I hope no one takes this as racist because I don't intend it to be, but there are real, not cultural, differences between blacks and whites.

It seems like the brains are actually different.
Why do black kids climb on the desks at school when they are supposed to be learning?
Why do blacks speak a different language (not a different accent, it seems like an actual different language)?
Why can't black kids learn from books?
Why is their music different from ours?
Have you noticed how different the marching band from Grambling sounds compared to bands from Boston? This shows a difference in how the brains interpret music.

I'm not saying either race is superior, just different.

here-
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o245/mikezila_bucket/trell2.jpg
you're gonna need this more than me...all those "differences" are cultural...or symptoms of learning disabilities.

Hmm... But I've heard that school shooting happened by white. Why?

I think the "kill your mother/kill your father" music got the blame in most school shootings... that and the shooters got picked on for being different,while making every attempt to stand out as being differernt.

if we are going to place labels on this aspect,black kids definetly have 'thicker skin' when it comes to growing up along side thier peers.

I hope no one takes this as racist because I don't intend it to be, but there are real, not cultural, differences between blacks and whites.

It seems like the brains are actually different.
Why do black kids climb on the desks at school when they are supposed to be learning?
Why do blacks speak a different language (not a different accent, it seems like an actual different language)?
Why can't black kids learn from books?
Why is their music different from ours?
Have you noticed how different the marching band from Grambling sounds compared to bands from Boston? This shows a difference in how the brains interpret music.

I'm not saying either race is superior, just different.

As enjoyable as your "dhramatic" posts can be Brooks, this one crosses the line into blatent racism, whether you intended it or not.

You may deny it but by saying black kids "cannot learn from books" and "climb on desks when they are supposed to be learning" IS racist.

Rather than bitching about what might be defined as racist, address the issues.

Why is it that after centuries of being in this country blacks seem like strangers in a strange land?

Rather than bitching about what might be defined as racist, address the issues.

The fact it is racist is the larger issue.


Why is it that after centuries of being in this country blacks seem like strangers in a strange land?

Because for most of that time they were either slaves or treated as second class citizens and they still are in some areas of the country.

i've noticed a LOT of white people get nervous when they have so little exposure around people of other "races". and i can guarentee you that it shows in body laguage, etc.. and those people of other colors see it.
some have angry backgrounds, some don't, some hate you all because you are white, some don't.
culture? pfffftt.......... what is "white" culture other than what comes out of a tv? just like most black people get theirs.
you'll see real humanity, if you drop every mother fucker into the woods with only a knife and a map. then you'll see cooperation.
but i can tell you, most white people dance with wooden hips.

Rather than bitching about what might be defined as racist, address the issues.

Why is it that after centuries of being in this country blacks seem like strangers in a strange land?

just like most white people? no real respect for the land. move around like they don't know where they belong. all their culture comes from a tv?

Why do black kids climb on the desks at school when they are supposed to be learning?

Where in the hell did you get this from? *shakes head*

I'm not saying either race is superior, just different.

That's exactly what you're saying. That you don't recognize it is as repugnant as it is disheartening.


Egad.

Why do you people keep acting as if there are no differences between the races. There are, no matter your pc barrage.

Having a few black friends, its only natural for me to see the differences between me and them. I've talked about it with them hoping to find out why it is i see these differences, to no avail.
One thing i've noticed is a sense of entitlement among every black friend i have. Every single one believes if they want something, it should be theirs, damn the rest of us. I dont know if they were taught at an early age to take anything they want or what. All i know is what i see.

Not a single black friend of mine will leave a tip when we're out to dinner until i mention something about them not leaving one. Then they'll begrudgingly throw a couple bucks down on large tab. One of my friends i refuse to go out to eat with any longer.

If i were to offer to pay the tab every time we go out, each of them would never protest and let me pay every time. This is one of the bigger differences between my black friends and my white friends.

Every single one of them make really good money working jobs that a trained gopher could do. Every one of them believe if they were white, they'd be making more money and have a higher position.

A couple of my friends have gone into sordid details about how whitey is holding them down once we had reached the right stage of inebriation. I find it strange that guys i consider friends seem to be repressing so much thought in day to day life that only alchohol can bring out.

It's entirely a phenomena of Culture.Blacks have been weaned to
believe in stereotype and all the entrapments of negativity.
Listening to Liberals,and their constant BS about wealth,
acquired wealth and priviledge,only reinforces an already
premeditated mindsetof negativity about a future free
of perceived and subliminal prejudice,like how blacks have been
portrayed in Movies etc.
That doesn't portend at all with what Booker T. Washington wanted
as his dream,antebellun South,where the black man had to LITERALLY
adopt a struggling to pick up by bootstrap mentality,just for a
meager existence.
Colin Powell and Condi Rice and Judge Clarence Thomas will stand as
reminders of what Booker T. Washington dreamed of.
It's entirely the onus of Liberal leftist Pols and Professors,this constant
Race divide we continue to moan & groan over.Obama and Sharpton
and Julian Bond and his NAACP have a dream.It's to put Whitey
on the Plantation.And they the Plantation masters.
That and - The Bell Curve - are viable explanations for this thread.

Why do you people keep acting as if there are no differences between the races.

No one said there weren't differences. However, the "differences" Brooks presented in his OP reveal a dramatically biased position.

How many black children have you seen "climbing on the desks at school when they are supposed to be learning?" Hell, how many children of any race have you seen "climbing on the desks at school when they are supposed to be learning?"

:rolleyes:

Not a single black friend of mine will leave a tip when we're out to dinner until i mention something about them not leaving one. Then they'll begrudgingly throw a couple bucks down on large tab. One of my friends i refuse to go out to eat with any longer.

If i were to offer to pay the tab every time we go out, each of them would never protest and let me pay every time. This is one of the bigger differences between my black friends and my white friends.

Perhaps you've got some black friends that are just really cheap. That ever occur to you?

I hope no one takes this as racist because I don't intend it to be, but there are real, not cultural, differences between blacks and whites.

What is your intention?

Why do black kids climb on the desks at school when they are supposed to be learning?
LMAO! Is this a joke??
Why do blacks speak a different language (not a different accent, it seems like an actual different language)?
Maybe because I’m brown I can understand both blacks and whites.

I'm not saying either race is superior, just different.

You're saying one thing but the differences you listed above are saying another. If you truly didn't believe that whites were superior to blacks, you would have listed differences in which whites were being scorned.

Why do you people keep acting as if there are no differences between the races.

Of course there are superficial differences, but the idea that black children "can't learn from books" or "climb on the desks when they are supposed to be learning" are not valid differences. They are racist stereotypes.


Every single one believes if they want something, it should be theirs, damn the rest of us.

That is an attitude prevelent among all Americans, not just blacks.


Not a single black friend of mine will leave a tip when we're out to dinner until i mention something about them not leaving one.

Speaking as someone who waited tables for years, I can say authoritatively that there is no racial component to whether or not someone tips well. The most likely factor to a good tipper is whether they have ever waited tables before themselves. The worst tippers are typically people who have never waited tables themselves.

Not a single black friend of mine will leave a tip when we're out to dinner until i mention something about them not leaving one. Then they'll begrudgingly throw a couple bucks down on large tab.


It's been years since I've worked in a restaurant, but this seemed to be a widespread reality among restaurant servers - if you get the black table, you can forget getting a tip and you can expect to get treated like crap on top of it.

I expect this is part of the reality behind why Obama has trouble getting a cab. Of course, this causes some racial backlash cause blacks will notice that non-blacks get better service....shocker huh?

Are there any people on these boards that have experienced this at all?

Speaking as someone who waited tables for years, I can say authoritatively that there is no racial component to whether or not someone tips well. The most likely factor to a good tipper is whether they have ever waited tables before themselves. The worst tippers are typically people who have never waited tables themselves.

I never noticed a racial component to my tips either. I agree that it often has a lot to do with whether or not the tipper ever waited tables for a living.

In addition, some people just don't know how to tip.

I know several generous, giving, thoughtful people who have no clue how to tip. They'll invariably try to leave 10% (which was the going rate for many decades) for basic service; I do my best to educate them. :)

In addition, some people just don't know how to tip.

I know several generous, giving, thoughtful people who have no clue how to tip. They'll invariably try to leave 10% (which was the going rate for many decades) for basic service; I do my best to educate them. :)

I agree, I try to do the same thing.

I am always amazed at how many people have no idea what the "server's wage" is.

I hope no one takes this as racist because I don't intend it to be, but there are real, not cultural, differences between blacks and whites.
It seems like the brains are actually different.
Why do black kids climb on the desks at school when they are supposed to be learning?

You make this sound like it's really widespread. Anywho, the best answer is probably because the teachers are afraid of the students and they don't stop them. The kids aren't held accountable for their actions, either.

Why do blacks speak a different language (not a different accent, it seems like an actual different language)?

It's just a dialect.

Why can't black kids learn from books?

This goes back to the teachers being afraid of their students. They survive the work day, drive back to the suburbs and as long as they get that check in the mail everything is peachy.

Why is their music different from ours?

Why is middle eastern music different? At the end of the day, there's tons of different kinds of music and what people enjoy is largely cultural. Blacks have a different culture.

This is an easy problem to untangle.

Being poor is detrimental to parenting (wealthier parents have more time to spend with their kids).
Blacks are poor at higher rates than whites.
Therefore, blacks overall have less time for their kids than whites.
Therefore, black children are more likely to have behavioral problems than white children.

It isn't a question of race; it's a question of wealth. Black middle-class children and white middle-class children are probably indistinguishable. Same with poor black children and poor white children.

It isn't a question of race; it's a question of wealth. Black middle-class children and white middle-class children are probably indistinguishable. Same with poor black children and poor white children.

Not according to the studies - middle-class blacks also tip less than middle-class whites.

http://www.hotelschool.cornell.edu/research/chr/pubs/reports/abstract-13851.html

Not according to the studies - middle-class blacks also tip less than middle-calss whites.

http://www.hotelschool.cornell.edu/research/chr/pubs/reports/abstract-13851.html
I was talking about the "jumping on desks" bit, not necessarily tipping. Children wouldn't have occasion to tip, anyway.

This is an easy problem to untangle.

Being poor is detrimental to parenting (wealthier parents have more time to spend with their kids).
Blacks are poor at higher rates than whites.
Therefore, blacks overall have less time for their kids than whites.
Therefore, black children are more likely to have behavioral problems than white children.

It isn't a question of race; it's a question of wealth. Black middle-class children and white middle-class children are probably indistinguishable. Same with poor black children and poor white children.

Abject hogwash.You've haven't a clue as to what th'ell yer yalkin
about.The wealthier one is the more busy they are.Granted Poor
parents have to do more chores and have dual incomes to make
ends meet,but they also have uncomplicated lives,after work.
Having Wealth means KEEPING it and acquiring more.That means
Social status and all the trappings.Usually the wealthy,manage to
send thier kids off to boarding school,because of it.Also because their
turds as humans and simply don't wanna bother with the trivial
pursuit nature of mere rearing and bonding with their kids.They'd
much ruther be playing golf,or tennis or at the Country club,shopping
or attending dinners,functions of their Ego's and station in life.
I harken back to how little it really costs to teach a kid.
I pad and pencil and some library books is all it takes.Of course the
parent has to be Literate,as well.
Having Manners costs even less.
Dig Daddio ?

I was talking about the "jumping on desks" bit, not necessarily tipping. Children wouldn't have occasion to tip, anyway.

Fair enough - this seems obvious after re-reading your post...think I mentally bunched your post up with Fran's and dharma's.

I think African Americans are in a unique situation in the US. They cant trace their history back to any exact location [apar from Africa].

This being the case I think they have and are developing a distinct culture for themselves, whether that culture is a good thing or a bad thing is immaterial, they are defining themselves as a people, a process which is still in its infancy.

I think African Americans are in a unique situation in the US. They cant trace their history back to any exact location [apar from Africa].

This being the case I think they have and are developing a distinct culture for themselves, whether that culture is a good thing or a bad thing is immaterial, they are defining themselves as a people, a process which is still in its infancy.

Richard Nixon (former U.S. president) said something similar along these lines. Personally, I think it's a copout excuse, because I, like many Americans, come from a mishmesh of cultural backgrounds and that doesn't affect who I am in the least bit - I'm supposed to be about 1/2 Dutch, but I don't know a damn thing about Dutch culture, nor can I think of one thing I do that I can attribute to Dutch influence. Maybe something my parents taught me has some Dutch origin, but there has never been any sort of recognition of that in my family. African Americans have the same thing - their original culture has been lost in the past century or so...there may be some unrecognized remnants of this culture, but few people really know or care if there are.

That's the reality of "melting pot" America.

I think African Americans are in a unique situation in the US. They cant trace their history back to any exact location [apar from Africa].

This being the case I think they have and are developing a distinct culture for themselves, whether that culture is a good thing or a bad thing is immaterial, they are defining themselves as a people, a process which is still in its infancy.

You may have hit onto somethin.Because Italians,The Irish, Poles,
Germans certainly have flourishes and done well despite their differing
cultures.Blacks are VERY beholdin to Peer Pressure and Fads.

I think African Americans are in a unique situation in the US. They cant trace their history back to any exact location [apar from Africa].

This being the case I think they have and are developing a distinct culture for themselves, whether that culture is a good thing or a bad thing is immaterial, they are defining themselves as a people, a process which is still in its infancy.

I somewhat agree, Paul. Except I don't think they're necessarily 'developing a distinct culture' as they are hanging on to past traditions to avoid losing their identity. One of the most insulting things a black person can call another black person is OREO (black on the outside, white on the inside).

Having worked with many AA's over the years, one thing about them that's always proven true, no matter how high their position... they act different around white people than they act around each other. One good example of that in the news lately is black churches. Another example... a group of black engineers who act as professional and dignified as their white counterparts in a meeting situation... but let them all meet in the hall afterward to discuss last night's basketball game and you'll see a totally different side of them.

Never noticed the tipping thing when I'm out with black co-workers, but one thing I have noticed... some are extremely PICKY with their food orders. We've all threatened to exclude one gal because she's so embarrassing when placing her order. "I want the #4, except instead of green beans, I want red beans, and I want the meat well done... be SURE it's well done... and bring my salad first... dressing on the side... and I'll just have water w/lemon to drink." [to which she adds sugar and makes her own lemonade... for FREE]. She does tip, but I've never noticed how much. She should be very generous considering what she puts waitpeople thru! A friend who owned a restaurant recently assures me this is much more common among blacks than any other race. He also told me he was constantly being asked to waive their entire check because something wasn't served to their liking. (even after they'd already eaten it!)

Like Brooks said... not saying it's good... not saying it's bad. But it is 'different' than the way most white people act.

:)
SMW

[QUOTE=smartmouthwoman]I somewhat agree, Paul. Except I don't think they're necessarily 'developing a distinct culture' as they are hanging on to past traditions to avoid losing their identity. One of the most insulting things a black person can call another black person is OREO (black on the outside, white on the inside).

Having worked with many AA's over the years, one thing about them that's always proven true, no matter how high their position... they act different around white people than they act around each other. One good example of that in the news lately is black churches. Another example... a group of black engineers who act as professional and dignified as their white counterparts in a meeting situation... but let them all meet in the hall afterward to discuss last night's basketball game and you'll see a totally different side of them.

Never noticed the tipping thing when I'm out with black co-workers, but one thing I have noticed... some are extremely PICKY with their food orders. We've all threatened to exclude one gal because she's so embarrassing when placing her order. "I want the #4, except instead of green beans, I want red beans, and I want the meat well done... be SURE it's well done... and bring my salad first... dressing on the side... and I'll just have water w/lemon to drink." [to which she adds sugar and makes her own lemonade... for FREE]. She does tip, but I've never noticed how much. She should be very generous considering what she puts waitpeople thru! A friend who owned a restaurant recently assures me this is much more common among blacks than any other race. He also told me he was constantly being asked to waive their entire check because something wasn't served to their liking. (even after they'd already eaten it!)

Like Brooks said... not saying it's good... not saying it's bad. But it is 'different' than the way most white people act.

*****************************************
Blacks { most all } have adopted a Get even strategy when shopping.
It also applies to restaurants.They take their time paying for their
purchases and also when placing their food orders.
It's their small way of makin Whitey wait.
As if ALL whites are personally responsible for the schackles and
that arduous slave trader boat trip to America.

Dhrama: As enjoyable as your "dhramatic" posts can be Brooks, this one crosses the line into blatent racism, whether you intended it or not.
- You may deny it but by saying black kids "cannot learn from books" and "climb on desks when they are supposed to be learning" IS racist.
- The fact it is racist is the larger issue.
- the idea that black children "can't learn from books" or "climb on the desks when they are supposed to be learning" are not valid differences. They are racist stereotypes.

Frannie: "Where in the hell did you get this from? *shakes head*
That you don't recognize it is as repugnant as it is disheartening.
- However, the "differences" Brooks presented in his OP reveal a dramatically biased position.

Googs: LMAO! Is this a joke??
- If you truly didn't believe that whites were superior to blacks, you would have listed differences in which whites were being scorned.

For your information everyone, EVERYTHING I said in the opening post is right from Reverend Wright's keynote address before the NAACP, even the explanation of the differences between black and white marching bands.

I agree with you Dhrama, Frannie and Googs -
It IS blatant racism, prejudiced, dramatically biased and a joke.

PLEASE watch the entire speech and enjoy his impersonations of white people.
http://www.hiphopmusic.com/2008/04/rev_wright_naacp_speech_video.html

For your information everyone, EVERYTHING I said in the opening post is right from Reverend Wright's keynote address before the NAACP, even the explanation of the differences between black and white marching bands.

Wow, you are obsessed with that poor guy.

Let it go Brooks. He isn't running for anything.

For your information everyone, EVERYTHING I said in the opening post is right from Reverend Wright's keynote address before the NAACP, even the explanation of the differences between black and white marching bands.

I agree with you Dhrama, Frannie and Googs -
It IS blatant racism, prejudiced, dramatically biased and a joke.

PLEASE watch the entire speech and enjoy his impersonations of white people.
http://www.hiphopmusic.com/2008/04/rev_wright_naacp_speech_video.html

Good one, Brooks. Got 'em.

:lolhit: :lolhit: :lolhit:

Wow, you are obsessed with that poor guy.
Let it go Brooks. He isn't running for anything.
Hey Dhrama, YOU'RE the one who said " blatent racism", "IS racist", "racist stereotypes", not me.

Hey Dhrama, YOU'RE the one who said " blatent racism", "IS racist", "racist stereotypes", not me.

I was responding to something you said. The only context I was responding to was the one YOU decided to put those comments in.

I was responding to something you said. The only context I was responding to was the one YOU decided to put those comments in.
why does it matter who said it?

why does it matter who said it?

Why use the word " it " ...Danny ?
Because you'd bee in Eubonics land.
Is all.
And we'd be back to square one.

why does it matter who said it?

Yes, but context is even more important.
Brooks decided to take whatever Rev. Wright said completely out of context and put them in his own words.

It is like the difference between a white guy saying the N word and a black guy saying the N word. It is considered racist when the white guy does it because of context.

Yes, but context is even more important.
Brooks decided to take whatever Rev. Wright said completely out of context and put them in his own words.

It is like the difference between a white guy saying the N word and a black guy saying the N word. It is considered racist when the white guy does it because of context.
ok-special privileges for a different race. thanks for making it clear you're a racist.

Yes, but context is even more important.
Brooks decided to take whatever Rev. Wright said completely out of context and put them in his own words.
Please watch the tape. Please tell me the proper context.
Believe me, when you see this, it's worse.

These things are nearly quotes.

I don’t necessarily agree with Wright’s right-brain/left-brain theories. There’s probably something to it, but regardless, Brooks' OP does not accurately reflect Wright’s words or meaning.

Brooks’ interpretation remains biased (and political).

EVERYTHING I said in the opening post is right from Reverend Wright's keynote address before the NAACP

Really? "RIGHT" from Reverend Wright's speech? I don't think so.

Wright didn’t say “black kids climb on the desks at school when they are supposed to be learning.” What he said was, “When [schools] were desegregated in Philadelphia, several of the white teachers in my school freaked out. Why? Because black kids wouldn't stay in their place.”

Wright didn’t say “black kids can’t learn from books.” He said that black children learn using different skill sets (oral, primarily), and that as a result, some of them “have difficulty reading.”

Wright’s overarching point is that black people have had a completely different experience than white people have had in this country (yes, including the roots of their music), and therefore they are different in many ways. And that is surely true, at least to some extent. However, you are attempting to twist that message to suit your political agenda, by pretending that Wright has labeled his race insouciant and illiterate (among other things).

This is just pathetic. :slap:

That is an attitude prevelent among all Americans, not just blacks.
Not to the extent of the black people i know. Im speaking to the exclusion of all other concerns about anyone else. It's something ingrained.



Speaking as someone who waited tables for years, I can say authoritatively that there is no racial component to whether or not someone tips well. The most likely factor to a good tipper is whether they have ever waited tables before themselves. The worst tippers are typically people who have never waited tables themselves. I disagree completely with this. I've never waited tables. In fact, what does that have to do with anything? Are you saying it's impossible to appreciate the effort waitstaff puts into making your dining experience enjoyable if you never waited tables before?

I disagree completely with this. I've never waited tables. In fact, what does that have to do with anything? Are you saying it's impossible to appreciate the effort waitstaff puts into making your dining experience enjoyable if you never waited tables before?

Do you know what the "server's wage" is?

Brooks’ interpretation remains biased (and political).


Really? "RIGHT" from Reverend Wright's speech? I don't think so.

Wright didn’t say “black kids climb on the desks at school when they are supposed to be learning.” What he said was, “When [schools] were desegregated in Philadelphia, several of the white teachers in my school freaked out. Why? Because black kids wouldn't stay in their place.”

Wright didn’t say “black kids can’t learn from books.” He said that black children learn using different skill sets (oral, primarily), and that as a result, some of them “have difficulty reading.”

Wright’s overarching point is that black people have had a completely different experience than white people have had in this country (yes, including the roots of their music), and therefore they are different in many ways. And that is surely true, at least to some extent. However, you are attempting to twist that message to suit your political agenda, by pretending that Wright has labeled his race insouciant and illiterate (among other things).

This is just pathetic. :slap:
SLAM.

Nuff said.

Richard Nixon (former U.S. president) said something similar along these lines. Personally, I think it's a copout excuse, because I, like many Americans, come from a mishmesh of cultural backgrounds and that doesn't affect who I am in the least bit - I'm supposed to be about 1/2 Dutch, but I don't know a damn thing about Dutch culture, nor can I think of one thing I do that I can attribute to Dutch influence. Maybe something my parents taught me has some Dutch origin, but there has never been any sort of recognition of that in my family. African Americans have the same thing - their original culture has been lost in the past century or so...there may be some unrecognized remnants of this culture, but few people really know or care if there are.

That's the reality of "melting pot" America.

I have to say,the Dutch are one of those Northern European races that,along with English,German,blend into a comfortable WASPish tradition which would have been in full bloom in America when your ancestors arrived there, whenever that may have been.
A good example would have been the mass Irish intake in the mid 19th century.
They werent part of that comfortable WASPish notion, and as a result were
discriminated against,and kept to themselves pretty much, as seen to this day in vast Irish American nitches all over the Union.

So,I think maybe Irish would be the closest white people to experience how African Americans felt/feel.

I just watched his Wright's speech through Brooks's link. I thought it was a very interesting speech - it teeters on the brink of racism by identifying the number of "differences" between European Americans and African Americans. He's very clear about not assigning value to these differences by repeatedly saying "different but not deficient," however I can't help but muse that most racism is founded on the belief that races are different from one another.

His arguments are very dangerous in that respect. The dated belief that Africans were inferior started with the belief that Africans were intellectually inferior - similarly, Wright makes a distinction between African brains and European brains - Africans are "right-brained" (e.g. more creative and less linear) and audial learners (learn from sounds, like people and music) and Europeans are "left-brained" (e.g. better at logic and problem-solving) and object-oriented learners (e.g. learn from objects, like books). Frankly, I think his distinctions would indicate that African brains are "deficient," if his beliefs held true, because left-brained thinking (advancement in engineering, math, and science) is what is responsible for the progress of civilization. However, I don't think his distinctions are true, because European civilizations made huge leaps in "right-brained" academics as well as "left-brained" academics.

If I were to believe Wright's speech, I would believe that Africa, in its current state, is just "different" from Europe, not worse off. But I don't believe that - Africa exists in a "deficient" state, whatever you think is the cause - if I were to believe Wright in part, I would believe Africa is in its current state because of an inherited difference in African people.

I disagree completely with this. I've never waited tables. In fact, what does that have to do with anything? Are you saying it's impossible to appreciate the effort waitstaff puts into making your dining experience enjoyable if you never waited tables before?

Wow. Way to extrapolate!

Since you've never tried to make a living waiting tables, you might want to consider the following before saying anything else... :)

First of all, waiters and waitresses are guaranteed to be paid minimum wage and nothing more; less, if the employer can get away with it (such as being paid cash/under the table so the employer can cheat on his employee income taxes).

Second, you don't get to work 40 hours a week, Monday through Friday; it's usually more like 20-26 hours a week and some of that is split-shift work (which makes it next to impossible to hold a second job). In addition, your days off will change with the season/weather/civic events/etc.

Third, because you're a part-time worker, you get no benefits - no healthcare, no sick days, no retirement, nothing.

Fourth, you'll work every holiday. (This doesn't mean anything in relation to tipping; just thought I'd toss it in as one more insight into the life of a waitress/waiter.)

Finally, tips make up a far larger percentage of take-home pay than does the actual paycheck. A week's worth of customers thinking a 10% is the standard tip in a restaurant, and you won't be able pay your rent next month. (There are millions of people still using 10% as their restaurant tipping guide, trust me on this!)

So, Reverend Wright is racist towards both whites and blacks. I guess that means Obama hates everyone except Asians.

Wow. Way to extrapolate!

Since you've never tried to make a living waiting tables, you might want to consider the following before saying anything else... :)

First of all, waiters and waitresses are guaranteed to be paid minimum wage and nothing more; less, if the employer can get away with it (such as being paid cash/under the table so the employer can cheat on his employee income taxes).

Second, you don't get to work 40 hours a week, Monday through Friday; it's usually more like 20-26 hours a week and some of that is split-shift work (which makes it next to impossible to hold a second job). In addition, your days off will change with the season/weather/civic events/etc.

Third, because you're a part-time worker, you get no benefits - no healthcare, no sick days, no retirement, nothing.

Fourth, you'll work every holiday. (This doesn't mean anything in relation to tipping; just thought I'd toss it in as one more insight into the life of a waitress/waiter.)

Finally, tips make up a far larger percentage of take-home pay than does the actual paycheck. A week's worth of customers thinking a 10% is the standard tip in a restaurant, and you won't be able pay your rent next month. (There are millions of people still using 10% as their restaurant tipping guide, trust me on this!)

Servers (and other tipped employees) are required to be paid at least $2 an hour... NOT minimum wage.

All the other "facts" Frannie posted depend entirely on the employer. Some servers work 40 hour weeks, just like everybody else. Some servers are covered by health insurance, get sick days, vacation and retirement benefits, as well as cost-of-living increases and other benefits like flight privileges (mainly airport workers) and reduced rates at participating hotels (hotel workers). Most tipped employees fight over who gets to work holidays and weekends, since that's usually when they make the most in tips.

As usual, Frannie's TRUTH isn't exactly true.

Trust me on that statement.

;)
SMW

First of all, waiters and waitresses are guaranteed to be paid minimum wage and nothing more
the Federal minimum doesn't always apply.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S.A._minimum_wages

You are correct, and I misspoke.

I waited tables in California. California requires employers to pay tipped employees the same minimum that everyone else gets, because it excludes tips from the minimum wage calculation.

How foolish of me to not realize that other states treat wait staff even worse! Still, that little point should go even further in helping you to understand why tips are so important to waiters and waitresses.

:)

You are correct, and I misspoke.

I waited tables in California. California requires employers to pay tipped employees the same minimum that everyone else gets, because it excludes tips from the minimum wage calculation.

How foolish of me to not realize that other states treat wait staff even worse! Still, that little point should go even further in helping you to understand why tips are so important to waiters and waitresses.

:)
oh, i know, and that's what i was thinking....i just wanted everyone to be on the same page.

I have to say,the Dutch are one of those Northern European races that,along with English,German,blend into a comfortable WASPish tradition which would have been in full bloom in America when your ancestors arrived there, whenever that may have been.
A good example would have been the mass Irish intake in the mid 19th century.
They werent part of that comfortable WASPish notion, and as a result were
discriminated against,and kept to themselves pretty much, as seen to this day in vast Irish American nitches all over the Union.

So,I think maybe Irish would be the closest white people to experience how African Americans felt/feel.

The Dutch were here by 1640.

I'm not aware of any vast Irish conclaves here in the US outside of Chicago and parts of New York. Most assimilated very well and rather rapidly, compared to other groups of immigrants, for example, the Italians or Poles, who are fairly clannish even now.

The Dutch were here by 1640.

I'm not aware of any vast Irish conclaves here in the US outside of Chicago and parts of New York. Most assimilated very well and rather rapidly, compared to other groups of immigrants, for example, the Italians or Poles, who are fairly clannish even now.
the Irish own Boston.

I'm about to start a job waitressing and I will be making $3.15 and hour, which is supposedly the minimum wage for waiters in my state. Fortunately I'll be working Friday nights and Sunday afternoons, which are basically the busiest times for a pizza place, according to the manager. So I should be making some OK tips.

Well well.. ain't THIS one a juicy topic.

I always enjoy talking about racism, because it is so prevelant in our society... AND i can add tons of incite to the business of waiting tables, as i did it for 4 years.

I also like watching dharma get backed into a corner and then squeal out of it like a spanked piglet... at least he thinks he keeps his integrity.

But, back to the matter at hand. The cultures are different. I've experienced much interaction with both races. I've been downtown where the black folk are loud, obnoxious, swear, cuss, wear their pants down to their knees, corn-rolls, and ask me what the fuck i'm looking at... "cracker". I've been in the suburbs where black men are respectful, kind, have good demeanor, and were great to converse with and become friends with... however, the latter are also HATED by their fellow "niggas" down in the ghetto, who say that "act white" and are "oreos"...

I've seen white boys out here in the trashy suburbs who drive a POS plymoth with a $500 stereo system that makes the entire car shake like a maracca, they emulate all the "ghetto" stereotypes, wear big chains the saw on music videos, cuss, swear, and just wish they were black. And I've seen plenty of white folk downtown who didn't by into the whole "feel guilty for being white" bullshit that racist black folk try to turn everything into.

So what the hell? I see two white ghetto guys callin each other "niggas"... are they racist? No, because race and culture are two totally different things.

I will go on record saying I very much dislike the black, ghetto culture. The hip-hop, fuck you, i'm the shit, whats up bitch, I'm so fly kind of bullshit. However, just because that culture came from african americans doesn't mean that it is only restricted to such. Like I said earlier.. wiggers are everywhere. They probably outnumber ghetto blacks in tons of areas. Just like some black folk enjoy "white" country music.. it goes both ways.

Why do certain white people "act black" and why do certain black people "act white"? Probably how they were raised, who their friends are, and their personality type. Some people will do anything to get accepted, and some people will do anything to get a girl, even if it means not being themselves. I mean, music videos show all those ghetto guys with big booty bitches all time, so it must work.. right? And emo music videos always show the 120 lb guy with make up being such a dream to this hot chick, so all you have to do is get your hair done like a girl, buy make up, and wear girls jeans and you're a sexual superstar!

As for restaurants.. I worked at a Tony Roma's (middle class, white trash, ghetto), Red Tail (upper upper class), House of Blues (middle class, ghetto), and cheesecake factory (upperclass). They all had different norms there, as far as what kind of crowd showed up.

I can tell you this much... I definitely noticed trends. At House of Blues in downtown cleveland, I would notice a definite raise in tipping depending on color, but it wasn't absolute. I noticed that black folk takin their biatch out on a date would both buy a NY strip steak well done with a bottle of A1 sauce, 3 sides of ketchup, mayonaise, mustard, ranch, blue cheese, hot sauce and whatever for their french fries. They'd buy specialty drinks, rack up a bill of $90 for the 2 of them, and then leave real quick leaving me $92.53. That wasn't uncommon. Hell, I would have mullet man come into Tony Roma's and order big ass ribs, sit at the table all day with their fat ugly wife and 6 kids, wasting my time and ultimately stopping me from making money.. ask me for all sorts of favors, and then stiff me. Not a dime. All I can say is you can tell 85% of the time right off the bat if a table is going to be a good tipper or not by their demeanor, their facial expressions, and their manners. It all runs pretty much together.. i would get surprised though, and sometimes a lot in one night.

Oh well, that's all I have to say about that... For now.

The Dutch were here by 1640.

I'm not aware of any vast Irish conclaves here in the US outside of Chicago and parts of New York. Most assimilated very well and rather rapidly, compared to other groups of immigrants, for example, the Italians or Poles, who are fairly clannish even now.

Irish enclaves may be slightly strong in national terms yes,tho they do bunch in certain states.
That said, after their showing in the civil war they were slowly accepted into American society, and felt more comfortable about spreading out,tho still
'bunching' in certain states.

I'm about to start a job waitressing and I will be making $3.15 and hour, which is supposedly the minimum wage for waiters in my state. Fortunately I'll be working Friday nights and Sunday afternoons, which are basically the busiest times for a pizza place, according to the manager. So I should be making some OK tips.

It is customary at some places for you to tip the bartender, bus-boy and even the hostess sometimes. Make sure you find out all that ahead of time so there is no "dhrama".

:)

Couple of questions:

1. Whats a 'busboy' ?

2. Wasnt starbucks ordered to re-pay tips it had included in waiting staff wages a couple of years ago ?

a bus boy is the 16 year old kid who has never met a comb who cleans all the shit up after people. As a server, you have to give them a percentage of your tips because they do part of your job.

It is customary at some places for you to tip the bartender, bus-boy and even the hostess sometimes. Make sure you find out all that ahead of time so there is no "dhrama".

:)
There is no bartender or busboy at Ledo's. The waiters clean off their own tables and there is no bar. I think there's a hostess, but the manager said that at the end of the night I give him all the money and he looks at my checks on the computer and all the money after covering the checks is mine. So I assume I don't have to share it with anyone else.

For your information everyone, EVERYTHING I said in the opening post is right from Reverend Wright's keynote address before the NAACP, even the explanation of the differences between black and white marching bands.

I agree with you Dhrama, Frannie and Googs -
It IS blatant racism, prejudiced, dramatically biased and a joke.

PLEASE watch the entire speech and enjoy his impersonations of white people.
http://www.hiphopmusic.com/2008/04/rev_wright_naacp_speech_video.html

I’m puzzled as why you would pretend that these declarations are from you. But whether that was from you or Rev. Wright, it's racist.

With that said, I didn’t watch the video. But on the issue as a whole, I think Borg is spot on in his observation. It’s got nothing to do with race; it has more to do with socio-economic status.

There is no bartender or busboy at Ledo's. The waiters clean off their own tables and there is no bar. I think there's a hostess, but the manager said that at the end of the night I give him all the money and he looks at my checks on the computer and all the money after covering the checks is mine. So I assume I don't have to share it with anyone else.

be glad there is no bartender. I never got why they would get some of your tips even though they get their own tips and a make a shitload more than you. They get a buck for a $2 beer.. and you get $2 for a $20 sandwhich and drink.

I never minded not working without a busboy... but when kids come in and throw ketchup and barf all over the table... i'm glad they are around;)

Is there a going rate for tipping-like 10% or summit ?

For customers or for servers tipping busboys?

Is there a going rate for tipping-like 10% or summit ?

It varies. Here are some basic guidelines (http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2006/10/12/basic-tips-on-tipping-how-much-and-to-whom/).

Frannie: "Wright didn’t say “black kids climb on the desks at school when they are supposed to be learning.” What he said was, “When [schools] were desegregated in Philadelphia, several of the white teachers in my school freaked out. Why? Because black kids wouldn't stay in their place.”
Brooks: Here's the rest of the sentence: "Over there, behind their desks. Black kids climbed up all on 'em."
Check out 3:11 on this video
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=wright+keynote+naacp&hl=en&sitesearch=

Frannie: "Wright didn’t say “black kids can’t learn from books.” He said that black children learn using different skill sets (oral, primarily), and that as a result, some of them “have difficulty reading.”
Brooks: Actually, in the rest of the sentence he said that black kids have difficulty learning from books because they "have difficulty reading from an object" as if there is a difference between the black and white brain.
More racist tripe.
At 3:25 on this video
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=wright+keynote+naacp&hl=en&sitesearch=

Frannie: "This is just pathetic."
Brooks: "On that we can agree"


I'm not faulting you for not having the full quotes because your news source is probably putting a better face on what he said.
Please watch the whole speech. You'll get the full picture.

I'm about to start a job waitressing and I will be making $3.15 and hour, t.

Whoa, it's $8 here. The cost of living is most likely higher here though. Isn't that way under federal minimum wage? Or does that not apply here?

But on the issue as a whole, I think Borg is spot on in his observation. It’s got nothing to do with race; it has more to do with socio-economic status.
I agree with you.
I'm just curious what the Wright defenders have to say.

Is there a going rate for tipping-like 10% or summit ?
10% if you're some cheap bastard.

but i can tell you, most white people dance with wooden hips.
Yeah - what else ya got? That we can't throw, bounce, hit, or kick a ball as well? Yep, you got us.

In addition, some people just don't know how to tip.
Come-the-fuck-on, Fran. Are you kidding me? If that's the case, then I guess making complicated calculations such as moving a decimal place over one spot and multiplying by two should be left the "wooden hipped" amongst us.

Poor, poor misunderstood black people, eh? :rolleyes:

So, Reverend Wright is racist towards both whites and blacks. I guess that means Obama hates everyone except Asians.
Lucky you.

the idea that blacks can dance and white people cant was truth 30 years ago.. but now it's just out-dated. Black guys put on all their FUBU, huge jeans, bling, grills, and tie-on condom hats and just jump up and down to crunk music like little John and think they are dancing.

Hell, most of the rappers nowadays can't even dance. Snoop dogg sure can't, nor can Sean Paul and the like.. they talk to the camera, and if they dance it's one move in slow motion... that's a great way to cover up for a rapper's lack of dance... quick clips and slow motion.

Come-the-fuck-on, Fran. Are you kidding me? If that's the case, then I guess making complicated calculations such as moving a decimal place over one spot and multiplying by two should be left the "wooden hipped" amongst us.

Poor, poor misunderstood black people, eh? :rolleyes:

Who's talking about black people?!? The individuals I mentioned who don't know how to tip are my mother and my cousin (both white; they were here visiting this past week, and every time a check came, neither one could figure what to do). Edited to add that mom is 83 and cousin is 67.

Sheesh.

Wow. Way to extrapolate!

Since you've never tried to make a living waiting tables, you might want to consider the following before saying anything else... :)

First of all, waiters and waitresses are guaranteed to be paid minimum wage and nothing more; less, if the employer can get away with it (such as being paid cash/under the table so the employer can cheat on his employee income taxes).

Second, you don't get to work 40 hours a week, Monday through Friday; it's usually more like 20-26 hours a week and some of that is split-shift work (which makes it next to impossible to hold a second job). In addition, your days off will change with the season/weather/civic events/etc.

Third, because you're a part-time worker, you get no benefits - no healthcare, no sick days, no retirement, nothing.

Fourth, you'll work every holiday. (This doesn't mean anything in relation to tipping; just thought I'd toss it in as one more insight into the life of a waitress/waiter.)

Finally, tips make up a far larger percentage of take-home pay than does the actual paycheck. A week's worth of customers thinking a 10% is the standard tip in a restaurant, and you won't be able pay your rent next month. (There are millions of people still using 10% as their restaurant tipping guide, trust me on this!)Frannie, thank you for your explaination. It was uneccessary, however. I already knew all of this. Having this prior knowledge is what motivates me to tip as well as I do when i get good service. I've never been a 15%'er. If i have good service It's 20% or even more depending on circumstances.

old people are out of the loop.. 10% was a big tip 40 years ago... now it's not enough to live off of.

old people are out of the loop.. 10% was a big tip 40 years ago... now it's not enough to live off of.

Yup. I don't know how Prae thought I was slamming black people for not knowing how to tip. That little problem is more a function of age than anything else.

Whoa, it's $8 here. The cost of living is most likely higher here though. Isn't that way under federal minimum wage? Or does that not apply here?
Waiters don't make minimum wage in most states... They factor in the average tips to account for the difference or something.

old people are out of the loop.. 10% was a big tip 40 years ago... now it's not enough to live off of.
depends on what you're getting...a cup of coffee and a slice of pie could be $3.50...even at 20%, that's a whopping 70 cents. i'd to embarrassed to ever go back if i left 70 cents.

otoh...it's not hard to run up a $70 check with strip mall Chinese food, $7 is plenty if the service was only adequate.

If you have a huge bill, I don't see the problem with tipping 10%. If your bill is smaller you should tip more. Serving you still takes about the same amount of time and effort for the waiter, even if you only get an appetizer and a glass of water.

If you have a huge bill, I don't see the problem with tipping 10%. If your bill is smaller you should tip more. Serving you still takes about the same amount of time and effort for the waiter, even if you only get an appetizer and a glass of water.
Most of the nice restaurant's around here include an 18% gratuity in the bill for large parties. You have to inform them that it's not acceptable for whatever your reasons are.

I dont feel any tip should be less no matter the cost except for poor service. Thats just me though.

Most of the nice restaurant's around here include an 18% gratuity in the bill for large parties. You have to inform them that it's not acceptable for whatever your reasons are.

I dont feel any tip should be less no matter the cost except for poor service. Thats just me though.
I almost always tip 15–20%. Where my tip falls in that range depends more on what number will either be an "even" tip ("even" meaning I prefer tips to fall in whole dollars or, at the finest, 50 cent intervals) or will make my bill fall in a whole dollar range, if I'm using a credit card to pay (which I usually do).

For your information everyone, EVERYTHING I said in the opening post is right from Reverend Wright's keynote address before the NAACP, even the explanation of the differences between black and white marching bands.

I agree with you Dhrama, Frannie and Googs -
It IS blatant racism, prejudiced, dramatically biased and a joke.
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Well done, Brooks. I admire that strategy. Post a quote from someone else and watch people attack the quote because they think its your's, when all the time it came from someone who they would otherwise defend. Excellent. :worship:

"RIGHT" from Reverend Wright's speech? I don't think so.

Wright didn’t say “black kids climb on the desks at school when they are supposed to be learning.” What he said was, “When [schools] were desegregated in Philadelphia, several of the white teachers in my school freaked out. Why? Because black kids wouldn't stay in their place.”

Come on, Frannie.

Didn't you hear?

According to Brooks, the sentences he posted were "nearly" quotes.

I guess that's like a woman being "almost" pregnant.

Come on, Frannie.

Didn't you hear?

According to Brooks, the sentences he posted were "nearly" quotes.

I guess that's like a woman being "almost" pregnant.

and that's like you "almost" belonging in an insane asylum

but let's get away from the facts and to my opinions.

Dark, try telling the whole "tip well even if you get apps and a water" to the "20 high school kids who come in at 10:55pm after the basketball game and order 20 waters and 3 appetizers" crowd... and make you stay after your shift just because they are ignorant idiots who play on the butt dart team or something.

Ok, first about the tipping. I worked in foodservice for a while, I know how it is. On top of that, I am a nice guy, and if I get good service and good food, you can get 25% out of me. I went out to eat with a female friend of mine last Friday night at Chilis on Osan AFB. We both got steak and other sides, and fish, and desert. The bill was 50 something dollars. I left $15 for a tip. That's like 30%. The food was amazing, and the server was very nice. I thought she deserved it, especially since they were busy as hell on a Friday night. Do I always tip that big? No. You will however, usually get about 20%out of me if you don't totally blow it somehow. I have never stiffed someone either, never. You would have to do something really really bad for me to do that.

Now, about the whole race thing. I'm just going to come out and say this, so think what you will. There is a difference between a "nigger" and a black person. Those that deal drugs, shoot eachother, dont do anything to better themselves, live off welfare, perpetuate hate and ignorace, call eachother niggers, ect ect ect, they are what they call themselves. Just like ignorant rednecks. Theose black people who actually work for a living and are succesful and contribute to society, they take care of their business and their familys, they are people, just like any other race that does the same. Chris Rock said that, not me... and I agree with him.

You can subdivide any race of people up into sections. I'm just tired of everyone thinking that they are owed something because of shit that happened 10 generations before they were even alive. That goes for every race.

I'm just curious what the Wright defenders have to say.

That he isn't running for anything. :rolleyes:

Dark, try telling the whole "tip well even if you get apps and a water" to the "20 high school kids who come in at 10:55pm after the basketball game and order 20 waters and 3 appetizers" crowd... and make you stay after your shift just because they are ignorant idiots who play on the butt dart team or something.
Oh I know. I don't expect good tips from high school kids, most old people, or really redneck-y looking people. The town I live in is full of rednecks, but luckily they're rich rednecks - average family income here is almost $100,000.

DF-a question ?

Could ya describle a red necky looking dude for me please :D

the Irish own Boston.

Naw, the Brahmins own Boston--the Cabots, the Lodges, the Brainerds..the Old Guard.

Naw, the Brahmins own Boston--the Cabots, the Lodges, the Brainerds..the Old Guard.

So the micks only think they own it-got ya.

These Brainerds,Cabots and such, are these the old banking families ?

DF-a question ?

Could ya describle a red necky looking dude for me please :D
:lolhit: Well if he drives up in a Ford F-350 with his fat wife and chubby kids, and they're all wearing at least one item of clothing with a Confederate flag, American flag, pick-up truck, or Loony Tunes character on it.... They're rednecks. Other indicators are mullets, the wife having huge frizzy 80s/90s hair with those horrific bangs, etc. Around here you can also tell by the accent - not everyone has a southern-ish accent in MD, but the rednecks mainly do. Down in the actual South even people who aren't rednecks have the accent, so it's not a reliable indicator...

(P.S. - Not talkin' bad about rednecks here... Half my family lives on a dirt road in rural Florida. My grandpa is never seen without a baseball cap on his head, a flannel shirt, and a toothpick in his mouth, and his wife buys her wine in a jug from Costco and drinks it with ice. So yeah I definitely know what a redneck is! :p)

:lolhit: Well if he drives up in a Ford F-350 with his fat wife and chubby kids, and they're all wearing at least one item of clothing with a Confederate flag, American flag, pick-up truck, or Loony Tunes character on it.... They're rednecks. Other indicators are mullets, the wife having huge frizzy 80s/90s hair with those horrific bangs, etc. Around here you can also tell by the accent - not everyone has a southern-ish accent in MD, but the rednecks mainly do. Down in the actual South even people who aren't rednecks have the accent, so it's not a reliable indicator...

(P.S. - Not talkin' bad about rednecks here... Half my family lives on a dirt road in rural Florida. My grandpa is never seen without a baseball cap on his head, a flannel shirt, and a toothpick in his mouth, and his wife buys her wine in a jug from Costco and drinks it with ice. So yeah I definitely know what a redneck is! :p)
Shit-I thought all you Yanks got on like that. Gotta write this down.

:lolhit: Not quite everyone. Where I'm from it's a common enough sight. Even very close to DC there are plenty of rednecks. But I'd say they're less common in places like NYC or California. (Keep in mind that rednecks are just one strain of the myriad versions of white trash we have here... I'm sure you've got some of your own in Ireland too.)

:lolhit: Not quite everyone. Where I'm from it's a common enough sight. Even very close to DC there are plenty of rednecks. But I'd say they're less common in places like NYC or California. (Keep in mind that rednecks are just one strain of the myriad versions of white trash we have here... I'm sure you've got some of your own in Ireland too.)
What are ya saying girl :)

I dont know what we have that would fit in a stereotype like a redneck.

You had a good look here,what you think ?

Plenty of weirdos here thats for sure.

So the micks only think they own it-got ya.

These Brainerds,Cabots and such, are these the old banking families ?

Yes, bankers, doctors, professors, descendants of the first settlers.

Yes, bankers, doctors, professors, descendants of the first settlers.

These people, the original WASPs, are the real power in the United States.

Perhaps you've got some black friends that are just really cheap. That ever occur to you?


BOOM!
i hate it when people want to refer to all people by the actions of a few.
that's why i like to throw it back at em.
almost everyone these daze are screwed up. and i blame tv, and cheap easy food.
television, drug of a nation.....................heros of hiphopcracy.

white trash, nigger, spick, mick, etc.. words used by the economically and socially threatened.

superiority attitudes come in many forms. whether people are aware of it or not. and the sad part, most aren't aware of this at all.

Who's talking about black people?!? The individuals I mentioned who don't know how to tip are my mother and my cousin (both white; they were here visiting this past week, and every time a check came, neither one could figure what to do). Edited to add that mom is 83 and cousin is 67.

Sheesh.
Sorry, I assumed (in the context of the conversation, obviously) that you were talking about black people (perhaps that's where I went wrong). My sincerest apologies. :)