Yes,I know.How cavalierly clever to use the convenient
Leftist approach.Namely to use names and be quick to call
anyone a *Racist,at the first mention of race,and any subsequent
differing.Leftist are also the ones who benefit from a Racist
discussion,since they OWN the Race-baiting trait.Seldom does a
Republican hurl the word " Racist " around.

We're not discussing a racial issue.


I don't understand why Heterosexuals should have to claim
defeat,every time they defend their lifestyle,vs. a Gay.

Defend their lifestyle against what?


This isn't a question of a wronged party.Yes,Gays,especially good gays,
who were forced to remain in the closet,50 and fewer years ago,no
longer have a stigma,a negative stigma to overcome.

Is that a good thing?


What is now occurring is a Social culture shock of transferrence.
Heterosexuals are now being given the stigmata,as the party
that should feel shame and be forced to adapt.

How are you being forced to adapt?


Based sheerly on Liberal,years of liberal pandering to a group
that now sees political power and gain thru it's increased membership,
at the expense of Americana.We are quickly becoming like France.
There will be many Boy type Male Lead actors.And fewer if any
John Wayne/Clark Gable types.
That's one argument I'd make for not liking or respecting what the Gay
Community has brought about.A Culture,almost devoid of those
Historic,strong American Male types.

I understand now. You don't like boyish men, you prefer real macho acting men...got it.

and by speaking down to him, you reinforce his personal experiances.:@@:

Perhaps his horrible attitude towards gays causes his experiences?

It's abundantly clear that Gays DO NOT Care much for straights {heterosexuals}.
I've talked with many a Gay,and they ALL have that mindset.
In fact,they spend great amounts of their time Mocking and
talking down about Straights.They have decided haughty contempt for
other than their own predisposition or Proclivity.


I know a gay guy. Damn nice person. He has shown no contempt for my straightness whatsoever. Although he does have a decided bias against idiots.

I disrespect Gays,entirely,when they run on and on about their
Gayness.I'll never disrespect a Gay,unless they act gay.
That being talk/dress/facial expressions and gestures that are
overtly effeminate.

What are your thoughts on effeminate straight guys. Because I know one of those too. He's married, has a kid, and he's Catholic!

He's deserving of respect because he's an equal opportunity moron?
i didn't say he was deserving of respect...or did i imply it?:confused:

Perhaps his horrible attitude towards gays causes his experiences?
good point:thumbs:

THE only Rights Gays should have is the right to act like
Silly Pansies,in the privacy of their own space.

Employers should have the right to NOT hire them.
Rentors { Landlords } should have the right to NOT rent to them.
and so on and so forth.
Strictly on account of their clique,pile-on mob mentality.
They have consistently shown themself to be centrist motivators
of a selfish,often hedonistic lifestyle.
They care not a whit,as a group,of the betterment of overall
Society.Only their selfish desire to propagate a sinfull and
often malicious disregard for traditional standards of sexuality
and decorum within civilised society.
If gays want ME to respect their wants and needs,they best
not try and interpret wholesomeness as corny or outdated. Why don't you go to this event in September and wear a sign saying that? www.folsomstreetfair.com

I'm convinced our resident Fool is a top who just hates bottoms. :D

I'm convinced our resident Fool is a top who just hates bottoms. :D

Unless ! Unless we talkin a gaggle of Goose'rs round hears.
Yeah...that's it.

Yes,I know.How cavalierly clever to use the convenient
Leftist approach.Namely to use names and be quick to call
anyone a *Racist,at the first mention of race,and any subsequent
differing.Leftist are also the ones who benefit from a Racist
discussion,since they OWN the Race-baiting trait.Seldom does a
Republican hurl the word " Racist " around.
Same thing here with the Gay debate.Anyone disagreeing with
the Leftist approach of just GO ALONG to get along,no matter
how unfair or wrong,is met with the usual barrage of name-calling
and insistence the other person is wrong.

I am not one to use the term "bigot" lightly. I don't believe I've ever called anyone else on this board a bigot for not sharing my views on gay marriage. But in your case, you can not act like the victim here and hide behind the "I said nothing wrong and he called me a bigot" defense.

Try this little test. Substitute "homosexuals" with the word "Christianity" in your recent posts, and you would be the first to call it bigotry...and it would be. To say that "gays don't deserve any rights" is the exact definition of prejudice/bigotry. Show some respect for yourself...don't make bigoted statements, and then whine about "name-calling" when you get called a bigot for those very statements.


I don't understand why Heterosexuals should have to claim
defeat,every time they defend their lifestyle,vs. a Gay.

I've listened to MANY debates about homosexuality and I've NEVER heard the heterosexual lifestyle being attacked. Please back up your claim by giving a specific example when heterosexuality had to be defended.

This isn't a question of a wronged party.

You say they should be discriminated in employment and housing, but you say this is not a wronged party???

I'll never disrespect a Gay,unless they act gay.
That being talk/dress/facial expressions and gestures that are
overtly effeminate.


Dress? Every gay guy I know wears shirts and pants. And talk??? Have you ever read your posts? Its some kind of half-English or ebonics or something. You are the last person who should say that the level of respect someone deserves is based on how they talk.

You say they should be discriminated in employment and housing, but you say this is not a wronged party???
Back up. The right of an employer or property owner to choose whom he employs/leases to trumps any "right" gays (or blacks, or people with pets, or people who own loud stereo systems, or people who smoke) have not to be discriminated against. Foolsworth may be a hairy troglodyte, but he's right on the employer/lessor issue (albeit probably for the wrong reasons).

Try this ...



You Ignurnt fOOl.You haven't the brains God gave Geese.
THE only thing that qualifies a Gay,is the Sexuality.
Take the SEX out of a Gay,and you no longer have a Gay.
That should speak voulmns.
But,to sheepish,dumb-downed drones,it will not.
If Gays want My respect,they best rid themself of the act.
The act of sexual depravity.

Back up. The right of an employer or property owner to choose whom he employs/leases to trumps any "right" gays (or blacks, or people with pets, or people who own loud stereo systems, or people who smoke) have not to be discriminated against. Foolsworth may be a hairy troglodyte, but he's right on the employer/lessor issue (albeit probably for the wrong reasons).

For some time now, employers have not had the right to deny employment of housing to people because they are black, and sexual preference is also somewhat protected in those areas but that might differ from state to state. I'm also not aware of anyone denying employment or housing to people with loud stereos or people who smoke. They CAN say "you can't smoke or play loud music on my property" and still hire or rent to them.

If you are trying to argue that gay people are allowed to be denied housing or employment, then that would make them a "wronged party"...so I'm not sure what I was supposed to back up

Try this ...

You Ignurnt fOOl.You haven't the brains God gave Geese.

And I was the one supposedly doing the name calling.

THE only thing that qualifies a Gay,is the Sexuality.
Take the SEX out of a Gay,and you no longer have a Gay.
That should speak voulmns.

The EXACT same thing can be said of heterosexuals. Take the sex out of them and you no longer have a straight person.

If Gays want My respect,they best rid themself of the act.
The act of sexual depravity.

I guess you only respect abstinent people.

You obnoxious little brat.
Heterosexuals don't parade around with all kinds of mannerisms
and agenda and call themself Straights.
They don't call attention to their sexuality or lack thereof.
When Gays can learn to act,more like humans,instead of the
Freaks they pride themself,then maybe i'll cut them some slack.
Is all.

Heterosexuals don't parade around with all kinds of mannerisms
and agenda and call themself Straights.
They don't call attention to their sexuality or lack thereof.
But you just said it was the sex that made gay people gay, not the mannerisms. Or, as you said, "THE only thing that qualifies a Gay,is the Sexuality." Make up your mind.

Dress? Every gay guy I know wears shirts and pants.
http://www.vintagepostcards.org/auctions/female-impersonator-drag-queen-gay-homosexual-finocchio-san-francisco-ca-california.jpg

And talk??? Have you ever read your posts? Its some kind of half-English or ebonics or something. You are the last person who should say that the level of respect someone deserves is based on how they talk.

not his fault he writes way over your reading level.:corn:

Yeah, because to find a life choice not acceptable to your way of thinking is obviously a sign of fear.

It is a sign of fear when the "life choice" is not actually a "choice" at all.

Political affiliation is a choice.
Sexual orientation is a human condition people are born into.

If the way some people are born is "unacceptable to your way of thinking", that is your problem, not theirs.

It is a sign of fear when the "life choice" is not actually a "choice" at all.

Political affiliation is a choice.
Sexual orientation is a human condition people are born into.

If the way some people are born is "unacceptable to your way of thinking", that is your problem, not theirs.

Oh ! Just that simple ...eh?
So,if a child is reared around abusive,degenerate parents,it's
ok for them to grow-up into that mindset and subsequently
raise their own kids,likewise.
Does yer head ever hurt from such tedium of testicular masterbation.
You gots poor circulation thar Dr.Wadson.

Oh ! Just that simple ...eh?
So,if a child is reared around abusive,degenerate parents,it's
ok for them to grow-up into that mindset and subsequently
raise their own kids,likewise.
My mom was a lesbian. You can't compare homosexuality to "abusive, degenerate parents".

My mom was a lesbian. You can't compare homosexuality to "abusive, degenerate parents".

I should have been clearer.When Doofusdharm called in to
recite his little sappy soliquoy on choices and " sexual orientation "
I wanted to point out that many a criminal had abusive
parenting,that was directly the cause of criminal behavior,somewhere
in their life.Same with Sexuality.If a young boy is reared with No
Father present,then the Mother will be transferred thru the psyche
as the Father,and thereby discombobulate a young'ins notion
of what difference exists among a Mother & Father.
Thereby making it possible for an Oedipus complex,where a very present
Father is seen thru the eyes of children as the adversary and
competitor for the exclusive love and attention of the Mother.
I must say I don't believe our Doofusdharms has any " penis envy "
however.Well,maybe a widdle,when he makes it a point
to purchase only Sky-blue-pink Condoms.

Same with Sexuality.If a young boy is reared with No
Father present,then the Mother will be transferred thru the psyche
as the Father,and thereby discombobulate a young'ins notion
of what difference exists among a Mother & Father.
My mom and dad divorced when I was 5. I lived with my mom until I was nearly 15. And I think I have an idea of the difference between mother and father, that being a chromosome.
Thereby making it possible for an Oedipus complex,where a very present
Father is seen thru the eyes of children as the adversary and
competitor for the exclusive love and attention of the Mother.
I know I'm just one data point, but for a guy who grew up in a house with only one woman, then later two women, I have to say that I never came down with this hypothetical little disorder of yours. Perhaps you should stop relying so much on the teachings of Sigmund Freud, a notable fraud in the psychological community.

My mom and dad divorced when I was 5. I lived with my mom until I was nearly 15. And I think I have an idea of the difference between mother and father, that being a chromosome.

I know I'm just one data point, but for a guy who grew up in a house with only one woman, then later two women, I have to say that I never came down with this hypothetical little disorder of yours. Perhaps you should stop relying so much on the teachings of Sigmund Freud, a notable fraud in the psychological community.

Wha ? Schlomo a Fraud ?.Mores like a Freud.Dear Witson.
The Father of Psychoanalysis.
Ok...already! so maybe he err'd a widdle on " the testicles of eels "
in the Mitteilungen der osterreichischen Akademie der Wissenschaften.
So whataya gonna dude.
Spoil the eel and spare the rod.?

Leave it to someone named "Fool" to assert that homosexuality is a choice. :rolleyes:

Leave it to someone named "Fool" to assert that homosexuality is a choice. :rolleyes:

You've got some world-shaking New definitive proof that says
otherwise...thar BubbaDharms the Doof.?

Perhaps you should stop relying so much on the teachings of Sigmund Freud, a notable fraud in the psychological community.

There is some symmetry to that, considering that Fool is a notable fraud in this community.
:)

You obnoxious little brat.
Heterosexuals don't parade around with all kinds of mannerisms
and agenda and call themself Straights.
They don't call attention to their sexuality or lack thereof.
When Gays can learn to act,more like humans,instead of the
Freaks they pride themself,then maybe i'll cut them some slack.
Is all.

First off, TV sitcoms don't teach you all there is to know about gay people. As for straight people not exhibiting mannerisms, clothing, and calling attention to their sexuality - you've obviously never been to a heavy metal concert.

You've got some world-shaking New definitive proof that says
otherwise...thar BubbaDharms the Doof.?
Yeah, my existence, Vile's, and OD's.

Leave it to someone named "Fool" to assert that homosexuality is a choice. :rolleyes:
then are you asserting it's a defect? the truth lays somewhere in the middle.

Yeah, my existence, Vile's, and OD's.

I always git me a kick out of those who speak for others.
S'not just vouch,but pout,shout,damn near pull a wagon train.
I don't suppose you can speak directly about their potty training :

ALSO !

then are you asserting it's a defect?

Absolutely not.

then are you asserting it's a defect?

Why a defect?

I always git me a kick out of those who speak for others.


Me too. Like when you say that being gay is "wrong".

There is some symmetry to that, considering that Fool is a notable fraud in this community.
:)

I beg your deference.
I rarely take notes...hear & abouts.

Me too. Like when you say that being gay is "wrong".

It is wrong,because it cannot ever be established as a
quantifiable preternatural good within human interaction.
It's akin to establishing that poor sportsmanship has become
en vogue,so lets have some of it at the Olympics,as well.
Just because a culture has embraced a negative socialization trait
does not automatically mean it is Right.
Just like it wasn't right because the Romans thought it good
form to act with such blood lust when Humans were pitted
against the Lions.
Same damn thingy.

It is wrong,because it cannot ever be established as a
quantifiable preternatural good within human interaction.


Why is love bad?

Just because a culture has embraced a negative socialization trait
does not automatically mean it is Right.
Ah, like religion, yes?

Why a defect?
if it's not a choice, then what else is left?

keep in mind that Dhrama and Foolie are two of the most black & white thinkers to pass thru here.

Why is love bad?
it depends on what it makes you do...i beat my car up once. not the best of ideas, but it seemed right at the time.

if it's not a choice, then what else is left?

keep in mind that Dhrama and Foolie are two of the most black & white thinkers to pass thru here.

Grey areas are important,but as a rule,they simply add confusion
to the mix.Once a person adopts a Live and let live attitude,
they automatically are askin fer it.
Know thyself.
Don't experiment.
Experiments are for Rhesus monkeys and Apollo missions.
Man wasn't built for too much experimentation.
Just enough to teach and learn hard and fast rules to
live by.
Know thyself.
Tinker not.
I mean...S'not.

Yes,I know.How cavalierly clever to use the convenient
Leftist approach.Namely to use names and be quick to call
anyone a *Racist,at the first mention of race,and any subsequent
differing.Leftist are also the ones who benefit from a Racist
discussion,since they OWN the Race-baiting trait.Seldom does a
Republican hurl the word " Racist " around.


Maybe not, but instead Republicans use the word "unpatriotic" to smear people who disagree with them. Thats the Right's version of calling someone a racist or bigot.

You obnoxious little brat.

Is that more of the name-calling that you claim Republicans don't take part in? You seem to get a little whiny when people point your contradictions. Kind of ironic how you label others as pansies.

Heterosexuals don't parade around with all kinds of mannerisms and agenda and call themself Straights.


They don't need to define themselve's as much as gay people because everyone assumes people are straight unless given a reason to think otherwise.

They don't call attention to their sexuality

They do, you just don't notice it as obviously as when a gay person does it. Spend time with anyone for any period of time (gay or straight) and they'll drop clues that will tell you their sexual orientation...you just overlook it when its a straight person.

I always git me a kick out of those who speak for others.


So then who are you speaking for when you say being gay is a choice?

Is that more of the name-calling that you claim Republicans don't take part in? You seem to get a little whiny when people point your contradictions. Kind of ironic how you label others as pansies.



They don't need to define themselve's as much as gay people because everyone assumes people are straight unless given a reason to think otherwise.



They do, you just don't notice it as obviously as when a gay person does it. Spend time with anyone for any period of time (gay or straight) and they'll drop clues that will tell you their sexual orientation...you just overlook it when its a straight person.

very nicely done!

White House press secretary Dana Perino regarding the California Supreme Court ruling that struck down a ban on gay marriage:
"It's unfortunate when activist judges continue to seek to redefine marriage by court order -- without regard for the will of the people."
Says the woman whose boss lost the 2000 popular vote and had to get a shout-out from his dad's pals on the high court.
Says the lady whose boss routinely ignores the people's will when it comes to Iraq. And whose boss's thugs sued California over medical marijuana and tried to overturn the will of the voters.
Says the chick whose boss's party tried to depose Bill Clinton over sex, never mind that most people didn't want that either.
Your freedom doesn't count if it doesn't meet the terms and conditions of the White House. Remember that.
3 of the 4 judges in the majority were Republicans, for those keeping score. And while we're at it, Roe v. Wade? Republican Court.

So then who are you speaking for when you say being gay is a choice?

I don't have to be a heroin addict to know that it can easily,
very easily kill one.Not like being a Pot head or a Beer guzzler,
even someone who drops acid.
There has yet to be any formal declaration,study,or scientific
proof that a congenital link to birth exists.There is that link with
Alcoholics,however.
I say being gay is learned.Like crime.
One may have 2 very criminal parents,and still be free of the
desire to harm others or engage in a life of crime.
It's entirely due to environment.
Now,certain forms of Criminal insanity IS Inherited.
It may skip a generation or two.
I have to say,if there WAS a link to inherited Homosexuality,
it would have been established by now.
In fairness to the Human genome,it is not fully unravelled,however.
Is all.

I don't have to be a heroin addict to know that it can easily,
very easily kill one.Not like being a Pot head or a Beer guzzler,
even someone who drops acid.
There has yet to be any formal declaration,study,or scientific
proof that a congenital link to birth exists.There is that link with
Alcoholics,however.
I say being gay is learned.Like crime.
One may have 2 very criminal parents,and still be free of the
desire to harm others or engage in a life of crime.
It's entirely due to environment.
Now,certain forms of Criminal insanity IS Inherited.
It may skip a generation or two.
I have to say,if there WAS a link to inherited Homosexuality,
it would have been established by now.
In fairness to the Human genome,it is not fully unravelled,however.
Is all.
Something need not be genetic to be something outside of the realm of one's control. Gays didn't "choose" to be gay any more than you and I "chose" to be straight. Sexual preference is a desire; it's chemical and neurological. It isn't a choice.

You're wrong Borghunter, some gays do choose to be gay. I saw it many times in college and I hear it's going on in prison too.

You're wrong Borghunter, some gays do choose to be gay. I saw it many times in college and I hear it's going on in prison too.
So when did you choose when to be straight? Is it a day of celebration, like one's birthday, the choice of one's sexual preference?

Something need not be genetic to be something outside of the realm of one's control. Gays didn't "choose" to be gay any more than you and I "chose" to be straight. Sexual preference is a desire; it's chemical and neurological. It isn't a choice.

Actuallly speaking entirely for myself and firsthand,I DID choose
to be Straight.
There Is no Gay Gene.But,there is an Alcoholic gene.
I know there is pressure,not unlike this Global Warming hoax,to
perpetuate the myth that Gays are born and have little choice.
But that is myth.A Gay lifestyle is entirely chosen.
Show me a Gay,who was pressured into it,or insists they were
always that way from birth.Yes,some kids {totlers} are more
physical and some more efeminate than others.
But once past the Totler stage,it's something that can be weaned
away from.Like kids who had a disposition to write left-handed in
grade school,early on.The disposition to have sexual curiosity,one
way or another,depends on the environ.Remove certain stimuli and the
result {tendency,curiosity} diminishes.

You're wrong Borghunter, some gays do choose to be gay. I saw it many times in college and I hear it's going on in prison too.
Homosexual activity doesn't mean the person has a homosexual orientation.

And I don't think there's anything as being straight or gay since birth, as sexual desire doesn't even come in until puberty. And there's more than just a straight/gay dynamic. There's bisexuality, fluid sexuality, and some people who have no sexual drives at all.

You can't control your desires. That's like saying I chose to like chocolate and chose not to like strawberry. It's just something that's in you. It may not be genetic, but it's not something I control.

And I don't think there's anything as being straight or gay since birth, as sexual desire doesn't even come in until puberty. And there's more than just a straight/gay dynamic. There's bisexuality, fluid sexuality, and some people who have no sexual drives at all.

You can't control your desires. That's like saying I chose to like chocolate and chose not to like strawberry. It's just something that's in you. It may not be genetic, but it's not something I control.

You have struck on something.One can't really know if they
like chocolate or strawberry unless they try it,right.?
Same with Heroin.
Or beer,bourbon,cheese,fish,fish eggs etc.
Therefore exposure and acceptance of it may be the key.

And I don't think there's anything as being straight or gay since birth, as sexual desire doesn't even come in until puberty. And there's more than just a straight/gay dynamic. There's bisexuality, fluid sexuality, and some people who have no sexual drives at all.

You can't control your desires. That's like saying I chose to like chocolate and chose not to like strawberry. It's just something that's in you. It may not be genetic, but it's not something I control.

Actually I was bein real nice.
Of course we as humans control our desires { what we like }.
If you don't like Onions on yer burger,by golly you either scrape
them off or just don't eat them.There is a choice to many things.
Particularly sex.
Maybe one hasn't had nicely sautee'd in olive oil onions,and
decided later on,yes they actually do choose onions.
But no,humans aren't born with a preternatural bent for dislike
of onions.It's something they have to experience.
Now ... Strawberries is another story.If one's Mom & Dad are
both allergic to strawberries,than yes,a gene is responsible.
Find that Gay alergic gene for me,an I'll buy you a Banana split
with lots of raw onions.If you so choose.

Bwa Haa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Maybe one hasn't had nicely sautee'd in olive oil onions,and
decided later on,yes they actually do choose onions.
They may choose to have onions again, but they didn't choose to like them. I can't be forced to like ketchup, no matter how many times I get it in packets. I can't eat ketchup and tell myself "you are going to like this", just as I can't eat a nice steak and say "you are going to hate this". It's something entirely outside of the realm of my ability to change.

I have to say,if there WAS a link to inherited Homosexuality,
it would have been established by now.

I don't think its "inherited" (meaning, if someone in your family was gay, then you are more likely to be gay). I just think its the way you are. I guess thats to say you are born that way, even thought sexual preference doesn't really come into effect until puberty. But all people are not born the same, so I think that is possible.

I say being gay is learned.Like crime.
One may have 2 very criminal parents,and still be free of the
desire to harm others or engage in a life of crime.
It's entirely due to environment.

When I hear people say its due to environment, I never hear examples of what in their environment would cause them to be gay. Please explain what you think causes one person to be gay and another not to be even if they are raised in similar environments. Did one of them just hear "Its Raining Men" more times than the other?


Actuallly speaking entirely for myself and firsthand,I DID choose to be Straight.

I seriously doubt you CHOSE. That would mean you found yourself being equally attracted to men AND women, but chose to only be involved with the opposite gender. So tell me, is that what happened.

I did not choose to be straight...when I reached puberty I just knew I was attracted to women and had no interest in men. Pretty simple.

A Gay lifestyle is entirely chosen.


There you go, speaking for others again.

Of course we as humans control our desires { what we like }.
If you don't like Onions on yer burger,by golly you either scrape
them off or just don't eat them.

Thats not controlling what you LIKE, thats controlling what you EAT. You can like onions but choose to never eat them.

You're wrong Borghunter, some gays do choose to be gay. I saw it many times in college and I hear it's going on in prison too.

So you're saying men in prison have a choice between sex with women or sex with men? No, they do not...so the only choice is sex with men or NO sex for life (or 20 years, or however long their sentence is). I would choose no sex, but some men would rather have something than nothing I guess. But that doesn't mean they are gay (meaning they prefer men over women). By that logic, I guess men in prison CHOOSE to eat prison food instead of steak and lobster.

Homosexual activity doesn't mean the person has a homosexual orientation.

Allow me to clarify. I am not talking about activity. I'm talking about people "coming out of the closet" and declaring to the world that they are gay as gay can be, only to turn around a few years later and decide that they were straight after all. I've seen vice versa a few times too. Clearly, the "gay gene" can be turned on and off for more than a few.

They may choose to have onions again, but they didn't choose to like them. I can't be forced to like ketchup, no matter how many times I get it in packets. I can't eat ketchup and tell myself "you are going to like this", just as I can't eat a nice steak and say "you are going to hate this". It's something entirely outside of the realm of my ability to change.

You're wrong.And congrats for talkin like a true blue liberal
juvenile.
My proof.
How many kiddies like Broccoli.? Or most greens.?
Then as they age and become more mature,learn to like the
stuff they dint as a Kiddie,and dread the stuff they did,like
yucky candy { that stuff at a carnival }.
You're just talkin,actin an bein belligerent.
Which is the problem with yer debate on this issue.
Pig-headed obstinate.
Like a little spoiled pre-teen.

So you're saying men in prison have a choice between sex with women or sex with men? No, they do not...so the only choice is sex with men or NO sex for life (or 20 years, or however long their sentence is).

Thank you, my friend. You have just illuminated what human sexuality is really about.

The fact is that anyone can stick their dick (or vagina) in whatever they want and convince themselves that it can and will feel good. There is example after example of people who have "kinky" sex with animals, objects, groups of people, etc. Since we are one of the only species that has sex for pleasure, we have the ability to do this.

Now does this mean that one particular group of deviants (homosexuals) gets to change the thousands of year old definition of marriage to fit their needs to marry while another group of deviants (people like me that want to fuck blow-up dolls) doesn't?

I say no.

So you're saying men in prison have a choice between sex with women or sex with men? No, they do not...so the only choice is sex with men or NO sex for life (or 20 years, or however long their sentence is). I would choose no sex, but some men would rather have something than nothing I guess. But that doesn't mean they are gay (meaning they prefer men over women). By that logic, I guess men in prison CHOOSE to eat prison food instead of steak and lobster.

Whoa.There's a whole lot to quibble over in that vast assignment.
Men in Prison have certain choices.Lobster and Steak,is not
among them.They have little choice but to eat Prison food,or
somehow adapt by smuggling-in food,like drugs.
Does a person who performs a gay act make them gay.
If it's entirely voluntary...than yes.
Do some men in prison have sex w/o a partner.Yes,It would be
masturbation.Same with a Female.Rationalizing the sex act is
somethin than nearly every human faces.I don't think any one human,
has an unlimited supply of sex options.That has to be sought out.
Maybe a Rich Oil Shiek,has unlimited moola and therefore options,
like Uday did.But Many a Gay,spend vast amounts of their time,
searching out those options or places to seek their addiction.Regardless
of Moola.Take the Peeps { Porn Parlors } in this Country.
Rationalizing the need for sex,is not a valid argument.
We are looking for the pathology of Gayness.What inherently makes
or determines gayness.
Dig Daddio ?

Now does this mean that one particular group of deviants (homosexuals) gets to change the thousands of year old definition of marriage to fit their needs to marry while another group of deviants (people like me that want to fuck blow-up dolls) doesn't?

I say no.
Because these millions of "deviants" have been observed by millions of people far more intelligent than yourself and have found that discrimination in this case is a bad thing.

Your blow up doll, or your dog, are not on the same level as a human romantic relationship (regardless of sex). You know this, so don't spew such bullshit.

The fact is that anyone can stick their dick (or vagina) in whatever they want and convince themselves that it can and will feel good.
Stick your dick in a blender someday, and turn it on, if you're so convinced that you can convince yourself that it will feel good. Or, for a less dangerous example, try bangin' a dude and making yourself like it. I bet you can't, because I'm sure I can't.

Because here's the thing: If homosexuality is a choice, then you should be able to make it. I guarantee you wouldn't be able to.
Now does this mean that one particular group of deviants (homosexuals) gets to change the thousands of year old definition of marriage to fit their needs to marry
The definition of "marriage" changed quite a bit in just the last century, when interracial marriage first became legal. And by the way, marriage for "love" is a very modern concept; it didn't even exist five hundred years ago.

Because these millions of "deviants" have been observed by millions of people far more intelligent than yourself and have found that discrimination in this case is a bad thing.

Your blow up doll, or your dog, are not on the same level as a human romantic relationship (regardless of sex). You know this, so don't spew such bullshit.

Gays aren't Gay because of caring or romantic relationships.
Gays are Gays,strickly due to the Act.
Take the Act away from a Gay,and they are no longer Gay.
Like the definition of Rape may be construed as Penetration,the
definition of Gay is their Sexual act,performed.
If a Gay is asexual,and never performs the act,they are not
Homosexual.
Like dig the use of sexual in Homosexual.
Gays aren't gay because they are caring,feeling,romantic
types.It's the raw sex act.
Gays sometimes need to be told that.
Gays suffer denial.
There's a really good reason Homosexuality is considered depraved.
It has nothing to do with this convenient excuse the Gay Community is
promulgating.

I don't think its "inherited" (meaning, if someone in your family was gay, then you are more likely to be gay). I just think its the way you are. I guess thats to say you are born that way, even thought sexual preference doesn't really come into effect until puberty. But all people are not born the same, so I think that is possible.



When I hear people say its due to environment, I never hear examples of what in their environment would cause them to be gay. Please explain what you think causes one person to be gay and another not to be even if they are raised in similar environments. Did one of them just hear "Its Raining Men" more times than the other?




I seriously doubt you CHOSE. That would mean you found yourself being equally attracted to men AND women, but chose to only be involved with the opposite gender. So tell me, is that what happened.

I did not choose to be straight...when I reached puberty I just knew I was attracted to women and had no interest in men. Pretty simple.



There you go, speaking for others again.



Thats not controlling what you LIKE, thats controlling what you EAT. You can like onions but choose to never eat them.

Yer really screwed up there bud.
I don't think even bein On Jerry Springer,wood do mush good.
Yer obviously living in the lap of sheer obliviousness.

Stick your dick in a blender someday, and turn it on, if you're so convinced that you can convince yourself that it will feel good. Or, for a less dangerous example, try bangin' a dude and making yourself like it. I bet you can't, because I'm sure I can't.

Because here's the thing: If homosexuality is a choice, then you should be able to make it. I guarantee you wouldn't be able to.

The definition of "marriage" changed quite a bit in just the last century, when interracial marriage first became legal. And by the way, marriage for "love" is a very modern concept; it didn't even exist five hundred years ago.

Again yer wrong.And I can prove it.
Show me a Gay who dislikes bein a Gay.
If they're born that way,than many would feel tortured and not
engage in what so highly displeases them.

Show me a Gay who dislikes bein a Gay.
I bet Alan Turing disliked his inclinations. He committed suicide because he was gay, driven to it because of his arrest, again for being gay.

I bet Alan Turing disliked his inclinations. He committed suicide because he was gay, driven to it because of his arrest, again for being gay.

I can't say for certain that a majority of Gays,have no
remorse over their life choice.
And that in some cases,Gays aren't pushed { by constant ridicule }
by schoolmates or neighbors into desperate acts.
But if yer tryin to prove that Gays may indeed feel tortured,
and DO NOT Choose that Lifestyle,than,by golly,what is preventing
them from giving it up.
Yes,the Devil may in some instances command someone to do
certain deeds.As in Possession.
But what Possess' a Gay,who doesn't like or want to be Gay,from
continuing on.I don't think it's as clear as someone who is a
compulsive eater,BTW.
But,it's yer duty to explain these things.
I can't make up yer mind as to what works or makes sense in
this debate.
I only know it works for me.
I'm tryin me best to be entirely lucid.

Your blow up doll, or your dog, are not on the same level as a human romantic relationship (regardless of sex). You know this, so don't spew such bullshit.

Pst. Hey pal, I have a secret for ya. Lots of marriages have no romantic relationship involved whatsoever. Guess what? They don't check for this when they pass out marriage licenses.

But just in case you decide to start checking for that after deciding who can and can't get married:

I promise you I love my blow up doll more than some people love their spouses. And who the fuck are you to determine my feelings for my blow up doll anyhow??!

Or, for a less dangerous example, try bangin' a dude and making yourself like it. I bet you can't, because I'm sure I can't.

Because here's the thing: If homosexuality is a choice, then you should be able to make it. I guarantee you wouldn't be able to.

See, I happen to think you're wrong. If I did poorly with women, I might go ahead and take something easier to get. I can see that happening. And I'm not even part of the ~10% that is homosexual. So if a heterosexual like me can picture it happening, and if other heterosexuals I know first hand actually DO have homosexual relationships, then it becomes quite conceivable that 10% of the population will go ahead and declare themselves as homosexuals.

Thank you, my friend. You have just illuminated what human sexuality is really about.

The fact is that anyone can stick their dick (or vagina) in whatever they want and convince themselves that it can and will feel good.



Sure, if that is what they are limited to. But whether that is what really turns them on is a different story, or are they only doing it because they have no other option? You are confusion sexual acts (which people have a choice over) with sexual attraction (which is what defines a person as gay or straight). A straight person has no choice about being attracted to the opposite sex, but they can choose whether they act on it.

See, I happen to think you're wrong. If I did poorly with women, I might go ahead and take something easier to get. I can see that happening. And I'm not even part of the ~10% that is homosexual. So if a heterosexual like me can picture it happening, and if other heterosexuals I know first hand actually DO have homosexual relationships, then it becomes quite conceivable that 10% of the population will go ahead and declare themselves as homosexuals.

Another example of your confusion. You might see yourself settling because its easier to get, but would you naturally enjoy it the way you do with women? If you say yes, then you are gay, or at least bi.

Whoa.There's a whole lot to quibble over in that vast assignment.
Men in Prison have certain choices.Lobster and Steak,is not
among them.

And women is not one of among them either.

Does a person who performs a gay act make them gay.
If it's entirely voluntary...than yes.

No. I might perform one for $1,000,000. But I wouldn't enjoy it, therefore...not gay.

Yer really screwed up there bud.
I don't think even bein On Jerry Springer,wood do mush good.
Yer obviously living in the lap of sheer obliviousness.

That response just tells me that you failed to refute anything I said. Way to go.

But if yer tryin to prove that Gays may indeed feel tortured,
and DO NOT Choose that Lifestyle,than,by golly,what is preventing
them from giving it up.

Are you kidding me? Is that a serious question? That makes no sense!!! If they DID NOT choose it, how in the world could they change it?

I think I see one of the major points of confusion in this argument. Kar and Foolie see homosexuality as the act, but Borg, Dna, Evak, et al define it by preference.

The definition of homosexuality is determined by the latter. One can perform homosexual acts and still be straight just as one can perform heterosexual sex and still be gay. It's about preference.

A second point of confusion I see in this debate in general is the difference between abnormal and unnatural. Homosexuality is abnormal, as it deviates from the majority population. However, that doesn't mean it's unnatural. Being left handed is abnormal. Having red hair is abnormal. Wearing sunscreen in January is abnormal. That doesn't mean that any of these things are unnatural or wrong. They're just different.

Finally, the idea of marriage has been far from consistent over the course of history. Until Henry VIII founded his own church, divorce was unheard of. Until recently, most marriages were arranged partnerships, closer to business transactions than the solidifying bond in a relationship. Polygamy has also been an accepted practice throughout history. Strike on the sacred institutions that are thousands of years old.

I bet Alan Turing disliked his inclinations. He committed suicide because he was gay, driven to it because of his arrest, again for being gay.
i've noticed that most of the "non-straight" persons i've met (anywhere) have serious mental problems. VP otoh, is one of the few i'm certain is sane regardless of his sexuality. then there's Evakian...he might not be "normal", but i don't think he's likely to off himself.

Homosexuality is abnormal, as it deviates from the majority population. However, that doesn't mean it's unnatural.

Right, same as having sex with blow-up dolls or fathers having sex with daughters or people that are polygamous. All of these things occur just as "naturally" (as you put it) as the other.

My point is that once you start stretching marriage, you have to start taking into account other groups of people. So where do you want to draw the next line? You want to base it on love? Or sex? Either way, you're going to have to take into account more people than just homosexuals.

My point is that once you start stretching marriage, you have to start taking into account other groups of people. So where do you want to draw the next line? You want to base it on love? Or sex? Either way, you're going to have to take into account more people than just homosexuals.

How do you think marriage should be defined? How far back do we go to find the "proper" definition? Do we limit marriages to members of the same race in the name of "racial purity", or were those "activist" judges right when they went against the majority of the voters and struck down the anti-miscegenation laws?

Are you kidding me? Is that a serious question? That makes no sense!!! If they DID NOT choose it, how in the world could they change it?

I really don't want to engage you in debate,because you haven't
the necessary tools.Yer blatantly dim-witted.
People are born with many,many things in life,they later
choose to change.Their hair color.Their teeth.
Maybe a nose job.
Even their skills.Someone may have been born with an innate
ability to be pleasant,and for some reason,due to relationships or
environ,turn mean or even criminal.Like a Good puppy gone bad,
under the wrong kind of owners.
Gays DO choose their Lifestyle.They are NOT Born gay.
Influences and contacts and curiosity in their upbringing,is what
can translate into that lifestyle.
Just like a Porn Star,isn't born a Porn star.Or a leading Man,born a
leading man in the movies.
I remember in the movie - The Hustler - George C. Scott havin
a small chat with Paul Newman { Fast Eddie } and Fast Eddie
was kinda down about beatin the Fats,all night then all day,then
eventually losin.Fats just gave himself a quick wash and went
about the bidness of winning.Fast Eddie said,well He drank as much as
me,so he can handle his booze better is all.
George C. Scott { Bert } said, " What do ya think,Fats was Born
knowin how to drink ? ".

How do you think marriage should be defined? How far back do we go to find the "proper" definition? Do we limit marriages to members of the same race in the name of "racial purity", or were those "activist" judges right when they went against the majority of the voters and struck down the anti-miscegenation laws?

Why on earth do you feel the need to Redefine the meaning
of the Institution of Marriage.?
I say,it's because Gays are Selfish.Which can be easily proven.
They obviously don't care a whit about Society.Just their own
Group.Gays are also bullies.They bully anyone,whether in a Parade
or at a Convention into their way of thinking.
Which isn't thinking at all.Just Pile-on Clique peer pressure.

Why on earth do you feel the need to Redefine the meaning
of the Institution of Marriage.?

What is the "meaning" of marriage that we wish to change?


I say,it's because Gays are Selfish.

Because we wish to share the same rights as everyone else?


Which can be easily proven.

Please do.


They obviously don't care a whit about Society.Just their own
Group.Gays are also bullies.They bully anyone,whether in a Parade
or at a Convention into their way of thinking.
Which isn't thinking at all.Just Pile-on Clique peer pressure.

Still waiting for the "proof"...

I really don't want to engage you in debate,because you haven't
the necessary tools.Yer blatantly dim-witted.


Spoken like a master of debate. :rolleyes:

I think I see one of the major points of confusion in this argument. Kar and Foolie see homosexuality as the act, but Borg, Dna, Evak, et al define it by preference.

The definition of homosexuality is determined by the latter. One can perform homosexual acts and still be straight just as one can perform heterosexual sex and still be gay. It's about preference.

A second point of confusion I see in this debate in general is the difference between abnormal and unnatural. Homosexuality is abnormal, as it deviates from the majority population. However, that doesn't mean it's unnatural. Being left handed is abnormal. Having red hair is abnormal. Wearing sunscreen in January is abnormal. That doesn't mean that any of these things are unnatural or wrong. They're just different.

Finally, the idea of marriage has been far from consistent over the course of history. Until Henry VIII founded his own church, divorce was unheard of. Until recently, most marriages were arranged partnerships, closer to business transactions than the solidifying bond in a relationship. Polygamy has also been an accepted practice throughout history. Strike on the sacred institutions that are thousands of years old.

First of all the true word for male Gays is Homosexual.
But since Gays have agenda's and the word { Homosexual } relies
to heavily on the undisputed fact that Homosexuality is strictly
defined as Sexual relations between males,not the More Political
Correct term { Gay } which merely means having a sexual attraction
of persons of the same sex.Sexual attraction does not literally mean
the act.Whereas sexual relations DOES.
Kinda like Bill Clinton using PC talk to try and wiggle out of the
notion that Fellatio is NOT Sex,because it doesn't necessarily
constitute sexual RELATIONS.
So I can see why Gays are so screwed up.Bill Clinton has helped
their screwed-up bent.

That makes no sense...at all. *Takes some aspirin*

Ow.

Disagreeing with someone's life choices and wanting those choices to be illegal are two different things.

The government making important rulings based on behavior is wrong too. Homosexuality is a behavior, being black or a woman is not. The only thing that sperates a homosexual from a hetero is how they behave. Plese do not bring up the slaves or women voting or interacial marriage, becasue none of that applies to homosexual behavior. People try to make them all one in the same, they are not.

Homosexuality is a behavior
We've established that it isn't.

We've established that it isn't.

Bent,proneness,partiality,bias,kink,leaning,pencha nt,liking,
propensity,tendency,weakness or Proclivity ARE
However.
" Just the facts Ma'am " ... Please.

We've established that it isn't.

so what makes someone gay then?

so what makes someone gay then?
Being attracted to people of the same sex. If you're a guy and you can't get enough dick, then you're gay. If you're a guy who can't get enough pussy and you are banged by Bubba when you spend some time in prison, then you are straight. Behavior does not dictate desire; in fact, it's generally the other way around.

Being attracted to people of the same sex. If you're a guy and you can't get enough dick, then you're gay. If you're a guy who can't get enough pussy and you are banged by Bubba when you spend some time in prison, then you are straight. Behavior does not dictate desire; in fact, it's generally the other way around.

A person can desire stuff all day long.That means nothing.
But acting on that desire is quite another thing.
I can desire a Yacht or a Playboy bunny,all day long.
I can be attracted to Mary Jane Rottencrotch,all thru
Junior high.That means nothing.However, as soon as I date or
get to first base,then that means something.
Sexual Relations.
NOT
Sexual Attraction.

Being attracted to people of the same sex. If you're a guy and you can't get enough dick, then you're gay. If you're a guy who can't get enough pussy and you are banged by Bubba when you spend some time in prison, then you are straight. Behavior does not dictate desire; in fact, it's generally the other way around.
Exactly. If homosexuality is simply a behavior, does that mean that virgins can't be gay?

what seperates a straight person froma gay person? What is the difference? It is how they behave.

what seperates a straight person froma gay person? What is the difference? It is how they behave.
If homosexuality is a behavior, then so is heterosexuality.

The difference is who they're attracted to.

If homosexuality is a behavior, then so is heterosexuality.

The difference is who they're attracted to.

Of course it's a behavior.So is having a good chuckle.
The word behavior does not define.There's good and bad behavior.
On their Best Bahavior.On their worst behavior.
I really don't TinK Miss Smarty was on her worst behavior when
she got banned.
Smarty wasn't at her best behavior,either.
Is that any better.

again we are back to the idea that no one is allowed to marry someone of the same sex, so no one is denied any rights. Marriage itself is not a right anyway. Pagan has tried to convince me that that is wrong but I do not agree. I do not buy the argument that gay marriage is in the same line as racism, sexism or inter racial marriage bans either. These are all banned on things that are out of a persons control, and I do not agree people are born gay. If they are born gay then they have an abnormality as nature is not built for gays. Sounds harsh but that is how it is. For the record, my disclaimer: I have ill will towards gay people and wish them no harm or bad feelings. What they do is their own buisness, just as what I do is mine.

again we are back to the idea that no one is allowed to marry someone of the same sex, so no one is denied any rights.

An idea that hasn't held up well in the courts.


Marriage itself is not a right anyway. Pagan has tried to convince me that that is wrong but I do not agree.

That's fine, but the Supreme Court would disagree with you. They have ruled in the past that marriage is a fundamental right of man, and have ruled that even condemned murderers have a right to marry.


I do not buy the argument that gay marriage is in the same line as racism, sexism or inter racial marriage bans either. These are all banned on things that are out of a persons control, and I do not agree people are born gay.

On what do you base your belief that gays are not born that way?


If they are born gay then they have an abnormality as nature is not built for gays. Sounds harsh but that is how it is.

It is that way because you say it is?


For the record, my disclaimer: I have ill will towards gay people and wish them no harm or bad feelings. What they do is their own buisness, just as what I do is mine.

Ok...so how is two gays getting married your business?

An idea that hasn't held up well in the courts.

In liberal courts.


That's fine, but the Supreme Court would disagree with you. They have ruled in the past that marriage is a fundamental right of man, and have ruled that even condemned murderers have a right to marry.


A fundamental right of man, not man and man.


On what do you base your belief that gays are not born that way?

Becuase there are no gay 9 year olds who are in love with other little boys.


It is that way because you say it is?
No that is what nature says. Homosexuality is bad for species. If every member of a species were homosexual the species would die, not so if they were all heterosexual.



Ok...so how is two gays getting married your business?
I believe in the slippery slope. Just look at how the left has twisted the constitution to make it say what they want it to. I doubt the founding fathers had abortion and homosexual marriage in thier minds when they wrote to document, yet ehre it is. It wont stop at gay marriage. All it takes is a sympathetic judge to see things in it he wants to see in it, as happened in CA. I understand you do not believe it is a slippery slope, but I see no reason other deviants will not take this case as precedent and ask for thier lifestyles to be normalized.

In liberal courts.

Liberal or conservative, do you think allowing interracial marriage was a wrong decision?


A fundamental right of man, not man and man.

Read the rulings.


Becuase there are no gay 9 year olds who are in love with other little boys.

Actually, I can assure you there are.


No that is what nature says. Homosexuality is bad for species. If every member of a species were homosexual the species would die, not so if they were all heterosexual.

Nature doesn't make things that are "good" and "bad", those are man-made concepts.


I believe in the slippery slope. Just look at how the left has twisted the constitution to make it say what they want it to. I doubt the founding fathers had abortion and homosexual marriage in thier minds when they wrote to document, yet ehre it is. It wont stop at gay marriage. All it takes is a sympathetic judge to see things in it he wants to see in it, as happened in CA. I understand you do not believe it is a slippery slope, but I see no reason other deviants will not take this case as precedent and ask for thier lifestyles to be normalized.

I don't buy the whole slippery slope argument because if we accept that it's a good reason to avoid changing the law, we'd still put people in jail for marrying outside their race.

Liberal or conservative, do you think allowing interracial marriage was a wrong decision?

No it is not, but it is not the same as homosexual marriage. If a black man and a white woman marrying are the same as two guys getting married then a man marrying his dog are the same as two men marrying. Some things just are not the same as others no matter how you try and equate them. Apples and oranges dude.

Nature doesn't make things that are "good" and "bad", those are man-made concepts.

Fine, lets use the word sustainable. All life is about sustaining itself. Sure, an entirely homosexual species may not be "bad", but it wont last long, and that is bad.



I don't buy the whole slippery slope argument because if we accept that it's a good reason to avoid changing the law, we'd still put people in jail for marrying outside their race.

Changing the law isnt always a good thing. And enough with the interracial marriage comparison, it is way out of whack.

No it is not, but it is not the same as homosexual marriage.

Exactly the same? No, but the similarity is striking.


If a black man and a white woman marrying are the same as two guys getting married then a man marrying his dog are the same as two men marrying.

It amazes me that you'd bring an animal into a discussion about marriage and not see the faulty logic.


Some things just are not the same as others no matter how you try and equate them. Apples and oranges dude.

We're discussing marriage between two consenting human adults...sounds pretty similar to me.


Changing the law isnt always a good thing.

I can agree with that.


And enough with the interracial marriage comparison, it is way out of whack.

I can understand why you'd like that to be true, but the courts don't agree.

Vile's point is that people used the exact same arguments when arguing against interracial marriage. "If no one can marry outside their race, then the law is fair." Even though this law was evenly applied across all races, the courts eventually ruled that the law was unconstitutional because it denied the right of marriage between two consenting adults based on this arbitrary difference.

They even used naturalistic arguments to oppose interracial marriages by pointing to how in the natural world like reproduces with like, and that the law should enforce that in human behavior. This argument was also disregarded.

While the arguments against gay marriage are not exactly the same, there's a common thread.

Finally, Trav, again, just because something is abnormal, doesn't mean it is unnatural or wrong. It's just different.