Now I sit me down in school
Where praying is against the rule
For this great nation under God
Finds mention of Him very odd.

If Scripture now the class recites,
It violates the Bill of Rights.
And anytime my head I bow
Becomes a Federal matter now.

Our hair can be purple, orange or green,
That's no offense; it's a freedom scene.
The law is specific, the law is precise.
Prayers spoken aloud are a serious vice.

For praying in a public hall
Might offend someone with no faith at all.
In silence alone we must meditate,
God's name is prohibited by the state.

We're allowed to cuss and dress like freaks,
And pierce our noses, tongues and cheeks.
They've outlawed guns, but FIRST the Bible.
To quote the Good Book makes me liable.

We can elect a pregnant Senior Queen,
And the 'unwed daddy,' our Senior King.
It's "inappropriate" to teach right from wrong,
We're taught that such "judgments" do not belong.

We can get our condoms and birth controls,
Study witchcraft, vampires and totem poles.
But the Ten Commandments are not allowed,
No word of God must reach this crowd.

It's scary here I must confess,
When chaos reigns the school's a mess.
So, Lord, this silent plea I make:
Should I be shot; My soul please take!

Cute...but very misleading

Doesn't sound to far off the mark.

The way the law is written: you can pray, read the Bible, etc. wherever and whenever you want, as long as it isn't STATE-LED or STATE-SPONSERED. Kids are free to bring Bibles to school and read them, and pray, lead after-school prayer groups, whatever, as long as it doesn't interrupt things. You can put a giant 50-foot-cross on your front lawn and that's within your rights (assuming there are no neighborhood regulations on such things).

The government, however, cannot lead prayer groups. They cannot erect a 50 foot cross or display the 10 Commandments on government property. They cannot hand out Bibles. That is the key to this country, the very reason we have religious freedom here and this is not a theocracy.

Originally posted by Vilepagan
Cute...but very misleading How so?

Originally posted by HaVoK
How so?

Well lets see...

Now I sit me down in school
Where praying is against the rule
For this great nation under God
Finds mention of Him very odd.

Praying in school is not against any law, just school sponsored prayer.

If Scripture now the class recites,
It violates the Bill of Rights.
And anytime my head I bow
Becomes a Federal matter now.

If the class recites prayer yes it's against the law, but I'm pretty sure you can bow your head any time you want.

Our hair can be purple, orange or green,
That's no offense; it's a freedom scene.
The law is specific, the law is precise.
Prayers spoken aloud are a serious vice.

Praying out loud is only wrong if it's disruptive or sponsored in any way by the school.

For praying in a public hall
Might offend someone with no faith at all.
In silence alone we must meditate,
God's name is prohibited by the state.

Just wrong.

We're allowed to cuss and dress like freaks,
And pierce our noses, tongues and cheeks.
They've outlawed guns, but FIRST the Bible.
To quote the Good Book makes me liable.

I doubt is ok to "cuss" in school. I think that still earns you at least a trip to see the principal. And I think it's still considered more serious to bring a gun to school than it is to bring a Bible.

We can elect a pregnant Senior Queen,
And the 'unwed daddy,' our Senior King.
It's "inappropriate" to teach right from wrong,
We're taught that such "judgments" do not belong.

No court ever said it was inappropriate to teach "right" from "wrong", they have consistently ruled that it was inappropriate to use the Bible as your "right & wrong" handbook.

We can get our condoms and birth controls,
Study witchcraft, vampires and totem poles.
But the Ten Commandments are not allowed,
No word of God must reach this crowd.

This makes it sound like pagan rituals are routinely perfomed in schools. I doubt that takes place. I would want my child to be taught what a totem pole is and it's significance to native american culture.

It's scary here I must confess,
When chaos reigns the school's a mess.
So, Lord, this silent plea I make:
Should I be shot; My soul please take!


It may be scary to be in school these days but I doubt that's because we keep the public schools from preaching christian beliefs.

Vilepagan, the way you picked that poem apart, might be popular where you live, but overall, the poem is mostly true.

It seems that God has been taken out of schools and are being replaced by weapons, condoms, and birth control pills.

Just think, one day God is gonna come down here and stir the people, just like an Eagle stirs it's nest.

I bet everything in that poem has happened at least once somewhere in this country because every school has a few over the top administrators, but for the most part I agree with Vile.

Originally posted by Vilepagan

Praying in school is not against any law, just school sponsored prayer.

If the class recites prayer yes it's against the law, but I'm pretty sure you can bow your head any time you want.

Praying out loud is only wrong if it's disruptive or sponsored in any way by the school.
Praying, in general, is frowned upon. You say that praying out loud is only wrong if its disruptive. Well, for some, just hearing a prayer would make someone feel as though the prayer itself was disruptive.

Originally posted by Vilepagan

This makes it sound like pagan rituals are routinely perfomed in schools. I doubt that takes place. I would want my child to be taught what a totem pole is and it's significance to native american culture.

It may be scary to be in school these days but I doubt that's because we keep the public schools from preaching christian beliefs. I agree that all forms of culture should be taught in school. At least a sampling of every main culture in the world today should be touched upon. I also believe that ones religion can be a huge part of their culture.

And you can doubt that keeping religion from schools has any effect on our society, that is your right. But i respectfully disagree with you on that part. I think that their are valuable lessons to be learned from religion. (notice i didnt say christianity) And lets face it, with the way our children are behaving in this day and age, what could it hurt? Believe it or not, there is more love taught in religion than hate. More tolerance than not. Religion is getting a serious bad rap these days. And IMO that is becuase we have a very vocal minority, with an agenda, that is fighting tooth and nail to keep religion from our schools. Also,as it has been displayed in this forum, there are zealots in both camps.

I myself do not believe the any religion should forced on children in schools. I like the poem because it brings up the fact that there are things wrong with our schools. Many people believe that religion should be taught in schools because our children will have better morals and all that stuff. But I think they just need to start teaching good, plain common sense.

Originally posted by HaVoK
[B Religion is getting a serious bad rap these days. And IMO that is becuase we have a very vocal minority, [/B]

I agree Havok


I think the poem as an overall view speaks alot of truth. Vile you did a good job of picking it apart and proved some points, but look at it as talking about all public schools in this country.

Originally posted by southernboy823
I myself do not believe the any religion should forced on children in schools. I like the poem because it brings up the fact that there are things wrong with our schools. Many people believe that religion should be taught in schools because our children will have better morals and all that stuff. But I think they just need to start teaching good, plain common sense. There is a big difference between something being "forced on children" and simply exposing somthing to children. Besides, IMO, if you have to force something on people, the product you're selling must not be very good. Whereas, i believe, that once children are exposed to love and kindness, they will always want to have it in their life. Simply teaching children right and wrong is not the answer IMO. We have to show them they are loved and they matter as well. And for me, when i think of religion, i think of love. If there is another way to show these children love and self respect that doesnt require religion then im all for that as well. Because my God would rather remain anonymous and the world be filled with love than to have everyone on the planet worship him and the world be as it is today. Hope my rambling made a little sense to people who read this.

Originally posted by HaVoK
There is a big difference between something being "forced on children" and simply exposing somthing to children. Besides, IMO, if you have to force something on people, the product you're selling must not be very good. Whereas, i believe, that once children are exposed to love and kindness, they will always want to have it in their life. Simply teaching children right and wrong is not the answer IMO. We have to show them they are loved and they matter as well. And for me, when i think of religion, i think of love. If there is another way to show these children love and self respect that doesnt require religion then im all for that as well.

There IS a big difference between exposing children to something and "forcing" it upon them. I don't believe there is a problem with "exposing" children to religion in public school. Indeed any lessons in History or what was called "social studies" when I went to school neccessarily would involve telling children about different religions from different parts of the world. Similarly any lessons on the Crusades would have to mention Christianity. I don't believe that there is any law against "mentioning" christianity or any other religion in public schools, but there are laws against "promoting" a specific religion. I believe these laws are good laws. The government, through the schools, should not promote any one religion above another.

I'm glad that when you think of religion you think of love, that's a very commendable outlook. But some people use their religion to teach that people who disagree with their outlook are going to "burn in hell", or some other exclusionary doctrine. That's the problem IMO with teaching religion in school. It's a very personal set of beliefs and the teachers take on religion might not agree with mine, or yours for that matter. I doubt many christians would be happy if their childs teacher happened to be a Muslim or a Jew, and taught their children that Jesus wasn't the son of God.

I do think there is a better way to teach your children that they are loved and how to love. It's called parenting. I believe that I am a loving and caring person and I didn't neccessarily learn that from religion. If you want your child to learn about religion you have many options. Take your child to church. If you feel that is not enough, get them active in church activities. If you want your child to learn about your religion daily, then you can enroll them in a private religious school. In my state there is even a school voucher program where you can recieve a voucher from the state to help you pay tuition at a private school.

And you can doubt that keeping religion from schools has any effect on our society, that is your right. But i respectfully disagree with you on that part. I think that their are valuable lessons to be learned from religion. (notice i didnt say christianity) And lets face it, with the way our children are behaving in this day and age, what could it hurt? Believe it or not, there is more love taught in religion than hate. More tolerance than not. Religion is getting a serious bad rap these days. And IMO that is becuase we have a very vocal minority, with an agenda, that is fighting tooth and nail to keep religion from our schools. Also,as it has been displayed in this forum, there are zealots in both camps.

I never said keeping religion out of our public schools did not have any effect on our society. Every choice we make has effects, usually both good and bad. I just feel that in the choice to not promote religion in our public schools, the good outweighs the bad. Indeed there are valuable lessons that can be learned from the various religions, I just don't think those lessons need to be learned in public school. I'm glad you feel that there is more love taught in religion than hate, and for the most part that is probably true.

In any issue discussed in our society it is often the "vocal minority" that gets the most press, and thus seems to represent the majority opinion. It's true that there are zealots who want to keep religion out of school, but it is equally true that there are zealots who want religion to dominate every aspect of our society. I suspect they are all in the minority.

Originally posted by Vilepagan


I'm glad that when you think of religion you think of love, that's a very commendable outlook. But some people use their religion to teach that people who disagree with their outlook are going to "burn in hell", or some other exclusionary doctrine. That's the problem IMO with teaching religion in school. It's a very personal set of beliefs and the teachers take on religion might not agree with mine, or yours for that matter. I doubt many christians would be happy if their childs teacher happened to be a Muslim or a Jew, and taught their children that Jesus wasn't the son of God.

I do think there is a better way to teach your children that they are loved and how to love. It's called parenting. I believe that I am a loving and caring person and I didn't neccessarily learn that from religion. If you want your child to learn about religion you have many options. Take your child to church. If you feel that is not enough, get them active in church activities. If you want your child to learn about your religion daily, then you can enroll them in a private religious school. In my state there is even a school voucher program where you can recieve a voucher from the state to help you pay tuition at a private school.

When i say "expose" religion to our children in school, i mean ALL religion. Expose the good points AND the bad points. Show how fundamental type fanatics try to force people to believe as they do. But also teach children the ideals of each particular religion. There "core" beliefs. Such as how christians believe that God loved his creations so much, he became flesh and actually died for our sins. Show how the Muslims believe that Jesus was a great prophet. Show what Buddhists believe. Teach them that there are people who believe there is no God. There are great lessons to be learned from all religions and cultures. As long as both sides of religion is shown, i believe that our children would not mind learning more about religion.

And i agree with your opinions about parenting. However, there are a lot of children out there who are not being shown love from a parent. What about those kids? Too many of them are falling through the cracks and becoming a damn statistic. Im tired of reading in my local newspaper almost daily about 15 year olds who are shot and killed. I know that simply teaching these kids about religion is not gonna save them all, but i believe it may be able to help some of them. Of course this is only my opinions, and we all have them.

wow, that 'prayer' has left me almost speechless. nobody is opposed to anyone being personally religious, atleast not anyone in their right mind. what people care about id fundementalist freaks like you preaching to others to join them and be saved. as an athiest, I take no offense when people practice their religions. they can pray in front of me, I don't give as fuck but I get really pissed when they try to convert me. and that utter bullshit about dresing lik freaks? that's absurd, you're being completely hypocritical. clothing should be the least of your worries. morals are defintiely ytaught in school. we're told not to kill, to stay out of toruble, no drugs, no phtsical fighting. what exactly is wrong with that? and the condoms? they're meant so that girls don't get pregnant. it's so beyond obvious that you're compltely off your rocker. that church you go to has bee nscrewing with your brain. leave now, be fore it';as too late.

Havok, everytime I protest religion in schools it is protesting the teaching that there is a god. When I went to a Catholic school for 2nd grade(curse my grandparents), when we had our spirituality lesson, it wasn't about loving one another, it was about how god exists, why you should obey god, why you should bow down to god. The moderates on this issue say fine, no prayer. Because, as it has been said, it isn't banning prayer, it's banning school led prayer. When I see somebody pressuring the issue to "get prayer back in schools" I generally see them complaining about their children learning about Darwin, about learning that science may explain some things, that god isn't everything. They want creationism taught, they want people teaching about why you should worship god. How many times have you seen anybody OTHER than a Christian press the issue to put god back in schools? Me, none.

Originally posted by WhammyBar
wow, that 'prayer' has left me almost speechless. nobody is opposed to anyone being personally religious, atleast not anyone in their right mind. what people care about id fundementalist freaks like you preaching to others to join them and be saved. as an athiest, I take no offense when people practice their religions.

Who are you talking to? While this board has its share of fundamentalist freaks, I don't see of them on this thread and I don't see how anyone was being preached to.

Fact of the matter is, the personal expression of religion in schools is often oppressed. Probably the number of times it happens due to zealot atheists (interesting concept that) is pretty small. The most likely causes are administrators afraid of lawsuits or just plain ignorant of the difference between school-sponsored and personal prayer.

Whammy, maybe teaching how not to kill, fight, get in trouble, and not do drugs, should be taken OUT of schools like God has been taken out, because it's not doing any good anyway. All this bull is still going on anyway. So far as condoms/birth control are concerned, if the little hot mamas keep their panties on, they wouldn't have to worry about that.

Was GOD ever a major part of public school teaching? This concept has only gotten more attention during recent years through various events and resulting media attention bordering on the hysteric.
Talk to virtually any "teacher" employed today in a public school and they'll tell you their job satisfaction has fallen to an all time low. Students are virtually uncontrollable and either unbelieveably demanding or pathologically apathetic. Parental involvement is about the same. The administrators are terrified of litigation and the student / parental body is merely waiting their opportunity for 15 min of fame.
There's a lot to be said for the "good old days" which, by the way, weren't all that long ago.

es, God wasn't a major part of teaching, but the controversy seem to have started when schools were ordered to stop saying the Pledge because it had the word God in it. Just what could saying the word God hurt? Ooooh! that is so dumb.

Whammy

take a chill pill no one here is pushing anything.

I think some of the problem with the debate is, are we talking about the religion, or are we concerned with the person in the religion. There are those that go way over board and scare others into a belief. Then there are those that just tell their feelings, big difference. The prayer doesn't push anyone into a belief and the kids do have the right not to say it. Es is correct I believe the media could be blamed for alot of blowing things out of proportion. Prove to me, even once, where saying the school prayer has hurt one child.......That's what I thought no one can.

Originally posted by M&Mdelite
es, God wasn't a major part of teaching, but the controversy seem to have started when schools were ordered to stop saying the Pledge because it had the word God in it. Just what could saying the word God hurt? Ooooh! that is so dumb.

The controversy should have started when they put the word "God" into the pledge in 1954. It was added during the McCarthy Era and people were afraid to speak out against it. The word doesn't belong in the Pledge of Allegiance because we are not "One Nation Under God". We are one nation, with many different beliefs. If you want to believe in God that's your right, and it's my right to teach my children that there is no god. It would be no different if we were change the pledge to read "One Nation Under Allah". So let's change it to say Allah instead of God...after all, what could it hurt?

actually, if there is any prayer said it will harm students. think about how alienating it would be for someone who doesn't beleive in something to be forced to sait through it. it's extremely discriminating. the'res absolutely nothing wrong with people saying their own iundividual pareys, as I've made clear befroe, the problem is with subjuecting other people to them. I take offense at it when I'm forced to sit through public praying when it's not called for. I don't need to listen to others praying in school, I'd rather spend the time learning then being set apart and alieneated from my peers even further. By not having prayers it gives everyone the choice to keep theri religious beleifs private. it's completely immoral to force someone to reveal what their religion is, and that's what prayer in school would do. it's a simple matter of respect and logic.

Vilepagan, it wouldn't bother me to say 'One Nation Under Allah', because I'd still know what I believe, and that's my whole debate...what would it hurt to say God.

We could just say, 'One Nation Under Condoms'
'One Nation Under Birth Control'
'One Nation Under Guns'

I bet that would be fine.

OK, maybe legally you're allowed to pray read the Bible and everything else...but when it comes down to it the teachers and administrators REALLY don't like it and find ways around these rules to make sure God doesn't intervene with school. This was really bad at my school, I was very much involved with FCA but they would always try to come up with some excuse as to why we couldn't use the gym or any other room for our meetings. One time we prayed before a cheerleading competition and our coach left and had a talk with us later that "not everyone is a christian", (school related function)

Originally posted by Vilepagan
The controversy should have started when they put the word "God" into the pledge in 1954. It was added during the McCarthy Era and people were afraid to speak out against it. The word doesn't belong in the Pledge of Allegiance because we are not "One Nation Under God". We are one nation, with many different beliefs. If you want to believe in God that's your right, and it's my right to teach my children that there is no god. It would be no different if we were change the pledge to read "One Nation Under Allah". So let's change it to say Allah instead of God...after all, what could it hurt?

First of all I would not say the Pledge of Allegiance if we said "One Nation Under Allah" that is retarded! Secondly, it doesn't say any God, it doesn't say the Christian God, it just says God. Every normal realistic person knows there is a God!

Better put your hip-boots on uga, the bullshit's going to start flying from all the professional athiests pretty quickly now.

Originally posted by M&Mdelite
It seems that God has been taken out of schools and are being replaced by weapons, condoms, and birth control pills.

oh come on... He is being replaced by those things? They dont allow weapons in school. They don't deny God in school. Your getting all mixed up here. It also sounded like you thought having condoms and birth control are a bad thing. Please tell me why

Every normal realistic person knows there is a God!
My belief is that there is no God. I firmly believe that and I am far more realistic than any person who has pure faith in a being that they cannot understand and by it's very definition is deemed unrealistic!

As for the Pledge of Allegience, that is just as bad as being taught dogma as a child. Being told something before you can understand it. That engrains it in your mind before you can critically analyze it.
The added 'Under God' should not be there. As was said before, we are not a nation under God. There are many in our nation who do not believe in God, but I'm not going to start up that debate on this thread.

Originally posted by ugababe117
First of all I would not say the Pledge of Allegiance if we said "One Nation Under Allah" that is retarded!
Equally "retarded" is saying "One Nation Under God" when the First Amendment clearly states "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."
Secondly, it doesn't say any God, it doesn't say the Christian God, it just says God.
This still excludes any atheistic belief systems, such as atheism, agnosticism, Buddhism, etc.
Every normal realistic person knows there is a God!
I could just as easily say "Every normal, realistic person knows there is a Santa Claus." and my argument would be equally valid as yours. How valid? Zero.

Btw, I consider myself quite normal and realistic, and I am an atheist.

Simply allowing students to carry and read their bible or say their prayers shouldn't hurt anybody. Have a comparative religion class is good for everyone. But I don't agree that you should learn what's right/wrong mainly from one religious teaching--it's not objective enough. You shouldn't teach children they should do this and that because the bible says so. The Pledge Allegiance mentions God probably because Chritianity was and is the most popular religion in the country, so most people weren't/aren't troubled by that. I think it's okay. And if "God" is taken out of it, it's fine with me too. Why are these things being regulated now? 1. lawsuits 2. an attempt to be more objective in public service sector such as education, trying not to involve religion is just one lazy but straightforward way to do that.

uga:
"Every normal realistic person knows there is a God"

No. Some people believe there is a God, and some do not. Some believe there are other beings, but not God. Some people believe there are many dieties, not one God. You miused four words in that sentence, imo: "every", "normal", "realistic", and "knows". The words "some" and "believe" are more accurate. If you say, "Some people think/believe there is a God", no one can argue with you!

Originally posted by WindWip
It also sounded like you thought having condoms and birth control are a bad thing. Please tell me why
There is nothing wrong with teaching children about birth control. They should know at the very least to use a condom. However, the main thing they should be learning about birth control is that abstinence is the ONLY way to completely prevent pregnancy and std's. Not only do they teach these children about birth control now, it seems that their is a sense that the teachers and parents are actually condoning these young kids having sex if they wear a condom. Its laughable really. If it were not for how its affecting our kids.

True enough. Sad thing is, it is nearly impossible to stop a teenager from having sex. Abstinence education is largely ineffective. Nothing wrong with it except for the fact that reason won't stop a raging hormone machine.

HaVoK: there are alternatives to abstinence in preventing pregnancy. At least one of them would prevent STD's as well.

Originally posted by es347fan
HaVoK: there are alternatives to abstinence in preventing pregnancy. At least one of them would prevent STD's as well. There are? I wasnt aware that there was another form of birth control 100% guaranteed to prevent both. What are they?

Mutual masturbation results in no pregnancy and no STD.
Oral coupulation results in no pregnancy.

Thank you Jedi Master.......

What is wrong with sex? You know that teens (myself included) have hormones and if you don't give a little guidance about it or just tell them not to, they'll still go about it. The only bad part about sex is the risks of pregnancy when you are not ready for it and stds. Condoms work pretty damn well and so do birth control. Yes there is risk, but there's just about as much chance as getting hit by a car on your way to the grocery store.

Nothing is wrong with sex. Teens aren't the only ones affected by raging hormones.

Originally posted by BorgHunter
Equally "retarded" is saying "One Nation Under God" when the First Amendment clearly states "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

This still excludes any atheistic belief systems, such as atheism, agnosticism, Buddhism, etc.

I could just as easily say "Every normal, realistic person knows there is a Santa Claus." and my argument would be equally valid as yours. How valid? Zero.

Btw, I consider myself quite normal and realistic, and I am an atheist.

Oh shove it, now you're just talking out of your a$$

Every normal realistic person knows there is a God! [/B]

wow. that's so biased it's not even funny. I'm an athiest, and it took years of thinking and questioning to get to the poiint where I felt totally certain that theyre isn't a god. and somehow I don't go around telling people who do beleive in god that they are unrealistic.

ugababe, what is your PROBLEM exaclty? you don't even talk rationally, you just insult people? why don't you ever have anything interesting or intelligent to say? why don't you even TRY TO PRETEND that you have something worth hearing?

She attempted at the begining, and I'm guessing got annoyed with the anti-fundie attitude around here.

Es, I should tell a friend of mine that... :D Let's see if a combination of that information and the jedi mind trick will be able to do something...

It appears we have taken it in solid agreement that there is nothing wrong with sex. I don't have anything to say...

Originally posted by sputnik
ugababe, what is your PROBLEM exaclty? you don't even talk rationally, you just insult people? why don't you ever have anything interesting or intelligent to say? why don't you even TRY TO PRETEND that you have something worth hearing?

what grade are you in?! That's what I thought, you wouldn't know an intelligent statement if it hit you in the face...now run along and play with your barbies.

Originally posted by Blibblob
She attempted at the begining, and I'm guessing got annoyed with the anti-fundie attitude around here.

Es, I should tell a friend of mine that... :D Let's see if a combination of that information and the jedi mind trick will be able to do something...

It appears we have taken it in solid agreement that there is nothing wrong with sex. I don't have anything to say...

Ok, sorry I can't post on here everyday to try and defend myself..I actually have something called a life!

Originally posted by ugababe117
Ok, sorry I can't post on here everyday to try and defend myself..I actually have something called a life!

If you have the time to be insulting, I suspect you also have the time to present an intelligent argument. You just choose not to and as a result your opinions will be regarded appropriately. When you post insults and ridicule people without justifying that ridicule in some way, you are just wasting your own time.

Why do you feel that atheists are "unrealistic"?

How in the hell do you think we, the earth, plants, animals got here in the first place. It wasn't magic!!!

Just because you don't have the brain capacity to figure out if something is an intelligent statement or not doesn't mean everything is stupid. Just don't talk to me, you really get on my nerves...wasn't I supposed to be on your ignore list...could we PLEASE go back to that!

Originally posted by ugababe117
How in the hell do you think we, the earth, plants, animals got here in the first place. It wasn't magic!!!

Just because you don't have the brain capacity to figure out if something is an intelligent statement or not doesn't mean everything is stupid. Just don't talk to me, you really get on my nerves...wasn't I supposed to be on your ignore list...could we PLEASE go back to that!

I don't believe that a supreme being snapped his fingers and "magically" created everything, you do. I believe in natural law. I'm sorry you feel the need to revert to insults ugababe, but you'll notice I didn't call you stupid. Is this an example of your "maturity"?

Originally posted by ugababe117
How in the hell do you think we, the earth, plants, animals got here in the first place. It wasn't magic!!!

That's a darn good point, and one athiests I think struggle to explain. On the other hand, can you explain where God came from? Did he just magically appear?

Sho did! Maybe I'm not that mature...I am 22 years old in college and in a sorority but I'm a hell of a lot more mature than you. F@ck off!

heh, i like how you follow 'I'm a hell of a lot more mature' with 'Fuck off'

As for religion, your faith in a supreme being with no substantiated basis is far more unrealistic than the scientific theories which have been presented to date. One including that the earth is a sphere, rather than the previously commonly acclaimed christian belief of a flat earth.

Now why is it easier to believe that a being that can do ANYTHING somehow appeared, rather than a bunch of matter having always existed?

Originally posted by ugababe117
what grade are you in?! That's what I thought, you wouldn't know an intelligent statement if it hit you in the face...now run along and play with your barbies.


don't fuck with sputnik. she's one of the smartest people I know, and she is definitely mature for our age. pety sorority catfighting techniques don't work around intelligent people honey, so go back and play with the barbie dolls you call friends.

Ugababe, you are just too hypocritical. I thought you didn't cuss? So why did you tell Pagan to "Fuck off"? Also, what is with you criticising the teenagers on this board for being younger than you saying they "wouldn't know an intelligent statement if it hit you in the face" when you seem to think that 5-year-olds can choose their own religion?

Ugababe, do you follow the archaic belief that with age comes wisdom?

And Lionel, you have been here long enough to know that we can explain quite well where plants and animals came from, we just can't explain what caused the "big bang", or whatever the hell theory that some other scientist has.

One thing I know is that the christian religion doesn't explain dinosaurs. Or do you take my aunts belief that the world is only 2000 and some odd years old, and they never existed.

Originally posted by Blibblob
we just can't explain what caused the "big bang", or whatever the hell theory that some other scientist has.


That's what I was talking about . . .

unfortunately for you, science has disproved every other religious belief. there is scientific proof for evolution, which erodes that most important Judeo/Christian belief that god created everything. science is still being advanced, religion is ocntenet to stay stuck in the past, and logic has caught up with it. if you wnat to hold beliefs totally unfounded in science then you are going to have to deal with the relaity that most of them can be easily disporved.

First off 14 year old girls shouldn't even be allowed on this board...I think they have proven this themselves...they resort to calling me and my sorority sisters barbies which is in no way an insult to us lol

Originally posted by ugababe117
First off 14 year old girls shouldn't even be allowed on this board...I think they have proven this themselves...they resort to calling me and my sorority sisters barbies which is in no way an insult to us lol

Ummm...ugababe...a barbie is an empty-headed plaything.

Obviously you haven't seen the Barbie movies

"First off 14 year old girls shouldn't even be allowed on this board...I think they have proven this themselves...they resort to calling me and my sorority sisters barbies which is in no way an insult to us lol"

ugababe, if you wanna dish it out you better learn to take it....

can you not handle the fact that 14 year old girls are smart and thoughtful enough to disagree with you? Uga, barbies are p;astic playthings. I've seen the movies, I babysit, and all she does is spin around in her ballet shoes and have big boobs. give me a break.

Originally posted by ugababe117
First off 14 year old girls shouldn't even be allowed on this board...I think they have proven this themselves...they resort to calling me and my sorority sisters barbies which is in no way an insult to us lol
IMO, self-righteous Xians with IQs that barely approach that of mayonnaise should not be allowed to even breed. But, then again, you haven't yet. So let's hope you keep that streak alive!

What if they called you "plastic fantastic trollops with a collective IQ in the single digits, incapable of independent thought, while going through college on daddy's dollar only in search of an MRS degree" would that be far off the mark?

lol exactly...we're all barbies and yea we do a lot of stupid $hit but when it comes to book smarts we're all over it...you kinda have to be smart to get into uga and maintain an A average lol

You're 14 years old, do you even have boobs lol I'm 22 years old don't talk to me because I won't even pay you the slightest attention anymore so go ahead and whine...

Could we PLEASE lock this...this has gone WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY off topic, and quite frankly I'm tired of babysitting

Originally posted by ugababe117
Could we PLEASE lock this...this has gone WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY off topic, and quite frankly I'm tired of babysitting

If you don't want threads to go off topic uga, stop telling everyone they're stupid and need to grow up. You impress no one and antagonize everyone with that kind of behavior. There isn't anyone on this forum that you need to babysit so get off it and stop whining to the moderators to lock threads just because you're pissing everyone off. If you want to post something on topic go ahead, but don't be surprised if people respond with anger when you belittle them or their ideas.

I'm sorry I didn't know I was talking to you...I have the right to belittle people like you...anyways...back on topic...prayer shouldn't be frowned upon in school.

It would seem to me that as one posting a message, you're talking to everyone that might read your post.

Individual, private prayer is not frowned upon. Prayer events sponsored by public institutions are against the rules.

Uga, how could it ever be right to force religion on people? with the freedom of religion our country has, we also have a freedom from religion, which is essential to the way the U.S. is run. if someone has a problem with a person praying privately without disturbing other people than they are just as bad as those who think that there must be prayer in schools. any time someone does not do what the groups is doing it creates a social stigma, even more so in school, becasue, quite frankly, some adoloescents are not very mature and will belittle anyone not exactly like them. just today I was questioned as to why I choose not to stand for the pledge in the morning. luckily, noone really bothers me about it, but the situation could be much worse. if I was forced to sit through a public prayer in school it would make me feel not only uncomfortable but offended. there's absolutely no reason why those who want to pray on their own can't do it without bothering those around them who really don't want to.

and to reply to what you said earleir, booksmarts mean nothing. and yes, I jhave breats, puberty usually sets in around age 11 0r 12 for girls, but I'm assuming you missed that talk becasue your lovely catholic school thought it an innapropriate topic for discussion.

It's about time we had a little "cultural warfare" (as the Regal Right likes to call it) here in America....why not?

The lingering, outdated puritanical ethics of yore are irrelevant and, in fact, harmful to the enlightenment of American society.
We are modern people; we need good science and compassionate philosophy far more than we need to cling to religious dogma, which has retarded our human progress.

Americans are being "had" by a souless, greedy, capitalist system wherein the majority worship at the altar of money and materialism. We need salvation alright, but nothing "the church" can do will bring it, for it has, ironically, only added to the contamination of the human spirit through its godless misinterpretation of the Biblical scriptures as a way to control minds and grab power.

We're do for a social revolution, and it won't be won by Old Religion.

Originally posted by eyeful
It's about time we had a little "cultural warfare" (as the Regal Right likes to call it) here in America....why not?

The lingering, outdated puritanical ethics of yore are irrelevant and, in fact, harmful to the enlightenment of American society.
We are modern people; we need good science and compassionate philosophy far more than we need to cling to religious dogma, which has retarded our human progress.

Americans are being "had" by a souless, greedy, capitalist system wherein the majority worship at the altar of money and materialism. We need salvation alright, but nothing "the church" can do will bring it, for it has, ironically, only added to the contamination of the human spirit through its godless misinterpretation of the Biblical scriptures as a way to control minds and grab power.

We're do for a social revolution, and it won't be won by Old Religion.

That's a mouthful, eyeful :D

Yikes, why do discussions turn political so easily here in the US...?

Originally posted by Vilepagan
That's a mouthful, eyeful :D

Or would that be an eyefull, mouthull....or maybe an earfull, eyefull....or maybe an mouthfull, earfull....or a handfull, eyefull...or eyefull, handfull. Oh heck what was the user name again :p :D :D

Originally posted by Dio Seijuro
Yikes, why do discussions turn political so easily here in the US...?

I think it's a sign that there are a lot of people pretty disgusted with the political state of affairs in this country.

Whoops...I thought the topic was religion!

Sadly, we cannot have a discussion about religion in America without talking about politics, thanks to the Religious Right who are hellbent on "saving" America through seizing control of government.

The AFA (American Family Association) is a good example. I call them "PRIGS"...People for Religion In Government and Schools...

Originally posted by Vilepagan
I think it's a sign that there are a lot of people pretty disgusted with the political state of affairs in this country.

Or a sign that some people have no life.

ga, how could it ever be right to force religion on people?

whoa whoa whoa slow down hun...i NEVER tried to force my religion on anyone!

and to reply to what you said earleir, booksmarts mean nothing. and yes, I jhave breats, puberty usually sets in around age 11 0r 12 for girls, but I'm assuming you missed that talk becasue your lovely catholic school thought it an innapropriate topic for discussion. You don't know crap about catholic school...and personally I REALLY don't want to hear about what your "breasts"

I never tried to make anyone become a christian, if you don't want to be one that is totally and completely fine w/ me!

Originally posted by es347fan
What if they called you "plastic fantastic trollops with a collective IQ in the single digits, incapable of independent thought, while going through college on daddy's dollar only in search of an MRS degree" would that be far off the mark?

First off, NOTHING on me is fake, secondly I'm willing to be a lot that I'm way smarter than you think I am, the only thing you got right would be my dad's money...which is in no way wrong!!!

" ... me is fake, secondly I'm willing to be a lot that I'm way smarter than you think I am ... "

The phrase "plastic fantastic" has nothing to do with surgical augmentation.
Additionally, thanks for confirming your overwhelming intelligence. Your school should be proud.

I never tried to make anyone become a christian, if you don't want to be one that is totally and completely fine w/ me! [/B]

then why do u act as if iut's a moral crime that some of the people on this board don't believe in god?

because I just don't see how you can't be a Christian, I mean it just makes sense to ME...I know everybody doesn't see it like I do and that's fine...I really don't care.

And the whole thing about me representing my school...I am involved with so many things at my school...and I will graduate within the top of my class. like 25,000 people are at uga...do you know how smart that is!?

uga, we don't care about your personal achievements, we don't care about your bragging about how you're going to graduate in the top of your class, we don't care what you are involved in in college. All we're doing is looking out for you, making sure you make the right choices, not telling you what's absolutely right or absolutely wrong...so stop making us look like the bad guys and girls in here!

Are you serious?! So they can go around and call me stupid but as soon as I try to prove to them I'm not I get yelled at! They've been doing the same thing I have if not worse but I get yelled at!?! LOOK OUT FOR ME?!!!!! Are you out of your mind?! There has not been one person who has tried to "look out for me" lol they've taken everything I've said way too seriously...just forget it. Obviously I'm the only one who is in the wrong here according to silverbulletkc...

This is what debating and panel discussion is all about...you voice your opinion, we voice ours...joke a little along the way and all is good...and I never said you were in the wrong either.

So they can go around and call me stupid but as soon as I try to prove to them I'm not I get yelled at!
Bragging about your school and how much older you are than people on this board does NOT prove you are smart. Much of what you have said just shows how much more incompetent you are. Who the hell cares if you are going to graduate at the top of your class? What do you call a medical student who graduates with a 2.0? Doctor, what do you call a medical student who graduates with a 4.0? Doctor, it doesn't mean shit. The people at the top of my class at my school are complete idiots. It takes a week or so to slam a simple concept into their brain, they do their homework. The people I know who could answer almost any question you have about what is going on have less than 3.0s.

Obviously I'm the only one who is in the wrong here according to silverbulletkc...
I don't say you are in the wrong. I just think you are snotty, uptight, braggish, and archaic. Ok... maybe...

uga, noone attacks you personally until you attack them. everyone attacks your ideas. there's a big diference there. and iwht the whole christinaity thing, just becasue it makes sesne to you doesn't mean it happens to make sense for everyone. I can't see any logical reason to believe in something such as god without proof, but I would never think of telling other people that their thinking is wrong. not everyone is going to think the same way as you, and one of the big problems of Christianity is that you guys can't accept that.

Originally posted by ugababe117
Are you serious?! So they can go around and call me stupid but as soon as I try to prove to them I'm not I get yelled at! They've been doing the same thing I have if not worse but I get yelled at!?! LOOK OUT FOR ME?!!!!! Are you out of your mind?! There has not been one person who has tried to "look out for me" lol they've taken everything I've said way too seriously...just forget it. Obviously I'm the only one who is in the wrong here according to silverbulletkc...

Ugababe, I don't think anyone here has called people stupid more than you. There isn't one person on this board who will not willingly discuss any topic with you, but there is also no one who will not respond in kind when you laugh at them, call them stupid, or tell them they need to grow up. If you feel you are being singled out, just look at the past posts and see who began the insults in most of the threads.

Believe it or not ugababe, there have been many times that people have tried to "look out for you". I've given you suggestions in previous posts about not insulting people, and I've seen other people tell you to calm down and stop being so insulting. You're not the only person who's been in the wrong, I myself have said things I regretted later. As far as taking things way to seriously, you have taken jokes people have said and pretended to be insulted. I know you don't think I believe republicans are as bad as serial killers, or that any members of your family are serial killers but instead of "LOL that was funny" it was "LOL your way off". So who's taking stuff too seriously?

When you try to "prove" something in one of your posts you have a tendency to say "I know its true" without offering any reasons why, or you will say "if you're not a believer you wouldn't understand" without trying to make the other person understand. This is just another way of saying "I think you're too stupid to understand". If you want peoples respect, and want them to believe you're not stupid, stop insulting people and back up your opinions with explanations and examples.

Perhaps ugababe is simply shorthand for ugababe, et al, and we're viewing the combined efforts of Sigma Peachpit Phi.

Hmmmm....why would people "who have no life" give a rat's ass about religion or politics?

Are you saying that people who take a couple minutes to post an opinion have "no life"?

No comprende, amigo....

Originally posted by es347fan
Perhaps ugababe is simply shorthand for ugababe, et al, and we're viewing the combined efforts of Sigma Peachpit Phi. You are truly always good for a laugh out of me ES........

Originally posted by eyeful
Hmmmm....why would people "who have no life" give a rat's ass about religion or politics?

Are you saying that people who take a couple minutes to post an opinion have "no life"?

No comprende, amigo....

No, I'm saying that people that think everything is a political issue, people that spend all of their waking moments surfing the internet for anti-Bush propaganda, and people that only post in political forums and seemingly have no other interests in their life have no life.

Oh sh**, that's it, I'm going to call myself names, that way I can beat Uga to the punch. Here it goes, mad dog you are an immature dumb a**, idiot with no sense of reality. You don't know anything and your always wrong so stop bothering me with your dumb sh**.

There now I feel better anyone else want to call me names? the floor is wide open.

No, mad dog, you got it wrong again! You've got to say that with an "edjukated" southern drawl, while wearing a Sigma Peachpit Phi toga, holding a southern baptist bible in your left hand, the right outstretched and pointing with an accusing finger, while stamping your right foot (to keep your chant in time). Be certain to maintain an accusatory tone, glaring down your proboscis while doing so.

Originally posted by LionelHutz
No, I'm saying that people that think everything is a political issue, people that spend all of their waking moments surfing the internet for anti-Bush propaganda

>>> why so prone to exaggeration? honestly, who spends all their "waking moments" surfing the net? what are you doing surfing the net? what are any of us doing here? the fact that the internet has become the single most important vehicle for news, information, entertainment and social discourse in America could be why people are logged-on. Thankfully, the net has weened many of us from our TVs!

As for trolling the net to find anti-Bush "propoganda", one needn't look very far to find clear evidence of his incompetence, political chicanery, arrogance, and blattant wrongdoing.
If you call news that researches and reports these things "propoganda", again, you're either naive, ill-informed, or simply playing America's favorite game: partisan politics! If news is "propoganda" when all it's doing is reporting what you don't want to hear, you're misusing the word.

and people that only post in political forums and seemingly have no other interests in their life have no life.

>>>> that's just weird logic! (or is it propoganda?)

Originally posted by es347fan
No, mad dog, you got it wrong again! You've got to say that with an "edjukated" southern drawl, while wearing a Sigma Peachpit Phi toga, holding a southern baptist bible in your left hand, the right outstretched and pointing with an accusing finger, while stamping your right foot (to keep your chant in time). Be certain to maintain an accusatory tone, glaring down your proboscis while doing so.

no, es, now YOU'VE got it wrong! if mad dog is holding a bible in one hand and pointing an accusing finger with the other, how is he going to hold his beer? he'll have to get one of those beer-hats.

ahhhh the foam dome....

Sputnik - have you NO upbringing or culture??? Staid, upright, honest & true bible thumping southern baptists NEVER ( ever, ever, ever) imbibe alcoholic spirits (while in public). Were you not a yanqui heathen, (aren't all yanquis?) you would be publicly humiliated by the distinguished members of Sigma Peachpit Phi in front of the entire cheerleading squad, of which, of course, they are all members.

They keep their embarrasing behaviors behind closed doors like all good hypocrites should do. How else could they attend services thrice weekly with their heads held high?

Wow you really know nothing about sororties, cheerleading squads, or southern baptists. We hardly ever drink behind doors if we are drinking which by the way isn't ALL the time like you have been saying. You have not met EVERY southern baptist so you CAN NOT say southern baptists in general are hypocrites.

Nobody, including me, on any of my cheerelading squads or any of the girls in the sorority I'm in have EVER been caught or punished for something like that...we are VERY proud of oursevles and that's the way it will remain...we have NOTHING to be ashamed of.

Don't need to meet each & every one to spot a trend.

Originally posted by es347fan
Don't need to meet each & every one to spot a trend.

You certainly do.

A sample is all that is needed to spot a trend.