salaamin alaikum to all muslims and peace to all non muslims in here...i look around a little in here and i saw that the people in here wrote in a polite way, this made me more interrested so i took a closer look to see what you knew about islam...but since the post about islam was mostly about politics i am wondering if you know anything about islam as as religion...so i created this threat, so that anyone who has a question about could post it here and i will answer as good as i am able to do

Originally posted by mehmetinoglu
so i created this threat,

I hope that was a typo. :)

Welcome to the forums - I hope you'll stay and contribute to the debates.

Welcome Mehmet, it's good to have a muslim posting here. I must second Lionel's hope that it was a typo and not a freudian slip in your opening post. I for one know almost nothing about Islam and look forward to reading your posts.

BTW the image you posted, is that a picture of "The Blue Mosque"?

Welcome aboard Mehmet. I used to work with a muslim at a former job. Are you from an arab nation, or are you an american muslim? Im asking because i would like to know how muslims view American muslims. Looking forward to discussions of your faith.

Welcome.
Was Mohammad supposed to be a profit or the son of God?

your right, i did make a typing mistake, what i meant was THREAD not threat.... :)

yes that is a picture of the sultanahmet masjid (blue mosque)...

i am a kurd and i live in europe (denmark)...to be honest with you all muslims hate the american goverment and their foreign policy, since it will take a long time to write it all down i will post later why muslims hate the american goverment...

the prophet Muhammad (saws) was not the son of Allah (st) (Allah (st) means God, but i choosed to write Allah (st) since the name is older and can't be bend like God, for example God, Gods, Goddess, you get the picture :) )...in the quran in the surah Ihklas it says that Allah (st) was not born nor does Allah (st) gives birth...


picture of the masjid (mosque) in tokyo

basics of islam....

the five pillars
1. Belief in Allah (st).. this is the most important part in islam..to believe in Allah (st) one must say "I herby testifie that here is God but Allah (st) and Muhammed (saws) is his apostle"...then you become a muslim again (in islam we believe that all people are born as muslim, but when we reach the age of understanding we decide which path we will follow) to remain a muslim a muslim must be careful in what he say thinks and do...i will post this later
2. Praying..one prays at least 5 times a day, during different times that are set according to the sun
3. Zakat (i am not sure of the word, charity? it means that you must, if you are able to do so help/give the poor about 5-10% of yearly income.
4. Fasting...during the month of ramadan one must fast (no drinking no eating no sex no smoking ect, untill the sun sets), if a muslim is not able to fast, cuase of sickness or similar, then they must fast the days they have missed..old men/women and young children who are to weak to fast are excluded..
5. Hadj (pilgrimage to mecca at least once in a life time, if you are able to do so)

Originally posted by mehmetinoglu
i am a kurd and i live in europe (denmark)...to be honest with you all muslims hate the american goverment and their foreign policy, since it will take a long time to write it all down i will post later why muslims hate the american goverment...

The American government is made up of Americans so do you hate Americans?

no, that would be generalising... there where a lot of protest against the war which shows that many americans was against it :) ...also the media in america is not doing a good job informing the people on what goes on in the world.... and if i am not mistaking 100 millions americans did not vote at all (gore vs bush)...but if an american who knows what happens in the world and still support their goverment actions 100% then yes i hate that person.. :mad:

Hello. Please join us in the POLITICAL forum. Nice to meet you.

I would like to ask you Mehmet, the various christian sects have many different "versions" of the Bible that they profess to be the "true word of God". Do the various Muslim sects have different versions of the Q'uran that they use, or is their just one accepted version of that holy book in use throughout the Muslim world?

Also do you have a favorite sura? If so please post it.

there are different sects in islam, yes...but all sects and the orthodox use the same quran...(the quran came to the world over 1400 years ago its context is still the same)...the sects differs mostly in the haddiths (since a lot of the haddith did not come from the prophet Muhammad (saws) )

My favourite surah (chapter) is the Al Fatiha surah..

1. The Opening (Al-Fátíha)

In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.

Praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds,

The Beneficent, the Merciful.

Master of the Day of Judgment,

Thee (alone) we worship; Thee (alone) we ask for help.

Show us the straight path,

The path of those whom Thou hast favoured; Not the (path) of those who earn Thine anger nor of those who go astray.

An interesting Surah, that sounds like it is at the beginning of the Q'uran.

What is your feeling about people who commit violence in the name of Allah?

What does the Q'uran say about the proper treatment of infidels?

P.S. Mehmet, just so you know I'm an infidel. (in case my nickname didn't give that away :) )

those who attacks people who are not involved are murderes pure and simple...if a muslim kills an innocent man in the name of Allah (st) he has made then two big sins first he took the name of Allah (st) in vain, second he killed an innocent person...the muslim will recieve punishment according to the sharia in this life and if it is the will of Allah (st) he will punished in the afterlife before entering paradice here is an ayah (verse) about killing
surah (chapter) Al Inaam, ayah (verse) 151

"You will not kill. God has made life sacred, except in the course of Justice. These are His commandments to you, that you may understand."

the quran about the non muslims...
surah (chapter) Al Imran, ayah (verse) 64
"Say (O Muhammad): O people of the Book (Jews and Christians) come to an agreement between us and you, that we shall worship none but Allah, and that we shall take no partners with Him, and none of us shall take others for Lords beside Allah. And if they turn away, then say: Bear witness that we are those who have surrendered (unto Him)."

Surah (chapter) Baqra, ayah (verse) 256
"There shall be no compulsion in religion"

i posted before that a muslim has to be carefull in what he say, think and do....
here is what a muslim must believe in...
1. the 13 abilities of Allah (st)*
2. the quran
3. the paradice
4. hell
5. the angels (and that the angels are all muslims)
6. the prophets (all 124000 of them and that they where all muslims and honourble men
7. the day of judgement and the other things that happens after the day of judgement
8. the jinns

*the 13 abilities of Allah (st)
1. the excistence of Allah (st), Allah (st) excist with out place and with out time since Allah (st) created place and time.
2. the oneness of Allah (st), there is only one, no sons no parts only 1
3. the life of Allah (st), Allah (st) is alive but the life of Allah (st) is not like ours with hearths and souls
4. the power of Allah (st), Allah has the power to do anything
5. the will of Allah (st), Allah (st) has the will to decide what will happen and Allah (st) has the will to decide what will not happen.
6. the knowledge of Allah (st), Allah (st) knows everything, Allah (st) knows what happend yesterday what happens today and what will happen tomorrow
7. the sight of Allah (st), Allah (st) sees everything, but not like us humans with eyes
8. the speech of Allah (st), Allah (st) speaks, but not like us with language, tounge and voice
9. the hearing of Allah (st), Allah (st) hears everything, but like us with ears
10. the endlessness of Allah (st), Allah (st) has no end
11. the beginninglessness of Allah (st), Allah (st) has no beginning
12. the uncomparasibleness of Allah (st), Allah (st) can not be compared to anything we can imagine
13. the independence of Allah (st), Allah (st) needs nothing and nobody and but everything and everybody needs Allah (st)

i will later post what a muslim must be carefull not to do/say/think in order to stay a muslim

Does your religion teach you that it is ok to hate another human being? Im not trying to be politically correct or anything, but you throw the word "hate" around kinda easy in my opinion.

we are taught to hate the evil jinns and shaitan (the devil) also we are taught to hate our enemies (those who invade our countries and kill our brothers and sisters)

Did you hate the American government in the decade of the 90's? Or is this a more recent thing because of our war with Iraq the last couple years?

then injustice to the muslim people by the american goverment goes way more back then the 90's and it still excist today..´so yes i hate the american goverment and i will continue to hate untill they finally do whats sensible and mind their own buisness....this is a room for a better understanding of islam not politics, if you have any questions about islam feel free to ask...but i am not going in to a political discussion since i am tired of debating over the same things again and again

Originally posted by mehmetinoglu
your right, i did make a typing mistake, what i meant was THREAD not threat.... :)

yes that is a picture of the sultanahmet masjid (blue mosque)...

i am a kurd and i live in europe (denmark)...to be honest with you all muslims hate the american goverment and their foreign policy, since it will take a long time to write it all down i will post later why muslims hate the american goverment...

If you will notice in the post before you wrote this, you will see I asked you how non american muslim's viewed american muslims, not the american government. You brought politics into the picture. If you were not ready to talk politics then you should not have brought this up.

ok since you insist....this is only what has happend in iraq, since it will take a lot of time to write down other countries that has suffered due to american direct and indirectly interreferrence...
after the people of iran finaly got rid of the corrupt dictating shah (the same dictator was strongly supported by the american goverment), the people of iran quickly cut the relationships with america, calling them the great satan...so therefor america saw them as their enemies and helped saddam hussein (who was a close ally at that time) against iran in the iraq-iran war...(their help was sattelite photos, weapons including chemical weapons (which they sold before,during and after the gassing of the kurds), they sold the sattelite photos and weapons to both sides secretly) the result was the death of over 1 million people) "israel" by the way supported iran in the war....
when saddam planned to attack kuwait, america was fully aware of it, but did not interffere. later they came and freed kuwait as the great "liberators", (and got their oil REAL CHEAP) then they sanctioned iraq, repeadly bombing the water and electricalpower stations (many who where no where near military installations) with out electric power iraq could only clean their water by water purifying tablet,but they did not have these tablets and the americans through their sanctions and deliberatly bombings of water and electrical stations, made sure that they did not get any of these tablets, resulting the death of over 500000 IRAQI CHILDREN...it is estimated that over 1,500000 iraqis have died during and after the 90's....
there are a lot of more information on this issue, i am sure that you can find it for your self....
this was only iraq

I insisted nothing at all. You profess but i am not going in to a political discussion since i am tired of debating over the same things again and again yet you have only made 10 posts on these forums. I sincerely was not trying to be confrontational, but maybe im too blunt a poster to be having dialogue with you. You seem a little too sensitive to be representing all of Islam IMO. Or maybe you are a perfect example.

Either way, i wish you well in life and i will try to learn more about Islam from other sources.

I have a question for you. Could you possibly explain the theory of heaven and hell in the Muslim religion. To my previous ignorance/knowledge, I believed Christianity to be the only religion on the planet that believed in a fire/brimstone/REAL hell.

to havok
true i havnt debated yet (i did it in other rooms) and i did wrote that i would post what the american goverment has done since we hate, but i said later in that post...all in good time..if i am going to post something like that i need time to gather enough resorcess....

Another question, do you hate the folks in our millitary?

in islam we are taught that after you die, you will wait in your grave untill the day of judgement comes...in the grave you will either be punished if you where an evil man or a disbeliever...the punishment is that your grave gets smaller and very dark, the time will be very long in the grave.. you can fell the animals eating you flesh and other nasty things...if you lived as a good muslim your grave will become very large and there will be a light (a light that resembles the light of the full moone) you will be able to smell the smell of paradice (which is a wonderfull smell) in the time in the grave passes very quickly...then when the day of judgement comes all people comes back from the dead....they will be judged at the weigh where even an atom of a evil deed or an atom of good deed will be weighed...all those people who dont believe in the one God will be sent for hell, no matter how much good they have done in their life... all muslims will then travel across a bridge that is slimmer as a piece of hair and sharper then the sharpest sword, under the bridge lies the fires of hell...the first to travel will be the prophets, then then other good muslims...a bad muslim will fall down and be picked up by very sharp hooks and then continue the travel, fall picked up and so on and so on untill he reaches paradice a very bad muslim who has lived a life full of sin, will fall down to hell, but will later enter paradice after he/she has recieved the punishment (a year in hell is like 70 years on earth, i heard that the worst muslims could end up in hell for over 400000 years before entering paradice)...in hell the people are constantly punished in many ways for example their are burned alive, then their skin is made anew and you will be burned again and so and so on, the food in hell will give the person unbearble pain in the stomach, and there will be water thats like poison...there are many other ways to be punished each one suits the sin the person has made...before entering paradice the muslim will be given a drink that is whiter then milk after drinking that he will no longer feel hunger or thirst again, when in paradice all people will get the same hight, size and the same age..the hight will be around 30 meters and the size 5 meters, the age will be 33 and that never changes..also the people will only have hair three places the head, the eyebrowns, and hair on the eyelids...the eyes will be adjusted to the paradice, with normal sight a person would be blinded, in paradice you will only feel the good things and always be happy (meaning you will never be sick, have to visit the toilet ect.) you can eat and drink in paradice, not for hunger but for pleasure...a muslim man will get women who created in paradice for them who will be virgins and after the intercourse they will become virgins again, the muslim women will become more beautifull and more pure then any angel...

yes we hate the soldiers...your soldiers are not forced to join the military, they join of there own free will and have the right to decide for them selves what they will do and what they will not do....

You use the word "hate" so easily. Given the terroristic events of the past 20+ years in which so many Muslims have participated in and died doing, it should be apparent that perhaps something is amiss in the teachings, or at the very least the interpertations of those teachings by the religious instructors. Yours is a faith that does not appear to teach compassion, love, and tolerance of others.

go and look up for the word wahabias or wahabis...
find some information about islam before you accuse it...your goverment has killed more innocent people then the terrorist ever haved...do i hold christianty responsible? No!

You use the word "hate" so easily. Given the terroristic events of the past 20+ years in which so many Muslims have participated in and died doing, it should be apparent that perhaps something is amiss in the teachings, or at the very least the interpertations of those teachings by the religious instructors. Yours is a faith that does not appear to teach compassion, love, and tolerance of others.
Given the past 2000 years of torture, genocide, secret dealings, the christian religion apparently doesn't teach love, compassion and tolerance. Given the murderous behavior of the Celts 3000 years ago, their religion obviously didn't teach love compassion, given the fact that the Hindu's placed many people lower than dirt, they murdered disidents, they didn't teach compassion, given the budhist regime in China which murdered political dissidents and people of different religions, they didn't teach love or compassion either. Es, I would love for you to give me a religion that during sometime in it's history didn't murder hundreds of thousands, maybe even millions, of people, because they dissagreed. You look towards the "leaders" of these religions and then say they are all like it. Mohamed taught people to hate, just as much as Jesus did. It is the twisting of the religion that people of powerful positions do to it. Why don't you just take a look at the conditions that muslims in the middle east live in. Why do they hate the US? Because, the United States have revered some, placed others worse than dirt, and then turned around when it looked politically correct. The United States government doesn't give a shit about doing what is right.

The muslim belief of hell looks just as bad as the modern Christian one... Well, at least you don't stay in hell for eternity for doing something wrong.

no at least we dont but 400000 years multiplied with 70 years is still a Very long time....hope i dont end there for even one second:)

Now I'm not sure, but I wanted to check with you on this matter. I've heard from sources that say that the Koran used over in the Middle East by fundamentalists and the Koran sold here in America are different. I've heard that the Koran sold here in the states leaves out many important details about Jihad and some of the more controversial topics of Islam in order to gain more political acceptance. I was just wondering if you have heard anything about this or even if you know if this is true at all.

Originally posted by Blibblob
You use the word "hate" so easily. Given the terroristic events of the past 20+ years in which so many Muslims have participated in and died doing, it should be apparent that perhaps something is amiss in the teachings, or at the very least the interpertations of those teachings by the religious instructors. Yours is a faith that does not appear to teach compassion, love, and tolerance of others.
Given the past 2000 years of torture, genocide, secret dealings, the christian religion apparently doesn't teach love, compassion and tolerance. Given the murderous behavior of the Celts 3000 years ago, their religion obviously didn't teach love compassion, given the fact that the Hindu's placed many people lower than dirt, they murdered disidents, they didn't teach compassion, given the budhist regime in China which murdered political dissidents and people of different religions, they didn't teach love or compassion either. Es, I would love for you to give me a religion that during sometime in it's history didn't murder hundreds of thousands, maybe even millions, of people, because they dissagreed. You look towards the "leaders" of these religions and then say they are all like it. Mohamed taught people to hate, just as much as Jesus did. It is the twisting of the religion that people of powerful positions do to it. Why don't you just take a look at the conditions that muslims in the middle east live in. Why do they hate the US? Because, the United States have revered some, placed others worse than dirt, and then turned around when it looked politically correct. The United States government doesn't give a shit about doing what is right. First of all, you are not a muslim. Secondly, this post was not directed towards you. And lastly, the question has been asked twice of mehmet who obviously has no spin for this answer or he/she would have given one. How about letting the person who was asked the damn question answer for him/herself? :rolleyes:

now the quran has always been the same in arabic (which is the only way to read and understand the quran)..the quran can not be translated, (it is impossible, research for yourself if you don believe it) so there are a number of explanations of the quran by a number of scholars but also a number of non muslims (many of them writes deliberatly wrong explanations giving those who read it a wrong impression) in different languages...
in palestine the zionist tried to show that they accepted islam as a religion so they started handing out qurans, but they deliberatly left out one surah, (maybe trying to pacify islam?) the muslims discoverd this immedeatly...now i have heard that the american goverment are trying to pacify islam by creating a socalled "modern islam", i dont know if they have deliberatly changed the quran like the zionist did (i doubt it since there a number of scholars in the usa, helping the muslim there).. most of the muslims who live in america are not arabs and cant read arabic, so they would not know if they are reading a allowed explanation of a scholar or some quran fabricated by the zionist...i will ask around to some of the muslims who live in america if this is true...(but i really doubt it) also there is no fundamental quran, the quran has always been the same, and the arabic context still the same from the far east of the world to the far west ( you can take the quran in china and compare in a quran from canada the context are the same to every little detail)

i have answered the question, but since you did not read what i posted (i posted that you should find some information about the wahabias) i will explain...the wtc attack where done by wahabias, a sect formed by the aid of the british in saudi arabia about 250 years ago this radical sect believes that they are the only muslims left accusing others who believe like them are not muslim (even those in the past, calling the prophets non muslims then, thats enough for them to be declared non muslims) ...in fact the wahabias have said a number of things that goes against islam, so that all scholars acknowledge that they are not muslims, this information is not known by many muslims (especially the young) and the non muslim do not know this fact at all....if you take a deeper look in to the quran (or an explantion from a respected scholar) you will find that the quran say that the people of the book (meaning jews and christians are to respected) and that jihad is only allowed when ones country/land/home/life/ is invaded....also the scholars agree that the suicide bombing are wrong since it, guess what suicide...the quran clearly forbid this, but some socalled scholars interpert the verses a little differently telling the young muslims that it is ok to blow them selves up instead of taking arms....

First of all, you are not a muslim. Secondly, this post was not directed towards you. And lastly, the question has been asked twice of mehmet who obviously has no spin for this answer or he/she would have given one. How about letting the person who was asked the damn question answer for him/herself?
And if you look at the part that I quoted, the reply wasn't "directed" towards you.

So you hate the government, you hate the millitary, you must hate the vets? If you hate the vets you must also hate the sons and daughters of the vets which would narrow that down to almost every American? Why not just say you hate Americans?

there are around 300 million americans...do i know them all ? No..
put the goverment the vets and the military together and there will still be hundres of millions americans left that i dont hate...i dont generalise people

Yes you do, you said you don't like folks in the millitary. Some of those folks thought they were doing others a favor by getting rid of a torturing SOB. You have generalized alot, those in the government don't all think alike, and those in the millitary don't all think alike.

if you want to liberate a country there are numerous african countries who suffer far more then iraq used too....(no offence but is because of most african nations dont have the naturel riches that your goverment is interrested in?)

saddam was a bad man yes, but cause of your goverment actions 1,5 million iraqis have died, is that what you call doing a favour? all the iraqis i know hated saddam but they hate the american goverment and military more, they also say after speaking to their families who lives in iraq that everything has gotten worse since the american military came...and a man like saddam couldnt keep the power forever....

i repeat again i donrt generalise people

You just did it again{generalized} So what Sadam was doing was better then what we did. Torturing little kids, hooking electrodes to women privates, killing millions, etc...? Once again America is not the only country that saw Sadam as a threat, the U.N. was right along with us pointing fingers.

the war happend with out the un approvel, and saddam didnt kill millions but thousands, what happens in a muslim country is not the buisnness of the american goverment...i know very few americans but i dont hate them so how can i generalise? torture also happens in countries your goverment support

in my 7th post i posted what a muslim MUST believe in order for the muslim to keep being a muslim...here is what the muslim MUST not say/think/do

i will start by the saying..
1.if a muslim (1) calls another muslim (2) a jew or christian or a follower of other religion them muslim (1) is no longer a muslim and has to reenter islam immedeatly
2.taking the name of Allah (st) or insulting the name of Allah (st)
3.if a muslim deliberatly say "if Allah (st) commanded me to do this, i wouldnt do it" or something similar, he is no longer a muslim
4.if a muslim think that Allah (st) is being fair to him he is no longer a muslim
5. if a muslim say that something happened with out the will of Allah (st)
there so many sayings that is almost impossible to narrow it down but these such give examples

what a muslim must not think
1.the muslim must not doubt in any of the things i posted in my 7th post.
2. to think that the universe has no endings
3. think that something forbidden is allowed
4. or vice versa
5. to not believe or doubt in the five pillars
6. to doubt in the words of the quran
7. to write a letter in the quran and believe it belongs there
8. to think there will other prophets after the prophets Muhammad (saws)
also here is it very diffuclut to narrow it down

what a muslim must not do
1. to throw ( i dont know the word for it) them selves under to a statue, the son, the moon and other such things
2. the throw them selves under to a person or another living being meaning to worship them.. to throw them selves under for a person meaning to great them with respect is not allowed but it doesnt take you out of islam.
3. to deliberatly mistreat the quran and other things which contains words of quran or similar

these were a few examples of what the muslim must not say/think/do

Originally posted by mehmetinoglu
...i know very few americans but i dont hate so how can i generalise?

:confused: You say you don't hate but in other post you say how you hate, which is it?

GENERALIZE-1. to render general rather than specific. 2. to draw inferences or a general conclusion{from} 3. to speak or think in generalities.

When you say you hate the folks in our millitary because of what is going on, is a generalization of everyones thought in the millitary.

I'm not trying to be an a** here but you are talking in circles you came on saying how much you hate the government. Then I asked about the millitary and vets. You keep throughing the word hate out an awfull lot for someone that does not hate? I am just trying to learn if you are another fanatic that hates America or if you are truely practicing what you preach?

Another question; There is a "so called american soldier" that was giving info out about our tanks to the enemy how would you look at him?

so tell me mad dog should i love a country that is killing my brothers and sisters?

if your goverment wants us muslim to stop hating them then they must follow three steps...and think closely what does your country have to loos if did these three steps

step 1. pull out all of the troops out of the muslim lands
step 2. stop supporting "israel" in economical and military way
step 3. dont interferre with muslim countries, like installing dictators

now whats better for your goverment that 1,3 billion people hates because they do the opposite of these three steps or that the same 1,3 billion will be your friends if you do follow these three steps

when i say i hate the american military for causing death and destruction i hate all of the soldiers since they join by their free will and are not forced to do it, then they are full aware of their actions....

i do hate many things the devil the jinns the zionist and so and so on, what i dont hate is people that i dont know and people who dont support my enemies...

Originally posted by mehmetinoglu
so tell me mad dog should i love a country that is killing my brothers and sisters?

Did you love Sadam? Too your question, {country that is killing my b&S} sounds like you hate America/American's. What are you doing to get us out, are you joining groups that will speak up and say "we have it under control can you leave now"?

if your goverment wants us muslim to stop hating them then they must follow three steps...and think closely what does your country have to loos if did these three steps

First will another "hater" be put in charge, also lets not forget you are not the only ones that lost loved ones. Many of us here have lost loved ones to help you get better lives.

step 1. pull out all of the troops out of the muslim lands
step 2. stop supporting "israel" in economical and military way
step 3. dont interferre with muslim countries, like installing dictators

{1} If we pull out would you act like civilized humans or would the next richest toturer take over?

{2} Fine, you might also want to tell this to other countries while your at it.

{3}I don't believe it is our responsibility to put people in charge of others, but once again we do not act alone. Can you put someone in charge that will not terrorize your country?

now whats better for your goverment that 1,3 billion people hates because they do the opposite of these three steps or that the same 1,3 billion will be your friends if you do follow these three steps

That's all fine and dandy in Disney Land but how long before help is asked for? What happens when another Sadam hits and you come crying to us/UN?

when i say i hate the american military for causing death and destruction i hate all of the soldiers since they join by their free will and are not forced to do it, then they are full aware of their actions....

Well that is your opinion and it is your business, but try to look at it from the US soldiers side. He/she see's a man toturing, and killing women and children and wants to put a stop to it. The soldier feels he has helped free those that were being tortured.

i do hate many things the devil the jinns the zionist and so and so on, what i dont hate is people that i dont know and people who dont support my enemies...

So I ask again, do you hate America, 80%+ agreed with going over and taking Sadam out?

first of all we the muslim have never asked for your help...i will repeat the people of iraq even those who fleed the country never asked for help...(off course you got the one or two "muslims" who think america is doing the right thing)

so stop preaching that we need your help most muslim countries have a civilasation thats over 3000 years old, who are you to come and tell us how to live? we muslims dont care one bit how you americans live as long as you dont interferre with us...

no i dont love saddam, and just like the people of iran suffered greatly before they threw out the corrupt shah, so would the people of iraq have thrown saddam out...

i will repeat you country has no right to decide what another country do (except when they attack your country or an ally)
i think i know over a 100 arabs (with very different personality, most of them dont even pray the daily prayer) from different arab countries they agree on two things, saddam was bad, america are worse...also i know people from somalia and afghanistan and guess what they hate the american goverment too...

Well I understand you don't want us there, that's fine with me and I can also see you "hate "Americans and that is also fine with me. You proved what I had thought{in my own mind} thank you for your answer's and time.

Originally posted by mehmetinoglu
1,5 million iraqis have died, is that what you call doing a favour?

It's really sad that anyone had to die. However I think I have to point out that the 1.5 million number isn't considered accurate by any reliable news source. I just think if we're going to have an intelligent discussion about the issue we should avoid using unnecessarily inflamatory information.

how many died in Iraq? (http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2003/05/03/MN98747.DTL)

i was not talking about recent war only but the period from the beginning of the 90's 'till today and the number still grows...
and it is estimated that around 1,5 million dead iraqis have been killed either through military actions (which includes bombing of water and electrical power stations) or sanctions

i have posted the number also before the place where you qouted, where i gave an explanation

in islam we believe that not only do your mind and hearth sin but also different parts of the body you use

lets start with the feet

the sins of the feet are....
1. walking in the intend to commit a sin or to hurt a muslim for no reason or to walk in a court room and lie to the judge about the muslim
2. walking in the intend to kill a muslim with out a case that justifes it
3. the run away from a duty, like running away from punishment, running away from debts, running away from the raising of ones children, running away obeying, running away from your parents
4. the arrogent walk
5. every form of walk that prevents a person to fullfill his duty
6. to lift your feet higher then the quran, or if the quran is lower then your feet when your sitting
7. to deliberatly walk across where someone is praying

later i will post the sins of the ears

the sins of the ears
1. eavesdropping
2. to listen to a Mizmar ( a flute like instrument), the Tunbur (a string instrument) and other forbidden instruments
3. listening to gossip, unless you heard it against your will and hate it.

the sins of the eyes
1. to look at a woman who is an Adjnabiyyah (meaning a person that is not Mahram, (Mahram is a person you can never marry because they belong to family this includes parents sisters,brothers, aunts, uncles, from the fathers side and the mothers side, parents in law, and the woman/women who stilled (giving milk through breast feeding)and cousins from the fathers side) with lust, regardless of which part of the body you look at...you also sin if you look at any other part of the body, except the hands and face (but if you look with lust at them too it is a sin too), with or with out lust.
2. to look at a man betwenn the the hole in the belly and the knees...and the rest of the body if you look with lust
3. to look at the private parts of men and women
4. to expose the private parts or the bottom when your alone for no reason. it is not a sin too look at a Mahram betwenn the belly hole and the knees (unless you look with lust)
5. to look at a muslim with disgrace
6. to look in the house of another person with out his approvel, or to look at something that another person has hidden.

Originally posted by mehmetinoglu
or sanctions


Well, the sanctions were called "oil for food." Saddam took the money and built more palaces. How can that be our fault if stopping him from continuing that behavior is also wrong?

I have a question for you:

In the US, there is a very large proportion of people (mostly athiests) who feel strongly against Christianity. Is this the case in Islamic countries? Or do most people born in Islamic countries become devoted to the religion?

no it is not like the the usa (funny i always had the impression that americans where strong believers in christianity)
The muslim loves islam, and most of them are devout followers praying their daily prayers and following the five pillars..(even those muslims who dont pray the daily prayers, loves islam and would rather die then give it up)....you see islam means everything for a muslim, even in a secular state like turkey, most of the turkish people are still devout followers of islam...(all though in western parts of turkey due to western culture some young turks are acting like europeans)...wether it is a muslim country or not, the muslim always put islam first and anything else second.....

that is a common misunderstanding of what happend during the sanctions (yes the name was called oil for food) and the iraqis did get oil for food, but they did not recieve any medicines, the usa did not even send school pencils that the iraqi schools requested....the death of so many people during the sanctions was because of the lack of clean water due to the bombings of the water stations and the electrical station (which was bombed again and again , allthough it was not even close to a military target) the us/uk led sanction also refused to send the tablet needed to purify the water, thats why over 500000 died...look at the un humanitarian report if you dont believe me....

Entirely to rigid for my taste. No faith should keep its' members under such strict rules.

why? is there anything wrong with them? do they not lead to a person to become a better man/woman?

tell me what so negative about it?

Sanctions were imposed by the UN. The US & Britan helped to enforce them.

The Koran can only be read in Arabic and it is not possible to translate it? Even more reason to distrust it.

Originally posted by mehmetinoglu
why? is there anything wrong with them? do they not lead to a person to become a better man/woman?

tell me what so negative about it?

The rules are not wrong in and of themselves, but rules will be used by good people to get better and evil ones to control others and commit evil deeds. The people who flew the planes into the World Trade center professed belief in those rules you say lead people to become better, it's all in how you interpret them. I believe that the only thing that leads a person to become a better individual is an internal desire to do so, not any external set of rules developed by someone else.

And as for the U.S. being a christian nation, I would have to say that it's difficult to tell sometimes. Polls consistently show that when asked, a majority of people in the U.S. "say" they are Christian but a majority also reports that they do not go to church regularly. Tough to interpret results like that, but I guess the best way to put it would be to say that we are typically not as "Christian" as the average Muslim is "Muslim".

the Un doesnt have any real power when the US/UK can veto....

"Britain will veto any UN attempt to weaken sanctions against Iraq ''for so long as Saddam Hussein remains in power'', John Major told the Scottish Conservative Party conference.

is sending water purifying tablets is going to make iraq more dangerous ?

i would advice you to read this (and if you think it is some muslim propoganda, then the answer is no it is not, this report is made by americans)

http://www.american.edu/projects/mandala/TED/iraqsanc.htm

the quran is arabic so it can be preserved in it pureform since, although impossible, translations would contain errors and would lose its pure essence

i have allready posted that those who did the wtc attack where wahabia's, and i have allready posted what wahabia's are about, and that they are not muslims

the sins of the belly are
1. eating something that was bought by Riba (intresst), Maks (tax), Gash (robbery), Sariqah (theft) and every other form that is forbidden
2. drinking khamr (alcohol)
the punishment for the drinker is for the free 40 whips, and for the slave 20 whips...the Khalifah can raise the number of whips to deter people from drinking
3. the consume Muskir (anything that changes your mental state)
nadjis (unclean) and Mustaqdhar (disgusting)
4. to consume something that belongs to an Yatim (orfin) (i am not sure if the word is correct, the meaning is a child who has no parents) or to consume something that belongs to a waaf (charity fund), against the organisers from the charity
5. to consume something that the other gives because of embarresment, with out his approvel

Originally posted by mehmetinoglu
i have allready posted that those who did the wtc attack where wahabia's, and i have allready posted what wahabia's are about, and that they are not muslims

I'm willing to bet that the Wahabi's wouldn't agree with you about their muslimhood.

Just so you know Mehmet, I'm an atheist. I have no problem with the idea of religion, but I do think that the "church" has taken some great ideas and corrupted them to serve its own agenda. I'm sure this has occured with islam as well.

As to your later posts about the Q'uran being published only in Arabic to avoid having it changed during translation, I must ask your beliefs regarding whether the "rules" published in the Q'uran are just as valid now as when the book was first written. I note the following rule:

2. drinking khamr (alcohol)
the punishment for the drinker is for the free 40 whips, and for the slave 20 whips...the Khalifah can raise the number of whips to deter people from drinking

In this rule you mention that the punishment differs for free men and slaves. Does this mean that the Q'uran permits the ownership of slaves? Do you think that the ownership of slaves should be permissible today?

P.S. the word you were looking for in your previous post is orphan meaning a child who is parentless.

first of all thank you for the orphan word :)

now i have not studied the concept of slavery and it will proberly take a little time before i can answer this question..what i do know about slavery is that it is ok to take slaves from someone who you are in war with (note: war is only allowed in selfdefence)
but you must release them as soon as the war is over...

the rules in the quran are just as valid today as they where 1400 years ago...

the wahabias is a sect vilepagan they where formed by a crasy man with the aid of the british to undermine mind the powers of the Osmanli (ottoman) rulers in saudi arabia...there power and number has grown a lot, but they are still not muslims and even if they where (which they will never be unless they change their ideology) there numberes wouldnt even be 2% of the entire 1,3 billion muslim population

Hey mehmetinoglu, could you include a description of the pictures you're posting? I'd be interested in knowing what I'm looking at.

i will start from post 1
1. the blue masjid (mosque)
2. tokyo masjid
3. malaysian masjid
4. marrocan misjid
5. a different malaysian masjid
6. dome of rock (al kuds masjid)
7. picture from a website www.islam-guide.com
8. us soldier handcuffing iraqi girls during a raid
9. award winning photo of a POW(?) with his son in iraq
10. an iraqi father holding dead daughter after us bombing
11. zionist soldier pointing rifle against a palestinian mother and her children
12. blue masjid and the aya sofia museum
13. same picture as in post 8
14. same picture as in post 10
15. grave of Prophet Yousha (saws)
16. smaller photo of blue masjid
17. muslim girls in france protest against the hijab (head scarf) ban
18. a nasa photo of the destruction of a galaxy, i posted cause the quran mentions the destruction of worlds and how it looks like i will post the surah (chapter) and ayah (verse) later
19. same picture as in post 8
20. saddam and rumsfeld shaking hands in 1983
21. grave of abu bakr (prophet Muhammad (saws) best friend)
22. another zionist soldier aiming his rifle at a child as a palestinian family walks by
23. same picture as in post 20
24. same picture as in post 8
25. swords of the prophet Muhammad (saws)
26. grave of Sala ah din
27. picture of shayhk abdullah al harariyy
28. same picture as in post 27
29. prophet Muhammad (saws) clothes
30. iraqi mother with her sick baby
31. iraqi children
32. prophet Muhammad (saws) masjid
33. the inside of al kuds masjid

3. the consume Muskir (anything that changes your mental state)
nadjis (unclean) and Mustaqdhar (disgusting)
Didn't the arabs invent Hashish? Or does that not count because it doesn't go into the stomache?

first of all hashish is 5000 years old used firstly according to the historical information in china....
hashish is not allowed to smoke eat or similar...you can eat hashish by inserting them in food like cakes...
maybe you are refering to an assasin sect during the crusades one of their trademarks was the extreme consuming of hashish,
but to make it clear hashish is forbidden the use of drugs is not allowed in islam, and someone who does will be punished according to the sharia law..

the sins of the hearth are
1. to do a good deed only so other people will praise/respect you. the good deed is canceled.
2. to do a good deed, but forget that Allah (st) gave you the strenght to do the good deed
3. to doubt in the existence of Allah (st) this sins is big thats it is kuffur (it is disbelief) a person who doubt in Allah (st) is no longer a muslim
4. to be certain that Allah (st) will not punish you
5. to give up the mercy of Allah (st)
6. the arrogance towards others, meaning that say something that lowers other people
7. al hiqd (hate), meaning to hate another muslim for no good reason
8. to envy
9. to give some money or something similar in the intend of using it later, meaning that you say to the person you helped "did i not gave this on that day" the reward for the gift is canceled
10. to asume that Allah (st) wont forgive a sin (note: the only sin that Allah (st) does not forgive is the associating others next to Allah (st))
11. to think bad about a muslim
12. to deny al qadar (i dont know what it is called destiny perhaps ?)
13. to be happy of your own sin or to be happy when other people sin
14. al ghadr (i think it is called backstabbing ? ) even to a non muslim, meaning to invite him home and offer safety and then kill him
15. to hurt a muslim through cheating
16. to hate any of the first followers of the prophet Muhammad (saws)
17. to be greedy
18. al hirs (to strongly want money and other things like proberty in order to do something evil
19. to be disrespectfull of islamic symbols
20. to loathe the islamic symbols, the duties, the sins, the Quran, the islamic knowledge, the paradice and hell


picture of ortaköy masjid (mosque)

Originally posted by mehmetinoglu
i will start from post 1
1. the blue masjid (mosque)
33. the inside of al kuds masjid

Wow, very thorough! :)

here is the surah (chapter) and ayah (verse) about the picture in post 18...surah ar rahman (chapter 55) ayah 37 "And when the heaven splitteth asunder and becometh rosy like red hide"

the sins of the tounge are..
1. to talk behind a muslims back, about something that embarresed the muslim, or something that the muslim hate
2. an namimah (to make to people hate each other, by going to one of the them and say that this person said this and this about your for example mother, then go the second person and say this person said this and this about your for example father)
3. to lie
4. to falsly accusing someone, the punishment for his is 100 whips for the free and 50 whips for the slave
5. to curse the followers of Muhammad (saws)
6. Schahadat az-Zur (to falsly testifie)
7. convincing a person that he has no money to pay his debt, even though you are able to pay it back
8. to speak bad words, to curse and loathe a muslim
9. to lie about Allah (st) and his messenger Muhammad (saws)
10. wrong assumption
11. the Bid^iyy divorce (meaning that the man divorces his wife when she has her period, or to divorce her just after or during when she has cleaned her self)
12. adh-dhihar (when a man says to his wife that he will not have intercourse with her, if the man does not divorce her immediatly he must immediatly do the Kaffarah. Kaffarah is: to realise healthy mentally stabil slave, if he cant do that he must two months, if he cant do that he must give 60 people who are in need each a mudd. Mudd is a handfull of korn)
13. to read the quran wrong, which can lead to changes of the context of the quran
14. to ask for the hand of someone who is allready engaged
15. to declare a fatwa, with our knowledge
16. to teach and learn something that can lead to evil things
17. not to judge after the sharia
18. to scream and over mourn at a grave or body
19. to say something that leads to a send or prevents someone to fullfill his duty
20. every word that loathe the islamic religion, any of the 124000 prophets (saws), a respected scholar, the quran or an islamic symbol (except the scholars all others are kuffar, and a person who loathes any of these is no longer a muslim and must reenter islam)
21. to play on a forbidden instrument
22. to speak bad words for no reason
23. to not tell a muslim about the dutyknowledge when he/she ask for it
24. to laugh at a muslim cause of the release of gas in the rear end
25. to laugh arrogantly at a muslim
26. to not greet a muslim after he/she has greeted you
27. to kiss someone, who you are not allowed to kiss

there are more but these are good examples


palestine

Originally posted by mehmetinoglu

21. to play on a forbidden instrument

Why would a certain musical instrument be forbidden?

24. to laugh at a muslim cause of the release of gas in the rear end

Ok, I gotta ask...what's the punishment for breaking this rule? Why would this be important enough to make a formal rule against it?

25. to laugh arrogantly at a muslim
26. to not greet a muslim after he/she has greeted you

I ask about these last two just as examples. Both of these rules while they make sense, also require you to know whether or not the person you're dealing with is a muslim. How would you neccessarily know this?

Also, why do these rules always seem to protect only muslims? Is it ok to laugh arrogantly at someone who is not muslim?

i dont know about the musical instruments since i hardly listen to music, i will ask someone who has more knowledge....

there is no punishment in the sharia for laughing when someone releases gas..to release gas is a natural thing, but it is still embarrasing, to laugh at a person who which has done this natural but embarrasing thing is not good, since you hurt his/hers feelings...

when a muslim (1) greets another muslim (2) by saying salaamin alaikum muslim (2) must greet him back with the words walaikum salaam or walaikum salaam wa rahmatullah wa barakatuh...if muslim (2) does not greet back he has sinned...(this rule is only for the salaamin alaikum greeting, greetings like hi, hello, salaam does not apply)

it depends who is the non muslim, if it is some poor man it is a sin to laugh at him arrogantly..
if it is people like george bush there is no sin, since he is a enemy of islam


picture of Shayhk Muhammad Bashar al-Faidi

about the slavery issue

the quran has not abolished slavery, but there are rules in islam about slavery that will in the end lead to abolishment of slavery..

a free born muslim can never become a slave
only children of slaves and non muslim prisinors can be slaves...
the slave has many rights, including the right (which also include his own private buisness) to work of his slavery and become a free man, the price for freedom is settled by the slave and the slave owner and price must be kept...a muslim who kills a slave with no just reason will also be killed..a muslim must not part the children of the slaves away from their parents...prophet Muhammad (saws) said that you should be kind to slaves like you where kind to children...the punishment for slaves is 50% lower then for a free muslim



surah al falak

A question:

Those rules, are all Muslims expected to have them memorized and performed perfectly? For example in Buddhism, to my knowledge, there are 360 things a serious monk must not do, but those rules are hardly expected to be practiced by the layman Buddhist. The average follower of this strict religion is only expected to be able to not break about 5~10 of core rules. Even very high-ranked monk hardly is able to not break a rule. Perhaps only very devoted, priest-level Muslim is expected to follow all the rules you just described?

no all muslims are expected to follow these rules....if they dont then they are sinfull muslims and if they really dont pay attention what they say or do they are no longer muslims...only with a good excuse/reason is the muslim not responsible for his/hers sin...in islam the rules are for everybody, you dont have to be a scholar to follow these rules, if i am not mistaking there should be over hundreds of millions muslims who if not all (but thats only cause they are not aware of them) follow almost all these rules...being a muslim is not like joining a club where you are member for life, you have to know things in order to stay a muslim and in order to be a good muslim...


picture of shayhk al faida

Originally posted by mehmetinoglu
no all muslims are expected to follow these rules....if they dont then they are sinfull muslims and if they really dont pay attention what they say or do they are no longer muslims...only with a good excuse/reason is the muslim not responsible for his/hers sin...in islam the rules are for everybody, you dont have to be a scholar to follow these rules, if i am not mistaking there should be over hundreds of millions muslims who if not all (but thats only cause they are not aware of them) follow almost all these rules...being a muslim is not like joining a club where you are member for life, you have to know things in order to stay a muslim and in order to be a good muslim...


picture of shayhk al faida

I'd like to thank you for being so gracious and thorough in answering all of the questions that people have asked. It is very interesting to learn more about the religion of Islam.

I find it hard to imagine what it would be like for the average person to live their day-to-day lives while attempting to live within all of the rules you have mentioned so far, and I'm sure there are many, many rules you have not even touched upon yet.

Forgive me Mehmet, but as an atheist I'm a bit of a skeptic by nature. It would seem to me that it would be impossible for an average muslim to not break several rules every day, so I'm assuming there are ways to atone for ones transgressions.

No disrespect intended Mehmet, but a lot of these rules appear to have nothing whatsoever to do with God or religion, but rather seem to a fine method of controlling even the most mundane aspects of a persons life. It seems, from the perspective of this infidel, that like Christianity and the Christian church, that while Islam contains some fine ideas, these ideas have been taken by the church and twisted to further the agenda of that church, and are used more to control people rather than to further the cause of God.

I find it hard to understand why God would care what musical instruments we might play when we create something of beauty, like music, or why God would encourage us to enslave one another, or why the cruel punishments inflicted under sharia would be allowed by a "merciful" God.

Also I must say that a great number of the "rules" you have posted seem to be biased very heavily towards muslims.

Examples:

15. to hurt a muslim through cheating
25. to laugh arrogantly at a muslim
7. al hiqd (hate), meaning to hate another muslim for no good reason
5. to curse the followers of Muhammad (saws)
11. to think bad about a muslim

Whether this is true under the tenets of Islam or not, you give the impression that these are only transgressions when perpetrated against Muslims and if the victim is... say a Christian, then it's ok to do these things.

How do Muslims live under such a system of rules and yet retain some sense of individuality? Does not this rigid system tend to stifle creativity and the artistic impulses of Muslims? What do Muslims laugh about? Are there Muslim stand-up comedians? If you know of a good Muslim joke I would love to hear one.

lets starts with the jokes...jokes are mostly based on stories that are not true, and therefore most jokes are lies, a muslim is forbidden to lie....you can tell funny stories that are true, but note that these stories dont hurt a muslims feeling...even the prophet Muhammad (saws) told some funny stories to make his followers laugh, cause laughing is good for the soul...we dont really have many standup comedians, and these comedians that are Never talks about religion...we do have funny movie stars, who stars in films, that are based on legends and true stories, or simply just a play written...

the rules are there to make the muslim become a better person, to help the help the muslim is his/hers great Jihad against the Jinns and shaitan (the devil)...music is only allowed to praise Allah (st), but most muslim countries dont follow this rule, so "creativity" (creativity can lead to kuffur, like many songs in the west do) is still there...some of these rules is in the Quran, and therefor Allah (st) words to us, the rest comes from the haddiths, haddith are the sayings and doings of the prophet Muhammad (saws)...

one of the main goals of islam vile pagan is the unity of mankind, since the end of the khilafa rule, culturel differences have lead muslim countries battle muslim countries...by having these rules we become closer to our fellow man/woman

and about the slavery issue, there is almost no slavery in any of the muslim countries so by following the rules of slavery it has becomed almost oblished...

the muslim must also take no non muslims as friends, they can deal with them, answer their questions and other stuff, but they are nor allowed to become friends with them...that is why the rules are mainly for muslims (but your are still not allow to kill, hurt, or cheat a non muslim with out a just reason)



surah al nass

the sins of the hands
1. to steal (if the stolen thing is more worth then 1/4 of a dinar the punishment is cutting the right hand off, the second time the left foot, the third time the left hand, the fifth time the right foot)
2. to rob
3. to take taxes
4. to take something from the warbounty before the dividing
5. to hit someone with out a just case
6. to give or take money or gifts that is meant for bribery
7. to burn animals, unless they do lots of damage and there is no other way to stop them
8. to mutilate a animal
9. playing with dices or other similar "luck" things, wether it is with money or not, this includes children games (games like chess or similar where you have to use your brain is allowed)
10. to play forbidden music instruments
11. to paint, sculp or something similar, something that has a soul
12. to write something that is forbidden
13. to delibaretly touch a adjnabiyah (see post 5 page 4 for explanation) with lust even if it is the same sex, or a person who is mahram (see post 5 page 4 for explanation)
14. to kill...
there are three ways to kill, 1. is to kill deliberatly, 2. to kill undeliberatly, 3. to kill not undeliberatly but some thing that looks like it, example muslim (1) sticks a tiny needle in muslim (2) neck, just for fun, normally a person wouldnt die from it, but muslim (2) did die, so muslim (1) has killed muslim (2) in a way that looks like undeliberatly killing..in all three cases a muslim must do the Kaffarah (see post 8 page 5 for explanation)..when you kill someone deliberatly, the victims family can decide if they want you executed or not, if not you will have to compensate the death of the victim in a price the victims family will decide. when killing in the second or third, the free muslim have to repay the family 100 camels (or something that is worth 100 camels), the slave must pay 50 camels (or something that is worth 50 camels)
15. to withold something


picture of shayhk al harariyy

I am very curious about sharia, the strict code of islamic justice. I do know that it has a lot of the eye-for-an-eye type punishments in it, like the cutting off of a hand for stealing and such. I came across the following article on a website that I read occasionally:

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/02/11/1076388395599.html

The article tells the gruesome story of a 13 year-old Nigerian boy who apparently had his eyes plucked out by four men who wanted to use the eyes as part of a witchcraft ritual to make a talisman that would confer the power of invisibility. Ok, they're loony and they need to be punished.

The article mentions that this horrible crime was comitted in a northern state of Nigeria that practices sharia, and that under that code these men, if convicted, will face the possible removal of their own eyes as punishment. Quite literally an eye-for-an-eye as it were.

I have a few questions regarding these rather gruesome punishments.

Do you have any personal feelings about this type of punishment, beyond what it says in the Q'uran?

Without going into too much detail, how would such a punishment be carried out? Would such punishments be done with anesthetics in a hospital? Are all Islamic doctors willing to carry out these punishments?

While these punishments can be carried out in Nigeria, there are many countries, like the U.S., and western european countries, where such punishments would be against the law. How do Muslims in these countries reconcile themselves to living under a different system of justice than sharia?

To be honest Mehmet, I feel such punishments are barbaric in the extreme. How do Muslims react to having their justice system referred to in this way?

right now i can only partly answer this question, the rest i have to ask for....

1. muslims do believe in the sharia, and have no difficulities accepting it
2. i also believe in the sharia

sorry for these short answers but right now i have no answers


surah al ikhlas

the sins of the body are
1. to hurt your parents
2. to run away from battle in fear
3. to stop the connections betwenn families
4. to hurt your neighbor, even if he is a disbeliever
5. to colour your hair
6. for men to dress as women, and for women to dress as men, or to behaive like the opposite sex
7. to wear clothes for the sole reason of showing off
8. for the man to colour his hand and feet with henna with out a reason
9. the stop while doing a duty with no excusible reason
10. to stop the hadj (pilgrimage) with no good reason
10. to act like another muslim, for the sole reason to make fun of him
11. to spy on peoples private parts
12. the tatoo
13. to stop all connectios with muslims in more then three days with out a excusible reason
14. to accompany someone while he is sinning
15. for the grown man to wear gold except one silver ring..or to wear silk or clothes that has a lot of silk in them
16. to be alone with an adjnabiyyah (see post 5 page 4 for explanation) with out a third part man or woman meaning a khalwah (a person that you are ashamed of that will see doing something wrong)
17. A woman to travel alone with out a mahram (see post 5 page 4 for explanation)
18. to force a free person to work
19. to be mad/angry at a very good muslim
20. to help someone sin
21. to spread something fake (like money or gold)
22. to use gold and silber feeding tools (?) or just for decoration
23. to not pray the five daily prayers
24. to pray one of the five prayers after time has passed with out a good reason
25. to hunt animals with something that kills with a weight that is heavier then a rock
26. to use animals as target practice
27. to make a masjid (mosque) dirty or untidy
28. to not made the hadj (pilgrimage) untill you died, even though you where able to
29. to lend something while knowing that you will not be able to pay him/her back
30. to not give enough time for someone in debt to pay his/she debt when he/she has no money
31. to use money and proberty for sins
32. the thoughtless handling of the quran and other scriptures of islamic knowledge
33. to give the quran to a child who has not reach the age of understanding
34. to take another person seat
35. to fast with no reason
36. to brake a promise
37. to scare a muslim
38. Qat^u t-Tariq (to hide with the purpose to scare a muslim, to rob the muslim or to kill a muslim) if the muslims scares another muslim the punishment is a good beating (like when you beat a child when he has done something wrong) if the muslim scared and robbed or just robbed another muslim the punishment is the removal of the right hand and left foot, if the muslim hides and ambush another muslim in order to kill him the punishment is to stick the muslim on a pole untill he dies, unless the victims family doesnt want the muslim executed
39. to protect a guilty person, and stop others who demand him/her for justice
40. to give an orphan the responsible for a masjid (mosque), al-Qâdiyy (a court house) or something similar, when knowing the orphan is not able to handle the task
41. to not follow the word of a khalif
42. the magic or sorcery
43. to go out with a woman who is an adjanib (see post 5 page 4 for explanation) in order to seduce her
44. for the male muslim to treat his wiwes differently (unless it is love, then there is no sin)
45. to come to a party uninvited
46. to stay at a place for no good reason where sinning is being done
47. to use a street with out allowence (?)



surah al ikhlass

i have been looking in the previous posts, to see who posted what about islam....two people generally caught my eye tenetmaker and curiosgirl...if one of you read this come in this forum and i will tell you about islam since what you have written is not true insulting to point of almost being funny...also to the people who will post about islam in the future do some study before you post and please try read some books actually written from muslims since all book stores are flooded about books on islam written by non muslims who proberly never spoke to a muslim their entire life


picture of imam al shaifa grave

It is unbelieveable that Islam exerts so much control over its' members.

I do not understand why someone that has led a free life would convert to this religion. I can understand someone raised in the faith would not know a more free uncontrolled existance was possible. I can see that the original writers of these rules were control freaks. No insult to you intended. The Christian religions are controling also.
The bottom line of most Christian religions is a comfortable lifestyle and financial gains for the Christian Ministers.
How does Islam get into your pocket?

the only money involved in islam, besides the personal things, is the money to travel to Mecca or the money to give to the poor...there is no big masjid (mosque) or some shayhk that recieves the money, and they have no controll...they help the muslims in becomming better muslims with out getting anything in return....

in what way do these rules affect you? they are there to keep the muslim away from sinning and make the muslim a more polite, just and respectfull person....remember there must be rules to guide us, total freedom is chaos....besides you people in the west have your codes of law, these are ours...

the last post about the sins of the body parts is the sin of the private parts...i will not post this, since children could see it if you are interrested to know more then send me a private message...

to the duty of the hearth are these exapmles
1. to believe in Allah (st) and everything that Allah (st) has revieled
2. to believe in all of the prophets (saws) and the messages that they brought with them
3. al-'Ikhlâs (meaning only to do good deeds for Allah (st)
4. to anguish/regret the sins
5. to trust Allah (st)
6. to fear Allah (st) so you can fullfill your duties and stay away from the forbidden
7. to submit to Allah (st) and not raise any question agaimst Allah (st)
8. to respect the symbols of the islamic religion
9. to be thankfull to Allah (st), when recieving something
10. to be steady in all the duties that Allah (st) has given to us
11. to be steady in not doing any of the sins that Allah (st) has forbidden
12. to be steady when you are suffering
13. to love Allah (st), the Qur'ân, the prophets (saws), the followers and families of the prophets (saws) (except those who are not muslims) and to love the just muslims.
14. to hate shaitan (the devil)
15. to hate the sins



demonstrations against hijab (headscarfban) in france

Originally posted by mehmetinoglu
about the slavery issue

the quran has not abolished slavery, but there are rules in islam about slavery that will in the end lead to abolishment of slavery..

a free born muslim can never become a slave
only children of slaves and non muslim prisinors can be slaves...
the slave has many rights, including the right (which also include his own private buisness) to work of his slavery and become a free man, the price for freedom is settled by the slave and the slave owner and price must be kept...a muslim who kills a slave with no just reason will also be killed..a muslim must not part the children of the slaves away from their parents...prophet Muhammad (saws) said that you should be kind to slaves like you where kind to children...the punishment for slaves is 50% lower then for a free muslim


You only convince me that the religion of Islam is a plague upon humanity. I see a lot of hate, slavery, intolerance, and arbitrary restriction of freedom. If you represent Islam, the sooner Islam is wiped from existance, the better off our world is.

mehmetinoglu, you will never live in a peaceful society under the rules you are prescribing.

Another thing: Even though I am an atheist, there is no doubt in my mind that Christianity, Hinduism, and Bhuddism are much more worthy religions than your version of Islam.

Thank you for convincing me that France's head scarf ban is a good idea.

in the month of ramadan every resposible muslim must fast, the women who have their period at that are excused but they must fast again when their periods end and also fast the days they could not..old weak person, mothers who gives milk and very young children are excused, as are the sick, but when the sick get healthy they are to fast the days they could not...if one is on a journey thats over 48 miles, one is allowed to break his fast...

on the fast you must do
1. to bear witness that you will fast the night before, and to bear witness in your hearth the night before
2. to keep away from these...intercourse (at night it is allowed, but only for married people), masturbation, to deliberatly womit/puke, to consume anything in your body except the liquid that is in your mouth, to loose your mind if only for one second
2. to fast at the 5 celabration days that comes after the month of ramadan is over is not allowed

if one has intercourse during the days of ramadan one must do the kaffarah (see post 8 page 5 for explanation)

go in the street and a look at every 6th person, according to you every 6th person should be wiped out....while you are out go to a libary and find a history book about european history or asian history and see how many they killed in the name of king country and christianity or buddihsm...by saying these statement you have just shown that you know next to nothing about islam, i dont know much about christianity thats why i dont post anything about it....for a muslim life here is only a test to see if we are worthy of paradice, why should i waste my time on socalled earthly freedoms when the award in the after life is the greatest treasure i can possible imagine...untill this day i have never meet a muslim who complained about the strictness in islam....we are happy with our lives and would rather die then leave islam...

Originally posted by mehmetinoglu
that is a common misunderstanding of what happend during the sanctions (yes the name was called oil for food) and the iraqis did get oil for food, but they did not recieve any medicines, the usa did not even send school pencils that the iraqi schools requested....the death of so many people during the sanctions was because of the lack of clean water due to the bombings of the water stations and the electrical station (which was bombed again and again , allthough it was not even close to a military target) the us/uk led sanction also refused to send the tablet needed to purify the water, thats why over 500000 died...look at the un humanitarian report if you dont believe me....

I still don't understand why the U.S. is to blame rather than Sadaam for the condition of the Iraqi people.

If you don't think power plants and water sources are potential mitary targets, you're insane (The military is dependent upon power and water supplies).

Do you know we would never be mixed up in Iraq if Sadaam didn't try to invade and subjugate another country? Do you know he was preparing to invade Saudi Arabia, the home of Mecca? Really, what do you expect Western countries like the U.S. to do? If we did nothing, you would probably blame the U.S. for doing nothing, while the "godless" Sadaam Hussein took over the Middle East.

I think you should be saying "Thank Allah for the gracious Westerners for saving us from a brutal dictatorship!" instead of trying to blame the U.S. for malnutrition in Iraq that is a result the country losing a war.

The only reason you can say Sadaam has only killed thousands is because the U.S. and its allies stopped him. And the only reason you can say the U.S. has killed millions (A very exagerrated number) is because that's what the U.S. and its allies had to do to stop Sadaam.

the only day i will thank the usa, is when you a) stop your support to "israel" b)pull out all of your troops of the muslim countries and c) stop interfeering with our buisness...
the mecca excuse from you is weak, (saddam goal was to free palestine and go into the history as the next Sala ah din, but a brutal dictator like saddam is not Sala ah din), just as the justification of the 1,5 million dead iraqis just to remove saddam...get it in your head WE WILL NEVER ASK FOR YOUR HELP, (even the american friendly shias dont want your presence in iraq)....and the saudi goverment doesnt represent its people, cause the people of saudi arabia would never allowed U.S forces to stay in the land where prophets (saws) have lived...i have posted before and i will post it again, that while saddam was bad it is not your problem, the people of iraq would have gotten rid of him, just like the people of iran got rid of their dictator...

Israel has a right to exist. The Jews were around a very long time before the founder of Islam appeared on the scene.
Those homicide bombers only provide proof of how lunacy pervades the mindset of the misguided faithful, led by and counseled by madmen. The faith you present is one that preaches hatred, paranoia, intolerance and violence.

the only ignorant i see here is you....ok if you think that "israel" has a right to excist, then it is good...lets forget the 55 years of state terrorism, lets forget the massacres, lets forget the ethnic cleansing, lets forget the demolition of villages, lets forget the curfews, lets forget the near slavery work, lets forget the humiliation, lets forget the harrasment, lets forget the wall, lets forget the assasisnations, lets forget all that about israel....maybe you forgot, and wont see what is going on, but i wont forget and i just as all of my muslim brothers and sisters will never forget or recognise a so called country founded by terrorism ( look it up for your self if dont believe it)...you have all the information you can get what is going on over there and still you blame the palestinians? are you blind? are you deaf? i would like to see how you would respond if any one these attrocities mentioned above happend to you? would you just sit there and do nothing? or would you fight back against the murdering occupiers who has destroyed your home, killed you brother, spat at your father, touch your mother where no man should touch at check points, aim their guns for fun at your little brother, telling you that a dog has more rights then you...i dont think that any man, no matter where he is from would sit there and do nothing...

and the arabs in palestine has been there long before the jews came, so dont come and tell me what you dont even really know yourself...maybe once you should actually talk to someone from palestine? and we muslims see islam as the first religion, it was not founded by a man (any theologist can confirm that Muhammad could impossible have created a religion as islam by himself)...there if you are going to respond more ignorant, propogande lies, that you recieve from fox or cnn (yes i have watched these news stations, no wonder why many people over in the far west dont know whats going on over there) dont bother post here, this is a room for explanation of islam, not false accusations from people who dont know what they are talking about...think really carefullt again, would YOU fight back if the things mentioned above happend to you? yes or no, thats all i need to hear

Where's the false accusations you speak of?
Muslims freely speak of the eradication of Israel and Jews everywhere. That's very barbaric & savage in nearly anyone's estimation.
While some information comes from CNN, the majority is from the muslim leaders themselves.

and since when did these corrupt leaders represent their peoples feelings and viewes? you say that our leaders are dictators (which is true, but they will soon be overthrown) but when it suits you, you say that what they say represent the muslims feelings...the false accusation is that you posted that only the palestinians are the ones guilty...you still have not answered my question would you fight back?

note: this is a room so you can understand islam, not the current middle east situation