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dharmabum
03-31-2008, 03:13 PM
This is a great compilation of John McCain's "blatant political opportunism" that the RNC got so upset about when Howard Dean pointed it out.

McCain’s record includes ’some inconsistencies’ (http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/14763.html)

I’m delighted the NYT noticed.

Senator John McCain likes to present himself as the candidate of the “Straight Talk Express” who does not pander to voters or change his positions with the political breeze. But the fine print of his record in the Senate indicates that he has been a lot less consistent on some of his signature issues than he has presented himself to be so far in his presidential campaign.

Mr. McCain, who derided his onetime Republican competitor Mitt Romney for his political mutability, has himself meandered over the years from position to position on some topics, particularly as he has tried to court the conservatives who have long distrusted him.

For its part, the McCain campaign told the Times that the senator “has evolved rather than switched positions in his 25-year career.” That’s a perfectly sensible spin — when a politician holds one position, and then, for apparently political reasons, decides to embrace the polar opposite position, it’s only natural for his or her aides to say the politician’s position has “evolved.”

But in McCain’s case, the spin is wholly unfulfilling. First, McCain sells himself as a pol who never sways with the wind, and whose willingness to be consistent in the face of pressure is proof of his character. Second, Republicans have spent the last four years or so making policy reversals the single most serious political crime in presidential politics. The dreaded “flip-flop” is, according to the GOP, the latest cardinal sin for someone seeking national office.

And if we’re playing by Republican rules, McCain’s “inconsistencies” should be a fairly serious problem.

With this in mind, for the first time in months, I thought now would be a good time to update the list of John McCain’s Biggest Flip-Flops. There have been some key additions since the last time I did this (in November).

* McCain pledged in February 2008 that he would not, under any circumstances, raise taxes. Specifically, McCain if he were a “‘read my lips’ candidate, no new taxes, no matter what?” referring to George H.W. Bush’s 1988 pledge. “No new taxes,” McCain responded. Two weeks later, McCain said, “I’m not making a ‘read my lips’ statement, in that I will not raise taxes.”

* McCain’s campaign unveiled a Social Security policy that the senator would implement if elected, which did not include a Bush-like privatization scheme. In March 2008, McCain denounced his own campaign’s policy.

* In February 2008, McCain abandoned his opposition to waterboarding.

* In November 2007, McCain reversed his previous position on a long-term presence for U.S. troops in Iraq, arguing that the “nature of the society in Iraq” and the “religious aspects” of the country make it inevitable that the United States “eventually withdraws.” Two months later, McCain reversed back, saying he’s prepared to leave U.S. troops in Iraq for 100 years.

* McCain used to champion the Law of the Sea convention, even volunteering to testify on the treaty’s behalf before a Senate committee. Now he opposes it.

* McCain was a co-sponsor of the DREAM Act, which would grant legal status to illegal immigrants’ kids who graduate from high school. Now he’s against it.

* On immigration policy in general, McCain announced in February 2008 that he would vote against his own legislation.

* In 2006, McCain sponsored legislation to require grassroots lobbying coalitions to reveal their financial donors. In 2007, after receiving “feedback” on the proposal, McCain told far-right activist groups that he opposes his own measure.

* McCain said before the war in Iraq, “We will win this conflict. We will win it easily.” Four years later, McCain said he knew all along that the war in Iraq war was “probably going to be long and hard and tough.”

* McCain said he was the “greatest critic” of Rumsfeld’s failed Iraq policy. In December 2003, McCain praised the same strategy as “a mission accomplished.” In March 2004, he said, “I’m confident we’re on the right course.” In December 2005, he said, “Overall, I think a year from now, we will have made a fair amount of progress if we stay the course.”

* McCain went from saying he would not support repeal of Roe v. Wade to saying the exact opposite.

* McCain went from saying gay marriage should be allowed, to saying gay marriage shouldn’t be allowed.

* McCain criticized TV preacher Jerry Falwell as “an agent of intolerance” in 2002, but then decided to cozy up to the man who said Americans “deserved” the 9/11 attacks.

* McCain used to oppose Bush’s tax cuts for the very wealthy, but he reversed course in February.

* On a related note, he said 2005 that he opposed the tax cuts because they were “too tilted to the wealthy.” By 2007, he denied ever having said this, and insisted he opposed the cuts because of increased government spending.

* In 2000, McCain accused Texas businessmen Sam and Charles Wyly of being corrupt, spending “dirty money” to help finance Bush’s presidential campaign. McCain not only filed a complaint against the Wylys for allegedly violating campaign finance law, he also lashed out at them publicly. In April, McCain reached out to the Wylys for support.

* McCain supported a major campaign-finance reform measure that bore his name. In June 2007, he abandoned his own legislation.

* McCain opposed a holiday to honor Martin Luther King, Jr., before he supported it.

* McCain was against presidential candidates campaigning at Bob Jones University before he was for it.

* McCain was anti-ethanol. Now he’s pro-ethanol.

* McCain was both for and against state promotion of the Confederate flag.

* McCain decided in 2000 that he didn’t want anything to do with former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, believing he “would taint the image of the ‘Straight Talk Express.’” Kissinger is now the Honorary Co-Chair for his presidential campaign in New York.

Now, it’s worth noting that there are worse qualities in a presidential candidate than changing one’s mind about a policy matter or two. McCain has been in Congress for decades; he’s bound to shift now and then on various controversies.

But therein lies the point — McCain was consistent on most of these issues, right up until he started running for president, at which point he conveniently abandoned practically every position he used to hold. The problem isn’t just the incessant flip-flops; it’s the shameless pandering and hollow convictions behind the incessant flip-flops.

mikezila
03-31-2008, 04:43 PM
* McCain was anti-ethanol. Now he’s pro-ethanol.


i was pro-ethanol, now i'm agaist it...we're even.

dharmabum
03-31-2008, 07:07 PM
i was pro-ethanol, now i'm agaist it...we're even.

Did you suddenly change your opinion because you were running for office?

Not so even after all...:slap:

Foolsworth
03-31-2008, 08:14 PM
I certainty am not gonna defend McCain.
As Tammy Bruce insists,this McCain is merely a Hillary in slacks.
" John McCain is effectively Hillary in drag ! ".
" He is Hillary Clinton in a suit ".
All things I've been sayin for a few years.

mikezila
03-31-2008, 08:18 PM
Did you suddenly change your opinion because you were running for office?

Not so even after all...:slap:
no, because circumstances have changed-it hasn't lived up to it's promise....get cellulose based ethanol rolling and i'll flop back:woohoo:

dharmabum
04-01-2008, 12:45 PM
This is one of my favorite McCain Flip-flops.

* On immigration policy in general, McCain announced in February 2008 that he would vote against his own legislation.

dharmabum
04-03-2008, 04:24 PM
I just noticed that this list left out the fact that John McCain is breaking the law right now in trying to get out of the public financing he agreed to and used to secure a loan. He is blowing past the spending limits and the only reason he isn't being charged with a crime right now is that the FEC does not have a quorum so they cannot do anything.

CarbonBasedLife
04-03-2008, 04:37 PM
While we're on McCain flip-flopping...There was a story on CNN a couple of weeks ago talking about how McCain considered becoming a democrat in 2001 because he was upset (and rightfully so) about the whole Karl Rove/black baby thing. Also, there were talks of a Kerry/McCain ticket back in '04 as well.

None of that is relevant IMO, which is why I didn't post the article...but I thought it was an interesting tidbit of info.

dharmabum
04-03-2008, 04:48 PM
While we're on McCain flip-flopping...There was a story on CNN a couple of weeks ago talking about how McCain considered becoming a democrat in 2001 because he was upset (and rightfully so) about the whole Karl Rove/black baby thing. Also, there were talks of a Kerry/McCain ticket back in '04 as well.

None of that is relevant IMO, which is why I didn't post the article...but I thought it was an interesting tidbit of info.

It is interesting how that doesn't get brought up more in the media, but I remember what you are talking about.

LionelHutz
04-03-2008, 10:11 PM
I recall there being a lot of rumors of him considering going democrat, but as I recall he always denied it. So I don't see how that's a flip flop, unless rumors count against you.

dharmabum
04-04-2008, 01:42 PM
McCain's people approached the Democrats about switching parties. (http://www.mydd.com/story/2007/4/3/11936/97033)

"I believe my party has gone astray... I think the Democratic party is a fine party and I have no problems with it, in their views and their philosophy." - John McCain 2004 (http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/mccain.asp)

LiquidFork
04-04-2008, 01:51 PM
Did you suddenly change your opinion because you were running for office?

Not so even after all...:slap:


Dharma to me this shows he is more in tune with what his voters want.

Opinions change all the time. It is Mr. McCains job to follow the wishes of the voters. Alot of the things you mentioned are changes of opinion over a series of events or an extended amount of time.

Hilary Clinton is accused of the same thing,and for the most part that only shows that her voters are just as fickle.

it is when a politician stands on a platform to get into office and then once elected switched scripts to the dismay of the people that got him there,that makes a "flip flopper".

You want to point out "On immigration policy in general, McCain announced in February 2008 that he would vote against his own legislation."...

well... that is because republican opinion is shifting and so is what he is expected to do while in office..........

dharmabum
04-04-2008, 01:56 PM
Dharma to me this shows he is more in tune with what his voters want.


Sorry, but when the list of flip flops gets that long and contains things that are just about principles and basic morality, such as:

* In February 2008, McCain abandoned his opposition to waterboarding.

...especially from someone who is making his own past of being a POW and getting tortured himself a part of his campaign... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywXFhulpVPk)

Than it becomes undeniable, naked political opportunism.

LiquidFork
04-04-2008, 02:13 PM
...especially from someone who is making his own past of being a POW and getting tortured himself a part of his campaign... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywXFhulpVPk)

Than it becomes undeniable, naked political opportunism.

well if the facts are as plain as you make them out to be,then yes you are very correct. How can one go on to use his past torments as a part of his campaign,yet condone the same type of treatment. If McCain is pro torture as you claim Dharma,i am definitely agree

mikezila
04-04-2008, 02:36 PM
well if the facts are as plain as you make them out to be,then yes you are very correct. How can one go on to use his past torments as a part of his campaign,yet condone the same type of treatment. If McCain is pro torture as you claim Dharma,i am definitely agree
except that the comparison between waterboarding and what he went thru is as big a span as the difference between having your ass pinched and forcible sodomy.

LiquidFork
04-04-2008, 09:17 PM
except that the comparison between waterboarding and what he went thru is as big a span as the difference between having your ass pinched and forcible sodomy.

Torture is torture bud. Once that line is crossed,the results may vary in how extreme they are,but the damage is done. We are talking about one man wanted to be raised to a higher pedestal because of his suffering,and at the same time say it is O.K to inflict that same style of treatment,well i am sorry there buddy but that is just plain morally wrong.

we can piss about who went through the most hell,but the point is both sides are agreeing to put one another thought it. That cancels each other out....

I am the first one to fight Dharma and his bleeding heart ways,and I will till the end of my days,,,,but I got to go with him on this one. Wrong is wrong no matter what color you paint it.

mikezila
04-04-2008, 10:09 PM
Torture is torture bud. Once that line is crossed,the results may vary in how extreme they are,but the damage is done. We are talking about one man wanted to be raised to a higher pedestal because of his suffering,and at the same time say it is O.K to inflict that same style of treatment,well i am sorry there buddy but that is just plain morally wrong.

we can piss about who went through the most hell,but the point is both sides are agreeing to put one another thought it. That cancels each other out....

I am the first one to fight Dharma and his bleeding heart ways,and I will till the end of my days,,,,but I got to go with him on this one. Wrong is wrong no matter what color you paint it.

among the things defined as torture include confinement, solitary confinement, bad food, sleep deprivation, physical stress from standing or sitting, and unpleasant sounds.

add some text books, and you have 4 years at an inner-city high school. what do you want them to do?

dharmabum
04-05-2008, 07:37 AM
If this is what High School was like for Mikezilla, then it would explain a lot about his mental state now.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/graphics/2006/02/16/wtort16.jpg

mikezila
04-05-2008, 06:59 PM
If this is what High School was like for Mikezilla, then it would explain a lot about his mental state now.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/graphics/2006/02/16/wtort16.jpg

nope, that was AIT.

dharmabum
04-06-2008, 06:32 AM
nope, that was AIT.

What "discomforts" did you endure during AIT?

dharmabum
04-08-2008, 04:56 PM
Torture is torture bud. Once that line is crossed,the results may vary in how extreme they are,but the damage is done.

My LF, what a bleeding heart you have. ;)


I am the first one to fight Dharma and his bleeding heart ways,and I will till the end of my days,,,,but I got to go with him on this one. Wrong is wrong no matter what color you paint it.

Sounds to me like we disagree a lot less than you might think.

dharmabum
04-19-2008, 08:13 AM
McCain opposes earmarks — except for the ones he likes (http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/04/18/mccain-opposes-earmarks-except-for-the-ones-he-likes/)

When presenting hundreds of billions of dollars in tax cuts this week, John McCain and his campaign said the cuts wouldn’t necessarily worsen the deficit. The key, they said, is McCain’s commitment to cutting spending by eliminating congressional earmarks.

On its face, the claim is simply foolish. Even if McCain could eliminate the entire practice of placing earmarks in spending bills — a dubious proposition — Taxpayers for Common Sense did an exhaustive review of the 2008 expenditures and found $18.3 billion in earmarks. With McCain’s tax cuts poised to cost about 22 times that much, the “solution” isn’t exactly budget neutral.

But this gets even more entertaining when we take a closer look at what’s included among the earmarks McCain plans to eliminate.

Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) has long portrayed himself as a staunch supporter of Israel. “Obviously,” McCain has said, “I have been a very strong proponent to the State of Israel.” He recently told the Jewish Journal that if elected president, he would “hit the ground running” and immediately get involved in the Israeli-Palestinian peace process.

It is astounding then that McCain has essentially vowed to eliminate U.S. funding assistance for Israel.

As it turns out, McCain economic adviser Douglas Holtz-Eakin said McCain, if elected, would eliminate earmarks based on the definition used by the Congressional Research Service. And that includes, among other things, “economic and military aid to Israel.”

Confronted with the implications of McCain’s proposal, his campaign said earmarked aid to Israel wouldn’t count.

It’s a reminder of why it’s difficult to take McCain seriously on matters of public policy. Pressed for details on what he believes, McCain a) loves vague generalities; b) gets easily confused; or c) decides his commitments are a lot more flexible than he’d like us to believe.

As for earmarks, he’s embraced a simplistic maxim: earmarks = waste. Confronted with evidence to the contrary, his opposition wanes. But therein lies the point — every earmark has a purpose and supporters who can defend it.

Where will McCain draw the line? He doesn’t know. How much will it save? He doesn’t know. When can we expect more concrete answers? He doesn’t know.

Freethinker
04-19-2008, 08:23 AM
Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) has long portrayed himself as a staunch supporter of Israel. “Obviously,” McCain has said, “I have been a very strong proponent to the State of Israel.” He recently told the Jewish Journal that if elected president, he would “hit the ground running” and immediately get involved in the Israeli-Palestinian peace process.

As it turns out, McCain economic adviser Douglas Holtz-Eakin said McCain, if elected, would eliminate earmarks based on the definition used by the Congressional Research Service. And that includes, among other things, “economic and military aid to Israel.”

Confronted with the implications of McCain’s proposal, his campaign said earmarked aid to Israel wouldn’t count.

One thing is certain; the ConservaCorporatist political faction that runs Washington ....iow, this nation... with an iron hand is (sadly) never going to cut out the billions in aid to Israel each year.

Karankawa
04-19-2008, 11:30 AM
Let us take a look at a few of these so-called "flip flops" real quick.

1) Changing parties for the sake of getting on the same presidential ticket as someone. I don't have a problem with this. If Obama or Clinton would take, for example, Ron Paul on their ticket, it would change my perspective.

2) McCain explained the change in stance on whether or not to promise not to raise taxes or not. He has pointed out that he has one of the best records in both houses of Congress for voting against fiscally irresponsible policies and that's good enough. Promises aren't necessary. I buy that, since he has a long record of doing exactly that.

3) The change in stance on how to handle illegal immigrants. McCain co-sponsored some of that new fangled legislature to grant amnesty among other things. It failed. McCain said that the people have spoken and changed his stance because of that. I can respect that.

I haven't heard much about the other "flip-flops." But since I can eyeball the list and can easily see these 3 major ones that are pretty ignorant without doing any research, I find this thread looking pretty dubious already.

dharmabum
04-19-2008, 11:32 AM
I haven't heard much about the other "flip-flops."

Of course not, because the conservative corporate media treats John McCain with kid gloves, ignoring or glossing over blunders and flip flops that they would fry any other candidate with.

Karankawa
04-19-2008, 11:39 AM
I just looked up the big MLK "flip flop" that you listed. Wow, you really found a nugget there. He voted against observing MLK day in....1983.....
Aren't you reaching a little bit?

The list also has a bunch of flip-flops related to taking quotes taken out of context. You have McCain talking about his confidence of victory in the initial Iraq invasion and then you quote him talking about the following war against insurgents.

Most of this list is retarded!!!!

Karankawa
04-19-2008, 11:42 AM
Haven't all 3 candidates flip flopped on ethanol?? Rofl!!!

BorgHunter
04-19-2008, 11:45 AM
Haven't all 3 candidates flip flopped on ethanol?? Rofl!!!
Ethanol is a crock. The corn lobby is way too powerful.

dharmabum
04-19-2008, 11:46 AM
I just looked up the big MLK "flip flop" that you listed. Wow, you really found a nugget there. He voted against observing MLK day in....1983.....
Aren't you reaching a little bit?

Nope. It is a very big deal in the black community.

sedan
04-19-2008, 11:53 AM
Ethanol is a crock. The corn lobby is way too powerful.Expect it to remain that way as long as the Iowa caucuses dominate the early primary season.

Any presidential candidate who doesn't kowtow to the ethanol interests is dead in the water otherwise.

Napsterbater
04-19-2008, 12:10 PM
Ethanol doesn't make any goddamn sense. This stupid piece of environmentalist crap is starving millions of people to feed the American thirst for cheap-ass gas. Thoroughly disgusting.