Former US President Jimmy Carter says Israel has 150 nuclear weapons, something the Jewish state has never acknowledged.

Carter was at the Hay on Wye literary Festival, made the comment while discussing Irans nuclear program.

Israel has maintained a policy of what it calls nuclear ambiguity, neither confirming nor denying it has a nuclear arsenal.

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2008/05/26/carter-nuclear.html

Israel has 150 nuclear weapons

And the typical Conservative response would be.................

"Israel has 150 nukes? So what. Good."

"N. Korea has around 12 nukes. Aiiieeeee!!! Surely the end of the world is at hand!!!"

And the typical Conservative response would be.................

"Israel has 150 nukes? So what. Good."

"N. Korea has around 12 nukes. Aiiieeeee!!! Surely the end of the world is at hand!!!"
which do you think is more likely to use them against us or our allies, or to just sell them outright?

Well we don't know for sure, but FT calls it fact because he wants it to be so.

And I trust Israel with nukes more than N. Korea... I think anyone with common sense would.

which do you think is more likely to use them against us or our allies, or to just sell them outright?

:rolleyes:

Asking which of the two --N Korea or Israel-- is 'more likely' to use them against us is so preposterous a question as to not deserve an answer, but I'll give it to you anyway.


N. Korea would, quite naturally, be "more likely" to use them against a foreign power that is extremely threatening to them (the US) than Israel is to use them against the U.S..

The U.S. only gives Israel about 4 billion a year in foreign aid. They will never kill that golden goose.

Now........who do you think is fundamentalist enough (iow, insane enough) and thus more likely by far to actually use a nuclear device against some nation they view as a threat?

I'd say Israel, by a factor of 10.

:rolleyes:

Asking which of the two --N Korea or Israel-- is 'more likely' to use them against us is so preposterous a question as to not deserve an answer, but I'll give it to you anyway.


N. Korea would, quite naturally, be "more likely" to use them against a foreign power that is extremely threatening to them (the US) than Israel is to use them against the U.S..

The U.S. only gives Israel about 4 billion a year in foreign aid. They will never kill that golden goose.

Now........who do you think is fundamentalist enough (iow, insane enough) and thus more likely by far to actually use a nuclear device against some nation they view as a threat?

I'd say Israel, by a factor of 10.

Israel has had them since before i was born, and they haven't used them yet. Arab aggression is more bark than bite. the only threat we pose to North Korea is stopping them from over running the South-again.

Why would Jimmy Carter disclose something that sounds like top secret information about Israel to the public?

What kind of president would do that?

Why would Jimmy Carter disclose something that sounds like top secret information about Israel to the public?

What kind of president would do that?

He's not talking about US top secrets.

I see once again double standards coming into play here.
Israel has become an aggressor rather than a victum in the last 20 years, invading and destroying Lebanon, encircleing Gaza, building settlements on the West Bank.

It seems immpossible for them to have nuclear capacity without Washingtons knowledge and approval.

He's not talking about US top secrets.

Oh, that makes a big difference!

Oh, that makes a big difference!

Yes, it does actually.

Let us not forget that Israel only acquired nukes because they stole technology from us through espionage. (https://ssl.mci.com/http/www.wakeupfromyourslumber.com/node/4817)

.

Israel has become an aggressor rather than a victum in the last 20 years, invading and destroying Lebanon, encircling Gaza, building settlements on the West Bank.

And THAT sir, is the distinction that the rightwingers here and in the rest of the country will seemingly never understand.

Or, at least they will never admit to understanding it.

Yes, it does actually.

You think it's okay to spout off how many weapons your allies have to the AP? Are you retarded?

Originally Posted by paulc
Israel has become an aggressor rather than a victum in the last 20 years, invading and destroying Lebanon, encircling Gaza, building settlements on the West Bank.


And THAT sir, is the distinction that the rightwingers here and in the rest of the country will seemingly never understand.

Or, at least they will never admit to understanding it.

God, some of these posts on here are beyond stupid. What do you think we would do to Mexico City if the Mexicans started launching rockets and killing our citizens on a daily basis?

God, some of these posts on here are beyond stupid. What do you think we would do to Mexico City if the Mexicans started launching rockets and killing our citizens on a daily basis?

We'd vote in a president who would go have a meeting with the president of Mexico.

You think it's okay to spout off how many weapons your allies have to the AP?

Yes. It is not a big secret. (https://ssl.mci.com/http/nobelprize.org/educational_games/peace/nuclear_weapons/readmore.html)
Neither is the number of nukes we posess.
The point is that Israel posessess' deterrent capability of their own and don't need us to start a third war to protect them, as some neocon morons are trying to claim.


God, some of these posts on here are beyond stupid. What do you think we would do to Mexico City if the Mexicans started launching rockets and killing our citizens on a daily basis?

In order for your analogy to be accurate you would have to include that they were launching the rockets in response to our annexing large swaths of their land for American "settlements".

Let us not forget that Israel only acquired nukes because they stole technology from us through espionage. (https://ssl.mci.com/http/www.wakeupfromyourslumber.com/node/4817)

.
sorry-no. we gave them to them.

Yes. It is not a big secret. (https://ssl.mci.com/http/nobelprize.org/educational_games/peace/nuclear_weapons/readmore.html)
Neither is the number of nukes we posess.
The point is that Israel posessess' deterrent capability of their own and don't need us to start a third war to protect them, as some neocon morons are trying to claim.
it's worked so far.


In order for your analogy to be accurate you would have to include that they were launching the rockets in response to our annexing large swaths of their land for American "settlements".
you my not have been paying attention, but they're still kinda pissed about the land they lost after the Mexican-American War when they got their asses summarily kicked after murdering American troops north of the Rio Grande.

sorry-no. we gave them to them.

Sorry-no. The Nixon papers which were declassified recently revealed that they stole nuclear technology from us.

you my not have been paying attention, but they're still kinda pissed ...

Really? Who is pissed exactly?
The President of Mexico certainly doesn't seem pissed.
None of the citizens of Mexico I have met when I have traveled there aren't pissed at us.

Who do you believe is still pissed?

We'd vote in a president who would go have a meeting with the president of Mexico.
LOL!

What do you think we would do to Mexico City if the Mexicans started launching rockets and killing our citizens on a daily basis?

Ahhhh.

I guess you mean like when one nation treats another like the Israelis treat the Palestinians.

For those posting here who are seemingly *beyond stupid*, and who have not been keeping score, here are the deaths totals for each side;

4,789 Palestinians have been killed since September 29, 2000.

1,053 Israelis have been killed since September 29, 2000.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/deaths.html#source

(The numbers also do not include the sizable number of Palestinians who died as a result of inability to reach medical care due to Israeli road closures, curfews, etc. The figure for Palestinian deaths is extremely conservative, since it is difficult for B'Tselem to report on deaths in the Palestinian territories. The Palestine Red Crescent Society, internationally respected for its statistical rigor, reports significantly higher numbers of Palestinian deaths.)

So whoever dies more is right?

I thought whoever died more WON a war... I guess america has no business existing, with all those deaths to british soldiers... and the confederacy was right...

Really? Who is pissed exactly?
The President of Mexico certainly doesn't seem pissed.
None of the citizens of Mexico I have met when I have traveled there aren't pissed at us.

Who do you believe is still pissed?
you've never heard of MEChA (http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=13863)?

MEChA and the La Raza movement teach that Colorado, California, Arizona, Texas, Utah, New Mexico, Oregon and parts of Washington State make up an area known as "Aztlan" -- a fictional ancestral homeland of the Aztecs before Europeans arrived in North America. As such, it belongs to the followers of MEChA. These are all areas America should surrender to "La Raza" once enough immigrants, legal or illegal, enter to claim a majority, as in Los Angeles. The current borders of the United States will simply be extinguished.

This plan is what is referred to as the "Reconquista" or reconquest, of the Western U.S.

Ahhhh.

I guess you mean like when one nation treats another like the Israelis treat the Palestinians.

For those posting here who are seemingly *beyond stupid*, and who have not been keeping score, here are the deaths totals for each side;

4,789 Palestinians have been killed since September 29, 2000.

1,053 Israelis have been killed since September 29, 2000.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/deaths.html#source

(The numbers also do not include the sizable number of Palestinians who died as a result of inability to reach medical care due to Israeli road closures, curfews, etc. The figure for Palestinian deaths is extremely conservative, since it is difficult for B'Tselem to report on deaths in the Palestinian territories. The Palestine Red Crescent Society, internationally respected for its statistical rigor, reports significantly higher numbers of Palestinian deaths.)
gee, if those Arabs would stop throwing unguided missiles at civilians, there would be nearly 6,000 less ppl dead!

gee, if those Arabs would stop throwing unguided missiles at civilians, there would be nearly 6,000 less ppl dead!

No doubt at least 5500 of these people wouldnt have been involved in firing rockets, like the Palestinian kids going to school or the Israeli mother cooking dinner.

you've never heard of MEChA (http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=13863)?

Nope, never heard of them, but they don't sound pissed.
They sound very methodical.

So whoever dies more is right?

I thought whoever died more WON a war...

No. I am trying to communicate to Karankawa that it is ridiculous to talk about the Palestinians as if they are inflicting a large amount of damage to Israel, when the numbers demonstrate that it is Israel who is inflicting FAR more damage to the nearly defenseless Palestinians.

But...at least you're cognizant that Israel is waging a war against the Palestinians.

That's a start.

____________________

Americans, who claim to be the freest people in the world, whose beliefs are purportedly rooted in "freedom and democracy", are sending billions of U.S. taxdollars overseas every year to aid a violent racist entity in the Middle East that is being built upon usurped land.

They are all "at war" over there, and have been for centuries. Unfortunately, humans don't always follow their "love thy enemy" message that their religion entails. Am I better than any of them? no, nobody is. On a religious sense, I'm no better than any Al Queda Terrorist... although they have caused us pain and horror, we should show them love, not threats and bombs. But politics would never allow that.. the whole "separation of church and state" thing.

No doubt at least 5500 of these people wouldnt have been involved in firing rockets, like the Palestinian kids going to school or the Israeli mother cooking dinner.
when you use non-combatants for human shields, there's an increase in collateral damage.

No. I am trying to communicate to Karankawa that it is ridiculous to talk about the Palestinians as if they are inflicting a large amount of damage to Israel, when the numbers demonstrate that it is Israel who is inflicting FAR more damage to the nearly defenseless Palestinians.

But...at least you're cognizant that Israel is waging a war against the Palestinians.

That's a start.

____________________

Americans, who claim to be the freest people in the world, whose beliefs are purportedly rooted in "freedom and democracy", are sending billions of U.S. taxdollars overseas every year to aid a violent racist entity in the Middle East that is being built upon usurped land.

it's a defensive war, and it's not against the Arabs, it's against Hamas & Hezbollah.

Unfortunately, humans don't always follow their "love thy enemy" message that their religion entails. Am I better than any of them? no,....

I have no doubt that's true. As a religionist, you probably aren't any better than any of them.

But I for one am better than that; I am 'better' in the sense that I am more human, more ethical and more rational than any religionist on earth who would go out and wage war against, and kill his fellow man because that other man worships a different invisible supernatural entity than the one he has chosen to worship.

On a religious sense, I'm no better than any Al Queda Terrorist...

Far be it from me to disagree.

I have often said that the terrorists who flew the planes into the towers were little different than the rest of the superstitionists on the planet, in that they did what they did for religious reasons.......the same sort of religious ideology (iow, superstition) that motivates the religious faction in this country.


_______________________

Religion --its true essence;

""I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off. So I ran over and said “Stop! don’t do it!” “Why shouldn’t I?” he said. I said, “Well, there’s so much to live for!” He said, “Like what?” I said, “Well…are you religious or atheist?” He said, “Religious.” I said, “Me too! Are you Christian or Buddhist?” He said, “Christian.” I said, “Me too! Are you Catholic or Protestant?” He said, “Protestant.” I said, “Me too! Are you Episcopalian or Baptist?” He said, “Baptist!” I said,”Wow! Me too! Are you Baptist church of God or Baptist church of the Lord?” He said, “Baptist church of God!” I said, “Me too! Are you original baptist church of god, or are you reformed baptist church of god?” He said,”Reformed Baptist church of god!” I said, “Me too! Are you reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1879, or reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1915?” He said, “Reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1915!” I yelled, “Die, heretic scum”, and pushed him off the bridge."" — Emo Phillips

I have no doubt that's true. As a religionist, you probably aren't any better than any of them.

But I for one am better than that; I am 'better' in the sense that I am more human, more ethical and more rational than any religionist on earth who would go out and wage war against, and kill his fellow man because that other man worships a different invisible supernatural entity than the one he has chosen to worship.

Well, you have the right to your opinion. You think you are better than them.. and you are, in a certain sense. This is a pretty deep issue. While you aren't trying to kill innocent people, like Al Queda and terrorists, I see all of humanity as one barrage of sinful beings. You view it entirely different. I can agree that certain people have better morals, better judgment, and are more ethically sound than others.. but in the end we are all the same beast IMO.



Far be it from me to disagree.

I have often said that the terrorists who flew the planes into the towers were little different than the rest of the superstitionists on the planet, in that they did what they did for religious reasons.......the same sort of religious ideology (iow, superstition) that motivates the religious faction in this country.


Well, I'll step down from the big picture and talk about this. The only thing the same about terrorists who flew planes into the towers and Mr. Jones who is a Christian is that they both put God before anybody else. That is where it ends. Islam and Christianity are good religions.. but the radical sects are against what their religion stands for. However, the islamic radicals seem to be much more active today.

when you use non-combatants for human shields, there's an increase in collateral damage.

Right. I guess that makes it ok then.

Apparently, it does to them. They're offing each other in record number, Paul, and guess what - that's not our fault; they've been doing it for thousands of years.

Apparently, it does to them. They're offing each other in record number, Paul, and guess what - that's not our fault; they've been doing it for thousands of years.
Guess what, its not your fault at all. Your only fault lies in arming, financing and apologizing for them, not actually pulling the trigger.

How on earth do you figure!? They're shooting each other with Kalashnikovs, and blowing each other up with Russian made bicycle bombs, plastique, tripwire mines, and various other IEDs. Where's your head? :confused:

ON EDIT: I think you're referring strictly to Israel, and yes, they've pulled their fair share of shit, but they've also received their fair share of shit BY THE PEOPLE I WAS TALKING ABOUT ABOVE; you know....the ORIGINAL aggressors.

How on earth do you figure!? They're shooting each other with Kalashnikovs, and blowing each other up with Russian made bicycle bombs, plastique, tripwire mines, and various other IEDs. Where's your head? :confused:
The Palestinians use various weaponry true.
Israel uses US equipment to kill Palestinian children.

PS. My heads on my shoulders.

The Palestinians use various weaponry true.
Israel uses US equipment to kill Palestinian children.
So Israel's the monster in your opinion. Fine.

Oh, and just to clarify - we didn't give Israel weapons to kill children; we gave them weapons to stop OTHER people from killing THEIR children, and that's something their neighbors are quite adept at doing.

So Israel's the monster in your opinion. Fine.

Oh, and just to clarify - we didn't give Israel weapons to kill children; we gave them weapons to stop OTHER people from killing THEIR children, and that's something their neighbors are quite adept at doing.

So America gave Israel weapons to stop other people from killing 'their' children.
OK. So why is it that the US refuses to condemn an Israeli 'shoot to kill policy'
on Palestinian children-with American weapons ?

I do not trust Israel with nukes any more than Iran or N Korea. Israelies are just as crazy and violent as the arabs. The only reason they still exist is because they have wealthy friends in the US government and we want to keep a foothold in the middle east.

it has nothing to do with their rights to have a country of their own...

it has nothing to do with their rights to have a country of their own...
So Palestinians being ejected from Palestine and demanding some of it back isnt a right ?

I still think it was pretty stupid to put Israel where it is. If the Jews needed their own country (and who says that's a right anyways?), maybe they should have put it somewhere that wasn't already full of people (and people who don't particularly like Jews, at that).

I still think it was pretty stupid to put Israel where it is. If the Jews needed their own country (and who says that's a right anyways?), maybe they should have put it somewhere that wasn't already full of people (and people who don't particularly like Jews, at that).
I dont think there is anything wrong with its location, however, the fact that they refuse to share the land with the Palestinians as two seperate entities, while suppressing those Palestinians with brute force, is terrible.

Also, since when has its main backer (America) approved of one faith states ?

Also, since when has its main backer (America) approved of one faith states ?
Israel is technically a secular state with no official state religion.

Israel is technically a secular state with no official state religion.
Yep-its also technically no nuclear weapons.

Yep-its also technically no nuclear weapons.
What is that supposed to mean? Israel's government is secular just like the U.S. government (actually I'd say they do a better job of it than we do).

So Palestinians being ejected from Palestine and demanding some of it back isnt a right ?
they weren't ejected, they fled for fear of the oncomming onslaught of the Arab armies that were going to wipe Israel off the map. if they would have stayed put, they could have voted it off the map.

I still think it was pretty stupid to put Israel where it is. If the Jews needed their own country (and who says that's a right anyways?), maybe they should have put it somewhere that wasn't already full of people (and people who don't particularly like Jews, at that).
they do have a history there, it's not like they're from Antarctica.

they do have a history there, it's not like they're from Antarctica.
That's not the point. Let me put it another way. What if we decided to take all the people in Britain with Norman ancestry and put them in Normandy, kicking out the French people who now live there and establishing an "independent" Norman state sponsored by the British government? How do you think the French would feel about that?

That's not the point. Let me put it another way. What if we decided to take all the people in Britain with Norman ancestry and put them in Normandy, kicking out the French people who now live there and establishing an "independent" Norman state sponsored by the British government? How do you think the French would feel about that?
if it were HRM QE II's land, there's not a lot they could say about it. i suppose they could not flee the onslaught of French troops trying to force the Normans returning to their homeland, and just stay put. considering the effectiveness of French and Arab armies, that would be the sound choice.

Let me ask you a question.... Who did the land that is now Israel belong to in 1947?

Let me ask you a question.... Who did the land that is now Israel belong to in 1947?
England.

Yep


Well we don't know for sure, but FT calls it fact because he wants it to be so.

And I trust Israel with nukes more than N. Korea... I think anyone with common sense would.

England.
Do you think the British Mandate of Palestine gave England the right to just divide up the land regardless of the wishes of the people who lived there? Do you really believe that it was a good idea to just move a bunch of Jews in there and expect nothing bad to happen?

If Israel has a sissy liberal (suicide) policy, they would not exist. It is in the extremest Muslim religion to kill the infidel. They hate Jews and Israel the most.
Israel has 2 choices.

1. Have a bad ass millitary

2. Become Arab land


So America gave Israel weapons to stop other people from killing 'their' children.
OK. So why is it that the US refuses to condemn an Israeli 'shoot to kill policy'
on Palestinian children-with American weapons ?

Do you think the British Mandate of Palestine gave England the right to just divide up the land regardless of the wishes of the people who lived there? Do you really believe that it was a good idea to just move a bunch of Jews in there and expect nothing bad to happen?
there were already a bunch of Jews there. the English and the U.N. just made it official.

there were already a bunch of Jews there. the English and the U.N. just made it official.
There were a bunch of Jews there, but there were also a bunch of Arabs there. So for them it was either leave behind their homes and all they had ever known, or stay there and be ruled by this new government of people who certainly didn't have their interests in mind.

Israel has 2 choices.

1. Have a bad ass millitary
2. Become Arab land
You're absolutely right about this. Sooo overall, definitely the best spot to put the new Jewish homeland, yeah?

What is that supposed to mean? Israel's government is secular just like the U.S. government (actually I'd say they do a better job of it than we do).
Any Jew the planet over, can go live in Israel, no problem.
A Palestinian cant even move around freely is his own land.

they weren't ejected, they fled for fear of the oncomming onslaught of the Arab armies that were going to wipe Israel off the map. if they would have stayed put, they could have voted it off the map.
Your actually suggesting that the Palestinians fled because of Arab hostility.

Thats a good one, maybe they just done Israeli work for them, Im surprised your not suggesting that Arabs demanded the Palesitinians be herded into Gaza like animals also :rolleyes:

Israel uses US equipment to kill Palestinian children.

Yup.

And for many millions of ignorant American drones, that is perfectly acceptable.

Originally Posted by Freethinker --I have often said that the terrorists who flew the planes into the towers were little different than the rest of the superstitionists on the planet, in that they did what they did for religious reasons.......the same sort of religious ideology (iow, superstition) that motivates the religious faction in this country.

I see all of humanity as one barrage of sinful beings. You view it entirely different.

Wow. I just wish I could explain to you how utterly fucking sick, how fucking twisted and disturbed that rational people --humanists and freethinkers-- find such a belief to be.


Well, I'll step down from the big picture and talk about this. The only thing the same about terrorists who flew planes into the towers and Mr. Jones who is a Christian is that they both put God before anybody else.

I'd say that another extremely significant *similarity* is that certain devout religionists (from whatever country it may occur in) believe that anyone who follows a 'different' gawd is a heathen and an apostate who deserves to be killed.



That is where it ends. Islam and Christianity are good religions.

Okay. We disagree.

All three of the hierarchal, paternalistic religions -- Judaism, Christianity and Islam-- are barbaric, despicable beliefs based purely on superstition and the fear of death.

Yup.

And for many millions of ignorant American drones, that is perfectly acceptable.
Well, we all know it's certainly acceptable when Palestinians kill imperialist, Jew babies, right? I mean, in light of those pig-dog infidels appropriating land after they were attacked the first time by god's "chosen people" (who obviously didn't have a grudge then, and don't now) - it's also totally acceptable to move your mortars closer to Tel Aviv when Israel makes a land concession. And that notwithstanding, it also makes it easier to poison the Israeli water supply, which, as you know, is an added bonus for the real "victims" here; the Palestinians.

You know, when you posted the kill ratio yesterday, in a stunning display of being intellectually dishonest, you immediately concluded that there was a disparity in the tally because the Israelis were solely responsible for every Palestinian death. You didn't even entertain the notion that a sizable portion of the dead Palestinians were killed by their own people, and that's not something someone with an ounce of integrity or a three-digit IQ would do.

Zzzzzzzzzz this is like saying that every Palestinian out there supports Hamas and violence, its nonsense. Israel is not the victum here, the Palestinians are suffering far far more than they are.

Well, we all know it's certainly acceptable when Palestinians kill imperialist, Jew babies, right? I mean, in light of those pig-dog infidels appropriating land after they were attacked the first time by god's "chosen people" (who obviously didn't have a grudge then, and don't now) - it's also totally acceptable to move your mortars closer to Tel Aviv when Israel makes a land concession.

It is regrettable that there is still so much violence coming from both sides. But Israel holds all the cards, and has been far more guilty of murderous atrocities against the Palestinians than the other way around. Wouldn't you agree?


You know, when you posted the kill ratio yesterday, in a stunning display of being intellectually dishonest, you immediately concluded that there was a disparity in the tally because the Israelis were solely responsible for every Palestinian death.

Please show me where I made that claim. I do not recall doing so.

You didn't even entertain the notion that a sizable portion of the dead Palestinians were killed by their own people...

I'll admit, that did not immediately occur to me. It seems highly unlikely. I guess it depends on what you're calling a 'sizeable portion'.

If you're saying that it is half of them or more, i'd have a very hard time believing that.

What is your evidence that that is the case?

It is regrettable that there is still so much violence coming from both sides. But Israel holds all the cards, and has been far more guilty of murderous atrocities against the Palestinians than the other way around. Wouldn't you agree?
when Israel hands out gas masks, the instructions are in Hebrew, English, and Arabic.

when Israel hands out gas masks, the instructions are in Hebrew, English, and Arabic.

How very thoughtful of them.

Do they also provide free burials to the Palestinians that they are slaughteri..........err.....uhh....that is to say, to the Palestinians who are "killing themselves"?

How very thoughtful of them.

Do they also provide free burials to the Palestinians that they are slaughteri..........err.....uhh....that is to say, to the Palestinians who are "killing themselves"?
i don't know what Hamas does with their money.

when Israel hands out gas masks, the instructions are in Hebrew, English, and Arabic.

Well, that makes up for them using chemical weapons in the first place then. :rolleyes:

Well, that makes up for them using chemical weapons in the first place then. :rolleyes:
funny, i don't recall them doing anything of the sort in the 1st gulf war when scuds were raining down on them...you have a source?

I just want to throw this out there, I don't know if has been discussed in this thread or not, I only read the first page.

Israel, more specifically the Jews, have been in that region for thousands of years. Since way before Christ. Islam was invented, yes invented, in like what? 600-ish AD? And is that not the cause for all the strife in that region now? The Jews have more of a right to be there than anyone else. Hell, they even let there be a Palestinian state, and they share Jerusalem with Arabs and Christians alike. Yet the Palestinians continue to fire rockets and such into Israel on a regular basis. The US is the one restraining Israel from going completely ape-shit in that region.

I just want to throw this out there, I don't know if has been discussed in this thread or not, I only read the first page.

Israel, more specifically the Jews, have been in that region for thousands of years. Since way before Christ. Islam was invented, yes invented, in like what? 600-ish AD? And is that not the cause for all the strife in that region now? The Jews have more of a right to be there than anyone else. Hell, they even let there be a Palestinian state, and they share Jerusalem with Arabs and Christians alike. Yet the Palestinians continue to fire rockets and such into Israel on a regular basis. The US is the one restraining Israel from going completely ape-shit in that region.
i think i brought that up, and shouldn't you be surfing?

funny, i don't recall them doing anything of the sort in the 1st gulf war when scuds were raining down on them...you have a source?

Here is just one.

The BBC reported: “The Israeli army has used new unidentified weapons. In February 2001 a new gas was used in Gaza. A hundred and eighty patients were admitted to hospitals with severe convulsions….Israel is outside chemical and biological weapons treaties and still refuses to say what the new gas was.”

If they don't use them, then why not sign onto chemical and biological weapons treaties?

Here is just one.


If they don't use them, then why not sign onto chemical and biological weapons treaties?

an unsourced blog quote is no source at all. and those chemical weapons treaties don't apply to crowd control agents used on civilians.-see Waco.

Islam was invented, yes invented, in like what? 600-ish AD?

Yes.

And Judaism was invented, yes invented, in like what, 2000-ish B.C.

an unsourced blog quote is no source at all.

Since when is the BBC a "blog"?


and those chemical weapons treaties don't apply to crowd control agents used on civilians.-see Waco.

Well, I guess that makes it ok, then?

Yes.

And Judaism was invented, yes invented, in like what, 2000-ish B.C.

Yes.

Yes, it was, my point is they lived there first, 2600 years before the Arabs even cared about that area.

And yeah Mike, I wish I were surfing. I'm in Georgia right now though.

Yes.

Yes, it was, my point is they lived there first, 2600 years before the Arabs even cared about that area.

And yeah Mike, I wish I were surfing. I'm in Georgia right now though.
So do you think we should get out of the U.S. and let the Native Americans have it?

Yes.

And Judaism was invented, yes invented, in like what, 2000-ish B.C.
it's the year 5768 on the Hebrew calendar, so we're looking at about 3760 before Christ.

Yes.

Yes, it was, my point is they lived there first, 2600 years before the Arabs even cared about that area.

And yeah Mike, I wish I were surfing. I'm in Georgia right now though.
watch out for the sharks-they've been biting, but mostly they're still spitting folks back out.:thumbs:

So do you think we should get out of the U.S. and let the Native Americans have it?
if the Feds want to give back my little slice of Earth back, they're welcome to it, but i'm suing somebody!:rant:

Since when is the BBC a "blog"?
when did the BBC start referring to itself in the 3rd person?


Well, I guess that makes it ok, then?
better than a terminal case of lead poisoning.

it's the year 5768 on the Hebrew calendar, so we're looking at about 3760 before Christ.

BZZZZZZZZZZZT!

Sorry. Wrong.

According to the Bible itself, Abraham was father of the Jews, and the patriarch of Israel. Judaism began with the covenant God made with Abraham, which is talked about in the book of Genesis, starting in chapter 17.

And Abraham was not even born until (by various accounts) 2066 b.c. to 2035 b.c.

Thanks for playing though.

BZZZZZZZZZZZT!

Sorry. Wrong.

According to the Bible itself, Abraham was father of the Jews, and the patriarch of Israel. Judaism began with the covenant God made with Abraham, which is talked about in the book of Genesis, starting in chapter 17.

And Abraham was not even born until (by various accounts) 2066 b.c. to 2035 b.c.

Thanks for playing though.

Totally not even the point, but yeah. The Jews were around way before anyone else.

As for the Native Americans. I think it was shitty what we did to them, but we really can't do anything about that now. To put it bluntly, we (the Europeans/Americans) conquered them easily in the end, in the name of expansion, not religion. The Jews, Muslims, and Christians have been fighting over the same piece of land for thousands of years now in the name of Yahweh, Allah, and Jesus.

better than a terminal case of lead poisoning.

You think it is preferable that we use chemical and biological weapons than bullets?

Good luck trying with making that case. :rolleyes:

The Jews were around way before anyone else.

Lucy was a jew?

:@@:

Im trying to figure out where this 'jews were there before anyone else' argument is going.
No doubt humans who didnt believe in any of the 3 faiths were there first.

Im trying to figure out where this 'jews were there before anyone else' argument is going.

Me too. That makes no sense whatsoever unless it is just one of those people who believes every word of the Bible to be literally true.


No doubt humans who didnt believe in any of the 3 faiths were there first.

I think every reasonable person would agree with that.

Very few Christian Fundamentalists are reasonable tho.
When it comes to arrogance, you can always hide behind god.

Very few Christian Fundamentalists are reasonable tho.
When it comes to arrogance, you can always hide behind god.

I would say that holds true for fundamentalists of any stripe.

I would say that holds true for fundamentalists of any stripe.
Yes Id agree with that, tho in this case the 'any stripe' doesnt finance and support the Israeli was machine.

Lucy was a jew?

:@@:

No, Lucy was not a Jew. Cavemen are not fighting over the holy land right now either are they?

they'll probally use every one of them nukes

As for the Native Americans. I think it was shitty what we did to them, but we really can't do anything about that now. To put it bluntly, we (the Europeans/Americans) conquered them easily in the end, in the name of expansion, not religion. The Jews, Muslims, and Christians have been fighting over the same piece of land for thousands of years now in the name of Yahweh, Allah, and Jesus.
What does the fact that it's about religion have to do with it? You're saying that if people are fighting over land for religious reasons, we should give it to the people who were there first, but if the land is contested for other reasons we should not?

You think it is preferable that we use chemical and biological weapons than bullets?

Good luck trying with making that case. :rolleyes:
oh ye of many words but little knowledge, mustard gas and crowd control agents are not the same thing. tear gas and similar chemicals are better than shooting into a crowd that won't disperse.

oh ye of many words but little knowledge, mustard gas and crowd control agents are not the same thing. tear gas and similar chemicals are better than shooting into a crowd that won't disperse.

So... according to you, they hand out gas masks before shooting tear gas into a crowd?

Cavemen are not fighting over the holy land right now either are they?

Sometimes I am not sure.

In contradiction to what we've been told, having nuclear weapons doesn't seem to have prevented israel from being attacked. Another theory out the window.

has there ever been a major offensive strike on Israel, or the US since nuclear weapons.