Here's how an a-hole and a gentleman butt heads.

I'd hope that five years ago, before he was so well known, Obama would have popped this guy.

http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=4575420

Here's how an a-hole and a gentleman butt heads.

I'd hope that five years ago, before he was so well known, Obama would have popped this guy.

http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=4575420

So,yer an Obama man,
Like Sedan.?

So,yer an Obama man,
Like Sedan.?
He seems to be a gentleman.
But I'd prefer him more as a neighbor than president.

He seems to be a gentleman.
But I'd prefer him more as a neighbor than president.

I totally agree.
There's little dispute that Obama is very polite,calm and
reserved.I've never seen him angered or even combative.
But what IF... ?
If it's a cool scam.Like Shelby Steele wrote as one key area
that blacks can make inroads is by Cooling their approach.
Don't act like yer on Jery Springer.That's THE easiest way to paint
onself into a corner as unapproachable and volatile.
Like Steele { a Black Author } warns ... " Don't make sudden moves ".
Like what Blacks traditionaly do when a Cop sounds his Siren.
What if Barack IS a - Manchurian Candidate - in full field of his
tempered facilities.What if he's playin Whites.
What if he's really very much like the Rev.Wright and Wright's
mentor ... Calypso Louis Farrakhan.
What If ?

I totally agree.
There's little dispute that Obama is very polite,calm and
reserved.I've never seen him angered or even combative.
But what IF... ?
If it's a cool scam.Like Shelby Steele wrote as one key area
that blacks can make inroads is by Cooling their approach.
Don't act like yer on Jery Springer.That's THE easiest way to paint
onself into a corner as unapproachable and volatile.
Like Steele { a Black Author } warns ... " Don't make sudden moves ".
Like what Blacks traditionaly do when a Cop sounds his Siren.
What if Barack IS a - Manchurian Candidate - in full field of his
tempered facilities.What if he's playin Whites.
What if he's really very much like the Rev.Wright and Wright's
mentor ... Calypso Louis Farrakhan.
What If ?

What an amazing load of racist garbage.

I totally agree.
There's little dispute that Obama is very polite,calm and
reserved.I've never seen him angered or even combative.
But what IF... ?
If it's a cool scam.Like Shelby Steele wrote as one key area
that blacks can make inroads is by Cooling their approach.
Don't act like yer on Jery Springer.That's THE easiest way to paint
onself into a corner as unapproachable and volatile.
Like Steele { a Black Author } warns ... " Don't make sudden moves ".
Like what Blacks traditionaly do when a Cop sounds his Siren.
What if Barack IS a - Manchurian Candidate - in full field of his
tempered facilities.What if he's playin Whites.
What if he's really very much like the Rev.Wright and Wright's
mentor ... Calypso Louis Farrakhan.
What If ?
what if Shrillary is a brain eating zombie?:eek:

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o245/mikezila_bucket/capt_e42dd752c6364d8eae2c5d6e13c0c8.jpg

both are as likely:rolleyes:

What an amazing load of racist garbage.

No,actually the Garbage is barack's Own words.He belongs to a Church
for 20 years and all he can come up with " I wasn't there when he
said it ".
You mean,you actually believe that.
What about The rev. Wright's close association with Farrakhan.
Wright went to Libya/Tripoli with Farrakhan.Even gave him an
award.Am i to believe that The Bama hasn't heard some of what
Farrakhan has openly spewed.The Bama also refused to denounce
Farrakhan during the Tim Russert sit down debates with Hillary.
Just like he refused to denounce Wright,after those tapes appeared on
YouTube.

You mean the Racial Garbage about what White Americans need
do to close the racial divide and heal america.

His Civil Rights little lecture is just a polite shakedown of Whitey
to make him feel responsible,like what happened during the Riots
In Harlem,Watts,Newark nd Detroit and a hundered other cities,
Blaming,as Nixon put it, " everybody but the Rioters themselves. "

No,actually the Garbage is barack's Own words.He belongs to a Church
for 20 years and all he can come up with " I wasn't there when he
said it ".
You mean,you actually believe that.
What about The rev. Wright's close association with Farrakhan.
Wright went to Libya/Tripoli with Farrakhan.Even gave him an
award.Am i to believe that The Bama hasn't heard some of what
Farrakhan has openly spewed.The Bama also refused to denounce
Farrakhan during the Tim Russert sit down debates with Hillary.
Just like he refused to denounce Wright,after those tapes appeared on
YouTube.

You mean the Racial Garbage about what White Americans need
do to close the racial divide and heal america.

His Civil Rights little lecture is just a polite shakedown of Whitey
to make him feel responsible,like what happened during the Riots
In Harlem,Watts,Newark nd Detroit and a hundered other cities,
Blaming,as Nixon put it, " everybody but the Rioters themselves. "

I'm sure all of our priests, gurus, bishops, swamis, popes, ayatollahs, etc., have said some shit that we would not agree with.

I'm sure all of our priests, gurus, bishops, swamis, popes, ayatollahs, etc., have said some shit that we would not agree with.

Hard indisputable facts.
Untold trillions spent since the 6o's on Welfare,food stamps,rent
supplements,Section 8 housing,Pell Grants,student loans,legal
services,Medicaid,Earned income Tax Credits etc. and for what.

Incarceration rate 7 times more than Whites.
Illegitimacy in the Black Community at 70%.
Drop-out rate in some cities in the Black Community at 50%.

As for Racism,explain :

Black-on-White rape 100 times more common than the reverse.
Black-on-White Robberies 139 times more common than reverse.
White criminals choose black victims 3% of the time.
Black criminals choose white victims 45% of the time.

40 years and 40 Trillion tax dollars ago,and some still blame Whitey.

I wonder if The Bama man had time to visit any Catholic schools in
Altoona or Johnstown,and ask the white kids,how many were visited
lately by Ivy League recruiters handing out scholarships for
" deserving " white kids.

what if Shrillary is a brain eating zombie?:eek:

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o245/mikezila_bucket/capt_e42dd752c6364d8eae2c5d6e13c0c8.jpg

both are as likely:rolleyes:


Holy shit Mike, is that the one I did?

Untold trillions spent since the 6o's on Welfare,food stamps,rent
supplements,Section 8 housing,Pell Grants,student loans,legal
services,Medicare,Earned income Tax Credits etc. and for what.
For what? The US is still one of the best places in the world to live. That's for what.

Incarceration rate 7 times more than Whites.
Illegitimacy in the Black Community at 70%.
Drop-out rate in some cities in the Black Community at 50%.
Selective enforcement coupled with poverty. Educating people who are struggling to make ends meet is difficult. Whites are often given lighter sentences than blacks for the same crimes.

Black-on-White rape 100 times more common than the reverse.
Black-on-White Robberies 139 times more common than reverse.
White criminals choose black victims 3% of the time.
Black criminals choose white victims 45% of the time.
Blacks consist of 12.4 percent of the US Population. Whites consist 74%. White people have more money than black people.

Since you're actually trying to make sense here, I'll go ahead and answer you. I don't expect it to last though...

I totally agree.
There's little dispute that Obama is very polite,calm and
reserved.I've never seen him angered or even combative.
But what IF... ?
If it's a cool scam.Like Shelby Steele wrote as one key area
that blacks can make inroads is by Cooling their approach.

Vilepagan: "What an amazing load of racist garbage.

Perhaps, but it rather closely resembles what Obama said in his autobiography(page 94 - 95):

"It was usually an effective tactic, another one of those tricks I had learned: People were satisfied so long as you were courteous and smiled and made no sudden moves. They were more than satisfied; they were relieved - such a pleasant surprise to find a well-mannered young black man who didn’t seem angry all the time."

He seems to be a gentleman.
But I'd prefer him more as a neighbor than president.

Wow.

Any human being who is a citizen of the U.S. who --after having just witnessed what has happened in this country and to this country since the year 2000, under the leadership of the present group of Republicans-- looks at Barack Obama and forms the opinion---

"No! I'd prefer this Obama fellow more as a neighbor than as president. I would instead much prefer to have four more years of the same sort of Republican leadership we've just had, instead of being led by a person like Barack Obama".

--- has (quite seriously) lost all touch with reality.

Perhaps, but it rather closely resembles what Obama said in his autobiography(page 94 - 95):

"It was usually an effective tactic, another one of those tricks I had learned: People were satisfied so long as you were courteous and smiled and made no sudden moves. They were more than satisfied; they were relieved - such a pleasant surprise to find a well-mannered young black man who didn’t seem angry all the time."

That wasn't the part I was referring to.

"Like what Blacks traditionaly do when a Cop sounds his Siren.
What if Barack IS a - Manchurian Candidate - in full field of his
tempered facilities.What if he's playin Whites.
What if he's really very much like the Rev.Wright and Wright's
mentor ... Calypso Louis Farrakhan.
What If ?"

Did Obama say something similar to this?

That wasn't the part I was referring to.

"Like what Blacks traditionaly do when a Cop sounds his Siren.
What if Barack IS a - Manchurian Candidate - in full field of his
tempered facilities.What if he's playin Whites.
What if he's really very much like the Rev.Wright and Wright's
mentor ... Calypso Louis Farrakhan.
What If ?"

Did Obama say something similar to this?

The Leftist Liberals Need Barack.They need a Political Savior.
Leftist' are universal.They Adore Power.The care not a whit if
they lie,repeatedly like Hillary in order for the ends to justify the
means.Like the bullcrap Madame Bela Pelosi and Harry Reid handed
down that they'll be Far more civil than Repubbies,if elected,actually
bringing Civility back to Congress.
How many Subpoena of Republicans did that newly elected Democrat
Congress serve.?

I think the vast majority of decent,tax paying,patriotic Americans fully
understand that it's no longer a question if Barack is TOO GOOD to be
true.It's a question of what the guy's Really hiding.
It turns out he's a little liar.
I'll post the list of his lies,later.

[QUOTE=Napsterbater]For what? The US is still one of the best places in the world to live. That's for what.


Selective enforcement coupled with poverty. Educating people who are struggling to make ends meet is difficult. Whites are often given lighter sentences than blacks for the same crimes.

***********************************

Now...Really.How much does it cost a caring parent to invest in
pencil & pad and help instruct their kids in the 3 r's.
The public schools in this country are run by the Liberal Teacher's
union.Better schools don't make for better students.
Better teachers do... however.
They've already established that the school bldg. is not the problem.
So,building new schools will do nothing.
President Clinton even did somethin worthwhile in his term.
He went out to prove if school uniforms had an effect on learning
and grades.It did.Dramatically.
They found old,run-down schools next to Catholic parishes and
bussed inner-city blacks to those schools with uniforms and
private school teachers.The results were amazing.
Liberals wanna preach ridiculous stuff,like they need more money
to build better schools.

The Great Educator,Booker T. Washington,who was routinely consulted
by Republican National leaders,working andd socializing with many
white Politicians and Notables argued :

That the surest way for blacks eventually to gain equal rights
was to demonstrate Patience,Industry,Thrift,and usefullness and said
that these were the key for improved conditions for African Americans.

Any human being who is a citizen of the U.S. who...forms the opinion---

"No! I'd prefer this Obama fellow more as a neighbor than as president. I would instead much prefer to have four more years of the same sort of Republican leadership we've just had, instead of being led by a person like Barack Obama".
--- has (quite seriously) lost all touch with reality.

Geeze Free. I'm checking my rather short quote and even reading between the lines I can't find where I said any of this.

I'll even reprint my entire post:
"He seems to be a gentleman.
But I'd prefer him more as a neighbor than president."

What am I not seeing?

1. That wasn't the part I was referring to.

2. Did Obama say something similar to this?
1. My bad guess.

2. Nope.

This is why having a debate with a Liberal Dimocrat is
all but worthless.They are what is known as :

Incalcitrant

98% of murdered blacks are killed by another black.

There are more white people on welfare than all minorities put together.

I am a liberal democrat. I don't NEED Obama or Hillary or any of the other individuals running for pres. I personally don't like any of the candidates very much. That said, I would vote for Donald Duck befor I voted for anyone that is affiliated with the lieing, warmongering, crony loving, America hating, born with a silver spoon piece of shit that is occupying the office right now. Don't know who I will vote for but it sure won't be any one associated with him or his party.

The GOP put him in office, allowed him to trash this country and the declaration of independance. They do not give a crap about the interest of the American public - only their wealthy friends and making more money off the backs of the middle class and poor.

98% of murdered blacks are killed by another black.

There are more white people on welfare than all minorities put together.

I am a liberal democrat. I don't NEED Obama or Hillary or any of the other individuals running for pres. I personally don't like any of the candidates very much. That said, I would vote for Donald Duck befor I voted for anyone that is affiliated with the lieing, warmongering, crony loving, America hating, born with a silver spoon piece of shit that is occupying the office right now. Don't know who I will vote for but it sure won't be any one associated with him or his party.

The GOP put him in office, allowed him to trash this country and the declaration of independance. They do not give a crap about the interest of the American public - only their wealthy friends and making more money off the backs of the middle class and poor.

Spoken like a True,Clueless,Worthless Liberal Dimocrat A$$Klown.
Gee Wiliker,I wonder how much Moola Bush and Cheney made
from Iraq's Oil.
Or have you Doofus,figger'd a way to displace that Myth with a
nude one.

Spoken like a True,Clueless,Worthless Liberal Dimocrat A$$Klown.
Gee Wiliker,I wonder how much Moola Bush and Cheney made
from Iraq's Oil.
Or have you Doofus,figger'd a way to displace that Myth with a
nude one.


Fools, do you really believe the stuff you post?

Selective enforcement coupled with poverty. Educating people who are struggling to make ends meet is difficult. Whites are often given lighter sentences than blacks for the same crimes.


Are those the things that make so many blacks idolize violence and crime in their music and culture, too?

Perhaps, but it rather closely resembles what Obama said in his autobiography(page 94 - 95):

"It was usually an effective tactic, another one of those tricks I had learned: People were satisfied so long as you were courteous and smiled and made no sudden moves. They were more than satisfied; they were relieved - such a pleasant surprise to find a well-mannered young black man who didn’t seem angry all the time."
I think Obama stumbled upon what I believe to be an aspect of human nature that most of the time goes relatively unsaid. People test each other like this all the time, particularly in the larger cities. One of the first things they'll do once they meet you is fuck with you. Just a little bit. Just to see how you'll react. See what you're made of. You can glean a lot of information from someone when they do this, and the risks are so often minimal that it can become an unconscious habit. Also it sends the message to someone that, "I am not to be screwed with, I will screw you right back if you try it." I think people can get so caught up in it, that entire cities can get reputations for being rude.

Smart people look at this as a challenge and an opportunity. You can win yourself quite a bit of respect if you understand the challenge-response part of human nature and respond accordingly. Different cultures have different ways in which they tend to do it, which might have accounted for Obama's mistaking the motives as racially based. And there might be some truth to it, but the behavior wouldn't have existed if it wasn't endemic to human nature.

Are those the things that make so many blacks idolize violence and crime in their music and culture, too?
We don't exactly run away from it either, mind you. In our own way, we are just as violent and crime-obsessed as black people are. We just portray it a tad bit differently on television.

Fools, do you really believe the stuff you post?

If I had a 1/2 cent for every time a Dimocrat yelled that
Bush/Cheney went into Iraq for oil,I'd be wealthy beyond
Midas.

Now...Really.How much does it cost a caring parent to invest in
pencil & pad and help instruct their kids in the 3 r's.
Not a lot, I'll give you that. But the biggest cost of poverty is the things it does to your mind. It can sap motivations very quickly out of a lot of people. Especially when there's children riding on the line. It can make a person psychotic. Mothers can do unconscionable things when forced against the wall with her child. When you're that poor, it takes a whole village to raise a kid, and if the village doesn't realize that, or doesn't care, it can drive a mother loopy.

We don't exactly run away from it either, mind you. In our own way, we are just as violent and crime-obsessed as black people are. We just portray it a tad bit differently on television.

Yeah right. Tell that to the black Atlanta judge who recently kicked white people out of his courtroom to lecture the overwhelming number of black defendants.

Let's try some hard figures, instead - According to the DOJ, from 1976-2005, 52% of homicides are committed by blacks, and 46% of homicides are committed by whites (including hispanics). Compare that with the fact that about 12% of the population is black.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm#orace

More of the system bringing down the black man?

Like I told you. Poverty.

As for Atlanta, the city is 59% Black, 33% White.

What do you want to argue, Social Darwinism?

Like I told you. Poverty.

Hispanics suffer from poverty too. Not to mention the sheer quantity of non-hispanic whites living in poverty outnumbers the sheer quantity of blacks living in poverty. Poverty doesn't explain such a large disparity.

As for Atlanta, the city is 59% Black, 33% White.

I suppose you think a black Atlanta judge isn't aware of that?

What do you want to argue, Social Darwinism?

Funny that would be your guess. No, I would argue the primary cause of black crime is a cultural tolerance and encouragement of violence and crime among African Americans.

I would argue cultural difference is the same reason Asians commit the least crime.

P.S. I would further argue that this belief that black criminal activity is a product of "selective enforcement" and systematic bias in the justice system is at most a very slim part of the problem and at least complete and utter fantasy.

I'm sure the black judge is indeed aware of it. I wasn't so sure you were, though.

No, I would argue the primary cause of black crime is a cultural tolerance and encouragement of violence and crime, particularly among African Americans.
I don't have an argument to explain the greater disparity. Nonetheless, I am not prepared to accept your argument. I think our judicial system is ineffectual at dealing with crime and properly deterring it. I think that accounts for much of the blame. As for the rest, I really don't know what causes it. But two books, Freakonomics and Guns, Germs and Steel have convinced me that the causes for societal problems like crime lie deep below the surface of what's visible. Sure, it's easy to look at the glorification of violence that permeates black culture and think that's what causes violence, but I think that's more of a symptom than a cause. I think we need to look at sociology of black communities with a greater resolution to glean out the true reasons for the problems.

If I had a 1/2 cent for every time a Dimocrat yelled that
Bush/Cheney went into Iraq for oil,I'd be wealthy beyond
Midas.


Please show me where I mentioned anything about oil?

I'm sure the black judge is indeed aware of it. I wasn't so sure you were, though.

If that's the case, then your statistics were besides the point - we weren't talking about me. However, just in case you're really in doubt, I was and am aware that Atlanta is a predominantly black city - that's not really a secret. That's part of why I like it as an example, because it's hard to claim the members of the system are racist against blacks when the members of the system are elected by a black populace.


I don't have an argument to explain the greater disparity. Nonetheless, I am not prepared to accept your argument.

Fair enough - my argument is ultimately based on common sense and observation but I can't prove it beyond bringing up statistics and saying "there is no other good explanation for this."

I think our judicial system is ineffectual at dealing with crime and properly deterring it. I think that accounts for much of the blame.


I agree and disagree. I agree that I don't think our judicial system is good at deterence - I blame the 8th Amendment (or the interpretation thereof) for that. However, I think our judicial system is good at dealing with crime in the sense that it gives people charged with a crime a more than fair shake at defending themselves and it incapacitates (e.g. imprisons) those people who are considered a threat to society. The jury system also provides a built-in check to prevent authorities from abusing their power.

As for the rest, I really don't know what causes it. But two books, Freakonomics and Guns, Germs and Steel have convinced me that the causes for societal problems like crime lie deep below the surface of what's visible. .

Haven't read the books, but causation is almost always an inconclusive topic.

Sure, it's easy to look at the glorification of violence that permeates black culture and think that's what causes violence, but I think that's more of a symptom than a cause.

Possibly, but that seems like a common sense cause to me. Are there more causes? Probably, but when the most visible (and audible) members of your culture set a bad example, the rest of your culture is going to follow to some degree.

I think we need to look at sociology of black communities with a greater resolution to glean out the true reasons for the problems.

I think it's also worthwhile to look at the sociology of other communities to see what they're doing right. Specifically, I like to look at American Asians because they are very good at keeping crime and violence out of their community - to me, it seems like education and respect for others play a very large role.

Any human being who is a citizen of the U.S. who forms the opinion---

"No! I'd prefer this Obama fellow more as a neighbor than as president. I would instead much prefer to have four more years of the same sort of Republican leadership we've just had, instead of being led by a person like Barack Obama".................

Geeze Free. I'm checking my rather short quote and even reading between the lines I can't find where I said any of this.

I'll even reprint my entire post:
"He seems to be a gentleman.
But I'd prefer him more as a neighbor than president."

What am I not seeing?

Okay.

If by indicating that you do not want Obama as president, you instead intend to vote for Hillary Clinton, then that would mean I was mistaken. If you intend, however --as I would assume to be the case-- to vote for four more years of Republican rule instead of voting for Obama, then the quote in question seems to me to exactly sum up your position.

In the case of Asians, I can say that they typically live in very tight, crowded conditions and have done so for centuries. As such, they have a lot of experience in dealing with the crime that comes with urban environments. Whereas American black slave descendants do not have that advantage. Their society has been fragmented and loose from the very beginning, and have only had 145 years or so for their to society evolve and traditions form. We created that mess.

All in all, I don't think common sense solutions are viable for sociological problems because common sense itself is often whimsical and hard to turn into a robust system. It's based upon individual values, and varies from region to region. Common ground can be found amongst all the chaos, but still people fight over perceptions and culture. I think a better course of action is to find solutions based on studies that are as scientific as possible, and to do more studies when a gap in our knowledge presents itself, instead of attributing common sense to fill it.

I also think the types of thinking outlined in the two books I mentioned earlier, skeptical, unbiased except towards scientific accuracy, honest rationale, needs to become the new "common sense." Those two books are at the forefront of what I think is a new revolution in the way we understand ourselves and our environments. I highly recommend you read them if you are interested in the topics of sociology, economics, psychology, evolution, or prehistory. Guns , Germs, and Steel examines prehistory, a million year span of human expansion and growth that most historians simply gloss over and isn't taken into account when doing sociological studies. Freakonomics is a veritable treasure trove of novel, never-before-thought-of ways at looking at statistical data and leads to some very surprising finds. Given the types of arguments you've advanced on AFN here lately Leper, I think it would be criminally negligent to not at least read that one. It's right up your alley.

In the case of Asians, I can say that they typically live in very tight, crowded conditions and have done so for centuries. As such, they have a lot of experience in dealing with the crime that comes with urban environments. Whereas American black slave descendants do not have that advantage. Their society has been fragmented and loose from the very beginning, and have only had 145 years or so for their to society evolve and traditions form.

I'm not sure if I accept the premise that urban living somehow promotes less crime, or enables crime-reducing culture. Even so, it's not like African Americans don't have a fair share of experience living in urban environments.

I also doubt the implication that enslaved Africans had no traditions or society until 145 years ago.

Either way, the assertions have no more function than to serve as a historical excuse for criminal behavior - like the murderer who says "But my parents abused me!"


We created that mess.

I don't know about you, but I refuse to take responsibility for the troubles with black America. My ancestors immigrated here LONG after slavery was over (abandoning their traditions and society in the process) - and I've certainly done nothing in my life to keep the black man down.

All in all, I don't think common sense solutions are viable for sociological problems because common sense itself is often whimsical and hard to turn into a robust system. It's based upon individual values, and varies from region to region. Common ground can be found amongst all the chaos, but still people fight over perceptions and culture. I think a better course of action is to find solutions based on studies that are as scientific as possible, and to do more studies when a gap in our knowledge presents itself, instead of attributing common sense to fill it.

Show me a study that's as "scientific as possible" and I'll consider that in conjunction with my common sense ideas. However, in my experience, sociologists really aren't able to exercise true science, mostly because it's impossible for them to reproduce the results they observe. In the meantime, common sense is the best anyone has to offer.

I also think the types of thinking outlined in the two books I mentioned earlier, skeptical, unbiased except towards scientific accuracy, honest rationale, needs to become the new "common sense." Those two books are at the forefront of what I think is a new revolution in the way we understand ourselves and our environments. I highly recommend you read them if you are interested in the topics of sociology, economics, psychology, evolution, or prehistory. Guns , Germs, and Steel examines prehistory, a million year span of human expansion and growth that most historians simply gloss over and isn't taken into account when doing sociological studies. Freakonomics is a veritable treasure trove of novel, never-before-thought-of ways at looking at statistical data and leads to some very surprising finds. Given the types of arguments you've advanced on AFN here lately Leper, I think it would be criminally negligent to not at least read that one. It's right up your alley.

I'll put them on my radar, but frankly, my desire to read has been largely depleted by my line of work. Still, I'll take a look at 'em at least.