Clinton: OPEC 'can no longer be a cartel'

Clinton's attacks on oil prices as artificially inflated, Enron-style, keep escalating, and today she appeared to threaten to break up the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries.

"We’re going to go right at OPEC," she said. "They can no longer be a cartel, a monopoly that get together once every couple of months in some conference room in some plush place in the world, they decide how much oil they’re going to produce and what price they’re going to put it at," she told a crod at a firehouse in Merrillville, IN.

"That’s not a market. That’s a monopoly," she said, saying she'd use anti-trust law and the World Trade Organization to take on OPEC.

Clinton has cast herself as a warrior for working people against the oil industry and malicious "speculators," and made that -- along with her push for a gas tax holiday -- central to her closing message in Indiana.

It's a potent message, like the attack on "Wall Street money brokers," with deep roots in American politics. It's also very hard to figure out what exactly she means by the threat to break OPEC.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0508/Clinton_OPEC_can_no_longer_be_a_cartel.html

Shall we call her a pandering populist? It's meaningless rhetoric. She neither has the ability or the wherewithal to do other than shout into the wind.

what's she gonna do? tell them they can't sell us oil?

Don't worry, Righties.

After McCain is elected he'll probably wind up proposing something along the same lines....then the Hillary haters hereabouts, along with every other hypocritical rightwing moth@rfucker in the U.S., will be pissing themselves screaming about how fantastic it is for McCain to attempt to take on OPEC and do something about gas prices.

yeah, sure, piss of the guy with the oil when you are an oil guzzling economy.

funny, opec calls the shots, and exxon, mobil, etc., are american corporations that make shitloads of money. hmmmm..........

That's funny, she's going to use American laws and try to apply them in the Middle East. Maybe we can also send them to jail for speeding or something.

That's funny, she's going to use American laws and try to apply them in the Middle East. Maybe we can also send them to jail for speeding or something.
the Feds did that with DeBeers, but DeBeers really was a monopoly...and it took like 30 years to get them into court.:taser:

Shall we call her a pandering populist? It's meaningless rhetoric. She neither has the ability or the wherewithal to do other than shout into the wind.
My sentiments exactly.

Her point was good, alas, as has been said, she cant do shit about it, apart from send the stormtroopers into Saudi and Canada and simply steal it.

Oh wait a minute...........................

Ah, so we're back to "stealing" oil again, I see. Whatever - :rolleyes:

Ah, so we're back to "stealing" oil again, I see. Whatever - :rolleyes:

Question: As the availability of oil decreases, do you believe the nation with the worlds most powerful armed forces is gonna stand back and go without its favourite tipple ?

Question: As the availability of oil decreases, do you believe the nation with the worlds most powerful armed forces is gonna stand back and go without its favourite tipple ?
no, i believe we are actually going to develop a sane energy policy.

we have a couple of fusion reactor projects in the works, and company that's improved the Nazi coal liquefaction process enough to patent it and in talks with the major oil companies. that alone leaves us with an 800 year supply at current consumption.

Question: As the availability of oil decreases, do you believe the nation with the worlds most powerful armed forces is gonna stand back and go without its favourite tipple ?
Absolutely not. As a matter of fact, I'm pretty sure we're intent on depleting the world's supply before we tap our own (and that's only if we're forced to, which I highly doubt given the technological trends of the west). Oh, and we are paying for what we use currently, Paul. We don't set the prices, and the interruption in supply our "war" has cost the world market is negligible, at best. Now, whether or not you wanna believe it is immaterial - everything I just said is a cold, hard fact.

Well it can be seen that America and China are gonna corner the world supply into each others camps.

When fuel prices in the US reach the stage that they will effect domestic politics in a big way, ie, maybe even the Presidency, then oil will become the priority, any nation refusing to sell, will simply have their country occupied.

We're a few decades from this scenario, but it will happen.

Why, Paul, I thought you were against fear-mongering?!? LOL. I think that's highly unlikely on our end, and having said that, we won't need to. In a few decades, we'll have developed an alternative energy source. For years, we haven't had to, and on that note, you know how the old saying goes: "necessity is the mother of invention", right? That aside, we (the US) already HAVE a fairly substantial oil supply we haven't even tapped into yet.

If you're worried about anyone, worry about China, not us. We're not quite the bastards you like making us out to be.

Well it can be seen that America and China are gonna corner the world supply into each others camps.

When fuel prices in the US reach the stage that they will effect domestic politics in a big way, ie, maybe even the Presidency, then oil will become the priority, any nation refusing to sell, will simply have their country occupied.

We're a few decades from this scenario, but it will happen.


Syd Diamond lives!

Why, Paul, I thought you were against fear-mongering?!? LOL. I think that's highly unlikely on our end, and having said that, we won't need to. In a few decades, we'll have developed an alternative energy source. For years, we haven't had to, and on that note, you know how the old saying goes: "necessity is the mother of invention", right? That aside, we (the US) already HAVE a fairly substantial oil supply we haven't even tapped into yet.

If you're worried about anyone, worry about China, not us. We're not quite the bastards you like making us out to be.

Now now Prae, your claws are starting to show man.
To claim I make you guys out to be bastards is untrue and may I say, unfair.
I have never ran your country down either here or anywhere else, the war mongering morons who run your country, sure, at every chance, but not America itself, to link an attack on the Administration with an attack on the country, is an age old right wing trick, dont play it on me thanks.

That said, your right in some points at least.

America is very capable of developing alternative energy, moreso than any other nation (you see, praise), however, supply and demand dominate the market, you change the American love affair with gas guzzlers, you deserve
to make a zillion dollars, thats something that aint gonna happen anytime soon.

Now these unexplored oil fields, are we talking the Alaska nature reserves, the ones protected by law ?

Your right also about China, you guys and them guys are gonna come to blows someday over oil, no mistake.

I've said it once, twice, and maybe even three times. I'll say it again.

Drill ANWR.

Depending on those in the middle east for anything is not a good idea. I mean I'm just saying. Of course the development of an alternate energy source would be the best route, but thats going to continue to be drug out as long as possible.

Drill ANWR.



ANWR has 20 Billion barrels of oil. Our DAILY appetite is 20 MIllion barrels a day. So, by drilling ANWR we would have oil for 1000 days (less then 3 years)! C'mon, this whole drilling ANWR is just for Bush's buddies to make a quick buck. It won't make a dent in the world gas prices. Also, why would a oil company drilling in ANWR sell oil for less then the world prices? THEY WON'T. ANWR will not make any difference!

ANWR has 20 Billion barrels of oil. Our DAILY appetite is 20 MIllion barrels a day. So, by drilling ANWR we would have oil for 1000 days (less then 3 years)! C'mon, this whole drilling ANWR is just for Bush's buddies to make a quick buck. It won't make a dent in the world gas prices. Also, why would a oil company drilling in ANWR sell oil for less then the world prices? THEY WON'T. ANWR will not make any difference!

Well said. You are absolutely right.

Well said. You are absolutely right.

Thank you.:) One more thing: It is impossible to extract and refine 20 million barrels a day (which is our appetite), so yes the products from ANWR will go on longer than the three years, however on day to day basis it would only be a percentage or two of our daily appetite. Either way you look at it: If you are able to extract 20 million bbd per day (impossible) it will only last 3 years, and IF you only extract 1 million or so a day (more realistic), then that is only 5% of our daily requirement, its no use.

ANWR has 20 Billion barrels of oil.
You're correct in that the U.S. consumes about 20 million barrels daily. Now, if the ANWR oil reserves were used to supply 5% of the U.S. daily consumption (using your estimate) the reserves would last approximately 64 years (and that's at 5%). That said, less demand (on the world's supply) WILL LOWER PRICES. That's an indisputable FACT. Total oil independence thru ANWR at 20 million barrels per day would only supply the United States for 3 years, but as you said, complete reliance on ANWR is impossible. However....

Using the $120 price per barrel of oil nowadays, with the aforementioned 20 billion barrel supply, it'd be would be worth roughly 2,520,000,000,000.00 ($2.52 trillion - of which, a good portion could represent a savings to the average American).

That's hardly a pointless endeavor. That said, we don't need 64 years to develop an alternative energy source. In short, I say fuck the wildlife there, drill to maximum capacity, supplement our current supply at a federally mandated less-than-plats price, and voila - in 15 years, we'll have solved the problem AND we'll have fucked OPEC over (read; everyone we HATE), which, needless to say, is a BIG benefit, IMHO.

But don't I keep hearing that oil consumption is expected to rise by 45% in the next ten years?

Sucking dry our last unraped oil fields for an extremely temporary fix only postpones the inevitable - we must develop alternative/renewable energy sources NOW.

Edited to include one renewable, non-polluting, money-making option: First Wind-Powered City in America (http://www.abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=4888310&page=1)

To claim I make you guys out to be bastards is untrue and may I say, unfair.
You JUST SAID that we're gonna "occupy" (a nice euphemism for invade, I might add) countries who won't sell us oil. Do you not see that comment as a fairly nasty indictment of who we are and what we stand for (our "current government", aside, of course)?!? I mean, seriously - you just likened us to CHINA, for Christ's sake!
I have never ran your country down either here or anywhere else, the war mongering morons who run your country, sure, at every chance, but not America itself, to link an attack on the Administration with an attack on the country, is an age old right wing trick, dont play it on me thanks.
Well, when everything is under the auspices of attacking the "war mongering morons" who RUN our country, I hope you can understand the confusion.
Now these unexplored oil fields, are we talking the Alaska nature reserves, the ones protected by law ?
Kind of. That's actually up for debate; it's OUR land, but we did sign an agreement with Canada to protect porcupines (or some other tree-hugging shit - I don't know).
Your right also about China, you guys and them guys are gonna come to blows someday over oil, no mistake.
I really don't think so, Paul.

But don't I keep hearing that oil consumption is expected to rise by 45% in the next ten years?
I think that's bogus. Has it increased 45% in the LAST ten years??? I mean, I don't know for certain, but somehow, I seriously doubt it.
Sucking dry our last unraped oil fields for an extremely temporary fix only postpones the inevitable - we must develop alternative/renewable energy sources NOW.
No doubt. I agree with that, for sure.

ANWR has 20 Billion barrels of oil. Our DAILY appetite is 20 MIllion barrels a day. So, by drilling ANWR we would have oil for 1000 days (less then 3 years)! C'mon, this whole drilling ANWR is just for Bush's buddies to make a quick buck. It won't make a dent in the world gas prices. Also, why would a oil company drilling in ANWR sell oil for less then the world prices? THEY WON'T. ANWR will not make any difference!

A rather silly argument. It would last 1000 days if that were the only source of oil and if they could pump that much per day. Neither of which is remotely realistic. The field would more likely have a life of 20 years or more.
As to whether it would reduce the price that's a function of demand.

As to whether it would reduce the price that's a function of demand.
Precisely.

I think that's bogus. Has it increased 45% in the LAST ten years??? I mean, I don't know for certain, but somehow, I seriously doubt it.

I think China is included in that 45%, which makes it more believable.

I think China is included in that 45%, which makes it more believable.
Oh, I got cha! I just assumed you were talking about our consumption – my bad.

Yeah, I suppose it's possible, but it still seems a little far-fetched to me.

ANWR has 20 Billion barrels of oil. Our DAILY appetite is 20 MIllion barrels a day. So, by drilling ANWR we would have oil for 1000 days (less then 3 years)! C'mon, this whole drilling ANWR is just for Bush's buddies to make a quick buck. It won't make a dent in the world gas prices. Also, why would a oil company drilling in ANWR sell oil for less then the world prices? THEY WON'T. ANWR will not make any difference!

I'm not saying we are to fully depend on ANWR, as Prae and Waldo pointed out for me. You are correct, there is not enough there to last the US for more than a few years, if it was our only source. It would be a supplement to what we have and it would reduce oil prices for us greatly. Remember we still get oil from many other places. We would simply just cut OPEC out of the picture as much as possible.

Alternate energy is the key, however that is still many years away.

Originally Posted by paulc
To claim I make you guys out to be bastards is untrue and may I say, unfair.

You JUST SAID that we're gonna "occupy" (a nice euphemism for invade, I might add) countries who won't sell us oil. Do you not see that comment as a fairly nasty indictment of who we are and what we stand for .....

?!?!?


"fairly nasty".....?????

:rolleyes:

More like -- "Dead on accurate."

You JUST SAID that we're gonna "occupy" (a nice euphemism for invade, I might add) countries who won't sell us oil. Do you not see that comment as a fairly nasty indictment of who we are and what we stand for .....

Do you know why the Myanmar government won't allow us into their country to give aid to the cyclone victims?

Because they believe we want to invade and occupy their country and take their oil.

"The strings attached to the relief supplies carried by warships and military helicopters are not acceptable to the Myanmar people," said the New Light of Myanmar newspaper, a mouthpiece for the ruling junta.

The media report hinted that Myanmar's real fear is that the U.S. would use the disaster as a pretext to invade and take control of Myanmar's oil reserves.

While flatly denied by U.S. officials, the fear of invasion is so deep that Myanmar's generals abandoned the previous capital in Yangon, in the south, in 2005 and built a bunker-laden operation in the dusty, less populated north to prepare for it --International Herald Tribune (http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/05/22/asia/AS-GEN-Myanmar-US-Military.php)

They're willing to allow hundreds of thousands of their citizens to suffer and die out of fear of the U.S. and (what they see as) our oil-hungry nation/government. Whether or not we are an oil-hungry nation/government is beside the point - the reality is, we are seen that way by other nations of the world because of our actions in Iraq, and thousands more will die because of it.

Good job, BushCo.

You JUST SAID that we're gonna "occupy" (a nice euphemism for invade, I might add) countries who won't sell us oil. Do you not see that comment as a fairly nasty indictment of who we are and what we stand for (our "current government", aside, of course)?!?
Believe me, in the decades to come, the United States WILL occupy nations which refuse to sell it oil. Why you see that as a nasty indictment of who
and what Americans stand for, is beyond me.

Well, when everything is under the auspices of attacking the "war mongering morons" who RUN our country, I hope you can understand the confusion.
No confusion, America is ran by war mongering morons. The people whom normally elect them are the military types, the people who rely of Military related jobs for they're income and those who see America as some sort of new Rome, ie, the majority of Republicans.

Kind of. That's actually up for debate; it's OUR land, but we did sign an agreement with Canada to protect porcupines (or some other tree-hugging shit - I don't know).

So your even willing to give up protected areas in the never ending persuit of oil.

Believe me, in the decades to come, the United States WILL occupy nations which refuse to sell it oil. Why you see that as a nasty indictment of who
and what Americans stand for, is beyond me.
Yeah, my stated conclusion was intended to present you with a total fuckin' mystery. :@@: Are you for real?

You say some of the weirdest shit on occasion, I swear.
No confusion, America is ran by war mongering morons.
Yep, and to the eyes of myopic, sanctimonious, milquetoasts the world over, it always will be, I'm sure.
So your even willing to give up protected areas in the never ending persuit of oil.
So if people won't sell us oil (an absurd notion, to say the least), then what you're saying is, essentially, we shouldn't be able to drill for our own either. Nice compromise.

In short, it's our property, Paul - we'll do whatever we want with it, and if some pantywaist out there has a problem with that, then they can go fuck themselves. There's a bigger picture here.

Yeah, my stated conclusion was intended to present you with a total fuckin' mystery. :@@: Are you for real?

You say some of the weirdest shit on occasion, I swear.
The two main natural resources that will become in short supply in coming years are,
1 Water

2 Oil

Now, no problem in most of the United States with water, tho the states with the increasing populations, ie, South West, are under increasing pressure to supply water.

Oil, these OPEC people say there is no shortage of oil, and that the price is rising thru speculation, yet they refuse to increase capacity, to help out the western world, America included.
China is buying oil futures like they are going out of fashion, and between them and India increasing demand on oil supplies, things are only gonna get worse. Once the price of a gallon of gas at the pump gets so expensive that it becomes a major election issue in the states, then to win and stay in office, military action will become very attrative to whoever the President at that time is, basicly using the US Armed Forces for party political gain, as was seen in Iraq.

Yep, and to the eyes of myopic, sanctimonious, milquetoasts the world over, it always will be, I'm sure.
Yes Im sure thats true.

So if people won't sell us oil (an absurd notion, to say the least), then what you're saying is, essentially, we shouldn't be able to drill for our own either. Nice compromise.
Wha Im saying is, oil producing nations are not under any obligation to sell their oil to America.

In short, it's our property, Paul - we'll do whatever we want with it, and if some pantywaist out there has a problem with that, then they can go fuck themselves. There's a bigger picture here.
In short, it is your property, lets see ya gettin a bill passed to go into Alaska and dig it out, the greens will be all over it like a rash.
So-whats the bigger picture then ?

I have a good idea. Tell the enviro's to go screw themselves and start producing our own oil and tell those camel jockeys to stick it where the sun dont shine.

Oil, these OPEC people say there is no shortage of oil, and that the price is rising thru speculation, yet they refuse to increase capacity, to help out the western world, America included.
That could be true. More on that to follow.
China is buying oil futures like they are going out of fashion, and between them and India increasing demand on oil supplies, things are only gonna get worse.
Agreed.
Wha Im saying is, oil producing nations are not under any obligation to sell their oil to America.
No, they're not "obligated" to sell us their oil any more than McDonalds is obligated to sell cheeseburgers to fat people, but I think you're overlooking the obvious in that it would be an extremely stupid business decision on McDonalds part to institute a "no fat people allowed" policy, wouldn't it?

That said, if the OPEC nations were to ever engage in business practices specifically to harm our economy, then I would eradicate every one of 'em with absolutely NO compunction, whatsoever. You fuck with our money or well being, you die (preferably, in a painful way) - end of story. In short, if you're not required to play nice or fair, then neither are we.

I have a good idea. Tell the enviro's to go screw themselves and start producing our own oil and tell those camel jockeys to stick it where the sun dont shine.

Is it not their country also ?

That said, if the OPEC nations were to ever engage in business practices specifically to harm our economy, then I would eradicate every one of 'em with absolutely NO compunction, whatsoever. You fuck with our money or well being, you die (preferably, in a painful way) - end of story. In short, if you're not required to play nice or fair, then neither are we.
Goodman Prae, spoken like a true American.

Thank you. :)