My comment was not that they were *absurd*.

It was that they are anti-human and irrational.

And THAT is not an 'opinion', but a demonstrable fact.

Your opinion is fact? O wait, i have to remember who i'm talking to.

They are anti-human because they try to coerce human beings to act in ways that are against their own nature.

What is a human's "own nature"?

They preach that sex and the wanting of sex is something 'evil' and sinful, instead of being what humans are biologically designed to do.

Just like teeth are biologically designed to puncture meat, I guess you should have no quarrels with cannibalism, because that is what teeth were "biologically designed to do". Sex is fine in the christian belief, but only under the right circumstances.

They preach subjugation for and loathing for women.

I agree. If you covet your neighbor's wife, or your friend's wife.. that's kind of messed up.

The Old Testament of the Xtians in particular is exceedingly despicable and inhuman in it's recounting of the condoning of slavery, the hatred for and ordered execution of homosexuals, the wholesale slaughter of entire populaces, infants and all, committed on specific order from that religion's 'god'.

Well gee, they must have changed the teaching content at seminary. I didn't know the Old Testament was the reason we had slaves, or hated homosexuals, or killed off populaces in war... I guess my dad and my bro will have to go through 8 years of seminary again!

All of those things you mentioned FT ARE human, they have happened in EVERY population to ever exist. The Old Testament mentions it many times.. and even God orders it. But of course, you don't see it that way... you think that just because it is MENTIONED in the bible must mean that it is being "taught"... that there is no mere historical content. And of course, you judge God, something I not dare do. Someone so supreme obviously knows more than you, so I'll let you deal with your egoism and insecurities in your own way. Just don't openly and falsely paint my beliefs in a way that fits your needs, and is not factually accurate.

It is difficult to imagine anything more anti-human than the hacking to death of innocent women and children by the thousands.

I agree, so then that means we all must not be human, considering that your example has happened in all human societies... so what are we? Actually.. being human is ALL about what you said. Sin, murder, deception, lies, hatred.. all of that. The bible mentions and includes aspects of humanity, because it DEALS WITH HUMANS... what a concept! I would say the bible is "anti-human" because it's main messages are NOT based on humanity, but based on perfection, and how things SHOULD be. it's about NOT conforming to the lowest common denominator, but shining among men.



If one will read the entire Bible, one will find tales of ignorance, murder, sexual perversions, mass insanity, bizarre laws, and even cannibalism and human sacrifice. It staggers the imagination how anyone in his right mind could read the Bible and believe that it was written by a wise, just, and loving "god". Christians have found biblical scriptures telling them to burn people at the stake, to justify slavery, to oppress and persecute others, and to kill and commit war in the name of their god. Unfortunately, there are some even today who would have us return to the teachings and laws found in the Bible.

You need to start listening to Aretha Franklin, because you have absolutely no class, no respect, and no decency. You can say you don't believe, you can say you don't "buy into it".. but the way you ridicule and insult anyone who DOES believe is just so childish, irresponsible, and immature. It is why you get such little respect from posters in here. We get it, we know you don't believe, but just as you demand that "whatever goes on in other people's bedroom's is their own business"... I guess it's different with religion. YOU are allowed to break in and rip someone to shreds on what they think and how they believe.

--------------------------------------------------------

Matthew 23: 1-12

Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.

"Everything they do is done for people to see: They make their phylacteries [a] wide and the tassels on their garments long; they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; they love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and to have people call them 'Rabbi.'

"But you are not to be called 'Rabbi,' for you have only one Master and you are all brothers. And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. Nor are you to be called 'teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Messiah. The greatest among you will be your servant. For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.

"A woman without a man is like a fish without a bycycle!"
Hahaha, I really like that one!

I guess it's different with religion. YOU are allowed to break in and rip someone to shreds on what they think and how they believe.You asked the question.

I agree. If you covet your neighbor's wife, or your friend's wife.. that's kind of messed up.

That one response, more than anything else you could have said, is a clear indication of just how ignorant and misguided your views on this matter are.

The fact that the Bible preaches subjugation for and loathing for women has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of "coveting your neighbor's wife".

It has to do with the loathing with which BibleGod views womankind.

Originally Posted by Freethinker
The Old Testament of the Xtians in particular is exceedingly despicable and inhuman in it's recounting of the condoning of slavery, the hatred for and ordered execution of homosexuals, the wholesale slaughter of entire populaces, infants and all, committed on specific order from that religion's 'god'.

Well gee, they must have changed the teaching content at seminary. I didn't know the Old Testament was the reason we had slaves, or hated homosexuals, or killed off populaces in war...

My comment was that the Old Testament condoned slavery, the hatred for and ordered execution of homosexuals, and the wholesale slaughter of entire populaces, infants and all.

I guess my dad and my bro will have to go through 8 years of seminary again!

If they have not at this late date come to the realization oh how inhuman, tyrannical and murderous the gawd that they worship is, they likely never will.

All of those things you mentioned FT ARE human, they have happened in EVERY population to ever exist.

Okay.

The Old Testament mentions it many times.. and even God orders it. But of course, you don't see it that way...

Au contraire.

The fact that your unseen supernatural deity Yahweh did order it is exactly how I do see it.

you think that just because it is MENTIONED in the bible must mean that it is being "taught"...

My comment was that the Old Testament condoned slavery, the hatred for and ordered execution of homosexuals, and the wholesale slaughter of entire populaces, infants and all. It is clearly written in the pages of the Bible.

Any time you feel like attempting to refute that fact, feel free to fucking step up and try.

And of course, you judge God, something I not dare do.

ROTFL. Of course you "dare not".

You'd have to jettison your comforatable fantasies to do so, and THAT you will never do.

Just don't openly and falsely paint my beliefs in a way that fits your needs, and is not factually accurate.

My "needs" have nothing whatsoever to do with it. Everything in the posts we're arguing about about that I have stated about the Bible is factual and accurate. You cannot refute it, so you gnash your teeth and wail -"Woe is me!".

Originally Posted by Freethinker
It is difficult to imagine anything more anti-human than the hacking to death of innocent women and children by the thousands.

I agree, so then that means we all must not be human, considering that your example has happened in all human societies... so what are we?

It depends on who the *we* in question is.

As for me, I would never, no matter what some supernatural deity commanded of me, hack an infant to death.

Those people of YOUR religionist ilk, who DID follow the (supposed) commands of their omnipotent deity, and who hacked the infants to death are, IMO, anti-human monsters.

Originally Posted by Freethinker
If one will read the entire Bible, one will find tales of ignorance, murder, sexual perversions, mass insanity, bizarre laws, and even cannibalism and human sacrifice. It staggers the imagination how anyone in his right mind could read the Bible and believe that it was written by a wise, just, and loving "god". Christians have found biblical scriptures telling them to burn people at the stake, to justify slavery, to oppress and persecute others, and to kill and commit war in the name of their god. Unfortunately, there are some even today who would have us return to the teachings and laws found in the Bible.

You need to start listening to Aretha Franklin, because you have absolutely no class, no respect, and no decency.


Maybe not.

But what I do have, pal, are the facts about the barbaric, murderous deity that you worship.

""Upon reading the Bible, we find tales of ignorance, murder, sexual perversions, mass insanity, bizarre laws, and even cannibalism and human sacrifice. It staggers the imagination how anyone in his right mind could read the Bible and believe that it was written by a "loving" god.""

"One of the most irrational of all the conventions of modern society is the one to the effect that religious opinions should be respected...That they should have this immunity is an outrage. There is nothing in religious ideas, as a class, to lift them above other ideas. On the contrary, they are dubious and often quite silly." H.L. Mencken

Yes but why?
You have to think, Jesus was going against the Temple in a time when the Temple was the law. It was part of the Kings palace.
The early Christians did not have it easy, at all. The apostles were hung on the cross, chopped up and beheaded, fed to the lions, turned into slaves...
That would have to be some really heavy guilt trip.

If you wanted an "easy answer" I'd say Christianity was farthest from easy as you could get. Quite a few of the early Christians had to go into hiding. Just to stay alive.
You're telling me, they risked their existence on a guilt trip or quick answers?

Firstly you mixed up my response about early Christians and about people who believe in religion today.

Secondly, people do crazy things. Aren't people blowing themselves up in the Middle East? Why not believe what they believe? They must be killing themselves because they "know" something! (sarcasm). There are women who refuse the remove the Burka in the US and/or Europe, so should I look up to them because they are going against the status-quo. Hell no!

Also, just because one went against something..does not make one special. Am I not "going against" what is the norm now in the US, which is Christianity? Does that make me or anyone special? Fuck no!

So your arguments only work if you want them to work for yourself.

Finally, "belief" is all crap. People believe they were anally-probed by aliens. Go into any mental home and you will see what people believe. They believe it in their "hearts" and "souls". They can say the same "oh when you know, you know", but like I always say, the human mind is an amazing organ it can make itself believe alot.

Also, if you remove the frontal lobe of the brain, then a person's their capacity for faith goes away (Scientific American a few months back). Its all in the head dude.

That one response, more than anything else you could have said, is a clear indication of just how ignorant and misguided your views on this matter are.

The fact that the Bible preaches subjugation for and loathing for women has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of "coveting your neighbor's wife".

It has to do with the loathing with which BibleGod views womankind.

Well, according to Adam and Eve, yes. I know girl power feminists might not like it, or people who just can't stand religion like you, but the Christian religion in the Old Testament said that based on the story of Adam and Eve, women would be subservient to men.

However, there are countless other times in the bible where a man and a woman should love each other, and that marriage is a union of two people, all hinting that it's not a "loathe" or "slavery" of women to men... So while you continue to use loaded terms with negative connotations (and you are FULL of them), I'll continue to tell it how it is.


My comment was that the Old Testament condoned slavery, the hatred for and ordered execution of homosexuals, and the wholesale slaughter of entire populaces, infants and all.

You are right. For example, God lead the armies of Joshua towards numerous victories in battle. He also killed the entire egyptian army in the red sea.

However, you judge a God on human terms. That is like the pawn judging the chessmaster. You are the pawn just like me, you don't know why you are here, and you don't know the secrets of the universe. Who are you to judge someone who is above and can see the entire spectrum in a bigger picture? I surely am not, and wouldn't dare. Is a human life worth another human's life if it turns them to God? I don't know, but God surely seems to use tragedies and events to wake the people up. The Lord works in mysterious ways, and maybe he does so in order weed out the doubting thomas's who need concrete, scientific proof. Maybe he has bigger schemes in place, and those who die have already served their purpose. I don't know.. but you claim that this God is a cold-blooded killer... I say in "pawn terms", you might be right.. but pawns are worth nothing, just as we are worth nothing. (in my opinion - disclaimer).


If they have not at this late date come to the realization oh how inhuman, tyrannical and murderous the gawd that they worship is, they likely never will.

Always the same song and dance. You never open your mind, and entertain the thought that there might be "proof in the pudding"...

As far as your wording and adjectives of God, see above.. you (and I) are a pawn, get over yourself. You can choose to not believe, but your obsession with bashing those who do is amazingly immature. Why don't you go and make fun of people who are on their death bed, dying of lung cancer because of the decisions they made to smoke all their lives? I think Pluto is closer to you than class is.

My comment was that the Old Testament condoned slavery, the hatred for and ordered execution of homosexuals, and the wholesale slaughter of entire populaces, infants and all. It is clearly written in the pages of the Bible.

Any time you feel like attempting to refute that fact, feel free to fucking step up and try.

I already did "fucking step up and try".. I have represented my opinions very clear, yet you constantly bash them. I don't call you names for not believing. I respect your right to not believe. As you read in my replies above, I don't refute any of that... it's not my call. Obviously, if a God can CREATE us, he knows more than us, and is probably a bit smarter than me and ****DARE I SAY IT *** smarter than you.. yes you. [sarcasm]


ROTFL. Of course you "dare not".

You'd have to jettison your comforatable fantasies to do so, and THAT you will never do.

Nope, I am a believer. Go ahead and make fun, ridicule.. get your jollies off. It really doesn't bother me. I am comfortable with my life at times, and scared at others. I'm not trying to prove anything to you, or "convert" you FT... Your mind is already made up, and would probably never believe based solely on spite. It seems that you have a very negative impression of Christianity, and I pity those who represented it to you so vile. Then again, those ARE truths... or stories to represent and symbolize a message.. and ARE written in the bible. So if something like that being written in the bible is preventing you from being a Christian.. well then I guess you will never be any of the big three religions, which you probably have no problem with.


My "needs" have nothing whatsoever to do with it. Everything in the posts we're arguing about about that I have stated about the Bible is factual and accurate. You cannot refute it, so you gnash your teeth and wail -"Woe is me!".

Woe is me? I'm NOT refuting it... you are arguing against nobody here.


It depends on who the *we* in question is.

As for me, I would never, no matter what some supernatural deity commanded of me, hack an infant to death.

Those people of YOUR religionist ilk, who DID follow the (supposed) commands of their omnipotent deity, and who hacked the infants to death are, IMO, anti-human monsters.

Yet, you live and thrive on a nation which won it's freedom due to the death of so many british soldiers and Indian men, women, and children... how can you justify that?


Maybe not.

But what I do have, pal, are the facts about the barbaric, murderous deity that you worship.

I can't help but notice your emphasis on the the term "facts". You have stated that the bible is bunk, but now they are "facts" when they have ammunition for you to use against it. You take these acts, which were normal in society back in the time, and put them into today's context. Way to go. You should go work for the New York Times.

"Upon reading the Bible, we find tales of ignorance, murder, sexual perversions, mass insanity, bizarre laws, and even cannibalism and human sacrifice. It staggers the imagination how anyone in his right mind could read the Bible and believe that it was written by a "loving" god."

A point of view.. by a pawn. Just as i have my own pawnish views. Have a good day FT.

"One of the most irrational of all the conventions of modern society is the one to the effect that religious opinions should be respected...That they should have this immunity is an outrage. There is nothing in religious ideas, as a class, to lift them above other ideas. On the contrary, they are dubious and often quite silly." H.L. Mencken

H.L. Mencken- Author/reporter, proven to have existed, but can't prove where how he came to be.

God- Creator of the universe, Knows all and sees all. Has not been scientifically proven to have existed, but has followers from all over the world.

My point? Good for Mr. Mencken... he can think what he wants. However, If my beliefs are true, he is sadly mistaken.

"One of the most irrational of all the conventions of modern society is the one to the effect that religious opinions should be respected...That they should have this immunity is an outrage. There is nothing in religious ideas, as a class, to lift them above other ideas. On the contrary, they are dubious and often quite silly." H.L. Mencken


Mencken is one of my faves!


"My Country Right or Wrong is like saying My Mother Drunk or Sober."

-Feets

H.L. Mencken- Author/reporter, proven to have existed, but can't prove where how he came to be.

God- Creator of the universe, Knows all and sees all. Has not been scientifically proven to have existed, but has followers from all over the world.

My point? Good for Mr. Mencken... he can think what he wants. However, If my beliefs are true, he is sadly mistaken.

Great point. I was raised Catholic, went to a catholic school till 8th grade. Was atlar boy (no never happened to me so don't even ask) did all the important masses etc. At one time thought seriously about being a priest (then I had sex and all that changed lol) And to this day I still love the study of religion in theory and in real history. And despite my distain for organized religion I am still too scared to call myself an athiests lol. There is a great quote in one of my favorite movies.

"I don't believe in God but I am afraid of him."

-Feets

Firstly you mixed up my response about early Christians and about people who believe in religion today.
My bad, sorry about that.
That still doesn't address my question. You may not have meant early Christians. The question I asked is still valid. It doesnt change the significance of it.

Secondly, people do crazy things. Aren't people blowing themselves up in the Middle East? Why not believe what they believe? They must be killing themselves because they "know" something! (sarcasm). There are women who refuse the remove the Burka in the US and/or Europe, so should I look up to them because they are going against the status-quo. Hell no!

Thats true, I always say, people are crazy.
You cant compare one religion with another. You simply have no idea why people do what they do.
Which means grouping religion together in one big wod is ignorant. To say the least. Neither did I mean to say, at any time, that going against the "status quo" is a reason to follow anyone.
The point was, people were going to want to kill Jesus and eventually one way or the other he knew that going into Christianity.
So there was absolutely no incentive for Jesus to do what he did or for his apostles to follow up in his work. With no established theology.
They had no cause other then peace.

Also, just because one went against something..does not make one special. Am I not "going against" what is the norm now in the US, which is Christianity? Does that make me or anyone special? Fuck no!

So your arguments only work if you want them to work for yourself.
It points out what I said above.
You're not going to risk your life or in your case, your car, for someone else?
Certainly not a stranger. That seems to be exactly what Jesus did.
Which is why I asked the question, why did he do it?
What would a guilt trip accomplish?

Finally, "belief" is all crap. People believe they were anally-probed by aliens. Go into any mental home and you will see what people believe. They believe it in their "hearts" and "souls". They can say the same "oh when you know, you know", but like I always say, the human mind is an amazing organ it can make itself believe alot.

Also, if you remove the frontal lobe of the brain, then a person's their capacity for faith goes away (Scientific American a few months back). Its all in the head dude.
Um, they lose a whole hell of alot when you remove the frontal lobe.
Kind of makes a person subservient to whatever we want them to be subservient to.
Thats not exactly a break through.
I could however act just as ignorant and tell you God said he gave each of us a piece of him. What do you know! There it is in the frontal lobe.

"The frontal lobes have been found to play a part in impulse control, judgment, language production, working memory, motor function, sexual behavior, socialization, problem solving initiation, facial movement, planning abilities, coordinating, and motivation. The frontal lobes assist in planning, coordinating, controlling, and executing behavior."

My bad, sorry about that.
That still doesn't address my question. You may not have meant early Christians. The question I asked is still valid. It doesnt change the significance of it.

Thats true, I always say, people are crazy.
You cant compare one religion with another. You simply have no idea why people do what they do.
Which means grouping religion together in one big wod is ignorant. To say the least. Neither did I mean to say, at any time, that going against the "status quo" is a reason to follow anyone.
The point was, people were going to want to kill Jesus and eventually one way or the other he knew that going into Christianity.
So there was absolutely no incentive for Jesus to do what he did or for his apostles to follow up in his work. With no established theology.
They had no cause other then peace.

It points out what I said above.
You're not going to risk your life or in your case, your car, for someone else?
Certainly not a stranger. That seems to be exactly what Jesus did.
Which is why I asked the question, why did he do it?
What would a guilt trip accomplish?

Um, they lose a whole hell of alot when you remove the frontal lobe.
Kind of makes a person subservient to whatever we want them to be subservient to.
Thats not exactly a break through.
I could however act just as ignorant and tell you God said he gave each of us a piece of him. What do you know! There it is in the frontal lobe.

"The frontal lobes have been found to play a part in impulse control, judgment, language production, working memory, motor function, sexual behavior, socialization, problem solving initiation, facial movement, planning abilities, coordinating, and motivation. The frontal lobes assist in planning, coordinating, controlling, and executing behavior."


Ok, you can look at all the above in anyway you want to and that is what you are doing. You and I have gone through this before and it is a useless debate. You want to see actions of people in other religions differently that in Christianity and that's cool for you to believe that. But, sorry to say, it is not correct. All of your arguments are based on this and your strong belief in your religion. That's ok! I'm happy for you. However to continue debating with you is useless. Sorry - I still like you though!

Sorry - I still like you though!
I like you to :D

Sorry we cant debate. I probably could use more practice on my conversational skills.

Christianity is just as guilty of terrorism as any other religion. The difference is they have the power of politics and education. A terrorist will use the means at his disposal. Suicide bombers use the tools they have and right wing conservative christians use the power of the US government. If we allowed those who owned the land to truly profit from the oil beneath it they might act a bit different.

Christianity is just as guilty of terrorism as any other religion. The difference is they have the power of politics and education. A terrorist will use the means at his disposal. Suicide bombers use the tools they have and right wing conservative christians use the power of the US government. If we allowed those who owned the land to truly profit from the oil beneath it they might act a bit different.
Christianity isnt at fault for whats going on now in the middle east.
The entire country backed Bush when he made the decision to go over there.

My atheist friends were cheering Bush on just as strongly as I was.
It wasnt until after we found no evidence of weapons of mass destruction that everyone began to point fingers.
Oh no! We made a mistake, now that we have totally screwed the pooch and fucked every single person living under Saddam's regime, we should pull out and let them deal with our mistake.
We can make it stick by blaming the Christians!
BS.


At least from what it sounds. You're trying to lay the blame entirely on Christianity?
Which is wrong.
Further more people always say how Christianity is the norm in the U.S.
Which is entirely wrong. It is the most outspoken religion in the U.S and the most heavily populated.
It is however the most ridiculed as well.
To mention in public that you're a Christian is to leave yourself wide open for ridicule.
I'm not saying Christians have it "rough"
I'm simply pointing out that it isn't as quickly accepted as you or Mex make it out to be. People arent falling over themselves to welcome Christians every where they go in the U.S.
It's quite the opposite.

Christianity isnt at fault for whats going on now in the middle east.
The entire country backed Bush when he made the decision to go over there.

My atheist friends were cheering Bush on just as strongly as I was.
It wasnt until after we found no evidence of weapons of mass destruction that everyone began to point fingers.
Oh no! We made a mistake, now that we have totally screwed the pooch and fucked every single person living under Saddam's regime, we should pull out and let them deal with our mistake.
We can make it stick by blaming the Christians!
BS.


At least from what it sounds. You're trying to lay the blame entirely on Christianity?
Which is wrong.
Further more people always say how Christianity is the norm in the U.S.
Which is entirely wrong. It is the most outspoken religion in the U.S and the most heavily populated.
It is however the most ridiculed as well.
To mention in public that you're a Christian is to leave yourself wide open for ridicule.
I'm not saying Christians have it "rough"
I'm simply pointing out that it isn't as quickly accepted as you or Mex make it out to be. People arent falling over themselves to welcome Christians every where they go in the U.S.
It's quite the opposite.


You seem to know more about what I said than I do. I don't see any place there where I blamed Christians. I mean that it has been the policy of the US to occupy as much of the Middle East area as possible. It also amazes me how quickly this country can change its mind about a country. First we loved Iraqi when they fought in Afgan. Then we hated them. Then we loved Iran when they hated Iraqi. Now we hate Iran all over again. We have to realize that our actions may mean one thing to us as a nation but a totally different thing to another country.

I should have made myself more clear. I am bothered by how the Christian right as become so powerful politically. That scares me far more than any terrorist attact ever could. The courts being loaded with unbending christians. The reversal of Rowe v Wade. The slow chipping away of our rights as a nation. That scares me daily! I only get scared of a terrorist attack when my uncle George is on TV trying to scare the nation!

Well this is one "atheist" that has never cheered Bush on!!!

I like you to :D

Sorry we cant debate. I probably could use more practice on my conversational skills.


nahhh. You conversational skills are fine. Its just that you "believe" something and you choose to see things under that belief and probably I have the same issue on the other side. I am not saying that I am smarter or more open-minded than you. So if one person "believes" the sky is red and the other "believes" it is purple, its hard to "debate"

The entire country backed Bush when he made the decision to go over there [Iraq].

This is patently false. You're either hopelessly uninformed or willfully ignorant of the facts.

This is patently false. You're either hopelessly uninformed or willfully ignorant of the facts.

it would be "false" if you are talking about 100% of the country.

But relatively speaking, it's true. Pretty much the entire country was for going over to rid any threat.

it would be "false" if you are talking about 100% of the country.

But relatively speaking, it's true. Pretty much the entire country was for going over to rid any threat.

The country was behind going to Afgan. But not even close on Iraqi. Go back and check the news polls around that time. We have lumped the whole idea of 9/11 in with so much of what Bush has done that we think it is all okay. That is one reason why it has become his favorite word to use!

Did I say Iraq? I said getting rid of any threat...

Did I say Iraq? I said getting rid of any threat...

No. You didn't.

You were talking about Iraq, and Saddam, and his non-existent WMD. There were massive protests, not just in America but worldwide, against Bush's decision to go into Iraq. Between January 3 and April 12, 2003, 36 million people across the globe took part in almost 3,000 protests against the Iraq war.

Did I say Iraq? I said getting rid of any threat...

But I was under the impression that we were talking about Iraqi and the so called WMD. Go back and follow the thread.

It just amazes me that this country is in Iraqi when there are places like North Korea, Iran, Pakistan(sp), Syria, and know we are seeing anger and anti-American feelings in Central and South America. Why is it that anyone that dares to disagree with us is on the list?

-Feets