http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/040108/geo_263715960.shtml

Third-graders Police questioned a group of 8- and 9-year-olds at an elementary school in Waycross. WeAPONS A broken steak knife, handcuffs, duct tape and a paperweight were seized.




By Teresa Stepzinski, The Times-Union


WAYCROSS, Ga. - Police questioned a group of third-graders suspected in a plot to kill their teacher at Center Elementary School on Monday, apparently because she had scolded one of them for standing on a chair.



The nine students - girls and boys, 8 and 9 years old - are too young to be charged with a crime under Georgia law, a prosecutor told the Times-Union. Authorities withheld the students' names because of their age and student privacy laws.
School officials rounded up the students Friday morning and alerted police after another pupil tipped off a teacher that a girl, the suspected mastermind, had brought a weapon to school, Police Chief Tony Tanner said.
Police seized a broken steak knife, handcuffs, duct tape, electrical and transparent tape, ribbons and a crystal paperweight from the students, who apparently intended to use them against the teacher, Tanner said.
"We estimate between six to nine students were involved. ... We're not sure at this point in the investigation how many of the students actually knew the intent was to hurt the teacher," Tanner said.
The plot was a serious threat, he said.
"They definitely took steps toward the goal of hurting the teacher, but whether they would have carried through on it had there not been intervention, we can't say for sure," Tanner said.


The parents of the students have cooperated with investigators who, by law, can't question the children without their parents' or guardians' consents, he said.

The target was Belle Carter, a veteran educator who teaches third-grade students with learning disabilities in a contained classroom setting, colleagues, friends and parents said. Teachers and parents at the school said Carter taught students with a range of learning disabilities, including attention deficit disorder, delayed development and hyperactivity.
A
ll of the children under suspicion are students in her class, they said.
Carter was at work Monday and didn't immediately respond to a Times-Union request for an interview, which was relayed to her by Theresa Martin, spokeswoman for the Ware County school system.
Carter, widely respected for her teaching and dedication to students, is scheduled to retire at the end of the school year.


The preliminary investigation showed a desire for revenge may have been the motive for the plot, Tanner said. Apparently the teacher had chastised the female student about standing on a chair, he said.
The plot apparently began taking shape last week, and the students may have begun bringing the items to school Thursday, he said.
It's unknown where the students got the idea, Tanner said.
Citing privacy laws, school administrators released no information about any prior disciplinary problems involving the students.

"From what I understand, they were considered pretty good kids," Martin said. "But we have to take this seriously, whether they were serious or not about carrying this through, and that's what we did."
Police hoped to complete their investigation Monday afternoon and will forward the results to prosecutors, Tanner said. But prosecutors' hands may be tied in the case because children in Georgia can't be charged with a crime unless they are at least 13, District Attorney Rick Currie said.




A juvenile court judge can declare those younger than 13 delinquent, but Georgia has no detention facilities for anyone as young as the third-graders, Currie said.
Martin said administrators would follow school system policy and state law in disciplining the students.


Four mothers of other third-grade students at Center Elementary called for the immediate expulsion of the suspected plotters.
Stacy Carter and Deana Hiott both cited school system policy stating that any student who brings "anything reasonably considered to be a weapon" is to be expelled for at least the remainder of the school year.


"We don't want our children around them," said Carter, who learned about the incident from a teacher at the school Friday night. "The one with the knife could have stabbed my child or someone else's child at lunch or out on the playground."
Belle Carter and Stacy Carter are not related.


The suspects shouldn't receive leniency because they have a learning disability, Hiott said.


"These kids, if they come back to school, what have they learned? That they can plan to kill their teacher and get away with it. That's not right," Hiott said.
The women said they took their children to school Monday only after their teacher promised to keep her classroom door locked and keep them safe.


The four also demanded that county schools Superintendent Joseph Barrow explain why parents weren't notified until Sunday night, when they received a brief automated message from the school's principal.
Barrow was attending a meeting Monday in Atlanta. Martin met individually with the mothers.


Police were alerted Friday morning "without any undue delay," Tanner said.
With 500 students and 80 staff members, Center Elementary School is recognized as a Distinguished School by the Georgia Department of Education because its students have met annual academic achievement standards for the past six consecutive years.


Violence is rare, and the plot is the first of its kind at any Ware County school, according to law enforcement officials and school system records.
A steady stream of parents dropped off their children for classes Monday morning.


"This is an isolated incident, an aberration. ... We have good kids," said Center Principal Angie Coleman who, like police officials and school system administrators, struggled Monday to make sense of the incident.
Coleman said counselors were present should the students and staff need them.
"This incident surprised me. It surprised all of us," Tanner said.






Here's me thinking something was wrong with the teacher if this many kids wanted to kill her.

This story was on the local news. Way to go, Kiddos! Teacher must be like Sister Mary Alexis or maybe Mrs. Walters (horrors from my past), but we never thought to kill.

Very sad :(:(

These children, and not knowing very much about them except by there action on this day. Has informed me of a lack of sensitivity surrounding these children of how they think the world or just there county behaves.

Instead of looking at just the children and there parents please begin to look the community and the lack of remorse from yourselves.

Instead of looking at just the children and there parents please begin to look the community and the lack of remorse from yourselves.


I'm not responsible for this incident, and neither is the "community", CR.

Ring leaders mugshot!

I'm not responsible for this incident, and neither is the "community", CR.

Exactly!


Ring leaders mugshot!

:lolhit:.
I was thinking the same thing,hahaha. I hope Michelle enjoys your sense of humor! :thumbs:

Family Outraged After Colorado 3rd Grader Suspended for Sniffing Shirt With Marker on It

The family of a Colorado third grader is furious after he was suspended for sniffing his shirt. School administrators accused 8-year-old Eathen Harris of trying to get high by huffing a stripe of magic marker on his shirt, MyFOXColorado reported.



Taking lessons from the overlydrahamatic ones (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,346358,00.html)



:hitout:

Am I the only one who's GLAD not to be in elementary school anymore?

Family Outraged After Colorado 3rd Grader Suspended for Sniffing Shirt With Marker on It

The family of a Colorado third grader is furious after he was suspended for sniffing his shirt. School administrators accused 8-year-old Eathen Harris of trying to get high by huffing a stripe of magic marker on his shirt, MyFOXColorado reported.



Taking lessons from the overlydrahamatic ones (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,346358,00.html)



:hitout:


Wow. I can't wait to send my son to school.

Am I the only one who's GLAD not to be in elementary school anymore?

Not only that, but glad I don't have kids there anymore.

Some of you are coming down on the teacher. Read the article more closely and you will see that these are special education pupils. Many pupils in special education classes, especially E.D. classes, have fairly severe emotional problems including impulsivity and lack of social skills. It is highly possible for pupils such as these to view any form of punishment by the teacher, no matter how mild or how justified as an act worthy of retaliation. With their lack of social parameters killing the teacher is as viable a response as drawing nasty pictures of her on the blackboard.

One of my sister's in Texas is a special education teacher but for jr. high kids. She was up for early retirement but now has decided to continue teaching. A lot of the kids come from bad homes so they have that to deal with that on top of learning disabilities! She has more patience then me that's for sure.

I'm not responsible for this incident, and neither is the "community", CR. _____________________________________________
No I to hint that you are responsible for every community in the US.
These kids didn't learn this on TV

I'm responsible for every community in the US?
How's that?

I ask again, what does the community--any community--anywhere--have to do with this incident?

Unless you are saying the "community" TAUGHT the kids to act this way?
Where do they live--at Alcatraz?

Perhaps we should put the blame on where it belongs--the kids.

I'm responsible for every community in the US?
How's that?

I ask again, what does the community--any community--anywhere--have to do with this incident?

Unless you are saying the "community" TAUGHT the kids to act this way?
Where do they live--at Alcatraz?

Perhaps we should put the blame on where it belongs--the kids. ________________________________________-
Yes the USA is responsible for thier own citizen's period. The actions taken by these kids resembled professionalism of murders. Where did they learn this and how did they learn this.

________________________________________-
Yes the USA is responsible for thier own citizen's period. The actions taken by these kids resembled professionalism of murders. Where did they learn this and how did they learn this.
does this mean you're not going to harbor the next Charles Ng (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Ng)?

If these kids are facing the death penalty and happen to be in Canada? NO

They are 9 years old remember and they only know what they have been taught..

If these kids are facing the death penalty and happen to be in Canada? NO

They are 9 years old remember and they only know what they have been taught..

No. These kids in particular are special needs kids, ones that lack the understanding, social skills, and think outside of the box.

No one is responsible for the community kids. We are each responsible for our own.

Family Outraged After Colorado 3rd Grader Suspended for Sniffing Shirt With Marker on It

The family of a Colorado third grader is furious after he was suspended for sniffing his shirt. School administrators accused 8-year-old Eathen Harris of trying to get high by huffing a stripe of magic marker on his shirt, MyFOXColorado reported.



Taking lessons from the overlydrahamatic ones (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,346358,00.html)



:hitout:


Unreal!

You'd think maybe if the school had an issue with those markers, they would stop requiring the kids to bring them in to use, and use crayons or something else.

:rolleyes:

I'm responsible for every community in the US?
How's that?

I ask again, what does the community--any community--anywhere--have to do with this incident?

Unless you are saying the "community" TAUGHT the kids to act this way?
Where do they live--at Alcatraz?

Perhaps we should put the blame on where it belongs--the kids.

Since when are 9-year-old "special ed"* kids made responsible for themselves? You have to suspect their guardians have failed to instill a good idea of right and wrong in them - and since it's several kids working together, you have to wonder if there's an entire community of bad parents out there.

*I put special ed in quotes because it's a trend in school to call kids that misbehave "special ed."

I respectfully disagree.

Many studies have shown that those of a normal intelligence can formulate the idea and concept of murder and what it means by age 6. I agree with your assessment about the trend in schools that label kids who misbehave as "special ed" students--but then again, they could very well be of a lower intelligence than normal.

In reading about other crimes of this nature--that is, a group of young children or teenagers plotting together to eliminate an unwanted person, there is invariably a ringleader who talks/co-erces the others into doing the dirty work--sometimes ALL of the dirty work.

Some of these kids show violent and/or psychopathic tendencies from a very young age.

However, sometimes no abnormal behavior is noticable beyond normal "acting up".

It would be remiss and unfair to blame the parents, guardians, teachers, or other authority figures in cases such as this.

I would wager that the one dominant kid got the idea from a tv show, movie, comic book, or some such. Outside of banning all such with those kinds of plot elements, I don't see how preventing the kids' getting such a murderous idea would be possible.

Canadian Reader--the United States does not execute those under a certain age--in most states, that age is 18.

Even more importantly, we don't execute those who did not murder anyone--as these kids did not.

I respectfully disagree.

Many studies have shown that those of a normal intelligence can formulate the idea and concept of murder and what it means by age 6. I agree with your assessment about the trend in schools that label kids who misbehave as "special ed" students--but then again, they could very well be of a lower intelligence than normal.

In reading about other crimes of this nature--that is, a group of young children or teenagers plotting together to eliminate an unwanted person, there is invariably a ringleader who talks/co-erces the others into doing the dirty work--sometimes ALL of the dirty work.

Some of these kids show violent and/or psychopathic tendencies from a very young age.

However, sometimes no abnormal behavior is noticable beyond normal "acting up".

It would be remiss and unfair to blame the parents, guardians, teachers, or other authority figures in cases such as this.

I would wager that the one dominant kid got the idea from a tv show, movie, comic book, or some such. Outside of banning all such with those kinds of plot elements, I don't see how preventing the kids' getting such a murderous idea would be possible.

Well, the traditional age of reason is seven (originating from the Catholic church?), but I would still submit the heaviest influence in a young child's decision-making is the parent. Even if we go with your dominant child theory, you still have to wonder about the children's upbringing in regards to not responding to peer pressure - particularly in a situation where a dominant child is engaging in some morally depraved activity.


Canadian Reader--the United States does not execute those under a certain age--in most states, that age is 18.

The Supreme Court "recently" ruled that states can't execute anyone under 18 years old.


Even more importantly, we don't execute those who did not murder anyone--as these kids did not.

Well, there's treason and repeat child rapists (the constitutionality of which is being tested as we speak), but that's besides the point.

Since when are 9-year-old "special ed"* kids made responsible for themselves? You have to suspect their guardians have failed to instill a good idea of right and wrong in them - and since it's several kids working together, you have to wonder if there's an entire community of bad parents out there.

*I put special ed in quotes because it's a trend in school to call kids that misbehave "special ed."

LEPER,

I Have a Master's Degree in Special Education from C.W. Post. It has to be remembered that there are different types conditions that cause a child to be classified a special education student. There are students with IQs in the 70 range and below who might be considered educable. In other words they can be taught minimal skills in reading, math and the like. Below 50, students are considered trainable. The emphasis with these students is on teaching life skills, brushing teeth, using utensiles, washing, getting dressed, etc. Emotionally Disturbed children may be Educable, Trainable or of normal intelligence. These students have problems with behavior and may be of normal or sub-normal IQ. In addition there are physically handicapped children and mult-handicapped children found in special education classes.

In none of the cases, especially among ED children should the parents be blamed for the children's behavior. These children have been deemed by the state to have mental or emotional problems profound enough to cause them to be placed in a special educational setting apart from other children. They are in small classes, usually consisting of twelve or fewer students with a teacher and one or two teacher's aides. Their programs are adaptive and geared to each individual child and written up in a formal Individual Education Program (IEP) formulated by the child's teacher, the parent and the school psychologist.

The children in the article seem to be ED students of normal or near normal intelligence. Their main disability is a lack of impulse control and an absence of the knowledge of proper behavior and barriers.

LEPER,

I Have a Master's Degree in Special Education from C.W. Post. It has to be remembered that there are different types conditions that cause a child to be classified a special education student. There are students with IQs in the 70 range and below who might be considered educable. In other words they can be taught minimal skills in reading, math and the like. Below 50, students are considered trainable. The emphasis with these students is on teaching life skills, brushing teeth, using utensiles, washing, getting dressed, etc. Emotionally Disturbed children may be Educable, Trainable or of normal intelligence. These students have problems with behavior and may be of normal or sub-normal IQ. In addition there are physically handicapped children and mult-handicapped children found in special education classes.

Fine. Out of curiosity, how much time have you spent actually teaching classes full of such students?

In none of the cases, especially among ED children should the parents be blamed for the children's behavior.

This is where we disagree. In such cases, particularly your cases of old-fashioned mental retardation (i.e. I.Q. < 70), I would say parents have reduced responsibility for their kid's behavior.

But the very fact that you're placing these in special education programs is an admission that you can teach these kids. And every kid's primary teachers are their guardians, particularly among young children.

I particularly object to the sentiment that otherwise normal kids who "lack impulse control" are not the parent's responsibility.

These children have been deemed by the state to have mental or emotional problems profound enough to cause them to be placed in a special educational setting apart from other children. They are in small classes, usually consisting of twelve or fewer students with a teacher and one or two teacher's aides. Their programs are adaptive and geared to each individual child and written up in a formal Individual Education Program (IEP) formulated by the child's teacher, the parent and the school psychologist.

Ok.

The children in the article seem to be ED students of normal or near normal intelligence. Their main disability is a lack of impulse control and an absence of the knowledge of proper behavior and barriers.

And you're saying parents have no responsibility for their children's lack of impulse control or absence of the knowledge of proper behavior and barriers?

If that's what you're saying, then I call BS.

Well, the traditional age of reason is seven (originating from the Catholic church?), but I would still submit the heaviest influence in a young child's decision-making is the parent. Even if we go with your dominant child theory, you still have to wonder about the children's upbringing in regards to not responding to peer pressure - particularly in a situation where a dominant child is engaging in some morally depraved activity.





I am in full agreement on this. First and foremost, it's the parent's responsibility--and none other--to teach right and wrong, and what constitutes morally acceptable behavior. It would appear that at least one set of parents was woefully remiss. Or just plain too lazy to be bothered.

There's also a strong possibilty that the kids saw this as some kind of joke or prank or as a way to look cool in front of their classmates. As a parent of 5, I can safely and truthfully say that many many times my own kids have made jokes about offing various teachers who fell into their disfavor. After a few laughs, tho, it was understood that an actual murder would not be the proper way to "solve" the "problem". I'd say--"We've all had bad teachers. Live with it, try to learn at least SOMETHING from them, and take heart in knowing you'll be out of their classroom in 9 months or less."

THAT seemed to work--no murders of teachers by members of my household that I know of. Not that they didn't THINK about it , I'm sure--and so did I back in the day. :)

And you're saying parents have no responsibility for their children's lack of impulse control or absence of the knowledge of proper behavior and barriers?

.

They have the legal responsibilty. Unfortunately, whether the lesson takes root is another story. There do indeed seem to be a few cases of youngsters who appear to have been "born bad". Granted, very few. I'm of a mind that criminals are made, not born.

Leper,

I spent eight plus years as first a teacher and then assistant to the director of one of the largest special education programs in New York State.


I am not saying the parents are entirely devoid of responsibility. I am saying you cannot judge parental influence on these students the same way you can judge it on non-special education children.

I am not saying the parents are entirely devoid of responsibility. I am saying you cannot judge parental influence on these students the same way you can judge it on non-special education children.

Fair enough - I agree.

Let me ask you a couple of questions tho - in the case of ED children with otherwise normal intelligence, do you think guardians have any influence over the fact that their children are ED? I ask because I would hypothesize that parents (or some other prominent figure in the child's life) are often the cause of a child's ED - but I would like to hear a more experienced opinion.

Also, I come from a family dominated with teachers (Mostly in Texas). From talking to them and from my own high school experience as well as from dealing with some juvenile criminals, it seems that schools are often just taking "bad" kids, labeling them with some "disorder" or mild mental illness, and placing them in a special ed class with a lot of other "bad" kids, as well as kids who genuinely need help. Have you witnessed or partaken in this phenomena as well, or are you aware of this going on in other parts of the country? I'd like to hear your opinion on this.

There do indeed seem to be a few cases of youngsters who appear to have been "born bad". Granted, very few. I'm of a mind that criminals are made, not born.

Completely agree with this.

Leper,

The majority of special education students used to be kept out of school and either kept at home or institutionalized. Now, they are enrolled in school by law under the doctrine that says each child must be taught in the least restrictive atmosphere possible. Twenty five years ago these kids would not have been in school.

While parents of emotionally disturbed children do have 'some' influence over their child's behavior it is much less than you seem to think. We are not talking about 'bad' kids but about 'emotionally disturbed' kids. Many of these children can be in a normal school setting only if medicated.

It would be nice if we could find someone to blame but it doesn't always work that way. Sometimes there is no one to blame and society must simply deal with a poor situation.

________________________________________-
Yes the USA is responsible for thier own citizen's period. The actions taken by these kids resembled professionalism of murders. Where did they learn this and how did they learn this.


this is the most idiotic thing I've read in awhile.
If my neighbors kid breaks someone elses window with a baseball,tell me how I am responsible for that?
Some dumbass kid decided it was funny to leave a bomb threat in the boys bathroom at the middle school last year,again,tell me how I am responsible for that kids actions?

I can answer them both......I'm not.
I'm only responsible for my actions and those of my children. If other parents can't get a handle on their kids,that is not my problem,so shut your cakehole.