Some states do hold the mother responsible for certain behaviors while pregnant.
"New federal guidelines ask all females capable of conceiving a baby to treat themselves -- and to be treated by the health care system -- as pre-pregnant, regardless of whether they plan to get pregnant anytime soon."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/15/AR2006051500875_pf.html

Here's your post in its entirety
"It's punishment for the unwanted child who will most likely not have the best life..."

Am I missing something here?
I was referring to the post you (partially) quoted in post #95.

"New federal guidelines ask all females capable of conceiving a baby to treat themselves -- and to be treated by the health care system -- as pre-pregnant, regardless of whether they plan to get pregnant anytime soon."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/15/AR2006051500875_pf.html
....Lovely.

If a fetus is a person, why don't we have a funeral for a miscarriage?
it's been done. since funerals are for the living survivors, it depends on how attached the parents are.

So what? Fruit flies are unique too. In fact, one fruit fly can be as genetically different from another fruit fly as a human is from a chimpanzee. Do you think we should stop killing them?
if we were fruit flies, i'd say yes.

if we were fruit flies, i'd say yes.
So your argument is that we shouldn't abort fetuses because they are human fetuses. There you go, that's a perfectly good argument.

Saying that fetuses shouldn't be aborted because they have DNA is not a good argument, nor is the fact that they are "unique".

So he could say that it's important because it's human, which is a valid argument. Saying that fetus shouldn't be aborted because it has DNA is not.
it's not because they have human DNA, it's because it's unique human DNA. i have every right to decide my own fate, but not the fate of others unless they threaten my survival.

it's not because they have human DNA, it's because it's unique human DNA.
So you think that killing an identical twin is A-OK, as long as you don't kill both?

So your argument is that we shouldn't abort fetuses because they are human fetuses. There you go, that's a perfectly good argument.

Saying that fetuses shouldn't be aborted because they have DNA is not a good argument, nor is the fact that they are "unique".
unique human DNA....i thought i made that quite clear when i jumped in?

So you think that killing an identical twin is A-OK, as long as you don't kill both?you pick which one, i'm not up to it.

How sad, to me, that human life is so dis-regarded. Comparing a fetus, with the ability to grow into a real, live person to bacteria that you wash down the drain? Unbelievable.

Some keep puching the line back in the name of convenience.

Convenience or not, it's still murder.

As for Darks statement about germs having their own DNA, and my murdering them when I wash my hands...........

Germs can be harmfull to humans, and oh wait........... last time I checked germs are not human.


embryo, fetus, infant, toddler-where do you want to draw the line?

No. Your and Echo's eerily similar analogy stated that "if life begins at conception then every miscarriage should be investigated as a possible infanticide." as if natural deaths were investigated as homicides.
They aren't.

This reminds me of a quote somebody has as their signature.
"If you have to exaggerate my point to make me wrong, you've already given up."

You do not know that all miscarriages are "natural deaths". Thats the point.


It was a poorly planned comparison.

Yes, your comparison certainly was. Thank you for acknowledging it.

LF this is a bit of a cheap shot, c'mon.

If your gonna nit pic over every word, the current President would be the laughing stock of the western world.

George W Bush's comments,views,ideals,or personal beliefs have nothing to do with the subject of this thread,or the opinions contained inside.

I am not sure how things work in Ireland,but in the United States ones actions,or words are not validated or discredited based on the what the president of the united states does in a similar situation.

George W Bush's comments,views,ideals,or personal beliefs have nothing to do with the subject of this thread,or the opinions contained inside.

Yes, they do. It is a direct comparison because both Obama and Bush are people who did or are running for the office of President and you are holding them to two totally different standards.

Germs can be harmfull to humans, and oh wait........... last time I checked germs are not human.
Last I checked, a fetus was not a self-sustainable human being either. I'm not even asking you to agree with that, just to acknowledge that it's a valid opinion. I think we both know that nobody's mind is going to be changed on this subject.

Guess what else has its own DNA.... The bacteria that you kill when you wash your hands. MURDERER!!!!!

And the discussion descends to idiocy. It takes a reeeeeaaaaaal stretch to go from aborting human babies to washing one's hands. Even Planned Parenthood doesn't try to use this silly argument.

Ants have DNA. As DF said, bacteria have DNA. Hell, smallpox has DNA.

And another poster descends to idiocy.

Originally Posted by BorgHunter
Ants have DNA. As DF said, bacteria have DNA. Hell, smallpox has DNA.

And another poster descends to idiocy.

It is quite revealing that you'd call a statement "idiocy", when that statement is 100% factual from a scientific basis.

Ants, bacteria and smallpox all do --I regret to inform you-- have DNA.

Try as you might to refute it or pretend that it isn't so, you cannot.

It is quite revealing that you'd call a statement "idiocy", when that statement is 100% factual from a scientific basis.

Ants, bacteria and smallpox all do --I regret to inform you-- have DNA.

Try as you might to refute it or pretend that it isn't so, you cannot.

.....and they all have the potential to grow into a human being....smart.

It is quite revealing that you'd call a statement "idiocy", when that statement is 100% factual from a scientific basis.

Ants, bacteria and smallpox all do --I regret to inform you-- have DNA.

Try as you might to refute it or pretend that it isn't so, you cannot.


I didn't think he was trying to pretend that they don't.

*shrugs shoulders*

I was referring to the post you (partially) quoted in post #95.My original comments were about your and Dhrama's opinion that some lives are better off not having started.

Your response to that was an off topic discussion about abortion in general, and not about the very specific observation I had made.

Since I wasn't referring to any of that stuff with you, I didn't think you were referring to it either.

It is quite revealing that you'd call a statement "idiocy", when that statement is 100% factual from a scientific basis.

Ants, bacteria and smallpox all do --I regret to inform you-- have DNA.

Try as you might to refute it or pretend that it isn't so, you cannot.

Stop acting like an ass, Freethinker. I know they have DNA. I also know that equating them with humans is idiocy.

You do not know that all miscarriages are "natural deaths". Thats the point.

Then why would your analogy say that they should ALL be investigated as such, To wit: "For instance, if life begins at conception then every miscarriage should be investigated as a possible infanticide."

That's where your analogy goes horribly wrong.

That's the point.

Then why would your analogy say that they should ALL be investigated as such [/COLOR]


I will say it again, slowly, because you seem to have trouble grasping this simple concept.

You... do... not... know... that... all... miscarriages... are... natural... deaths....

Therefore... if... life... begins....at...conception... you... have... to...investigate...them...all....for...potential.. .infanticide.

THAT is the point.
Did it sink in yet or do you need me to draw you a diagram? :rolleyes:

Good lord, nine pages over this garbage. Nobody has anything substantial to attack Obama with, so Republicans run over every single little thing the man says with a fine tooth comb trying to get some dirt, any dirt. No detail too specious, no utterance too trivial. Reminds me of the last Democrat in office, and every Democratic nominee and candidate going back twenty years. Anything to get another warmongering, ignorant jackal in office. Could Republicans ever field anything else? I'm beginning to think the answer is no.

Good lord, nine pages over this garbage. Nobody has anything substantial to attack Obama with, so Republicans run over every single little thing the man says with a fine tooth comb trying to get some dirt, any dirt. No detail too specious, no utterance too trivial. Reminds me of the last Democrat in office, and every Democratic nominee and candidate going back twenty years. Anything to get another warmongering, ignorant jackal in office. Could Republicans ever field anything else? I'm beginning to think the answer is no.

http://www.cagle.com/working/080327/matson.jpg

Good lord, nine pages over this garbage. Nobody has anything substantial to attack Obama with, .....
If I found a thread to be this far below my dignity I would certainly keep away.

Therefore... if... life... begins....at...conception... you... have... to...investigate...them...all....for...potential.. .infanticide.

Criminal ....investigations .....are ........conducted ..........when ......a ...........death........ appears......... suspicious.

A.......... routine....... cause........ of .........death .........is .........assumed .....to ........be ....just ........that, ....unless.... circumstances ........or .......evidence ..........suggest .....otherwise.

Therefore...... if......... it .......was......... determined .........that......... life..... began......... at .........conception, ........every .........miscarriage... would .......NOT......... have........ to....... be........... investigated.

We've spent a lot of time on what amounts to a poor analogy.

Nobody has anything substantial to attack Obama with, so Republicans run over every single little thing the man says with a fine tooth comb trying to get some dirt, any dirt.

Well, yeah. That's no surprise whatsoever.

That's what the dishonest bastards on the far Right do to EVERY person they run against.

B*sh and his band of thoroughly dishonest operatives (read; Karl Rove and company) who were running his presidential campaign even pulled this shit, eight years ago, against one of their own --John McCain-- when they began a push polling campaign to spread the rumor that he had an illegitimate black child.

There is nothing that the Rove faction of the Neo-Cons will not do, no trick too low or underhanded, to character assassinate their opponent.

Well, yeah. That's no surprise whatsoever.

That's what the dishonest bastards on the far Right do to EVERY person they run against.

B*sh and his band of thoroughly dishonest operatives (read; Karl Rove and company) who were running his presidential campaign even pulled this shit, eight years ago, against one of their own --John McCain-- when they began a push polling campaign to spread the rumor that he had an illegitimate black child.

There is nothing that the Rove faction of the Neo-Cons will not do, no trick too low or underhanded, to character assassinate their opponent.

Yes. That's why I can't stand McCain. Even after being abused by Bush/Rove , he still chooses to be a Bush asslicker.

A.......... routine....... cause........ of .........death .........is .........assumed .....to ........be ....just ........that, ....unless.... circumstances ........or .......evidence ..........suggest .....otherwise.

How can you call the cause of death "routine" when you have no possible way of knowing that without an investigation?

You are being ridiculous.

Brooks,

Don't waste your time trying to communicate with dharmabum. He is once again exhibiting his inability to follow and understand even the simplest of explainations. You might as well try talking to a turnip.

I will say it again, slowly, because you seem to have trouble grasping this simple concept.

You... do... not... know... that... all... miscarriages... are... natural... deaths....

Therefore... if... life... begins....at...conception... you... have... to...investigate...them...all....for...potential.. .infanticide.

THAT is the point.
Did it sink in yet or do you need me to draw you a diagram? :rolleyes:



Miscarriages are natural deaths,the womans body decides to "get rid of" the fetus for reasons that are to this day a mystery......when the expulsion of an unborn child is forced then you can investigate to your hearts content.



miscarriage



Main Entry: mis·car·riage
Pronunciation: \ˌmis-ˈker-ij, -ˈka-rij, ˈmis-ˌ\
Function: noun
Date: circa 1652
1: corrupt or incompetent management; especially : a failure in the administration of justice
2: spontaneous expulsion of a human fetus before it is viable and especially between the 12th and 28th weeks of gestation

Miscarriages are natural deaths,the womans body decides to "get rid of" the fetus for reasons that are to this day a mystery......when the expulsion of an unborn child is forced then you can investigate to your hearts content.



miscarriage



Main Entry: mis·car·riage
Pronunciation: \ˌmis-ˈker-ij, -ˈka-rij, ˈmis-ˌ\
Function: noun
Date: circa 1652
1: corrupt or incompetent management; especially : a failure in the administration of justice
2: spontaneous expulsion of a human fetus before it is viable and especially between the 12th and 28th weeks of gestation
you'd think he of all ppl would be intimately familiar with the word:lolhit:

Miscarriages are natural deaths,the womans body decides to "get rid of" the fetus for reasons that are to this day a mystery......when the expulsion of an unborn child is forced then you can investigate to your hearts content.



miscarriage



Main Entry: mis·car·riage
Pronunciation: \ˌmis-ˈker-ij, -ˈka-rij, ˈmis-ˌ\
Function: noun
Date: circa 1652
1: corrupt or incompetent management; especially : a failure in the administration of justice
2: spontaneous expulsion of a human fetus before it is viable and especially between the 12th and 28th weeks of gestation

Yay.then by all means.
The Democrat Party is Literally a Miscarriage.

How can you call the cause of death "routine" when you have no possible way of knowing that without an investigation?

You are being ridiculous.
If a person is found deceased (in his bed, in his yard, etc.) the first assumption is that it is natural unless circumstances show the possibility it is not.

Try to apply that to your analogy and you'll see why it never really made sense.

If a person is found deceased (in his bed, in his yard, etc.) the first assumption is that it is natural unless circumstances show the possibility it is not.

Yes, with actual people we can figure if it was a death from natural causes or if foul play was involved because we have a body. How can we tell if someone got an abortion or just had a miscarriage?

Yes, with actual people we can figure if it was a death from natural causes or if foul play was involved because we have a body. How can we tell if someone got an abortion or just had a miscarriage?


In a physical exam on a woman the tools used in an abortion would leave tell tale marks and there is no placenta left. In a miscarriage,the body doesn't immediately expel the placenta.
That's what the doctors told my brother when my sister in law had a miscarriage 4 years ago.

Yes, with actual people we can figure if it was a death from natural causes or if foul play was involved because we have a body. How can we tell if someone got an abortion or just had a miscarriage?
The hypothetical discussion was about life being declared at conception and whether or not a pregnant woman could be charged for intentionally abusing herself thus injuring the fetus. Abortion didn't enter into it.

In a physical exam on a woman the tools used in an abortion would leave tell tale marks and there is no placenta left. In a miscarriage,the body doesn't immediately expel the placenta.
That's what the doctors told my brother when my sister in law had a miscarriage 4 years ago.
You don't mean to tell us he actually asked, do you?

You don't mean to tell us he actually asked, do you?

LOL... NICE catch nap...