Is anyone familiar with or interested in it?

Stuff like Carlos Castenada?

I would be interested in finding out more about the Raven, and the Thunderbird. :D

Originally posted by Vilepagan
I would be interested in finding out more about the Raven, and the Thunderbird. :D
Thunderbird? (http://www.mozilla.org/products/thunderbird/)

Here is one rendition of Thunderbird legend......
although the stories change across regions....

Thunderbird legend (http://www.ilhawaii.net/~stony/lore90.html)

Thunderbird Woman is one of my daughter's Indian Names.

I don't think I've heard that version before. I seem to remember that the Thunderbird had some sort of aura of ill omen about it. Bad luck and all that...

what I know is that Thunderbird is good and a protector. Some call Eagle the Thunderbird, and some call Condor the Thunderbird. He brings rain and storms, and is a powerful symbol.

As for Raven, he is a messenger. You spot him at funny times, he just shows up out of nowhere.

Bad omen, bad luck, sign of trouble!!! God forbid he land on a perch or in a tree directly above you. Raven is a bad dude....

Perhaps I had the two confused...:eek:

The native American myths are all very good reads. It's always interesting to me how cultures a world apart created myths that although different in content contain the same archetype. The archetypes must have some deep significance.

Within myths lie great lessons from what must have been a wiser time.

These are the seven sacred teachings....and their animal representatives....



The Sharing Circle (http://www.thesharingcircle.com/sacred_teachings.html)

I can talk about the four directions later too.......

http://www.thesharingcircle.com/images/dancer_one.jpg

Another thing about Raven.......his message isn not always serious doom, sometimes he is an annoyance or a trickster. And he is a theif and scavenger. If you see Raven harrases you or stalks you things end up missing or lost. Raven is also mouthy and he is wily. They are clever clever birds. and you don't want to get on his bad side either................

There are many tellings of the White Buffalo Calf Woman. I find this story interesting. Something happened along itme ago in the West to the Lakota People. A sacred bundle and pipe was given to the People 19 generations ago. It has been handed down in a direct line and still exists today and is kept by a guy named Arvol Lookinghorse.

Fascinating! Imagine being able to track your direct ancestry straight back for 19 generations, in the same spot on the same land as they did.

Here is a nice telling of the legend there are lots of versions and this is only one..............



White Buffalo Woman (http://www.crystalinks.com/buffalocalfwoman.html)

Thanks for sharing this with us Creetwins. I find all of it fascinating.

I seem to remember something in the news in the last few years about a white buffalo being born somewhere in the US and the story of these prophecies was mentioned as well.

Yah Vile tha's right!

Here they are

Miracle and her babies... (http://www.angelfire.com/az/joyfuliving/whitebuff.html)

http://www.my2angels.com/media/wbuf/threebuffbt2.jpg

Creetwins, are you a Native American? If so, which tribe? Or are you just interested in the culture, and what spiked your interest?

Two years in a row, I've gone to a women's retreat, and have had the pleasure of participating in a sweat lodge run by a Lakota Inipi and her daughter.

I think the NA culture is beautiful. Rich, and deeply spiritual. I haven't personally delved in too deeply myself; I don't want to 'hyjack' someone else's culture, but meanwhile, I find a lot of universal truths imbedded in the beliefs.

What are your thoughts on non-NAs participating in NA ritual, or adopting NA beliefs?

hi p marie! I know that there are various opinions about sharing culture in the native community. Personally I am mixde between two cultures and have a foot in each world. My partner's hertiage is Cree. My father's heritage is Mowhawk. My mother is Russian heritage......so i have an appreciation for both reigious spiritual worlds, and respect bothe mennonite babtists and indiginous culture. The aspects i can apply to and relate to better in my personal life are tied into the native spirituality. In my opinion christianity is still in it's infancy and while it has respectable aspects, there are still things to iron out, and balance to attain. There are inbalances in the way it is primarily male (right), and the (left) female is minimalized. Instead of them being complimenting opposites.
a bird can't fly without both wings...

I think more people who occupy this land should really be aware of it's foundations, and the balance that occured here not so long ago.........be familiar with and think about the land you sit on this minute..........and what transpired there......

In native society it is encouraged to share your culture with non-natives, that is why you hardly see entrance fees into a powwow, and all nations are welcome. There are other traditional feasts and gatherings and celebrations where all are welcome. However.
I know it is really frowned upon to sell ceremonies or healings or medicine or charge any type of admission or costs.....it encourages healing for profit and the focus on maintaing teachings can become diluted or misguided..........the traditional way is an exchange or gift in return for the help.

I have lived both on the reserve and in the rich urban areas.

And from what i have seen both could stand to learn a lot from each other.

I have alot of opinions about social issues being overcome by native people. I think I'll take a break for now though......
:D

it could get windy in here.....:)

Hi here is a little info on the Sundance....

My babies recieved their Indian Names at a Sundance when they were 9 months old. We had to buy a lot of gifts for the giveaway. The dancers in the Sundance lodge fast for four days and nights and dance from sun up to sun down. The Elder who named our girls knew they were coming and chose their names even before we got there. After we entered the lodge and danced with the girls they were named and the gifts we brought are passed out to the people attending. Some areas dancers are peirced, meaning they are tethered to the centre pole by two bones peireced behing muscles in the chest and they dance this way. Fasting brings the dancers closer to their spirituality. there is more in this essay but you can enter Sundance in your search to find lots of info on it......(this is a plains ceremony)

Sundance (http://www.crystalinks.com/sundance.html)

o'siyo all who read this (o'siyo is Cherokee for 'hello')
2 Years ago, a new Nation was introduced in Greenback, Loudon County, Tennessee (Near Knoxville) and was named 'Chilhowee Native American Descendants of Tanasi'. It is a fact of life that no matter what we do in this life, we cannot change our genetics: We cannot become full-bloods, 1/2 bloods, or even 1/4 bloods. Also, it is my belief that full-bloods will eventually die out and for those that have denied the passing of their teachings, rituals and many other things to those of us who are not full-bloods, that those things will become lost to the world. What a sad legacy!
Like myself, many of us are Native American Descendants of more than one Nation: myself Tuscarora (from New York in 1750 when the Tuscarora of North Carolina ended their 100 year war and sought permission from the Iroquois Confederacy to come to their lands and later became the 6th Nation of the Iroquois Confederacy; and Cherokee (which goes back to the Trail of Tears).
We practice those things taught us and in which we feel comfort and understanding. We teach these things to our Children! We seek to show others the Red Path. Ours is a Cherokee-Influenced Society, but we are inter-tribal.
There are those who ask What God(s) do you worship? (And they say Ignorance is bliss!) Why we worship the Same Creator that created the world on which we live, regardless of what name you give him: Wankan Tanka; Yowa; The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. He who goes by many names in many lands.
Even in the Old Testament of King James Version of the Bible, He had 1000 names, including Great Spirit.
As for Shamanism, that is a word that is not Native American derived. Priest, Healer, Medican Man or Woman are the names associated. The use of Natural remedies cured many of the illnesses of our people, and today many people are going back to the herbs and such for cures!
No one was a better Conservationalist than the Native American, for by their own 10 Commandments, they taught 'Take care of Mother Earth'. One needs only to check out the Native American 10 Commandments and the Native Code of Ethics, and compare them to the white society to come to a full understanding of what 'Native American Spirituality' is truly all about.
wado for letting me offer a different outlook on an age-old matter.
Gray Owl, Chief, Bird Clan, CNADT

o'siyo, Gray Owl, and Welcome!

I love your signature line, "May your Path prove your heart." It reminds me of an online friend's sig, "May you walk in beauty upon your path."

2 Years ago, a new Nation was introduced in Greenback, Loudon County, Tennessee (Near Knoxville) and was named 'Chilhowee Native American Descendants of Tanasi'.
That's interesting! I didn't know new nations could be formed. Was Tanasi a Nation, or a specific person?

wado for letting me offer a different outlook on an age-old matter.
Gray Owl, Chief, Bird Clan, CNADT

And thank you for sharing it. I hope you share more.

Borrowing my friend's phrase,
Walk in beauty on your path.

o'siyo udo;
Tanasi is the name the Cherokee called Tennessee...The Tanasi monuments are on Tellico Lake near Sequoyah's museum. On the monument, it states that the Tennessee name was actually a misspelling of Tanasi on an Army Lt's map and that is how tennessee name was chosen. The monument is near the Cherokee City of Choata, which is now under water because of rerouting of the river. Fort Loundon is there also close to Sequoyah museum. Sequoyah was George Gist, who developed the written alphabet and language for the Cherokee. He was part Cherokee.
John Ross, who was the Great Chief of the Cherokee during the Trail of Tears movement from the East to Oklahoma, was himself only 1/8th Cherokee.
There are a lot of stories concerning the Trail of Tears, some in books, other in Native Lore; and also concerning the forming of the Qualla Boundary in North Carolina (which is called Cherokee Reservation).
Hope this answers many questions, and yes I shall post more here so that people may know more on the subject.
wado for asking.
Gray Owl

Tansi Grey Owl. (tansi is Cree hello)

It is nice to hear the perspective of an American brother......thank you for sharing, I thought this thread might die due to lack of interest!! Hai Hai!

Thanks for the comments folks. Something I wish to share: During the Sacred Circle we try not to reflect on the negative things done to or by our people. That is history and cannot be changed for it is written in stone. We look towards the day that all humankind live in Peace and Harmony with each other and accept each other without the need to try to change them. Wer also at that time seek assistance for the inflicted, the sick, the grieving, those that have lost sight of the GOAL, prayer for those that are bewildered or seeking whatever in places where they won't find it.

But, by the same token, we cannot forget what it was our ancestors went thru or what their beliefs were/are, the bad times as well as the good.

I would like to share with you a speech given by White Cloud, Chief. I believe it was given to the Congress of the United States in early 1900's:

'Your Religous Calling was written on Plates of Stone by the flaming finger of an angry God.

Our Religion was established by the Traditions of our ancestors, The Dreams of our Elders that are given to them in the silent hours of night by the Great Spirit, and the premonitions of the Learned Beings.

It is written in the Hearts of our people, thus we do not require churches - which only lead us to argue about God.

We Do Not Wish This.

Earthly things may be argued about with Men, But we never argue over God.

And the thought Man should Rule over Nature and change its ways following his liking was Never Understood by Us.

Our Belief is that the Great Spirit has created all things.

Not just Mankind, but All animals, All plants, All rocks... All on Earth and amongst the stars, with true soul for us all.

LIFE IS HOLY.

But, You do not understand our prayers when we address the Sun, Moon, and Winds.

You have judged us without understanding.

Only because our prayers are different.

But we are able to live in Harmony with All of Nature.

All of Nature is within us and we are a part of All Nature.' end quote

Is this still not true of our Christen Brothers today? Those who are not enlightened? Whose responsibility is it to teach these things to those that are ignorant of them?

wado for letting me vent...lol.
Gray Owl

.Thanks for the comments folks. Something I wish to share: During the Sacred Circle we try not to reflect on the negative things done to or by our people. That is history and cannot be changed for it is written in stone.

Gray Owl....I agree with what you say about history being written in stone...... as part of my journey, letting go of the anger I have as a result of the legacy created because of these things is something I struggle with and is one of my goals. I have not seen many American Reservations, and none as far south as yours, but based on my experiences here in Canada, and the conditions suffered by many in our Northerern First Nations I have my concerns. For a little while the path was lost and our ways were minimilized . Here we call them the Lost Generation. Generations of our Elders are changed from the Residential School System filtering right down to todays generation, many of whom are still lost. So many people in remote Northern Reserves are living in squalid, deplorable third world conditions (no running water, no winter roads, poor health care, limits in education), struggle with abuse issues, poverty, substance abuse, the sex trade, and displacement. There are moves being made to address these issues, but many many many are forgotten.

We look towards the day that all humankind live in Peace and Harmony with each other and accept each other without the need to try to change them.

We are a strong people and there is hope and I pray to the Creator every day for these things...Wer also at that time seek assistance for the inflicted, the sick, the grieving, those that have lost sight of the GOAL, prayer for those that are bewildered or seeking whatever in places where they won't find it.

White Clouds speach is Beautiful and Simple and his words ring true and strong.......

o'siyo all;
I agree conditions on Reservations is less than desireable..I have been watching the Oneida's in New York where I was raised.

I want to share another quote with all:

This is from William Commanda, Mamiwinini, Canada 1991:

"Traditional people of Indian nations have interpreted the two roads that face the light-skinned race as the road to technology and the road to spirituality. We feel that the road to technology..., has led modern society to a damaged and seared earth. Could it be that the road to technology represents a rush to destruction, and that the road to spirituality represents the slower path that the traditional native people have traveled and are now seeking again? The earth is not scorched on this trail. The grass is strill growing there." end- quote

Thanks for reading.
Gray Owl

o'siyo all
Sorry that I have been busy to post here of late, but here is a thought

My Native American Clan (The Bird Clan of the Chilhowee Nation) of which I am the Clan Chief, is hosting a Native American Gathering this weekend. We will have all the elements of a full Pow Wow including vendors. But we are a spiritual entity and hope to touch the hearts of those in attendance. We will be holding Sacred Circle and will also have our first meeting of our new Church on Sunday...the Church name is "Creator First Church"

It is prophesied that in the latter days the logs of all mankind shall come together in the fire and the people shall be as one. We are inter-Tribal, and many nations' descendants and even those without Native American Blood are joining with us. A new Clan was formed in California at one of the Universities!!

I encourage you to check out our web site : Geocities.com/cnadt
owa
wado
donadagohvi
Gray Owl

Enjoy your celebrations, and thank you for sharing.

Megwetch!