Not exactly...... Not in my opinion anyways... I think the democratic nomination battle has been so vicious between Obama,and Hillary that simply teaming them up is not a automatic quick fix. there is still a huge rift in the democratic party. alot of bad feelings with the candidates and the voters still remain. This 'dream ticket' is not a quick solution for a number of reasons.

First of all,Obama's whole platform is about change. it is about the people taking back what is thiers and not electing the same ol' same ol' politicians. Having Hillary on the ticket would contradict at least in a small part his views of change.

The democratic party does have ground to make up against the republicans. I am not saying it is going to be an impossible battle,but for the better part of two months,it was clear to alot of people that Obama was going to get the nod. It would be close,but yeah it was pretty much clear. Hillary and her stubbornness has hurt her party. Today is the first day Obama,and the DNC can finally focus all their attention on McCain. As I said.... they have ground to make up,and Hillary is to blame.

If Hillary gets the invite to the big dance,then Bill is going to tag along. I think very few people would view this as a blessing for the democrats chances. I think one of the biggest reasons Obama is sitting where he is,was the voters wanted an end to the bush/Clinton/bush/Clinton dynasty. How is it going to look if Obama allows half of that political monopoly to enjoy 4 or even 8 more years in the white house.

But when I look at it,how could Obama NOT want Hillary. I mean their battle was SO SO SO close,if they join forces why wouldn't all those votes come together? Or would some people on the left simply not vote if they have to choose a ticket with Hilary,or Obama? Would independent voters with a strong dislike of Hilary or Obama vote republican? Will the divide on the democratic side finally open the eyes of the republicans and have them finally accept McCain,thus solidify the party?


ALSO... I seen a short list of people Obama could be looking at for the VP slot. I dont know if the list was from Obamas camp or the news outlets opinion who is being looked at.
Besides Bill Richardson,the field was very weak. Coming from someone who screams about change,the average age of those on the list was 65. Almost all of them with 30 plus years of politics under their belt... Not much of a change from the same ol same ol tickets we have seen huh?

I don't think the dems need to catch up, I think it's Obama's election to lose and so far, he's run an excellent campaign. McCain still has problems in his own party and I think the excitement from the dems will be palpable and influence the indy vote more than McCain. I'm hoping Obama chooses Richardson, I think picking Hillary could be seen as somewhat hypocritical for a candidate preaching change.

I don't think the dems need to catch up,.

oh but they do. it is simple. What do you think McCains camp has been doing all this time. Preparing. it has been hard for Obama to focus on McCain when he has been fighting for his life against hillary. think of it through a sports point of view. McCain pretty much got a bye to the championship game,and Obama went the full distance of the series to get to the championship game. It isnt going to take long for Obama to get back on track and level with McCain,but any advantage McCain has in being prepared for the fight,is because of Hillary's stubbornness

I think it's Obama's election to lose and so far, he's run an excellent campaign.. he has ran an excellent nomination campaign. The general election campaign is going to be a little different. More of a no holds bared slug fest. When your fighting within your own party for the nod,the gloves kinda stay on for the most part. Alot of issues are taboo and not mentioned.

McCain still has problems in his own party .. Yes,but since the republicans have viewed the Democratic party being torn apart the past several months,i am pretty sure they are all on board to win the general election,meaning they are all on the same page

and I think the excitement from the dems will be palpable and influence the indy vote more than McCain. .. Or the long drawn out battle of Obama and Hillary is going to turn off the indy voters. Alot of people look at the democrats as very divided. I think a portion of the indy voters may vote right just for the solid structure.

I'm hoping Obama chooses Richardson,.
Well that can backfire or can be helpful. Richardson is a good choice,but his views on immigration is going to fuel the ignorant hate alot of people have in this country and possibly push them to the right. I agree McCains views on immigration are not very harsh,but Richardson is after all Hispanic,and does come with potential scandal baggage.

I think picking Hillary could be seen as somewhat hypocritical for a candidate preaching change.

i agree,but you know in recent history the
Democrats have had a tendency of shooting themselves in the foot. Obama picking Hillary,thus destroying his notion of change is pretty typical of the decisions the Dem's have put out over the last few elections.

I'm personally not interested one lick about what democrats say
or implore they'll do.Their LIARS.
Flat-out,Bald-faced and every which way butts the God's
honest truth.Can you honestly tell us ALL when a democrat
made good on any of their Campaign Promises.
They are and will remain,even more so :
- The Party of Sham -.

Besides Bill Richardson,the field was very weak. Coming from someone who screams about change,the average age of those on the list was 65. Almost all of them with 30 plus years of politics under their belt... Not much of a change from the same ol same ol tickets we have seen huh?

Richardson would be a big mistake for a few of reasons ...

Some people would have a problem with 2 minorities on the same ticket (not me)

Richardson can barely deliver his own state for the candidate ... check his record.

He was on one of the talk shows this evening and even though Hillary is now out, he continued to destroy her with totally demeaning comments, simply pounding on her with what appeared to be raw hatred for the woman. Dovetail that with the fact many women already see him as a judas for endorsing BO.

If Obama wants to see women run for the doors, put Richardson on the ticket.

Willie would be keeping Obama up all night by have interns delivering pizza down the hall-the man needs his sleep incase the phone rings at 3am:lolhit:

Or the long drawn out battle of Obama and Hillary is going to turn off the indy voters. Alot of people look at the democrats as very divided. I think a portion of the indy voters may vote right just for the solid structure.


IIRC - JM lost the republican vote in the Florida primary to Romney yet still won the state due to the independents.

JM lost the republican vote in the SC primary to Huckabee yet still won the state due to independents.

He will do well with indy's in the general election ... another problem for Obama

I have to admit, the very first thing I thought way back when everyone was almost assured Obama would wrap it up as the nominee was that him and Hillary together would be unbeatable. But since then, I've thought about it some, and I just do not see it as being a good idea for him. Mainly due to all the baggage that would come with her. Bill, for one. Also, she is a straight up main-line democrat. Not good since he is promoting change so much.

Oh yeah, and him giving into a woman would be seen as a sign of weakness ;)
j/k lol

Mainly due to all the baggage that would come with her. Bill, for one. Also, she is a straight up main-line democrat. Not good since he is promoting change so much.

Yeah, 18 million primary voters is some serious baggage ...

and, Bill who during his presidency created 22 million jobs and created more wealth than any president in history ... more baggage ... LOL

Yeah, 18 million primary voters is some serious baggage ...

and, Bill who during his presidency created 22 million jobs and created more wealth than any president in history ... more baggage ... LOL

22 million jobs ...eh? Proilly service type jobs that may have been
oversea's.The way dat guy takes credit fer stuff.
Any Boom on Wall Street had nothing to do with Clinton.
More so with a burgeoning new internet/tech sector and new
Congress in '94 that was going to LOWER the capital gains
rate and taxes in general.Along with a Balanced Budget Amendment.
Clinton Purposedly let a Recession,creep into his waning days as
Chief Executive.I woulda saw to it that he personally scrub every inch
of all bathrooms,in the White House,before final departure.

Yeah, 18 million primary voters is some serious baggage ...

and, Bill who during his presidency created 22 million jobs and created more wealth than any president in history ... more baggage ... LOL


Most of which said that they are going to vote for McCain instead of Obama now that Hilary isn't the nominee.

Bill is baggage, he was baggage for Hilary during her campaign. He would cause way too many problems. You think Obama really wants to give a key to the White House to Bill? He would have to if Hilary was the VP. He'd be hanging off of her coat tails for the entire term.

Meh, talk is cheap. Democrats saying they'd vote for McCain over Obama will probably change their opinion after Obama clowns McCain in the debates. Just my opinion, of course. :)

Most of which said that they are going to vote for McCain instead of Obama now that Hilary isn't the nominee.
That's actually a really childish stance for them to take. Hopefully those people will grow out of it by November.

Meh, talk is cheap. Democrats saying they'd vote for McCain over Obama will probably change their opinion after Obama clowns McCain in the debates. Just my opinion, of course. :)

are completely misreading this one ...

these Hillary supporters that threatened to vote for McCain are, for the most part, not kidding. They're mostly older females who are well set in life. They have their retirement, their social security, their medicare and a very stable life.

It's not like they are 30 years old and raising a family of 4 and have all the issues of mortages, car payments, college expenses, shaky jobs ... whatever.

They have nothing to gain or lose by McCain being president. They probably couldn't care less about tax rates because they have (hopefully) positioned themselves properly and they certainly don't have to worry about being drafted should that happen.

In a nutshell, it's not Obama himself that will cost him the election - it will be the Obama supporters that simply cannot get over their hatred for Hillary and now foolishly are practically daring her to isolate her supporters.

Some of the BO supporters I've talked to (mostly young people) claim he doesn't need Hillary's support ... he has enough blacks and young people to propel him right into the white house.... baby jesus can't lose and this Titanic can't be sunk.

When speaking with his supporters, I often want to ask if they ever heard of the 'Bay of Pigs' and could they explain the circumstances of that event and if it had any relevancy to the 'Cuban Missle Crisis'. but I hold back because I know it would go right over their heads.

The sad part is ... the BO supporters will hand us another 4 years of republican control.

Meh, talk is cheap. Democrats saying they'd vote for McCain over Obama will probably change their opinion after Obama clowns McCain in the debates. Just my opinion, of course. :)
Obama is great at speeches, but when he has to think & speeak on his feet, he brings Dan Quayle to mind.

That's actually a really childish stance for them to take. Hopefully those people will grow out of it by November.

Well, you would hope. It's amazing what people will do out of spite though.

Obama is great at speeches, but when he has to think & speeak on his feet, he brings Dan Quayle to mind.

Obama consistently out-performed Hillary in the debates and it's definitely not McCain's strong point.

are completely misreading this one ...

these Hillary supporters that threatened to vote for McCain are, for the most part, not kidding. They're mostly older females who are well set in life. They have their retirement, their social security, their medicare and a very stable life.

It's not like they are 30 years old and raising a family of 4 and have all the issues of mortages, car payments, college expenses, shaky jobs ... whatever.

They have nothing to gain or lose by McCain being president. They probably couldn't care less about tax rates because they have (hopefully) positioned themselves properly and they certainly don't have to worry about being drafted should that happen.

In a nutshell, it's not Obama himself that will cost him the election - it will be the Obama supporters that simply cannot get over their hatred for Hillary and now foolishly are practically daring her to isolate her supporters.

Some of the BO supporters I've talked to (mostly young people) claim he doesn't need Hillary's support ... he has enough blacks and young people to propel him right into the white house.... baby jesus can't lose and this Titanic can't be sunk.

When speaking with his supporters, I often want to ask if they ever heard of the 'Bay of Pigs' and could they explain the circumstances of that event and if it had any relevancy to the 'Cuban Missle Crisis'. but I hold back because I know it would go right over their heads.

The sad part is ... the BO supporters will hand us another 4 years of republican control.

Time heals all wounds.

Time heals all wounds.

but -- not this time ... sorry.

but -- not this time ... sorry.
time wounds all heals?

The conventional wisdom holds that Obama and especially his
wife,don't like the Clinton's.And for Hillary to be a V.P. means
she will have to abide,totally,without regard to anything else,to
the exclusive wishes of her new boss,The President.She'll be
responsible for attending Funerals and basically steering clear of
any direct duties.The V.P. office is actually within about 50
feet of the Oval Office.Not to be confused with Cheney and his
desired residence in the old executive office bldg.
The real problem with even considering Hillary,is the vetting of
Bill.He'll have to be vetted for any connections and fundraising and
donations made to his Library.Bill doesn't want that,and therefore
Hillary won't either.
Obama doesn't want to have his Presidency,sidetracked by any
Bill shenanigans,also.If Bill makes the headlines,Obama can't take
time out to field questions about his V.P.'s hubby and the former
Pres.

If I'm not mistaken, Hillary announced today that she does not want to be VP

At least that's what an article on yahoo said.

.....it's not Obama himself that will cost him the election - it will be the Obama supporters that simply cannot get over their hatred for Hillary...........

That hatred you're talking about --for Hillary and for anything associated in the slightest way with the name *Clinton*-- is one of the most amazing things ever produced by the Corporate Media in this country. It has been a 16 year long process to give birth to it, to bring it to fruition, to nourish it, to ceaselessly feed it every minute of every day, to see it take root and grow into the immense proportions which it now has.

And we now see it bearing the most incredible fruit imaginable for the Neo-Cons who brought it into existence; the rejection of Hillary Clinton as a candidate and the embrace, instead, of a black person who was raised in Indonesia, whose father was a radical Muslim, whose preacher shouts 'God Damn America!' and whose middle name is Hussein.

Can you for one minute imagine the tremendous satisfaction, the insane glee and the sense of victory that the top level RepubliFascist party leaders must feel at this moment in time, seeing the Democrats --thanks to the seeds of Clinton hatred that were planted long, long ago-- commit political suicide in the way they've just done?!?!?!?

If I'm not mistaken, Hillary announced today that she does not want to be VP

At least that's what an article on yahoo said.

As i write this she and Obama are having a special,tete a tete.
The one the media hoped for yesterday.
So,by tomorrow morn,maybe they'll be some breaking news.
This special meeting was unannounced and Major Garrett broke it on
Greta,just minutes ago.

Bill is baggage, he was baggage for Hilary during her campaign. He would cause way too many problems. You think Obama really wants to give a key to the White House to Bill? He would have to if Hilary was the VP. He'd be hanging off of her coat tails for the entire term.

http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/bok/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/080605boklores.jpg

That hatred you're talking about --for Hillary and for anything associated in the slightest way with the name *Clinton*-- is one of the most amazing things ever produced by the Corporate Media in this country. It has been a 16 year long process to give birth to it, to bring it to fruition, to nourish it, to ceaselessly feed it every minute of every day, to see it take root and grow into the immense proportions which it now has.

And we now see it bearing the most incredible fruit imaginable for the Neo-Cons who brought it into existence; the rejection of Hillary Clinton as a candidate and the embrace, instead, of a black person who was raised in Indonesia, whose father was a radical Muslim, whose preacher shouts 'God Damn America!' and whose middle name is Hussein.

Can you for one minute imagine the tremendous satisfaction, the insane glee and the sense of victory that the top level RepubliFascist party leaders must feel at this moment in time, seeing the Democrats --thanks to the seeds of Clinton hatred that were planted long, long ago-- commit political suicide in the way they've just done?!?!?!?

Well said. I have heard many people say " I can't stand that woman!". But then have nothing to back it up.

As i write this she and Obama are having a special,tete a tete.
.

the way I hear it,Hillary is demanding help from Obama repaying the 12 million she loaned herself,to stay in the campaign for so long after her defeat was clear. Seems if she cant raise the money on her own by late August,rules have it that she can only collect 250k.

what a bitter pill it is for Obama,battle scared and tired, from fighting Hillary way past the point he should of had to, to give her part of her lost monies she used to make his political life hell.

Obama,so happy to hear her camp even talk of defeat is going to jump at the chance too and pay her the money just so he can finally put his fight with her in his rear view mirror.

I think Hillary knew exactly what she was going,and stayed in way past her time,to use her departure as a bargaining piece,to get back some of that fortune.

Would be nice to see Obama,give her the ol' thumb to the nose and tell her to hit the bricks.

... Would be nice to see Obama,give her the ol' thumb to the nose and tell her to hit the bricks.

Agreed.

the way I hear it,Hillary is demanding help from Obama repaying the 12 million she loaned herself,to stay in the campaign for so long after her defeat was clear. Seems if she cant raise the money on her own by late August,rules have it that she can only collect 250k.

what a bitter pill it is for Obama,battle scared and tired, from fighting Hillary way past the point he should of had to, to give her part of her lost monies she used to make his political life hell.

Obama,so happy to hear her camp even talk of defeat is going to jump at the chance too and pay her the money just so he can finally put his fight with her in his rear view mirror.

I think Hillary knew exactly what she was going,and stayed in way past her time,to use her departure as a bargaining piece,to get back some of that fortune.

Would be nice to see Obama,give her the ol' thumb to the nose and tell her to hit the bricks.

The scuttlebut had it more than a month ago,that Hillary was in
debt.Had to use her own small fortune to pay staffers and keep
going.I believe she was in debt,to the tune of between 15-20 $Million
as of the last 6 weeks.That could be why she hasn't conceded and
used the official Campaign term - Suspend -. It means she hasn't
officially dropped out and therefore can still accept donations.
But it also means she isn't turning over her delegates,either.
The day she Officially calls it quits,her fundraising and ability
to take campaign donations is cut off.

The scuttlebut had it more than a month ago,that Hillary was in
debt.Had to use her own small fortune to pay staffers and keep
going.I believe she was in debt,to the tune of between 15-20 $Million
as of the last 6 weeks.That could be why she hasn't conceded and
used the official Campaign term - Suspend -. It means she hasn't
officially dropped out and therefore can still accept donations.
But it also means she isn't turning over her delegates,either.
The day she Officially calls it quits,her fundraising and ability
to take campaign donations is cut off.

i really doubt she misses the money. i also doubt that that she'll be unable to make that up on the lecture circuit in the next 4 years.

One reason that Hillary might not be selected has the VP is the financial disclosure problem. Obama would require he disclose the donors from Bill Clinton's Presidential Library and the financial earnings for Bill Clinton's last 8 years. This could be embarrasssing.
A more likely choice will be choosing another woman who has a support from Barak's campaign like Caroline Kennedy. Much less baggage but still a way of offering an olive branch for the those who wanted a woman.

Your interesting but embarrassing making an income, what could be bad with that. To little income or to much?

If he was following tax laws; know one shouldn't be embarrassed.

I would be more in favor of Hillary for VP if she wasn't still married to Bill.

I would be more in favor of Hillary for VP if she wasn't still married to Bill.
After this, I wouldn't be surprised if she divorced him now that he's proved to be a political impediment.

i really doubt she misses the money. i also doubt that that she'll be unable to make that up on the lecture circuit in the next 4 years.

The one given about those who make millions,especially new Money
like an Oprah or a Rush,is their peevish inclination to increase or by all
means at least maintain.It's the snob appeal.Wealthy don't wanna lose
their wealth { Net Worth } status.Yes,Hillary is VERY preoccupied
with making up her campaign debt.Plus, let's not forget she's
an Elected official.She has a paid responsibility to Be a Senator.
She can't just run around and take money on a lecture circuit.
In fact,there might even be a rule,an an elected official of
conflict of interest.I'm not sure she can take money for a
lecturing as a sitting senator.

The one given about those who make millions,especially new Money
like an Oprah or a Rush,is their peevish inclination to increase or by all
means at least maintain.It's the snob appeal.Wealthy don't wanna lose
their wealth { Net Worth } status.Yes,Hillary is VERY preoccupied
with making up her campaign debt.Plus, let's not forget she's
an Elected official.She has a paid responsibility to Be a Senator.
She can't just run around and take money on a lecture circuit.
In fact,there might even be a rule,an an elected official of
conflict of interest.I'm not sure she can take money for a
lecturing as a sitting senator.
Senators do it all the time.:bike:

Senators do it all the time.:bike:

Wrong thar mr.Michelle my Belle.
From the 1978 Ethics in Government Act ,Representatives and
Senaotrs are LIMITED to 15% in excess of their yearly Congressional
salaries.it's called Honoraria.Members and their staff are NOT
allowed to accept " honoraria " for speaking at events.Enacted under
the Ethics Reform Act of 1989.
What utter bright stuff ya got.

Wrong thar mr.Michelle my Belle.
From the 1978 Ethics in Government Act ,Representatives and
Senaotrs are LIMITED to 15% in excess of their yearly Congressional
salaries.it's called Honoraria.Members and their staff are NOT
allowed to accept " honoraria " for speaking at events.Enacted under
the Ethics Reform Act of 1989.
What utter bright stuff ya got.
ok, i'm working off old info...Bill will have to do it then.:p

I would be more in favor of Hillary for VP if she wasn't still married to Bill.

Like would it be ok if they were just dating or living together? What is it exactly that you have against the 2 of them being married and honoring their vows when they agreed to ... "for better or for worse".

Like would it be ok if they were just dating or living together? What is it exactly that you have against the 2 of them being married and honoring their vows when they agreed to ... "for better or for worse".

Exactly! would people have respected her more if she left Bill? No, they would be saying "oh my look at her, she has no forgiveness in her! She's a bitch!". With some people she can't win either way!

Here's why I don't think Obama can choose Clinton:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2DECDKOFnw

How can you run with a VP who says you're not qualified?

1. James McDougal - Clinton's convicted Whitewater partner died of an apparent heart attack, while in solitary confinement. He was a key witness in Ken Starr's investigation.

2. Mary Mahoney - A former White House intern was murdered July 1997 at a Starbucks Coffee Shop in Georgetown. The murder happened just after she was to go public with her story of sexual harassment in the White House.

3. Vince Foster - Former white House councelor, and colleague of Hillery Clinton at Little Rock's Rose law firm. Died of a gunshot wound to the head, ruled a suicide.

4. Ron Brown - Secretary of Commerce and former DNC Chairman. Reported to have died by impact in a plane crash. A pathologist close to the investigation reported that there was a hole in the top of Brown's skull resembling a gunshot wound. At the time of his death Brown was being investigated, and spoke publicly of his willingness to cut a deal with prosecutors.

5 and 6. C. Victor Raiser II - & - Montgomery Raiser-Major players in the Clinton fund raising organization died in a private plane crash in July 1992.

7. Paul Tulley - Democratic National Committee Political Director found dead in a hotel room in Little Rock, September 1992. Described by Clinton as a " Dear friend and trusted advisor".

8. Ed Willey - Clinton fund raiser, found dead November 1993 deep in the woods in Virginia of a gunshot wound to the head. Ruled a suicide. Ed Willey died on the same day his wife Kathleen Willey claimed Bill Clinton groped her in the oval office in the White House. Ed Willey was involved in several Clinton fund raising events.

9. Jerry Parks - Head of Clinton's gubernatorial security team in Little Rock. Gunned down in his car at a deserted intersection outside Little Rock. Park's son said his father was building a dossier on Clinton. He allegedly threatened to reveal this information. After he died the files were mysteriously removed from his house.

10. James Bunch - Died from a gunshot suicide. It was reported that he had a "Black Book" of people containing names of influential people who visited prostitutes in Texas and Arkansas.

11. James Wilson - Was found dead in May 1993 from an apparent hanging suicide. He was reported to have ties to Whitewater.

12. Kathy Ferguson - Ex-wife of Arkansas Trooper Danny Ferguson died in May 1994 was found dead in her living roon with a gunshot to her head. It was ruled a suicide even though there were several packed suitcases, as if she was going somewhere. Danny Ferguson was a codefendant along with Bill Clinton in the Paula Jones lawsuit. Kathy Ferguson was a possible corroborating witness for Paula Jones.

13. Bill Shelton - Arkansas State Trooper and fiancee of Kathy Ferguson. Critical of the suicide ruling of his fiancee, he was found dead in June, 1994 of a gunshot wound also ruled a suicide at the gravesite of his fiancee.

14. Gandy Baugh - Attorney for Clinton friend Dan Lassater died by jumping out a window of a tall building January, 1994. His client was a convicted drug distributor.

15. Florence Martin - Accountant subcontractor for the CIA related to the Barry Seal Mena Airport drug smuggling case. Died of three gunshot wounds.

16. Suzanne Coleman - Reportedly had an affair with Clinton when he was Arkansas Attorney General. Died of a gunshot wound to the back of the head, ruled a suicide. Was pregnant at the time of her death.

17. Paula Grober - Clinton's speech interpreter for the deaf from 1978 until her death December 9, 1992. She died in a one car accident.

18. Danny Casolaro - Investigative reporter. Investigating Mena Airport and Arkansas Development Finance Authority. He slit his wrists, apparent suicide in the middle of his investigation.

19. Paul Wilcher - Attorney investigating corruption at Mena Airport with Casolaro and the 1980 "October Surprise" was found dead on a toilet June 22, 1993 in his Washington DC apartment. Had delivered a report to Janet Reno 3 weeks before his death.

20. Jon Parnell Walker - Whitewater investigator for Resolution Trust Corp. Jumped to his death from his Arlington, Virginia apartment balcony August 15, 1993 was investigating Morgan Guarantee scandal.

21. Barbara Wise - Commerce Department staffer. Worked closely with Ron Brown and John Huang. Cause of death unknown. Died November 29, Her bruised nude body was found locked in her office at the Department of Commerce.

22. Charles Meissner - Assistant Secretary of Commerce who gave John Huang special security clearance, died shortly thereafter in a small plane crash.

23. Dr. Stanley Heard - Chairman of the National Chiropractic Health Care Advisory Committee died with his attorney Steve Dickson in a small plane crash. Dr. Heard, in addition to serving on Clinton's advisory council personally treated Clinton's mother, stepfather and brother.

24. Barry Seal - Drug running pilot out of Mena Arkansas, Death was no accident.

25. Johnny Lawhorn Jr. - Mechanic, found a check made out to Clinton in the trunk of a car left in his repair shop. Died when his car hit a utility pole.

26. Stanley Huggins - Suicide. Investigated Madison Guarantee. His report was never released.

27. Hershell Friday - Attorney and Clinton fund raiser died March 1, 1994 when his plane exploded.

28. and 29. Kevin Ives & Don Henry - Known as "The boys on the track" case. Reports say the boys may have stumbled upon the Mena Arkansas airport drug operation. Controversial case where initial report of death was due to falling asleep on railroad track. Later reports claim the 2 boys had been slain before being placed on the tracks.

30. Many linked to the case died before their testimony could come before a Grand Jury.


THE FOLLOWING SIX PERSONS
HAD INFORMATION ON THE IVES / HENRY CASE:

31. Keith Coney - Died when his motorcycle slammed into the back of a truck July, 1988.

32. Keith McMaskle - Died stabbed 113 times, Nov, 1988

33. Gregory Collins - Died from a gunshot wound January 1989.

34. Jeff Rhodes - He was shot, mutilated and found burned in a trash dump in April 1989.

35. James Milan - Found decapitated. Coroner ruled death due to natural causes.

36. Jordan Kettleson - Was found shot to death in the front seat of his pickup truck in June 1990.

37. Richard Winters - Was a suspect in the Ives / Henry deaths. Was killed in a setup robbery July 1989.


THE FOLLOWING CLINTON BODYGUARDS ARE DEAD

38. Major William S. Barkley Jr.

39. Captain Scott J. Reynolds

40. Sgt. Brian Hanley

41. Sgt. Tim Sabel

42. Major General William Robertson

43. Col. William Densberger

44. Col. Robert Kelly

45. Spec. Gary Rhodes

46. Steve Willis

47. Robert Williams

48. Conway LeBleu

49. Todd McKeehan
Maybe this is why Obama should choose someone else over Hillary?

:thumbs:

Maybe this is why Obama should choose someone else over Hillary?

:thumbs:

What's your point?

Maybe he would like to live a long and fruitful life.

(I'm just being facetious).

Maybe he would like to live a long and fruitful life.

(I'm just being facetious).

Where's # 50.? I hate it when someone screws up the punch line.,

http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/bok/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/080605boklores.jpg

Exactly, lol.

That hatred you're talking about --for Hillary and for anything associated in the slightest way with the name *Clinton*-- is one of the most amazing things ever produced by the Corporate Media in this country. It has been a 16 year long process to give birth to it, to bring it to fruition, to nourish it, to ceaselessly feed it every minute of every day, to see it take root and grow into the immense proportions which it now has.

And we now see it bearing the most incredible fruit imaginable for the Neo-Cons who brought it into existence; the rejection of Hillary Clinton as a candidate and the embrace, instead, of a black person who was raised in Indonesia, whose father was a radical Muslim, whose preacher shouts 'God Damn America!' and whose middle name is Hussein.

Can you for one minute imagine the tremendous satisfaction, the insane glee and the sense of victory that the top level RepubliFascist party leaders must feel at this moment in time, seeing the Democrats --thanks to the seeds of Clinton hatred that were planted long, long ago-- commit political suicide in the way they've just done?!?!?!?

I thought I didn't like the Clinton's because Bill cheated on his wife, in the White House, and then lied under oath. Hillary stayed with Bill all this time for merely political reasons. Hillary has told bold faced lie after bold faced lie. Bill follows Hillary around like a little lost puppy dog that she has to kick every now and then to keep in line. Hillary wants everything for herself, and Bill wants everything back.

I guess that's just me, but then again I don't have opinions other than what I see on Fox News.

I thought I didn't like the Clinton's because Bill cheated on his wife, ....

Wow.

What an infantile reason to find disfavor with a president.

I cannot imagine anything LESS interesting --or of less importance--- to me than who a certain politician is having sex with.

Hillary stayed with Bill all this time for merely political reasons.

Gee. What a comforting little prophecy that must be for you.

ROTFL.

As if you have the slightest idea what her motivation or reasoning is with regards to her personal love life.

Hillary has told bold faced lie after bold faced lie.

You're no doubt correct about that.

But then, some politicians, like Hillary, tell lies about things that are virtually meaningless to me in my day to day existence. Others, like B*sh, Cheney, Rove, Rice and Rumsfeld, concoct an entire campaign of lies about things of immense importance to me. Like whether or not my country needs to wage a two trillion dollar war in a foreign land that I (along with my great, great grandchildren) will be forced to help pay for.

.......I don't have opinions other than what I see on Fox News.

You act as if that is spoken tongue in cheek........but I'd say that the truth of it is that such a statement is highly accurate.

Not only for you but for around 56 million+ other brainwashed rightwingers as well.

Wow.

What an infantile reason to find disfavor with a president.

I cannot imagine anything LESS interesting --or of less importance--- to me than who a certain politician is having sex with.


I don't know about you, but someone cheating on their spouse is a pretty good indicator of what kind of person they are, don't you think? I thought, for the most part, Clinton was a pretty good President. I'm talking about the man, and why I dislike him however. Not about his policies.


Gee. What a comforting little prophecy that must be for you.

ROTFL.

As if you have the slightest idea what her motivation or reasoning is with regards to her personal love life.


It's a substantiated observation. If they had divorced Hillary's aspirations would have become nill.


You're no doubt correct about that.

But then, some politicians, like Hillary, tell lies about things that are virtually meaningless to me in my day to day existence. Others, like B*sh, Cheney, Rove, Rice and Rumsfeld, concoct an entire campaign of lies about things of immense importance to me. Like whether or not my country needs to wage a two trillion dollar war in a foreign land that I (along with my great, great grandchildren) will be forced to help pay for.


Guess what? I don't like Bush either, and I work for the guy. I dislike politicians in general simply because most of them are corrupt beyond belief and they don't care about the actual people.


You act as if that is spoken tongue in cheek........but I'd say that the truth of it is that such a statement is highly accurate.

Not only for you but for around 56 million+ other brainwashed rightwingers as well.

It was spoken tongue in cheek, and I meant it that way. I'm not right-wing. I don't know how many times I've actually said that to you. Hey guess what though? I do watch Fox News from time to time. In between my watching of the BBC, CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, and any other news source I can get a hold of. But I guess because I don't tune into the Fidel News Network I'm a brainwashed rightwinger though.

That hatred you're talking about --for Hillary and for anything associated in the slightest way with the name *Clinton*-- is one of the most amazing things ever produced by the Corporate Media in this country. It has been a 16 year long process to give birth to it, to bring it to fruition, to nourish it, to ceaselessly feed it every minute of every day, to see it take root and grow into the immense proportions which it now has.

Gee, because there is no "hatred" of Bush :rolleyes: *cough 30% approval rating! cough*

And we now see it bearing the most incredible fruit imaginable for the Neo-Cons who brought it into existence; the rejection of Hillary Clinton as a candidate and the embrace, instead, of a black person who was raised in Indonesia, whose father was a radical Muslim, whose preacher shouts 'God Damn America!' and whose middle name is Hussein.

I have to draw the line. This is just going too far. I'm sorry, but FT's black and white world is just so unreasonable it makes me want to barf.

So there was a "rejection" of Hilary Clinton? How do you explain all of the votes she mustered, and the campaign that she ran? Was she doing that because she was "rejected" be everyone? If so, then the press HID that, and made her look like a probable candidate.

People "embrace" Barak Obama? People of your ilk, and probably you yourself, have said that "a black person who was raised in Indonesia, whose father was a radical Muslim, whose preacher shouts 'God Damn America!' and whose middle name is Hussein."... SHOULD NOT matter at all... and now you are using it to Damn him all the same. So much for you staying consistent. Just like a typical extreme liberal, you jump ship, blame the opposition, and pout. Good job.

Can you for one minute imagine the tremendous satisfaction, the insane glee and the sense of victory that the top level RepubliFascist party leaders must feel at this moment in time, seeing the Democrats --thanks to the seeds of Clinton hatred that were planted long, long ago-- commit political suicide in the way they've just done?!?!?!?

So it's the REPUBLICANS fault for the Democrats committing political SUICIDE? I'd love to hear an explanation of that. Did the awful, mean ol' Repubwicans say some naughty words? Are the Democrats just some innocent little fluffy teddy bear who are being "shredded" by a mean ol' lawnmower? Politics is politics... which is why I could never be a politician. I would be honest, fair, and not secretive. I'd be shut up immediately by the powers that be. But, both sides are players in the game. Don't hate the player, hate the game. If you can't stand politics, then why do you follow it so closely? I don't like country music... it's whiney, the lyrics are 2nd grade tier, and it all sounds alike to me... so I don't listen to it. I don't blame Garth Brooks or Billy Ray Cirus for making it suck, I just choose not to listen to country music.

If that list is accurate, the one of all the deaths, then something is certainly fishy. I mean, so many people around the Clinton campaign shot, or just happen to "jump out of a window"... and all claimed to be suicides.. it seems Clinton sure had some strong toilet paper to cover up his shit. Clinton is on record saying that his historical imprint is very important to him... maybe he MADE SURE it would be positive.. and got all pissed when was impeached, which is why he has a pinecone up his ass when goes on Fox news sunday.

If you can't stand politics, then why do you follow it so closely? I don't like country music... it's whiney, the lyrics are 2nd grade tier, and it all sounds alike to me... so I don't listen to it. I don't blame Garth Brooks or Billy Ray Cirus for making it suck, I just choose not to listen to country music.If I choose to ignore or turn off country music my life won't be affected. But politics affects my life whether I pay attention to it or not. Even if it is at times distasteful, it is far better to participate in what happens to our country than it is to ignore it and hope for the best. In other words, your analogy sucks. Again.

And we now see it bearing the most incredible fruit imaginable for the Neo-Cons who brought it into existence; the rejection of Hillary Clinton as a candidate and the embrace, instead, of a black person who was raised in Indonesia, whose father was a radical Muslim, whose preacher shouts 'God Damn America!' and whose middle name is Hussein.
And the majority of voters--specifically, undecided voters and independents--don't care about any of that. Electoral college polls have Obama leading McCain 244-202, with 92 essentially tied (and the split in those being 43 lean Obama, 24 perfectly tied, 25 lean McCain). Obama has surprising support in areas where the Democrats traditionally lose, such as the western states (like Colorado) and midwestern states (like Indiana).

If that list is accurate, the one of all the deaths, then something is certainly fishy. I mean, so many people around the Clinton campaign shot, or just happen to "jump out of a window"... and all claimed to be suicides.. it seems Clinton sure had some strong toilet paper to cover up his shit. Clinton is on record saying that his historical imprint is very important to him... maybe he MADE SURE it would be positive.. and got all pissed when was impeached, which is why he has a pinecone up his ass when goes on Fox news sunday.Amazing how easy it is for people to buy into this crap.

Snopes refutes point by point (http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/bodycount.asp).

If that list is accurate, the one of all the deaths, then something is certainly fishy. I mean, so many people around the Clinton campaign shot, or just happen to "jump out of a window"... and all claimed to be suicides.. it seems Clinton sure had some strong toilet paper to cover up his shit. Clinton is on record saying that his historical imprint is very important to him... maybe he MADE SURE it would be positive.. and got all pissed when was impeached, which is why he has a pinecone up his ass when goes on Fox news sunday.
you've never heard of the Clinton Body Count (http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/bodycount.asp) before? sure, ppl that get in their way have a nasty habit of ending up dead, but they can't be responsible for all those deaths...but with that many, i'd be shocked if they weren't involved with at least one.

I didn't buy any crap.. I said "IF" it were accurate. Any conclusions from a sentence that start with "if"? Not in my world...

And is Snopes all knowing? People will do anything to make their party look innocent... including purposefully overlooking or misinterpreting facts in order to make the outcome look better for them, and just to get a refutation out there. It's amazing how easy it is for people to buy into this crap.

And you are correct, government does happen with or without us. But hey, if you are like FT, you know the whole system is fixed anyways.. right? I mean, Bush won the 2000 election because he cheated! EVERYONE knows that, even though there is no evidence, it's common knowledge! And 2004? All the media was negative to John Kerry, and there weren't ANY attacks on Bush's war record, or his "draft dodging", or his substance abuse, or his Dan Rather convictions, or his public speaking.. AT ALL!

So, since you want a person such as FT, who suspects that anything that doesn't go down radical Blvd to be fixed and a conspiracy, to care about the system... it seems rather impossible to me. He's just looking for ammo to push his own agenda.

I didn't buy any crap.. I said "IF" it were accurate. Any conclusions from a sentence that start with "if"? Not in my world...
Your attempt at covering your ass is pathetic. The sentences following the "if" one show that you grant that ridiculous list at least some credibility.
And is Snopes all knowing? People will do anything to make their party look innocent... including purposefully overlooking or misinterpreting facts in order to make the outcome look better for them, and just to get a refutation out there. It's amazing how easy it is for people to buy into this crap.
Maybe you should do some fucking research of your own before accusing a man of forty-eight murders. Do you have any idea how ridiculous the very idea, much less that list, is?
He's just looking for ammo to push his own agenda.
Which is exactly what that list of purported murders is.

Your attempt at covering your ass is pathetic. The sentences following the "if" one show that you grant that ridiculous list at least some credibility.

I didn't know you can't say the word "if" anymore... now it's "covering your ass". I mean, far be it from me to speculate on things. At least I don't deal in absolutes... I acknowledge that it's neither truth or fiction... If you want to call me a "pussy" for doing that, I'll call you a stubborn idiot for thinking you know everything.

Why should we give ANYTHING credibility borg? Why does any theory against George Bush have TONS of credibility on these forums, but yet when there are some against Clinton's term of office.. it's just "garbage" and not to be taken seriously? I could go to some republican forums and I'm sure they have "refuted" every charge against Bush... just as this guy has supposedly "refuted" every charge against the Clintons.

Maybe you should do some fucking research of your own before accusing a man of forty-eight murders. Do you have any idea how ridiculous the very idea, much less that list, is?

Maybe, you should watch your mouth, and learn to read. I didn't accuse Bill Clinton of 48 murders. Would you like to point that out for me, where you found that quote that said "I, Decka, think that Bill Clinton went around the country in his spare time and shot or killed 48 people who were connected to him".... Please, by all means, quote it for me because I've gone back a few times and boy.. I've done some things that I couldn't remember before, but this one just DOESN'T seem to EXIST...


couldn't find it? I thought not. It's called a government regime. Clinton probably didn't even know about it, but hired people to take out any threats against his credibility so that NOBODY would find out. That seems... possible? Probably any president does that, or any people connected to a regime do that. It may not have even been to the knowledge of the president. BUT... I'm speculating... How dare I do that. We live in a black and white world! At least Borg does.

Why should we give ANYTHING credibility borg? Why does any theory against George Bush have TONS of credibility on these forums
So I'm sure you can dig up one of these far-fetched theories about Bush that are given credence by most on Allforums?
Maybe, you should watch your mouth, and learn to read. I didn't accuse Bill Clinton of 48 murders. Would you like to point that out for me, where you found that quote that said "I, Decka, think that Bill Clinton went around the country in his spare time and shot or killed 48 people who were connected to him".... Please, by all means, quote it for me because I've gone back a few times and boy.. I've done some things that I couldn't remember before, but this one just DOESN'T seem to EXIST...
Here you go again. Stop patronizing me (or possibly deluding yourself) and recognize the innuendo you have been spewing. No, you have not flat-out said that Clinton had anyone killed, but you have certainly implied that it's credible in your eyes.
couldn't find it? I thought not. It's called a government regime. Clinton probably didn't even know about it, but hired people to take out any threats against his credibility so that NOBODY would find out. That seems... possible?
It seems possible that the same federal government that can never get anything done without bungling it massively could orchestrate a number of murders, keep them totally quiet, and leave only enough evidence that some nutjobs can compile a list of dead people that might (if you squint really hard, ignore some facts, and take some incredibly unlikely premises) have been connected to this lengthy string of murders? In a media climate such as that of the past two decades, where Slick Willy couldn't even get away with a blowjob without being impeached? It is mind-bendingly unlikely.
Probably any president does that, or any people connected to a regime do that. It may not have even been to the knowledge of the president. BUT... I'm speculating... How dare I do that. We live in a black and white world! At least Borg does.
If you want to live without filters and believe every kooky conspiracy theory that comes through the series of tubes, that's your business. But I will continue to call it so incredibly unlikely as to be laughable. It's really sad that these are the ideas you give credence. Open-mindedness is a good thing, but not if you take it to the extent where you are willing to believe everything you read. Sometimes a kook is just a kook, not a savant in disguise.

I didn't accuse Bill Clinton of 48 murders. Would you like to point that out for me, where you found that quote that said "I, Decka, think that Bill Clinton went around the country in his spare time and shot or killed 48 people who were connected to him"....____________Decka

Stop patronizing me (or possibly deluding yourself) ............

Yeah.

Good luck on the ***Stop deluding yourself*** request.

So I'm sure you can dig up one of these far-fetched theories about Bush that are given credence by most on Allforums?

???

Where do I start...

Bush only in Iraq for oil
Bush was a cokehead (like Sigmund Freud)
Bush purposely killing innocent Iraqi's
Bush provided with a supposed corporate controlled media

I've heard em all... maybe not from you.. but hell, read ONE of Comrad Freethinker's posts. You could be talking about brownies and he'll tie in how evil Bush is and how the media is his strong arm.. (even though they heavily report Iraqi chaos and report his low approval rating).. how facist America is, and will follow it up with some quote from some radical.


Here you go again. Stop patronizing me (or possibly deluding yourself) and recognize the innuendo you have been spewing. No, you have not flat-out said that Clinton had anyone killed, but you have certainly implied that it's credible in your eyes.

Saying "if" means I say it's credible? So when I say "IF Obama wins the presidency".. does that mean I think Barak Obama will be president, and that I endorse him? Not in my book, but we must be reading different novels.

It seems possible that the same federal government that can never get anything done without bungling it massively could orchestrate a number of murders, keep them totally quiet, and leave only enough evidence that some nutjobs can compile a list of dead people that might (if you squint really hard, ignore some facts, and take some incredibly unlikely premises) have been connected to this lengthy string of murders? In a media climate such as that of the past two decades, where Slick Willy couldn't even get away with a blowjob without being impeached? It is mind-bendingly unlikely.

I think it is entirely possible. Not many people outside of "government junkies" even know who these people are. I guess we can throw any Bush 9-11 theories out the window.. because how could he do something THAT drastic when Bill Clinton is getting caught getting a blowjob! Most people don't even care about the government officials anymore. There is no sex, no drama (none shown, anyway), and no pop culture. As long as people have reality TV and MTV, they will keep up with if Ricky gets cut from American Idol, but doesn't care if suspicious things are happening in our government.

If you want to live without filters and believe every kooky conspiracy theory that comes through the series of tubes, that's your business. But I will continue to call it so incredibly unlikely as to be laughable. It's really sad that these are the ideas you give credence. Open-mindedness is a good thing, but not if you take it to the extent where you are willing to believe everything you read. Sometimes a kook is just a kook, not a savant in disguise.

I think the list was suspicious... almost way too delibrate and clear to be true. But you didn't bother to find that out. You just labeled me as a guy who fully supported it. I think there are conspiracies that warrant some merit, and some that do not. I can tell you that I think that there is no chance that the list is 100% accurate, not even 50% accurate. But if ONE of the 48 claims is true, that's the government shutting someone up.... and a big deal.

I guess we can throw any Bush 9-11 theories out the window
Well, yes. Shit like Loose Change is complete bullshit as well.
Most people don't even care about the government officials anymore. There is no sex, no drama (none shown, anyway), and no pop culture.
You don't think a government-directed murder is enough to make the news?! Whatever you're smoking, get me some.
I think the list was suspicious... almost way too delibrate and clear to be true. But you didn't bother to find that out. You just labeled me as a guy who fully supported it.
Show me where I said, "I, BorgHunter, believe that Decka believes every word of this list." :)
I think there are conspiracies that warrant some merit, and some that do not. I can tell you that I think that there is no chance that the list is 100% accurate, not even 50% accurate. But if ONE of the 48 claims is true, that's the government shutting someone up.... and a big deal.
So where's your evidence that one of the forty-eight claims is true?

Well, yes. Shit like Loose Change is complete bullshit as well.

I agree... a well put together film, but ultimately misleading and full of mistruths. There may be some things on there that have some truth to them though.

You don't think a government-directed murder is enough to make the news?! Whatever you're smoking, get me some.

It's surely not as important as what Johnny did on American Idol last night..

Show me where I said, "I, BorgHunter, believe that Decka believes every word of this list." :)

I think accusing me of accusing Clinton to be responsible for each and every death as it was labeled on the list, even though i used the word "if".. is proper evidence to show your message.

So where's your evidence that one of the forty-eight claims is true?

I have none.. which is why i said "if" in the first place.

"IF Big Brown wins the Belmont... "

It's surely not as important as what Johnny did on American Idol last night.. . "

I dont know. i pretty much stayed out of this thread. Seems like alot of pissing and moaning about the usage of the word "IF"

However I do need to say if there was proof of a person murdered and the government was behind the "hit" or any highly tier elected official for that matter was guilty.. that would be HUGE NEWS. Absolute blockbuster must see TV.

I have none.. which is why i said "if" in the first place.

"IF Big Brown wins the Belmont... "
And if my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a bus.

And if my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a bus.

Decka only rides mopeds.

A Vespa, actually, and it's probably painted in WWE livery, right, Decka? ;)

License plate: "Grrr1", perhaps??? :)

Decka only rides mopeds.
and big girls

What I'm getting at... is the fact that nobody cares about government's every day happenings... but they care if Johnny gets voted off of American Idol. Would a piece about Clinton's regime allegedly murdering a bunch of people cause concern? Yes, but there is nothing the people could do about it. So they would grow to live with that, and keep watching American Idol.. because THAT is REAL entertainment... gotta stay in the fantasy world and keep out of reality.

Oh my god! Johnny got voted off? Shit, he was my favorite one.

What I'm getting at... is the fact that nobody cares about government's every day happenings
Yeah, 'cause it's not like anyone pays any attention whenever there's a sex scandal or anything. Certainly no sitting President has ever been impeached for something like that, 'cause nobody cares and junk. So a murder would fly right under the radar, and forty-eight of 'em would never raise an eyebrow. Because people just wouldn't care about that.

Honestly, Decka, are you even listening to yourself? This is a remarkably asinine level of cynicism you happen to have. A legitimate murder claim against a politician, even a small-town mayor, would make national headlines. Against a former President, it'd make the media coverage of the OJ Simpson trial look like the media coverage of Ron Paul. I can't think of anything the sensationalist media would love more than a murder claim, much less 48 of them, against a figure with as high a profile as Clinton.

Yeah, 'cause it's not like anyone pays any attention whenever there's a sex scandal or anything. Certainly no sitting President has ever been impeached for something like that, 'cause nobody cares and junk. So a murder would fly right under the radar, and forty-eight of 'em would never raise an eyebrow. Because people just wouldn't care about that.

Honestly, Decka, are you even listening to yourself? This is a remarkably asinine level of cynicism you happen to have. A legitimate murder claim against a politician, even a small-town mayor, would make national headlines. Against a former President, it'd make the media coverage of the OJ Simpson trial look like the media coverage of Ron Paul. I can't think of anything the sensationalist media would love more than a murder claim, much less 48 of them, against a figure with as high a profile as Clinton.

I understand your point Borg... but where are the lectures to Comrad(e) Freethinker about "republican facists controlling our media"? What if Clinton's regime got away with a LOT more than just a blowjob? I'm just asking the question. I'm not pinning 48 murders on them... I'm saying "is it possible"? And from what I can make of it.. yes it is. Just as it is possible that George Bush lied to get us into Iraq.