International Community Praises Progress In Iraq (http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/international_community_praises_progress_in_iraq/)

The article doesn’t mention any praise for America specifically for making this progress in Iraq possible - though that doesn’t mean it wasn’t there - but even barring that who thought this day would ever come?
Certainly nobody who sides with the Democrat party and their mouthpieces in the media on this issue.
STOCKHOLM (AFP) (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080529/wl_afp/iraqswedenununrestmeet) - World leaders, including UN chief Ban Ki-moon and US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, on Thursday hailed Baghdad’s progress in combatting violence and stabilising Iraq.
A declaration adopted by 100 delegations at a Stockholm conference said the participants “recognised the important efforts made by the (Iraqi) government to improve security and public order and combat terrorism and sectarian violence across Iraq.”
It also acknowledged political and economic progress made, and said that “given the difficult context, these successes are all the more remarkable.”
In a speech earlier to the conference, Ban said Iraq was “stepping back from the abyss that we feared most,” adding that with international help the war-torn country could fulfill its “vision of becoming a free, secure, stable and prosperous nation.”
And who made all that possible? America. Specifically, the Bush administration.
The Democrats can accuse Bush of lying this country into an “illegal” and “immoral” war “for oil” all they want. They can accuse him of misguided foreign policy, and of lessening position in the middle east and the world.

But the truth is that the success in Iraq we’re seeing right now is because of President Bush. He sought to liberate that much-oppressed country in a region brimming with extremism and totalitarianism, and he did it despite widespread and wrong-headed international opposition.

Bush’s loudest critics in the international community - people such as the leaders of Canada, France and Germany - have been replaced by more America-friendly leaders, and now that the international community at-large seems willing to at least acknowledge success in Iraq it’s still hard to say that Bush’s decision to invade Iraq has been completely exonerated.
Hard not to say, for honest observers. People more concerned with partisan politics than sound foreign policy will undoubtedly think otherwise.

I think FT and dharma's brains just tried to shift without a clutch.

I will say that Iraq has settled down a lot of late, maybe the hard work the US Forces have done there are now bearing fruit, I hope so for the people of the country.

And who made all that possible? America. Specifically, the Bush administration.
The Democrats can accuse Bush of lying this country into an “illegal” and “immoral” war “for oil” all they want. They can accuse him of misguided foreign policy, and of lessening position in the middle east and the world.

But the truth is that the success in Iraq we’re seeing right now is because of President Bush. He sought to liberate that much-oppressed country in a region brimming with extremism and totalitarianism, and he did it despite widespread and wrong-headed international opposition.
Considering that Iraq could so easily have gone in the other direction, ie. towards total chaos, you can't really use the present situation as justification for the initial invasion.

But here's another bit of good news... the US death toll for May was only 19 -- the lowest of the entire war. The number of Iraqi civilians, soldiers and police killed is also down. Let's hope that this is a trend and not just one odd month.

I will say that Iraq has settled down a lot of late.........

Yeah. After you send in the war machine and kill off around a million of the populace, things tend to 'settle down' quite well.

Whoooowee! Lookit all the "progress".

I can only hope that all the other countries of the world are forever spared such a form of 'progress'.

That is correct FT, after.

The nitemare of invasion and everything that invasion brought upon the people of Iraq has to end for them sometime.

(http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/international_community_praises_progress_in_iraq/) And who made all that possible? America. Specifically, the Bush administration.

Yup. the Bush Administration are the ones who broke Iraq and created the gigantic mess of insurgency, sectarian violence, death squads and road-side bombs that have become a part of daily life in Iraq.

It's good that the Iraqi government is making an effort, but they are still being hampered by the Americans who still occupy their country and dictate the "reconstruction" (such as it is) out of the Pentagon.

We need to impliment a Marshall plan for Iraq and let the Iraqis rebuild their own country instead of importing labor from Shri Lanka just so Haliburton can make some extra money.

So we should install murderous dictators for the better of society?

So we should install murderous dictators for the better of society?
Ya dont think invading Iraq had anything to do with getten rid of Saddam because he was a murderous dictator surely.

"...6 days, 6 weeks; I doubt 6 months."

Why does the Bush administration deserve credit for accomplishing something that took at least 10 times longer than they expected? (hell, it's not even accomplished, just the situation has improved)

Would we applaud our kids for bringing home Cs on a report card when we expected As?

History will no doubt lie when it comes to Bush.
The President who allowed AQ to slip away.

All those in favour of returning iraq to it's pre-2003 status as a dictatorship, supporting terrorism/ists, performing genocide on it's own population, restricting human rights on it's own citizens, impoverishing it's citizenry, line up on the left.

All those in favour of returning iraq to it's pre-2003 status as a dictatorship, ........


That would be --according to the polling that's been done-- around 70-80% of the Iraqis themselves.

But hey, what do they know compared to your vast knowledge of what's going on in their country..........right? All they do is live there.

And yes, I would join the vast majority of Iraqis in --if it were possible-- returning Iraq to what it was pre-2003. I also would vote for we American taxpayers having our 2 trillion dollars returned, and the people who lied us into this war being tried for treason.

Why does the Bush administration deserve credit for accomplishing something that took at least 10 times longer than they expected?
And Montgomery said that after Operation Market Garden the troops would be home by Christmas.
It's war, CBL.

If it took 1/10th the predicted time frame, the same people would be criticizing the effort.


No matter what happens in Iraq from now on, new parameters of failure will be invented.
Remember the article someone posted saying how it's bad that Al Qaeda is being diminished, because the disorganized bands of terrorists are leaderless?
Give me a break.

All those in favour of returning iraq to it's pre-2003 status as a dictatorship, supporting terrorism/ists, performing genocide on it's own population, restricting human rights on it's own citizens, impoverishing it's citizenry, line up on the left.

Those on the right have already achieved 4 out of 5 of those things.

It's war, CBL.

No Brooks, it's an OCCUPATION.

We WON the "war" in Iraq years ago.

you know, an occupation... like they had in Germany and Japan AFTER the war ended, except in those cases we actually stopped waging war when the war ended.

Those on the right have already achieved 4 out of 5 of those things.

Add this to the long list of things you've been wrong on.

And Montgomery said that after Operation Market Garden the troops would be home by Christmas.
It's war, CBL.

If it took 1/10th the predicted time frame, the same people would be criticizing the effort.


No matter what happens in Iraq from now on, new parameters of failure will be invented.
Remember the article someone posted saying how it's bad that Al Qaeda is being diminished, because the disorganized bands of terrorists are leaderless?
Give me a break.

To those opposed to the war, nothing ever good will come from iraq. It could turn into the shining city on the hill for the ME and the opposed crowd will whine about it.

To those opposed to the war, nothing ever good will come from iraq.
Is that the new benchmark you are clinging to today? The desperate hope that something good will come out of Iraq, someday.


It could turn into the shining city on the hill for the ME and the opposed crowd will whine about it.
Yeah, cause that looks to be really likely, doesn't it?

Add that to the long list of things you have been wrong about.

:rolleyes:

Is that the new benchmark you are clinging to today?
On the subject of benchmarks, you guys used to throw American casualties out there as proof of something.

May 2008 has had the lowest number of American casualties since the invasion.

Do you still think casualties means anything?

Its encourageing to see that people dying of violent death are down as of late, lets be honest, when your dead your dead.

And Montgomery said that after Operation Market Garden the troops would be home by Christmas.
It's war, CBL.

If it took 1/10th the predicted time frame, the same people would be criticizing the effort.

I sure as hell wouldn't. If we got in and out like Rumsfeld predicted, it'd be hard to criticize the invasion even without WMDs as we took Saddam out of power without many casualties and without spending a ton of money. Remember, before the war we were being told that it would pay for itself. What happened to that? The reason I'm angry is that the Bush administration painted this lovely picture to sell the American public on the war that wasn't based in reality.


No matter what happens in Iraq from now on, new parameters of failure will be invented.
Remember the article someone posted saying how it's bad that Al Qaeda is being diminished, because the disorganized bands of terrorists are leaderless?
Give me a break.

That was a pretty silly article, but this goes both ways. How many times has gmsisko posted an article about how Saddam smuggled his WMDs out of Iraq into Syria right before the invasion?

The sad thing is people like Dhrama have painted themsevles into a corner when it comes to iraq. They have to hope for defeat to save any face. They have everything invested in us being wrong, in Bush being wrong to honestly hope for a good outcome in Iraq. Their entire political lives are tied to us doing poorly in Iraq. Granted, Mcains political life is tied to us doing well.
Yet still we debate on what patriotism is :rolleyes: As is having to hope we fail in our endeavors so as to win political points is really patriotic, which in a sense is what the democrats are doing. If Iraq make s a big turn around and violence drops and things start rolling on towards the future, that is the worst case scenario for Obama and the Dems, sad but true. They have painted themselves into a corner.

You're exactly right, Trav.

I find it rather sad that people try scoring political points out of the disaster that is Iraq.

As has been said, some Democrats will prefer failure there,
wheras some Republicans will view success as being worth every dollar spent and every life lost.

The sad reality is that Iraq never was part of the war on terror, it was some side issue that took over the whole revenge mood sweeping America at the time, as a result, around 1 million lives have been lost, trillions of dollars have been wasted, and AQ have slipped away.

Yup. the Bush Administration are the ones who broke Iraq and created the gigantic mess of insurgency, sectarian violence, death squads and road-side bombs that have become a part of daily life in Iraq..
Because we all know it was such a paradise before hand right. After all there couldnt be sectarian violence before because one of the three main factions ruled the other two with an iron fist. Not sure where you been,but Death squads have been in iraq long before we landed. This 'gigantic mess of insurgency' just happens to be the direct result of the newly liberated iraq.




It's good that the Iraqi government is making an effort, .. Ummm,does decades under a tyrant dictatorship ring a bell? This 'iraqi government 'only exisits because of the US armed forces.



We need to impliment a Marshall plan for Iraq and let the Iraqis rebuild their own country instead of importing labor from Shri Lanka just so Haliburton can make some extra money. This I do agree with.

most democrats WANT failure... they will call it a shitstorm just to advance their agenda.

most republicans say it's going well, when that is questionable.

But hey, if the people want to get murdered, controlled, and "get fascist".. i say let em have it. Unfortunately, there is the concern of just turning our backs and having another assault on our soil... who knows what is right, o wait, i forgot I'm at allforums.

Would we applaud our kids for bringing home Cs on a report card when we expected As?

thats apples and oranges dude... But if my kid bringing home C's translated into a whole country of people starting to live a life without fear,but with hope.... I say bring me all the Cs you can.

when we expected As??

well things are not always black and white. There is alot of gray area in things. This situation has improved because of the US military hands down. That cannot be disputed. We can argue about why went,if we should of went,the info on why went went ect...... but no one with a lick of sense can dispute,that the progress Iraq is seeing is the direct result of the US presence. (of course we can argue the amount of progress,ect..)

The sad thing is people like Dhrama have painted themsevles into a corner when it comes to iraq. They have to hope for defeat to save any face. They have everything invested in us being wrong, in Bush being wrong to honestly hope for a good outcome in Iraq. Their entire political lives are tied to us doing poorly in Iraq. Granted, Mcains political life is tied to us doing well.
Yet still we debate on what patriotism is :rolleyes: As is having to hope we fail in our endeavors so as to win political points is really patriotic, which in a sense is what the democrats are doing. If Iraq make s a big turn around and violence drops and things start rolling on towards the future, that is the worst case scenario for Obama and the Dems, sad but true. They have painted themselves into a corner.

How is this different from what the GOP has done? They've painted themselves into a corner where we have to succeed in Iraq. The only difference is things are looking better in Iraq so the tide is turning in favor of the GOP.

I sure as hell wouldn't.
I take you at your word and deem you to be a noble exception.

I take you at your word and deem you to be a noble exception.

It'd be hard to be against the war if it went as advertised, even with the lack of WMDs. Minimal casualties, getting rid of Saddam, more oil...

It (Iraq) could turn into the shining city on the hill for the ME and the opposed crowd will whine about it.

Okay, you pathetic tool.........whenever that happens --that **Shining City on the Hill** bullshit-- please feel free to get back to me.

Until then, I am not inclined to listen to any rightwing fantasies about how *wonderful* things are over there.

most democrats WANT failure...

Oh, what bullshit.

They did not "want" it.

It is simply what they've been handed by the uber-Conservative warmongers that you and your ilk support.

They did not "want" it.


no, they demand it.

no, they demand it.

Source? Cite?

Anything........anything...................ANY THING?

No? I thought not.

Source? Cite?

Anything........anything...................ANY THING?

No? I thought not.
we're still waiting for you irrefutable proof of GW's war crimes.

if you want proof of my opinions, you're going to have to take my word for it.

if you want proof of my opinions, you're going to have to take my word for it.

Yeah.

That's what i thought.

(btw,.......I did not ask you for irrefutable proof. I simply asked you for anything in the way of a source or a cite you might be able to provide. The fact that you have nothing speaks volumes. Now run along and play. There are adults talking here.)

Is that the new benchmark you are clinging to today? The desperate hope that something good will come out of Iraq, someday.

Not clinging to anything. Merely pointing out that it doesn't/wouldn't matter what happens in iraq, you'll complain.


Yeah, cause that looks to be really likely, doesn't it?

Add that to the long list of things you have been wrong about.

:rolleyes:

The final chapter on iraq isn't even in sight yet, can't pronounce on history from the present.

That would be --according to the polling that's been done-- around 70-80% of the Iraqis themselves.

But hey, what do they know compared to your vast knowledge of what's going on in their country..........right? All they do is live there.

And yes, I would join the vast majority of Iraqis in --if it were possible-- returning Iraq to what it was pre-2003. I also would vote for we American taxpayers having our 2 trillion dollars returned, and the people who lied us into this war being tried for treason.

Your poll is only four years out of date.:rolleyes: Running as fast u can isn't good enough.

Not clinging to anything.

Yeah, keep telling yourself that.


Merely pointing out that it doesn't/wouldn't matter what happens in iraq, you'll complain.

Yet another item to add to the long list of things you are wrong about.



The final chapter on iraq isn't even in sight yet, can't pronounce on history from the present.

We certainly can discuss proabilities. How probable do you think it is that Iraq will turn into a "shining city on the hill for the ME" during our lifetimes?
How many American lives is that distant, unlikely goal worth to you?

.

On the subject of benchmarks, you guys used to throw American casualties out there as proof of something.

Casualties may not mean anything to you, but to some of us an American casualty means that someone's son, daughter, husband, wife or friend has died.



Do you still think casualties means anything?

Read and re-read my paragraph above until it sinks in.

.

Casualties may not mean anything to you, but to some of us an American casualty means that someone's son, daughter, husband, wife or friend has died.
Nice dramatic try.
I said "On the subject of benchmarks, you guys used to throw American casualties out there as proof of something.
May 2008 has had the lowest number of American casualties since the invasion.
Do you still think casualties means anything?"

This was a question thrown out to check on the left's consistency.

I am not diminishing the casualties in any way.

I was addressing this to those who have looked at them as politically useful statistics.

Nice attempt to turn this around, amateur.

This was a question thrown out to check on the left's consistency.

Well, I have news for you: Your partisan demagoguery failed. All you managed to do was reveal your own hypocrisy and lack of regard for the troops.

Now you are whining because you got called out on it.


I am not diminishing the casualties in any way.

You are the one who said casualties don't mean anything.

Cry me a river, you hack.

Cry me a river, you hack.

That's not necessary, or desirable, Dharma.

That's not necessary, or desirable, Dharma.

Neither was calling me an ameteur or the constant use of "dhrama", but you never say anything about those.

Neither was calling me an ameteur or the constant use of "dhrama", but you never say anything about those.

You're right, but I also didn't mention your constant use of "reichwinger". Grow up.

Yet another item to add to the long list of things you are wrong about.

Really. What would cause you to acknowledge that iraq is a success?




We certainly can discuss proabilities. How probable do you think it is that Iraq will turn into a "shining city on the hill for the ME" during our lifetimes?
How many American lives is that distant, unlikely goal worth to you?

Shining city scenario about 10%-15%. A responsible member of the connected world, sharing simiar values and goals 90%. And it will happen in my lifetime (and i'm considerably older than you).

Really. What would cause you to acknowledge that iraq is a success?

It would have been a success if they had actually found WMDs that could threaten the U.S.

Now the best we can hope for is to minimize the damage.




Shining city scenario about 10%-15%. A responsible member of the connected world, sharing simiar values and goals 90%. And it will happen in my lifetime (and i'm considerably older than you).

What evidence do you have that this transformation into the shining city on the hill is taking place so quickly it will happen in the short time you have left on this earth?

It would have been a success if they had actually found WMDs that could threaten the U.S.

Now the best we can hope for is to minimize the damage.

Given that is in the past then your current statement puts the lie to your earlier contention that you could view iraq favourably. Liar or fool?





What evidence do you have that this transformation into the shining city on the hill is taking place so quickly it will happen in the short time you have left on this earth?

I only gave that scenario a 10%-15% chance. The one i gave a 90% chance to would happen in my lifetime.

Source? Cite?

Anything........anything...................ANY THING?

No? I thought not.

Has he ever?

Of course not.

Given that is in the past then your current statement puts the lie to your earlier contention that you could view iraq favourably.

There is a world of difference between "favorably" and "success". Don't blame me because you chose to word your questions poorly.


I only gave that scenario a 10%-15% chance. The one i gave a 90% chance to would happen in my lifetime.

So we agree that it isn't very likely.

.

1. Well, I have news for you: Your partisan demagoguery failed.
2. All you managed to do was reveal your own hypocrisy and lack of regard for the troops.
3. Now you are whining because you got called out on it.
4. You are the one who said casualties don't mean anything.
1. In the sense that you refuse to respond, yes I failed.

2. Show me where I have done that.

3. I've been called on worse by better.

4. Show me where I have done that.

Neither was calling me an ameteur or the constant use of "dhrama", but you never say anything about those.
Waaah, waaah.

Hey Drama, you say much worse to others.
But they don't normally whine like that.

I know.
Have you had enough yet, Vile? This kid's unbelievable.

How is this different from what the GOP has done? They've painted themselves into a corner where we have to succeed in Iraq. The only difference is things are looking better in Iraq so the tide is turning in favor of the GOP.\


How is it different? How about you don't have to hope we lose a fucking war to get what you want?

Waaah, waaah.

how mature. :rolleyes:


Hey Drama, you say much worse to others.

I give no worse than I recieve, you whiner.

How about you don't have to hope we lose a fucking war to get what you want?

We already won the war in Iraq years ago.

Thats where that whole argument completely falls apart.

Show me where I have done that.

ok

On the subject of benchmarks, you guys used to throw American casualties out there as proof of something.

We already won the war in Iraq years ago.


oh? so the mission was accomplished?:slap:

I know.

Dharma, I've tried treating you like an adult, but I can see that the effort was wasted on you. If I were your parent I'd send you to bed without your supper, but since I'm just a mod, I have limited options.

You have until 1:00 PM CST today to delete the post I quoted and apologize for it, or I will give you some time off. Your choice.

We already won the war in Iraq years ago.

Thats where that whole argument completely falls apart.

Maybe in your world the war is over, but to the guys over there going on patrol and getting shot at I assure you it is not

You have until 1:00 PM CST today to delete the post I quoted and apologize for it, or I will give you some time off. Your choice.

What post would that be?

Ban him.

What post would that be?

As I said, the post I quoted...if that's not clear enough, this one:

http://www.allforums.net/showpost.php?p=487271&postcount=48

He's intentionally playing games with you, and you know it.

As I said, the post I quoted...if that's not clear enough, this one:

http://www.allforums.net/showpost.php?p=487271&postcount=48

Ok, I apologize.

I have no permissions to delete a post.
You, as a mod, will have to do that.

He's intentionally playing games with you, and you know it.

Perhaps...if he is, I care not, he still has til 1:00.

Perhaps...if he is, I care not, he still has til 1:00.

If you want me to delete a post, then you need to make me a mod.

Ok, I apologize.

I have no permissions to delete a post.
You, as a mod, will have to do that.

Fine. Please do us all a favor and give the "partisan hack" and "reichwing" comments a rest, ok?

u can delete one of your own posts.

Fine. Please do us all a favor and give the "partisan hack" and "reichwing" comments a rest, ok?

Right and I am sure you will be jumping all over those who continually throw far worse insults at me, right?

I won't hold my breath.

u can delete one of your own posts.

how?

Brooks: "On the subject of benchmarks, you guys used to throw American casualties out there as proof of something."

That's it? That's your big trump card?
THAT'S the proof of my "lack of regard for the troops"?


Very sad.

how?

Go to edit, then click on advanced, then at the top there is a bubble to check to delete the post. It has to be your own of course.

What I find sad here is that when the moderator was talking to a poster regards his style of posting, the wolves were circling.

They really do need a colosseum in the new Rome.

how?
what the heck did you do now?:confused:

Brooks: "On the subject of benchmarks, you guys used to throw American casualties out there as proof of something."

That's it?

Yeah, its pretty clear.


THAT'S the proof of my "lack of regard for the troops"?

You are denegrating those who care about American casualties.

It's pretty clear.
.

what the heck did you do now?:confused:

I called Brooks a "hack" (which is something I have been called dozens of times with never a word uttered by the mods in complaint before)

Question: What does 'hack' mean ?

I called Brooks a "hack" (which is something I have been called dozens of times with never a word uttered by the mods in complaint before)
oh...makes me feel better about all the times i've backspaced when i was going to call you one.:D

Question: What does 'hack' mean ?

It is like a quick chopping motion.

oh...makes me feel better about all the times i've backspaced when i was going to call you one.:D

It appears the moderator "outrage" all depends on who is being called the name, not the name being used.

Question: What does 'hack' mean ?
Main Entry: 3hack
Function: noun
Etymology: short for hackney
Date: 1672
1 a: hackney b (1): taxicab (2): cabdriver
2 a (1): a horse let out for common hire (2): a horse used in all kinds of work b: a horse worn out in service : jade c: a light easy saddle horse; especially : a three-gaited saddle horse d: a ride on a horse
3 a: a person who works solely for mercenary reasons : hireling <party hacks> b: a writer who works on order; also : a writer who aims solely for commercial success c: hacker 2

it's not the nicest thing to say, but i've been called worse.

Hmmmmmm, its not a term Ive came across before, apart from here.

it's not the nicest thing to say, but i've been called worse.

Same here.

It is something I have been called dozens of times on here and it has never been a big deal before, especially to the moderators.

What I find sad here is that when the moderator was talking to a poster regards his style of posting, the wolves were circling.
Firstly, it's an open forum, and secondly, the kids an asshole. He's finally being called out on his go nowhere debating tactics by our most levelheaded mod, and you know what....it's about goddamned time. He’s a waste of space here. JMO.

I called Brooks a "hack" (which is something I have been called dozens of times with never a word uttered by the mods in complaint before)

As I've said to you before Dharma, it's not what you say, it's how often you say it. Give it a rest.

Firstly, it's an open forum, and secondly, the kids an asshole. He's finally being called out on his go nowhere debating tactics by our most levelheaded mod, and you know what....it's about goddamned time. He’s a waste of space here. JMO.
Yes its an open forum, tho unsavoury conduct was taking place.

As I've said to you before Dharma, it's not what you say, it's how often you say it.

1. Your complaint here was with one particular post. The one you demanded I delete and apologize for.
2. If you are going to judge by volume I have been called a "hack" far more often than I have used it to describe someone else.

While I'm on the subject of overused terms, I think I've seen enough of "dhrama" as well. Take note, Prae.

Yes its an open forum, tho unsavoury conduct was taking place.

It is not really an open forum.

While I'm on the subject of overused terms, I think I've seen enough of "dhrama" as well. Take note, Prae.
Great! I never say it (and that's being totally honest)! :D

1. Your complaint here was with one particular post. The one you demanded I delete and apologize for.

Yes it was.


2. If you are going to judge by volume I have been called a "hack" far more often than I have used it to describe someone else.

That's probably true, but it wasn't all done by one poster. At any rate, I hope EVERYONE takes the hint.

That's probably true,

It is true and as I recall when I brought it up to you, your response was that I should "lighten up".

It is not really an open forum.
this coming from the lapdog of the book burners?:confused:

this coming from the lapdog of the book burners?:confused:

What is that supposed to mean?

If "hack" is unacceptable, why would "lapdog" be?

If "hack" is unacceptable, why would "lapdog" be?
IT'S NEW!:thumbs:

IT'S NEW!:thumbs:

Way to help out, Mike. I really appreciate it.

/sarcasm

Way to help out, Mike. I really appreciate it.

/sarcasm
it is an improvement over what i backspaced (http://www.devotedfansnetwork.com/forums/images/smilies/(angel).gif).

oh? so the mission was accomplished?:slap:


Good one.