An army specialist has claimed he is being denied promotion because of his atheist beliefs. If this is true it is wrong. A person's religious beliefs or lack thereof should not be a basis for promotion.

...According to the lawsuit, Hall was counseled by his platoon sergeant after being informed that his promotion was blocked. He says the sergeant explained that Hall would be "unable to put aside his personal convictions and pray with his troops" and would have trouble bonding with them if promoted to a leadership position..".

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080306/ap_on_re_us/military_religion_lawsuit

that's nothing...

females have been getting promotions for years not based on their work performance, but because they will perform sexual favors for the person who is in charge of the promotions...

Um. Statistics, please.

Sing a-long (http://www.hymnsite.com/lyrics/umh575.sht) with the choir...

that's nothing...

females have been getting promotions for years not based on their work performance, but because they will perform sexual favors for the person who is in charge of the promotions... Try telling the guy that did not get the promotion it was nothing! And females have been doing the same job as men and getting less pay for a long time.

An army specialist has claimed he is being denied promotion because of his atheist beliefs. If this is true it is wrong. A person's religious beliefs or lack thereof should not be a basis for promotion.

...According to the lawsuit, Hall was counseled by his platoon sergeant after being informed that his promotion was blocked. He says the sergeant explained that Hall would be "unable to put aside his personal convictions and pray with his troops" and would have trouble bonding with them if promoted to a leadership position..".

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080306/ap_on_re_us/military_religion_lawsuit That's horrible. Thank goodness for Mikey Weinstein and the Miliatry Religious freedom foundation!

An army specialist has claimed he is being denied promotion because of his atheist beliefs. If this is true it is wrong. A person's religious beliefs or lack thereof should not be a basis for promotion.

...According to the lawsuit, Hall was counseled by his platoon sergeant after being informed that his promotion was blocked. He says the sergeant explained that Hall would be "unable to put aside his personal convictions and pray with his troops" and would have trouble bonding with them if promoted to a leadership position..".

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080306/ap_on_re_us/military_religion_lawsuit
there's got to be more to it than that, and i'll withhold comment until both sides have their say.

I'm sure if there wasn't good reason to destroy his career before, there is now! Watch the Army's best minds come up with everything under the sun to keep this young man from becoming a sergeant.

Wonder what he did when he enlisted and came to the part of his oath where he had to say SO HELP ME GOD? Maybe he coughed thru that sentence, eh?

[QUOTE=Frogger]An army specialist has claimed he is being denied promotion because of his atheist beliefs. If this is true it is wrong. A person's religious beliefs or lack thereof should not be a basis for promotion.

...According to the lawsuit, Hall was counseled by his platoon sergeant after being informed that his promotion was blocked. He says the sergeant explained that Hall would be "unable to put aside his personal convictions and pray with his troops" and would have trouble bonding with them if promoted to a leadership position..".


A thought just occured to me.
What if Kids growing up get the notion it's alright to question the
teacher in grade school about certain historical or even cultural
stuff,they hear,outside of school.
Like maybe a parent listens to Air America at home,and a kid gets
the idea'r that our current President is nothin but a liar and
corrupt and Christmas is a made-up Holiday,and doesn't need to
be respected,let alone honored.
I heard on Dennis Miller's talk radio station,his guest Rick Perry,
the Gov. of Texas and they were conversing about the Boy Scouts.
And how in Philly,the city council closed a great Bldg. that
was used as a Boy Scout Headquarter.And that Philadelphis is now
taking on epic proportion of Violence and homicide,due to gangs.
Just when the Boy Scouts are needed most.
And that maybe a true Atheist,couldn't be a Boy Scout,on account
of the Virtues a Scout has to pledge towards.

I'm sure if there wasn't good reason to destroy his career before, there is now! Watch the Army's best minds come up with everything under the sun to keep this young man from becoming a sergeant.

The problem i'm really starting to have with you is yer constant
Pessimism.You're not pleasant to read or converse.
Of course,Rush Limbaugh Insists,that all Liberals really want is everone
else to be miserable,like they.
I coulda said [ them ].

And that Philadelphis is now
taking on epic proportion of Violence and homicide,due to gangs.
Just when the Boy Scouts are needed most.
.

American boy scouts actively tackle Gang related Homicides and violence? If that wasn't a joke, how exactly is that handled? They all go round in pairs round Harlem knocking door to door asking them to politely put down the crack and 45's? (and yes i naturally feigned towards black areas as a central point of gun crime and drug related violence)

I think our lil cubs (UK equivalent) would shit a brick if faced with that kind of task.

On the topic subject, I can understand their point of view if the majority of soldiers were of a Religious persuasion (and i presume they have stuck with Christianity on this) then having a proud atheist essentially disbanding their religious practices before a shoot out might upset them and cause tension amidst the group.

But then on the other (more realistic) side of the coin, I doubt he would be pushing such beliefs onto the soldiers and therefore it wouldn't make a difference.

[QUOTE=Lokideviluk]American boy scouts actively tackle Gang related Homicides and violence? If that wasn't a joke, how exactly is that handled? They all go round in pairs round Harlem knocking door to door asking them to politely put down the crack and 45's? (and yes i naturally feigned towards black areas as a central point of gun crime and drug related violence)


When you limit {stymie} the available options for kids in their formative
years,you are in effect driving them right into the activity that
corrupts.Therefore the need for midnight basketball on weekends.
At least kids won't be thinkin in terms of flashy cars and gettin
high and bein pimps.

Wonder what he did when he enlisted and came to the part of his oath where he had to say SO HELP ME GOD? Maybe he coughed thru that sentence, eh?
I personally didn't recite it.

Wonder what he did when he enlisted and came to the part of his oath where he had to say SO HELP ME GOD? Maybe he coughed thru that sentence, eh?

So what if he did? He's done his duty, he's due a promotion. If the 'chain of command' did support such a situation, then they're all guilty at some level for discrimination. Seems pretty plain & simple.

[quote=Frogger]An army specialist has claimed he is being denied promotion because of his atheist beliefs. If this is true it is wrong. A person's religious beliefs or lack thereof should not be a basis for promotion.

...According to the lawsuit, Hall was counseled by his platoon sergeant after being informed that his promotion was blocked. He says the sergeant explained that Hall would be "unable to put aside his personal convictions and pray with his troops" and would have trouble bonding with them if promoted to a leadership position..".


A thought just occured to me.
What if Kids growing up get the notion it's alright to question the
teacher in grade school about certain historical or even cultural
stuff,they hear,outside of school.
Like maybe a parent listens to Air America at home,and a kid gets
the idea'r that our current President is nothin but a liar and
corrupt and Christmas is a made-up Holiday,and doesn't need to
be respected,let alone honored.
I heard on Dennis Miller's talk radio station,his guest Rick Perry,
the Gov. of Texas and they were conversing about the Boy Scouts.
And how in Philly,the city council closed a great Bldg. that
was used as a Boy Scout Headquarter.And that Philadelphis is now
taking on epic proportion of Violence and homicide,due to gangs.
Just when the Boy Scouts are needed most.
And that maybe a true Atheist,couldn't be a Boy Scout,on account
of the Virtues a Scout has to pledge towards. And then there are the dittoheads that believe everything that Rush Limbaugh and Dennis Miller tell them. What about their poor children?

Wonder what he did when he enlisted and came to the part of his oath where he had to say SO HELP ME GOD? Maybe he coughed thru that sentence, eh?

You are not required to say "so help me god" during your oath. Maybe he just didnt say it.

[quote=Foolsworth] And then there are the dittoheads that believe everything that Rush Limbaugh and Dennis Miller tell them. What about their poor children?

There's a huge difference between Grown-up entertainers like
Limbaugh and Miller and school teachers.
School teachers are paid to Teach.Not entertain,even in the slightest.
You DO comprehend that difference,I hope.
BTW...talk about leaps.
Leapfrogging from how a " Dittohead " gathers information and
passes on Parenting to a child,is an example of Liberal malfeasance.
Liberals Love to Indoctrinate.
Conservatives love to Teach.
Now,Go learnt yerself somethin worthwhile.

... Maybe he just didnt say it.
you mean "Swear (or Affirm)"?

you mean "Swear (or Affirm)"?

You can substitute swear with affirm, and you are not required to say so help me god.

You can substitute swear with affirm, and you are not required to say so help me god.
actually (as i recall), you don't have to say anything, it's the one you sign that counts.

actually (as i recall), you don't have to say anything, it's the one you sign that counts.

Well yeah, you have to sign the contract. But you are still required to take the oath of enlistment.

I said it once right before I signed my contract when I first joined, and I said it when I reenlisted a few weeks ago. By the way, I still said swear, and so help me god, because I'm not an atheist, lol.

Well yeah, you have to sign the contract. But you are still required to take the oath of enlistment.

I said it once right before I signed my contract when I first joined, and I said it when I reenlisted a few weeks ago. By the way, I still said swear, and so help me god, because I'm not an atheist, lol.
sure you have to stand there, but it's the written form they bring to your court-martial if you screw up...not that i would know anything about that...3 times.

Bush the Son has been pushing Christian Fundamentalism since he entered office. The Air Force Academy is only one example. His supreme court appointments are another. Does this really suprise anyone?

I'm pretty sure Bush has nothing to do with religious discrimination in the military.

Dark Fantasy

Darn I was begining to respect your opinion.

Do you really think that discrimination in the military hasn't been around FAR longer than Bush? I'm certain it doesn't need his help at all.

Methinks the Army Specialist in question was simply passed over for promotion because he was an inferior candidate for positions of leadership, and when he was passed over he cried foul in the manner that would get him the most attention.

There are plenty of stupid folks in the Army, and no small amount of weak-to-average leaders. But I have serious doubts that any chain of command would discriminate against this shit-bag because he's an atheist.
The climate of 'political correctness', Consideration of Others (CO2, a Bill Clinton cultural sensitivity initiative), and 'anxiety over offending anyone for fear of grievances' is just too strong, even in a war-time Army.

Eh. I'm just not buying it.
I know the Army too well to take this guy's story at face value.

Dark Fantasy

Darn I was begining to respect your opinion.

actually, she was completely right... prove how Bush is responsible for any type of religious discrimination in the military...

*chirp... chirp...

Methinks the Army Specialist in question was simply passed over for promotion because he was an inferior candidate for positions of leadership, and when he was passed over he cried foul in the manner that would get him the most attention.
Methinks you didn't RTFA.

Methinks you didn't RTFA.

RTFA? Forgive me if I'm being naive.

Anyways, the Army is WAY to worried about PC these days for this to be anything but an isolated inccident at most.

EDIT: Oh, read the friggin article... got it.

Methinks you didn't RTFA.
I did read it, and a careful inspection of the article reveals that all the information was gathered from the soldier and his attorney, while the Army refused to comment.

www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org (http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org)

Methinks you didn't RTFA.

Incorrrect. I did read the article, and with great interest.
I found no corrorborating testimony for the disgruntled former Army employee's story at all, and I found that the poor fellow had fallen under the wing of:
a. A frivolously-litigious organization with an agenda
and
b. An 'attorney' with a history of such frivolous lawsuits

The guy was an MP. The Army, both active and reserve components, is critically short of all Military Police MOS's, and has a serious retention problem in that specialty. (No doubt because of the hi OPTEMPO and frequent deployments.)

In other words, if the silly bastard was worth half a shit, he would have been promoted many times over by now.
He's a jerk-off who got upset because he couldn't pass muster with the US Army, (and in a career field with ridiculously-easy promotion opportunities at that), so he retaliated with a lawsuit designed only to make press for himself and his anti-Army/pro-religious-freedom puppet-masters!!

I stand by my opinion.

Incorrrect. I did read the article, and with great interest.
I found no corrorborating testimony for the disgruntled former Army employee's story at all, and I found that the poor fellow had fallen under the wing of:
a. A frivolously-litigious organization with an agenda
and
b. An 'attorney' with a history of such frivolous lawsuits

The guy was an MP. The Army, both active and reserve components, is critically short of all Military Police MOS's, and has a serious retention problem in that specialty. (No doubt because of the hi OPTEMPO and frequent deployments.)

In other words, if the silly bastard was worth half a shit, he would have been promoted many times over by now.
He's a jerk-off who got upset because he couldn't pass muster with the US Army, (and in a career field with ridiculously-easy promotion opportunities at that), so he retaliated with a lawsuit designed only to make press for himself and his anti-Army/pro-religious-freedom puppet-masters!!

I stand by my opinion. Even if it is wrong!

Even if it is wrong!
I really would like to hear how you could possibly know for sure that Sparky is wrong.

Silly girl.

It's because acaliforniatouch5 has more experience in the ways and cultures of the US Army.

Clearly he is much more on top of things than a gent like myself, who served 26 years on Active Duty, and who continues to work for the Army as a support contractor/aviator.

Yep, that's gotta be it. He's just more in tune with what's going with the Army guys than me. After all, I only keep in touch with (on average) fifteen to twenty five currently-active Army warfighters, via email, letters, and care packages, at any given moment in time.

So I guess I'll just have to defer to his experience in these matters.

I know because I read a lot. And if you go to Mikey Weinstein's website you can read stuff for yourself. www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org (http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org) He is not anti-freedom of religion or anti-military. It's not a true statement and I called Sparky on it. He can believe what he wants but I know different. I don't have to serve in the Army to be able to know it. To think that he knows everything that goes on because he keeps in touch with other is obviously not the case. He is just slandering a great person/organization in my opinion.

My goodness.

I said that the attorney was pro-religious freedom, not anti.
Go back and read my posting, beyond the first sentence, anyway.

Be careful sir, with that knee jerk reaction. You could dislocate something.

Let's separate your devotion to this particular lawyer and his organization, and what I know about the US Army, OK?
I'll concede that I'm not a big fan of lawsuit-mills.
So I'll give you that much.

Here's a true story... I have a friend who used to be an atheist and was having trouble getting promoted. He later abandoned his atheistic beliefs and joined the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, becoming a staunch Pastafarian. Almost immediately after he found religion, he was promoted.

Coincidence? Maybe, maybe not.

Here's a true story... I have a friend who used to be an atheist and was having trouble getting promoted. He later abandoned his atheistic beliefs and joined the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, becoming and staunch Pastafarian. Almost immediately after he found religion, he was promoted.

Coincidence? Maybe, maybe not.

Haha, FSM for the win.

I really would like to hear how you could possibly know for sure that Sparky is wrong.

You know what I'd like to hear, DF?

I would really like to hear why you think that Sparky could --in any way imaginable-- "know" for sure that -- ""if the silly bastard was worth half a shit, he would have been promoted many times over by now"".

I would really like to hear why you think that Sparky could --in any way imaginable-- "know" for sure that -- "He's a jerk-off".

I would really like to hear why you think that Sparky could --in any way imaginable-- "know" for sure that -- ""he retaliated with a lawsuit designed only to make press for himself"".

When did I say he knew for sure?

Freethinker.
(IF that really is your name.)

Please separate your personal contempt for me from your admittedly sparse knowledge of the ways and the mores of the US Army.

Please separate your personal contempt for me from your need to stand on the throat of this teenaged girl (and in the process, crow and caw your hateful socialist political agenda).

You are once again embarrassing yourself, and your offspring, by the way.

Stand down, sir.
At risk of embarrassing the Freethinker family name. Stand down.

Freethinker.
(IF that really is your name.)

Please separate your personal contempt for me from your admittedly sparse knowledge of the ways and the mores of the US Army.

Sparky2. (IF that really is your name.)

Please separate your head from your anus. I am well aware that you possess some knowledge of the ways and the mores of the US Army.............but that does NOT mean that you know for certain that--

""if the silly bastard was worth half a shit, he would have been promoted many times over by now"".

or that....

"He's a jerk-off".

or that....

""he retaliated with a lawsuit designed only to make press for himself"".


Stand down, sir.
At risk of embarrassing the Freethinker family name. Stand down.

Fuck off, sir. At risk of embarrassing yourself with your infantile claims of --"he's a jerk-off"-- about a person you have virtually zero personal knowledge of. Fuck off.

You know what I'd like to hear, DF?

I would really like to hear why you think that Sparky could --in any way imaginable-- "know" for sure that -- ""if the silly bastard was worth half a shit, he would have been promoted many times over by now"".

I would really like to hear why you think that Sparky could --in any way imaginable-- "know" for sure that -- "He's a jerk-off".

I would really like to hear why you think that Sparky could --in any way imaginable-- "know" for sure that -- ""he retaliated with a lawsuit designed only to make press for himself"".

You're a curious fellow, Freethinker.
And the deeper you get in your cups, the curiouser you get.

To your points:
"if the silly bastard was worth half a shit, he would have been promoted many times over by now"
I stand by this. The US Army Military Police Corps is critically short of personnel, at all grades and components. Had the fellow measured-up in any meaningful fashion, he would have been promoted far beyond his current rank by now.
This I know for a fact.

"he retaliated with a lawsuit designed only to make press for himself"
I stand by this also, though I must concede that it is only based upon certain assumptions, and my personal contempt for those in our society who clutter the courts with frivolous lawsuits.

"He's a jerk-off".
I have to admit, you've bested me in this case. I have no evidence to support this assertion. The collective body of all the other evidence and testimony seems to point in this direction, but it fair to say that none of us have personally witnessed the young man engaged in frequent and compulsive bouts of masturbation.
I defer to your expertise in these matters then, sir.

The score, therefore:
1/1/1. A win, a loss, and a draw.

(Oh hey, I just noticed something. I just completed an entire posting without resorting to ugly retorts and profane vulgarities. Do I get any points for that?)

If you read Mikey Weinstein's book you would be more sympathetic to his cause. At least one would hope.

I am a frequent visitor to the Campus used book store, sir.
I'll pick that up and read it as soon as I can.

I am a frequent visitor to the Campus used book store, sir.
I'll pick that up and read it as soon as I can. Or you might even try your local library if you don't want to purchase it.

Good idea.
I am needing a good book on foliar fungicides anyway, and I have a feeling that the local campus used book store won't have it.

I was scouting the rice fields on my property the other day, and found evidence of blast & sheath blight. I'm told that the fungicide is indicated, but I just don't have enough experience in such things.

I'll let you know how the reading goes.

I was scouting the rice fields on my property the other day, and found evidence of blast & sheath blight. I'm told that the fungicide is indicated, but I just don't have enough experience in such things.

The "other day" eh?

I'll let you know how the reading goes.

Yeah........when you get to the part about there being flooded rice (much less needing to treat for sheath blight) somewhere in the month of March, let me know.

Hey, I didn't claim to be an expert.
I'm just going by what evidence my neighbor claimed to see on the stubble and remnants from last year's harvest. We were out stomping around with the tall boots on the other day, and checking on the frog population in the wetlands that joins our properties. Chris mentioned the sheath blight business, and he told me that's why I didn't get much yield last season.

And no, of course I haven't flooded yet. That's gonna happen right around late May or so. A small portion of the lands stays perpetually inundated, and so the frogs seem to have enough standing water to survive in. No ducks yet, though I've seen quite a few pairing up over on the distant neighbor's catfish pond.

My close neighbor's going full bore with the zero grade method over on his land, but then again his resources are a bit more plentiful than mine.
He's a more serious player, though I am admittedly just a gentleman farmer.
I do have a day job, after all.

Fuck off, sir. At risk of embarrassing yourself with your infantile claims of --"he's a jerk-off"-- about a person you have virtually zero personal knowledge of. Fuck off.
No buttons being pushed here I see..