Some interesting thoughts...

Dumber and dumber:
The rise of man and his dumbing down (http://www.moq.org/forum/RichardDouglas/richard.html)
By Richard Douglas

Our current modes of rationality are not moving society forward into a better world. They are taking it further and further away from that better world. Since the Renaissance these modes have worked. As long as the need for food, clothing and shelter is dominant they will continue to work. But now that for huge masses of people these needs no longer overwhelm everything else, the whole structure of reason, handed down to us from ancient times, is no longer adequate. It begins to be seen for what it really is - emotionally hollow, esthetically meaningless and spiritually empty.
- Robert M Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motocycle Maintenance


There is a fatal flaw in the intellectual foundations of our society, a fault which is only truly revealing itself now, in the late twentieth century. We know its effects as "dumbing down". This is a world which is losing faith in rationality, in the official answers given by society's intellectual establishment. Belief in aliens, the powers of Nostradamus, codes in the Bible, conspiracy theories of all sorts; all these testify to a growing irrationality. Or rather, what they are signs of is an increasing difficulty in separating fantasy from reality.

This is a world which has grown alienated from ideas, in which people are losing the capacity to truly believe in anything. Values have become almost entirely relativised, convictions reduced to mere opinions. Society is now so dominated by official experts that people have become divorced from their own abilities to make sense of the world, to determine for themselves what they really think. All the official beliefs of society, all the things we regard as true, are now so remote and impersonalised we find it very hard to truly identify with them. Meanwhile, our personal lives become utterly personal and subjective, and we all but lose the wherewithal to govern these with our beliefs, to structure our lives, to achieve any real certainty in the personal choices we make. Isolated from principles, we live our lives in an increasingly banal fantasy land in which our natural priorities are inverted. The serious becomes trivial, and the trivial, serious; news turns into entertainment, and entertainment, news.

Why should this be, after centuries of progress? Why should society be getting dumber now, just when more people are receiving more education than ever before, when society is technologically more powerful than it has ever been? It doesn't make sense. We have all been brought up with the idea that things should be getting better and better, society more and more powerful. So what is going wrong?

...

We become used to not applying ourselves in our daily lives. Just a few decades ago, everyday life presented a continual series of little challenges. Simply to have to make up a fire every morning taught one mental discipline and gave weight to the quotidian, creating a conduit between the world within the mind and that without. Such a thing was a small job and yet one knew it was important, both because of the acute physical discomfort one might experience before a fire was lit, and because of the potential to burn the house down if one did not do it right. Tasks like this are intellectual, although we would not generally recognise them by that name. They require the active use of the mind, the application of one's mental resources in order to solve a problem. To go through life meeting such challenges is to get a solid grounding in the way of the world, to understand that life is full of natural checks and balances, that everything costs, that hard work and concentration are required for success in anything. It is, simply, to keep one's mind sharp; not necessarily intellectual, in the sense we would normally understand, but nonetheless keen.

...

What this means is that society becomes increasingly subject to a bureaucracy of enlightenment which is itself becoming increasingly inefficient. The influence of academe is growing in inverse proportion to its own intellectual integrity. Within the university, studies are becoming so specialised that it is all but impossible for anyone to set their work in a wider context and make some sense of it. As for drawing some moral from one's studies - what might be thought the purpose of education - this is a very old-fashioned idea, fit only for an intellectual museum, laughable in the present day.

...

Accordingly, we become lost, bereft of guidance, unsure what to believe, what to do. We spend our lives in a dreamworld, desperately searching for something tangible, something to truly believe in, but capable only of voyaging deeper into fantasy, into a wholly subjective existence. Our withdrawal from the wider world, both the physical world around us and the world of ideas, leaves us perpetually unsatisfied, perpetually seeking a firm sense of place in the world and a genuine communion with what lies outside of us. So long as we do not challenge the ideal of objective knowledge, this is the state in which we will remain.


******************

Anybody have any original thoughts on this subject?

This is way too deep for me.
think I'd rather watch the grass grow

This is way too deep for me.
think I'd rather watch the grass grow

LOL -- I hereby declare you EXHIBIT #1

:lolhit:

Well thank you
I've always considered myself a bit of an exhibitionist
Wanna see?

*covers eyes*

Sure, flash away!!

Hay ... I can expound.
Maybe later tonight.After a few.

I'm famalier with this topic and it's VERY relevant and Social.it goes
straight to the heart of what defines a Society and their motivations.
Like the Post WWII Era of new Mom's & Dad's who lived hand to
mouth,many a day,in order of dreams of a new washer or maybe a
Ranch home in the suburbs.Those singular desires,are all but
forgotten.Now parents are now lookin for some Mansion,like what they
see on many a Famous or Lotto persons TV profile.
Yes peer pressure existed in the 40's and 50's,but not in the same
tenor it is today.The peer pressure in them olden days was over
the basics,things that were needed for the essential continuation
of life.A better life.Not silly things like the next dopey Tattoo,or
gidget,gadget,gizmo that adds nothing to the quality of life.
This is where being " Rational " comes into play.
Our youngest,are now almost tragically flawed with a preponderance
of poor choices,lack of proper aims and ambitions.lest of all a
leaning towards manners,and Mores.Today's kids are becomg,flat-out
nasty.Like what some parents have weened.Just watch - Maury -
that bastard pimp of TV fame who found a niche,by exploiting those
in Society,who literally have No Sense.No common.Not just
missing a little common sense,but devoid of even what it means.
Parents used to be able to survive,on just Good Horse sense,years ago.
Which is being " Rational ".
Now,however,having sound mind and body,is seen as corny and
odd.Some teenagers actually strive to look like Alice Cooper.
Or some version of - The Adams Family -.As if everyday is just
Halloween,and a big joke.Just sashay thru the day,in make believe
land.Maybe that's why we have a slight housing crisis.People didn't
use reason and know,they couldn't afford a refinance or move-up
to a bigger,more expensive/expansive Home.And lenders,were just
as juvenile.
I could Go On.

Agree, Foolie. I believe that a little 'suffering' builds character -- especially in children. Not talking about abuse or neglect or anything so radical. But many of today's parents seem to put their own lives on hold and dedicate every waking moment to their children's happiness. Organized sports, competitive pursuits like cheerleading for 4 year olds and beauty contests for 6 year olds, indulging kids with every new video game and/or electronic gadget that hits the market does very little to prepare a child to be a well-rounded, productive adult. Wouldn't it be nice if all that energy and money were spent on teaching children something that would last a lifetime... like studying classical music or taking art classes or voice training?

I read a column the other day where a guy said the dumbing down of America started about the same time the govt decided it was necessary to print warning labels on every plastic bag, "DO NOT PUT THIS BAG OVER YOUR HEAD," followed by the insertion of TV station's call letters on the lower right hand corner of the screen and telling us not to drink antifreeze as it might taste good, but will kill you. AS IF we're so dumb!

Oh wait... maybe some of us are!

;)
SMW

The really sad part comes,when college is inserted.Inserted via a
conglomeration of Liberal Professors,weaning their impressionable
mush-laden students brains into linguini.
Like Ward Churchill { a vile exaggeration of a loon professor}
That is where this Country has really fallen.
Just ask David Horowitz or Denis Prager.

Tell me what great author said :

" There's nonsense so bad,only an Intellectual would believe it. "
-- ?

Smartmouthwoman

Amen brother/sister

We lack the intellectual sophistication required to comprehend our problems. Have we become dumber? Possibly.

I think the problem lies in the fact that technology moves at lightening speed and our human sciences move at a snail like pace. New ideas are tested and used or rejected quickly in the natural sciences because there is generally money-in-it. Such does not apply in the human sciences. It takes generations to accept or reject new ideas in these fields because it depends on a generational change in academia where these matters receive intellectual testing.

I think that it might be useful to think of civilization passing through growth periods like the individual. Culture goes through the growing stages just as an individual and our culture is approaching the post-adolescent stage. We must learn how to move from adolescent apathy to adult responsibility over night or our species is doomed to have a short span on earth.

Darwin informs us that the species that fails to adapt to a changing environment will perish. Our environment is primarily a human created environment. Our technology is helping us change our environment at a very fast pace and we fail to comprehend our problems because we lack the intellectual sophistication necessary to comprehend how to adapt.

Smartmouthwoman

Amen brother/sister

We lack the intellectual sophistication required to comprehend our problems.

Not to detract from your spot-on comments, but the fact that you've said this to SMW, of all people, is hilarious! :lolhit:

Can we blame this on TV, and more recently, the internet ?

New groundbreaking thinking, and approaches to problem solving are usually done in secure, quite enviroments, more isolated from the outside world, hard to find somewhere like that these days.

Not to detract from your spot-on comments, but the fact that you've said this to SMW, of all people, is hilarious! :lolhit:

And here I was trying to play nice with you, Frannie.

:slap:

Can we blame this on TV, and more recently, the internet ?

New groundbreaking thinking, and approaches to problem solving are usually done in secure, quite enviroments, more isolated from the outside world, hard to find somewhere like that these days.

I don't know, Paul. TV maybe... but the internet? Such a vast source of knowledge being available to nearly everyone just doesn't seem like a bad thing to me. However, I do wish more brilliant young minds would choose a field where they could make a real difference to mankind instead of vying to be yet another 'computer genius' with a burning desire to create the perfect video game. The world has many more of those kind than we'll ever need.

Smartmouthwoman

Amen brother/sister

We lack the intellectual sophistication required to comprehend our problems. Have we become dumber? Possibly.

I think the problem lies in the fact that technology moves at lightening speed and our human sciences move at a snail like pace. New ideas are tested and used or rejected quickly in the natural sciences because there is generally money-in-it. Such does not apply in the human sciences. It takes generations to accept or reject new ideas in these fields because it depends on a generational change in academia where these matters receive intellectual testing.

I think that it might be useful to think of civilization passing through growth periods like the individual. Culture goes through the growing stages just as an individual and our culture is approaching the post-adolescent stage. We must learn how to move from adolescent apathy to adult responsibility over night or our species is doomed to have a short span on earth.

Darwin informs us that the species that fails to adapt to a changing environment will perish. Our environment is primarily a human created environment. Our technology is helping us change our environment at a very fast pace and we fail to comprehend our problems because we lack the intellectual sophistication necessary to
comprehend how to adapt.

Not necessarily.Combining a Liberal college education and the notion the
Government is there to save you,even from yerself { bail out of
Mortgage crisis } and that Socialism is a good thing,as in more
sophisticated { Europeans } and a growing young man & woman are
left conflated.Either adopt this Euro Socialistic notion that Government
exists to prop-up and care for ALL it's citizens,all of the time.
As in the Hillary demand of Hospitalization for every american.
Republicans are still the Party of Less Government.
Most University's have few,and some NO Conservative Professors.
Because Conservatism is considered bad form.Like a poor golf
swing or hairdo.Outdated,fuddy-duddy and too simplistic to deal
with the myriad of daily little conundrums facing this nouveau kitsch
motley crew of Technocrats.
I say it's displaced priority.This new culture shock of having most
everything the Advertisers push is overwhelming the populace and
causing displacement.Like I said,50 years ago it was having a new
car { 1 per family } or new washer that was a big deal and
saved for with patience and perserverence.Today,that THE last
God damned thing folks do.

And here I was trying to play nice with you, Frannie.

:slap:

Sorry. Your little rant about me "screaming louder than anyone about high gas prices" got my back up. Glad we worked it out.

:)

Not necessarily.Combining a Liberal college education and the notion the
Government is there to save you,even from yerself { bail out of
Mortgage crisis } and that Socialism is a good thing,as in more
sophisticated { Europeans } and a growing young man & woman are
left conflated.Either adopt this Euro Socialistic notion that Government
exists to prop-up and care for ALL it's citizens,all of the time.
As in the Hillary demand of Hospitalization for every american.
Republicans are still the Party of Less Government.
Most University's have few,and some NO Conservative Professors.
Because Conservatism is considered bad form.Like a poor golf
swing or hairdo.Outdated,fuddy-duddy and too simplistic to deal
with the myriad of daily little conundrums facing this nouveau kitsch
motley crew of Technocrats.
I say it's displaced priority.This new culture shock of having most
everything the Advertisers push is overwhelming the populace and
causing displacement.Like I said,50 years ago it was having a new
car { 1 per family } or new washer that was a big deal and
saved for with patience and perserverence.Today,that THE last
God damned thing folks do.
Interesting. Are Governments not there to care for the people all of the time.

Isnt that what we employ them for, looking after us with our money ?

Interesting. Are Governments not there to care for the people all of the time.

Isnt that what we employ them for, looking after us with our money ?

" The best government rests on the people,and not on the
few,on persons and not on property,on the free development of
public opinion and not on authority. "

-- George Bancroft

" The best government rests on the people,and not on the
few,on persons and not on property,on the free development of
public opinion and not on authority. "

-- George Bancroft

Is that not what I just said ?

Is that not what I just said ?

You have flunked,basic Civics.
What Bancroft was hinting at,was what Our Founders really
intended.That Government is BY the people.And for the people.
But people are the important thing.People are the backbone
of our existence.People really can manage quite well w/o
Government.

" Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers
of the people alone.The people themselves are it's only
safe depositories. "

-- Thomas Jefferson

" A popular Government without popular information or the means
of inquiring it,is but a prologue to a farce,or a tragedy,or perhaps
both. "

-- James Madison

Some interesting thoughts...

Dumber and dumber:
The rise of man and his dumbing down (http://www.moq.org/forum/RichardDouglas/richard.html)
By Richard Douglas

Our current modes of rationality are not moving society forward into a better world. They are taking it further and further away from that better world. Since the Renaissance these modes have worked. As long as the need for food, clothing and shelter is dominant they will continue to work. But now that for huge masses of people these needs no longer overwhelm everything else, the whole structure of reason, handed down to us from ancient times, is no longer adequate. It begins to be seen for what it really is - emotionally hollow, esthetically meaningless and spiritually empty.
- Robert M Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motocycle Maintenance


There is a fatal flaw in the intellectual foundations of our society, a fault which is only truly revealing itself now, in the late twentieth century. We know its effects as "dumbing down". This is a world which is losing faith in rationality, in the official answers given by society's intellectual establishment. Belief in aliens, the powers of Nostradamus, codes in the Bible, conspiracy theories of all sorts; all these testify to a growing irrationality. Or rather, what they are signs of is an increasing difficulty in separating fantasy from reality.

This is a world which has grown alienated from ideas, in which people are losing the capacity to truly believe in anything. Values have become almost entirely relativised, convictions reduced to mere opinions. Society is now so dominated by official experts that people have become divorced from their own abilities to make sense of the world, to determine for themselves what they really think. All the official beliefs of society, all the things we regard as true, are now so remote and impersonalised we find it very hard to truly identify with them. Meanwhile, our personal lives become utterly personal and subjective, and we all but lose the wherewithal to govern these with our beliefs, to structure our lives, to achieve any real certainty in the personal choices we make. Isolated from principles, we live our lives in an increasingly banal fantasy land in which our natural priorities are inverted. The serious becomes trivial, and the trivial, serious; news turns into entertainment, and entertainment, news.

Why should this be, after centuries of progress? Why should society be getting dumber now, just when more people are receiving more education than ever before, when society is technologically more powerful than it has ever been? It doesn't make sense. We have all been brought up with the idea that things should be getting better and better, society more and more powerful. So what is going wrong?

...

We become used to not applying ourselves in our daily lives. Just a few decades ago, everyday life presented a continual series of little challenges. Simply to have to make up a fire every morning taught one mental discipline and gave weight to the quotidian, creating a conduit between the world within the mind and that without. Such a thing was a small job and yet one knew it was important, both because of the acute physical discomfort one might experience before a fire was lit, and because of the potential to burn the house down if one did not do it right. Tasks like this are intellectual, although we would not generally recognise them by that name. They require the active use of the mind, the application of one's mental resources in order to solve a problem. To go through life meeting such challenges is to get a solid grounding in the way of the world, to understand that life is full of natural checks and balances, that everything costs, that hard work and concentration are required for success in anything. It is, simply, to keep one's mind sharp; not necessarily intellectual, in the sense we would normally understand, but nonetheless keen.

...

What this means is that society becomes increasingly subject to a bureaucracy of enlightenment which is itself becoming increasingly inefficient. The influence of academe is growing in inverse proportion to its own intellectual integrity. Within the university, studies are becoming so specialised that it is all but impossible for anyone to set their work in a wider context and make some sense of it. As for drawing some moral from one's studies - what might be thought the purpose of education - this is a very old-fashioned idea, fit only for an intellectual museum, laughable in the present day.

...

Accordingly, we become lost, bereft of guidance, unsure what to believe, what to do. We spend our lives in a dreamworld, desperately searching for something tangible, something to truly believe in, but capable only of voyaging deeper into fantasy, into a wholly subjective existence. Our withdrawal from the wider world, both the physical world around us and the world of ideas, leaves us perpetually unsatisfied, perpetually seeking a firm sense of place in the world and a genuine communion with what lies outside of us. So long as we do not challenge the ideal of objective knowledge, this is the state in which we will remain.


******************

Anybody have any original thoughts on this subject?

So, like is this not what being "politically correct" is all about?

We aren't allowed to voice our opinions, belief's, etc. for fear of offending someone.

Murders have more rights then the VICTIMS.

Illegal Aliens have more rights then the NATIONALS.

Gays have more rights then the HETROSEXUALS's.

We now get TAXED by Town, State, and Federal and get nothing for our taxes dollars from any of them. So much for taxation w/out representation... 50% vote for the idiots and 50% of us get screwed...

Public education is a joke but then all the jobs are overseas anyway so our kids can compete w/the illegals for who can pick the most grapes... for less then minimum wage.

I could go on but I don't think "man has risen"... but I do think society is being dumbed down big time as we become more "politically correct"...

Anybody have any original thoughts on this subject?
Other than the opinion that the originator of this thread makes an excellent example of its conclusion? Sure.

I think mass media is responsible for much of the blame, but not in the same way most people try to criticize the institution. The real fact is, Americans are more informed and aware now than any generation to precede it, due to the mass media. Where this goes wrong is that information itself does not confer all that much insight. To get that, you need to know an awful lot of background information so you can put all that glut into perspective. It's literally a full time job for people to get all that perspective, so much so that the news media has to hire more analysts now than ever before to keep up, and they get more and more air time at the expense of pure facts reporting. So really, even though Americans are better informed now, they suffer from a paralysis of analysis that either causes them to lose interest in current events or to simply subscribe to a popular viewpoint expressed by one of the many talking heads on television. The technology of information has vastly outpaced our ability to handle it all.

Other than the opinion that the originator of this thread makes an excellent example of its conclusion? Sure.
I wasn't going to point out that irony but, well, there it is. It was my first thought upon seeing the thread.
I think mass media is responsible for much of the blame, but not in the same way most people try to criticize the institution.
No? Read this article (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article1240458.ece), and I use the term loosely.

Other than the opinion that the originator of this thread makes an excellent example of its conclusion? Sure.

I think mass media is responsible for much of the blame, but not in the same way most people try to criticize the institution. The real fact is, Americans are more informed and aware now than any generation to precede it, due to the mass media. Where this goes wrong is that information itself does not confer all that much insight. To get that, you need to know an awful lot of background information so you can put all that glut into perspective. It's literally a full time job for people to get all that perspective, so much so that the news media has to hire more analysts now than ever before to keep up, and they get more and more air time at the expense of pure facts reporting. So really, even though Americans are better informed now, they suffer from a paralysis of analysis that either causes them to lose interest in current events or to simply subscribe to a popular viewpoint expressed by one of the many talking heads on television. The technology of information has vastly outpaced our ability to handle it all.

Um,I don't have that problem.I manage just fine.
Focus on One radical Liberal show like MSNBC and then one
fairly conservative and balanced cable outlet like FOX.
Read Drudge,and maybe some partricularly spot on pundits
like George Will or a Pat Buchanan,then some hacks like Joe Conason
and Jonathan Alter and all things are put into perspective.
Say the magic word,toss salt over the shoulder,ring a dinghy
a cow bell,and curl ones toes.
That's all it takes.But that works only on Thursday.Every other
Thursday,at that.And not when the sun don't shine...either.
Git it.?

Gays have more rights then the HETROSEXUALS's.


For example? Name one right that gays have that straights don't.

The right to be fabulous?

Dammit, it seems that threads are starting to mesh into each other into some unstoppable blob thread creature that threatens to consume the forum! Run!

The right to be fabulous?

Ok...aside from that one. ;)

For example? Name one right that gays have that straights don't.
a draft deferment.

Ok...aside from that one. ;)

The right to be a bitch,if yer a fellar.

For example? Name one right that gays have that straights don't.

For one... you cannot, not hire someone because they are "gay" and stupid but you can if they are normal and stupid.

I don't think you should have to hire anyone stupid no matter what their sexual preference or color is but the white, heto's get it all the time... just to meet "quotas".

Something is not right w/this...

For one... you cannot, not hire someone because they are "gay" and stupid but you can if they are normal and stupid.

I don't think you should have to hire anyone stupid no matter what their sexual preference or color is but the white, heto's get it all the time... just to meet "quotas".

Something is not right w/this...

So then,a Reverse Discrimination or Anti-White,Middle-age
heterosexual Affirmative Action has been implemented.?
Bravo ! That is ... Like Sooooooooooooooooooo... Fer sure.

That'd be awful, except there are no quotas...

For one... you cannot, not hire someone because they are "gay" and stupid but you can if they are normal and stupid.
Cite?

So then,a Reverse Discrimination or Anti-White,Middle-age
heterosexual Affirmative Action has been implemented.?
Bravo ! That is ... Like Sooooooooooooooooooo... Fer sure.

Yah, you are a Fool but I don't know if it is worth anything...

Yes, reverse discrimination happens every day in this country. White, middle class, etc. cannot get anything because of the discrimination laws protecting the whatever...

That is for sure. I live w/it every day as do my kids... we are white, middle class, and don't get crap when it comes to scholarhips, etc. BECAUSE we are white... middle class... etc.

I don't care anymore... I will not give to any charity group supporting whatever... they get that in my taxes...

Yes, Fool, I am sure... discrimination against the white middle class has far surpassed what I, and many others, are willing to pay... maybe we should go on the "dole/welfare" too? Then where would we would be?

That is for sure. I live w/it every day as do my kids... we are white, middle class, and don't get crap when it comes to scholarhips, etc. BECAUSE we are white... middle class... etc.
I'm white, middle class, male, and I have a scholarship that pays for roughly 80% of my tuition. If I had gone to a university in my home state of Florida, I could have had 100% tuition (if I had bothered with the community service requirements and paperwork). And I have a well-paying undergraduate summer internship at a well-known, DoE-run national laboratory. And I'm not even gay!

I'm white, middle class, male, and I have a scholarship that pays for roughly 80% of my tuition. If I had gone to a university in my home state of Florida, I could have had 100% tuition (if I had bothered with the community service requirements and paperwork). And I have a well-paying undergraduate summer internship at a well-known, DoE-run national laboratory. And I'm not even gay!

In order to qualify for a scholarship you'll need to show proof
of residency { Living at home with Parents } and what their
Income level is.Yer g.p.a. and entrance scores.
If yer parants make too much { Income } you'll be denied.
Scholarship award bonus points for stuff like low-income
and race and financial need.

In order to qualify for a scholarship you'll need to show proof
of residency { Living at home with Parents } and what their
Income level is.Yer g.p.a. and entrance scores.
If yer parants make too much { Income } you'll be denied.
Thank you, Captain Obvious.
Scholarship award bonus points for stuff like low-income
and race and financial need.
Some do, particularly need-based scholarships. Merit-based scholarships take income and race into account far less.

In order to qualify for a scholarship you'll need to show proof
of residency { Living at home with Parents } and what their
Income level is.Yer g.p.a. and entrance scores.
If yer parants make too much { Income } you'll be denied.
Scholarship award bonus points for stuff like low-income
and race and financial need.

That's right, being a single parent all three of my daughters qualified for FAFSA and had to also supplement with student loans. One graduated, and the twins will start their junior year in the fall.

That's right, being a single parent all three of my daughters qualified for FAFSA and had to also supplement with student loans. One graduated, and the twins will start their junior year in the fall.
What package did you get out of FAFSA? I need to remember to fill out that damn application this summer (my university wants me to get work study for my job this fall), and I need my dad's tax info because FAFSA says I'm a dependent even though the IRS doesn't. All I got out of them when I applied in 2006 were loans to cover the remaining 20% of my tuition, which I declined.

For one... you cannot, not hire someone because they are "gay" and stupid but you can if they are normal and stupid.

I don't think you should have to hire anyone stupid no matter what their sexual preference or color is but the white, heto's get it all the time... just to meet "quotas".

Something is not right w/this...

Do you recall ever being asked your sexual preference on a job application?

Do you recall ever seeing ads for employment in the newspaper, or online, seeking "gays"? And I don't mean in the personals section. :P

How do these employers find all these gays to fill the quotas?

I didn't get anything from FAFSA... my parents make too much, apparently.

Do you recall ever being asked your sexual preference on a job application?

Do you recall ever seeing ads for employment in the newspaper, or online, seeking "gays"? And I don't mean in the personals section. :P

How do these employers find all these gays to fill the quotas?

*****************************************
AH ! Yer starting ta see Gay stuff in yer soup,is all.
Give it a rest already.OK,you wanna see the next Nobel Prize
AND Pulitzer go to a Gay.
Why don't ya just say so,and we can all move on.

Ah. Nothing is more convincing than an argument based on a general feeling which contradicts factual evidence. Well I'm sold.

I fell upon this thread through google, searching a phrase I'd been thinking recently, and hadn't seen this site before now; but I wanted to drop a comment.

I agree with you SMW, things have gone awry in our industrialized world. Milestones in thought and rationality have become irrelevant to the new culture. I'm sure studies have been done in constant stimulation, and inundation of opinions without context, conclusion or anything else that accompanies a rational process of thought.

I'm not knowledgeable enough to say why this is happening, I think history books will have a better grasp of it after the next 100 years or so (assuming we're not still at war with Persian areas).

I'll approximate that imo it's the rise of the Republic again causing this. Democracy, the will of the people, and painful, earnest desire for the progression of our species seems to decline hand-in-hand. The rise of Authoritarian groups, and the permeation of that structure through every aspect of life reinforces it.

That, combined with the ability for anyone to say anything; no matter how incomplete, inconsistent, or incoherent with the Age of Communication upon us... also combined with the constant stimulation (I'm thinking of a rat being constantly poked and prodded with its desires without cease) and we have a lack of personal maturation on our hands.

I hope we don't need to hit rock bottom before we can sort ourselves out and begin to move forward again.

I'll approximate that imo it's the rise of the Republic again causing this.
I'm with pretty much all of your post except this. I don't think you have a sufficient grasp of the definition of "republic", as the United States is, and has been since the ratification of the Constitution, a republic. Unless you're making a Star Wars reference, in which case I retract my opinion.
Democracy, the will of the people, and painful, earnest desire for the progression of our species seems to decline hand-in-hand.
Pure democracy is a terrible way to run a government. Even the Greeks found a lot of it untenable.

Even the Greeks found a lot of it untenable.
Yay for human cattle-herding!

I'm with pretty much all of your post except this. I don't think you have a sufficient grasp of the definition of "republic", as the United States is, and has been since the ratification of the Constitution, a republic. Unless you're making a Star Wars reference, in which case I retract my opinion.

Pure democracy is a terrible way to run a government. Even the Greeks found a lot of it untenable.

True. I read up on the definition a bit more. My grasp is lacking in the area between a literal constitutional republic and what we have now... I'm not sure how I would describe the state of our representative democracy.

When reading up on statistics, the US seems very heavy in Judicial power and funding; while attaining more prosecutions per capita than any other country. I can't help but think we are in a comparative police state, without the excessive control to create a public outcry.

I tend to link the perception of public figures (police officers, civil "servants", CEOs, etc.) with whether I would describe them as using their position to be powerful or not. People tend to fear opposing someone in those positions if, as a whole, they are representing their own ends and egos.

To me, power and responsibility are different ways to perceive the same position. If you abuse your position, you are someone who desires power. If you make decisions mindful of what is the best way to represent people, you view your position as a responsibility.

I remember thinking, the first time Bush responded to his low ratings in polls with a "so, what?" attitude, "Isn't he supposed to be representing us? If the majority of us disagree with his decision, isn't he undermining our political system to ignore us?"

.... or just maybe I have an unhealthy fear of authority. :bike:

When reading up on statistics, the US seems very heavy in Judicial power and funding; while attaining more prosecutions per capita than any other country.
On the other hand, the United States has more legal protections in place for the accused than most other countries. Except, that is, when the DoJ wants to ignore them and ships people off to Guantanamo.

That is for sure. I live w/it every day as do my kids... we are white, middle class, and don't get crap when it comes to scholarhips, etc. BECAUSE we are white... middle class... etc.

I don't believe this one bit. Most of the jobs and scholarships in the US are still held by white people. And that's ok. I'm just not agreeing with your statement that white kids have to take the backseat while the non-white kids are getting all the scholarships and benefits. Its baloney and you know it.

I don't believe this one bit. Most of the jobs and scholarships in the US are still held by white people. And that's ok. I'm just not agreeing with your statement that white kids have to take the backseat while the non-white kids are getting all the scholarships and benefits. Its baloney and you know it.


My sister received alot of scholarships when she graduated high school. Some she won others she applied for. And she's the whitest white girl anyone could know. She's now a nurse in a major hospital.

If one lives in an area that is made up of mostly non whites,of course you're going to see them getting these. Schools in Detroit are mostly black so the scholarships there are going to be given to mostly black kids. To me it mainly depends on where you live and the predominant make up of that area.