FUTURE AMERICA?

You awake each day to the Muslim muezzin call to prayer from the neighborhood mosque - as millions of Europeans already do.

Liberals espouse “diversity is our strength” as Islamic enforcers cruise the cities in their quest to shutter, or harass any establishment that is contrary to Islamic “sharia” Law. Guns are confiscated and stiff penalties are dished out to citizens who defy the new anti-gun laws. Women are told to cover their hair and face when in public.

You are cautious about attending public events or being part of any large crowd as these are the favorite targets of suicide bombers in their quest to exhibit violence against non-Muslims who resist conversion or surrender. Dissent has been stifled since the Fairness Doctrine was reinstated.

A new Senator is sworn in, one of several Senators that have recently converted to the Muslim faith. Muslim populated districts are increasingly changing the political landscape by sending more electees to Congress.

A recent ruling from the Supreme Court states sharia law does not violate the “separation of church and state.” This ruling paves the way for Islamic controlled municipalities to govern every aspect of religious, political, and personal life of the local populace-- [amounting to a form of totalitarianism analogous to Communism].

The Hollywood Left gives up gay rights in favor of the much safer charms of polygamy.

As Mark Steyn [author of the New York Times bestseller “America Alone”] puts it, "The future belongs to the fecund and the confident. And the Islamists are both, while the West -- wedded to a multiculturalism that undercuts its own confidence, a welfare state that nudges it toward sloth and self-indulgence, and a childlessness that consigns it to oblivion -- is looking ever more like the ruins of a civilization."

If you think this can't happen, you haven't been paying attention to what’s been happening in Europe and the UK. Europe is almost certainly a goner, as Mark Steyn laments in his book, but America can still survive, prosper, and defend its freedom only if it continues to believe in itself, in the sturdier virtues of self-reliance (not government), in the centrality of family, and in the conviction that our country really is the world's last best hope.

The Muslims have a twenty year goal to conquer the West. They have only a short 13 years remaining until victory, as their quest started in 2000.

Wake up America before it is too late!


Watch this video. (http://www.usawakeup.org/) Very scary stuff. Refusal to believe it COULD happen will no doubt be the downfall of America.

Refusal to believe it COULD happen will no doubt be the downfall of America.
Or the downfall of self-righteous Chicken Littles.

This thread makes my intellect writhe in agony.

FUTURE AMERICA?

You awake each day to the Muslim muezzin call to prayer from the neighborhood mosque - as millions of Europeans already do.

Liberals espouse “diversity is our strength” as Islamic enforcers cruise the cities in their quest to shutter, or harass any establishment that is contrary to Islamic “sharia” Law. Guns are confiscated and stiff penalties are dished out to citizens who defy the new anti-gun laws. Women are told to cover their hair and face when in public.

You are cautious about attending public events or being part of any large crowd as these are the favorite targets of suicide bombers in their quest to exhibit violence against non-Muslims who resist conversion or surrender. Dissent has been stifled since the Fairness Doctrine was reinstated.

A new Senator is sworn in, one of several Senators that have recently converted to the Muslim faith. Muslim populated districts are increasingly changing the political landscape by sending more electees to Congress.

A recent ruling from the Supreme Court states sharia law does not violate the “separation of church and state.” This ruling paves the way for Islamic controlled municipalities to govern every aspect of religious, political, and personal life of the local populace-- [amounting to a form of totalitarianism analogous to Communism].

The Hollywood Left gives up gay rights in favor of the much safer charms of polygamy.

As Mark Steyn [author of the New York Times bestseller “America Alone”] puts it, "The future belongs to the fecund and the confident. And the Islamists are both, while the West -- wedded to a multiculturalism that undercuts its own confidence, a welfare state that nudges it toward sloth and self-indulgence, and a childlessness that consigns it to oblivion -- is looking ever more like the ruins of a civilization."

If you think this can't happen, you haven't been paying attention to what’s been happening in Europe and the UK. Europe is almost certainly a goner, as Mark Steyn laments in his book, but America can still survive, prosper, and defend its freedom only if it continues to believe in itself, in the sturdier virtues of self-reliance (not government), in the centrality of family, and in the conviction that our country really is the world's last best hope.

The Muslims have a twenty year goal to conquer the West. They have only a short 13 years remaining until victory, as their quest started in 2000.

Wake up America before it is too late!


Watch this video. (http://www.usawakeup.org/) Very scary stuff. Refusal to believe it COULD happen will no doubt be the downfall of America.

I can't disagree with you on this one. They are already trying to bring Sharia law to UK. We have to make sure that our political system stands strong against this and any extremism (even home grown extremism like prayers in school, 10 commandments in court houses, etc.)

However, by bombing a country like Iraq and threatening to bomb Iran (hillary AND McCain) is just unifying these people. I've been to Saudi Arabia recently and they are praying that the US invades Iran so they can team up with Iran to help their Muslim brothers to teach the US a lesson. It'll just become a tit for tat for the next 100 years. Gandhi said "violence begets violence!".

This thread makes my intellect writhe in agony.

Be sure and remember to tell that to your grandchildren... I'm sure they'll understand.

Or the downfall of self-righteous Chicken Littles.

Spot on!

This thread makes my intellect writhe in agony.

:lolhit: :D :thumbs:

This is scary stuff. And to think this will be happening while China invades the mainland US, Mexicans try to regain the Southwest, and our cities are devastated by hurricanes caused by global warming...

Here's a cup, Jester. To catch the sarcasm that's dripping from your post.:D

This is scary stuff. And to think this will be happening while China invades the mainland US, Mexicans try to regain the Southwest, and our cities are devastated by hurricanes caused by global warming...
be more worried about China'ssub bases (http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?id=0dd15203-7d63-47dd-98ee-35b15202a683&&Headline=China+evades+queries+on+submarine+base). that is La Raza's stated goal (http://www.mayorno.com/WhoIsMecha.html), and only if ppl are still buying Al Gore's BS (http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2008/05/gores_myanmar_words_as_inoppor.html).

Is that you in your avatar, Imp??? :eek:

I've been to Saudi Arabia recently and they are praying that the US invades Iran so they can team up with Iran to help their Muslim brothers to teach the US a lesson. It'll just become a tit for tat for the next 100 years. Gandhi said "violence begets violence!".
Wow! We're fucked! C'mon, man...:rolleyes:

You wanna know when the day of reckoning will rear it's ugly head? When we no longer need their oil (and contrary to popular belief, that day isn't far off). When it comes, I'll gladly watch them all kill each other from the confines on my living room on a 60" hi-def, flat screen TV while I eat popcorn and laugh. When they can't feed themselves anymore, they'll take to genocide like a fish to water.

I disagree. I think that'll finally be the day when they clean up their act and learn how to play nicely. Power vacuums beget power struggles, and once the vacuum's gone, the struggle will be too. History hasn't been too kind to nations with valuable natural resources but without the technology to exploit it themselves.

I think that'll finally be the day when they clean up their act and learn how to play nicely.
You're correct - that's all they really need to do.
Power vacuums beget power struggles, and once the vacuum's gone, the struggle will be too. History hasn't been too kind to nations with valuable natural resources but without the technology to exploit it themselves.
That's undeniably true.

Is that you in your avatar, Imp??? :eek:
Hehe... that's exactly what I was wondering. :)

Yeah, and if it is, then you can give her a cup, uh....to catch somethin' else. :D

Yeah, and if it is, then you can give her a cup, uh....to catch somethin' else. :D

You're a sick man, Prae...that's why I love you ;)

:lolhit: :D

Refusal to believe it COULD happen will no doubt be the downfall of America.

Perhaps our downfall will be that we fail to realize that fear-mongering is the real enemy.

Perhaps our downfall will be that we fail to realize that fear-mongering is the real enemy.
You see, this is what I don't get - on one hand, you tell us that we're reaping what we've sown as a result of our own business practices (which WON’T change if Obama takes office), and then, OTOH, you tell us not to be afraid of an attack. So which is it, Vile?

Perhaps our downfall will be that we fail to realize that fear-mongering is the real enemy.
"nothing to fear but fear itself", eh? FDR left out the Nazis and Imperial Japan.

The extreme right Christian fundamentalist will be the demise of the US of A.

They are so far from reality, yet wield such power, the whole country will implode because of it.

You have been warned.

The extreme right Christian fundamentalist will be the demise of the US of A.

They are so far from reality, yet wield such power, the whole country will implode because of it.

You have been warned.

Yes, but there are indeed enough sane people who have fought these fundies and have kept them at bay. The fundies just want to attack/change the very basis of what is America.

Perhaps our downfall will be that we fail to realize that fear-mongering is the real enemy.

Fear-mongering is actually useful at times to shake some people out of their complacency. In today's world, 'nothing bad can ever happen to us' is a much more dangerous attitude than remaining viligant to the fact that there are at least a few million people on this planet who would like to see the U.S. crumble.

While you're feeling all safe & secure, Vile... I hope you'll at least remember that many brave Americans shed blood, sweat and tears (not to mention their lives) to make sure you're able to enjoy the luxury of not looking over your shoulder every day. We didn't get to this point by accident, you know? And whether you want to believe it or not, it could all change in a heartbeat.

SMW

Yes, but there are indeed enough sane people who have fought these fundies and have kept them at bay. The fundies just want to attack/change the very basis of what is America.

I hope your right. It only takes enough of them to get into positions of power,
then its all over.

The extreme right Christian fundamentalist will be the demise of the US of A.

They are so far from reality, yet wield such power, the whole country will implode because of it.

You have been warned.

Yeah, I'm skerred they'll be knocking down Miss Frannie's door any day now!

:lolhit:

(What a bunch of bologna, Paul. For a smart person, you sure say some dumb things sometimes.)

Whats dumb about it. The extremeist Christians are a dangerous bunch.

Between them and Muslim extremeists they block any chance of a peaceful settlement between Israel and Palestinians, which has the potential of sucking in all the major powers.

Whats dumb about it. The extremeist Christians are a dangerous bunch.

Between them and Muslim extremeists they block any chance of a peaceful settlement between Israel and Palestinians, which has the potential of sucking in all the major powers.
you're only seeing what makes the world news, if you were seeing those stories in the local news, and what's next to it, you'd have a different perspective. Americans have bigger problems then a couple of whack jobs that go overboard to make a point.

Whats dumb about it. The extremeist Christians are a dangerous bunch.

Between them and Muslim extremeists they block any chance of a peaceful settlement between Israel and Palestinians, which has the potential of sucking in all the major powers.

Mike's right about the world news, Paul. I'm not even sure what defines an extremeist Christian in the U.S. -- but it definitely wouldn't be the word 'dangerous.'

I understand you're talking about extremeists in another part of the world, but you really shouldn't lump us all into one category. While religious fanatics like the Rev. Wright certainly exist here... and enjoy a loyal following... their only real weapon is their mouth. Since we're big on 'live & let live' in America, those of us who don't approve of their rantings have no problem at all ignoring them.

Just for grins, I googled RELIGIOUS FANATICS IN THE US and can see why you might think the way you do. There are some rather wild accusations being spread around the 'net by NON-religious fanatics -- but again, you shouldn't believe everything you read here. Especially when there's only one side being presented and the people presenting are as far out of touch with reality in this country as they can possibly get.

The premise makes for some good anti-American rhetoric though, doesn't it?

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t33/texrose752/patriot.gif
SMW

"Jesus Camp" is a good documentary on the damage that the far-right Christians are doing in the country. In a nutshell, they use Christianity to brainwash kids into believing the typical political issues important to them. (i.e. pro-life, anti-evolution)

It's one thing to teach children these things, it's another to brainwash them. They're connecting faith together with their political beliefs and I seriously doubt that the kids will ever be able to look at these issues objectively. It's terrible parenting, when the kids grow up they should be able to make up their own damn minds about these things and I doubt that they will be able to.

"Jesus Camp" is a good documentary on the damage that the far-right Christians are doing in the country. In a nutshell, they use Christianity to brainwash kids into believing the typical political issues important to them. (i.e. pro-life, anti-evolution)

It's one thing to teach children these things, it's another to brainwash them. They're connecting faith together with their political beliefs and I seriously doubt that the kids will ever be able to look at these issues objectively. It's terrible parenting, when the kids grow up they should be able to make up their own damn minds about these things and I doubt that they will be able to.

Interesting first paragraph.

In a nutshell, the typical political issues you mention are important to me... does that mean I've been brainwashed, too?

(either way, that's still a far cry from DANGEROUS, wouldn't you agree?)

"Jesus Camp" is a good documentary on the damage that the far-right Christians are doing in the country. In a nutshell, they use Christianity to brainwash kids into believing the typical political issues important to them. (i.e. pro-life, anti-evolution)

how many ppl go to Jesus Camp out of the 320 million ppl that live here? they are literally a "drop in the bucket".

It's one thing to teach children these things, it's another to brainwash them. They're connecting faith together with their political beliefs and I seriously doubt that the kids will ever be able to look at these issues objectively. It's terrible parenting, when the kids grow up they should be able to make up their own damn minds about these things and I doubt that they will be able to.

all of life is politics, and your religion is the way you live your life. how can you separate the two?

Watch this video. Very scary stuff. Refusal to believe it COULD happen will no doubt be the downfall of America.

A wave of nationalistic bigotry, like that website trying to achieve, is just as frightening. Thankfully, it's also just as unlikely.

While you're feeling all safe & secure, Vile... I hope you'll at least remember that many brave Americans shed blood, sweat and tears (not to mention their lives) to make sure you're able to enjoy the luxury of not looking over your shoulder every day. I can tell you that Vile is in fact very appreciative of that.

how many ppl go to Jesus Camp out of the 320 million ppl that live here? they are literally a "drop in the bucket".

In the broadest sense, according to Gallup polls, the number of persons in the United States who described themselves as either Evangelical or Born-Again between 1976 and 2001 fluctuated between 33 percent and 47 percent with a reasonable estimate being 35 percent of the population or just over 102 million people in 2003. --Religion and Politics in the United States: Nuances You Should Know (http://www.publiceye.org/magazine/v17n2/evangelical-demographics.html)

Thirty-five percent of our population is hardly a "drop in the bucket."

I recommend reading the entire article. It contains a lot of good information about the evangelical movement and its ability to influence politics and social norms. And stupid people.

Thirty-five percent of our population is hardly a "drop in the bucket."

I recommend reading the entire article. It contains a lot of good information about the evangelical movement and its ability to influence politics and social norms. And stupid people.
and they all made it to a loony-fringe summer camp?:@@:

A wave of nationalistic bigotry, like that website trying to achieve, is just as frightening. Thankfully, it's also just as unlikely.

I can tell you that Vile is in fact very appreciative of that.

You certainly can't tell he's appreciative by his comments here. He doesn't seem to believe there's ever a cause for military action. Maybe he's just paying lipservice to his enlisted friends to hide his true colors, eh? Given the choice, I have no doubt he'd run and hide before he'd fight.

Yeah, that pesky nationalistic bigotry thing. Always seems to pop up whenever America faces an enemy who wishes us dead, doesn't it? Silly us.

and they all made it to a loony-fringe summer camp?:@@:

Man, I bet it was a l-o-n-g wait in the bathroom line!

:lolhit:

You certainly can't tell he's appreciative by his comments here. He doesn't seem to believe there's ever a cause for military action. Maybe he's just paying lipservice to his enlisted friends to hide his true colors, eh? Given the choice, I have no doubt he'd run and hide before he'd fight.
No, it's not just lipservice -- I can personally testify to that. However, I'll let him defend himself. I will say, though, that it's unfortunate that you choose to judge his character based on his political views.

Yeah, that pesky nationalistic bigotry thing. Always seems to pop up whenever America faces an enemy who wishes us dead, doesn't it? Silly us.Yes, but fortunately most Americans still know the difference between the enemy and those just share a religion or skin tone with them.

No, it's not just lipservice -- I can personally testify to that. However, I'll let him defend himself. I will say, though, that it's unfortunate that you choose to judge his character based on his political views.
Yes, but fortunately most Americans still know the difference between the enemy and those just share a religion or skin tone with them.

Yes, I'm sure he can speak for himself. And BTW, his political views have nothing to do with my opinion. Rather it's his insistance that NOTHING BAD will ever happen to us that makes me believe he's more chicken than hawk.

Or should I say more ostrich than freedom fighter.

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t33/texrose752/10.gif

The first sentence in the second paragraph explains my thoughts. If you believe it because that's what you believe, fine. These kids in the documentary are home schooled, and they are sent to camps where they literally get brainwashed into believing the issues their parents find important. The kids are never exposed to pro-evolution or pro-choice thoughts. How can they determine what makes sense to them if they don't get the opportunity to hear both sides of the story?

how many ppl go to Jesus Camp out of the 320 million ppl that live here? they are literally a "drop in the bucket".

True, but I also think it's a more realistic problem than the original post in the thread.

all of life is politics, and your religion is the way you live your life. how can you separate the two?

Not that hard, religion is how you live your own life...why should it interfere with government and policy?

It's hilarious, watching SMW wax conspiracy theorist here, going on about ostriches with their heads in the sand, downfall of America, and attacking everybody criticizing the crackpot theories she reposted from some other nut's blog as naive.

Truly, the irony is magnificent.

and they all made it to a loony-fringe summer camp?:@@:

You KNOW that's not what Fran meant. I mean the born-agains are no different than the people shown in the Jesus Camp video. And I have indeed been to many born-again "meetings" or whatever you call them.

These people scare me as much as any extremist religious people do.

You certainly can't tell he's appreciative by his comments here.

That's because you believe that anyone who doesn't demonstrate their "appreciation" in the correct way, is an enemy.


He doesn't seem to believe there's ever a cause for military action.

I have no idea why you imagine the things you do. I also have no problem with this country defending itself against attack, and maintaining a strong military to effect that defense. I just don't think we need to spend more money than the rest of the world combined to ensure we're adequately defended. I also don't think we need to invade countries that haven't attacked us, while diverting the effort away from countries that harbored those who did attack us.


Maybe he's just paying lipservice to his enlisted friends to hide his true colors, eh? Given the choice, I have no doubt he'd run and hide before he'd fight.

Lipservice? No, I leave that to you. After all, you're the one who wants to destroy this country, not I.

I do find it curious that you, the Allforums oracle of fear, should accuse me of being afraid. No matter, your accusations of cowardice are of no more worth than your weak-minded exhortations to fear and bigotry.


Yeah, that pesky nationalistic bigotry thing. Always seems to pop up whenever America faces an enemy who wishes us dead, doesn't it? Silly us.

What enemy would that be SMW? Can you name them?

Thanks for the kind words, Jester. :)

Yup ...You a Liberal by trade,disposition and overall sensibility.
What this country needs,isn't any more feelgood,self-esteem
building lessons in paper tiger diplomacy.
It's - Give em Hell Harry - all the way to the bank ...er else.
That's THE only way to remain strong,free and THE world's
guardian of warding off Terrorist and Despot bullies.
Yer powder puff ways are gonna git Americans Killed in the long
run.Show weakness,any weakness,an Terrorist have a virtual field
day.
When will you silly arse's learn.

You KNOW that's not what Fran meant. I mean the born-agains are no different than the people shown in the Jesus Camp video. And I have indeed been to many born-again "meetings" or whatever you call them.

These people scare me as much as any extremist religious people do.
i scare you?

Not that hard, religion is how you live your own life...why should it interfere with government and policy?
policy is formed by opinions, where do those opinions come from? how you live your life-or how you think you should.

Originally Posted by mikezila
policy is formed by opinions, where do those opinions come from? how you live your life-or how you think you should.
How can one form an opinion if someone else tells you how to live? Hell, how is that really living at all?

How can one form an opinion if someone else tells you how to live? Hell, how is that really living at all?
it's just suggestions, but some carry more weight than others.

i scare you?

*nods*:o

Jesus folk ARE pretty scary and should be avoided!

Praise the Lord-and pass the ammunition.

i scare you?

Yes you do Mikey... and it has nothing to do with religion!! :lolhit:

while diverting the effort away from countries that harbored those who did attack us.?

Ummmm i am sorry....but I have a question..... what exact country are you talking about?

MeskDXB[/B]] And I have indeed been to many born-again "meetings" or whatever you call them..
Ahhhh man I would pay $49.99 on PPV to see mesk at one of those!


Well this thread certainly didnt disappoint.. I just wish maybe FT would of joined in.... or fools with more of an active role.... or even a guest appearance by Tuck.... but even still... this thread doesn't disappoint.

i scare you?

Yes. You even have said in another post that why should politics and faith be different? It is what any Mullah sitting in the middle east believes.

Ahhhh man I would pay $49.99 on PPV to see mesk at one of those!
.

When I was in college (in 1989), I saw my roommate being sucked into this whole born again thing by these people who prey on college kids on college campuses. They sensed that my roommate was weak and needed attention so they kept coming over again and again. At first, he would hide and ask me to tell them that he was not there. But they kept coming and coming. it was a fucking crime I tell you. He was so into it and I wanted support my friend so he took me to some meetings to show me that it was not a cult or something dangerous. The head of that "church" was or is Watchman Nee. And you know what, it was a fucking cult! So, I could never talk with my buddy again, because once he was in, his whole goal was to convert me.

When I was in college (in 1989), I saw my roommate being sucked into this whole born again thing by these people who prey on college kids on college campuses. They sensed that my roommate was weak and needed attention so they kept coming over again and again. At first, he would hide and ask me to tell them that he was not there. But they kept coming and coming. it was a fucking crime I tell you. He was so into it and I wanted support my friend so he took me to some meetings to show me that it was not a cult or something dangerous. The head of that "church" was or is Watchman Nee. And you know what, it was a fucking cult! So, I could never talk with my buddy again, because once he was in, his whole goal was to convert me.

well you left out an importnat part to this story.... what ever happened to the friend?

well you left out an importnat part to this story.... what ever happened to the friend?

No idea. Could not hold a proper conversation anymore.

Ummmm i am sorry....but I have a question..... what exact country are you talking about?


I was making an oblique reference to Afghanistan.

i scare you?


Nope :D
But then again,I know you IRL and am biased.

I was making an oblique reference to Afghanistan.

Oh !
Kinda like Ollie Ollie Umphry ... Eh ?

Yes. You even have said in another post that why should politics and faith be different? It is what any Mullah sitting in the middle east believes.
boo!

they're both how you live your life (or think you should). if you try to live two lives, you're only going to drive yourself insane.

When I was in college (in 1989), I saw my roommate being sucked into this whole born again thing by these people who prey on college kids on college campuses. They sensed that my roommate was weak and needed attention so they kept coming over again and again. At first, he would hide and ask me to tell them that he was not there. But they kept coming and coming. it was a fucking crime I tell you. He was so into it and I wanted support my friend so he took me to some meetings to show me that it was not a cult or something dangerous. The head of that "church" was or is Watchman Nee. And you know what, it was a fucking cult! So, I could never talk with my buddy again, because once he was in, his whole goal was to convert me.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watchman_Nee

I find it ironic that someone can defend Christianity with the argument that the extremists are such a small part of the religion that they don't represent the normal following AND condemn Islam based on the actions of its extremist arm.

Second, the whole idea of "Fighting them over there so we don't fight them over here" is possibly the most idiotic thing I've ever heard...unless there actually is a Terroristan...

Just goes to show that people are afraid of what they don't understand, and being afraid of such an amorphous thing as culture to boot.

I find it ironic that someone can defend Christianity with the argument that the extremists are such a small part of the religion that they don't represent the normal following AND condemn Islam based on the actions of its extremist arm.

Second, the whole idea of "Fighting them over there so we don't fight them over here" is possibly the most idiotic thing I've ever heard...unless there actually is a Terroristan...

Just goes to show that people are afraid of what they don't understand, and being afraid of such an amorphous thing as culture to boot.


I would agree with that however I don't see any christian suicide bombers yet. Until that....

Agreed on the "fighting them over there".. its just all Bush bullshit.

Right, we can't beat muslim extremists with bombs. But, I don't think we went to Iraq for that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watchman_Nee

thanks. These guys did not believe in idols (crosses, etc.), but they sure did idolize watchman nee.

boo!

they're both how you live your life (or think you should). if you try to live two lives, you're only going to drive yourself insane.

No, because if you let your faith influence your politics then you are directly influencing others who may not hold the same faith. Get it?

It's so disgusting how brainwashed Americans are into not believing what Muslim filth have in their hearts. I mean, no organized group of humans in the world would knock down 2 office towers in an attempt to kill 50,000 innocent non military people right?

Wake up. Great post, thanks.

It's so disgusting how brainwashed Americans are into not believing what Muslim filth have in their hearts. I mean, no organized group of humans in the world would knock down 2 office towers in an attempt to kill 50,000 innocent non military people right?

Wake up. Great post, thanks.
Nobody denies that another attack is possible. It's these doomsday scenarios that people come up with that are ridiculous.

Nobody denies that another attack is possible. It's these doomsday scenarios that people come up with that are ridiculous.
Maybe, maybe not.

Are you really worried about firefights with terrorists in your neighborhood?

I think that all these guys who have been arrested after 9/11 trying to blow up airliners, such as the boy with the explosives in his shoes are simply copycat bombers, with likely zero connection to AQ.

I think that all these guys who have been arrested after 9/11 trying to blow up airliners, such as the boy with the explosives in his shoes are simply copycat bombers, with likely zero connection to AQ.
Reid's connection to Al Queda has been well proven (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1729852.stm), he is no boy, two shoes worth of C-4 is more than enough to breach the hull of a pressurized jet-the worst thing that can happen besides a wing falling off.

Cannon fodder nothing else.

Cannon fodder nothing else.
until they start making videos, they all are.

i hear it pays well for that part of the world, but they have no retirement plan.

Sure they do-its called oil.

Sure they do-its called oil.
most middle-eastern countries have no oil. Saudi subjects get their share when they marry-the King builds them a house.

most middle-eastern countries have no oil. Saudi subjects get their share when they marry-the King builds them a house.

The king builds them a house, yeah right.
Were does he go-tents r us :rolleyes:

The extreme right Christian fundamentalist will be the demise of the US of A.


I was waiting for someone to mention this. This thread was created with the intent of predicting that the country will be taken over by Islamic radicals but there really hasn't been any discussion about how the Christian right has nearly dominated our political discourse for the last twenty or so years. I don't even recall during the Carter years--the time in which I became politically aware--that there was ever a debate or forum in which the candidates had to discuss their faith and relate it to how they would govern. I'm sure you all remember the faith debates/forums that CNN had with candidates from both parties. Can you imagine the outcry that would follow if a candidate refused to participate in such events or if he/she stated that religion or faith is and should remain separate from the state? I really never cared for those forums for two reasons: 1) such forums merely gave the candidates opportunities to pander to the religionists and 2) such forums never gave the candidates a chance to intellectually justify their faith.

We've probably survived the worst of Christian fundamentalism in the Bush era. I would say that gay marriage is probably the last stronghold for the fundamentalists, although I am not certain that it will be in the coming months. Our country's financial condition will probably deteriorate further and people will probably care less about gays getting married or about whose minister is on the warpath again. I'm reading more and more stories about people who can't make ends meet; people who call AAA because they've run out of gas on the highway (knowing full well that they didn't have the money to afford filling up the tank); or people who now rely on food banks because the grocery chains have jacked up their prices. I would worry less about an all out Islamic insurgency here in our legal/political system and more about the bottom falling out of our economy because of our failure to quit spending beyond our means (i.e., on misguided foreign wars and on fuel guzzling, monster vehicles).

Nice post Erst.

I was waiting for someone to mention this. This thread was created with the intent of predicting that the country will be taken over by Islamic radicals but there really hasn't been any discussion about how the Christian right has nearly dominated our political discourse for the last twenty or so years. I don't even recall during the Carter years--the time in which I became politically aware--that there was ever a debate or forum in which the candidates had to discuss their faith and relate it to how they would govern. I'm sure you all remember the faith debates/forums that CNN had with candidates from both parties. Can you imagine the outcry that would follow if a candidate refused to participate in such events or if he/she stated that religion or faith is and should remain separate from the state? I really never cared for those forums for two reasons: 1) such forums merely gave the candidates opportunities to pander to the religionists and 2) such forums never gave the candidates a chance to intellectually justify their faith.

We've probably survived the worst of Christian fundamentalism in the Bush era. I would say that gay marriage is probably the last stronghold for the fundamentalists, although I am not certain that it will be in the coming months. Our country's financial condition will probably deteriorate further and people will probably care less about gays getting married or about whose minister is on the warpath again. I'm reading more and more stories about people who can't make ends meet; people who call AAA because they've run out of gas on the highway (knowing full well that they didn't have the money to afford filling up the tank); or people who now rely on food banks because the grocery chains have jacked up their prices. I would worry less about an all out Islamic insurgency here in our legal/political system and more about the bottom falling out of our economy because of our failure to quit spending beyond our means (i.e., on misguided foreign wars and on fuel guzzling, monster vehicles).

You couldn't be more off base if you tried.We're { ALL Americans }
are in a world of sticky mess.specifically BECAUSE we took our eyes
off the ball { Slick Willy was more interested in explaining away Monica}.
That is exactly what Terrorists are waiting for again.For Americans to get
cushy complacent,and furgit that there exists those { Radical Islamists }
who are very patient and dire in their methods and intent.
So was Bush,and that's entirely why we've had NO successful attacks
post 9/11.
I'm not a McCain fan,but at least he'll maintain the Bush Doctrine of
being on the Offensive.That is THE only way in a Post 9/11 world.
BTW ... Iraqi Freedom HAS accomplished good.Democracy is slowly
taking root and the Surge is maintaining security.
The worse fears,that seem to sprout legs,is those Leftists who
dread having to acknowledge that the Surge is working and maybe
Iraqi Freedom,will be seen as a good move.A move to show the middle
east that Americanism { Freedom to govern w/o fear of a Dictator
or reprisals } is good for everyone,outside a mindset of centuries old
Barbarism.That will not " Hop'n " { Brando - Teahouse of the August Moon-}
as in didn't set,overnight,also.

Nice post Erst.

Figgers.Cynical pessimist.

I dont think radical Islam is a threat to the future of America, moreso I see Latino Catholics being the real threat to extreme Christians, Latinos are out breeding Anglos every year, as they naturally have large families, add to that the wave of immigrants both legal and other.

The SW States are a good example of whats to come.

I dont think radical Islam is a threat to the future of America, moreso I see Latino Catholics being the real threat to extreme Christians, Latinos are out breeding Anglos every year, as they naturally have large families, add to that the wave of immigrants both legal and other.

The SW States are a good example of whats to come.

Another problem with your perception of what's going on here, Paul.

The majority of newly-immigrated "Latinos" are NOT Catholics. They have quickly formed their own non-denominational churches and are quite active in missionary work both in Mexico and Central America.

If allowed to happen, the downfall of America will not be due to any religious sect... unless you consider radical Islamic groups to be religious.

Just heard this morning that the most popular names being given to newborns in Italy today are Arab names. Muslims are out-birthing non-Muslims by 4:1. Similar numbers are beginning to appear in France. Only a matter of time until the same is true throughout Europe.

Will that happen in America?

Only time will tell.

I'm reading more and more stories about people who can't make ends meet; people who call AAA because they've run out of gas on the highway (knowing full well that they didn't have the money to afford filling up the tank); or people who now rely on food banks because the grocery chains have jacked up their prices. I would worry less about an all out Islamic insurgency here in our legal/political system and more about the bottom falling out of our economy because of our failure to quit spending beyond our means (i.e., on misguided foreign wars and on fuel guzzling, monster vehicles).

My mother and I were just talking about this yesterday. She mentioned that she saw organic eggs at the grocery store for $4.29. $4.29 for eggs!

I can imagine a future where more and more people leave the cities to do what I've done - live a cheaper, more self-sustaining life in the country, growing some of their own food because, for example, lettuce trucked in from California is selling for $3.40 a head, and gas is running $4.92/gal.

Let's face it, our oil troubles affect the cost everything, and I see no end to that problem. Unless and until we develop renewable energy sources on a national level, the cost of food, clothing, transportation, housing, and anything else you can name will only increase. As a result, more and more people will find themselves visiting the local food bank just to put a meal in their kids' bellies.

:(

The king builds them a house, yeah right.
Were does he go-tents r us :rolleyes:
those are the Bedouins living in tents. the middle east is the home of the house, they've been building them since before Europeans invented the mud hut.

My mother and I were just talking about this yesterday. She mentioned that she saw organic eggs at the grocery store for $4.29. $4.29 for eggs!

I can imagine a future where more and more people leave the cities to do what I've done - live a cheaper, more self-sustaining life in the country, growing some of their own food because, for example, lettuce trucked in from California is selling for $3.40 a head, and gas is running $4.92/gal.

Let's face it, our oil troubles affect the cost everything, and I see no end to that problem. Unless and until we develop renewable energy sources on a national level, the cost of food, clothing, transportation, housing, and anything else you can name will only increase. As a result, more and more people will find themselves visiting the local food bank just to put a meal in their kids' bellies.

:(
that kinda sucks-my eggs cost 89 cents...but those were on sale for a dollar off. maybe your friend should get some chickens if she wants organic eggs that bad?

that kinda sucks-my eggs cost 89 cents...but those were on sale for a dollar off. maybe your friend should get some chickens if she wants organic eggs that bad?

My "friend" was my mother, and she has chickens, and a massive vegetable garden, and fruit trees, nut trees, citrus trees, avocado trees, etc. And that was kind of my point...

My family has been doing for years what I foresee many more will be forced to do, due to an ever-increasing inability to afford the basics - living life a bit closer to nature.

My "friend" was my mother, and she has chickens, and a massive vegetable garden, and fruit trees, nut trees, citrus trees, avocado trees, etc. And that was kind of my point...

My family has been doing for years what I foresee many more will be forced to do, due to an ever-increasing inability to afford the basics - living life a bit closer to nature.
that, or you could push your congressman on developing American energy resources:thumbs:

there's coal, oil shale, dams that could be built...there's all kinds of stuff w/o even drilling in AWAR of off the Gulf Coast (even if the Chinese are).

that, or you could push your congressman on developing American energy resources:thumbs:

there's coal, oil shale, dams that could be built...there's all kinds of stuff w/o even drilling in AWAR of off the Gulf Coast (even if the Chinese are).

I think the key here is to move away from finite sources like coal and oil and develop renewable energy sources. Hydroelectric power, wind farms, vegetable alternatives for oil, etc. After all, relying on finite sources is what got us in the pickle we're in today.

Another problem with your perception of what's going on here, Paul.

The majority of newly-immigrated "Latinos" are NOT Catholics. They have quickly formed their own non-denominational churches and are quite active in missionary work both in Mexico and Central America.

Do you have a source for this?

According to the Pew Hispanic Project, 68% of Latinos in this country are Catholic, and: "About a third of all Catholics in the U.S. are now Latinos, and the study projects that the Latino share will continue climbing for decades."

http://www.pewforum.org/surveys/hispanic/


If allowed to happen, the downfall of America will not be due to any religious sect... unless you consider radical Islamic groups to be religious.

You seem to be suggesting that the downfall of this country will be brought about by "radical Islamic groups". Do you believe this, and if so, how will this come about?

:corn: :corn: :corn: :corn:

I can't seem to get enuff popcorn.

I think the key here is to move away from finite sources like coal and oil and develop renewable energy sources. Hydroelectric power, wind farms, vegetable alternatives for oil, etc. After all, relying on finite sources is what got us in the pickle we're in today.
i like the idea of fusion power and electric cars, but that's decades off, and we have enough coal to replace current domestic oil use for 800 years. that would get us there.

keep in mind that we don't just burn oil, it's made into fertilizer too, and in the production of plastics.

Do you have a source for this?

According to the Pew Hispanic Project, 68% of Latinos in this country are Catholic, and: "About a third of all Catholics in the U.S. are now Latinos, and the study projects that the Latino share will continue climbing for decades."

Other than the fact that I LIVE in a city where over 1/3 of the population is Latino and they haven't built a new Catholic church here in years... and the fact that, of the many Latinos I know personally, not ONE is Catholic... here's a written source for you. Since it's a couple of years old, numbers are no doubt higher today than when it was written.

"Latino Catholics Increasingly Drawn To Pentecostalism" (http://www.wwrn.org/article.php?idd=21350&sec=71&con=4)

by Sonya Geis ("Washington Post," April 30, 2006)

Los Angeles, USA - When Fabiola Briones entered a Pentecostal church for the first time, she was in crisis, recently divorced and bitter from abuse she suffered as a child. A Mexican-American Catholic, she had never seen anyone fall to the ground while praising God or speak in tongues, which is common at Pentecostal services.

But she liked the church and she went back. On an Easter Sunday two months later, she was transformed.

"A hand went inside of me, and I felt God was pulling out roots," she said from the pew of a Pentecostal service here last week. "I know now that they were the roots of bitterness. I forgave my ex-husband, and I was healed from the abuse."

Briones is one of thousands of Latino immigrants who have left behind the ritual and perceived formality of the Roman Catholic Church for the personal experiences and boisterous services of Pentecostalism. The mass migration of Latinos to charismatic Christian movements, such as Pentecostalism, is more than a religious transformation. It also could have strong political ramifications.

...

Today, Pentecostalism has between 250 million and 500 million adherents. It is the fastest-growing Christian movement in the world. Thirty years ago, Pentecostals or similar charismatic groups represented 6 percent of all Christians; today that figure is 25 percent, according to the World Christian Encyclopedia.


You seem to be suggesting that the downfall of this country will be brought about by "radical Islamic groups". Do you believe this, and if so, how will this come about?

Do you NOT believe that the downfall of America is a top priority on RADICAL Islamic to-do lists?

I remember reading about Irish Immigrants first arriving in America, a lot of them changed religion at the time from Catholic to some of the various Protestant churches, as it helped them blend in and seek work in an anti Catholic environment, I wonder if the same sort of thing is occurring in the southern US ?

I remember reading about Irish Immigrants first arriving in America, a lot of them changed religion at the time from Catholic to some of the various Protestant churches, as it helped them blend in and seek work in an anti Catholic environment, I wonder if the same sort of thing is occurring in the southern US ?

Yeah, Paul... I think that's part of it. Plus, protestant churches offer more opportunities for them to get involved in their own communities. My yardman (who's worked for me for nearly 10 years now) is a member of a huge Pentecostal church and very active in their missionary work. In fact, I store some of his lawn equipment in my garage when he leaves for long periods of time to build a new church somewhere. It's a way for them to take care of themselves... and help take care of their fellow immigrants.

He's invited me to his church, but since I don't speak much Spanish, I declined. He laughed and told me, "Awwww, you would understand, lady."

Somehow, I doubt that.

;)

i like the idea of fusion power and electric cars, but that's decades off, and we have enough coal to replace current domestic oil use for 800 years. that would get us there.

It's possible. But coal will eventually run out, too.

keep in mind that we don't just burn oil, it's made into fertilizer too, and in the production of plastics.

I know. That's why I said that EVERYTHING will cost more due to our reliance on finite fuel sources.

Other than the fact that I LIVE in a city where over 1/3 of the population is Latino and they haven't built a new Catholic church here in years... and the fact that, of the many Latinos I know personally, not ONE is Catholic... here's a written source for you. Since it's a couple of years old, numbers are no doubt higher today than when it was written.

"Latino Catholics Increasingly Drawn To Pentecostalism" (http://www.wwrn.org/article.php?idd=21350&sec=71&con=4)

Even the site I linked to, which is slightly more up-to-date, said that many Latino Catholics were moving towards Pentecostalism, but it didn't indicate that most of them were. If you look at the map, you'll notice that California, Arizona, and New Mexico have some of the highest numbers of Catholics per capita in the US. I don't think it's coincidental that those states also have large Latino immigrant populations.


Do you NOT believe that the downfall of America is a top priority on RADICAL Islamic to-do lists?

Of course, but the question still remains. How do you think it's possible that they might succeed?

Even the site I linked to, which is slightly more up-to-date, said that many Latino Catholics were moving towards Pentecostalism, but it didn't indicate that most of them were. If you look at the map, you'll notice that California, Arizona, and New Mexico have some of the highest numbers of Catholics per capita in the US. I don't think it's coincidental that those states also have large Latino immigrant populations.



Of course, but the question still remains. How do you think it's possible that they might succeed?

Well, I may be a little biased, but I prefer to believe what I SEE as opposed to what I read.

And excuse me, Vile, but your question leads me to believe you're trying to set me up again and I'd prefer not to play that game. Maybe you want me to blame the Libs or the Dems or the atheists or the gays so you can once again try to teach me a lesson.

If you don't mind, think I'll pass this time.

Besides... if I knew the answer to that question, I'd be running for president. And if YOU knew the answer, I'd pick you for my running mate.

And excuse me, Vile, but your question leads me to believe you're trying to set me up again and I'd prefer not to play that game.

No SMW, I'm not trying to set you up, I'm trying to understand clearly why you fear Islamics as much as you do. You have alluded more than once to the fact that Islamics want, or will be, the downfall of this country, yet you never even hint as to how you think this might come about. Frankly, the notion that a ragtag band of nut-jobs could bring down this country seems to me to be unlikely in the extreme, and I cringe when someone uses this notion to support any action whatever.


Maybe you want me to blame the Libs or the Dems or the atheists or the gays so you can once again try to teach me a lesson.

Maybe I just want you to state your opinions clearly.


Besides... if I knew the answer to that question, I'd be running for president. And if YOU knew the answer, I'd pick you for my running mate.

If you don't know the answer, why do you believe it will happen?

Just heard this morning that the most popular names being given to newborns in Italy today are Arab names. Muslims are out-birthing non-Muslims by 4:1. Similar numbers are beginning to appear in France.


If that's true, that is scary.

Still, I agree with Erst - our greatest problem is the abuse and misallocation of resources.