Apparently there are currently initiatives aiming to lower the drinking age in 7 states (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-03-20-drinkingage_N.htm). What do you all think of this?

I would definitely support allowing 18-20 year olds who are in the military to buy liquor. I think that one's a no-brainer. I would not support a full-on lowering of the drinking age to 18 or 19, but the article I liked to provides a few good ideas. For example:
An initiative in the works in South Dakota would allow all 19- and 20-year-olds to buy low-alcohol beer.

Vermont's legislature is considering a task force to study the issue. A Minnesota bill would allow anyone 18 and older to buy alcohol in bars or restaurants, but not in liquor stores until they're 21.

"There's a public interest in reopening this debate … and the idea is picking up steam" says John McCardell, a former president of Vermont's Middlebury College who founded Choose Responsibility. The non-profit group supports allowing 18- to 20-year-olds to drink legally after they complete an alcohol education program.
I would say that letting people under 21 buy beer and wine, but not liquor, seems like a reasonable idea, as does allowing them to drink in restaurants. I also definitely think that an alcohol education program would be a good step for any move towards lowering the drinking age.

You'd allow 18-20 year old military personnel to by booze but not 18-20 year old year civilians?

Why is that??

You'd allow 18-20 year old military personnel to by booze but not 18-20 year old year civilians?

Why is that??
because 18-20 y/o civilians still have frequent contact with the under 18 crowd.

because 18-20 y/o civilians still have frequent contact with the under 18 crowd.

That makes very little sense and someone would call that descriminatory, as would I.

The question was for DF but thanks for yer input even tho it's ridiculous input. :D

That makes very little sense and someone would call that descriminatory, as would I.

The question was for DF but thanks for yer input even tho it's ridiculous input. :D
that's the rationale for the drinking age being 21 in the 1st place.:lolhit:

they know it's going to filter down, they're just trying to keep it out of the hands of high school kids.

you could argue anything that has an age tacked onto it is discriminatory, but those limits are there for a reason.

that's the rationale for the drinking age being 21 in the 1st place.:lolhit:

they know it's going to filter down, they're just trying to keep it out of the hands of high school kids.

you could argue anything that has an age tacked onto it is discriminatory, but those limits are there for a reason.

Then why in some states is the legal drinking age 19? Why not 21 for all states or 19 for all states?

I don't think the military shouldn't be bypassed by this law. Or maybe that's an incentive for more people to join the military, ya think?

ARF ARF!

Then why in some states is the legal drinking age 19? Why not 21 for all states or 19 for all states?

I don't think the military shouldn't be bypassed by this law. Or maybe that's an incentive for more people to join the military, ya think?

ARF ARF!
where is it still 19? the Feds threatened to hold back highway funds in the 80s to states with a drinking age under 21, and as i recall, all complied.

I say lower the age to 13.
That way, all the little underage twirps can get shitfaced, and ride their skateboards and bicycles into trees.
That should lower gang activity too

where is it still 19? the Feds threatened to hold back highway funds in the 80s to states with a drinking age under 21, and as i recall, all complied.

It was in Arizona but that was some years back. Oh wait, maybe it was Nevada. Hell I dunno but it was one of those two states. I assumed it was still in affect but it isn't ??? What the shit?

I say lower the age to 13.
That way, all the little underage twirps can get shitfaced, and ride their skateboards and bicycles into trees.
That should lower gang activity too

I agree wholeheartedly.

:thumbs:

Then why in some states is the legal drinking age 19? Why not 21 for all states or 19 for all states?
It's 21 for all states.
I would not support a full-on lowering of the drinking age to 18 or 19
Why not? You can smoke at 18, vote at 18, operate a one-ton piece of potentially deadly machinery at 16, why not ingest ethanol?

Sure, lower the age. At the same time, take all criminal penalties relating to the possession of less than 4 ounces of marijuana off the table (http://www.washingtonwatch.com/bills/show/110_HR_5843.html)as well. Let individuals determine for themselves which adult intoxicant they choose to use responsibly without being concerned the local constable might decide to crash the party.

Why not? You can smoke at 18, vote at 18, operate a one-ton piece of potentially deadly machinery at 16, why not ingest ethanol?
I would not be opposed to making the legal age for all of those 21, although I think 18 or 19 is the most reasonable age for all. And they SHOULD all be the same age, you're right.

Why not? You can smoke at 18, vote at 18, operate a one-ton piece of potentially deadly machinery at 16, why not ingest ethanol?I think they should raise the age to 25, personally. :D

They can make a case about having the drinking age different from smoking because of the hazard of impaired thought processes being a danger to others. Especially when operating a one-ton piece of potentially deadly machinery.

It's 21 for all states.

Why not? You can smoke at 18, vote at 18, operate a one-ton piece of potentially deadly machinery at 16, why not ingest ethanol?
it's that potentially deadly piece of machinery that's the kicker. back when a horse was the fastest way to get around that 16 y/o could get a hold of, there was no drinking age. 6,000 teens go out for ride every year and come back in a body bag, you want to double that?

why not just transpose those and hold back DLs until 21? driving has more positives for it than killing brain cells.

I think the driving age should be 18, no younger. Get a learner's permit at 17 and have it for 12 months before you can get your license.

They can make a case about having the drinking age different from smoking because of the hazard of impaired thought processes being a danger to others. Especially when operating a one-ton piece of potentially deadly machinery.
DUI is already illegal.
I think the driving age should be 18, no younger. Get a learner's permit at 17 and have it for 12 months before you can get your license.
That'd be fine by me, except for the fact that 16 year olds can also have jobs. Making mumsy and daddy dearest ferry around their teenagers to/from McDonald's four or five times a week would be a bit burdensome.

DUI is already illegal.
there's easy to be illegal, then there's not so easy to be illegal.

which would you want for your child? kids make mistakes. the harder it is for them to make a mistake, the better off they are.

which would you want for your child? kids make mistakes. the harder it is for them to make a mistake, the better off they are.
The government is not a surrogate parent, and laws aren't passed because it's "what parents want for their children".

That'd be fine by me, except for the fact that 16 year olds can also have jobs. Making mumsy and daddy dearest ferry around their teenagers to/from McDonald's four or five times a week would be a bit burdensome.
My parents drive me to work, and I'm 18 years old. And anyways, no one said having a job was a right, especially not for a 16 year old.

The government is not a surrogate parent, and laws aren't passed because it's "what parents want for their children".
Using that line of logic, why don't we just make the legal driving age 12? Why don't we not have driver's licenses at all? After all, the government isn't a surrogate parent, so we should let actual parents decide whether their 8 year old is ready to drive, right?

The government is not a surrogate parent, and laws aren't passed because it's "what parents want for their children".
remember that when you get popped in a seat belt enforcement zone.

There is always the argument that you can be 18 and vote, die for your country, and buy porno, but you can drink. Trust me I hear it a lot being in the military. I would have no problems lowering the drinking age to 18 across the board. That's just me though.

My parents drive me to work, and I'm 18 years old. And anyways, no one said having a job was a right, especially not for a 16 year old.
Well, no, but I think a 16 year old having a job is a good thing.
Using that line of logic, why don't we just make the legal driving age 12? Why don't we not have driver's licenses at all? After all, the government isn't a surrogate parent, so we should let actual parents decide whether their 8 year old is ready to drive, right?
That's a straw man and you know it. The law regarding driver licenses is based on ability, primarily, as well it should be.
remember that when you get popped in a seat belt enforcement zone.
I think laws requiring seat belt use are equally nanny state-ish, but I have never driven (or ridden in a car) without wearing my seat belt. Not using one is just dumb.

I think laws requiring seat belt use are equally nanny state-ish, but I have never driven (or ridden in a car) without wearing my seat belt. Not using one is just dumb.
i do too, and wouldn't, but you can't deny it has saved lives. so has raising the drinking age to 21.

somtimes Big Brother does know what's best for you.

i do too, and wouldn't, but you can't deny it has saved lives. so has raising the drinking age to 21.

somtimes Big Brother does know what's best for you.

Sometimes it does. More frequently it doesn't. Regardless, there are a lot of things that would make us safer. We could wear car helmets. We could ban motorcycles. We could ban climbing, cycling, skateboards, and skydiving. I say once you hit 18, you should be able to make those decisions, however wrong they might be, for yourself.

Along those lines, I say we make the drinking age 18, but do it across all states to avoid the sort of DUI carnage we use to get. Back before I was old enough to drive, the 18 year olds from Illinois would drive into my hometown and wrap themselves around telephone poles every weekend.

That's a straw man and you know it. The law regarding driver licenses is based on ability, primarily, as well it should be.
And I think that 18 year olds are a lot more capable of making mature and rational decisions while driving than 16 year olds. What's the difference between making the driving age 18 instead of 16 and making it 16 instead of, say, 14?

I think the drinking age being 21 has much to do with the functions of the human brain, and being able to think rationally. Teen-agers are irrational on the whole.. they are overly emotional, take more risks, and are less stable. This is based on human body functions and the development of the hypothalmus. If you have 18 year olds drinking.. there would be more risk, and more danger.... I'm not saying EVERY teen-ager is a wreck, but science says they are not fully developed.

Well if the punishment were harsh enough, i would advocate no age limit for anyone who can pass a comprehensive driving and eye test.

However, I think penalties should be much more severe than the handslaps they have historically given out for DWI. Two offenses should be loss of permit for life, imo.

remember that when you get popped in a seat belt enforcement zone.

I moved from a state that did not have a passenger seal belt law to a state that does. I got popped 5 times in my first year in texas. Judge told me one more time and I was going to jail for 6 months.

I agree with DF. Eighteen year olds think they are fully mature. Hell, sixteen year olds think they are fully mature. The problem is, they aren't. As Decka says, they are still growing emotionally. All too often they take unecessary risk and adding alcohol to the mix will only increase that. If it was only themselves they were placing in danger that would be one thing but they would be placing the llives of others in danger.

The drinking age should remain twenty one and the age to get a driver's license should be increased. There should also be graduated licenses. Younger drivers should be allowed to drive only to school or work and not allowed to drive after sun down. there should also be zero tolerance for traffic violations for younger drivers. The same gradiation should be applied to drinking. Younger people should be allowed to drink beer and wine and not hard liquor.

Well, no, but I think a 16 year old having a job is a good thing..

This I agree with totally. What i see happening too much is these kids who have mommy and daddy wipe their asses until they go to college,they finish college and walk into a nice 50k a year job.

I think every 16 year old kid should wash cars,flip burgers or wait tables. I know at times working can mess with school work,but there is no excuse for summer,or weekend jobs.

I feel if more younger kids work these McJobs,we will see less irate adults yelling at clerks in stores and such. They will develop a sense of what it is like to be in that position.

I moved from a state that did not have a passenger seal belt law to a state that does. I got popped 5 times in my first year in texas. Judge told me one more time and I was going to jail for 6 months.
they don't screw around in the lone star. fyi-click it or ticket is the law from coast to coast (http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/portal/site/nhtsa/menuitem.ce4a601cdfe97fc239d17110cba046a0/) now.

And I think that 18 year olds are a lot more capable of making mature and rational decisions while driving than 16 year olds. What's the difference between making the driving age 18 instead of 16 and making it 16 instead of, say, 14?

The driving age here is 15. It seems I am always reading about some kid getting killed or causing a horrible accident.
The main highway here is crazy, ppl stopping right in the flow of traffic to turn across two lanes and switch lanes without signaling.

I'd gladly drive my kid to work when it's time and wait til he's 18 just to guarantee he can handle it.

I feel if more younger kids work these McJobs,we will see less irate adults yelling at clerks in stores and such. They will develop a sense of what it is like to be in that position.
You bet your ass. I've worked retail before, and partially because of this, I always show the cashier, waiter, etc. plenty of respect and patience. Those jobs may be "easy" in the sense that they don't require a lot of training or education, but they are certainly not any fun.

I moved from a state that did not have a passenger seal belt law to a state that does. I got popped 5 times in my first year in texas. Judge told me one more time and I was going to jail for 6 months.

That's brilliant! You will be safe or we'll put you in an unsafe environment with a bunch of criminals. Hey, we're just doing what's best for you! And some of you people are cool with this?

At least in Ohio seat belt laws started out as a secondary offense - one that they would just hit you with if they happened to pull you over for something else. Now it's a primary offense and of course the fines have gone up. And over in New York or New Jersey (can't remember which one) they have at times put cops on overpasses with night vision goggles looking for offenders. It's unreal.

Originally Posted by LionelHutz
And over in New York or New Jersey (can't remember which one) they have at times put cops on overpasses with night vision goggles looking for offenders. It's unreal.
...and here in the midwest, we have "Click It or Ticket" about twice a year. It's ok, Nebraska/Iowa technology is always two years behind everyone else.

you might as well lower it on all counts. if someone wants to drink, they are going to get it. one way or another. it's like thinking that making marijuana illegal will stop it from being used.

This I agree with totally. What i see happening too much is these kids who have mommy and daddy wipe their asses until they go to college,they finish college and walk into a nice 50k a year job.

I think every 16 year old kid should wash cars,flip burgers or wait tables. I know at times working can mess with school work,but there is no excuse for summer,or weekend jobs.

I feel if more younger kids work these McJobs,we will see less irate adults yelling at clerks in stores and such. They will develop a sense of what it is like to be in that position.


I never worked in school or college but no one wiped my ass. Dayum I was deprived!!

You bet your ass. I've worked retail before, and partially because of this, I always show the cashier, waiter, etc. plenty of respect and patience. Those jobs may be "easy" in the sense that they don't require a lot of training or education, but they are certainly not any fun.
Oddly enough, I've always shown respect to cashiers and waiters. I didn't need to do their job to know that it might not always be fun to deal with the people they deal with.

(By the way, I am now a waitress and I would describe it as both easy and fun... And I make good money too. Think about this: if I was a cashier at, say, the grocery store, I would make like $7 an hour. As a waitress, my tips & wages combined add up to $10-$11 an hour.)

You bet your ass. I've worked retail before, and partially because of this, I always show the cashier, waiter, etc. plenty of respect and patience. Those jobs may be "easy" in the sense that they don't require a lot of training or education, but they are certainly not any fun.

Preach it Borg... i definitely did my time in retail... in some really stuck up white class neighborhoods. I could have my order screwed up,given incorrect change,or even have bizarre things happening and i am totally cool. i know what these people are going through and i definitely dont present an attitude that makes it worse.

they don't screw around in the lone star. fyi-click it or ticket is the law from coast to coast (http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/portal/site/nhtsa/menuitem.ce4a601cdfe97fc239d17110cba046a0/) now.

Really? for the passenger? Wow... I always blamed my fines on hard ass Texas. Maybe i was destined to shell out thousands (i think the total for all the tickets for the seatbelt was in the ball park of 3000,definitely over 2500) no matter where I lived once it went national.

Yeah mike lone star dont play. I know a guy who was driving a pick up truck and had some trash fly out of the bed while driving and was stopped and given a 1500 fine for littering. We have town cops, county cops,hwy patrol,sheriffs,constables,state police,metro police,and i think there are still Texas rangers... and all of them can give you for any small thing. I swear they have contests on what department can write those most insane tickets.
two new laws in effect in Houston city limits.. If you are caught smoking at a bus stop... 500 fine.... and if your vehicle brakes down on the streets ,you have 15 minutes to get it off the road or it can be towed by any of the hundreds of tow trucks for a flat rate of 125 bucks.... the tow trucks are grouped and put in 'territories'... they patrol their area's 24/7..
Doest matter if you have AAA,or some other deal... once the two truck comes on you... you have 15 minutes.. if you fail to comply they call the police and the police enforce it.

Fuck that. *adds Texas to the list of places I will avoid driving to, much less living there*

Really? for the passenger?
everbody in the front seat, all kids in the car under 16 (or 18).

as of june 11 all kids under 4'9 and 9 y/o in a booster seat.

as of june 11 all kids under 4'9 and 9 y/o in a booster seat.
That is bullshit. I was sitting in the front passenger seat, without any booster seat bullshit, when I was five and possibly before that. I appear to be just fine.

Fuck that. *adds Texas to the list of places I will avoid driving to, much less living there*
I-10 thru TX is one of the nicest drives i ever had. 800+ miles, swamp on one end, desert on the other, with prairie and mountains inbetween.:@@:

That is bullshit. I was sitting in the front passenger seat, without any booster seat bullshit, when I was five and possibly before that. I appear to be just fine.
did you have an air bag go off in your face? were you ever in a car accident? seat belts and their related accessories do save lives, but you need to be in an accident for them to work:drive:

did you have an air bag go off in your face? lives, but you need to be in an accident for them to work:drive:

well i have been in multiple accidents and had many airbags go off in my face,and believe me it is not some soft pillow you see those crash test dummy's hit on the commercial. it is like getting pegged with a basketball at 2 feet away.... I'll take my chances with a seat belt and the windshield. i have attempted to pull fuses in my car to disable the air bag!

well i have been in multiple accidents and had many airbags go off in my face,and believe me it is not some soft pillow you see those crash test dummy's hit on the commercial. it is like getting pegged with a basketball at 2 feet away.... I'll take my chances with a seat belt and the windshield. i have attempted to pull fuses in my car to disable the air bag!
you're also not 4'9" and under. restraint devices are made for average ppl...that's why the kids need a booster seat. smaller than average ppl face a real danger from the very devices that are there to protect average ppl.

FYI-i've had an air bag go off too, but i was already out cold from smacking the door header. when my Dodge decided it wanted to audition for the Dukes of Hazard last July, the one thing i was thinking when it was airborne was "please don't let the air bag go off-they're $1300 to replace". the only safe, legal, and practical way to remove an air bag is to deploy it. oddly, you can buy a replacement cover w/o the airbag, but i would suggest having anyone you sell it to in the future (or even loan the car to) sign a release saying that they know the air bag is missing.

Underage drinking in Ireland is a massive problem.

The legal age to buy alcohal is 18, for off licences and bars-it simply doesnt work.

Any weekend nite kids roam around intoxicated, some Ive seen as young as
8-9 at 2 or 3 oclock in the morning, bluttered.

These kids get their booze from bigger kids, some using false IDs obtained online, underage drinking and crime go hand in hand, along with underage sex.

The booze culture of Ireland is a sad and somewhat ignored fact :(

The booze culture of Ireland is a sad and somewhat ignored fact :(
Ignored by who? Over here we all know the Irish are a bunch of drunks. :lolhit:

Ignored by who? Over here we all know the Irish are a bunch of drunks. :lolhit:

'Ignored by who'. Well theres parts of Dublin-Belfast-Cork and Limerick I can think of where kids roam the streets all nite at weekends, drunk, committing crime, doing drugs. I wouldnt say thats theres 'no go' areas for the PSNI or the Guards, more like areas that more serious crime takes priority.

Suicide among teenagers in Ireland is the highest in Western Europe.

Ignored by the parents most Id say.

More serious crime takes priority... This is very true here as well, especially in the inner city. Out in the suburbs and the small towns the cops crack down on misbehaving young people, but in the city the police are over taxed by the larger crimes.

This is true I understand. Tho Ive seen cop cars drive past kids standing with
carry-outs many a time.

On warm sunny days, which are in short supply here, families have stopped going to public parks with their children because gangs of teenagers drinking have taken over.

Wow, I don't think it's gotten quite that bad here. I suppose it depends on what park you go to, but even in my old neighborhood (that was pretty bad), you still saw kids at the park during the day. Nighttime was when the drunk teenagers and drug dealers took over. :p