LiquidFork: I dont see why this is an issue. This is not an extension to Obama,and should not have a single thing to do with his beliefs or policies.
Vile: "It amazes me that you'd resort to attacking someone for the statements made by another person.
If you attend a house of worship, do you have to agree with the clergyman's political views?"
Freethinker: "Given what a totally dishonest partisan political assclown the person is who launched the attack in question, it does not *amaze* me in the slightest that he'd try to spread such f_____g lies and disinformation.
For those sheep on the hard Right, it is simply par for the course."
Jaxwuzhere: "I simply feel that his religion (or lack thereof) should be a non-issue, yet every where you turn, someone is brining it up."
Napsterbater: "...his opponents can spin it to smear him"
Vile: "When Obama starts to repeat some of the things that are attributed to Mr. Wright, then you can worry...until then, attacking Obama for the words of another is just, to borrow your words...lame."
Freethinker: ".........while in the present instance with Obama, the rightwing media and their talking heads like Limbaugh, Hannity, Michael Savage et all are doing everything in their power to make a HUGE issue of it"
Sedan: "this kind of scrutiny has to be expected by Obama, and I doubt he'd set himself up for a 'gotcha' like that."
Jaxwuzhere: "This horse is dead, but keep on whipping it if you must....it can't feel a thing."
"Wow, you make an entire personality out of being deliberately obtuse."
Dhrama: "This is a non-story about Obama."

"The fact that he is my former pastor I think makes it a legitimate political issue."
- Barack Obama April 27, 2008

http://www.mentalfloss.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/yawn.jpg (https://ssl.mci.com/http/www.mentalfloss.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/yawn.jpg)

Can you paste some of that. I can't get in.

Can you paste some of that. I can't get in.
http://www.mentalfloss.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/yawn.jpg

he url'd when he should have img'd.

"The fact that he is my former pastor I think makes it a legitimate political issue."
- Barack Obama April 27, 2008
odd that the only Obama supporter that think's it an issue is Obama:confused:

It is becoming quite apparent that a "quote" from Brooks should be taken with a large grain of salt.

Again, I ask you, Brooks, what do you want here? The story has played itself out all over the media, for a long, long time. This has grown to be far bigger than the Trent Lott controversy, and Reverend Wright is more or less a household name. The entire nation has spoken. Obama has been made to answer for his association with the man, whether anybody on AFN feels he should have to or not. It's time to move on.

"The fact that he is my former pastor I think makes it a legitimate political issue."
- Barack Obama April 27, 2008

I guess that's something Obama and I disagree about.

I guess that's something Obama and I disagree about.
:lolhit:

Again, I ask you, Brooks, what do you want here? The story has played itself out all over the media, for a long, long time.
Some of us thought it is a relevant story, mainly because Obama made it one with his deception.
I was called "prejudice", partisan and various f-words by Freethinker.
Well it turns out even Obama thinks it's relevant.
With the exception of Vile, where are the people who, unlike Obama, screamed irrelevancy?

Some of us thought it is a relevant story, mainly because Obama made it one with his deception.What deception?With the exception of Vile, where are the people who, unlike Obama, screamed irrelevancy?What part of "this kind of scrutiny has to be expected by Obama" equates with "screaming irrelevancy" in your mind?

What deception?
Since this started Obama has been saying what a great man the most reverand Jeremiah Wright is. He lauded him in his books, baptisms, $22,000, blah, blah, blah.

Those of us who criticized him were told "those are just snippets and soundbytes", "this is a criticism of the black church", "listen to it in the proper context", blah blah blah.

Now that several speeches in their entirety have made it into the public domain, people can see what a racist lunatic, anti-science, angry man this Reverand Wright is.

And what does Obama say? This isn't the man I've known for twenty years. He doesn't represent how I feel.
Give me a break.

How do Foolsworth, Praetorian and I figure this guy out almost instantly and Obama is fooled for twenty years.

That is until an entire speech became very public.
And then it's "OMG, is that what my pastor believes. OMG."

Sure.

Personally, I'm concerned about Obama's lack of foresight when it came to believing his pastor/mentor/friend wouldn't be a problem for him in the first place. Makes me wonder how disconnected to American society the man really is?

I'm glad he finally renounced the self-righteous old hatemonger... although I'm sure we haven't heard the last from him.

SMW

Since this started Obama has been saying what a great man the most reverand Jeremiah Wright is. He lauded him in his books, baptisms, $22,000, blah, blah, blah.

Those of us who criticized him were told "those are just snippets and soundbytes", "this is a criticism of the black church", "listen to it in the proper context", blah blah blah.

Now that several speeches in their entirety have made it into the public domain, people can see what a racist lunatic, anti-science, angry man this Reverand Wright is.

And what does Obama say? This isn't the man I've known for twenty years. He doesn't represent how I feel.
Give me a break.

How do Foolsworth, Praetorian and I figure this guy out almost instantly and Obama is fooled for twenty years.

That is until an entire speech became very public.
And then it's "OMG, is that what my pastor believes. OMG."

Sure.:corn: :corn:

Now that several speeches in their entirety have made it into the public domain, people can see what a racist lunatic, anti-science, angry man this Reverand Wright is.

And what does Obama say? This isn't the man I've known for twenty years. He doesn't represent how I feel.
Give me a break.
BINGO!!!!!!!!!!

It's just amazing, IMO.

Since this started Obama has been saying what a great man the most reverand Jeremiah Wright is. He lauded him in his books, baptisms, $22,000, blah, blah, blah.On the contrary, since 'this' started, Obama has condemned the divisive remarks of Pastor Wright.
Those of us who criticized him were told "those are just snippets and soundbytes", "this is a criticism of the black church", "listen to it in the proper context", blah blah blah.I don't recall anyone here claiming this is an attack on the black church. As for the rest it's absolutely true that he has been judged by soundbites taken out of context.Now that several speeches in their entirety have made it into the public domain, people can see what a racist lunatic, anti-science, angry man this Reverand Wright is.If by racist you mean he hates white people I disagree -- and although he does have some odd notions regarding science I don't see how that makes him 'anti'. Angry? Undoubtedly. Lunatic? FT would probably agree with you there but I don't. I think Pastor Wright is a complex man who is a product of his times. He's different, that's for sure but I don't think he's crazy at all.And what does Obama say? This isn't the man I've known for twenty years. He doesn't represent how I feel.
Give me a break.Which break are you looking for? That Obama hasn't known Wright as a compassionate Christian, or that he doesn't represent how Obama feels?How do Foolsworth, Praetorian and I figure this guy out almost instantly and Obama is fooled for twenty years.I don't think you've figured him out in the least.That is until an entire speech became very public.
And then it's "OMG, is that what my pastor believes. OMG."

Sure.I doubt Obama is surprised to find out his Pastor thinks America has a shameful history of racial oppression. Nor do I think he was oblivious to the fact that Trinity Church advertises itself as "unashamedly black and unapologetically Christian". But things like "the government created AIDS" I don't see how he could have known unless he'd been in church when it was said or unless it came up in a private conversation. I think, with a lot of these remarks, that people assume Wright was going off like this all the time, that every sermon he ever made was chock full of these outlandish remarks. But Wright has published several collections of his sermons and they are overwhelmingly positive messages of hope and faith. Why do people think he's a screaming lunatic? Because of the soundbites they've been fed.

Now, as for the remarks made over the weekend and at the National Press Club, I have heard several theories. Some say he is mad at Obama for disavowing his remarks in the Philadelphia speech. Others say he is jealous of Obama for taking a place in the spotlight that should belong to Wright instead. But for whatever reason, one thing is perfectly clear: Wright's purpose in making these remarks was to torpedo Obama's campaign. Wright is an extremely intelligent man -- there's no way he could not know what he was doing. In Philadelphia Obama had refused to disown him, had given Wright the chance to rebuild their relationship. But Wright decided to do the opposite and in the process, as Obama pointed out, "made a caricature of himself". This is the man Obama says he did not meet twenty years ago: a childish and petulant man who would rather see Obama fail than become America's first black president.

I was called "prejudice",.........(by Freethinker)

I believe the word you're looking for is prejudiced.

With a *d*.

For someone to say of someone else ---"You are prejudice.".......would be equally nonsensical as saying -- "I took my car to the dealership for service and they made sure it was wash."

(I was called)....partisan......(by Freethinker)

True. I did call you that.

(and I was called).........various f-words by Freethinker.

What the.....?!?!?!

You're alleging that I called you "various f-words" over the topic of Obama/Wright..............?!?!?

Name one.

I searched all the associated threads and could not find one instance.

On the contrary, since 'this' started, Obama has condemned the divisive remarks of Pastor Wright.
"This" started before Barack's religion speech. Prior to that he defended Wright.
And in his book he went way beyond defending him. He praised him and treated him as his spiritual mentor.

As for the rest it's absolutely true that he has been judged by soundbites taken out of context.
Then I suppose you can say Obama has done the same thing.
An extensive collection of Wright's prior sermons are in print or on video and Barack condemned him based on just ten or fifteen lines from his most recent talks.

If by racist you mean he hates white people I disagree
Listen to his imitation of white people at the NAACP speech and his mocking of the way they pray. Maybe you don't see it as hating, but if you or I said it about black people it would definitely be called hate-speech.

-- and although he does have some odd notions regarding science I don't see how that makes him 'anti'.
I think when one disregards provable and proven facts that makes him anti.

I don't think you've figured him out in the least.
Yeah, maybe that was a bit of a bold statement on my part, but what I said about Wright last month, Obama seems to be feeling something similar this week.

I doubt Obama is surprised to find out his Pastor thinks America has a shameful history of racial oppression. Nor ...oblivious to ... "unashamedly black and unapologetically Christian". But things like "the government created AIDS" I don't see how he could have known unless he'd been in church when it was said or unless it came up in a private conversation.
Barack seems to have known him rather intimately for twenty years. If you feel he didn't know about the specific AIDS theories I can't prove otherwise.
But it's difficult to believe that he didn't know what this guy was all about.
Which didn't just mutate in the past week.

Why do people think he's a screaming lunatic? Because of the soundbites they've been fed.
Everyone, in politics or in their periphery is judged by the worst thing they have said.
In Wright's case there are just a lot more of them.

I have heard several theories. Some say he is mad at Obama ... Others say he is jealous of Obama... But for whatever reason, one thing is perfectly clear: Wright's purpose in making these remarks was to torpedo Obama's campaign.
I adamently disagree.
The way Obama can be hurt indirectly is if it is shown that his "former" pastor is a bad person. The more of a crazy shouting racist he can be shown to be, the worse Obama will look.
The problem is that someone who is diabolically egotistical enough to hurt a former friend out of jealousy wouldn't sacrifice his own reputation and credibility in order to do it.

This is the man Obama says he did not meet twenty years ago: a childish and petulant man who would rather see Obama fail than become America's first black president.
This perfectly threads the needle for Obama, doesn't it.


The bottom line is, Obama is a typical, parsing, twisting politician.
Some saw it as clearly as they saw the truth about Wright.

On the contrary, since 'this' started, Obama has condemned the divisive remarks of Pastor Wright.. he very plainly and clearly with 'gloves off' did just that.


As for the rest it's absolutely true that he has been judged by soundbites taken out of context.. IMO that has been proved without dispute on here in several threads.

I think Pastor Wright is a complex man who is a product of his times... No different than the old man who complains when a black family moves into a home on the block. they are both examples of products of a much different time.



I think, with a lot of these remarks, that people assume Wright was going off like this all the time, that every sermon he ever made was chock full of these outlandish remarks. But Wright has published several collections of his sermons and they are overwhelmingly positive messages of hope and faith. Why do people think he's a screaming lunatic? Because of the soundbites they've been fed....

Again this has been prove here. i myself thought the same things until i saw the videos and read the transcripts. I guess it is easier to judge someone based on 10% of who they are and what they believe rather than be educated on the other 90%

. But for whatever reason, one thing is perfectly clear: Wright's purpose in making these remarks was to torpedo Obama's campaign.
it is easier to simply hold Obama accountable. It makes for good TV

. In Philadelphia Obama had refused to disown him, had given Wright the chance to rebuild their relationship. But Wright decided to do the opposite. People do act much differently when they have the spotlight on them. If it wasnt for this not you or me would of even heard of Rev. Wright. Wright is relishing at this turn of events and it showed this past weekend. He is simply out to hurt Obama.

. This is the man Obama says he did not meet twenty years ago: a childish and petulant man who would rather see Obama fail than become America's first black president. it must be saddening to have someone you respect and love, a mentor,turn on you for 15 minutes of fame.

I think when one disregards provable and proven facts that makes him anti.Maybe they haven't been 'proven' to him.

If having an imperfect understanding of science makes one 'anti' then we all are.I adamently disagree.Of course you do.

Your theory of Obama's 'deception' relies on the premise that Wright was acting his normal and usual self last weekend.
The way Obama can be hurt indirectly is if it is shown that his "former" pastor is a bad person. The more of a crazy shouting racist he can be shown to be, the worse Obama will look.And isn't that exactly what happened?
The problem is that someone who is diabolically egotistical enough to hurt a former friend out of jealousy wouldn't sacrifice his own reputation and credibility in order to do it.This might be true of a purely rational person -- unfortunately, you have already posited that Wright is a "lunatic".

Wright is relishing at this turn of events and it showed this past weekend. He is simply out to hurt Obama.

it must be saddening to have someone you respect and love, a mentor,turn on you for 15 minutes of fame.It's obvious to me that this ordeal has been very painful for Obama. He could have denounced Wright the very day the remarks became public. He could have disowned him in his Philadelphia speech. It would have been expedient to do this but he didn't -- until he was left with absolutely no other choice. I see this as a positive side of Obama's character, while it shows Brooks a "typical, parsing, twisting politician".

Go figure.

He could have disowned him in his Philadelphia speech. It would have been expedient to do this but he didn't -- until he was left with absolutely no other choice..

Obama did leave the door open to mend the rift,if not publicly,then privately. Alot of people in a huge race that is so close would of dumped Rev Wright from the get-go.

I agree it did show a part of his character we normally dont see in politicians. I am not sure how this translates on how he can lead this country effectively,but none the less,we did get a rare glimpse of the real Obama,not the TelePrompter Obama,which is basically all we see in our politicians.

I agree it did show a part of his character we normally dont see in politicians. I am not sure how this translates on how he can lead this country effectively,but none the less,we did get a rare glimpse of the real Obama,not the TelePrompter Obama,which is basically all we see in our politicians.Personal loyalty can be an asset or a liability depending on circumstances. I think Bush, for example, kept Rumsfeld as Defense Secretary long past the point where his Iraq policies had been proven a failure. (And oddly enough, I suspect Bush may well empathize with Obama's situation). But loyalty in a friendship is different from loyalty in politics. Obama quickly ditched Samantha Power when she called Hillary a monster, so I'm not sure if he would be loyal to a fault as president.

Angry? Undoubtedly. Lunatic? FT would probably agree with you there but I don't.

If we're talking about being a *lunatic* because of his recent comments vis a vie America, then no, I do not regard him as being loony.

As to the Jeezus fantasy he bases his life and profession on, yes....he's a lunatic, as is everyone else who shares that particular religious meme.

But as to his comments about America, how America has treated blacks, how dishonest our political leaders have been in sending 4000 young soldiers to their deaths over a lie, and many other things he's said about America in his various sermons........he's quite sane. And absolutely correct.

The fact that Wright IS correct (but dares to speak about it to his church) is no doubt what causes the Dittoheads, rednecks and various factions of conservazombies that this country is overrun with to feel such animosity towards him.

1. He could have been expedient to do this but he didn't -- until he was left with absolutely no other choice.

2. I see this as a positive side of Obama's character, while it shows Brooks a "typical, parsing, twisting politician".
Go figure.
1. When he finally let loose on Wright he was being honest?
So he kept his honest feelings to himself, while hoping his less than honest statements would suffice.
Until he had no choice.

2. Yeah, go figure.

And isn't that exactly what happened?
Okay, but lemme ask you a question: do you still contend that Wright is a decent man? Seems to me like you're painting him in a different light now, but oddly enough, you're still defending him. So which is it, Sedan? Is the man, in your opinion, good or not? Doesn't sound to me like he's a real "man of god" - how 'bout you???

Okay, but lemme ask you a question: do you still contend that Wright is a decent man? Seems to me like you're painting him in a different light now, but oddly enough, you're still defending him. So which is it, Sedan? Is the man, in your opinion, good or not? Doesn't sound to me like he's a real "man of god" - how 'bout you???
he's not the biggest loon i've seen, just the biggest one to retire to a 10,000 sqft house in Tinley Park.

he's not the biggest loon i've seen, just the biggest one to retire to a 10,000 sqft house in Tinley Park.

:rolleyes:

I'd be willing to wager that some of the well know white religionists who are just as fucking loony as Jeremiah Wright --Hagee or Robertson or Falwell or LaHaye-- have houses just as big or bigger.

They're all infected with the same form of insanity (superstitious belief in angels, devils, god, etc).......but as least Wright is aware of what is going on in the political sphere. He knows that the scummy administration presently sitting in the White House has sent 4000 young people to their deaths over something that is a demonstrable LIE.

:rolleyes:

I'd be willing to wager that some of the well know white religionists who are just as fucking loony as Jeremiah Wright --Hagee or Robertson or Falwell or LaHaye-- have houses just as big or bigger.

do they bitch and moan about SF then move there? i thought not.

They're all infected with the same form of insanity (superstitious belief in angels, devils, god, etc).......but as least Wright is aware of what is going on in the political sphere. He knows that the scummy administration presently sitting in the White House has sent 4000 young people to their deaths over something that is a demonstrable LIE.
still waiting for you to demonstrate that.:bike:

When he finally let loose on Wright he was being honest?
So he kept his honest feelings to himself, while hoping his less than honest statements would suffice.To which "less than honest statements" are you referring?

I'd rather not guess at your meaning here.

Okay, but lemme ask you a question: do you still contend that Wright is a decent man? Seems to me like you're painting him in a different light now, but oddly enough, you're still defending him. So which is it, Sedan? Is the man, in your opinion, good or not? Doesn't sound to me like he's a real "man of god" - how 'bout you???Are you reduced to Pesci-like badgering now? Huh? Huh?

Of course I'm still defending Wright. He's been the victim of the most unjust political smear campaign I've ever seen. But does that make him perfect? Obviously not. Good and decent people can sometimes let their emotions get the better of them. Believe it or not, it happens all the time.

Are you reduced to Pesci-like badgering now? Huh? Huh?

Of course I'm still defending Wright. He's been the victim of the most unjust political smear campaign I've ever seen. But does that make him perfect? Obviously not. Good and decent people can sometimes let their emotions get the better of them. Believe it or not, it happens all the time.I dont understand what you mean by this sedan. Im not putting words in your mouth, just simply asking. Are you saying that he was forced into making his public blatherings?

Pastor Wright has been making hateful statements for twenty plus years. Not once during these twenty plus years did Barack Obama take him to task for these statements. Instead, Mr. Obama continued to sit in his pew, listening to the hate speech being spoken from the pulpit, he continued to support Pastor Wright with money, he praised him both in his book and in public, he had him baptize his children.

When Pastor Wright's words first hit the news, Mr. Obama tried to trivialize them, seperate them from the man speaking them, explain them away.

It was only after the words of Pastor Wright began costing Barack Obama that he finally condemned the man. If that isn't blatant political posturing I don't know what is.

I dont understand what you mean by this sedan. Im not putting words in your mouth, just simply asking. Are you saying that he was forced into making his public blatherings?Of course not. What I'm saying is that if you pick and choose a few selected comments out of a lifetime of speaking you can grossly distort how a person is seen by the public, and this is exactly what FoxNews did to Jeremiah Wright. I can do the same thing to Prae by endlessly repeating his remarks about Italians, like this:

Admittedly, the Italians were the worst offenders. Fucking Latins. Thank god for the sickle cell, right? Bwahahahahaha.

I mean, seriously, WTF are these people so "proud" of??? If I were a Mexican, I'd hang my head in shame, and if approached by anyone, I'd pretend I was Italian (not that being from Italy is that much better, but it is indeed a step up, nonetheless).

What a stupid fucking point. So by your reasoning, there is no "real" culture because it all came from somewhere else, right? Purely brilliant. Those goddamned Brazilians with their Spanish and Italian ancestry/culture.....you know, they've been pissing me off for years. And can you believe they have the balls to think they're unique?!?!
On cops:In my experience, the MAJORITY of them are lazy, power-hungry, wopps who work their cushy government job to the lowest common denominator of professionalism, and if not to add insult to injury, they're given WAAAAY too much authority and credibility. I've had then fabricate reports, lie to judges, and physically manhandle (IOW, assault) me when the cameras are turned. I think they're the scum of the earth. Have I ever met a good one? Yeah, but they're rare. And amazingly enough, they're never of Irish or Italian descent. Go figure.
A few more:
Of course, I have problem supporting the Italian-Americans. That's a given.

Illinois is a pretty big mix - mostly Irish and Italian here (and god, how I hate the latter).

Oddly enough, Prae got downright defensive the first time I posted this. One might even say he got a little bit angry. I think that what manifested itself last week was Wright giving vent to his anger in a very immature way. It's as though he said to himself "They want to see a crazy black preacher I'll show'em one". This is why Obama said he "made a caricature of himself".

As I said before, I think Wright is a very complex person and his anger runs very deep. But as Mike Huckabee has said, his anger is understandable, that if he (Huckabee) were a black man of Wright's age he'd be even angrier. There are those, however, who deliberately confuse anger with hate. I don't see the hatred in Wright. I see a lot of anger, some odd scientific beliefs and a blunt way of speaking, but I do not see the hatred. He is a decent man who has done far more good for the world than harm. He is a compassionate man and an outstanding preacher who takes his Christian faith seriously -- he actually believes that stuff in the Bible about loving your neighbor.

The Rev Wright that i see is a highly intelligent man. I honestly doubt he simply popped his top and said things in a blind rage. He's too smart to say some of the wild things he said. He said them because he has faith in what he said.

Sometimes our perception becomes warped when deep emotions are involved. Intelligence takes a back seat in those cases.

Are you reduced to Pesci-like badgering now?
STFU, or I'll knee-cap ya, ya prick, ya!

STFU, or I'll knee-cap ya, ya prick, ya!You're funny ... not like a clown funny. :)