I know this is Europe, but it isnt far off here.

http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=93982004

It just proves that all the nutballs don't live in the U.S.

Originally posted by Travh20
I know this is Europe, but it isnt far off here.

http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=93982004
No doubt!!!

Where is their compassion?????????? (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A45142-2004Jan24.html?nav=hptoc_m) :mad: :mad:

isn't it funny how
a. most of the people who think abortion is murder seem to love the death penalty, and
b. guys seem to have this insatiable desire to control women's bodies and decide exactly what they can adn can't do to them.

perhaps some inexplicable biological phenomenon? but then again, some of the guys I know aren't complete masochistic pigs. maybe it's just the dumb conservative thing
(ooh, my first post and I'm already beig ridiculously scathing and unkind. )

Now where did Roe v. Wade get into all this?

And I agree with Vilepagan, the guy is a nutball.

...so many big words.......

by the way, welcome to AllForums!

Yes, there's a lot of seeming conflict - conservatives are frequently pro-death penalty and anti- abortion, liberals are frequently pro-choice and anti-death penalty. Personally, I change my mind on both issues at least once a week.

I like Lionel's answer!

Lionel would it help if we simplified and called both abortion and the death penalty under one name? THE DEATH PENALTY

The death penalty is for scum bags, lumping babies with scum bags doesn't make sense.

The guy in the article obviously wants a perfect human race like something out of sci fi. Well why stop with just defected babies why not create one color one weight one height??? This guy is an idiot and should be wiped from the planet himself.

Originally posted by mad dog
The death penalty is for scum bags, lumping babies with scum bags doesn't make sense.

The guy in the article obviously wants a perfect human race like something out of sci fi. Well why stop with just defected babies why not create one color one weight one height??? This guy is an idiot and should be wiped from the planet himself. Careful mad dog, you're gonna fire up all these lefties that love to defend the rights of a convicted murderer but gladly support anyone's right to murder unborn children. Talk about views being funny, or strange, to me that is about as messed up a view as you can have.

IMO, abortion should only be legal in cases where there was rape or if by letting the child be born it puts the mother at risk of dying. I'll use an analogy much the same as Dan Fussel did.

Originally posted by Dan Fussell
Ever see the pictures of people in the consentration camps?
Health problems or no I don't remember seeing a fat person.
Sorry for the terrible example, but no food no fat.

So by using this logic, i say that if women do not want to become pregnant they should keep their legs closed or become responsible enough to use contraceptives. Of course, the only way to really be sure to not get pregnant is abstinence. Otherwise, deal with the consequences of your actions. Dont just murder an unborn child because you are promiscuous or irresponsible.

Originally posted by HaVoK

So by using this logic, i say that if women do not want to become pregnant they should keep their legs closed or become responsible enough to use contraceptives. Of course, the only way to really be sure to not get pregnant is abstinence. Otherwise, deal with the consequences of your actions. Dont just murder an unborn child because you are promiscuous or irresponsible.

do i need to remind you that it takes two to get a woman pregnant? you seem content to put all the blame on the woman and none on the man. you've got the dick and the semen. so because the WOMAN isn't responsible, she should have to keep the child as a punishment for her irresponsibilty while the man gets off with paying child support at worst. so the woman is miserable with the child, and those are sure great conditions for a kid to grow up in, eh? and meanwhile, the man is pretty much out of the picture except for when he has to send in that check once a month.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by HaVoK
[B]Careful mad dog, you're gonna fire up all these lefties that love to defend the rights of a convicted murderer but gladly support anyone's right to murder unborn children. Talk about views being funny, or strange, to me that is about as messed up a view as you can have.



that is really ludicrously biased. I'm not anti-death penalty because some people don't deserve it. maybe they do, maybe they don't, it's not something I'm totally sure about. what I am sure about is that innocent people DON'T deserve to die, and that our justice system is not fullproof eniough to have the death penalty. there is always the chance of executing someone who didn't committ the crime, and that risk just isn;t worth taking. ther'es no reason why guilty criminals can't just be our behind bars for the rest of their lives if what they did was so bad. whne you're dealing with wrongly accused criminals there is just too much room for eror to execute anyone.

*Hoping he doesn't sound like a Nazi*
The guy has a point. Why let a child live in pain if it's going to die anyways? "But it's so cute and innocent!" So why let it through the torture? There are diseases in which the death expectancy is almost 100% within a short time, and even more in which the child will die in a few years. People with serious brain defects only live "good" lives because to them ignorance is bliss. I am just fine with the killing of babies who's life expectancy is almost 0%, or if they will live a few years in pain, and then die anyways.

In the past, Harris has spoken of the need to allow people to buy and sell human organs as a means of increasing supplies for transplant operations.
Now this section out of the article is really fucked up.

WhammyBar, when does "choice" come into abortion anyways? Other than quite a few times if a daughter gets pregnant the father gets ticked and demands an abortion.
On the death penalty, I agree with you.

so to this whammy bar guy its OK to let a innocent man rot behind bars as long s he isnt executed? If you use Bliblobs logic, you might as well kill any person sentanced to life, since they are just going to die anyway after a certain amount of time living like crap.

so to this whammy bar guy its OK to let a innocent man rot behind bars as long s he isnt executed? If you use Bliblobs logic, you might as well kill any person sentanced to life, since they are just going to die anyway after a certain amount of time living like crap.
Good job trav, you have both managed to twist logic and present incorrect information.
There are such things as appeals, there have been cases of people just a bit away from execution when they find new evidence to declare them innocent. Also, remeber, you bitch about it, living conditions in jail aren't that bad.

if you kill someone they can never be let out of jail. even if they spend years in jail and are released it's beter than fidning them innocent after they have been executed.

Boy, this death penalty thing is a tough one.
I guess opinion would surely change with the view from the electric chair. Hard to imagine sitting there with a shaved head waiting for the switch to be pulled.
Hard to also imagine the feelings about a prisoner that had viciously taken the life of a loved one of mine.
I am sure I would be thinking more of revenge than seeing justice done.
The prisoner had a choice in life, not to take a life.
But, at the same time, it must be terrible to be accused of a crime you had not commited. :confused:

Originally posted by Blibblob
There are such things as appeals, there have been cases of people just a bit away from execution when they find new evidence to declare them innocent.

Blib

It's not so much that they prove a person innocent, as it is they find loop holes in the system. These lawyers dig, and dig, and dig, until they finnally find one stupid little flaw with how the criminal was treated, then they make him/her look innocent. When actually they still commited the crime, the police, courts etc... just left something out or incomplete. Look how many scum bags have gotten off the death penality because they use the poor me deal "I was abused as a child, my daddy was a killer so I thought it was ok, etc...."

"Look how many scum bags have gotten off the death penality because they use the poor me deal "I was abused as a child, my daddy was a killer so I thought it was ok, etc...."

if we just eliminated the death penalty all together then that wouldn't happen any more, would it? you can't cheat your way out of the death penalty if there is no death penalty.

Fussell, so we sould kill a person because we want revenge?

Mad Dog, but not all cases of people being declared not guilty are just because the lawers dug and dug, some are truely innocent. And because some murderers get off due to lawers finding flaws, does that mean we should just say sorry to those that truely are innocent?

"I was abused as a child, my daddy was a killer so I thought it was ok, etc...."
Only works if a psychatrist agrees, then if they are declared legally insane, they get stuck in the loony bin. And as sputnik said, if there is no death penalty, they wouldn't have much reason to do that.

Originally posted by Blibblob
Fussell, so we sould kill a person because we want revenge?
I cant answer for him, but I certainly believe in revenge. Its one of my many flaws. If someone ever killed someone i love, not only would i want him/her executed, but i would like to be the one to push the button.

Lets get back on topic;
This entire argument is over abortion and when a baby is considered to be a person. To me it is when they have are able to remember. I am not sure when this occurs, but they would miss nothing if they were unable to remember it.
People who disagree with me could bring this down all the way to eggs and sperm, but those are extremists who have no logic.

Originally posted by sputnik
if we just eliminated the death penalty all together then that wouldn't happen any more, would it? you can't cheat your way out of the death penalty if there is no death penalty.

So you and Blib would rather support some one like the "Ice Man", You would rather spend 40,000+ a year on some scum bag then get rid of them. Like I have said a thousand times we need to get rid of the bad apples, all they do is stink up and rot all the rest. If a person is proven without a doubt that they killed another for selfish reasons(not self defense or accident) then they should not be allowed to breathe. I understand you 2 are young but I have seen and been around one of these killers(close to the family he destroyed). They do not change and aren't worth dog sh**. Maybe after you live for awhile you will understand how much is wasted on these scum bags.

A capital murder case in most any location in the USA typically costs $1 million or more. $45,000 (mad dog's + estimated) x 70 years = $315,000. From that standpoint alone, life imprisonment makes sense.
No more special "death rows", no special treatment for those waiting on death row for a decade or more, no publicity when their time comes around to head to the death chamber, just a miserable life behind bars in general population, with all the other scumbags. They do a farily good job of killing one another when the really bad guys show up (Jeffery Dahlmer for example) and they're completely out of the public eye.
I've long been a supporter of exterminating those that "need killing". While prison costs are high, the legal bills involved in putting a human animal to death, regardless of how much that particular walking pile of excrement deserves it, are to high to ignore.
Spend the money saved on something for the law abiding citizenry, rather than on legal fees for some dirtbag.

WindWhip, as far as I know if you are murdered at any age you do not remember it.

Originally posted by es347fan
A capital murder case in most any location in the USA typically costs $1 million or more. $45,000 (mad dog's + estimated) x 70 years = $315,000. From that standpoint alone, life imprisonment makes sense.

45,000 X 70 = 3,150,000 you forgot a couple zero's Es

Lets say it just cost 40,000 a year and the person only lives 40 to 50 years your cost is still in the millions{= 1,600,000 to 2,000,000}. Lets also not forget how the cost of everything goes up year after year. Not only is it higher to keep these scum we still have to go through the court cost no matter how the results turn out.


No more special "death rows", no special treatment for those waiting on death row for a decade or more, no publicity when their time comes around to head to the death chamber, just a miserable life behind bars in general population, with all the other scumbags.

I agree with the NO special attention, but I still hate the idea of giving these bottom feeder scum, food, clothing, a roof, game room, TV, etc... ONE bullet right in the rock thats on their shoulders. Cost = gun 450.00 box of ammo 20-30 dollars, see I just killed 20 death row worms for under 500.00. Oops forgot the cost of highering a person for 5 min. still under 500.00

They do a farily good job of killing one another when the really bad guys show up (Jeffery Dahlmer for example) and they're completely out of the public eye.

I do agree it is great when they do kill each other off, but it doesn't happen that often, otherwise our jails wouldn't be over growded.

I've long been a supporter of exterminating those that "need killing". While prison costs are high, the legal bills involved in putting a human animal to death, regardless of how much that particular walking pile of excrement deserves it, are to high to ignore.

I agree the cost are high but why can't the public change this. Most of the cost is because the scum lawyers keep sh** going even when the person is quilty without doubt. Take away the client and there is no cost left.

Spend the money saved on something for the law abiding citizenry, rather than on legal fees for some dirtbag.

I do agree there are alot of things the money could go for but we need to change the politicians in order for it to work.

Something else to think about with these scum. While they are in jail alot of them commit new crimes, which inturn cost more. Then there are the cases where they escape and kill even more people, which inturn costs more. Then there are those that are set free because of over growding etc... which inturn causes us our freedom. Alot of these scum even after they do get out still go back to a life of crime which in turn creates, a new crime, new court dates, new lawyer, new jail time, etc...

Sorry mad dog, guess I need to wear my "old man reading glasses" even when I'm on the puter now. I saw 3 zeros rather than 4 when I multiplied!

First thing to go is the eyesight :D, then the mind :D

huh?

Originally posted by mad dog
First thing to go is the eyesight :D, then the mind :D

So you're saying that Shaman is blind too? :D

Originally posted by Travh20
so to this whammy bar guy

umm.....I'm a girl. you know, sputnik told me she got mistaken for a guy too. what's with that?

Originally posted by WhammyBar
umm.....I'm a girl. you know, sputnik told me she got mistaken for a guy too. what's with that? Please forgive us all if we do not notice your female attributes through our computer monitors. :D

the world hasnt evolved enough to assume everything is female yet i guess

but i wonder why when people don't know another person's gender, why do they usually assume it's male? interesting. another thing i think interesting is how surprised ugababe was when she found out i was female. she said it was because of the way i replied to her posts. but if i type in a "male" fashion, then how would i have to write so that people would immediately presume me to be female?

by the way uga, i'm not mad at you or anything. well, about this. just interested.

We are all a bunch of sexist male chauvinist pigs?

I seriously had no idea you were female, and I can't come up with any reasons why I came to the conclusion that you were male. I knew WhammyBar was female, becuase Borg told me so... how he found out, I have no clue.

So, are the 14 year old females good looking? I'm kidding...

Originally posted by mad dog
It's not so much that they prove a person innocent, as it is they find loop holes in the system. These lawyers dig, and dig, and dig, until they finnally find one stupid little flaw with how the criminal was treated, then they make him/her look innocent. When actually they still commited the crime, the police, courts etc... just left something out or incomplete. Look how many scum bags have gotten off the death penality because they use the poor me deal "I was abused as a child, my daddy was a killer so I thought it was ok, etc...."
Thank you so much! This is the first bit of sense that Ive read in awhile. That is the reason so many rapists and murderers get away with their lives.

I assumed you were both male for a lot of reasons, one being that there don't seem to be a lot of women on this board. #2 being that "sputnik" and "whammybar" aren't names I would guess a woman would choose. Not that those are good reasons, but since you asked . . .

for all we know Shaman is some crazy old cat lady locked away behind mountains of trash pecking away at her keyboard in an old stained moo moo sipping Yohoo and chain smoking Best Buy cigarettes.

Originally posted by Travh20
for all we know Shaman is some crazy old cat lady locked away behind mountains of trash pecking away at her keyboard in an old stained moo moo sipping Yohoo and chain smoking Best Buy cigarettes.

:D :D :D

SPUT-NIK- An artificial earth satelite launched by the USSR.

Does this mean you are neither sex? :D

Whammy- A supernatural spell; hex

Bar- The nullifying of a claim or action.

Does this mean we can't believe what you say? :D