A major earthquake just hit Iran, killing 10,00 people.

I can just see, and hear, the conversation in the White House right now.

ROVE: (rubbing his hands together) Georgie, this is just great news. We don't really give a hoot about them 10,000 dumb Iranians dieing, but just think of the great things this can do for us.

GWB: What great things Mister President, what can it do for us?

ROVE: Well Georgie, what we can do now is go and make a secret deal with them. We will give them some humanitarian aid, you know, food and shit that we dont want, some old building supplies, etc. and then we will thell them that if they want this crap, they have to give up their nuclear program.

Then, our dumb voters will think you pulled off another great thing and you will get a lot more votes in the next election.

GWB: Gee Mister President, that's real cool. Then I get to play in the white House and on that big airplane in the sky for another four years. Why didn't I think of that?

ROVE: Georgie, you know why you didn't think of it, you're just too stupid and ignorant and your brain is made out of sawdust. That's why I promised your daddy that I would take good care of you.

GWB: Gee, thanks Mister President, I hope when I grow up I can be just like you.


.................................................. ...........

And, if anyone here doesnt believe that this administration will use this disaster to their political benefit, think again.

Evil bastards that they are.

You woulnd't know evil if it jumped up & smacked you in the face.

Originally posted by es347fan
You woulnd't know evil if it jumped up & smacked you in the face.

It doesn't have to jump up and smack me in the face, it's sitting right there in front of us all, in Washington, Camp David and Crawford, Texas.

Not to worry though, evil usually gets destroyed, in the end..and the end for this evil administration is coming much sooner than they expect.

Soon a major blockbuster will come out in the public that will take this ignorant moron down.....

So - in your opinion, should the U.S. reach out to Iran & offer humanitarian aid following this devistating natural disaster, it's out of wanting secondary gain?

You're way off.

Originally posted by es347fan
So - in your opinion, should the U.S. reach out to Iran & offer humanitarian aid following this devistating natural disaster, it's out of wanting secondary gain?

You're way off.

Where did I say that? Don't put friggin words into my mouth.

Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level then beat you with experience ES.

Ahh. Slandering HaVoK, ever the voice of reason.

We offer Iran aid. Thats the proper move.I just hope this time it is in a form that actually helps the intended receivers. So often we see that our aid never make it past the upper management of a country. Sold or retained for personal profits.
As for political ammunition-possibly which is o.k if we see it as such.
Our way is to bitch and moan and then help those in need.
I don't know the statistics but America has probably helped more in the natural calamities of other countries than any other nation.
Don't remember hearing about foreigners fighting our forest fires,etc. But thats life in the free world.

There is nothing wrong with offering other countries aid, when needed, including Iran.

But, just knowing how this administration has operated, how secretly , and how dirty...I would not put it past them to offer them aid, but this time with strings attached that will make VBush look good in they eyes of the american public. I can hardly wait, becasue I know it will be exposed and will end up as part of their downfall.

Mem - The US has term limits, so the max Bush can get is 8 years. It's not like he's building some secret empire.

Any politician - no matter what the affiliation takes the most benefit out of every event & opportunity. Doing so doesn't make the action fake.

The US has offered aid to Iran, this is a terrible tragedy. Why has the US offered aid? because the American people would expect no less, it's human nature to want to help & the US is one of the main sources of help in this world.

My hope is that this event will build bridges.

No matter who was in power you'd have to latch onto some hidden agenda. Bush is the best leader this country has had since Reagan & it drives you liberals insane & into into the world of fantasy because you've got nothing real to say.

Get ready for 4 more years :)

Originally posted by DrewM
No matter who was in power you'd have to latch onto some hidden agenda. Bush is the best leader this country has had since Reagan & it drives you liberals insane & into into the world of fantasy because you've got nothing real to say.

Get ready for 4 more years :)
Leadership. Wasn't Hitler a good leader? I'm not comparing Bush to Hitler here, that's like comparing oranges to...grapefruit...but it does point out that leadership alone does not a president make.

Originally posted by BorgHunter
Leadership. Wasn't Hitler a good leader? I'm not comparing Bush to Hitler here, that's like comparing oranges to...grapefruit...but it does point out that leadership alone does not a president make. Yeah, we all know what you democrat types like in a leader. A perjuring, dope smoking, cowardly, piece of shit adulterer.

Oranges and grapefruit belong in the citrus family of fruits, so basically you ARE comparing Bush to Hilter, since you imply that Bush and Hitler belong in the same intolerant family of bloodthirsty, heartless dictators.

Hey ... klinton never smoked - remember? Too goddamn cowardly to inhale!

Originally posted by BorgHunter
Leadership. Wasn't Hitler a good leader? I'm not comparing Bush to Hitler here, that's like comparing oranges to...grapefruit...but it does point out that leadership alone does not a president make.

I wouldn't consider Hitler a good leader, he was a ruthless dictator who ruled by fear & torture. Plus he was a total failure.

But, beside the point - is that all you can come up with?

All I hear here about Bush is he is secretive, well good - he should be, and oh of course the Iraq thing and the thing about him being evil - which is nice and all - but means nothing.

Yet, compare him to Clinton - Clinton may have been a smart guy but he was getting blow jobs in the oval office while talking on the phone to world leaders and in addition he is a complete and total criminal, pardoned his buddies, stole a bunch of stuff from the whitehouse that he had to take back - yet all that is ok....it blows my mind. Yep - I guess leadership doesn't count, a good president is an unethical liar that holds the office in contempt.

Originally posted by DrewM
I wouldn't consider Hitler a good leader, he was a ruthless dictator who ruled by fear & torture. Plus he was a total failure.

But, beside the point - is that all you can come up with?

All I hear here about Bush is he is secretive, well good - he should be, and oh of course the Iraq thing and the thing about him being evil - which is nice and all - but means nothing.

Yet, compare him to Clinton - Clinton may have been a smart guy but he was getting blow jobs in the oval office while talking on the phone to world leaders and in addition he is a complete and total criminal, pardoned his buddies, stole a bunch of stuff from the whitehouse that he had to take back - yet all that is ok....it blows my mind. Yep - I guess leadership doesn't count, a good president is an unethical liar that holds the office in contempt.
All right, let's review what Bush as done while in office (taken from an oft-forwarded email...most, if not all, of these claims are true to the best of my knowledge):

GEORGE W. BUSH RESUME
The White House, USA

ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS PRESIDENT:
I attacked and took over two countries.
I spent the U.S. surplus and bankrupted the Treasury.
I shattered the record for biggest annual deficit in history.
I set an economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12-month period.
I set all-time record for biggest drop in the history of the stock market.
I am the first president in decades to execute a federal prisoner.
I am the first president in US history to enter office with a criminal record.
In my first year in office I set the all-time record for most days on vacation by any president in US history.
After taking the entire month of August off for vacation, I presided over the worst security failure in US history.
I set the record for most campaign fund raising trips by any president in US history.
In my first two years in office over 2 million Americans lost their job.
I cut unemployment benefits for more out-of-work Americans than any other president in US history.
I set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12-month period.
I appointed more convicted criminals to administration positions than any president in US history.
I set the record for the fewest press conferences of any president since the advent of TV.
I signed more laws and executive orders amending the Constitution than any other president in US history.
I presided over the biggest energy crises in US history and refused to intervene when corruption was revealed.
I presided over the highest gasoline prices in US history and refused to use the national reserves as past presidents have.
I cut health care benefits for war veterans.
I set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously take to the streets to protest me (15 million people), shattering the record for protest against any person in the history of mankind.
I dissolved more international treaties than any president in US history.
I've made my presidency the most secretive and unaccountable of any in US history.
Members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in US history. (The 'poorest' multimillionaire, Condoleeza Rice, has a Chevron oil tanker named after her).
I am the first president in US history to have all 50 states of the Union simultaneously go bankrupt.
I presided over the biggest corporate stock market fraud in any market in any country in the history of the world.
I am the first president in US history to order a US attack and military occupation of a sovereign nation, and I did so against the will of the United Nations and the world community.
I have created the largest government department bureaucracy in the history of the United States. (Not bad for the "smaller government" party, eh?)
I set the all-time record for biggest annual budget spending increases, more than any other president in US history.
I am the first president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the Human Rights Commission.
I am the first president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the Elections Monitoring Board.
I removed more checks and balances, and have the least amount of congressional oversight than any presidential administration in US history.
I rendered the entire United Nations irrelevant.
I withdrew from the World Court of Law.
I refused to allow inspectors access to US prisoners of war and by default no longer abide by the Geneva Conventions.
I am the first president in US history to refuse United Nations election inspectors access during the 2002 US elections.
I am the all-time US (and world) record holder for most corporate campaign donations.
The biggest lifetime contributor to my campaign, who is also one of my best friends, presided over one of the largest corporate bankruptcy frauds in world history (Kenneth Lay, former CEO of Enron Corporation).
I spent more money on polls and focus groups than any president in US history.
I am the first president to run and hide when the US came under attack (and then lied, saying the enemy had the code to Air Force 1)
I am the first US president to establish a secret shadow government.
I took the world's sympathy for the US after 911, and in less than a year made the US the most resented country in the world (possibly the biggest diplomatic failure in US and world history).
I am the first US president in history to have a majority of the people of Europe (71%) view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and stability.
I am the first US president in history to have the people of South Korea more threatened by the US than by their immediate neighbor, North Korea.
I changed US policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts.
I set the all-time record for number of administration appointees who violated US law by not selling their huge investments in corporations bidding for gov't contracts.
I have removed more freedoms and civil liberties for Americans than any other president in US history. In a little over two years I have created the most divided country in decades, possibly the most divided that the US has been since the civil war.
I entered office with the strongest economy in US history and in less than two years turned every single economic category heading straight down.

RECORDS AND REFERENCES:
I have at least one conviction for drunk driving in Maine (Texas driving record has been erased and is not available).
I was AWOL from the National Guard and deserted the military during a time of war.
I refuse to take a drug test or even answer any questions about drug use.
All records of my tenure as governor of Texas have been spirited away to my father's library, sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.
All records of any SEC investigations into my insider trading or bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.
All minutes of meetings of any public corporation for which I served on the board are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.
Any records or minutes from meetings I (or my VP) attended regarding public energy policy are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public review.

PERSONAL REFERENCES:
For personal references, please speak to my dad or uncle James Baker (They can be reached in their offices at the Carlyle Group where they are helping to divide up the spoils of the US-Iraq war and plan for the next one.)
Oranges and grapefruit belong in the citrus family of fruits, so basically you ARE comparing Bush to Hilter, since you imply that Bush and Hitler belong in the same intolerant family of bloodthirsty, heartless dictators.
I'm saying that they might be closer than any of us realize...they just have a different "skin". And, obviously, a different way of going about their business. Dubya hasn't brutally murdered anyone...to my knowledge...

Would be more impressive if it wasn't something you just copied from somewhere else, but without going thru the list - many are in fact positives, many are not directly attributable to the president and several are just plain dumb.

Come on Borg - for once actually give an opinion that you can claim as your own. If instead of your own reasoned points, that list is all you can produce to back up your hatred of Bush - then it's a bit juvenile.

I see that many of the points on that list deal with the economy and how Bush messed it all up. That information is clearly outdated due to an economic upturn which we have repeatedly discussed already, as well as signs of a recession during the Clinton years.

Originally posted by BorgHunter
I've made my presidency the most secretive and unaccountable of any in US history.

If Dems really find this to be a problem, then why the huge support for Dean?

"After taking the entire month of August off for vacation, I presided over the worst security failure in US history."

Yeah - 9-11 was because Bush took August on vacation. A presidents vacation is hardly much of a vacation - he still has to work every day.

"I signed more laws and executive orders amending the Constitution than any other president in US history."

What rubbish - what changes to the consitution?

The list such complete garbage, much of it is even out of date.

Now - post your views - Not liking Bush is totally fine, but at least have some points that aren't cut & paste from a teenage leftist club.

Originally posted by DrewM
"After taking the entire month of August off for vacation, I presided over the worst security failure in US history."

Yeah - 9-11 was because Bush took August on vacation. A presidents vacation is hardly much of a vacation - he still has to work every day.

"I signed more laws and executive orders amending the Constitution than any other president in US history."

What rubbish - what changes to the consitution?

The list such complete garbage, much of it is even out of date.

Now - post your views - Not liking Bush is totally fine, but at least have some points that aren't cut & paste from a teenage leftist club.
LOL...sometimes, you just are too funny, Drew. First of all, I got that directly from snopes.com, who say basically that some claims are true, a few are not, and the rest are too subjective. Some of those, yes, are complete garbage. I did look through them a bit, even adding a comment on one (I have created the largest government department bureaucracy in the history of the United States. (Not bad for the "smaller government" party, eh?)), but not with a fine-toothed comb.

I'm sure, with my nearly-3000 posts here, that I have gone over why I dislike Bush numerous times, but here we go again:

WHY BORG HATES BUSH for Dummies, First Edition. "Your complete guide to why BorgHunter doesn't like Bush, written so that even Bush himself can understand it!"

-PATRIOT Act, the biggest piece of civil-liberty-restricting crap that has ever graced Captiol Hill (We can blame Congress for passing this too)
-Gulf War II - He lied to the public, first saying how Saddam was a threat to the US, then backpedaling and saying that it was instead because of WMDs, of which we have found none.
-The guy's a moron. I like my presidents to at least have an above-average IQ. (I know, I know, no facts to back me up, but oh well)
-He didn't really even win the election anyway.
-COMPLETE AND UTTER sellout to big business. Look at the tax cuts and deregulation of big business. Come on, that isn't good at all.
-Worst environmental president in recent history. Bush repealed the Kyoto Protocol, and supports relying on oil continously.
-The economy fell drastically under Bush (though it can partially be attributed to 9/11). How can he justify increasing the national debt after Clinton worked so hard to decrease it?
-The whole "kill-the-terrorist" phase he's gone through...not that I'm saying that getting rid of terrorists is a bad thing, but locking innocent people up without evidence and without access to a lawyer, without even being charged with anything is completely unethical.

-PATRIOT Act, the biggest piece of civil-liberty-restricting crap that has ever graced Captiol Hill (We can blame Congress for passing this too)

Not a big fan of this myself.

-Gulf War II - He lied to the public, first saying how Saddam was a threat to the US, then backpedaling and saying that it was instead because of WMDs, of which we have found none

1) He said that we should take care of Saddam before he's a threat - not that Saddam was a threat at the time.
2) Even if we don't find WMDs, that doesn't mean he was lying. Intelligence is by its very nature risky at best.

-The guy's a moron. I like my presidents to at least have an above-average IQ. (I know, I know, no facts to back me up, but oh well)

Exactly. If he's guilty of anything it's of not being a very talented public speaker. Which I can relate to personally.

-He didn't really even win the election anyway.

Oh brother.

-COMPLETE AND UTTER sellout to big business. Look at the tax cuts and deregulation of big business. Come on, that isn't good at all.

Big business creates jobs that leads to more tax revenue for the government. Liberal policies cause the government to create jobs that cost the taxpayers overall.

-Worst environmental president in recent history. Bush repealed the Kyoto Protocol, and supports relying on oil continously.

It's called being realistic. While it's fun to sit around and legislate scientific progress, like California does, the reality is that we have an oil-based economy. To pretend that solar energy, electric cars, and hydrogen fuel that doesn't cost more energy to create than you get out of it are viable options is silly.

-The economy fell drastically under Bush (though it can partially be attributed to 9/11). How can he justify increasing the national debt after Clinton worked so hard to decrease it?

Now that the economy is on the upswing, is that also attributed to Bush?

-The whole "kill-the-terrorist" phase he's gone through...not that I'm saying that getting rid of terrorists is a bad thing, but locking innocent people up without evidence and without access to a lawyer, without even being charged with anything is completely unethical.

Unethical? No. But it is indeed troubling.

Although Bush is not a very good public speaker and may give the impression that he's not very bright, at least he got better grades at Yale than did his classmate, Howard Dean.

Folks you insist on repeating the phrase that the economy is on an upswing. If you truely do your homework you will find out that the last 6 months of 2003 was not an economic upswing.
Stop quoting the news and listen more to people like Neal Sherman of the Advantage group "I don't see any huge economic recovery".
Sales of bulk gold which people hoard when they believe the dollar will crash is up 70% over this time a year ago.
I personally am seeing more people looking at used cars now than new ones.
Bankruptsies are on the increase.

Watch the next 6 months of 2004.

if you dig deep enough you can find that someone has said something bad about everything, even someting good for everyone, like the capture of a living breathing murderous dictator.

Originally posted by Travh20
if you dig deep enough you can find that someone has said something bad about everything, even someting good for everyone, like the capture of a living breathing murderous dictator.

Like this:

Putting a damper on any happiness by Iraqis about Saddam Hussein’s capture, during ABC’s prime time special on Sunday night, Peter Jennings declared that “there’s not a good deal for Iraqis to be happy about at the moment. Life is still very chaotic, beset by violence in many cases, huge shortages. In some respects, Iraqis keep telling us life is not as stable for them as it was when Saddam Hussein was in power.”

Originally posted by LionelHutz
Like this:

Putting a damper on any happiness by Iraqis about Saddam Hussein’s capture, during ABC’s prime time special on Sunday night, Peter Jennings declared that “there’s not a good deal for Iraqis to be happy about at the moment. Life is still very chaotic, beset by violence in many cases, huge shortages. In some respects, Iraqis keep telling us life is not as stable for them as it was when Saddam Hussein was in power.”
That is true. Simply capturing Saddam doesn't do crap. We need to get a government in Iraq and get it working on rebuilding.

its funny to me that the liberals, who are so obssesed with symbolism, can not see anything good in the capture of Saddam. the capture of saddam is a great symbolic victory for America and the Iraqi people. The monster is in a cage, humbled and belittled, and about to be put to death by the very people he terrorized. And it is much more than that. He has all the answers to so many questions. To see nothing good about having this thug in one of our cages is pure stupidity. Once again it is the left using their talent to either see everything on such a grand scale as to over look the obvious, or to be agonizingly specific, so as to insinuate that since saddam himself wasnt firing those RPG's or detonating those IED's we are in no way safer. It boggles the mind.

Originally posted by Travh20
its funny to me that the liberals, who are so obssesed with symbolism, can not see anything good in the capture of Saddam. the capture of saddam is a great symbolic victory for America and the Iraqi people. The monster is in a cage, humbled and belittled, and about to be put to death by the very people he terrorized. And it is much more than that. He has all the answers to so many questions. To see nothing good about having this thug in one of our cages is pure stupidity. Once again it is the left using their talent to either see everything on such a grand scale as to over look the obvious, or to be agonizingly specific, so as to insinuate that since saddam himself wasnt firing those RPG's or detonating those IED's we are in no way safer. It boggles the mind.
Trav, yes catching Saddam is a good thing. I've said this at least five times on this forum and I'm tired of repeating myself. But you seem to think that since Saddam has been caught we can just relax and sip some margaritas in Iraq. That simply is not possible. We need to continue and finish the job before anything else.

Yes,catching Saddam is a good thing. I do not believe any intelligent person can say otherwise.
Helping Iraq rebuild is a good thing. A good enough act for the world that I believe other countries should help foot more of the bill and risk.
I hope that one day when the civil war occurs in Iraq that another Saddam does not come out as leader.
I also hope that the Iraq situation does not hold so much attention that the needs of inner America are over-shadowed.
If our President was not so,stand alone, and more of a diplomat and statesman we could approach other countries to assist more in our endevors. This would free more manpower and finances to help the home front.
This is not a Bush bash, he has done some good things. His is not a Presidency that can be measured in short term effects. I fear the long term effects.

Borg, I am not saying we can relax, I have been saying we need to stay, support our guys and do the job, whatever it takes. I am not the one saying "bring the boys back home".

And Fussell, are you related to tom daschle? you always seems scared and concerned.