These are the consequences of Conservative economic policies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnnOOo6tRs8

Why doesn't our media cover this?

If the media really was "liberal", they would be having a field day with this story.

Maybe because nobody bothers reading the obscure stories you dig up in an effort to prove how bad things are in this country. Even the 'liberal' media has more scruples than you do.

BTW, granny has enough money for her L'Oreal haircolor. Forgive me if I forget to cry for her plight.

Maybe because nobody bothers reading the obscure stories you dig up in an effort to prove how bad things are in this country. Even the 'liberal' media has more scruples than you do.

BTW, granny has enough money for her L'Oreal haircolor. Forgive me if I forget to cry for her plight.

Are you crying for that Hispanic man who lost his house?

Nope. Just crying for Dhrama because nobody will help him wring his hands about this tent city in Los Angeles, California.

Boo friggin Hoo.

I swear liberals have zero knowledge of history. Iraq is the worst war ever. This is the worst economy ever. Were you all born yesterday, or is it all just an act to look like you don't know jack shit?

I swear liberals have zero knowledge of history. Iraq is the worst war ever. This is the worst economy ever. Were you all born yesterday, or is it all just an act to look like you don't know jack shit?

Put down the crack pipe.

What the F**k are you talking about?

look at the title of your thread genius. We are not even officially in a recession yet, but you are calling it a crisis with tent cities popping up like they did back in the depression.

Nope. Just crying for Dhrama because nobody will help him wring his hands about this tent city in Los Angeles, California.

Boo friggin Hoo.

As you've told us repeatedly elsewhere, all Hispanics are "more than capable of working, earning their own money, and buying their own place." Apparently, this particular Hispanic (and I'm sure there are at least two or three more like him out there - maybe even four!) hasn't been listening to your words of wisdom.

Surely you can shed just one tear of compassion for a Hispanic person that doesn't fit into your exceedingly myopic view of the immigrant world?

look at the title of your thread genius. We are not even officially in a recession yet, but you are calling it a crisis with tent cities popping up like they did back in the depression.

1. Yeah, we're not officially in a recession just like the Baltimore Orioles haven't officially been eliminated from the playoffs.

2. I wonder if the people living in the tent cities would agree that it's not a crisis.

As you've told us repeatedly elsewhere, all Hispanics are "more than capable of working, earning their own money, and buying their own place." Apparently, this particular Hispanic (and I'm sure there are at least two or three more like him out there - maybe even four!) hasn't been listening to your words of wisdom.

Surely you can shed just one tear of compassion for a Hispanic person that doesn't fit into your exceedingly myopic view of the immigrant world?

Um, Frannie.. how do you know whether he's one of those dreaded ILLEGALS you hate so much... or just a plain down-on-his-luck American?

Unlike you, I don't look at everyone with brown skin and automatically assume they're immigrants.

Actually, if Dharma is so worried about them, why doesn't he have them all shipped out to Michigan where I'm sure they could buy a mansion for the cost of a one-room apt in LA?

Excuse me, but is there or is there or is there not specific criteria for when we have officially entered a recession? The reason they made the criteria is so alarmist assholes like Dhrama, and the media, wouldn't turn ever slowdown into the great depression and create a self fulfilling prophecy. The economy, like the climate, moves in cycles. Apparently the left has chosen to ignore this and treat every transition in the cycle like the end of the world. Frankly I am sick of it.

These are the consequences of Conservative economic policies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnnOOo6tRs8
SWEET! the homeless can afford tents now instead of living under bridges!!!:woohoo:

things must be looking up!

Um, Frannie.. how do you know whether he's one of those dreaded ILLEGALS you hate so much... or just a plain down-on-his-luck American?

The man's status as a citizen of this country or any other country has nothing to do with my question. I'm talking specifically about Hispanics here, not immigration.

You've said repeatedly and with great gusto that you have the greatest admiration and respect for the Hispanic people (whether they are here legally or not); that you know them all to be hardworking, honest, decent, human beings who deserve a much better break than they've received.*

So why don't you give a crap about this one?




* On the whole, I generally agree with this sentiment, but I'm not so blind that I don't see the criminality of illegal immigration - by people from Mexico or Canada or the freakin' moon. Entering this country illegally is ... illegal. I don't care where you came from.

The man's status as a citizen of this country or any other country has nothing to do with my question. I'm talking specifically about Hispanics here, not immigration.

You've said repeatedly and with great gusto that you have the greatest admiration and respect for the Hispanic people (whether they are here legally or not); that you know them all to be hardworking, honest, decent, human beings who deserve a much better break than they've received.*

So why don't you give a crap about this one?




* On the whole, I generally agree with this sentiment, but I'm not so blind that I don't see the criminality of illegal immigration - by people from Mexico or Canada or the freakin' moon. Entering this country illegally is ... illegal. I don't care where you came from.

Funny you should use the term 'Hispanic' when the only conversations we've had dealt with MEXICANS. It's OK, Frannie. You can use the term MEXICANS... people born in Mexico don't take it as an insult!

The main problem I have drumming up sympathy for the plight of these people is that LA has one of the highest costs of living in the entire country! Guess they figure it's better to live where they might be discovered by a big movie producer... even if their 'home' happens to be a tent! At least they can get away from it all by running down to the beach for a quick dip. Or hitching a ride to a ski resort in the mountains. Certainly more than I have the luxury of doing from my reasonably priced home on the prairie.

Gimme a break. Next, Dhrama will post a tear-jerker about poor people living in tents on Martha's Vineyard.

Funny you should use the term 'Hispanic' when the only conversations we've had dealt with MEXICANS. It's OK, Frannie. You can use the term MEXICANS...

While I can clearly see that the man in question is of Hispanic decent, I have no idea if he's of Mexican decent. Unlike you, I recognize that not all Hispanic people have roots in Mexico.

At least they can get away from it all by running down to the beach for a quick dip. Or hitching a ride to a ski resort in the mountains. Certainly more than I have the luxury of doing from my reasonably priced home on the prairie.

Yes. I'm sure that's what they're all doing. Life is just one big happy party for the homeless!

:rolleyes:

Yes. I'm sure that's what they're all doing. Life is just one big happy party for the homeless!

:rolleyes:

We CHOOSE where we live, Frannie. You should know that better than anybody.

Like I've always heard... can't live a champagne life on a beer income. Unless, of course, you expect a govt handout to subsidize your tastes. In this country, we call that being a LIBERAL.

:lolhit:

P.S. You're right... the guy could be from Spain and just happened to be living in a tent in LA. Not likely, but it COULD happen. You know how those Spanish people are. *wink*

Or he could be from somewhere else in Latin America... My step-grandfather is from Honduras and he came through Mexico when he came to the U.S.

Or he could be from somewhere else in Latin America... My step-grandfather is from Honduras and he came through Mexico when he came to the U.S.

Yeah... you know how those Honduran people are.

Or *gasp* he could be 100% red-blooded 3rd generation AMERICAN, couldn't he?

Or *gasp* he could be 100% red-blooded 3rd generation AMERICAN, couldn't he?
Of course.

You're right... the guy could be from Spain and just happened to be living in a tent in LA. Not likely, but it COULD happen. You know how those Spanish people are. *wink*

Yeah... you know how those Honduran people are.

He could have been born anywhere; I wasn't talking about his country of birth. The term Hispanic refers to ethnicity.* But thanks for sharing even more of your exceedingly provincial, insular and completely uninformed (http://www.census.gov/prod/2004pubs/p20-551.pdf) knowledge of ethnicities with us.

Or *gasp* he could be 100% red-blooded 3rd generation AMERICAN, couldn't he?

Um, yes. That's why I didn't refer to him as "Mexican." That little gem of narrow-minded bias came straight from you. Good job.



* For example, not all Hispanic people come from Spain. They can also have roots in Central America (that's below Mexico on a map), or South America (look down even further below Mexico to find it).

He could have been born anywhere; I wasn't talking about his country of birth. The term Hispanic refers to ethnicity.* But thanks for sharing even more of your exceedingly provincial, insular and completely uninformed (http://www.census.gov/prod/2004pubs/p20-551.pdf) knowledge of ethnicities with us.



Um, yes. That's why I didn't refer to him as "Mexican." That little gem of narrow-minded bias came straight from you. Good job.



* For example, not all Hispanic people come from Spain. They can also have roots in Central America (that's below Mexico on a map), or South America (look down even further below Mexico to find it).

To tell ya the truth, Frannie... I never even noticed there was a BROWN-SKINNED man... only person I remember was the bleached-blonde grandma. We'll leave the pointing out people of different races to you... and feel free to call them anything you like. Wouldn't want you to change your colors now, would we?

:lolhit:

So now Frannie is a racist because she noticed that the guy was Hispanic? If she'd "noticed" that there was a black guy, would that be racist too?

So now Frannie is a racist because she noticed that the guy was Hispanic? If she'd "noticed" that there was a black guy, would that be racist too?

Yep. Did you notice whether or not there was a black guy?

the only people who are allowed to notice the color of someones skin are Democrats, and that is only because they are the ones who protect them and take care of them.

So now Frannie is a racist because she noticed that the guy was Hispanic? If she'd "noticed" that there was a black guy, would that be racist too?

Her logic just gets more twisted with every post.

the only people who are allowed to notice the color of someones skin are Democrats, and that is only because they are the ones who protect them and take care of them.

Amen, bro.

Yep. Did you notice whether or not there was a black guy?
I don't think there was. All I remember was the Hispanic guy and the blond chick. I think there also may have been a really fat chick too but now I don't remember... And maybe a white guy with a cowboy hat and an earring? (Although that may have been one of the other videos about tent cities that I watched after that one...)

Most people today don't look at others and see colors. And it always seems a little uncomfortable when you're trying to describe someone to say, 'she was that tall black girl'. Had an experience with that situation just this morning. Had a medical treatment with the same nurse who's been seeing me for 8 months now, but today she was wearing her name tag and I realized her last name is Guerra. Never really thought about the fact that she's of Mexican heritage, although she obviously is. I was asking her about another lady who was having some problems there last time I was in... I was wondering if things worked out OK for her. She looked at me and said in a real soft voice, "Was she an Afro-American woman?"

I had to LOL to myself... haven't heard anyone use that term in forever.

(BTW, the AA woman's treatment was successful and she's just fine.)

the fact that she's of Mexican heritage, although she obviously is.

There you go again. You keep digging the hole deeper! :thumbs:

Just got this in the mail, and ought to be a help to the lot of em

April 4th thru April 14th all public Libraries will be passing out
section 8 applications. Please forward someone else might need the
information

There you go again. You keep digging the hole deeper! :thumbs:

You get silly when you get desperate, Frannie.

Don't you have a garden to hoe?

You get silly when you get desperate, Frannie.

Whooooooooosshh! http://www.discussanything.com/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif

Whooooooooosshh! http://www.discussanything.com/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif



http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t33/texrose752/Thread-Dumb.jpg

things must be looking up!

Not so much for the people living in the tent city.

the only people who are allowed to notice the color of someones skin are Democrats, and that is only because they are the ones who protect them and take care of them.

Well at least you can admit you would do the opposite of protect or help them. Thats a step in the right direction.

Yes, I would teach them to be able to take care of and protect themselves, instead of nursing them along like a state controlled zombie.

Yes, I would teach them to be able to take care of and protect themselves, instead of nursing them along like a state controlled zombie.

Bullshit. You would blame them and tell them it is their own fault they cannot help themselves before turning your back on them.

That is the conservative way

Bullshit. You would blame them and tell them it is their own fault they cannot help themselves before turning your back on them.

That is the conservative way

once again the "open minded left" has to stereotype those wh disagree with them to bolster their weak arguments.

once again the "open minded left"...waaa, waaa, waaaah!

Truth hurts, doesn't it?

Wow how original. Face it. you would rather keep giving them hand outs then help them make it on thier own. The biggest fear of big government liberals like you is a self sufficient, independent population who does not need you or your handouts. Your only power is to keep giving them just enough to survive on then telling the big bad republicans are the ones keeping them from being truly free. So, they keep voting you into power based on promises you never intend to keep, because if you did you would lose your control. . You should fucking ashamed of yourself and what you stand for, it's a disgrace to the United States and what it stands for. Move to France if you want big government bullshit.

Wow how original. Face it. you would rather keep giving them hand outs then help them make it on thier own. The biggest fear of big government liberals like you is a self sufficient, independent population who does not need you or your handouts.

Complete Absolute Raving Nonsense.
I want to help them make it on their own. The only difference is, I recognize that in helping someone you have to first make sure their basic needs are met before you can effectively teach them to take care of themselves.

You think giving them a lecture is enough.

You should fucking ashamed of yourself and what you stand for, it's a disgrace to the United States and what it stands for.

You are projecting again. :rolleyes:

I have nothing to be ashamed of in what I stand for (http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_kpominvi_071216_what_do_liberals_bel.htm)- Liberty, Justice, Balance, Human Rights, Sustainability, etc.

What do you have? War, Corporatism, Voodoo Economics...?

Oh yeah, real noble stuff... :slap:

I understand it turned into something bigger than they expected (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-tentcity6mar06,1,3712683.story), but if the city committed to the Tent City and ran it properly they could turn this into good PR for them while putting a face and a spotlight on an important problem.

After creating a sanctuary where the homeless could eat, sleep and live without fear of harassment, the city of Ontario has begun ticketing and towing away the vehicles in which many of those transients reside.

Now, some of the estimated 300 residents of the fast-growing "Tent City" feel betrayed by officials they say promised to leave them alone if they moved into the city-run encampment near Ontario International Airport.
...

"This place is growing bigger than they expected," said Anne Adams, who lived in Tent City for three months. "The city started something it can't finish."

Adams, who now works for Lighthouse Ministries, believes Ontario is trying to gradually thin the numbers in the camp to reassert control over it.

"If they don't want it to be permanent, why take their only means of transportation?" she asked. "The people here are homeless. They can't afford the $165 towing charge and the $65 a day storage fees."

Not so much for the people living in the tent city.
sure it's a big step down from the McMansion they couldn't afford, but it's a step up from under a bridge.

sure it's a big step down from the McMansion they couldn't afford,

If you lose your house because you got laid off, does that mean you bought a house you couldn't afford? :slap:

but it's a step up from under a bridge.

A small step, sure.

I found a good site (http://www.dailybulletin.com/tentcity) with a collection of info about the Ontario, CA tent city.

It sounds like Washington state (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=8&url=http%3A%2F%2Fanitraweb.org%2Fhomelessness%2Ffa qs%2Ftentcities.html&ei=1fD7R4DQBKX2iAGl1Pn3BA&usg=AFQjCNHewGXKT-S8f0PQj6DIysL-QkikBw&sig2=Xpjk2UMhtUil1s4TTLkTqg) is also organizing some tent cities in order to deal chronic and increasing homelessness problems.

And because of the problems inherent with tent cities (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=3&url=http%3A%2F%2Ftentcitysolutions.com%2F&ei=1fD7R4DQBKX2iAGl1Pn3BA&usg=AFQjCNFAXRcRuqa8YlmuUVTOFFgaH8nTFQ&sig2=MzdlrrbZ8uCrnzmPpN0uDg), like communicable diseases, they are putting homelessness back in the news, in the public discussion and generating demand for quality public housing like we have not seen in America for decades.

As the credit crisis continues, homelessness is going to become more of a problem.

AMERICA- LAND of 371 BILLIONAIRES and 3.5 MILLION HOMELESS

http://www.photographyblog.com/images/photo_of_the_week/28030405/Homeless%20Dinner.jpg

Does anybody seriously believe this person got here because she bought a "McMansion" she couldn't afford?

sure it's a big step down from the McMansion they couldn't afford, but it's a step up from under a bridge.
LOL - exactly!

Honestly, Prae, you can't possibly believe that every single homeless person (or even the majority of homeless people) are homeless because of financial irresponsibility. Most homeless people come from a background of poverty (read: probably have never come close to owning their own home) and have problems with drugs/alcohol and/or mental disorders. I'd be willing to bet that people who have lost their homes recently due to irresponsibility on their part or someone else's make up only a tiny fraction of the homeless in this country. In my opinion, worrying about those people is slightly besides the point when we have hundreds of thousands of homeless veterans on the street (according to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_the_United_States), they make up about 23% of the approximately 3.5 million people who become homeless every year.)

Slaying Sparks Backlash Against Homeless

Ryan FoleyBy RYAN J. FOLEY (Associated Press Writer)
From Associated Press
April 10, 2008 4:20 PM EDT

MADISON, Wis. - The slaying of a college student in a downtown neighborhood frequented by beggars has forced this liberal city to ask a difficult question: Has Madison been too nice to the homeless?

A debate over the city's friendly treatment of its transient population had been under way for months, but last week's killing of University of Wisconsin student Brittany Zimmermann started something of a backlash against the homeless.

Police have arrested dozens of transients on unrelated charges as part of the investigation, but none are considered suspects in the death. The city also announced plans Wednesday to confront problems at a nearby park where the homeless congregate, although those efforts were in the works before the murder.

Zimmermann was slain in her apartment in the middle of the day, in a neighborhood where homeless people often went door-to-door looking for cash. Police Chief Noble Wray said Thursday that he believes the killer broke into Zimmermann's building.

In late January, a 31-year-old man was killed in his home not far from Zimmermann's residence.

Police are questioning people in the neighborhood, including the relatively large concentration of transients.

"They are a focus of the investigation," police spokesman Joel DeSpain said.

The scrutiny is unusual in a city that allows homeless people to congregate every day in the Capitol basement and offers free meals there on Sundays. The homeless panhandle on street corners in student neighborhoods and in the area between the Capitol and the university.

The city's welcoming attitude has attracted more homeless people and some beggars are becoming increasingly aggressive, police Lt. Joe Balles said.

"We've kind of institutionalized an enabling environment downtown for this transient population to grow unchecked," Balles said. "They are downtown preying largely off of that student population and really preying off a lot of our good compassion as Madisonians. In a way, they are taking advantage of us."

One problem area has been nearby Brittingham Park, where neighbors complain that transients use illegal drugs and drink alcohol all day. They often sleep in the park overnight and occasionally try to enter nearby cars and homes.

Mayor Dave Cieslewicz's office announced plans Wednesday to install surveillance cameras, increase lighting and perhaps ban repeat offenders from the area. For some residents, such measures are long overdue.

"They are frustrated," said city council member Julie Kerr, whose district includes the park.

The conflict over the transients began before Zimmermann's death.

Last month, businessman Fred Mohs threatened to take away a church's free Sunday parking in a garage he owns unless the church closed a homeless shelter. The church refused to do so and lost its parking April 1.

"They were contributing to the infrastructure that concentrates vagrants in downtown Madison," said Mohs, a prominent Republican who was widely denounced as cold-hearted. "As a group, they are bad neighbors: public urination, scary panhandling, and more than average criminal behavior. We have to recognize this is bad for downtown."

As part of the murder investigation, DeSpain said, "a couple of dozen" transients have been arrested on outstanding warrants and for violations such as trespassing and illegal drinking.

"What this crime has facilitated is a public discussion about transient people in general and what can be done in the downtown," he said. "I think people would argue that Madison is a place of compassion, and we should accommodate people. Some others have said enough is enough, and it's time that we do more."

But advocates for the homeless said the crackdown is unfair. They held a news conference Thursday to denounce the anti-homeless sentiment developing in the city.

Linda Ketcham, director of the Madison Area Urban Ministry, blasted the city's "increasing villanization of the poor" and worried it could lead to violence.

"I think they are being focused on because they are an easy scapegoat," she said. "I have no idea who committed that murder. It's a horrible crime, and it's possible that it was someone who was homeless. But that's one person. It's not a group of people. It's also possible it was someone who was not homeless."

Bob Yingling, 55, a former custodian who has been homeless for five years after losing a job, said the police harassment "is getting worse and worse."

"And when stuff like this murder happens, it can only get even worse," he said. "I mean, who else are they investigating but the transients and the homeless?"

But even some homeless people say they have it relatively easy in Madison.

Phalen Pierson, 48, said he spends six days a week lounging in the Capitol basement between shifts as a caterer. He said he could never relax the same way in his hometown of Cleveland.

"They'd call security on you," said Pierson, who has been homeless on and off for eight years. "In Madison, it's like 'here, here, here.' There's too many handouts. A lot of these guys sit on their butts all day and don't do nothing but drink."

AMERICA- LAND of 371 BILLIONAIRES and 3.5 MILLION HOMELESS

http://www.photographyblog.com/images/photo_of_the_week/28030405/Homeless%20Dinner.jpg

Does anybody seriously believe this person got here because she bought a "McMansion" she couldn't afford?
she's got an awlful lot of bagage and looks clean and well feed to me.

Makes me wonder how much Dhrama paid his mom to pose, eh?

;)
SMW

Makes me wonder how much Dhrama paid his mom to pose, eh?

;)
SMW
is that a cell phone hanging around her neck??? things sure are looking up!

She has a lot of baggage because she carries around everything she owns with her. Most likely it's mainly clothes and blankets, and maybe some supplies like matches or a pocket knife or a can opener... All the stuff I'd carry around if I were homeless anyways.

I know a homeless guy who hangs around my school a lot. He's never told me that he's homeless but I'm pretty sure he is because of all the stuff he carries around and the fact that he showers in the gym building and sleeps in the student lounge, etc. He was in Vietnam, and he seems pretty normal but sometimes I see him doing weird things like having 2 cups of McDonald's coffee and one empty cup and spending a long time just pouring coffee between the cups. Here in the DC area we have a lot of homeless veterans - I guess they think their best chance to get some help from the government/military is here.

DF, there's no question these people are out there. And they've all got stories to tell. No doubt about that. Even Dhrama's stories about folks who've lost their jobs and their homes are true.

But there are RESOURCES available to help them in every major city in the U.S., whether it's a program sponsored by the govt., or a charitable organization... or even a *gasp* religious outreach group. All they have to do is reach out and there will be people there to help.

Help them get back on their feet, that is. Not support them.

Problem comes in because there's a large number of people who PREFER living on the streets to following the rules of the financially responsible world. And there's another large group, if not the majority, who suffer from mental or emotional problems. Ideally, the govt should be taking care of them, but some politicians in the past decided to downsize govt operated mental institutions and dumped most patients out on the streets. Today, it's not PC to forcibly institutionalize unless it involves a mass murder, so as a society, we have to come up with a solution. WE, as in the people. Not as in Uncle Sam. He got out of that business years ago.

Unfortunately, the solution isn't as simple as throwing more govt money at them. According to Frogger's claim, every illegal alien -- man, woman and child in this country costs us $28,000 a year EACH. We can't afford to subsidize any more socially-unacceptable people. Especially if they don't want to use what's already being offered to climb out of their situation.

SMW

AMERICA- LAND of 371 BILLIONAIRES and 3.5 MILLION HOMELESS

http://www.photographyblog.com/images/photo_of_the_week/28030405/Homeless%20Dinner.jpg

Does anybody seriously believe this person got here because she bought a "McMansion" she couldn't afford?

That's Obviously a Russian peasant woman.Notice how she dresses.
Plain,yet well adaptive to her environ.She's ready to tackle the
elements.Notice also the old stone structure she is situated next
to.It's old,yet it appears to have been swept.Probably isn't even
dusty.Also note how her gear { bags } are tidy and well bundled.
If she's a street person,she's awfully well organized and
equipped.
Like I said,proilly an elderly Peasant woman in Old Europe.
Maybe Hungry or the Ukraine.
Maybe St.Petersburg.
I'd love to be where she is ... sippin some nice bottle of Red
Vintage Wine.And of course a nice sleeping bag to lay,later,
fer me nap.
I wood.

That's Obviously a Russian peasant woman.Notice how she dresses.
Plain,yet well adaptive to her environ.She's ready to tackle the
elements.Notice also the old stone structure she is situated next
to.It's old,yet it appears to have been swept.Probably isn't even
dusty.Also note how her gear { bags } are tidy and well bundled.
If she's a street person,she's awfully well organized and
equipped.
Like I said,proilly an elderly Peasant woman in Old Europe.
Maybe Hungry or the Ukraine.
Maybe St.Petersburg.
I'd love to be where she is ... sippin some nice bottle of Red
Vintage Wine.And of course a nice sleeping bag to lay,later,
fer me nap.
I wood.

European peasant women are just fine. American peasant women are totally unacceptable. Strange world, ain't it?

European peasant women are just fine. American peasant women are totally unacceptable. Strange world, ain't it?

I'm not familiar with American Peasant Women.
Where they hang out at.?

...

Unfortunately, the solution isn't as simple as throwing more govt money at them. According to Frogger's claim, every illegal alien -- man, woman and child in this country costs us $28,000 a year EACH. We can't afford to subsidize any more socially-unacceptable people. Especially if they don't want to use what's already being offered to climb out of their situation.
Great post. I totally agree with everything you said (just didn't quote it all in the interest of saving space). :)

I'm not familiar with American Peasant Women.
Where they hang out at.?
Iowa

Great post. I totally agree with everything you said (just didn't quote it all in the interest of saving space). :)

Thanks, sweetie. Glad we see eye to eye on this issue.

:thumbs:
SMW

she's got an awlful lot of bagage

All her worldly possessions are in a bag she carries with her.
The rest of it looks like garbage pickings.

and looks clean

how can you tell? She is covered almost completely in clothes.

and well feed to me.

She has multiple layers of clothes on.
We are both looking at the same thing and seeing something completely different.

This is where our lack of compassion as a society has gotten us.


3 Florida teens charged with murdering homeless person. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10834294/)

Murder of homeless woman in Berkley (http://www.createpeaceathome.org/streetspirit/2005/april2005/womanmurdered.htm)
Mary Katherine King, a 45-year-old woman who had a master's degree in history and had worked as a teacher before becoming homeless, was sleeping near the corner of California Street and University Avenue in Berkeley. While she slept, all alone, four men came up to her after midnight, and two of them kicked her in the head and beat her into unconsciousness.

Teen 'sport killings' of homeless on the rise
(http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/02/19/homeless.attacks/index.html)
MILWAUKEE, Wisconsin (CNN) -- All Nathan Moore says he wanted to do was smoke pot and get drunk with his friends.

Killing Rex Baum was never part of the plan that day in 2004.

"It all started off as a game," Moore said.

The 15-year-old and his friends were taunting the homeless man -- throwing sticks and leaves -- after having a couple of beers with him.

No big deal, Moore says, but he's sorry for what came next.

It was a mistake, he said, a sudden primal surge that made him and his friends Luis Oyola, 16, and 17-year-old Andrew Ihrcke begin punching and kicking Baum.

"Luis says 'I'm gonna go hit him,' We're all laughing, thought he was joking around,'" but he wasn't, Moore concedes. "We just all started hitting him."

They hurled anything they could find -- rocks, bricks, even Baum's barbecue grill -- and pounded the 49-year-old with a pipe and with the baseball bat he kept at his campsite for protection.

Ihrcke smeared his own feces on Baum's face before cutting him with a knife "to see if he was alive," Moore said.

is that a cell phone hanging around her neck??? things sure are looking up!

If it is, do you really think she can afford service?

Great post. I totally agree with everything you said (just didn't quote it all in the interest of saving space). :)

I only read what you quoted, but I find it hard to believe that you agree with her that homeless are "socially-unacceptable people" who don't deserve the right kind of help. For the most part, they are being offered a cup of coffee, a meal and a cot right now when they need mental health counseling and someplace they can stay with an address and a phone so they can look for work.

People need more than a lecture if they are really going to pull themselves up and get back into society.

If it is, do you really think she can afford service?
i think you found a pic of some lady the photographer thought was homeless....what i'm seeing is some granny outside a bus station, waiting for her grand kids to pick her up.

i think you found a pic of some lady the photographer thought was homeless....what i'm seeing is some granny outside a bus station, waiting for her grand kids to pick her up.

You're being wilfully ignorant, Mike. Makes you look foolish.

Take a walk through any inner city and really take a look at the people you see on the streets and in the alleyways. You sincerely think the guys pushing around massively overloaded shopping carts are just doing their civic duty and bringing them back to the stores they were stolen from? You honestly believe the guy in the sleeping bag in a boarded-up business's doorway is on an urban campout? You're actually convinced this little old lady wearing five layers of clothes lives in a nice one-bedroom walkup with a cat and a budgie?

Come on.

:slap:

You're being wilfully ignorant, Mike. Makes you look foolish.

Take a walk through any inner city and really take a look at the people you see on the streets and in the alleyways. You sincerely think the guys pushing around massively overloaded shopping carts are just doing their civic duty and bringing them back to the stores they were stolen from? You honestly believe the guy in the sleeping bag in a boarded-up business's doorway is on an urban campout? You're actually convinced this little old lady wearing five layers of clothes lives in a nice one-bedroom walkup with a cat and a budgie?

Come on.

:slap:

i lived i Flint, MI for almost half my life, and the other half bouncing between coasts-i know what homeless ppl look like.

For the most part, they are being offered a cup of coffee, a meal and a cot right now when they need mental health counseling and someplace they can stay with an address and a phone so they can look for work.
Hardly. There are so many programs designed to help the homeless find jobs and housing and get them help for their mental and substance abuse problems. Of course I'm not as knowledgeable about the rest of the country, but I've definitely read about and seen several programs in my area that concentrate on the housing and job search aspects of helping the homeless.

By the way, I suggest you read the rest of SMW's post. She points out that there are resources for homeless people in every major city, including government programs and both religious and non-religious charities. She also says that we (the people of the U.S., not the government) should be finding solutions for homelessness and helping these people, especially those with mental health problems. She most certainly did not say that they don't deserve any help.

Hardly. There are so many programs designed to help the homeless find jobs and housing and get them help for their mental and substance abuse problems. Of course I'm not as knowledgeable about the rest of the country, but I've definitely read about and seen several programs in my area that concentrate on the housing and job search aspects of helping the homeless.

By the way, I suggest you read the rest of SMW's post. She points out that there are resources for homeless people in every major city, including government programs and both religious and non-religious charities. She also says that we (the people of the U.S., not the government) should be finding solutions for homelessness and helping these people, especially those with mental health problems. She most certainly did not say that they don't deserve any help.
And I have no problem with that, whatsoever - just don't FORCE me to pay for someone who refuses to do what's right for themselves (barring the physically and mentally handicapped, of course).

Hardly. There are so many programs designed to help the homeless find jobs and housing and get them help for their mental and substance abuse problems.

Yes, there are lot of different, sporadic programs, but since most of them are private they are also underfunded and stretched beyond capacity. I know, I have been volunteering for my church for the last 5 years with homeless people and runaway teens.



Of course I'm not as knowledgeable about the rest of the country, but I've definitely read about and seen several programs in my area that concentrate on the housing and job search aspects of helping the homeless.

Thats good for your area, but that is only your area.


She also says that we (the people of the U.S., not the government) should be finding solutions for homelessness and helping these people, especially those with mental health problems.

I cannot disagree with that idea more strenuously. We are a Democracy and as a Democracy, our government is us. It is the instrument by which we the people can most effectively find and implement any solutions to homelessness. To claim that the government should play no role is like trying to build a cabinet and leaving all your tools at home. It is purposely making the entire job harder for no good reason.

It's all the fault of G W Bush!!

He stood there demanding that people are intitled to a loan.

(even if the bank thought they wouldn't be able to pay it back)

We have to give them a loan so they can buy a house.

Oh wait....................... It was Carter not Bush.

(even if the bank thought they wouldn't be able to pay it back)


Are you seriously trying to claim the banks were forced into making those loans?

Honestly, Prae, you can't possibly believe that every single homeless person (or even the majority of homeless people) are homeless because of financial irresponsibility.
No, they're homeless because they were irresponsible, period. Personal finances are only one portion of the equation.
Most homeless people come from a background of poverty (read: probably have never come close to owning their own home) and have problems with drugs/alcohol and/or mental disorders.
With the exception of the last condition, everything you've mentioned is a product of their own doing. Sooner or later, blame has to be placed where it belongs, and consequently, I shouldn't be forced to support people who won't (NOT CAN'T) support themselves. I know this sounds cold, and I'm sorry for saying it, but fuck 'em. If you refuse to work, then I should be offered the ability to refuse my support. This is America....if you can't make it here, then try France - they love "victims" there.
I'd be willing to bet that people who have lost their homes recently due to irresponsibility on their part or someone else's make up only a tiny fraction of the homeless in this country.
And I'd agree. Those people have fallen on hard times. That happens to everyone, and it builds character when it does.

Prae, wikipedia says that more than half of all homeless people reported having worked in the past week. Since when is that "refusing to get a job"?

It is much easier to refuse to help someone when you can blame them for the situation they are in.
It helps ease what little tiny pangs of guilt they might otherwise have had.

Complete Absolute Raving Nonsense.
I want to help them make it on their own. The only difference is, I recognize that in helping someone you have to first make sure their basic needs are met before you can effectively teach them to take care of themselves.

I'm calling bullshit. Such an attitude clearly doesn't extend to the situation in iraq.

I'm calling bullshit. Such an attitude clearly doesn't extend to the situation in iraq.

Of course it does.
We have not been meeting their basic needs, as I have been pointing out by talking about the 50% unemployment rate and sporadic power.

Maybe because nobody bothers reading the obscure stories you dig up in an effort to prove how bad things are in this country. Even the 'liberal' media has more scruples than you do.

BTW, granny has enough money for her L'Oreal haircolor. Forgive me if I forget to cry for her plight.


I'm waiting for someone to just politely ask Our
Captain America/Underdog exactly what dramatic event or
series of events happenstanced to cause such morbid trepidation
over Conservatives and The Party of Hawks.
I hope he don't like ... ramble on about how as a Virile young
college age man,he went right down to the local recruitment office
of the Selective Service { dressed in his Captain America outfit }
and dutifully asked for an application form to take home and ponder.
And their reply was sure ... Bub.That's all we do.
Now kindly remove your little red wagon from the handicapped parking
out front and we'll gladly call you if yer services are warranted.
Er some such theatrics.

Prae, wikipedia says that more than half of all homeless people reported having worked in the past week.
Sure, they would; I'd be willing to bet none of 'em wanna sound like they're dead weight. They’ll "work for food", too, remember? Like, when was the last time someone forked over a twenty to homeless man who was holding that sign and said, 'hey, you can't just have this.....I want you to wash my car first'?

Speaking of homeless people, I have a great extortion story for you later. :D If you didn't think I was the world's BIGGEST dickhead (READ; EVIL) before, then rest assured - you will on Monday. LOL - people are gonna HATE me after this....
Since when is that "refusing to get a job"?
Well, aside from taking them at their word, I'd say the proof is in the pudding, DF. We all fall on hard times - it's how we pick ourselves up that counts.

I mean, seriously - you can't tell me when someone's been homeless for an extended period of time that they're "trying" hard enough. I'm sorry, but I'm just not buyin' it.

I mean, seriously - you can't tell me when someone's been homeless for an extended period of time that they're "trying" hard enough. I'm sorry, but I'm just not buyin' it.
Less than 1/4 the homeless are "chronically" homeless, which means multiple times for long periods, and nearly all of those have mental health or drug/alcohol addiction problems. Basically you're saying that schizophrenic drug addicts who can't get a job "aren't trying hard enough". How could you expect them to live a normal life when they can't even communicate like a normal person?

Yes, there are lot of different, sporadic programs, but since most of them are private they are also underfunded and stretched beyond capacity. I know, I have been volunteering for my church for the last 5 years with homeless people and runaway teens.

Thats good for your area, but that is only your area.

I cannot disagree with that idea more strenuously. We are a Democracy and as a Democracy, our government is us. It is the instrument by which we the people can most effectively find and implement any solutions to homelessness. To claim that the government should play no role is like trying to build a cabinet and leaving all your tools at home. It is purposely making the entire job harder for no good reason.

I know the panty-waist DQ won't read this response... but I'm gonna post it anyway.

He's right about one thing... many of the private programs to help the homeless are underfunded. However, there is a reason for that and it's not a lack of funds available. MOST funders these days require a program to prove it's worth before continuing funds are given. In previous years, grant reporting was something only private foundations required, but more recently even giant community funds (like United Way) are requiring programs they fund to report back with specific statistics before being granted more $$$.

I'm not saying it's a good thing, but it's obviously a sign of the times. People are no longer interested in just throwing money at a problem without seeing some results. It's much easier for private and religious programs to change directions and try out new methods than it would be for the Fed Govt.

It all comes down to HOW TO HELP PEOPLE WHO DON'T WANT HELP.

Some homeless people do want help and take that offer of assistance. But the great MAJORITY of them don't want a hand-up... they want a hand-out. Then another hand-out. Then another.

Funders are not interested in playing that game any more than the Fed Govt should be interested in taking their place.

Again, it's society's place to solve the problem... not the govt's.

If about half of the smart young men and women currently majoring in computer science would change their major to social work degrees, our society might well come up with a solution. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening anytime soon. Much easier to sit back and expect somebody else to solve the problem.

SMW

Less than 1/4 the homeless are "chronically" homeless, which means multiple times for long periods, and nearly all of those have mental health or drug/alcohol addiction problems. Basically you're saying that schizophrenic drug addicts who can't get a job "aren't trying hard enough".
Do you honestly believe that only 1/4 of the people you see panhandling are chronically homeless? Even if that's the case, then morally speaking, how can you expect someone be swayed by an emotional appeal to understand their decision to use drugs? Schizophrenia aside, if they've got mental issues, then perhaps they should already be committed to an institution courtesy of the taxpaying public.

I'm sorry, but if Darwin was a businessman, then those people would be left to rot, end of story. Maybe it should be up to their families to provide them with a better living arrangement, 'cause it sure-as-shit shouldn't be up to me and MY pocketbook. In short, if I wanted dependants, then I'd have kids.
How could you expect them to live a normal life when they can't even communicate like a normal person?
They communicate amazingly well. Have you ever been approached by one BEFORE they get their fix (excluding the 1/4 that suffer from schizophrenia, of course ;) )?

Do you honestly believe that only 1/4 of the people you see panhandling are chronically homeless? Even if that's the case, then morally speaking, how can you expect someone be swayed by an emotional appeal to understand their decision to use drugs? Schizophrenia aside, if they've got mental issues, then perhaps they should already be committed to an institution courtesy of the taxpaying public.

I'm sorry, but if Darwin was a businessman, then those people would be left to rot, end of story. Maybe it should be up to their families to provide them with a better living arrangement, 'cause it sure-as-shit shouldn't be up to me and MY pocketbook. In short, if I wanted dependants, then I'd have kids.

They communicate amazingly well. Have you ever been approached by one BEFORE they get their fix (excluding the 1/4 that suffer from schizophrenia, of course ;) )?

Schizophrenia aside, if they've got mental issues, then perhaps they should already be committed to an institution courtesy of the taxpaying public.

Therein lies the problem, Prae. The taxpaying public (IOW the govt) doesn't do public institutions anymore. Only for the criminally insane. As a general rule, a schizo and/or their family can only get temporary help. Then it's back out on the streets.

IMHO, seems like the 'bums' saw the 'crazies' surviving under the bridges and figured, "Hell, I can do that. Much easier to drum up drug money if one doesn't have to actually work every day!"

Those two started their own private society where everyday is spring break.

I don't mind helping to find a solution... but like I said before... throwing money at them isn't it.

Therein lies the problem, Prae. The taxpaying public (IOW the govt) doesn't do public institutions anymore. Only for the criminally insane. As a general rule, a schizo and/or their family can only get temporary help. Then it's back out on the streets.

IMHO, seems like the 'bums' saw the 'crazies' surviving under the bridges and figured, "Hell, I can do that. Much easier to drum up drug money if one doesn't have to actually work every day!"

Those two started their own private society where everyday is spring break.

I don't mind helping to find a solution... but like I said before... throwing money at them isn't it.
Well, it's not the first time I've been uninformed. :) I still think that treating the mentally ill should be the responsibility of their respective families, but what you're saying here does change my perspective on the circumstances somewhat. That said, using DF's figures, the mentally ill contingent we're talking about here only represents 25 percent of the homeless population, so as far I'm concerned, the other 75 percent can go to hell. They're not my responsibility, and IMO, the government has no right MAKING them my responsibility.

I know the panty-waist DQ won't read this response... but I'm gonna post it anyway.

He's right about one thing... many of the private programs to help the homeless are underfunded. However, there is a reason for that and it's not a lack of funds available. MOST funders these days require a program to prove it's worth before continuing funds are given. In previous years, grant reporting was something only private foundations required, but more recently even giant community funds (like United Way) are requiring programs they fund to report back with specific statistics before being granted more $$$.

I'm not saying it's a good thing, but it's obviously a sign of the times. People are no longer interested in just throwing money at a problem without seeing some results. It's much easier for private and religious programs to change directions and try out new methods than it would be for the Fed Govt.

It all comes down to HOW TO HELP PEOPLE WHO DON'T WANT HELP.

Some homeless people do want help and take that offer of assistance. But the great MAJORITY of them don't want a hand-up... they want a hand-out. Then another hand-out. Then another.

Funders are not interested in playing that game any more than the Fed Govt should be interested in taking their place.

Again, it's society's place to solve the problem... not the govt's.

If about half of the smart young men and women currently majoring in computer science would change their major to social work degrees, our society might well come up with a solution. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening anytime soon. Much easier to sit back and expect somebody else to solve the problem.

SMW
Great post, SMW.

Great post, SMW.

Not really.

SWM has said that same thing before and the problem with it is that in a Democracy, the government is we, the people.

When you say "society should help them", I agree.
But I acknowledge that the best tool for society to help them in a Democracy is the government. Waiting around for the wealthy to take the initiative on their own means it will never get done. Just look at Katrina. If there is so much private charity available then why is New Orleans still such a mess?

There are just some jobs that only the government can do.

YES!! Banks were forced to make a certian percentage of sub-prime loans.

Are you seriously trying to claim the banks were forced into making those loans?

Prae: I'd say that the people you see panhandling don't even represent a majority of the homeless. I have been homeless before, when I was 8 or 9. My mom was never out on the street begging, but we lived in the car for a few months. I suspect that most homeless people (the ones who aren't the chronically homeless) are those types. Something like 80% of the people who become homeless each year are homeless for less than a month.

When you say "society should help them", I agree.
But I acknowledge that the best tool for society to help them in a Democracy is the government. Waiting around for the wealthy to take the initiative on their own means it will never get done.

I have an idea - why not take the initiative on your own? Nah, let's use the power of government to take someone else's money so you can feel generous, without any real sacrifice on your part.

Just look at Katrina. If there is so much private charity available then why is New Orleans still such a mess?

New Orleans and Louisiana were unholy political messes before Katrina - it's not surprising that they remain in that state.

I have an idea - why not take the initiative on your own? Nah, let's use the power of government to take someone else's money so you can feel generous, without any real sacrifice on your part.



New Orleans and Louisiana were unholy political messes before Katrina - it's not surprising that they remain in that state.

I couldn't agree more, Lionel. DQ has a way of simplifying complex social issues so he can blame the govt for not fixing everything. He's a LIBERAL in the truest sense of the word.



Liberals are very broadminded: they are always willing to give careful consideration to both sides of the same side.
Anonymous

Great post, SMW.

Thx, Nap. That means alot, coming from you.

:thumbs:
SMW

When Ronald Reagan was governor of California he systematically began closing down mental hospitals,later as president he would cut aid for federally-funded community mental health programs. it is not a coincedence that the homelss populations in the state of California grew in the seventies and eighties. The people were literally put out on the street when mental hospitals started to close all over the state. Thanks a lot!

Seeing an increase in crime and brutal murders by Herb Mullins, a mental health hospital patient put out on the streets by Reagan,(www.crimelibrary.com (http://www.crimelibrary.com)) type in Herb Mullins to see the the horrible murders he committed), the California legislature passed a law that would stop Reagan from closing even more state-funded mental health hospitals. but Reagan would not be outdone. In 1980, congress proposed new legislation(PL 96-398)called the community health systems act(crafted by Ted Kennedy), but the program was killed by newly-elected President Ronald Reagan. This action ended the federal community mental health centers program and its funding. And by the way the tent city is in Ontario not LA, which is 40 miles away.

Of course it does.
We have not been meeting their basic needs, as I have been pointing out by talking about the 50% unemployment rate and sporadic power.

And your solution is not to assist them but rather withdraw and leave them to their own devices.

And your solution is not to assist them but rather withdraw and leave them to their own devices.

Wrong again.
I have been saying for years that we need a Marshall Plan for Iraq.

YES!! Banks were forced to make a certian percentage of sub-prime loans.

They were never forced to give the loans.

I have an idea - why not take the initiative on your own? Nah, let's use the power of government to take someone else's money so you can feel generous, without any real sacrifice on your part.

The government takes everyone's money in taxes, including mine.

One person by themselves cannot do that much.
Therein lies the problem.



New Orleans and Louisiana were unholy political messes before Katrina - it's not surprising that they remain in that state.

Since they were not given the help they need I agree it is no surprise they remain in that state.

Dhrama's solution is to use the homeless as pawns to bolster his political arguments. After all, if you can't blame the Cons for all the ills of the country, what fun is it to be a Lib?

So next time you pass by a homeless person screaming to themselves at the top of their lungs,remember Reagan. And if your kids need to go out and get jobs at age 9 to pay down the national debt, be sure to tell them that they can think Ronald Reagan, and now President Bush, for their misfortune. All this wealth and can't spare a little extra to help out our citizens who need it but these crazy conservatives don't blink an eye when it comes to backing a illegal war!