homosexuals - clearly it is perfectly normal, and as for the annimal kingdom - homosexual activity is very normal in annimals - I guess they are sinners too.

Poor Christians - gotta love em :rolleyes:

some thoughts...

first off Trav, there may be a small reason for him to want to shout it off the rooftops he is gay.....they have been forever stifled, hidden, buried and shamed.........I'd want to yell it too...."I'm gay. discuss it amongst yourselves....now lets move on...."

secondly I don't think his sexuality is his Agenda, he is using it to pull people in and please don't try and tell me this hasn't been done before.....you see it everywhere......"see my big round perky boobs......now have a shooter, buy this car, drink milk etc...".......his sexuality is not the ends it is the means...

now maybe all this brouhaha will win him the election.....then we will see where he goes with the "gay agenda"

Originally posted by DrewM
I find it equally as strange that you think anybody is debating the place of sexuality in a high school election. Strange because it has nothing to do with that, and nobody has suggested that it does. Re-read past posts to learn what the issue is about.
I suggest you reread what the entire article is about. Some homosexual wants to run for class president and his posters say "Gay Guys Know Everything" and "Queer Guy For Hunt High". What the fuck do you think he is promoting? He is promoting his sexuality. And for some reason people feel it is his "right" to do this in a high school environment.


Poor Christians - gotta love em :rolleyes: You keep making this a religious issue when its a social issue. I guess you will take any shot you can to bash christians.

Originally posted by HaVoK
I suggest you reread what the entire article is about. Some homosexual wants to run for class president and his posters say "Gay Guys Know Everything" and "Queer Guy For Hunt High". What the fuck do you think he is promoting? He is promoting his sexuality. And for some reason people feel it is his "right" to do this in a high school environment.

I give up. I can't help it you cannot see what the actual issue is. :rolleyes: You have about the most simplistic read on the issue as humanly possible.

Originally posted by HaVoK
Some homosexual wants to run for class president and his posters say "Gay Guys Know Everything" and "Queer Guy For Hunt High". What the fuck do you think he is promoting? He is promoting his sexuality.


I think he is promoting the fact that he is running for class president. He is using his sexuality as an attention getter, nothing more. The issue isn't whether or not being gay is good, bad, right, or wrong. The issue is whether the school should have censored his posters. That makes the issue one of free speech, not gay rights.

It is interesting to note that other posters put up by other candidates were left undisturbed. An exerpt from an article:

Other students' campaign posters referencing popular media catchphrases - one that reads "What can Brown do for you?" and another stating, "It's Miller Time!" - were left undisturbed by the school.

Tell me HaVok, was the poster that said "It's Miller Time!" promoting beer?

Article:
http://web.morons.org/article.jsp?sectionid=9&id=4910

Originally posted by DrewM
I give up. I can't help it you cannot see what the actual issue is. :rolleyes: You have about the most simplistic read on the issue as humanly possible. Well excuse the hell out of me for seeing things in black and white. Thats most the probelm with this country anyway. Too much freaking grey. And you can take your condescending attitude and shove it where the sun wont shine. :upyours:

Read Pagans post - he explains it (again).

Sorry that you don't like the fact that life is not black & white.

Originally posted by Vilepagan
I think he is promoting the fact that he is running for class president. He is using his sexuality as an attention getter, nothing more. The issue isn't whether or not being gay is good, bad, right, or wrong. The issue is whether the school should have censored his posters. That makes the issue one of free speech, not gay rights.

It is interesting to note that other posters put up by other candidates were left undisturbed. An exerpt from an article:


Tell me HaVok, was the poster that said "It's Miller Time!" promoting beer?

Article:
http://web.morons.org/article.jsp?sectionid=9&id=4910 "It's Miller Time" would never have been allowed as a slogan when i went to school. Using some slick beer promotion should also not have a place in our schools with so much teenage drunken driving going on. It wasnt promoting beer but it was using a catchy phrase that was inappropriate for High School. Damn i am living in the wrong century if i have to explain this to people. Its just plain wrong.

Im not arguing gay rights here Vile. If a heterosexual had made a poster stating anything about their sexual preferences, i would find that equally offensive and not acceptable. This shouldnt be a gay rights issue here, rather what are we gonna let be acceptable for our children to use in a high school environment.

Originally posted by HaVoK
"It's Miller Time" would never have been allowed as a slogan when i went to school. Using some slick beer promotion should also not have a place in our schools with so much teenage drunken driving going on. It wasnt promoting beer but it was using a catchy phrase that was inappropriate for High School. Damn i am living in the wrong century if i have to explain this to people. Its just plain wrong.

Im not arguing gay rights here Vile. If a heterosexual had made a poster stating anything about their sexual preferences, i would find that equally offensive and not acceptable. This shouldnt be a gay rights issue here, rather what are we gonna let be acceptable for our children to use in a high school environment.

Actually HaVok I tend to agree with you about the beer poster, you really don't need to explain to me why it might not be appropriate in high school. It still leaves the question of why the gay poster was taken down and not the beer poster. If you read the article I linked to, it says that the principal in the school took down the poster without any explanation as to why he took it down. This leads me to believe he was not doing it to enforce some policy even an undefined one, or he would have stated his reasons. I believe he took the poster down because he found it to be personally offensive, and that's wrong.

Wow! In the heat of a stressed out moment, I ALWAYS say - "It's Miller Time" though I really prefer Rolling Rock or Corona.

Anyway, the "Miller" in this slogan would undoubtedly be due to the candidate's last name. Does this slogan develop a mental picture of Mr. Miller sucking back on a brown bottle of beer "getting the job done"...or does it develop a picture of Mr. Miller sitting behind a desk with glasses perched on his nose, pencil behind his ear getting his work done?

In any event...I believe (like Havok) that if the posters screamed another's heterosexuality i.e. big titted blonde will give blowjobs they would most definitely be torn down and ridiculed, etc. Whammy says: the blowjobs thing might be just slightly disruptive to class, ehich gives the school a good reason to stop it. Why would it be disruptive? Because she was actually giving blowjobs during class? OR, because of the IMAGE of the blowjob that envelops your mind?

I really don't believe it's a civil rights issue. I believe it's the school's way of maintaining control over a disruptive situation, which is a good thing. If sexuality isn't his agenda...then what is? Is he going to reduce school lunches? Make the yearbooks cheaper? Create after school programs? WHO would have any clue what his agenda is? The posters state only that he is gay.

If my poster stated that I had frequent sex, would that make me a better candidate? My poster would be ripped down. (As it should, because my hubby works 2nd and we're never home together!!)

Oh, and Trav...the 2 horses having anal sex - what a mental picture THAT was. I don't think it's the "norm", but I hear that monkeys do it all the time. :D

Originally posted by Travh20
if homosexuality is normal its because we decided to make it so. If you walked out your door and saw 2 male horses engaging in anal sex would you think that normal?

Anectodal story time. One day, I walked out into my backyard to find the next door neighbor's 2 male cats. One was chasing the other all around the fenced in yard. Finally, he caught him, they scrambled a bit while the one chasing was getting a good grip on the other's neck. Then, the chaser proceded to rape the chasee. Two males. Yes, homosexuality is "normal", and it does happen in nature.

In my town, if I walked out my door and saw two horses PERIOD, I'd find that strange.

Originally posted by Travh20
LOL, homosexuality is normal. Tell me, why do women and men have different parts? male parts are not designed to go together, period. if homosexuality is normal its because we decided to make it so.

Homosexuality is not "normal" according to most people because society says so. However, last time I checked, society (and science) isn't even coming close to the hows and whys of homosexuality (for example, it's still undecided whether homosexuality is caused by a normal function of genes or if it's a genetic mutation). If we don't have full knowledge of something, who is to say what's right and wrong?

Originally posted by Travh20
f you walked out your door and saw 2 male horses engaging in anal sex would you think that normal?

Considering that animals function on basic, biological instincts which guide their behavior to meet different biological/physiological drives and that animals don't live their lives by using complex thought processes to reach personal goals/desires, I'd have to say that no, I wouldn't think it was abnormal. Homosexuality occurs in nature, between the Earth's various animals species. It's uncommon, but it's not unknown. I don't think people more educated on homosexuality would find that type of sexual activity abnormal.

Originally posted by HaVoK
Well excuse the hell out of me for seeing things in black and white. Thats most the probelm with this country anyway. Too much freaking grey.

Yanno... for YEARS now, I've felt that the problem with this country is that too many see only in black and white. They can't seem to get the balance in the middle ground.

Take a typical black/white .jpg photo into one of those programs to alter it. Sharpen the contrast so there is only black and white, and see how that picture is distorted. That's what's happening to issues when put in the hands of those who only deal with black and white.

It's typical in a political race for the candidates to describe who they are. A message about drinking beer is nothing about the candidate. Given that the candidate is gay - it is entirely appropriate for them to make posters about the fact that they are gay. Saying you are gay in no way means he is discussing sex. Who has the problem whenever gay is mentioned the thought process leads to one thing - gay sex?

The school needs a set of clear rules and needs to enforce them equally amongst the candidates - not one rule for one and one rule for another based on the personal whims and bias of the principle.

The ACLU got involved because this is an issue of civil rights. It just so happens that gay issues are on the current leading edge of civil rights abuses. That is the reason why they are involved - not to promote the fantasy gay agenda some people are so scared to death of.

Originally posted by saycricket

In any event...I believe (like Havok) that if the posters screamed another's heterosexuality i.e. big titted blonde will give blowjobs they would most definitely be torn down and ridiculed, etc. Why would it be disruptive? Because she was actually giving blowjobs during class? OR, because of the IMAGE of the blowjob that envelops your mind?

Why is it that when you hear the word "gay" you think of sex acts? When I hear the word heterosexual I don't automatically picture people screwing. There is a big difference between someone saying "I'm gay" and someone offering sex.

I really don't believe it's a civil rights issue. I believe it's the school's way of maintaining control over a disruptive situation, which is a good thing. If sexuality isn't his agenda...then what is? Is he going to reduce school lunches? Make the yearbooks cheaper? Create after school programs? WHO would have any clue what his agenda is? The posters state only that he is gay.

If my poster stated that I had frequent sex, would that make me a better candidate? My poster would be ripped down. (As it should, because my hubby works 2nd and we're never home together!!)

If the issue was about maintaining order and discipline why were the "Miller Time" posters not removed?

Again, his posters did not mention "sex" at all. He merely stated he was gay. I really don't think he should be punished because some people cannot see the word "gay" without picturing two guys boning each other.

Originally posted by Vilepagan
Why is it that when you hear the word "gay" you think of sex acts? When I hear the word heterosexual I don't automatically picture people screwing. There is a big difference between someone saying "I'm gay" and someone offering sex.
Because the word "homosexual" tells everyone what type of SEX a person likes. Hence the word "sex" is written within it. Gay is another word for homoSEXual . Dont be coy vile.

The school district did not prevent him from making and hanging posters, the simply removed the ones that they deemed inapropriate and distractive to the other students. I do not think that we should be the judges about what is distracting and what is not distracting in a certain school or school district. He is not being discriminated against because he is gay, he is being told that he cannot use his sexuality to run on as it poses as distraction to other students.

I could careless if he is gay or not. If this guy is the right person for the job than he should not be elected. Quite frankly I do not even see how being gay gives you any qualifications for or against being a student body president. If it did one could argue that the school is in the wrong...but since it has no bearing whatsoever it is merely an attention getter and a distraction and something the school has every right to take down.

Shit- Pagan, I'm sorry! That isn't what I meant at all. I don't mean to say that when I hear or see the word gay that ALL I can envision is two guys "boning" each other. BUT, I'm not going to deny that I DON'T envision it either. And I'm not going to say that it totally grosses me out. However, it's your thing, not mine.

BUT, what I meant, and what I should have said, was WHY did whammy think having a "big titted blonde will give blowjobs" on the poster would be disruptive to class? Because of the actual ACT, or the males/females THINKING (and thereby "chatting") about the act?

WHY did the "It's Miller Time" create controversy for you? Obviously because of the "beer" reference. BUT, because the candidate's name was "Miller", was that the reason it was left up?

I'm in no way saying that this guy doesn't deserve to speak his mind. However, I just don't believe that this type of "speech" should be allowed in the school hallways. Neither homosexual nor heterosexual references should be made on a campaign poster (or any school poster for that matter). What is good for one, should be good for all...IMO.

I'm sorry if I offended you!! :flowers:

Originally posted by saycricket
Shit- Pagan, I'm sorry! That isn't what I meant at all. I don't mean to say that when I hear or see the word gay that ALL I can envision is two guys "boning" each other. BUT, I'm not going to deny that I DON'T envision it either. And I'm not going to say that it totally grosses me out. However, it's your thing, not mine.

BUT, what I meant, and what I should have said, was WHY did whammy think having a "big titted blonde will give blowjobs" on the poster would be disruptive to class? Because of the actual ACT, or the males/females THINKING (and thereby "chatting") about the act?

WHY did the "It's Miller Time" create controversy for you? Obviously because of the "beer" reference. BUT, because the candidate's name was "Miller", was that the reason it was left up?

I'm in no way saying that this guy doesn't deserve to speak his mind. However, I just don't believe that this type of "speech" should be allowed in the school hallways. Neither homosexual nor heterosexual references should be made on a campaign poster (or any school poster for that matter). What is good for one, should be good for all...IMO.

I'm sorry if I offended you!! :flowers:

You didn't offend me saycricket, and I'm sorry if I seemed offended. I still don't see how saying "I'm gay" can be considered offensive, or even talking about sex. It's a simple declaration about who he is. :flowers:

Originally posted by The Republican
The school district did not prevent him from making and hanging posters, the simply removed the ones that they deemed inapropriate and distractive to the other students.

Actually we don't know why the posters were removed because the principal has refused to explain his reasons for doing so.

I do not think that we should be the judges about what is distracting and what is not distracting in a certain school or school district. He is not being discriminated against because he is gay, he is being told that he cannot use his sexuality to run on as it poses as distraction to other students.

Again, he was told nothing at all about what was right or wrong with his posters, they were just removed.

Quite frankly I do not even see how being gay gives you any qualifications for or against being a student body president. If it did one could argue that the school is in the wrong...but since it has no bearing whatsoever it is merely an attention getter and a distraction and something the school has every right to take down.

Please...campaign posters typically do not discuss or promote a candidate's qualifications for office, they are designed to get your attention and say 'Vote for me"...did the "Miller Time" posters pose less of a "distraction" hazard?

If the principal had a good reason for removing the posters, why did he not tell anyone what that reason is? How are the students supposed to learn what is appropriate or not if he won't say why they were removed?

Oh...welcome to Allforums :flowers:

Thanks for the welcome Pagan. :D

I could have sworn on O'Reilly last night the school district had said the posters were moved for the reasons I stated. Of course they nor the ACLU would appear on the Factor so I could be mistaken. This was from the civil rights lawyer Bill had on last night.

and straight is another word for heteroSEXual. I certainly don't automatically think of sex everytime I hear either of those words.

Originally posted by WhammyBar
and straight is another word for heteroSEXual. I certainly don't automatically think of sex everytime I hear either of those words. So? The meaning of the word is simple. It describes SEXual preference. So when you say someone is "gay" you are describing what type of sex they prefer. I really dont care what you, personally, think of everytime you hear the word. The meaning is clear.

Originally posted by HaVoK
So? The meaning of the word is simple. It describes SEXual preference. So when you say someone is "gay" you are describing what type of sex they prefer. I really dont care what you, personally, think of everytime you hear the word. The meaning is clear.

By saying "I'm gay" I'm making a statement about who I am, not what type of sex I prefer. Can you tell me what type of sex I prefer, or can you only be sure of the gender of the people I prefer to have sex with?

Originally posted by Vilepagan
By saying "I'm gay" I'm making a statement about who I am, not what type of sex I prefer. Can you tell me what type of sex I prefer, or can you only be sure of the gender of the people I prefer to have sex with?

Pagan,

I believe the point that was being made was that a gay person prefers sex with a person of the same gender which is a different type of sex than a straight person has with a person of the opposite gender.

Originally posted by HaVoK
So? The meaning of the word is simple. It describes SEXual preference. So when you say someone is "gay" you are describing what type of sex they prefer. I really dont care what you, personally, think of everytime you hear the word. The meaning is clear.

Uh, no, you are describing the type of person they are attracted to. Which could eventually lead to sex, but doesn't always. Heterosexual is someone ATTRACTED to the opposite sex. A heterosexual can be a virgin. So can a homosexual.

Originally posted by The Republican
Pagan,

I believe the point that was being made was that a gay person prefers sex with a person of the same gender which is a different type of sex than a straight person has with a person of the opposite gender.

Perhaps that was the point he was trying to make but it would still not neccessarily be true. Straight people engage in the same sex acts that gay people do with one exception only, and P Marie made an excellent point as well, in that a person of either preference could be a virgin, or I might add, completely abstinent.

The point I'm making here is that "gay" is who I am, not what I do. Too often that distinction is blurred by people who can't see beyond the sex act itself. Are you as a person defined by the sex acts that you participate in? Gays are not either.

Again, his posters did not mention "sex" at all. He merely stated he was gay. I really don't think he should be punished because some people cannot see the word "gay" without picturing two guys boning each other.

i know I don't! When I see "gay" referring to males I envision really great shoes and good skin care products....;)



also.....if this boy has been open about his gayness since the ninth grade.......everybody is ALREADY talking about it.......so the school thinks that him declaring it in writing is distracting aren't they really saying that HIM BEING OPENLY GAY is distracting? Maybe they are removing his posters because they very well can't remove HIM as the distraction......what the hell kind of message is that???

Originally posted by Vilepagan
Perhaps that was the point he was trying to make but it would still not neccessarily be true. Straight people engage in the same sex acts that gay people do with one exception only, and P Marie made an excellent point as well, in that a person of either preference could be a virgin, or I might add, completely abstinent.

The point I'm making here is that "gay" is who I am, not what I do. Too often that distinction is blurred by people who can't see beyond the sex act itself. Are you as a person defined by the sex acts that you participate in? Gays are not either.

Without getting into graphic detail I do not engage in the same sex acts with my wife as I would a man if I were gay. Gay/lesbian sex is completely different from straight sex from the physical act themselves to the fact that you can only naturally conceive a child through straight sex. I will agree that both straight and gay persons can be virgins, however you can still be intimate with a person and remain a virgin.

I do agree that being gay is not defined by your acts though. My wife's cousin is gay and he has an ex-wife and three kids. I do not think that he woke up one day and said "Hey I'm going to be gay." It was probably something he dealt with for a long time internally before he made it known externally.

Originally posted by Vilepagan

The point I'm making here is that "gay" is who I am, not what I do. Too often that distinction is blurred by people who can't see beyond the sex act itself. Are you as a person defined by the sex acts that you participate in? Gays are not either. Well no matter how much PC spin you put to the word "gay" when used to refer to homosexuals, the meaning points to what type person you are attracted to (for sex). Like it or not. This must be some homosexual key word or something that you want to change the meaning of so it will be accepted by a larger percentage of the population. Heterosexual refers to what type person you are attracted to (for sex).

Why does it seem that homosexuals will not be satisfied being accepted for who they are unless heterosexuals "celebrate" their right to be homosexuals? Just face it, gays cannot control other people's perceptions of their sexual deviance. The more its forced upon people, the more resistant people become to the idea. If homosexuality were so wholesome and natural, no one would have to go to such great lengths to try to convince/coerce people to think it is.

Originally posted by The Republican
Without getting into graphic detail I do not engage in the same sex acts with my wife as I would a man if I were gay. Gay/lesbian sex is completely different from straight sex from the physical act themselves to the fact that you can only naturally conceive a child through straight sex.

Again, when it comes to the different sex acts available to gays and straights, there is only one sex act that gays cannot engage in with their partners, while straights have the same options available to them that gays do. I'm not sure why you say that you don't engage in the same acts with your wife that you would if you had sex with another man, because that option is certainly open to you (assuming your wife is amenable to the idea ;-). At any rate the choice of which acts you participate in and which ones you don't, are not what defines you as a heterosexual. You are a heterosexual because of who you are attracted to, not because of what acts you perform.

The fact that you can conceive children with your partner and I cannot with mine, is completely irrelevant to the question, unless you believe that sex always has to result in the conception of a child.


I do agree that being gay is not defined by your acts though. My wife's cousin is gay and he has an ex-wife and three kids. I do not think that he woke up one day and said "Hey I'm going to be gay." It was probably something he dealt with for a long time internally before he made it known externally.

I'm sorry to hear about your cousin, but unfortunately that's one of the negative aspects of our society's attitudes about homosexuality.

Pagan, I was only saying that there are more than one sex act that seperates gays from straights. However I do think that ations help define who a person is. For example is a person a thief because they are attracted by the idea of stealing or only a thief after they have stolen something? Is a person a murderer because they think about killing another or only a murderer after they have committed the act? When do we get to apply the labels to a person and should we label them at all?

As for my wife's cousin there is nothing you should feel sorry for. He is a great person with a great family, and while I did not know them when things changed in their lives they seem to be very happy, content and accepting of their situation now.

Originally posted by HaVoK
Well no matter how much PC spin you put to the word "gay" when used to refer to homosexuals, the meaning points to what type person you are attracted to (for sex). Like it or not. This must be some homosexual key word or something that you want to change the meaning of so it will be accepted by a larger percentage of the population. Heterosexual refers to what type person you are attracted to (for sex).

Correct, it describes who I am attracted to, not what sex acts I indulge in. Could you please send me a list of those homosexual "key words"? I lost mine in a mad crush to get Cher's autograph when she appeared at my last "gay agenda" meeting. ;-)

Why does it seem that homosexuals will not be satisfied being accepted for who they are unless heterosexuals "celebrate" their right to be homosexuals?

I'm sorry HaVok, but you will never hear a gay person tell a straight person that the straight person should celebrate our right to be gay. All we want is for you to acknowledge our right to be gay, and for us to celebrate our rights.

Just face it, gays cannot control other people's perceptions of their sexual deviance. The more its forced upon people, the more resistant people become to the idea. If homosexuality were so wholesome and natural, no one would have to go to such great lengths to try to convince/coerce people to think it is.

No we can't control how you think about us, but we can attempt to change your perceptions through education, dialouge and political activism.

The only reason you believe homosexuality is unwholesome and unnatural is because that's what you have been taught to believe. You were not born with any preconceptions on the subject at all. This the reason that we "go to such great lengths", because there are years of brainwashing to overcome.

I'd like to address the question of "wholesomeness". Why do you consider gay sex to be unwholesome?

I'm no expert on sex acts, (despite years of trying), but as I said in previous posts, there is only one sex act that straight people engage in that gays do not, namely "traditional" sexual intercourse. Unless you consider that the only "wholesome" sex act, then straight people have just as much unwholesome sex as gays do.

Originally posted by The Republican
For example is a person a thief because they are attracted by the idea of stealing or only a thief after they have stolen something? Is a person a murderer because they think about killing another or only a murderer after they have committed the act?

Can I only be called a heterosexual when I am sexually active? I think the difference is, I prefer, or don't mind, being called a heterosexual, and I consider myself one all the time. Being called a thief is negative. People don't usually choose to call themselves thieves.

Hmm.. Another analogy.. Are you only a Christian when you are in Church or engaged in Christian acts?

When do we get to apply the labels to a person and should we label them at all?

I'd say, if a person has labeled himself, it's safe to use that label on him. Or if they've had that label bestowed in a court of law (in the case of the thief).

Originally posted by P Marie C
Anectodal story time. One day, I walked out into my backyard to find the next door neighbor's 2 male cats. One was chasing the other all around the fenced in yard. Finally, he caught him, they scrambled a bit while the one chasing was getting a good grip on the other's neck. Then, the chaser proceded to rape the chasee. Two males. Yes, homosexuality is "normal", and it does happen in nature.

In my town, if I walked out my door and saw two horses PERIOD, I'd find that strange.

LOL, thats funny. first, how do you know the cats were both male? cats dont exactly have giant gonads hanging down like dogs. Secondly, you clearly desribed a rape. on ewas running from the other, and the "gay" cat forced the other cat to submit. the ohter cat didnt stop and bend over. LOL, WTF are we even talking about? Gay cats, LMAO :rolleyes:

Hyenas also exhibit gay behavior. Dogs, too.

LOL, thats funny. first, how do you know the cats were both male? cats dont exactly have giant gonads hanging down like dogs. Secondly, you clearly desribed a rape. on ewas running from the other, and the "gay" cat forced the other cat to submit. the ohter cat didnt stop and bend over. LOL, WTF are we even talking about? Gay cats, LMAO

I have seen huuuuuge cat gonads......OT WTH.....we had this cat he lived in the barn and he was orange and he had the biggest fuzziest pills you ever saw....I swear you could see them from a mile away!!!! we called him barnballs....:D

maybe he was abnormal but Everyone noticed them hell you couldn't miss em!

Originally posted by Travh20
LOL, thats funny. first, how do you know the cats were both male?
Because, as I said, they were the next-door neighbor's cats. Both of them. Having lived next to them for several years, I know them. They were male.

Secondly, you clearly desribed a rape. on ewas running from the other, and the "gay" cat forced the other cat to submit. the ohter cat didnt stop and bend over.
Uh, yea, and I said it was a rape. So? Does it being a rape instead of consentual prove anything to one side or the other of this discussion? No.


LOL, WTF are we even talking about? Gay cats, LMAO :rolleyes:
It was implied that homosexuality is not "normal", in that it does not happen in nature. I know otherwise, and gave a clear example.

Correct, it describes who I am attracted to, not what sex acts I indulge in. Could you please send me a list of those homosexual "key words"? I lost mine in a mad crush to get Cher's autograph when she appeared at my last "gay agenda" meeting. ;-) LMAO!! ::laughing hysterically::

Raping Gay Cats!! LOL!! This is killing me!! A new comic book series!! LOL!!

No, no...wait...even better:
"Tonight on REAL TV - Terror in the backyard!
You won't believe what we show you when pets attack!
Raping Gay Cats! Are your pets safe?
Be sure to tune in at 8:00 EST." :corn:

A lot of things aren't normal.

Government
Laws
Just to name a few

So to say homosexuality isn't normal, is just another way to use propaganda against homosexuals. :D

Originally posted by Liberal 4 Life
A lot of things aren't normal.

Government
Laws
Just to name a few

So to say homosexuality isn't normal, is just another way to use propaganda against homosexuals. :D
I guess it is time to make some people mad.
I don't care what this kid put in his posters, the school should have just stayed out of it. I believe that it was a ploy to use after a loss but that is speculation.
I also don't care if a person is homosexual or not, what a person does in there bedroom with a CONSENTING ADULT is none of anyones business. But I have to argue with Liberal.

First of all what is normal? 50.000000000001 of the population, so if the that portion of the population was homosexual then it would be normal. I dont see how laws or the government can be not normal? And saying homosexuality is not normal would be correct, by the definition. Now if it is meant to say wrong then that is a bigots statement.
I have no right to decide if someones behavior is wrong until a law has been broken and I am seated on that jury.

Well, this is a touchy issue but I dont like it put in front of me like a pill to take in daily. we have bigger issues. i also have other issues in this, that are not for a fourm. but, keep it to yourself and who cares what ya do. just dont show me, unless i ask to watch!

Originally posted by honestyhurts
Well, this is a touchy issue but I dont like it put in front of me like a pill to take in daily. we have bigger issues. i also have other issues in this, that are not for a fourm. but, keep it to yourself and who cares what ya do. just dont show me, unless i ask to watch!

Uh.... okaaay.... May I ask, then, what you're doing here, replying to a thread clearly marked "Gay Student Campaign"? Ya don't like the pill, don't open the bottle with the warning label! Go open other threads with titles showing those bigger issues you crave. I'd say that by opening this thread, you asked to watch. ;)