PDA

View Full Version : For those who thinks the world hate the U.S.


Darth Be'lal
02-03-2004, 09:31 PM
Found this on a website a while back, I had it copied to my computer, but I don't have the original website, so I am posted the copy I have on my computer. This letter was originally written in IRAN! And it gives a positive point of view about the U.S., and I think it should be read here, as some feel that most of the world hates America.

SMCCDI: Reflections on "Presidents' Day" in America
Reflections on "Presidents' Day" in America
SMCCDI (Public Statement)
February 17, 2003
The people of the United States of America are celebrating the anniversary of their country's
"Presidents' Day". This celebration occurs for the people of a young country, yet the oldest remaining western democracy in the world, under circumstances which, according to the recent statements of the presidency of this country about our country, Iran, the shaky regime of the Islamic Republic has been faced with an unprecedented crisis in the international diplomatic arena and every day we are witness to various reactions, not only from the incompetent president of our own country, but also from all the authorities of both factions of the regime. Reactions that indicate the fear of all the illegitimate rulers of our country from the unfolding events in regards to the regional balance on the one hand, and the reaching to the end of the heroic Iranian nation's patience on the other hand. Without doubt, the statements of last January 28th by the presidency of the United States of America, which stated the true aspirations of the Iranian nation pursuant to the annual briefing of his government's accomplishments and the unfolding political outlook of his country, was once again a point of hope for many Iranians as it indicated the gradual shift of American policy compared to previous governments in regards to issues pertaining to our country.
President George W. Bush, who during his speech last year in the same annual ceremony known as The State of the Union, had correctly identified the Islamic Republic as one of three members of the Axis of Evil, and a few months later, meaning the day after the glorious demonstrations for the third anniversary of the student uprising of July 9 (18 Tir), has many times mentioned the rightful aspirations of the Iranian nation and the illegitimate nature of the religious regime and once again, in this year's speech, much more transparently, pointed out our fellow countrymen and countrywomen's basic desire for establishing a desirable government and mentioned that in Iran the freedom-lovers face the prospect of death and terror on a daily basis. Then, the executive chief of the world's only superpower in continuing this speech, which identifies his countries forthcoming policies, stated his country's open support for the freedom-lover's in Iran.
It should be noted that although the liberation of our country should be accomplished by the capable hands of the Iranians themselves without any foreign troops being involved, even so, the statements of Mr. Bush give precious hope that the quarter-century seclusion of the Iranian nation, which was due to the absence of listeners to our justice-demanding voices-- as in this material world the possibility of plundering the wealth of our country had made so many in this world blind to our plight-- is at an end.
Without doubt, the roots of President Bush's support, meaning this representative of the majority of the honorable American nation, can be found in the sudden awakening of that country's people towards the daily rising threat of religious fundamentalism and terrorism in the aftermath of September 11 on the one hand, and on the other hand along the deep beliefs rising from the rational and humane thoughts of the Founding Fathers of the United States of America and famous thinkers such as John Locke who with their humane beliefs that apply to the whole world, as the founding principals of the new state, nearly three centuries ago founded an unequaled country. A country whose foundation and the spirit of its law even today continues, not only for Americans, but also for many of the oppressed people of the world, to be a model of an open and democratic system.


Yes, men such as Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, and Benjamin Franklin in reaction to the vicious cruelty and opportunism of the rulers of the time of the European countries rose up against them to create a country that considers itself the torchbearer and supporter of humane values and shelter for the world's freedom-lovers. Therefore, it is not without reason that this newly founded country, in a very short time, has become an unequaled country and a gathering place for many of the world's freedom-lovers, especially, for two-million of our fellow country-men and country-women who are residing there and have attained the best of living standards: A standard of freedom and life that the illegitimate rulers of our country, with the support of the already mentioned European opportunists, withhold from our people: European governments and rulers who out of fear of there placement in the new world order by America on the one hand and out of fear of losing their illegitimate benefits in countries such as Iran on the other hand, not only have risen to opposition with their decades-long ally and have forgotten the efforts of the US for liberating them from the yoke of Nazism and, later, Bolshevism and then the inheritance of the Marshall Plan which raised them from rubble, but also in their effort to throw stones along the path of their ally of yesterday and her war against terrorism, are willing to trod over the rest of their own values to support regimes such as the Islamic Republic in order to continue looting the nations of such countries.
Yes, President Bush, the president of the oldest remaining Western democracy in the world, despite the opportunistic support of European governments for the religious regime, has stated that the American nation is the friend and supporter of the Iranian nation in their struggle to attain liberty; and the Iranian nation, without doubt, despite the existing atmosphere of pressure and suppression, have demonstrated many times that the American nation, not only in the Middle East, but possibly in the world, has no better friend than the Iranian nation. Therefore, it is hoped that all the decision makers in the United States abstain from any kind of short-term tactical conciliation towards the other two members of the Axis of Evil.
Along this line, on behalf of the Third Force of Iran, while honoring Presidents' Day in America, the Student Movement Coordination Committee for Democracy in Iran once again states that in tomorrow's liberated Iran, meaning in a democratic and secular Iran whose rulers have been selected by majority vote, and not by the hostage-takers and their terrorist-nurturing masters, the official relations of the two countries of Iran and America will reflect the amicable desires of these two nations and not the desires of a minority of unelected officials who have converted Iran into a religious dictatorship for a quarter-century.
February 17 2003 (28 Bahman 1381)
The "Student Movement Coordination Committee for Democracy in Iran"

BorgHunter
02-04-2004, 06:11 PM
Wow. One letter proves that legions of people don't hate Bush. Yes, I concede to your wisdom.

/sarcasm :rolleyes:

Darth Be'lal
02-04-2004, 07:50 PM
Hey Borg,

Keep looking on the up and up! Unlike you, I try to find the positive about the United States. And a group of students, who live in a country that is ruled by tyranny, deciding to write about how great a system of govt we got in the U.S. is about as good as it gets, dammit!

astrapol2
02-05-2004, 03:34 AM
While I have no doubt about the fact that many iranians have a positive opinion of the USa and wish real democracy for their country (just look at the way people reacted in Iran to 9-11, by going in the streets and lighting candles), I have a strange feeling about this letter. Anonymous, without any link to a site, it may be what it says but it looks like a piece of propaganda to me.
Anyway, I do not think that "the world hates the USA". The truth is far more complex - for example, in my country, where opposition to the war and to Bush is very strong, I have never seen hatred against american people. There are no "anti-american" jokes, and while many people disagree with Bush's policy, they have nothing against american people.

mad dog
02-05-2004, 06:23 AM
Originally posted by astrapol2
There are no "anti-american" jokes, and while many people disagree with Bush's policy, they have nothing against american people.

Yeh, and we{Americans} don't have any Frenchy jokes either :rolleyes:

astrapol2
02-05-2004, 08:29 AM
Precisely, that is the difference. Believe me or not, but even during the most tense period between our two countries, I never heard an anti american joke here ! And I have not been informed of french people throwing away Coca Cola bottles.

mad dog
02-05-2004, 09:06 AM
Well I have some ocean front property in Arizona for sale real cheap, it comes with a heard of unicorns, and pink elephants. Of course they are all invisible but they are there.

mad dog
02-05-2004, 09:12 AM
Atsra have you forgotten about your deck of cards?

Travh20
02-05-2004, 09:19 AM
Originally posted by astrapol2
I have a strange feeling about this letter. Anonymous, without any link to a site, it may be what it says but it looks like a piece of propaganda to me.

you should take a look at all of Mr Shamans links and posts if you want to see anonymous propaganda.

Originally posted by astrapol2
Anyway, I do not think that "the world hates the USA". The truth is far more complex - for example, in my country, where opposition to the war and to Bush is very strong, I have never seen hatred against american people. There are no "anti-american" jokes, and while many people disagree with Bush's policy, they have nothing against american people.

I went to Paris once and it was the worst I have been treated in any city in any country I've been to. They lied to us, misled us, tried to rip us off, attempted to rob us, it was pathetic. None of this started until they realized that we were from the USA. Not only did they not try to help us out, they delibretly went out of their way to screw with us. this went on for 4 days straight, and was not one isolated incident.

mad dog
02-05-2004, 09:54 AM
Originally posted by astrapol2
I have never seen hatred against american people.

did you ever turn on the T.V.
There are no "anti-american" jokes,

{Q} how many Americans does it take to buy a gal. of gas?

{A} 250,000 to seize it and 1 to do the pumping
>
{Q}How does the American women avoid the singles bar scene?

{A}She marries her kidnapper
>
{Q}How many wifes does the average American husband have?

{A}10, 1 at home 9 more in Utah
>
An American journalist interviewing a french writter puts his feet on the table and ask; "I hope this doesn't embarass you?"

French writter; "Oh no, feel free to put all 4 of your legs up there"
>
A french in Paris ask a tourist; "Do you want to hear a funny joke about stupid Americans?"

tourist; "HEY, I'm American"

French; "That's ok I'll tell you twice so you'll understand"

Nope no anti-American jokes comming from Frenchy, BULL SH**

Darth Be'lal
02-05-2004, 04:25 PM
Astropol,


I did try to find the original link, but it was dead, so I can't link to the letter. I wrote the original post hurriedly and didn't bother trying to find the website.

Also, it's nice to know that not ALL of France hates, not that I ever believed it, but it's still nice to hear someone from France who believes that his countrymen don't hold grudges against the U.S. Thanks!

eyeful
02-05-2004, 06:33 PM
Travh20 in Paris?! That's a scary thought.

I can't think of a worse personality to represent this country. Paris needs another pompous American blowhard running amok in the streets like GW Bush needs another hot tip from the CIA!

How's that for compassionate conservatism, Trav?

Travh20
02-05-2004, 06:42 PM
the only pompous american blowhard around here is you man, oh, and mr shaman, who you will fit right in with. LOL, I did like the saying "running amok in the streets" though, that was pretty accurate.

astrapol2
02-06-2004, 03:25 AM
About France/USA hatred…
I have not said that there was no tension and no criticism. And, OK, there are some jokes about americans, like about most other countries. Sure, the image of the USA here is not very good. But, quite honestly, most people make the difference between the american govt and the american people. The criticism has been very hard against the war and against Bush (and his administration, which was targeted ny the card deck, etc…) but I have never seen people in TV shows making fun of american people, or "american cars crushing", or all the things that have been done against France in the USA. Never, in an official institution like the Senate or the Parliament, would anything as ridiculous a changing the name of french fries occur !

People in France are following the election campaign like never before. Many hope that Bush will be beaten and that our two countries will be able to work together again. (and I also hope that Chirac will be beaten in 2007 and then sent to jail…)

mad dog
02-06-2004, 06:34 AM
Atsra;

I just want you to know I was not posting the jokes to bash you. I posted the jokes because of your comment about "no anti-America" I just had the feeling you where trying to make France look like a perfect little place. No matter what country one goes too, there will be hate for others, atleast as long as there are people involved.

You are correct America has many jokes against France but we also feel that France left us high and dry. France was right there with us when we told Sadam if he didn't do this or that, then we were comming in. Well when the sh** hit the fan, France put there tail between their legs and ran. Once things quieted down again France wanted back in. Sorry but to alot of Americans that is very cowardice. I'm not trying to get into a debate of what was or should have been done, I'm just trying to say if a country commits itself, that it should stand by its actions and follow through.

Travh20
02-06-2004, 10:04 AM
they might have had not saddam bribed chirac into opposing the war for him. it seems that a majority of people opposed to the war were bought off by saddam, all except the really rabid bush haters who would oppose anything the man did anyway.

eyeful
02-06-2004, 12:09 PM
Mad Dog, that's classic revisionist history!

France never "turned tail and ran". France ALWAYS lobbied to find a diplomatic solution which, in hindsight, was probably a lot more fair and honest than the tact the US and UK took.

France has already been through "the terrorist thing", in the 70's when "Les Plasticques" were blowing up the streets of Paris on a regular basis. They believe the best way to deal with terrorism is through diplomacy, fair trade, and economic partnership.

France had no obligation to jump on Bush's bandwagon if it thought that was the wrong way to go. France is a big, modern, all grown up country that has every right to disagree with US foreign policy. Bush / Powell / Rumsfeld outright lied about WMDs in Iraq and are now concocting a new myth about why we really needed to blow away SH's regime. Who has the most egg on its face now, France or the US???

Travh20
02-06-2004, 12:18 PM
yes france, powerhouse of modern diplomacy and clout. Only if we could be more like france, and canada! and seeing as france was bribed by SH to oppose the war, I would say two timing, back stabbing france will always have the most eg on their face.

mad dog
02-06-2004, 12:20 PM
Eyeful

from your above statement you must have been on vacation in the Cuban Jungle with know way to relize what was going on. Maybe you should go back untill everything is over, either that or pull your head out of the sand and get a clue.

Travh20
02-06-2004, 12:22 PM
ya eyeful, its impossible to have revisionist history when everyone was actually there to see what happened.

eyeful
02-06-2004, 12:32 PM
Thanks BOYS for your enlightening responses. Always good to know that meaningful discourse = petty smack on this site.

Thanks for thye usual "pull your head out" stuff. You BOYS really know how to dish the dirt.

Now, if you want to have a grown up debate on whether or not France has every right as a sovereign nation, western power, and world leader to adhere to its own foreign policy, just let me know.

If it's simpleminded France-bashing that gets you off, I'm not interested.

Travh20
02-06-2004, 12:41 PM
actually mocking and humiliating the french is quite enjoyable.

mad dog
02-06-2004, 01:09 PM
Eyeful;

If you had noticed I said I was not trying to bash. I was just making a point that the French are no more innocent of bashing then the Americans.

eyeful
02-06-2004, 01:09 PM
Even when it makes you look like an imbecile?

Go head on!

mad dog
02-06-2004, 01:15 PM
Eyeful;

we must have posted at the same time

Travh20
02-06-2004, 02:13 PM
yes eyeful, what you think of me is the most important thing in my life, right behind making sure I spell everything correctly for nem and shaman

eyeful
02-06-2004, 02:55 PM
You making yourself look like an imbecile has nothing to do with me, thank you very much.

Travh20
02-06-2004, 03:33 PM
thank you, and your welcome.

LionelHutz
02-06-2004, 11:32 PM
Originally posted by eyeful
Mad Dog, that's classic revisionist history!

France never "turned tail and ran". France ALWAYS lobbied to find a diplomatic solution which, in hindsight, was probably a lot more fair and honest than the tact the US and UK took.

If they were being fair and honest they would have mentioned to everyone (in the spirit of full disclosure) just how much money they were raking in from oil and munitions contracts with the Iraqis.

WindWip
02-07-2004, 12:49 AM
How the people act to another nation is one thing, and even to go as far as to label french fries 'freedom fries' would not mean much if it were from civilians. That is just a pathetic attempt at a low blow to France. In any case, it is not helping relations, instead it is about as close to calling names as politicians can get.
(french fries were created in Belgum i believe)

eyeful
02-07-2004, 11:09 AM
Hello, Lionel....the UN sanctions prohibited any nation from sending munitions to Iraq.
Oil purchasing was severly limited by the embargo. The French were primarily selling & trading telecommunications equipment/services to Iraq. They were heavily invested in that endeavor. The reason the French needed to "join" America after the fall of SH was to rebuild the infrastructure that was blown away by the USA, and to try to recoup money on the tens of millions of dollars in loans that Iraq owes to France (and other countries)

astrapol2
02-07-2004, 02:24 PM
True, eyeful. france sold military equipemnt to Iraq during the 80's (like everyone did, starting with the USA) but the ecenomic links with Iraq were quite small by the end of the 90's.
The main reasons why the french govt opposed to the war was diplomatic. France did not want to undermine its relations with 3rd world countries, and especially muslim countries, by supporting an unfait and unnecessary war. And, true, the french govt did not like the idea of an almighty USA that takes the fate of the world in its hands.
Wrong or right, these are the real reasons why it opposed the war - on the economic point of view, France had much more to lose by opposing the USA than by supporting them.

Travh20
02-07-2004, 06:10 PM
Well according to the the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI) the break down is as follows... :

http://projects.sipri.se/armstrade/atirq_data.html

Arms transfers to Iraq, 1973-2002

Share of sales by country

USSR(UNSR) ................................57%
France (UNSC) ........13%
China (UNSC) .........12%
Czechoslovakia ......7%
Poland ...4%
Brazil ..2%
Egypt .1%
Romania .1%
Denmark .1%
Libya .1%
USA (UNSC) .1%



http://www.solport.com/resources/Iraqi%20Weapons.JPG

eyeful
02-08-2004, 01:29 PM
Again, a bit of a reading problem, Trav??

From the link:

"Although the SIPRI Arms Transfers Project has monitored reports of transfers of major conventional weapons to Iraq since 1990, none of these reports have been sufficiently well documented to confirm a transfer has taken place."

Pretty chart though; very colorful.

This is exactly the kind of stilted, "skim-the-surface" reporting that the right wing dweebs (Savage, Limbaugh, Hannity, et al) thrive on.

hayryan
02-08-2004, 03:25 PM
All France did was jump on the anti Bush bandwagon and make a big grab for power in the eupean union.

eyeful
02-08-2004, 03:31 PM
LOL!! The "anti-Bush bandwagon" is overcrowed with people from around the world, including a growing number of Americans! No one can remember a US president who was as universally disdained as is Dubya.

Blibblob
02-08-2004, 03:35 PM
No one can remember a US president who was as universally disdained as is Dubya.
There never has been. Plus, there were more demonstrators who protested the war on Iraq then any other war, and against any other person in history.

Travh20
02-09-2004, 12:13 AM
If all the crazy people outnumber the sane, does that mean that the sane people are now the crazies?