OK, jsut for fun, if we were to divide the nation at the missisippi river, and on the east coast all the democrats, liberal and those types moved and made their own country, and all the republicans, conservaties and those types moved west of the mississipi and mad etheir own coutr, where would you move? what do you think the country you moved to would be, and how do you think the other country would be? in 50 years, which country would be beter off? Plese dont argue why liberals should get the west and stuff like that, thats not the point.

i would rather live in liberal eastern america. not only would i be surrounded by my leftist kin, but i wouldn't have to go anywhere.

Conservatives would destroy the west, they would hyper consume, kill the forests, pollute the streams, and destroy any living creater that doesn't (or does when you kill it) bring a profit.

Let them live in the filth they created. Move them all to New Jersey and Delaware.

People in the west, and especially the north west have a much greater connection to the planet, and the environment around them. They are talking about urban growth boundries, and alternative modes of living (from light rail to wind power, to sustainable living)

I have the comparison, I grew up on the east coast, and none of these things were issues. It was all car culture, and suburban sprawl. These things are happening here on the west, but it's the influx of conservative elements that has created such a destructive demand.

didnt I say not to bring up such thigs as who should get the west and who shouldnt? its not about that man. I should have known better, next thing they will be accusing me of being a christian biggot for trying to tell them what they can and can not talk about:rolleyes:

I'd make it rich in the west coast and destroy everything for profit (cuz its going to be destroyed anyways) and do a few rockefeller stunts then move over to the east to have a nice leisurely retirement.

why do you think the conservatives woud destroy the environment in the west? who do you think is doing all the farming and hunting and fishing in this country? not the liberals who have never touched dirt with anything other than a 200 dollar hiking sandal, thats for sure.

Oh come on, conservatives have always regarded the environment as a much lower priority.

BTW; farming, fishing and hunting do not help the environment.

Originally posted by Travh20
why do you think the conservatives woud destroy the environment in the west? who do you think is doing all the farming and hunting and fishing in this country? not the liberals who have never touched dirt with anything other than a 200 dollar hiking sandal, thats for sure.

Yeah that's why our aqua filters are being depleted at a greater rate then being recovered, that's why various fish and bird species are placed on the endangered species lists. We are putting toxic sludge on our farmlands; we are spraying our food with deadly chemicals. We are killing the soil, and ourselves.

What happened to the California Bear? Where is the Oregon beaver (perportedly grew to over 6 feet tall). Hunted to extinction...

I live in a very liberal progressive neighborhood, I see small gardens, and flowers, and fruit trees, planted by these liberals you say don't touch dirt. I see community gardens and green spaces for all to enjoy. I go to more affluent areas and all I hear the hum of the air conditioner or the roar of the highway, neither are very desirable.

Have you ever seen a clear cut hill? Have you ever seen a stream bed destroyed by cattle? Believe me, current conventional methods of agriculture (and I mean pesticide ridden, and factory farm processes) are not earth friendly. It's a shame so many well intended farmers have been sold such a rotton bag of goods.

tell me, how do you help the environment, or any liberal for that matter. saying you care more about the environment is not helping it either, I am sorry. saying that conservatives dont care about the environment or could care less about it is crap. you probably believe republicans want to take hot lunchs away from kids and force little old ladies to choose between heat and food. come on man, I thought you could see past stereotypes.

some of the biggest conservancy groups in the country are founded and run by hunters and fisherman. people who actually use the land, and love it.

Originally posted by Pepper
Yeah that's why our aqua filters are being depleted at a greater rate then being recovered, that's why various fish and bird species are placed on the endangered species lists. We are putting toxic sludge on our farmlands; we are spraying our food with deadly chemicals. We are killing the soil, and ourselves.

What happened to the California Bear? Where is the Oregon beaver (perportedly grew to over 6 feet tall). Hunted to extinction...

I live in a very liberal progressive neighborhood, I see small gardens, and flowers, and fruit trees, planted by these liberals you say don't touch dirt. I see community gardens and green spaces for all to enjoy. I go to more affluent areas and all I hear the hum of the air conditioner or the roar of the highway, neither are very desirable.

Have you ever seen a clear cut hill? Have you ever seen a stream bed destroyed by cattle? Believe me, current conventional methods of agriculture (and I mean pesticide ridden, and factory farm processes) are not earth friendly. It's a shame so many well intended farmers have been sold such a rotton bag of goods.


the 6 foot tall beaver? what about the dinosaurs and saber tooth tigers? I have seen a lot of logging, and a hell of a lot more forest. tell me where the clear cut in this county, without some ecological reson?

anyway, sorry I forgot to mention 50 dollar gardening gloves and little shovels along with 200 dollar sandals :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Travh20
some of the biggest conservancy groups in the country are founded and run by hunters and fisherman. people who actually use the land, and love it.
Yes I agree that they appreciate the land, but they do not conserve it. They may love the land, but those groups you speak of do more to harm the land then they do to help it (though I do realize that they have a very small impact).

6 foot tall beaver existed in Oregon until the late 1800's. They were exterminated by greedy fur traders.

Clear cuts are all over the god damn pacific range! They are all over the cascade range. In Washington and in Oregon. They degrade the soil, cause mudslides and destroy streams (usually used for Salmon Spawning).

There are sustainable ways to harvest wood, without ripping down a whole chunk of forest. Without killing 1000 year old trees for telephone books. Without displacing natural habitat, and exposing the land to invasive plants.

The people I see doing sit in's on and blocking logging roads are not wearing $200 sandles, or $50 gloves. Most of them probably bought their clothing used from the many thrift stores that are in the area, as does reusing and recycling resources that others would just throw out.

the trouble is that radical environmentalists see breaking a pine needle in half is harming the land (thats no exageration)

Your talking about the treehuggers. Im talking about the average liberal.

Personally I dont care as much for the environment as most, but it is still a fact that liberals care more for the environment then conservatives do. Look at the Green party, your not going to find many conservatives there.

Originally posted by Travh20
the trouble is that radical environmentalists see breaking a pine needle in half is harming the land (thats no exageration)

I think it's a big exageration. Prove it.

I would like to live in the liberal east. I would breed my own kind, and corrupt the minds of the people around me and one day, my gigantic conservitive army would swing the polls in favor of the republicans. Hey a guy can dream cant he?

Originally posted by Pepper
Have you ever seen a clear cut hill? Have you ever seen a stream bed destroyed by cattle?

Ever seen an entire mountain knocked over for coal with the nearby streams absorbing all of the runoff? You can move to West Virginia and see what Robert Byrd hath wrought.

Hey Lionel, I'm with you on that. Ron Wyden is a dem senator here in Oregon, and is the biggest recipient of $$ from the timber industry. He helped support the bull crap forest recovery bill that Bush pushed through congress.

You may remember when Bush came to Oregon last summer and talked about the "holocaust" he witnessed here? Well they were ponderosa pine trees. Huge beautiful trees that need fire for the seeds to germinate. The area is very dry and the thunderstorms are very fierce, yet people insist on living on these tinderboxes areas.

Fire is part of the natural cycle, without fire no seeds germinate, no new trees to grow, but Bush liked to use it as a political issue to funnell profits into the timber industry. Did anyone hear that on the media?

Have you ever been to the west coast (Not smelly southern california)? It's really a very different world here.

I would move out East and then make war on the West. With all of us po' folks out West, who would they send to fight us in their stead?

I would like to live in the liberal part. Then I wouldn't have to work, and could simply live off of socialist programs and go bowling all day instead.

I think you can guess where I'd live. But I ask you this, do you seriously think the conservative side could function properly? I highly doubt a rich snobby accountant will want to work in a factory. With all of the workers on the liberal side, who will the conservatives exploit?

yes bliblob, all conservatives are rich guys with top hats. grow up kid.

yes bliblob, all conservatives are rich guys with top hats. grow up kid.
A conservative country wouldn't even dream of being able to compete with a liberal country next door. Working conditions would be more than ten times better. And what reason does a working class poor boy have to be a conservative?

LOL, you are clueless borg. you actually belive that top hat capitalist crap dont you? all rich people are not consevatives. all conservatives are not rich people. you been completly consumed by the old conservative big meanie lie. there is more to conservatism than economics blinbblob.

Originally posted by Travh20
LOL, you are clueless borg. you actually belive that top hat capitalist crap dont you? all rich people are not consevatives. all conservatives are not rich people. you been completly consumed by the old conservative big meanie lie. there is more to conservatism than economics blinbblob.
Why do you keep dragging me into these things? Blib is not me! Second time you've done that today...

here is more to conservatism than economics blinbblob.
No there isn't. Let's see the politicalcompass.org compass. Economics is left and right, social is up and down.(DAMMIT, why do bunches and bunches of spaces not work!)
Athoritarian(This is up) /\
(Nazis and Bush:Dhehe) |
<-------------------------------------------------->
Left-Wing(Communism,ha)|Right-Wing(Capitalism,Conservatives!)
Liberal(Uh, this is down)\/


Anyways. How the hell can you think that a place of people who are out to make money, compete against people with workers. There will be very few lower class workers with the conservatives. Why? Because, the same thing that has been happening to them for the past countless millenia wont change.

In ending, I'll have to tell you how stupid your comparison is. It's liberal vs. Conservative. You stuck social against economic theories! Even though it is difficult to be a liberal conservative...

Originally posted by Blibblob
Working conditions would be more than ten times better.

Unfortunately no one will have a job because they'll tax the crap out of companies and put in almost impossible to meet environmental and workplace regulations.

Actually maybe they will have jobs - they'll cross the border into the West where all of the companies relocate.

take your politicalcompass.com and shove it. if you dont think abortion and gay rights define what side of the political spectrum you are on as much as you economic views, you are crazy.

and in liberal land, the minimum wage will be so high that no one will be able to employee anybody but the government, who taxes 75% of everyones pay to take care of the people who cant get jobs becasue the minimum wage is through the roof to make it look like you really care more than anyone else.

http://www.digitalronin.f2s.com/politicalcompass/images/axeswithnames.gif

Thank you borg.

Unfortunately no one will have a job because they'll tax the crap out of companies and put in almost impossible to meet environmental and workplace regulations.

Actually maybe they will have jobs - they'll cross the border into the West where all of the companies relocate.
Ever heard of a workers collective?

take your politicalcompass.com and shove it. if you dont think abortion and gay rights define what side of the political spectrum you are on as much as you economic views, you are crazy.
And you didn't comprehend what I posted, therefore I am crazy and you are an idiot. :D

I thought the political compass was what John Kerry used to decide waht his position on certain issues would be in certain states

With all of the workers on the liberal side, who will the conservatives exploit?

You may be surprised to hear this, but the working class leans conservative. I think they are sick of being exploited by the special interests programs.

guys cool it. I thought that this was supposed to be a funny little thread where we could all relax and push a button and see little lines appear. now youve gone off and made it all serious.

Neither. I'd build a bridge over the Mississippi river, live on top of it, and charge a toll from people who got tired of one side or the other, or just couldn't make up their damn minds where they wanted to be.

so instead of a fence sitter, you would be a bridge sitter

Yes, but I would a prosperous and comfortable bridge sitter.
;)