Washington Post: The Polygamist Call Was Definitely Fake. So - What Should Happen To The Caller? (http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/washington_post_the_polygamist_call_was_definitely _fake_so_what_should_happ/)

An article in today’s Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/23/AR2008042303551.html?hpid=moreheadlines) says that the Post is now in posession of an affidavit verifying that the call was fake and the caller has been identified:
The affidavit made public Wednesday, which was provided to The Washington Post by the Associated Press, indicates links to Swinton even though she has no apparent connection to the Eldorado ranch.
One phone number used to call the San Angelo shelter is registered to a Courtney Swinton, with an address in Rozita Swinton’s apartment complex. The affidavit said authorities had “several reports regarding Rozita Swinton making false reports” with another number that had also been used to call the shelter.
Texas authorities are sticking to guns even in light of the verified information that will probably blow their probable cause right out of the water:
“The removal was based on our investigation. It was not based on the initial call,” spokesman Patrick Crimmins said.
Talk about sticking your finger in your ears and shouting, “What? I can’t hear you!” Look, the whole thing was initiated based on a false anyonymous complaint. The removal of any children shown to be abused may stand - but any criminal charges pursuant to that will most likely get dropped. A second year law student could thrash them in court over this.
But.....here’s another point: What should happen to someone who makes a false allegation of sexual abuse? In today’s world it just takes an accusation, the point of a finger, to absolutely ruin someone. A person can find themselves fighting for their lives, their careers, and even their families over a simple point of a finger and the word ‘molester’.
And this person has done this before:
The affidavit said that in previous years, Swinton had been linked to other tales of terrifying abuse. In one, a woman calling herself Dana Anderson phoned a hotline to say that she was 13 years old and had been locked in a basement and sexually abused by her father. In another, a girl calling herself Dana said she was abused by a youth pastor at a Colorado church.
What should happen here? Will this person get off with the excuse that she’s mentally disturbed? I personally think that the penalty for a false report of rape or molestation or anything along those lines should be roughly equivalent to what a true offender would get. It’s not a prank. It can destroy lives.
Take a look at what just happened to 437 kids and their families.

I agree that the phony caller should be punished, but that has nothing to do with the custody determination - as the CPS spokesmen said, the disposition of the kids is dependant on the investigation, not the call. The call was only to establish cause to investigate.

With that said, I'm not so sure if taking the kids away is the right thing to do. But I haven't heard all of the evidence I'm sure, so I hesitate to condemn anyone...

She should be punished, and I agree with Leper that it shouldn't affect the investigation.

hang the caller.
as long as no abuse is going on among the polygamists, LEAVE THEM THE FUCK ALONE!

hang the caller.
as long as no abuse is going on among the polygamists, LEAVE THEM THE FUCK ALONE!
but there appears there was...it was just a lucky shot.

hang the caller.
as long as no abuse is going on among the polygamists, LEAVE THEM THE FUCK ALONE!

For once I agree with you. The government should not be going into peoples houses with machine guns and taking their kids away. Why are all the people who are so up in arms about losing thier rights under the patriot act not taking to the streets over this? Oh ya, becuase it happened to religious people, they have no rights.

If there is abuse, find who did it and punish them, don't take away every kid from their family. It is bullshit.

but there appears there was...it was just a lucky shot.
I heard that there has been no evidence of abuse found yet. Where did you hear that there was?

I heard that there has been no evidence of abuse found yet. Where did you hear that there was?
news reports, but it's not as wide-spread as 1st thought. so far 5 of the mothers have been identified as minors...they're having trouble sorting out who's who and how old thanks to poor record keeping and the families being less than forthright.

Why are the people so concerned about the patriot act "eroding" our freedoms not upset that the government has downright anihilated these peoples freedom? They went right over the eroding stage and straight to crushing. Why damnit. Why is listening to some terrorists phone call a great sin but this seems just get a shrug of the shoulders? Is it because these people were wierdo Mormons so they got what they deservered?

hang the caller.
as long as no abuse is going on among the polygamists, LEAVE THEM THE FUCK ALONE!

You are so right that it bears repeating.

Their religion and life style are unpopular, so what.Leave them alone to live their lives as they choose to.

You are so right that it bears repeating.

Their religion and life style are unpopular, so what.Leave them alone to live their lives as they choose to.

I'm a little on the fence on this issue, so let me play a little devil's advocate here....


So what about the whole 14 year-old being impregnated by married (several times over) 40-50 year old guys? Is that no business of the state?

We've been imprisoning people for less on "To Catch a Predator" for years. I submit to you that it's the polygamists that want special treatment, simply because their "religion" endorses sexualizing young girls.

On the show they imprison the people they catch doing it, not thier kids. If they find evidence of abuse then follow the evidience and arrest those responsible and punish them. Don't punish little kids by seperating them from thier family for the rest of their lives. How would you feel if they took you away from your mom because your uncle molested a kid?

i don't believe it, me frogger and trav agree.

they mainly dragged these kids away and harrasses everyone because, drum roll please......................

they are polygamists.

eye roll, twirl finger in the air, BIG FUCKING DEAL!
if some guy can live under one roof with more than one woman should get a fucking medal. (no offence ladies)

On the show they imprison the people they catch doing it, not thier kids. If they find evidence of abuse then follow the evidience and arrest those responsible and punish them. Don't punish little kids by seperating them from thier family for the rest of their lives. How would you feel if they took you away from your mom because your uncle molested a kid?

If the mom knowingly exposes the kid to the uncle's molestation, then I would expect the kid to be taken away. That's what is going on here.

It's not the fact that they're polygamists that is getting them in trouble - it's the fact that they force their young children into statutory rape and polygamy that's getting them in trouble.

i don't believe it, me frogger and trav agree.

they mainly dragged these kids away and harrasses everyone because, drum roll please......................

they are polygamists.

eye roll, twirl finger in the air, BIG FUCKING DEAL!
if some guy can live under one roof with more than one woman should get a fucking medal. (no offence ladies)


I'm suprised you would want to live with more then 1 woman....sleep with more then 1 woman maybe but LIVE with all of them??? That's even too much estrogen for me to handle!!!

it depends on their culture leper. WE DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING BUT SUPPOSITION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
statutory rape to YOU is not to them. how can you say, force? you are in no way to judge that.
there are plenty of cultures world wide where polygamy and getting married at a young age is acceptable. in that part, the holy than thou CHRISTIAN americans need to mind their own fucking business.

I'm suprised you would want to live with more then 1 woman....sleep with more then 1 woman maybe but LIVE with all of them??? That's even too much estrogen for me to handle!!!


imagine all of them going into PMS at the same time.
especially if they do not have older culture isolation huts.
where's pa? HE'S IN THE BACK FIELD PLOWING FOR THE 40TH TIME!!!!!!!!!!!

imagine all of them going into PMS at the same time.
especially if they do not have older culture isolation huts.
where's pa? HE'S IN THE BACK FIELD PLOWING FOR THE 40TH TIME!!!!!!!!!!!


There were 4 people in my family growing up....3 women...1 guy being my father. He had his own little "pad" in the basement. :lolhit:

If the mom knowingly exposes the kid to the uncle's molestation, then I would expect the kid to be taken away. That's what is going on here.

It's not the fact that they're polygamists that is getting them in trouble - it's the fact that they force their young children into statutory rape and polygamy that's getting them in trouble.

So before you know any facts or have any idea of how many of the mothers were involved you are deciding it is OK to take 400+ kids away from thier familys forever? That doesn't sound like you Leper.

There were 4 people in my family growing up....3 women...1 guy being my father. He had his own little "pad" in the basement. :lolhit:
My mother lived a tortured existence with 3 males. :D

Its the whol slippery slope.

If we allow polygamy... where does it stop?

Why is it illegal for a 16 year old girl to get railed by a 20 year old guy?

If they both consent, you can't stop them.. right? If thou harm none, do as thou please.. right?

So hey where does it end? If a 10 year old wants to get drilled... even though any person who studies the brain knows she DOESN'T know herself... do we have the right to tell her she can't? This isn't a religious issue, this is picking and choosing based on religion and accepted secular trends.

You might think it is SOOO taboo that a 14 year old gets a tube steak, but then ridicule christians for talking about saving virginity until marriage... which one is it?

Its the whol slippery slope.

If we allow polygamy... where does it stop?



If we take away the religious freedom of a group of Mormons where does it stop? Maybe next time they will close Roman Catholic churches because a few priest molested children. Maybe they will close Orthodox Jewish synogogues because women are seperated from the men and are not counted a people for the purpose of forming a minyan. Maybe they will close down the mosques because Muslims consider women second class citizens.

It's the whole slipper slope. Where does it stop?

it wouldn't be the first time that religious persecution existed in this world.

The difference is... priests raping little boys isn't taught in Christian teaching, or accepted. But polygamy IS accepted in Mormon teaching.

it is or was accpeted by jewish doctrine before it changed due to jewish families, men, using it as a financial survival tool.

many cultures have polygamy. and many of thes ecultures have chuildren that mentally mature at a young age. todays men and women? pffffft............ they may act like 8 year olds until they are 30.
but that says nothing about that compound/group in question. the "kids" there may be mentally 25 when they are 12.
many older cultures see a female as ready for marriage/sex when they go through puberty rites. which is after they start menstruating.
of course, these same cultures remove males at the age of 5 or 6 to PREPARE to be men. which means, learning responsiblity, work, and warfare.
todays "men"? they might grow up when they are 40.

So before you know any facts or have any idea of how many of the mothers were involved you are deciding it is OK to take 400+ kids away from thier familys forever? That doesn't sound like you Leper.


No one knows what all of the facts are - we know what the allegations are. I'm basing my argument on the allegations. As for facts, that's why we have investigations and hearings. Apparently, the judge in this case heard enough facts to temporarily place the children in foster homes.

I will make this statement tho - if the parents are pushing their 13-16 year old girls into polygamous marriages, then those people shoudn't be allowed to parent, no matter what their religion or cultural beliefs are.

The thing that bothers me is that it sounds like they're breaking up every single family based on the actions of a few individuals - if you ask me, the state should have to conduct a separate investigation for each family before taking children away. I also am not sure why they are taking the male children away - they're not exposed to any sort of sexual exploitation right?

it depends on their culture leper. WE DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING BUT SUPPOSITION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
statutory rape to YOU is not to them. how can you say, force? you are in no way to judge that.
there are plenty of cultures world wide where polygamy and getting married at a young age is acceptable. in that part, the holy than thou CHRISTIAN americans need to mind their own fucking business.

You're right in that we don't know anything but what has been alleged..well, I think we can say for certain that they practice polygamy, which is illegal in Texas, but we don't know much else.

Now, personally, I don't have a problem with consenting individuals engaging in polygamous relationships...I do have a problem with parents pressuring their young, teenage children into a childbearing relationship with much older people. But saying "it's their culture" does not make them exempt from the law.

Now, personally, I don't have a problem with consenting individuals engaging in polygamous relationships...I do have a problem with parents pressuring their young, teenage children into a childbearing relationship with much older people. But saying "it's their culture" does not make them exempt from the law.

that is supposition in itself. and all geared by AMERICAN CHRISTIAN LAW.
like jesus said...........................
type in what you like.

So what if they practice polygamy. Some of the same people who are condemning polygamy defend homosexual marriage. Their reasoning is, the government does not belong in people's bedrooms. It seems they really mean, the government does not belong in people's bedrooms unless the people are doing something of which they disapprove.

All the children, other than infants being breast fed have been taken from their parents and placed in foster care. Since only about 1/2 of the people at the ranch practice polygamy that means even the children of traditional one man one woman marriages have been placed into foster care. There is no accusation that any boys were abused in any way but all the boys have also been placed in foster care.

It seems the crime these people are guilty of is belonging to the Fundamentalist Church of Latter Day Saints. Since when is belonging to a particular religion a crime in the United States?

it wouldn't be the first time that religious persecution existed in this world.

The difference is... priests raping little boys isn't taught in Christian teaching, or accepted. But polygamy IS accepted in Mormon teaching.Seriously, whats the big deal about marrying more than one woman? I dont get it. If some dude wants to subject himself to that kind of torture, more power to him.

We want to make it legal for a man to marry another man and adopt a child but if he want to marry two women his children should be taken from him.

Since when is belonging to a particular religion a crime in the United States? When belonging to a particular religion includes living a lifestyle that happens to be a crime in this country.





I am all for tolerance,and i do feel in history polygamists have been treated unfairly. But In this country it is illegal for me to have sex with a 14 year old girl,yet this is common practice in this religion,and we are to believe these woman are not being exploited?

young men are casted away in this religion because they are deemed 'competition' to the older males,and the young females are refused a way out,,,and we are to go along with this and believe that the young women in this sect are not being exploited?

I see alot of older females from this sect on TV. They look programmed and robotic. They are in their 30's and 40's and this type of life is all they have known. They are born and raised to believe at 13 they need to be married to a 50 year old man and have sex in some temple. How can we say this is what they want? How can we condone this behavior, when again if I was caught having sexual relations with a female that same age I would be sitting in a cell. Consent is not an issue at age 13-14 in that case. I would be judged and punished,so why do these people get that same crime over looked because of the word religion?

What is so horrid about polygamy?

Polygamy and polyandry have been practiced around the world since time immemorial. It is not the responsibility of the goverment to govern what goes on in people's bedrooms. If people want to take part in multiple marriages that decision should be up to them and no one else.

In Texas it is legal to get married at fifteen with parental permission. How many girls at the ranch were married younger than fifteen?

What is so horrid about polygamy? .

hey if you wantot be married to more than one person at a time.... thus suffering hell on earth.... thats your poison...

It is not the responsibility of the goverment to govern what goes on in people's bedrooms.. No but it is the governments responsibility to ensure 13 year old girls are not being exploited by men 4 times thier age while hiding behind right of religion.


If people want to take part in multiple marriages that decision should be up to them and no one else. I agree as long as one side is not being FORCED. There is the issue of consent. If in my neighborhood a 13 year old girl cannot consent to sex with an adult... why can she on some ranch compound?

In Texas it is legal to get married at fifteen with parental permission. How many girls at the ranch were married younger than fifteen?

i have no idea. Are thier marriages even considered legit? I am talking about the 15 year olds that are pregnant with one child already in tow.

there is no real crime in going through a marriage type cerimony at age 13-14. I am sure this religion has a good reason as to why these girls need to do this at such a young age,while the males at this age are casted away.... But why are these young woman made to have sex and be with child at age 13-14? Why if these young females decide they do not want to go through with it,they are punished? I see no other religion that forces marriage,or sex,or reproduction at any stage or age of life.

If laws were broken, then find who did it an prosecute them. No need to destroy an entire community over it.

If laws were broken, then find who did it an prosecute them. No need to destroy an entire community over it.
they're working on it.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong. My own beliefs say it's wrong, but I can't say it definitively because that's just my beliefs. All that I'm saying is that if you allow polygamy, you have to allow pretty much any mutual congregation.. like homosexuality, pedophiles, and beastiality...

Polygamy among consenting adults should not be the concern of the government. If children below the age of consent were married off that should be the concern of the government but that concern should extend only to those children not to all the children of the people at the ranch.

Homosexuality between or among consenting adults should also not be the concern of the government.

Pedophilia on the other hand should be a concern of the government since it involves young children. Under that concern, if there are any underage children being exploited at the ranch they and they alone should concern the government. The rest of the children are no concern of theirs.

Bestiality is wrong because the animal cannot consent. It is a form of cruelty toward animals.

Polygamy among consenting adults should not be the concern of the government. If children below the age of consent were married off that should be the concern of the government but that concern should extend only to those children not to all the children of the people at the ranch.

Homosexuality between or among consenting adults should also not be the concern of the government.

Pedophilia on the other hand should be a concern of the government since it involves young children. Under that concern, if there are any underage children being exploited at the ranch they and they alone should concern the government. The rest of the children are no concern of theirs.

Why is there an age limit? Why can the government set a moral standard on age but not on sex? I'm playing devil's advocate, obviously, but if it harms nobody, what's the foul?

Bestiality is wrong because the animal cannot consent. It is a form of cruelty toward animals.

Are you saying that animals in the wild never have sex, it's always rape?

Bestiality is wrong because the animal cannot consent. It is a form of cruelty toward animals.
Part of the jobs of some animal breeders involves sexual stimulation of males in order to obtain sperm. I suppose this should be illegal.

The foul is, children under a certain age are considered unable to make informed decisions.

I'm saying animals in the wild never have sex with humans.

Nappy, stop acting stupid. You know what bestiality is and it isn't artificial insemination of a cow or a mare. It is when a human has sex with an animal.

There is such a thing as playing devil's advocate and such a thing as simply being an idiot. You crossed over from the first to the second.

A bit pissy today, are we?

What is the big difference? They both involve sex. One group actually cares for the animals, the other only does it as a part of their job. I've read some of the accounts of bestialists, they say animals clearly indicate whether they're receptive to sexual advances or not. In many cases, doing it when the animal isn't in the mood is quite dangerous.

A bit dumb today aren't we.:hitout:

Brilliant. Now answer my point. Scroll up and look at it again, you may have missed my edit.

Nappy.. I'll be nice and pass over the obvious joke-opening involving your knowledge on making passes at animals and knowing whether it is dangerous... mua ha ha

But.. good point.. if the animal is "erect".. and you want to "catch".. or if the animal is "begging for it"... hey, no harm no foul right?

Nappy.. I'll be nice and pass over the obvious joke-opening involving your knowledge on making passes at animals and knowing whether it is dangerous... mua ha ha
I read accounts... Did you forget to read that part?

But.. good point.. if the animal is "erect".. and you want to "catch".. or if the animal is "begging for it"... hey, no harm no foul right?
If they didn't want the attention, they wouldn't be wearing all that fur! Harlots! Walking around like that, all on four legs, tails up in the air... grrr!

In Texas it is legal to get married at fifteen with parental permission. How many girls at the ranch were married younger than fifteen? I grew up in Texas and one of my sisters got married at 15. She is still happily married to the same guy 40 years later.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong. My own beliefs say it's wrong, but I can't say it definitively because that's just my beliefs. All that I'm saying is that if you allow polygamy, you have to allow pretty much any mutual congregation.. like homosexuality, pedophiles, and beastiality... No you don't.

Since only about 1/2 of the people at the ranch practice polygamy

And you know this because....?

well, the state of texas does have the group over a barrel. they practice stautory rape according to law.
but i do disagree with them getting rid of young boys so they can't compete with old fuckers.
in real polygamist societies this isn't done.

I grew up in Texas and one of my sisters got married at 15. She is still happily married to the same guy 40 years later.
That's because their marriage took place in the '60's, when marriages (not entirely unlike your word) still meant something in this country.

hey prea. step out of unreality you are stuck in. an enlightening book , forget the author, is "the way we never were."
in the old days a LOT of people got married because it is what you were expected to do.

hey prea. step out of unreality you are stuck in. an enlightening book , forget the author, is "the way we never were."
in the old days a LOT of people got married because it is what you were expected to do.

I still think their are a lot of people who get married because that's what's expected. Same with having kids. It's the thing to do.


But my parents married young and are still together. I can't imagine what my life would have been like if i would have married the guy I was with when I was 18. Oh yeah he's a doctor now...damn.

Oh yeah he's a doctor now...damn.
other than that, what's his life like?

other than that, what's his life like?


Not a clue...He's in West Virginia...ok so I'm glad I'm not there!

:thumbs:

Not a clue...He's in West Virginia...ok so I'm glad I'm not there!

:thumbs:

the only thing you have that he doesn't is earthquakes:lolhit:


and Xander:flowers:

No you don't.

Ouch.. I just got completely owned with that comeback. Totally proved me wrong. Thanks for giving me a new outlook on the subject;)

Not a clue...He's in West Virginia...ok so I'm glad I'm not there!

:thumbs:


funny, most doctors are running away from this state. the insurance for malpractice is too high.

funny, most doctors are running away from this state. the insurance for malpractice is too high.


Never said he was very smart.... I mean he did lose me.

:D

Wow... all of you seem to want the caller to fry, regardless of how many children she may possibly have saved. Yes, she broke the law, but if she stopped these children from being abused then I see no problem with letting it slide.

Wow... all of you seem to want the caller to fry, regardless of how many children she may possibly have saved. Yes, she broke the law, but if she stopped these children from being abused then I see no problem with letting it slide.
2 wrongs don't make a right, and no one is above the law.

2 wrongs don't make a right, and no one is above the law.
Exactly.

And by the way, all the news stories I've seen about it indicate that no clear evidence of abuse has yet been found.

How many girls 14-17 at the compound were found out to have had babies or they are pregnant now. I believe they said half of them on the news today.

Exactly.

And by the way, all the news stories I've seen about it indicate that no clear evidence of abuse has yet been found.
no smoking gun yet, but 31 out of 53 (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,352966,00.html) teen girls being pregnant or having had childern is something they have to look into.

Yes especially when the child's mother let's those perverts do this to their children. The mother's should be held accountable too.

How many mothers of pregnant teenagers in the general public do we "hold accountable" legally?

How many mothers of pregnant teenagers in the general public do we "hold accountable" legally? A teenager sneaking off and having sex with her boyfriend is not the same as a mother allowing an adult male to impregnate her daughter!

A teenager sneaking off and having sex with her boyfriend is not the same as a mother allowing an adult male to impregnate her daughter!
Unless any of the young girls say that they were forced, I don't see the difference. You could make the brainwashing argument here, but I have to say that's very hard to prove.

I wouldn't know whether to blowtorch those guys or give 'em a medal.

How many mothers of pregnant teenagers in the general public do we "hold accountable" legally?
when it a barfly that trys to sell her daughter to the guy on the barstool next to her it still makes the news.

That's like some freaky-ass Bonanza episode. Why do those women all have Conan O'Brien's hair?

The Texas courts have decided that the Texas authorities exceeded their authority when they took the kids away from their parents. Hopefully sanity will prevail and the children will be returned to their parents in the very near future.

From what I've heard of the decision (I haven't read it myself) it seems quite reasonable. I like the idea that the government can't take your children from you without proving that something actually happened to them (as opposed to sort of assuming it must have).

It wasn't even a case of assuming something had happened. It was an assumption that something might happen in the future. The authorities justified their taking the children from their parents and placing them in foster care on the premise that something might happen down the road. They also made the assumption that if it was possible that something happened in one family at the compound all the families at the compound were guilty. They treated the individual families as if they were all members of one gigantic family.

If they can take the chldren from members of the compound because they think something might happen in the future they can also take our children on the assumption something might happen in the future.