The palestinians have vowed "100 unique reprisals" for the "assasination" of another hamas terrorist leader. We are still waiting for the gates of hell to be unleashed from the last hamas terrorist leader to get taken down. They now try to pin the blame of the killing on the US. these guys are going down in flames faster then an Iraqi MIG in the no fly zone

STORY (http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040418/D821EFUO0.html)

Hammas is an organization and by destroying their leadership they will be stunted. The new leader proclaimed Hammas would attack isreal - so they took him out.

I see no difference between any leader of Hammas and Bin Laden - if we killed him we would be more than happy.

Of course, it may well inflame tensions, which is what most of the world is saying, but I don't see what choice Isreal have.

It always seems that Isreal is 'crossing the red line' yet the palenstinans never seem to be crossing any red line - even when they send in kids strapped with bombs to kill innocents. Strange double standard it seems.

it's not the Palestinians, it's the terrorists. not all palestinians are terrorists. get that through your thick skulls, both of you.

I dont see any palestinians protesting against the suicide bombings

do you honestly beleive all palestinians are terrorists?

It always seems that Isreal is 'crossing the red line' yet the palenstinans never seem to be crossing any red line - even when they send in kids strapped with bombs to kill innocents. Strange double standard it seems.
How about for the fact that for every one Israeli killed, three Palestanians are killed.
And Israeli military taking a sniper shot at a peace worker from the US. Bulldozing houses... They just have to push a button and a missle can shoot. Terrorists don't have that kind of military might, they have to use different tactics. Both tactics are evil, but they are both valid ones for the war at hand.

Originally posted by Blibblob
[b]Isrealian


hehe. Israelian. it's Israeli. hehehe.

Er... -an. It never existed. And I got my dipthong wrong, dammit!

No, I dont htink all palestinians are terrorists. but their silence on the suicide bombings is deafaning. only in countries ruled by dictators do the citizens not speak out agaisnt attrocities. no matter how you slice it, delibretly targeting civilians wit suicide bombing inbuses and in pizza parlors is wrong. I dont buy into bliblobs theory that that is the only way they have to fight. if they really wanted to fight they would be targeting the israeli military in the occupied cities, not civilians in cities no where near the occupied zones.

Oh, but they target political leaders. Why target the grunt military when you can take out the leaders? Both sides kill civilians.

Trav, once again, I don't think there is anything right about terrorism, I lived with it, and I'm sure I hate it much more than you possibly could. at the same time, I'm not blinded by that hatred, and I can see that not all palestininas are terrorists. I don't know why they don't stand up against it publicly, but not doing it doesn't make them terrorists. I think that there shoul be a Palestinian state, but I don't think terrorism should be used to get it. also, there isn't really a Palestinian government.

Why is it that I keep thinking that the world secretly hopes Israel will die a quiet death so the Palestinians can be happy?

I'm sorry, but Israel gives more rights to women and more rights to Muslims (more rights to everyone for that matter) than the Palestinians would ever be capable of doing. When I see one side that has an established democracy that is trying to live in peace, and another side that is strapping bombs to children, I tend to go with the side that is an open democracy.

As for that crap that not every Palestinian is a terrorist is concerned, the Germans murdered some 11 million people during the second world war, I'm willing to believe that not all Germans were Nazis, but they all have been tarred with the same brush, and rightly so. The same thing with Palestinians. PALESTINIANS are big believers in terrorism, PALESTINIANS are the ones strapping bombs to young people to go and kill indescriminately, it's the PALESTINIANS who have threatened some 100 "unique reprisals" so it's the PALISTINIANS who have been tarred with the brush of terrorism. If the Palestinians are really willing to negotiate peace, they must get rid of the tarred brush of terrorism. Not something that is easy to accomplish.

Well it seems that the Isreali policy of killing terrorists is working. No suprise there - even if the bleeding hearts get weak at the knees by any tough action.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1195566,00.html

Not mentioned in that article is also Hammas now saying they will keep their leaders a secret - big win for Isreal - how can an organization that deals in the currency of death and whipping up the frenzy of uneducated poor people have much if their leaders have to be a secret? - They become nothing but a weak joke.

0 out 10 for Hammas, 10 out of 10 for Isreal. They will find out who the next leader is (from all the Palestinians who cry for Hammas by day and cry to Shin Bet at night) - and then they should systematically wipe them out.

The hatred cannot get any worse - the leaders have to change before there is lasting peace. Including Sharon - but he is doing the dirty work right now and will be followed by a softer leader that the palestinians can sit down with.

The goal in the end is peace & a palestinian state - but the people that sell the 99% of good honest decent palestinians into a future of misery have to be removed. Isreal is fixing this issue even though many have no stomach for it.

Originally posted by Darth Be'lal

PALESTINIANS are big believers in terrorism, PALESTINIANS are the ones strapping bombs to young people to go and kill indescriminately, it's the PALESTINIANS who have threatened some 100 "unique reprisals" so it's the PALISTINIANS who have been tarred with the brush of terrorism. If the Palestinians are really willing to negotiate peace, they must get rid of the tarred brush of terrorism. Not something that is easy to accomplish.


that is so not true. just take my word for it, I lived in Israel, and what you're spewing is utter bullshit. so stop.

Whammy,

There are two parts to an argument. Claim and evidence. You've claimed that my post is (how'd you put it?) "utter bullshit."

Now it's great that you have that opinion of my post, but if you can't give evidence that what I'm saying is "utter bullshit" then it's you doing the spewing. If you have a point to make, then make it. If not, then don't post, dammit!

Be'lal I agree with your post - so long as when you say Palestinians you don't mean all Palestinians. Maybe Whammy read your post as a generalization of all Palestinians.

Let me be careful stating this, so you don't get the wrong idea. When I used the example of Germany being tarred with the brush of its attrocities of the second world war, I did not mean that Germany was full of Nazis. I meant that what has happened in Germany's past is going to be part of German history. It's going to be a chapter in that history that many (I hope) aren't going to be too proud of.

It's the same thing in Palestine. Whammy could be right. Most Palestinians may very well just want to get along with the Israelis and go on with their lives. However, the terrorist faction in that particular group of people does commit attrocities. They DO target innocent civilians, they do promise stooges 70 virgins if they go and blow themselves up in theaters and restaurants and such. Every time that faction of the Palestinians do that, it gets on the news and those attrocities reflect on the rest of the Palestinians and makes them all look bad.

but that is casued by society. most inteliigent people should be able to realize that while something horrible did happen, it wasn't supported by all palestinians.

but that is casued by society. most inteliigent people should be able to realize that while something horrible did happen, it wasn't supported by all palestinians.
That's a cop out post. Sounds like one of my rationals for communism...

I still like how it's all palestanians' fault. They're fighting a war. Remember, Israel conquered that piece of land. They just want it back. Neither are in the good, neither side is better than the other. The Israeli government is just as bad as the non-existant palestanian one.

how is the israeli government jst as bad? I never understood that line of thought. i guess those of you who think the israelis are the evil ones dont know how a war works. you see, israel conquered that land, it is theirs. when someone comes along and conquers them then it is thier land. you cant stat a war, decide you lost and call the whole thing off. there are no do overs. and, if I recall, israel has offered many times to give them the land. it ahs always been rejected, becasue the goal of the palestinians isnt to get"their" land back, it is to destroy jewish israel. they wont be happy until the last jews head dissapears into the sea. you ahve boughtinto the propaganda that israel is the evil ones here. they mearly efend themselves.

And when the people who are conquered try to fight back, they have every right in the world court. Their methods may be unorthodox, but back in the 1700s people stood there and shot and got shot at, and then in the 1800s they moved around a bit. 1900s they fought in trenches. Now it is being fought not by a standard military, but a group of people who believe in what they're fighting for, and using whatever methods they can. Guerrilla warfare came into play thanks to Che Guevera who need it so him and his band of 20 people had a chance against an army that out gunned and out numbered them. Wake up, they both defend themselves. They just do it in different ways, neither is right, but neither is worse than the other. Bulldozing matches blowing themselves up.

your lost. how is blowing up a pizza parlor packed with innocent civilians in tel aviv retribution for a military strike on terrorist command structures and personel in gaza? if they want to get back at the helicopter strikes go after the helicopter bases. if a mexican helicopter from tiajuana struckSan Diego, would we blow up a bus in Cancun? no, we would blow up the helicopter base.

Trav, nobody has offered the Palestinians a state since 1948. it doesn't mater an awful lot who conquered what when it comes down to morality. the Palestinians were there for al ong long time, and the Israelis made it really difficult for them to live there. sound right to you? I don't think so. personally, I'd love for there to be either a unified, eoaceful country (not happening anytime soon) or two seperate states, and most of all I would like for this conflict to end, and for the violence to stop.

Actually Whammybear, I have a post somewhere from the History Channel that states the area the Palestinians now occupy was sparsely populated and getting sparser until the Jews started showing up. I should find that post, I know I got it, somewhere. I think.

your lost. how is blowing up a pizza parlor packed with innocent civilians in tel aviv retribution for a military strike on terrorist command structures and personel in gaza? if they want to get back at the helicopter strikes go after the helicopter bases.
How do you propose going into the guarded helicoptor base with bombs on your chest? Come on military guy, think tactically. Much easier to go after the politicians who ordered the strike, than to go after the poor guys who had to do it. Much better politically and tactically. And how is bulldozing civilian houses good? What about sniping the peace workers. There's been more than one. Stop trying to think Israel is such a good democratic nation.

if a mexican helicopter from tiajuana struckSan Diego, would we blow up a bus in Cancun? no, we would blow up the helicopter base.
No we wouldn't. First there would be diplomatic meetings. Then if we get something from the Mexican gov. nothing would happen. If we didn't, then we'd invade, and go straight to Mexico City. Not bomb the helicopter base, it would probably be near the bottom of the list of priorities.

Originally posted by Blibblob
your lost. how is blowing up a pizza parlor packed with innocent civilians in tel aviv retribution for a military strike on terrorist command structures and personel in gaza? if they want to get back at the helicopter strikes go after the helicopter bases.
How do you propose going into the guarded helicoptor base with bombs on your chest? Come on military guy, think tactically. Much easier to go after the politicians who ordered the strike, than to go after the poor guys who had to do it. Much better politically and tactically. And how is bulldozing civilian houses good? What about sniping the peace workers. There's been more than one. Stop trying to think Israel is such a good democratic nation.

so in your mind blowing up buses full of people going to work is going after politicians? if they want to stop helicopters blowing up their people they have to blow up the helicopters, period. blowing up pizza parlors full of innocnet people doesnt destroy the helicopters that blow them up. if anyone is not thinking tactically it is you, who seems to think blowing up civilians with suicide bombers is going to stop a helicopter from blowing up a car in another city. bulldozing the houses is meant to be a deterant. they buldoze the houses of the families of the suicide bombers, not just randon houses. obviously it isnt working.

Originally posted by Blibblob if a mexican helicopter from tiajuana struckSan Diego, would we blow up a bus in Cancun? no, we would blow up the helicopter base.
No we wouldn't. First there would be diplomatic meetings. Then if we get something from the Mexican gov. nothing would happen. If we didn't, then we'd invade, and go straight to Mexico City. Not bomb the helicopter base, it would probably be near the bottom of the list of priorities. [/B]

you think if mexican helipcopters were flying missions into the US and blowing shit up we would act diplomatically first? LOL, ya, right, :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
Actually Whammybear, I have a post somewhere from the History Channel that states the area the Palestinians now occupy was sparsely populated and getting sparser until the Jews started showing up. I should find that post, I know I got it, somewhere. I think.

all of Israel was pretty sparesly poplulated until the zionists started settling there and drainig all of the swamps so they could farm. despite that, almost all of the people who lived therre were Arabs, and a large chunk of them left after Israel was established becasue it's a jewish state.

Exactly Whammy,

The jews started moving in, then all of a sudden a zillion arabs show up and claim to be Palastinians, dammit!

um...not exactly. 750,000 Palestinians left Israel around 1948 and are living in other places as refugees. they have gotten a lot larger, to atleast 5million, if not 6million people. it's been 55 years since Israel was declared a state, pleny of time for three generations to be born out of Israel, and the refugees re now a much larger group then they were before. this isn't including the 1.5 million (about) Arabs living in Israel itself. Palestinians are an actual ethnic group.

so in your mind blowing up buses full of people going to work is going after politicians? if they want to stop helicopters blowing up their people they have to blow up the helicopters, period. blowing up pizza parlors full of innocnet people doesnt destroy the helicopters that blow them up. if anyone is not thinking tactically it is you, who seems to think blowing up civilians with suicide bombers is going to stop a helicopter from blowing up a car in another city. bulldozing the houses is meant to be a deterant. they buldoze the houses of the families of the suicide bombers, not just randon houses. obviously it isnt working.
So, you're saying that EVERYTHING that the palestanian terrorists bomb are civilian locations, with no military around, and at places of complete unimportance? And that the Israeli bulldoze ONLY terrorist houses, and ONLY kill terrorists? Too much beer?

Let's bulldoze houses so the people have even a less reason to live!

you think if mexican helipcopters were flying missions into the US and blowing shit up we would act diplomatically first? LOL, ya, right,
Well, not with Bush in office. But he's already been known to make rash actions based on little to flawed to no evidence. Going straight in would probably end in something like the Bay of Pigs.

yes bliblob, I am saying that the palestinians target civilians in cities, not military personnel on bases. is this some sort of revelation to you? did you think they were going after political people who happend to be eating at that particular pizza parlor, or riding that particular bus? LOL, you are naieve.

and you along with all your liberal ilk have no faith whatsoeve in our military. if you think going into mexico would be a bay of pigs, thats sad. maybe one day you will get a chance to serve, and when you do and hear people like you telling you you cant do your job you may look at it another way.

Blibblob

You sound like you have some sympathy for terrorist acts and no sympathy for the response to terrorist acts. That's screwed up - plain and simple.

The elected Palestinina government the Palastinian Authority is broke. They get millions of aid each year from many countries including the US and where does it get spent? Building their infrastructure such as schools and hospitals? No. It gets spent in their attempt to destroy Israel. All this and Yasser Araffat has a $200 million fortune, I guess being a poor terrorist is pretty good.

The Palestinians need to learn that Israel is not going to go away. Once they can come to accept this fact peace can be achieved. Unfortunately with the current Palestinian leadership you are not going to have this happen. Remember, Araffat was given all he ever wanted and more by Clinton in 1999 and he turned it down...the current intefada (sp?) started shortly therafter.

The Palestinians are going to be given a very good opportunity to govern themselves when Israel pulls out of the Gaza strip. Israeli soldiers will no longer be there to interfere with the Palestinians and there will be no Israeli settlements. With the coast of Gaza they should turn it into a tourist attraction and invest in their nation...prove to the world that the Palestinians are capable of peace and prosperity. Without the Israelis in Gaza they are going to have no excuse as to why they cannot...because no longer can they blame Israeli interference.

Israel is not goin tp ull out of Gaza anytime soon, beleive me. the settlemetns there are mostly orthodox jews who think it's their right as jews to inhabit the land they are on, and they don't wnat to move, it will take endless negotiations to get them out of the West Bank. on top of that, the Palestinians don't have a government. it's as simple as that. were they to become an organized state something productive might happen in the region, but that tourist attraction you're talking about is really a joke.

WhammyBar

You may not believe the Palestinians have a government but their Web site begs to differ.

http://www.pna.gov.ps/

Yasser Araffat is their elected President. That sounds like a legit government to me...even though they are highly ineffective. I agree with you that any Israeli pullout is not going to happen any time soon...however when it does this will be a big step towards peace if the Palestinians can embrace it.

yes, there is a palestinain governemnt, but it doesn't do shit. nobody has any real authority, and the whole setup is comepletely inneffective.