McCain officially started his campaign today.

(OK Frannie, NOW you can start following along)

McCain welcomes Obama with fresh criticism
By LIBBY QUAID, Associated Press Writer
Wed Jun 4, 1:04 AM ET

NEW ORLEANS - Republican John McCain welcomed Democrat Barack Obama to the fall campaign for the White House on Tuesday with a blistering attack on his judgment and a charge that he "voted to deny funds to the soldiers who have done a brilliant and brave job" in Iraq.

"Americans ought to be concerned about the judgment of a presidential candidate who says he's ready to talk, in person and without conditions, with tyrants from Havana to Pyongyang, but hasn't traveled to Iraq to meet with General (David) Petraeus, and see for himself the progress he threatens to reverse," McCain said as his rival wrapped up the Democratic nomination.

McCain cast Obama, a first-term Illinois senator, as lacking the experience and discretion to be a wartime commander in chief, and he argued the Democrat's calls for a troop withdrawal from Iraq would imperil the United States.

The Arizona senator mocked Obama's promise of change for a country weary of the status quo, uttering the word "change" no fewer than 33 times.

"He is an impressive man who makes a great first impression," McCain said. "But he hasn't been willing to make the tough calls, to challenge his party, to risk criticism from his supporters, to bring real change to Washington. I have."

In a speech intended to mark the start of the general election, the Republican defended himself against Obama's frequent claim that McCain is "running for President Bush's third term" because McCain supports the Iraq war and wants to extend the president's tax cuts.

Voters don't buy it, McCain said.

"The American people didn't get to know me yesterday, as they are just getting to know Senator Obama," McCain said. "They know I have a long record of bipartisan problem-solving. They've seen me put our country before any president, before any party, before any special interest, before my own interest."

more... (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080604/ap_on_el_pr/mccain;_ylt=Aj_1Ewt91U4GQhNZl4.i7exh24cA)

The "long record of bipartisan problem-solving" is definitely the main thing about McCain that is attractive to me.

Senator John Sidney McCain III (AZ)

Current Office: U.S. Senate
Current District: Senior Seat
Office Seeking: President
First Elected: 11/04/1986
Last Elected: 11/02/2004
Next Election: 2010
Party: Republican

Additional Information:

Astrological Sign
Virgo

Awards
Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of Merit, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross, 1996 Taxpayer's Hero Award of The Council for Citizens Against Government Waste.

Current Car
Cadillac CTS (C-Series Touring Sedan), a midsize luxury sedan.

Father's Name
John McCain Jr.

Father's Occupation
4 Star Admiral, US Navy.

Favorite Actor/Actress
Marlon Brando, Marilyn Monroe.

Favorite Book
For Whom the Bell Tolls.

Favorite Food
Chocolate ice cream, pizza with pepperoni and onions, baby-back ribs.

Favorite Movie
Viva Zapata, Letters From Iwo Jima, Some Like It Hot.

Favorite Musician
Chuck Berry, Roy Orbison.

Favorite TV Shows
24, Seinfeld.

Favorite Type of Music
Rock and Roll.

First Job
Naval Aviator, US Navy.

Hobbies or Special Talents
Sports, Hiking, Fishing, Boxing, Basketball, Football, Baseball, History, Barbecue grill chef.

Mother's Name
Roberta.

Number of Grandchildren
4.

Personal Heroes
Theodore Roosevelt, Ronald Reagan, Barry Goldwater.

Pets (include names)
English springer spaniel: Sam; mutt: Coco; 2 turtles: Cuff, Link, cat: Oreo; a ferret, three parakeets and 13 saltwater fish.

Publications
"Faith of My Fathers" (1999); "Worth the Fighting For: A Memoir" (2002); "Why Courage Matters" (2004); and "Character Is Destiny" (2005), Unfinished Business: Afghanistan, the Middle East and Beyond -- Defusing the Dangers That Threaten America's Security by Harlan Ullman and John S. McCain; The Reminiscences of Admiral John S. McCain, Jr., by John McCain.

Senator John Sidney McCain III (AZ)

Current Office: U.S. Senate
Current District: Senior Seat
Office Seeking: President
First Elected: 11/04/1986
Last Elected: 11/02/2004
Next Election: 2010
Party: Republican

Background Information Additional Information

Gender: Male
Family: Wife: Cindy Lou Hensley
7 Children: Doug, Sidney, Andy, Meghan, Jack, Jimmy, Bridget.
Birth Date: 08/29/1936
Birthplace: Panama Canal Zone, Panama
Home City: Phoenix, AZ
Religion: Episcopalian

Education:
National War College, 1973-1974
BS, United States Naval Academy, 1958.

Professional Experience:
Senate Navy Liaison, 1977-1981
Captain, United States Navy, Vietnam, 1958-1981
Beer Distributor.

Political Experience:
Senator, United States Senate, Arizona, 1987-present
Primary Candidate, United States President, 2000
National Security Adviser, Dole/Kemp Presidential Campaign, 1996
Representative, United States House of Representatives, 1982-1986.

Organizations:
Member, American Dream Political Action Committee, 1997-present
Member, Council on Foreign Relations, 1997-present
Honorary Board Member, Hispanic Youth Foundation, 1997-present
Honorary Board Member, The Leonard Cheshire Foundation, 1997-present
Honorary Member, Advisory Council, National Hispanic Foundation for the Arts, 1997-present
Honorary Vice Chair, New Majority Council, 1997-present
Board of Trustees, Gallaudet University, 1995-present
Founding Member, Pacific Council on International Policy, University of South California, 1995-present
Chair, Board of Directors, International Republican Institute, 1992-present
Life Member, Navy League, 1987-present
Member, Air Force Sergeants Association
Member, The Alfalfa Club
Honorary Advisor Board, Arizona Black Chamber of Commerce
Honorary Co-Chair, Advisory Board of Directors, Arizona Cancer Research Foundation
Honorary Member, Arizona Hispanic Chamber of Commerce
Complimentary Member, Association of the United States Army
Honorary Member, Barry Goldwater Foundation
Honorary Member, Fifty-Five Years and Up Incorporated
Honorary Member/Board of Regents, Francis Scott Key Foundation
Honorary Member, The John Goodwin Tower Center
Honorary Board Member, Kids Voting Arizona
Member, The Military Order of World Wars
Honorary Member, Mo Udall Foundation
Board of Directors, Nixon Center for Peace and Freedom
Member, Purple Heart Association
Member, The Retired Officers Association
Member, Sons of the Revolution in the State of Virginia
Member, United States Naval Academy Alumni Association
Member of Board of Visitors, United States Naval Academy
Honorary Member/Board of Directors/Council of Notables, United States-Spain Council
Member, Veterans of Foreign Wars
Member, Vietnam Veterans Association.

Caucuses/Non-Legislative Committees:
Environmental and Energy Study Conference
National Republican Senatorial Committee
Co-Chair, Porkbusters Coalition
Renewal Alliance
Senate Centrist Coalition
Senate Committee for American Indian College Fund
Senate Co-Chair, National Security Caucus
Senate Steering Committee
Senate Wilderness and Public Lands Caucus
Vietnam Veterans in Congress.

Committees:
Armed Services, Ranking Member
Commerce, Science & Transportation, Ranking Member
Indian Affairs, Member

Personal Heroes
Theodore Roosevelt, Ronald Reagan, Barry Goldwater.
Nice - they're mine, too. :)

Nice - they're mine, too. :)

Can't help myself... did you see what his cat's name is?

:lolhit:

He's a Virgo and a member of the Alfalfa Club?

Yes, I did.

What I thought was so freakin' cool was this:

Education:
National War College, 1973-1974

We actually have a war college!? LOL - that's hilarious! :)

Yes, I did.

What I thought was so freakin' cool was this:

Education:
National War College, 1973-1974

We actually have a war college!? LOL - that's hilarious! :)

National War College
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

National War College
(U.S. National Historic Landmark)

Roosevelt Hall at Fort Lesley J. McNair, which houses the National War College.
Location: Washington, District of Columbia
Built/Founded: 1907
Architect: McKim, Mead, and White
Architectural style(s): Colonial Revival
Added to NRHP: November 28, 1972
NRHP Reference#: 72001535[1]
Governing body: United States Army

Nation War College
The National War College (NWC) of the United States is a school in the National Defense University.

It is located in Theodore Roosevelt Hall in Fort Lesley J. McNair, Washington, D.C., the third-oldest Army post still active today. It was officially established on July 1, 1946 as an upgraded replacement for the Army-Navy Staff College, which operated from June 1943 to July 1946.

According to Lieutenant General Leonard T. Gerow, President of the Board which recommended its formation, "The College is concerned with grand strategy and the utilization of the national resources necessary to implement that strategy... Its graduates will exercise a great influence on the formulation of national and foreign policy in both peace and war...."

Mid-level and senior military officers who are likely to be promoted to the most senior ranks are selected to study at the War College in preparation for higher staff and command positions. One of the more notable graduates of the National War College was former U.S. Secretary of State and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Colin Powell.

Ooh. Just what we need - a president who's been indoctrinated to believe that war is The Answer. He's sure as hell not planning to talk with any foreign leaders to work out any disagreements that arise, we know this.

Bomb, bomb, bomb
Bomb, bomb Iran!

:rolleyes:

He's sure as hell not planning to talk with any foreign leaders to work out any disagreements that arise, we know this
That's simply not true, Frannie - he'll talk to any legitimate leader who isn't a mouthpiece for an Islamic radical that champions terrorism. :)

Our State Department will "talk" to the ones who don't qualify.

That said, I really don't know what you hope to accomplish by having our president engage in conversation with an Islamic nutter, who simply refuses to compromise with anyone, and "we know this".

That said, I really don't know what you hope to accomplish by having our president engage in conversation with an Islamic nutter, who simply refuses to compromise with anyone, and "we know this".

So, you advocate going to war before trying everything and anything to avoid going to war?

Brilliant. :@@:

So, you advocate going to war before trying everything and anything to avoid going to war?

Brilliant. :@@:
No, the brilliant part is that Ahmadinejad and the ayatollah will determine whether or not we go to war with Iran. I think, at this point in time, we should be more interested in *action, not palaver - especially when it comes to radical Islam.

*By "action", I didn't mean to imply that we should take action against them, but rather, that they should take action (i.e. listen to the global community and the IAEA for starters).

Outside of that, we have nothing to "talk" about.

Can't help myself... did you see what his cat's name is?

:lolhit:
that's a good name for a tuxedo cat.

Yes, I did.

What I thought was so freakin' cool was this:

Education:
National War College, 1973-1974

We actually have a war college!? LOL - that's hilarious! :)
you didn't know?

Ooh. Just what we need - a president who's been indoctrinated to believe that war is The Answer. He's sure as hell not planning to talk with any foreign leaders to work out any disagreements that arise, we know this.

Bomb, bomb, bomb
Bomb, bomb Iran!

:rolleyes:
nooooooo, more like we need one that knows how to run a war, not just a surrender:rolleyes:

that's a good name for a tuxedo cat.

Don't tell Al Sharpton.

Ooh. Just what we need - a president who's been indoctrinated to believe that war is The Answer.

Many millions of Americans absolutely love the idea of a president who'll shoot first and ask questions later. Or maybe never ask questions at all.

(And hey, who cares if we piss away 2 trillion taxdollars in the process, right? The taxpayers will foot the bill. I mean, we have to present this image of supreme "manliness". Always. :rolleyes:)

M(And hey, who cares if we piss away 2 trillion taxdollars in the process, right? The taxpayers will foot the bill. I mean, we have to present this image of supreme "manliness". Always. :rolleyes:)

Yes, and then mention healthcare and immediately they ask "how will we pay for that?" - just like they've been brainwashed by the likes of Rush, Hannity, etc.

Yes, I did.

What I thought was so freakin' cool was this:

Education:
National War College, 1973-1974

We actually have a war college!? LOL - that's hilarious! :)

I hope he did better there than he did when he went to Annapolis.

When he attended the Naval Academy he graduated near the bottom of his class, 894th out of a class of 899. Not exactly a stellar performance.

His performance as a pilot wasn't anything to write home about either. During his tours aboard the carriers Enterprise, and Intrepid while flying A-1 Skyraider aircraft, he survived two crashes and a collision with some power lines. Now I don't know the details of the accidents, but it does make one wonder if his father wasn't an admiral whether his flying career might have turned out a bit differently.

I hope he did better there than he did when he went to Annapolis.

When he attended the Naval Academy he graduated near the bottom of his class, 894th out of a class of 899. Not exactly a stellar performance.

His performance as a pilot wasn't anything to write home about either. During his tours aboard the carriers Enterprise, and Intrepid while flying A-1 Skyraider aircraft, he survived two crashes and a collision with some power lines. Now I don't know the details of the accidents, but it does make one wonder if his father wasn't an admiral whether his flying career might have turned out a bit differently.
Good points.

I hope he did better there than he did when he went to Annapolis.

When he attended the Naval Academy he graduated near the bottom of his class, 894th out of a class of 899. Not exactly a stellar performance.

Following in the footsteps of his father and grandfather, McCain entered the United States Naval Academy at Annapolis. There, he was a friend and leader for many of his classmates, and stood up for people who were being bullied. He also became a lightweight boxer.[4][10] McCain had conflicts with higher-ups, and he was disinclined to obey every rule, which contributed to a low class rank (894/899) that he did not aim to improve.[11][12][13][14] McCain did well in academic subjects that interested him, such as literature and history, but only studied enough to pass math.[4] McCain graduated in 1958.[12]

His performance as a pilot wasn't anything to write home about either. During his tours aboard the carriers Enterprise, and Intrepid while flying A-1 Skyraider aircraft, he survived two crashes and a collision with some power lines. Now I don't know the details of the accidents, but it does make one wonder if his father wasn't an admiral whether his flying career might have turned out a bit differently.

or it might of been because he was the type of man that would do things like this-

McCain requested a combat assignment,[23] and in December 1966 was assigned to the aircraft carrier USS Forrestal flying A-4 Skyhawks.[24][25] McCain's combat duty began when he was 30 years old. In summer 1967, Forrestal was assigned to a bombing campaign during the Vietnam War.[11][26] McCain and his fellow pilots were frustrated by micromanagement from Washington,[27] and he would later write that "In all candor, we thought our civilian commanders were complete idiots who didn’t have the least notion of what it took to win the war."[26]

By then a lieutenant commander, McCain was almost killed on July 29, 1967 when he was at the epicenter of the Forrestal fire. McCain escaped from his burning jet and was trying to help another pilot escape when a bomb exploded;[28] McCain was struck in the legs and chest by fragments.[29] The ensuing fire killed 134 sailors and took 24 hours to control.[30][31] With the Forrestal out of commission, McCain volunteered for assignment with the USS Oriskany.[32]


(courtesy of Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_mccain))

or it might of been because he was the type of man that would do things like this-



(courtesy of Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_mccain))

I've read the wikipedia article. I see you left some things out.

Since we're talking about what kind of man he is:

"John McCain's pre-combat duty began when he was commissioned an ensign, and started two and a half years of training as a naval aviator at Pensacola. There he also earned a reputation as a party man."

"In 1979, McCain met and began a relationship with Cindy Lou Hensley, a teacher from Phoenix, Arizona, the only child of the founder of Hensley & Co. His wife Carol accepted a divorce in February of 1980"

I guess marital infidelity is a good quality in a Presidential candidate.

The above is from the same Wikipedia article you linked to.

From another source:

"At the Academy, aside being known as a "rowdy, raunchy, underachiever" who resented authority, Midshipman McCain became infamous as a leader among his fellow midshipmen for organizing "off-Yard activities" and hard drinking parties. Robert Timberg wrote in his book, The Nightingale's Song, that "being on liberty with John McCain was like being in a train wreck."

"McCain's grades were "marginal." He drew so many demerits for breaking curfew and other discipline issues that he graduated fifth from the bottom of the class of 1958. Despite his low "class standing," and no doubt because of the influence of his family of famous Admirals, McCain was leap-frogged ahead of more qualified applicants and granted a coveted slot to be trained as a navy pilot."

"While a pilot trainee, McCain continued to party hard. He drove a Corvette and dated an exotic dancer named "Marie the Flame of Florida." Timberg wrote that McCain "learned to fly at Pensacola, though his performance was below par, at best good enough to get by. He liked flying, but didn't love it."

"Timberg described McCain's advancement: "in the fall of 1974, McCain was transferred to Jacksonville as the executive officer of Replacement Air Group 174, the long-sought flying billet at last a reality. A few months later, he assumed command of the RAG, which trained pilots and crews for carrier deployments. The assignment was controversial, some calling it favoritism, a sop to the famous son of a famous father and grandfather, since he had not first commanded a squadron, the usual career path."

"Timberg wrote, "Off duty, usually on routine cross-country flights to Yuma and El Centro, John started carousing and running around with women. To make matters worse, some of the women with whom he was linked by rumor were subordinates . . . At the time the rumors were so widespread that, true or not, they became part of McCain's persona, impossible not to take note of."

In early 1977, Admiral Jim Holloway, Chief of Naval Operations promoted McCain to captain and transferred him from his command position "to Washington as the number-two man in the Navy's Senate liaison office. McCain was promptly given total control of the office. It wasn't long before the "fun loving and irreverent" McCain had turned the liaison office into a "late-afternoon gathering spot where senators and staffers, usually from the Armed Services and Foreign Relations committees, would drop in for a drink and the chance to unwind."

"He resigned from the Navy in 1981 and went to work for his father-in-law in Phoenix; where he used the opportunity to make powerful and wealthy friends in Arizona including banker Charles Keating and Duke Tully, the editor-in-chief of the Arizona Republic. Keating was later convicted of fraud, racketeering, and conspiracy and Tully was disgraced for concocting a phony military record of combat in Korea and Vietnam including medals for heroism."

http://www.usvetdsp.com/jan08/mccain_military_record.htm

If you're going to say that Obama has questionable judgment where his choice of associates is concerned, what about McCain?

I've read the wikipedia article. I see you left some things out.

Since we're talking about what kind of man he is:

"John McCain's pre-combat duty began when he was commissioned an ensign, and started two and a half years of training as a naval aviator at Pensacola. There he also earned a reputation as a party man."

"In 1979, McCain met and began a relationship with Cindy Lou Hensley, a teacher from Phoenix, Arizona, the only child of the founder of Hensley & Co. His wife Carol accepted a divorce in February of 1980"

I guess marital infidelity is a good quality in a Presidential candidate.

The above is from the same Wikipedia article you linked to.

From another source:

"At the Academy, aside being known as a "rowdy, raunchy, underachiever" who resented authority, Midshipman McCain became infamous as a leader among his fellow midshipmen for organizing "off-Yard activities" and hard drinking parties. Robert Timberg wrote in his book, The Nightingale's Song, that "being on liberty with John McCain was like being in a train wreck."

"McCain's grades were "marginal." He drew so many demerits for breaking curfew and other discipline issues that he graduated fifth from the bottom of the class of 1958. Despite his low "class standing," and no doubt because of the influence of his family of famous Admirals, McCain was leap-frogged ahead of more qualified applicants and granted a coveted slot to be trained as a navy pilot."

"While a pilot trainee, McCain continued to party hard. He drove a Corvette and dated an exotic dancer named "Marie the Flame of Florida." Timberg wrote that McCain "learned to fly at Pensacola, though his performance was below par, at best good enough to get by. He liked flying, but didn't love it."

"Timberg described McCain's advancement: "in the fall of 1974, McCain was transferred to Jacksonville as the executive officer of Replacement Air Group 174, the long-sought flying billet at last a reality. A few months later, he assumed command of the RAG, which trained pilots and crews for carrier deployments. The assignment was controversial, some calling it favoritism, a sop to the famous son of a famous father and grandfather, since he had not first commanded a squadron, the usual career path."

"Timberg wrote, "Off duty, usually on routine cross-country flights to Yuma and El Centro, John started carousing and running around with women. To make matters worse, some of the women with whom he was linked by rumor were subordinates . . . At the time the rumors were so widespread that, true or not, they became part of McCain's persona, impossible not to take note of."

In early 1977, Admiral Jim Holloway, Chief of Naval Operations promoted McCain to captain and transferred him from his command position "to Washington as the number-two man in the Navy's Senate liaison office. McCain was promptly given total control of the office. It wasn't long before the "fun loving and irreverent" McCain had turned the liaison office into a "late-afternoon gathering spot where senators and staffers, usually from the Armed Services and Foreign Relations committees, would drop in for a drink and the chance to unwind."

"He resigned from the Navy in 1981 and went to work for his father-in-law in Phoenix; where he used the opportunity to make powerful and wealthy friends in Arizona including banker Charles Keating and Duke Tully, the editor-in-chief of the Arizona Republic. Keating was later convicted of fraud, racketeering, and conspiracy and Tully was disgraced for concocting a phony military record of combat in Korea and Vietnam including medals for heroism."

http://www.usvetdsp.com/jan08/mccain_military_record.htm

If you're going to say that Obama has questionable judgment where his choice of associates is concerned, what about McCain?
i don't think McCain's law practice was kept afloat by a client he funneled grants to as a state senator, or was allowed to buy a house with an adjoining lot he couldn't afford by a slumlord. but it's nice to know his mis-spent youth was mis-spent like i would have liked mine to be:)

i don't think McCain's law practice was kept afloat by a client he funneled grants to as a state senator, or was allowed to buy a house with an adjoining lot he couldn't afford by a slumlord. but it's nice to know his mis-spent youth was mis-spent like i would have liked mine to be:)

Good answer. :rolleyes:

Let's just drop the games - is it really your contention here that McCain isn't qualified to be president because he earned a reputation as a party man WHILE SERVING OUR COUNTRY? Your boy, Barry, garnered quite a reputation for being someone who partied excessively, but with one small difference between the two: Obama wasn't partying with alcohol and paling around with servicemen; he was partying with pot & coke, and paling around with people who didn't scrutinize his every move. I recon he was far too busy hating the white side of his family to risk his life for America.
"In 1979, McCain met and began a relationship with Cindy Lou Hensley, a teacher from Phoenix, Arizona, the only child of the founder of Hensley & Co. His wife Carol accepted a divorce in February of 1980"

I guess marital infidelity is a good quality in a Presidential candidate.
Funny you should mention that - it certainly was good enough for you guys, and with that said, you're breaking one of your cardinal rules, Vile....supposition, much? :eek: On that note, you don't know if he even slept with Hensley prior to 1980.

Let's just drop the games - is it really your contention here that McCain isn't qualified to be president because he earned a reputation as a party man WHILE SERVING OUR COUNTRY?

No, it's my contention that McCain's military record isn't anything to trumpet about. It's my contention that if his father wasn't an admiral, he likely would have spent his career flying mail planes in Alaska, if he was allowed to fly at all.


Your boy, Barry, garnered quite a reputation for being someone who partied excessively,...

I've heard he partied, but I hadn't heard he partied "excessively", do you have a source for that?


...but with one small difference between the two: Obama wasn't partying with alcohol and paling around with servicemen; he was partying with pot & coke, and paling around with people who didn't scrutinize his every move.

We don't know what McCain was partying with, and are you saying it's ok to "party" as long as you're wearing a uniform? Or maybe just if you're a Republican? ;)


I recon he was far too busy hating the white side of his family to risk his life for America.

Funny. I wonder how much danger McCain was in while he attended Annapolis, and got his reputation as a "party man", while he let his grades go in the dumper. Obama may have partied, but he still managed to graduate Magna Cum Laude.


Funny you should mention that - it certainly was good enough for you guys, and with that said, you're breaking one of your cardinal rules, Vile....supposition, much? :eek: On that note, you don't know if he even slept with Hensley prior to 1980.

You're right Prae, it is supposition on my part that McCain committed adultery. I'm sure his relationship with his present wife was strictly platonic until his divorce became final. I mean, you believe that right? BTW, since he was in the military at the time, he was committing a crime by having an adulterous relationship, something you can't say about Mr. Clinton, who I presume you were referring to when you mentioned "you guys".

Personally Prae, I could give a rat's ass about who he canoodled or when, but I do find it odd that the party of "family values" would overlook his past so readily.

....but I do find it odd that the party of "family values" would overlook his past so readily.
Well, unfortunately, he's all we've got, and as you know, I'm not very fond of the alternative. :(

Personally, I would've picked Romney, and if we were to compare resumes, then this wouldn't be a debate - it'd be a slaughter.

Jeez. I knew McCain was a loser, but I had no idea how much of a loser he actually was.

Marie the Flame of Florida. :lolhit:

Imagine if Senator Obama had dated a stripper in his younger days - Brooks would start a thread that would go on for six freakin' months about Obama's lack of.. well, everything.

It's going to be very interesting to see how our conservative friends spin all of this. :corn:

Jeez. I knew McCain was a loser, but I had no idea how much of a loser he actually was.


I'm not sure I would have put it quite that way Fran, but after doing some reading I have to wonder how he became a Senator much less a Presidential candidate.

Jeez. I knew McCain was a loser, but I had no idea how much of a loser he actually was.

Marie the Flame of Florida. :lolhit:

Imagine if Senator Obama had dated a stripper in his younger days - Brooks would start a thread that would go on for six freakin' months about Obama's lack of.. well, everything.

It's going to be very interesting to see how our conservative friends spin all of this. :corn:
he dated a stripper, so what? i have too...ok, ex-strippers, and none of them had names like that, but still...

"At the Academy, aside being known as a "rowdy, raunchy, underachiever" who resented authority, ......

Wow.

That's the first thing I've ever read about this guy that I really like; that he was rowdy partier who resented authority.

Midshipman McCain became infamous as a leader among his fellow midshipmen for organizing "off-Yard activities" and hard drinking parties.

Good for him.

You're only young once.

It's when a despicable son of a bitch uses cocaine like it's going out of style and then later his Daddy buys him into a position of power and he then goes on to support very harsh prison sentences for people having done the same things he'd done that causes me to vomit.

Robert Timberg wrote in his book, The Nightingale's Song, that "being on liberty with John McCain was like being in a train wreck." ----- ....... ------ "While a pilot trainee, McCain continued to party hard. He drove a Corvette and dated an exotic dancer named "Marie the Flame of Florida."

Good for McCain. I'm never going to vote for the warmongering rightwing prick, but at least I've finally discovered something about him that I find very likable and admirable.

he dated a stripper, so what? i have too...ok, ex-strippers, and none of them had names like that, but still...

I can't say it'd be good for your career if you were an officer in the Navy.

I can't say it'd be good for your career if you were an officer in the Navy.
:worship: <---would be more like it. :thumbs:

I can't say it'd be good for your career if you were an officer in the Navy.

Well then ... DON'T !

I'm not sure I would have put it quite that way Fran, but after doing some reading I have to wonder how he became a Senator much less a Presidential candidate.

Family ties - the ties that blind. :mad:

To speak in McCain's defense, if he got into the war college, then he's really, really smart. I interned there last year, and lemme tell you, those guys are some of the smartest people I've ever met.

To speak in McCain's defense, if he got into the war college, then he's really, really smart. I interned there last year, and lemme tell you, those guys are some of the smartest people I've ever met.

I'm sure you're correct in your assessment of the typical War College attendee, but McCain isn't your typical attendee. His past scholastic achievements don't seem to match your statement that only the smartest people get into the War College.

I'm sure you're correct in your assessment of the typical War College attendee, but McCain isn't your typical attendee. His past scholastic achievements don't seem to match your statement that only the smartest people get into the War College.Many former POW's attended War Colleges upon their return. It was seen as a way to get back up to speed, and none of them who wanted to go could very well be turned down. My Dad went to the Air War College at Maxwell AFB in Montgomery, AL for a year before resuming his career. The thing I remember best about the school was it's library. There was a map room where I spent many hours poring over original documents and reproductions of maps covering nearly every kind of battle ever fought -- it was a fascinating place.

Many former POW's attended War Colleges upon their return. It was seen as a way to get back up to speed, and none of them who wanted to go could very well be turned down.

Thanks, sedan. That explains a great deal.

Wow.

That's the first thing I've ever read about this guy that I really like; that he was rowdy partier who resented authority.

Good for him.

You're only young once.

Wow, you berated Bush for the very same Characteristics... going AWOL would be "going against authority".. and I'm sure you are all for soldiers leaving their posts in Iraq, so you must LOVE Bush.. right?

It's when a despicable son of a bitch uses cocaine like it's going out of style


Are you talking about Bush, or Sigmund Freud???

Are you talking about Bush, or Sigmund Freud???
or Obama?

Wow.

That's the first thing I've ever read about this guy that I really like; that he was rowdy partier who resented authority.

Good for him.

You're only young once.



Wow, you berated Bush for the very same Characteristics... going AWOL would be "going against authority"..

I cannot express to you how sorry I feel for a goofy SOB so stupid as to think that partying with strippers is on the same par as having gone AWOL from the service..........and then LYING about his having gone AWOL.

....and I'm sure you are all for soldiers leaving their posts in Iraq, so you must LOVE Bush.. right?

I couldn't give a fuck less about any soldier leaving his post in Iraq. And, no, I do not *love* the piece of human offal going by the name GWB*sh. What he did is far different. And far more dishonest, and far more dishonorable.

Are you talking about Bush, or Sigmund Freud???

George B*sh.

It matters nothing to me that Freud used cocaine. But then, it also matters nothing to me that G.W.B*sh used cocaine.

What does matter to me is that one the two people in question LIED THROUGH HIS GODDAMNED TEETH and denied that he'd ever used cocaine and subsequently wound up in the highest position of power in the U.S. government.

(hint; it was not Sigmund Freud, you clueless fucktard)

I cannot express to you how sorry I feel for a goofy SOB so stupid as to think that partying with strippers is on the same par as having gone AWOL from the service..........and then LYING about his having gone AWOL.



I couldn't give a fuck less about any soldier leaving his post in Iraq. And, no, I do not *love* the piece of human offal going by the name GWB*sh. What he did is far different. And far more dishonest, and far more dishonorable.



George B*sh.

It matters nothing to me that Freud used cocaine. But then, it also matters nothing to me that G.W.B*sh used cocaine.

What does matter to me is that one the two people in question LIED THROUGH HIS GODDAMNED TEETH and denied that he'd ever used cocaine and subsequently wound up in the highest position of power in the U.S. government.

(hint; it was not Sigmund Freud, you clueless fucktard)

Tone it down, FT. I'm getting a little tired of the needless insulting.

Tone it down, FT. I'm getting a little tired of the needless insulting.

Ok.

I apologize. I got a little overwrought.

I'm not sure I would have put it quite that way Fran, but after doing some reading I have to wonder how he became a Senator much less a Presidential candidate.
Your boy is Obama, and you wonder how McCain became a senator/presidential candidate? Please tell me you're joking.

I can't say it'd be good for your career if you were an officer in the Navy.
My dad was a high-ranking officer in the Air Force, and he took details (often through his ability to schmooze command) in Hawaii, Brazil, and the Cayman Islands. Why? So he could party his ass off when he wasn't on the clock. He was a YOUNG man, and one who took his responsibilities very seriously while on duty, but that didn't change the fact that he pulled shit (i.e. had fun) when he wasn't. He chased women, too - does that make him less of a person? Nonsense...it makes him real. In short, that's what young men do.

Your boy is Obama, and you wonder how McCain became a senator/presidential candidate? Please tell me you're joking.

If Obama had run for office on McCain's military record, I'd wonder the same about him.

My dad was a high-ranking officer in the Air Force, and he took details (often through his ability to schmooze command) in Hawaii, Brazil, and the Cayman Islands. Why? So he could party his ass off when he wasn't on the clock. He was a YOUNG man, and one who took his responsibilities very seriously while on duty, but that didn't change the fact that he pulled shit (i.e. had fun) when he wasn't. He chased women, too - does that make him less of a person? Nonsense...it makes him real. In short, that's what young men do.

I have no problem with young men "carousing", but when they're in the military, adultery is a crime.

If Obama had run for office on McCain's military record, I'd wonder the same about him.
no, instead he has a speech in 2004.:bike:

Exactly.

no, instead he has a speech in 2004.:bike:

Obama's speech was better than McCain's record.

Obama's speech was better than McCain's record.
just how did you come to Obama?:worship:

They say a person's real 'character' is what shows when the public is not looking... and the press is not invited.

*****

There were no cameras or press invited to what you are about to read about, and the story comes from one person in New Hampshire.

One evening last July, Senator John McCain of Arizona arrived at the New Hampshire home of Erin Flanagan for sandwiches, chocolate-chip cookies and a heartfelt talk about Iraq. They had met at a presidential debate, when she asked the candidates what they would do to bring home American soldiers - - soldiers like her brother, who had been killed in action a few months earlier.

Mr. McCain did not bring cameras or press.

Instead, he brought his youngest son, James McCain, 19, then a private first class in the Marine Corps about to leave for Iraq. Father and son sat down to hear more about Ms. Flanagan's brother Michael Cleary, a 24-year-old Army First Lieutenant killed by an ambush ... a roadside bomb.

No one mentioned the obvious: In just days, Jimmy McCain could face similar perils. 'I can't imagine what it must have been like for them as they were coming to meet with a family that .....' Ms. Flanagan recalled, choking up. 'We lost a dear one,' she finished.

Mr. McCain, now the presumptive Republican nominee, has staked his candidacy on the promise that American troops can bring stability to Iraq. What he almost never says is that one of them is his own son, who spent seven months patrolling Anbar Province and learned of his father's New Hampshire victory in January while he was digging a stuck military vehicle out of the mud. Two of Jimmy's three older brothers went into the military. Doug McCain, 48, was a Navy pilot. Jack McCain, 21, is to graduate from the Naval Academy next year, raising the chances that his father, if elected, could become the first president since Dwight D. Eisenhower with a son at war.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/mccain/mccainsons.asp

Obama's speech was better than McCain's record.

At least McCain HAS a record.

Here's a challenge for you, Vile.

How would you convince someone that Obama's professional background (ATTORNEY/LECTURER) in any way prepares him to take on the responsibilities of the POTUS.

That question really puzzles me when I hear otherwise intelligent people say they are supporting Barack. Everybody I've asked so far seems to turn into blathering morons repeating CHANGE and HOPE and very little of anything else. Surely you can do better at explaining your choice, eh?

:confused:
SMW

I congratulate John McCain's sons for their service.

I have no problem with young men "carousing", but when they're in the military, adultery is a crime.

How would you KNOW.? Have you signed on the dotted line
and enlisted.And if s'not than what's yer Authority.?
I want hard evidence to back up such comments.
Or I'll report you to your Boss as a faux pas fraud,of sorts.
Sorta.
An all.

At least McCain HAS a record.

Assuming you're talking about his military record, which is what we were discussing, he does have a record, it's just not very impressive.


Here's a challenge for you, Vile.

How would you convince someone that Obama's professional background (ATTORNEY/LECTURER) in any way prepares him to take on the responsibilities of the POTUS.

The answer is that I wouldn't attempt to convince anyone that he's qualified to be President based on his professional background as an attorney or as a lecturer. I might try to convince them that he's qualified to be President based on his educational background, and his professional background as a US Senator.


That question really puzzles me when I hear otherwise intelligent people say they are supporting Barack. Everybody I've asked so far seems to turn into blathering morons repeating CHANGE and HOPE and very little of anything else. Surely you can do better at explaining your choice, eh?

:confused:
SMW

Frankly SMW, this is a habit you need to lose. You've asked this question before, and been given quite detailed answers by more than one poster, but here you are again saying you've never gotten any answer other than "change and hope".

I'll try again.

Barack Obama graduated from Harvard Law School Magna Cum Laude, an outstanding academic achievement, especially for someone from a middle-class background who attended public schools. Compare this to John McCain's educational background, one where McCain attended private schools as a youth, and then Annapolis where he finished near the bottom of his class. In other words, Obama is a person who worked hard and made the most out of the opportunities available to him, as opposed to relying on his family's name or connections to help his career. That's a plus in my book.

As to his professional career, from Wikipedia:

"Obama was a founding member of the board of directors of Public Allies in 1992, resigning before his wife, Michelle, became the founding executive director of Public Allies Chicago in spring 1993. He served on the board of directors of the Woods Fund of Chicago, which in 1985 had been the first foundation to fund Obama's DCP, from 1993–2002, and served on the board of directors of The Joyce Foundation from 1994–2002. Obama served on the board of directors of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge from 1995–2002, as founding president and chairman of the board of directors from 1995–1999. He also served on the board of directors of the Chicago Lawyers' Committee for Civil Rights Under Law, the Center for Neighborhood Technology, and the Lugenia Burns Hope Center."

Busy guy.

As to his political career, he served in the Illinois State Legislature from 1996-2004, and the US Senate since 2004.

In summary, I'm not voting for "change and hope", I'm voting for someone who knows the value of hard work, has an outstanding academic and professional background, and IMO, enough experience in politics to seek the job as President.

Now I'll ask you...assuming you're voting for McCain, can you explain why?

just how did you come to Obama?:worship:

See above.

How would you convince someone that Obama's professional background (ATTORNEY/LECTURER) in any way prepares him to take on the responsibilities of the POTUS.
Well, for a man who's prepared to do nothing while in office, I'd imagine perfectly.
That question really puzzles me when I hear otherwise intelligent people say they are supporting Barack. Everybody I've asked so far seems to turn into blathering morons repeating CHANGE and HOPE and very little of anything else. Surely you can do better at explaining your choice, eh?
He doesn't have to. It a brilliant campaign, actually - it affords Obama's followers to glom onto his Aristotle-cribbing philosophy (as if ambiguity is a good thing in politics).

In summary, I'm not voting for "change and hope", I'm voting for someone who knows the value of hard work, has an outstanding academic and professional background, and IMO, enough experience in politics to seek the job as President.
It's nice to know that you would've voted for Romney then. His academic, financial AND political record trumps Obama's by a fold of 10.

What has Obama ever achieved in his personal life? What money has he ever made outside of politics? Outside of his incredibly "noteworthy" time spent as a "real" senator (for a whopping year and a half, that is), what makes you think this man is anything other than a dilettante?

It's nice to know that you would've voted for Romney then. His academic, financial AND political record trumps Obama's by a fold of 10.

He's also a Mormon. That calls into question his mental faculties.


What has Obama ever achieved in his personal life?

Huh?


What money has he ever made outside of politics?

Who cares?


Outside of his incredibly "noteworthy" time spent as a "real" senator (for a whopping year and a half, that is), what makes you think this man is anything other than a dilettante?

That's your opinion, not mine. :)

He's also a Mormon. That calls into question his mental faculties.
LOL - I guess. :D Okay, so you get a point there.
Who cares?
The people who live in reality, maybe???

If only we had nothing else but domestic issues to worry about, I could nearly be convinced that graduating from Harvard LAW school is enough to qualify someone to serve as Commander in Chief. If we were not in the middle of a nasty war where thousands of American lives are at stake, I might be convinced that someone whose expertise is serving on various social service committees is qualified. If I believed that a person's patriotism has nothing to do with his ability to serve as POTUS, I might be tempted to vote for Obama.

When it comes to supporting John McCain, his experience, military record, accomplishments and achievements throughout his long career of public service more than qualifies him in my eyes. But even if he had none of those assets, I'd still be inclined to vote for him because there is not a single doubt in my mind that his first loyalty will always be America. I just can't say that I believe the same about Obama. Not saying I think Obama is anti-American... just saying that I believe RACE is his number one loyalty... always has been, always will be. He's said it himself in his books:

From Dreams of My Father: 'I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites.'

From Dreams of My Father: 'I found a solace in nursing a pervasive sense of grievance and animosity against my mothers race.'

From Dreams of My Father: 'There was something about him that made me wary, a little too sure of himself, maybe.. And white.'

From Dreams of My Father : 'It remained necessary to prove which side you were on, to show your loyalty to the black masses, to strike out and name names.'

From Dreams of My Father: 'I never emulate white men and brown men whose fates didn't speak to my own. It was into my father's image, the black man, son of Africa , that I'd packed all the attributes I sought in myself, the attributes of Martin and Malcolm, DuBois and Mandela.'

From Audacity of Hope: 'I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.'

Or more recently:

'As I've said about the flag pin, I don't want to be perceived as taking
sides,' Obama said. 'There are a lot of people in the world to whom the
American flag is a symbol of oppression. And the anthem itself conveys a
war-like message. You know, the bombs bursting in air and all. It should
be swapped for something less parochial and less bellicose. I like the song
'I'd Like to Teach the World to Sing.' If that were our anthem, then I
might salute it.'


Good thing we live in a free country where my vote counts just as much as yours, eh?

;)
SMW

He's also a Mormon. That calls into question his mental faculties.


While I'm no big fan of Mormanism, if anyone's choice of church should be questioned, it's Obama's.

While I'm no big fan of Mormanism, if anyone's choice of church should be questioned, it's Obama's.
Zing!

I feel sorry for Mormons. The FLDS has given them an undeserved reputation.

I feel sorry for Mormons. The FLDS has given them an undeserved reputation.

Speaking of reputations... what single profession is the butt of more jokes than any other profession in America?

Yep, lawyers.

And yet the Dem Party has given us our choice of 3. How do you pick the lesser of 3 evils when they're all attorneys??

:lolhit:

Gee, it's not like anyone here would believe that a man who "unknowingly" attended an overtly racist church for 20 years would EVER say anything like...
'I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites.'

'I found a solace in nursing a pervasive sense of grievance and animosity against my mothers race.'

'There was something about him that made me wary, a little too sure of himself, maybe.. And white.'

'It remained necessary to prove which side you were on, to show your loyalty to the black masses, to strike out and name names.'

'I never emulate white men and brown men whose fates didn't speak to my own. It was into my father's image, the black man, son of Africa , that I'd packed all the attributes I sought in myself, the attributes of Martin and Malcolm, DuBois and Mandela.'

'I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.'
:@@:

Those quotes are scary as they are telling.

Even Obama was realistic enough to think that he'd never be presidential material (IOW, realistic enough to believe that his honesty would ever come back to haunt him).

In short, if we vote this man in, then we'll get exactly what we deserve (i.e. it'll be the biggest mistake we've ever made as a nation).

When it comes to supporting John McCain, his experience, military record, accomplishments and achievements throughout his long career of public service more than qualifies him in my eyes.

I'm curious if you could be more specific about his military record. What is it that you think is outstanding about it?

If you don't mind I'd be interested in hearing about his accomplishments and achievements as well.

While I'm no big fan of Mormanism, if anyone's choice of church should be questioned, it's Obama's.

Honestly Leper, I don't think we should be electing Christians either, but I didn't want to start a discussion about religion in this thread.

Gee, it's not like anyone here would believe that a man who "unknowingly" attended an overtly racist church for 20 years would EVER say anything like...


The fact that you have to exaggerate makes you look desperate.

I'm curious if you could be more specific about his military record. What is it that you think is outstanding about it?

If you don't mind I'd be interested in hearing about his accomplishments and achievements as well.

Obviously, Vile... you know about McCain's military record. The fact that you don't think it's outstanding speaks volumes about your lack of respect for those in military service. I don't think anything else needs to be said from this end.

The fact that you have to exaggerate makes you look desperate.
You're right - I did. He knew.

Ok.

I apologize. I got a little overwrought.


" See how fast they move Gwen when ya call their Bluff. "
George Kellerman { The Out of Towners } 1970

" My wife can verify that. "
George

" I can verify that. "
Gwen

Honestly Leper, I don't think we should be electing Christians either, but I didn't want to start a discussion about religion in this thread.

Very telling, very telling.

Obviously, Vile... you know about McCain's military record.

Yes, I do.


The fact that you don't think it's outstanding speaks volumes about your lack of respect for those in military service. I don't think anything else needs to be said from this end.

SMW, I was asking what you thought about his record, and instead you have to lie about what I think. You can do better than that, can't you?

Honestly Leper, I don't think we should be electing Christians either, but I didn't want to start a discussion about religion in this thread.
We should elect only Jews, atheists/agnostics, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims? I would say simply that the amount of religious pandering in politics is more than ridiculous, but sadly, you can't get anywhere in politics without trumpeting your faith at every turn.

Very telling, very telling.

Oh? What does it tell you?

I don't have any problems electing "Christians", per se - my problem lies in this fact:
I would say simply that the amount of religious pandering in politics is more than ridiculous, but sadly, you can't get anywhere in politics without trumpeting your faith at every turn.
I agree, Nap. :(

I don't have any problems electing "Christians", per se - my problem lies in this fact:

I agree, Nap. :(

I agree as well, Prae. I don't care what, if any, religion a person may follow, I just don't think a person's religion is a qualification for public office.

Oh? What does it tell you?
Well, perhaps that you've dismissed 80% of the people who live in this country as viable candidates based on their religion (of which, Christianity is an American staple).

I agree as well, Prae. I don't care what, if any, religion a person may follow, I just don't think a person's religion is a qualification for public office.
Ah, that may well explain my last post. :)

I agree as well, Prae. I don't care what, if any, religion a person may follow, I just don't think a person's religion is a qualification for public office.
I agree with your above statement, but your other post stated that you think we should not be electing Christians. Not Christain zealots, not people who make policy based on their Christian church's dogma, etc.... but Christains in general.

I would have thought you would be one of the last people to disregard a candidate based on a broad generalization of an entire group of over 200 million in the U.S.

I agree with your above statement, but your other post stated that you think we should not be electing Christians. Not Christain zealots, not people who make policy based on their Christian church's dogma, etc.... but Christains in general.

I would have thought you would be one of the last people to disregard a candidate based on a broad generalization of an entire group of over 200 million in the U.S.

My statement was poorly worded, my apologies. What I meant by that statement was that we shouldn't elect people based on the fact that they're Christian. In this country it would be difficult, if not impossible, for a non-Christian to be elected President, and I think that's wrong.

Ann Coulter says she will campaign for Hillary if McCain is the Republican nominee. (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,327605,00.html)

John T. Reed (http://johntreed.com/McCain.html) on John McCain:

McCain’s Vietnam service

McCain was a Navy pilot. He got shot down over North Vietnam and captured and imprisoned by the enemy. Both his shoulders were broken by the sides of his cockpit when he pulled the ejection handle. He was a prisoner of war for five and a half years and was tortured for much of that time. He was offered some deal that would let him go home early and refused to comply with its terms.

The media says he was given a chance to leave Vietnam and go home but he “refused.” Well, wait a minute. How, exactly, does one refuse to leave North Vietnam when one is an unarmed, crippled prisoner of war? If the North Vietnamese want you returned home, they just fly you to a neutral country and dump you there. They do not ask your damned permission. There has to be more to the story than “McCain refused to leave.”

I just can't say that I believe the same about Obama. Not saying I think Obama is anti-American... just saying that I believe RACE is his number one loyalty... always has been, always will be. He's said it himself in his books:

From Dreams of My Father: 'I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites.'

From Dreams of My Father: 'I found a solace in nursing a pervasive sense of grievance and animosity against my mothers race.'

From Dreams of My Father: 'There was something about him that made me wary, a little too sure of himself, maybe.. And white.'

From Dreams of My Father : 'It remained necessary to prove which side you were on, to show your loyalty to the black masses, to strike out and name names.'

From Dreams of My Father: 'I never emulate white men and brown men whose fates didn't speak to my own. It was into my father's image, the black man, son of Africa , that I'd packed all the attributes I sought in myself, the attributes of Martin and Malcolm, DuBois and Mandela.'

From Audacity of Hope: 'I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.' I really wish you'd stop posting the lies people send you. What I'd really like to know is if you are aware that they're lies and post them anyways or if you're really this gullible.

From snopes.com (http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/ownwords.asp):

Origins: The above-quoted e-mail forward reproduces passages taken from Barack Obama's two books — Dreams from My Father (1995) and The Audacity of Hope — with the presumed intent of presenting Obama as a self-declared racist. However, these cherry-picked statements are all presented devoid of context, and some of them are reworded from the original (or apparently non-existent).Or more recently:

'As I've said about the flag pin, I don't want to be perceived as taking
sides,' Obama said. 'There are a lot of people in the world to whom the
American flag is a symbol of oppression. And the anthem itself conveys a
war-like message. You know, the bombs bursting in air and all. It should
be swapped for something less parochial and less bellicose. I like the song
'I'd Like to Teach the World to Sing.' If that were our anthem, then I
might salute it.' Again, from snopes.com (http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/stance.asp):

Origins: Back in October 2007, one of the hottest e-mail forwards was a picture capturing Democratic presidential hopeful Barack Obama standing in front of a U.S. flag
(at an Iowa political event) with his hands clasped in front of him during the playing of the U.S. national anthem (while other persons on the platform with him stood with their hands placed over their hearts). This photographic brouhaha soon mutated into a (false) claim that Barack Obama "refused to put his hand over his heart during the Pledge of Allegiance" and then into the (even more false) claim that "he refused to recite the Pledge of Allegiance" at all (rumors which the Obama campaign soon provided evidence to negate).

While this controversy was all the rage on the Internet, political columnist John Semmens included a bit at the end of one of his satirical "Semi-News" columns (found on the web site of The Arizona Conservative) offering a mock explanation from the Senator about his non-hand-over-heart stance, poking fun at Obama by having him voice the opinion that "the American flag is a symbol of oppression" and that the U.S. national anthem is too "bellicose" and should be replaced by something gentler like "I'd Like to Teach the World to Sing."

This bit of satire evidently came off as too believable to some readers, as it has since been excerpted from Semmens' column and forwarded via e-mail (without attribution) as a genuine statement from Senator Obama. However topical it might be, it's just a bit of political commentary-cum-humor, though, not the Senator's own words.Good thing we live in a free country where my vote counts just as much as yours, eh?
Lucky for you posting lies on the internet isn't a crime.

I really wish you'd stop posting the lies people send you.

That seems unlikely.


What I'd really like to know is if you are aware that they're lies and post them anyways or if you're really this gullible.


Considering she likes to make up her own lies, I'd guess it's the former.

My statement was poorly worded, my apologies. What I meant by that statement was that we shouldn't elect people based on the fact that they're Christian. In this country it would be difficult, if not impossible, for a non-Christian to be elected President, and I think that's wrong.

What exactly does " poorly worded " mean.?
I need to go back and check out some of yer posts.
I hope yer not one of those whose highly unwilling to
concede even in the face of negating avouchment.

....I just don't think a person's religion is a qualification for public office.

Well, I agree that religious affiliation shouldn't be a qualification for public office.

But the reality of the situation is, as we are all perfectly well aware, that in America it is an ironclad requirement that any political candidate for president must profess to be a Christian.

What exactly does " poorly worded " mean.?


For me, "poorly worded" means I expressed my idea in an unintentionally ambiguous way.

For me, "poorly worded" means I expressed my idea in an unintentionally ambiguous way.

" For me ".? What the hell does that mean.?
As a Mod you should realize there is NO Me.I mean You.
Yer here to serve at the pleasure of udder posters.
I presume.

" For me ".? What the hell does that mean.?
As a Mod you should realize there is NO Me.I mean You.
Yer here to serve at the pleasure of udder posters.
I presume.

I'm also a poster here Foolsworth, and occasionally I don't express myself as well as I should and that leads to understandable confusion for the reader.

What about you?

The answer is that I wouldn't attempt to convince anyone that he's qualified to be President based on his professional background as an attorney or as a lecturer. I might try to convince them that he's qualified to be President based on his educational background, and his professional background as a US Senator.
his entire legal practice has consisted of a client he funneled grants to as a State Senator..one of the few things he did in Springfield...besides vote "present", of course...which well prepared him well for his "present" votes as a U.S. Senator.



Frankly SMW, this is a habit you need to lose. You've asked this question before, and been given quite detailed answers by more than one poster, but here you are again saying you've never gotten any answer other than "change and hope".

we still Hope Obama will Change and do something outside the norm for Chicago politics and actually do something other than vote for 93 tax increases, and fund his supporters.



Barack Obama graduated from Harvard Law School Magna Cum Laude, an outstanding academic achievement, especially for someone from a middle-class background who attended public schools. Compare this to John McCain's educational background, one where McCain attended private schools as a youth, and then Annapolis where he finished near the bottom of his class. In other words, Obama is a person who worked hard and made the most out of the opportunities available to him, as opposed to relying on his family's name or connections to help his career. That's a plus in my book.
good for him, but i think they have the backgrounds transposed. Obama's Granny (the one who raised him and he repaid by throwing under the bus to defend Rev Wright) is a bank exec.

As to his professional career, from Wikipedia:

"Obama was a founding member of the board of directors of Public Allies in 1992, resigning before his wife, Michelle, became the founding executive director of Public Allies Chicago in spring 1993. He served on the board of directors of the Woods Fund of Chicago, which in 1985 had been the first foundation to fund Obama's DCP, from 1993–2002, and served on the board of directors of The Joyce Foundation from 1994–2002. Obama served on the board of directors of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge from 1995–2002, as founding president and chairman of the board of directors from 1995–1999. He also served on the board of directors of the Chicago Lawyers' Committee for Civil Rights Under Law, the Center for Neighborhood Technology, and the Lugenia Burns Hope Center."

Busy guy.

so busy Michelle complained about almost losing the house and defaulting on their student loans....until the 1st book was written. maybe he should have gotten a job or paid more attention to his law practice?

In summary, I'm not voting for "change and hope", I'm voting for someone who knows the value of hard work, has an outstanding academic and professional background, and IMO, enough experience in politics to seek the job as President.
if that's your idea of "outstanding" you need to change your expectations and hope your party can do better in 2012.

Now I'll ask you...assuming you're voting for McCain, can you explain why?
i can give you one good reason-he's no Obama. he's risked his life when a sane man would have ran (the Forrestal incident), refused favor when he was at rock bottom (staying in Hanoi when offered an early out), and served his state by actually doing something with his time in the House & Senate.

I'm also a poster here Foolsworth, and occasionally I don't express myself as well as I should and that leads to understandable confusion for the reader.

What about you?

I most definately serve at the pleasure of udder posters.
If they're not pleased at what I write I move on.
It's like If I start one new thread and nobody's interested
then I move on to a nutter post,that nobody's interested in.
You don't hear me whine'n.

his entire legal practice has consisted of a client he funneled grants to as a State Senator..one of the few things he did in Springfield...besides vote "present", of course...which well prepared him well for his "present" votes as a U.S. Senator.

I'm not sure where you get your information, perhaps the same place as SMW, but according to Wikipedia:

"Obama worked as an associate attorney with Davis, Miner, Barnhill & Galland from 1993 to 2002. After 1996, he worked at the firm only during the summer, when the Illinois Senate was not in session. Obama worked on cases where the firm represented community organizers, pursued discrimination claims, and on voting rights cases. He also spent time on real estate transactions, filing incorporation papers and defending clients against minor lawsuits. Mostly he drew up briefs, contracts, and other legal documents as a junior associate on legal teams."

It would seem Obama didn't have his own practice, and he did work for more than one client.


we still Hope Obama will Change and do something outside the norm for Chicago politics and actually do something other than vote for 93 tax increases, and fund his supporters.

Interesting opinion, unfortunately you don't offer any facts to support it.


good for him, but i think they have the backgrounds transposed. Obama's Granny (the one who raised him and he repaid by throwing under the bus to defend Rev Wright) is a bank exec.

Apparently what you "think" doesn't jibe with the facts.


so busy Michelle complained about almost losing the house and defaulting on their student loans....until the 1st book was written. maybe he should have gotten a job or paid more attention to his law practice?

You're right, he should have been more concerned with himself, rather than working to help others. That would make him a better public servant. /sarcasm


if that's your idea of "outstanding" you need to change your expectations and hope your party can do better in 2012.

Can you tell me what isn't outstanding about graduating from Harvard Magna Cum Laude? About being the first black editor of the Harvard Law Review?


i can give you one good reason-he's no Obama.

Funny, but not an argument.


he's risked his life when a sane man would have ran (the Forrestal incident), refused favor when he was at rock bottom (staying in Hanoi when offered an early out), and served his state by actually doing something with his time in the House & Senate.

So...you don't think he's sane, you actually believe the North Vietnamese gave him a choice, and he did "something" as a Senator. What a ringing endorsement.

Pretty thin, Mike.

Pretty thin, Mike.
it's thin, but it's still a step up from the liberal Cult of Personality de jour.

Do you even know what a cult of personality is? You're doing the same crap as the people who insist Bush is fascist.

Do you even know what a cult of personality is? You're doing the same crap as the people who insist Bush is fascist.
unfortunately i do.

it's thin, but it's still a step up from the liberal Cult of Personality de jour.

I don't get it, Mike. You seem to be an intelligent guy. You ask why I like Obama, and I give you specific concrete examples of his background and accomplishments without once referring to any of his personality traits, and then you accuse me of belonging to a "cult of personality".

Can you explain that?