Should We Train And Arm Some Of Our Teachers The Way We Do Some Of Our Pilots? (http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/should_we_train_and_arm_some_of_our_teachers_the_w ay_we_do_some_of_our_pilo/)

A few months ago my answer to that would have been an emphatic “NO!”
It was my belief that being armed and responding to a shooting in progress is the job of law enforcement, men and women who are trained and qualified to engage someone who is armed and shooting with intent to kill. I couldn’t justify arming teachers.

Then came Virginia Tech. And my thought processes toward the issue began to change. Reluctantly I began to think about what could have been if a teacher, who had been properly trained, had been on the scene when the shooting started. And then, this latest in horror. Another school shooting. More dead and wounded, traumatized kids.

The police arrived in about two minutes. By then the damage was done.
I realize that the thought of putting their hands on a weapon is anathema to many, many of our liberal academics. BUT - there is most likely a pool of military vets out there - or former seving police officers who went on to get their teaching degree - would could be taught the skills required to carry - and use if necessary - a handgun.

We arm some of our pilots, many of whom are ex-military. A teacher with a military background would be no less capable than a pilot and perhaps even more so. Pilots don’t often train in ground combat. That’s not their job.

The tricky part here is that the bad guys don’t know which pilots are armed and which aren’t. That in itself can create an air of caution, a less confident hijacker – or killer.

As far as the argument that teachers aren’t properly trained – any police agency can qualify them in police style shooting, complete with combat ranges and tactical training. Make them meet the same standards and certifications as the police.

Remember – when people first go to the police academy they aren’t qualified to shoot on a police level, either. But they get trained to do so.
We have to do something, and no amount of hand wringing or posting “Gun Free Zone” signs or crying about gun control or whining that it’s just not right to bring a gun to a school will get it done.

We’ve set our kids up as victims. And that needs to stop.
Recently an armed man burst into a church with intent to kill some people. Why? Because he could. They were there en masse and, he presumed, unarmed and waiting to die at his hands.

He presumed wrong. A woman was there, armed and qualified and willing to engage the shooter. She did so. And he failed in his attempt to bring death, pain and misery to innocent people and their families.

There is a lesson there that we would be remiss not to learn from.

ITA, LF. Whenever this subject comes up, it always reminds me of the gunman who stormed a small-town Texas Luby's Cafeteria one afternoon with a vow to murder everyone there. Except for that one patron who happened to be carrying a gun and shot him dead, no doubt he would've carried out his plan and alot of innocent people would've died.

Perhaps it's time to reinstate the old Sergeant at Arms position in any facility where hundreds of people might gather.

As chief law enforcement officer of the Senate, the Sergeant at Arms is charged with maintaining security in the Capitol and all Senate buildings, as well as protection of the members themselves. The Sergeant at Arms serves as the executive officer of the Senate for enforcement of all rules of the Committee on Rules and Administration regulating the Senate Wing of the Capitol and the Senate Office Buildings and has responsibility for and immediate supervision of the Senate floor, chamber and galleries. The Sergeant at Arms is authorized to arrest and detain any person violating Senate rules, including the President of the United States.

If it's good enough for DC, it's good enough for the rest of us!

maybe, maybe not...but no one could argue against a few hours of threat assessment training.

I totally agree with this... I plan on being a college professor, and I plan on owning guns... So they can call me up in 10 years or so. :D

Campus security, are they armed ?

If so, maybe they should be increased, and better trained.

Metal detectors on school entrances, maybe a swipe card to get in first.

Putting more weapons into the school/campus simply starts a mini arms race.

Campus security, are they armed ?

If so, maybe they should be increased, and better trained.

Metal detectors on school entrances, maybe a swipe card to get in first.

Putting more weapons into the school/campus simply starts a mini arms race.
The campus security at my school are not armed. At a college, having metal detectors at entrances is simply unreasonable. There would have to be dozens of metal detectors, and even then it would only be practical to put them at the entrances of the actual buildings, so someone with a gun could easily just shoot everyone who's outside.

DF's right, Paul. I don't know of any school campuses which have either armed guards or metal detectors. There's no doubt that if somebody wants to carry out a mass shooting, they can find someplace to do it. Usually the saddest thing is that once they reach that point, they'll kill themselves when it's over. Not much anybody can do when it comes to dealing with a crazed gunman... except take him down before he gets a chance to do the deed.

At my school, the entrances to campuses are very open, There really aren't any actual "entrances" like gates or whatever. You'd have to have a metal detector manned with a security guard every few feet around the whole campus to keep weapons out.

EDIT: And of course even then, a shooter could just stand in the parking lot and shoot people getting out of their cars.

Yes, I realise that schools and colleges are built in an open plan type basis, which with hindsight makes them difficult to protect.

Maybe the simplest and most cost effective way of doing so is to arm teachers, which is sad, but necessary.

Question: Do schools have an emergency alarm, not a fire alarm, something else, to warn of danger?

Question: Do schools have an emergency alarm, not a fire alarm, something else, to warn of danger?
I don't know. I suppose it depends on the school. I'm signed up for email and text message alerts that the school sends out in emergency situations. In a situation like a shooting I suppose the security staff would go around to every building to alert people... We have fire alarms too, of course, but obviously they are individual for every building, so I think any sort of emergency alarm would only be able to be set off in one building at a time anyways.

I'm not sure if the unarmed guys on campus are merely "security guards", but most large campuses have their own police force who are just like any other cops on the street. Armed and with full arrest powers. At least at the University of Wisconsin here in Milwaukee. They've been armed at least for the last 25+ years.

My school has a campus police that's armed...that's probably the best way to do it. I'm sure as hell not trusting security guards or professors with firearms. Metal detectors and swipe cards are too easy to get around to be worth implementing.

Yes, I realise that schools and colleges are built in an open plan type basis, which with hindsight makes them difficult to protect.

Maybe the simplest and most cost effective way of doing so is to arm teachers, which is sad, but necessary.

Question: Do schools have an emergency alarm, not a fire alarm, something else, to warn of danger?

Like LiquidFork said... it wouldn't be necessary to arm EVERY teacher, but it couldn't hurt to let it be well known that there are SOME teachers on every campus who are trained and armed to protect their students.

DF's right, Paul. I don't know of any school campuses which have either armed guards or metal detectors.

I'm not sure that's correct. I think most schools of any size have armed security on campus.

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/462054-campus-security-officers-armed.html

I'm not sure if the unarmed guys on campus are merely "security guards", but most large campuses have their own police force who are just like any other cops on the street. Armed and with full arrest powers. At least at the University of Wisconsin here in Milwaukee. They've been armed at least for the last 25+ years.

Same here at the University of Arkansas. They are the University Police, fully armed.

Just a thought.
How about every school having reinforced doors, a siren, something like the old nuclear sirens of the 60s, and a main switch in the Administration office, where it can be set off, warning all teachers to lock all doors.

Security officers having a mobile number in their fones which when pressed, raises the alarm.

I dont think this would cost too much, and the feds could pay for it, costing the campus's nothing, just a thought on how to keep American kids safe.

Since I go to a community college, I guess it's a little different. My campus does have about 15,000 students, but they're all commuter students. I suppose that's why we don't have an armed police force.

And Paul - Good ideas. :)

Alot of the people are assuming i was only implying this to college compasses. It is true the last few horrible shootings where on a college setting,but not all that long ago it was small high schools in the Midwest and south that were suffering. It isn't plausible to have a police force for a small high school.

Alot of security guards in hospitals, apartment complexes,warehouses,chemical plants and other places are just there as a deterrent. If it is common knowledge a few teachers in schools are trained and armed,it would also serve as a deterant. If smaller schools adopt this policy a potential shooter may think twice. if it prevents a single school shooting I would say it is worth it.


In smaller school systems they may have a few security guards who are nothing more than paid hall monitors. They are seldom armed or trained. any type security guard in a small school system would be the same i am sure.
Also in a smaller school setting it wouldn't be effective to have a few armed security guards not trained very well running around in the halls during the mass confusing time of an incident. A small police force like on larger college compasses would be effective,but again this isn't a plausible situation to have in a small school system

LF - High schools may not be able to afford police forces, but they're much easier to secure physically with metal detectors, etc.

Alot of the people are assuming i was only implying this to college compasses. It is true the last few horrible shootings where on a college setting,but not all that long ago it was small high schools in the Midwest and south that were suffering. It isn't plausible to have a police force for a small high school.

Alot of security guards in hospitals, apartment complexes,warehouses,chemical plants and other places are just there as a deterrent. If it is common knowledge a few teachers in schools are trained and armed,it would also serve as a deterant. If smaller schools adopt this policy a potential shooter may think twice. if it prevents a single school shooting I would say it is worth it.


In smaller school systems they may have a few security guards who are nothing more than paid hall monitors. They are seldom armed or trained. any type security guard in a small school system would be the same i am sure.
Also in a smaller school setting it wouldn't be effective to have a few armed security guards not trained very well running around in the halls during the mass confusing time of an incident. A small police force like on larger college compasses would be effective,but again this isn't a plausible situation to have in a small school system

In Dallas high schools, there is usually a regular uniformed police officer on duty at all times. They also use metal detectors. But I can still see the benefit of having at least one or two teachers armed and trained. After all, one cop can't be everywhere.

When it comes to small towns, I guess it's more a case of 'it will never happen here' -- until it does. Then it's too late. Only takes a few seconds for someone on a mission to do alot of damage, once they gain access to a building.

I never heard any details about the guy who shot up the school in Chicago recently. Anybody else know his story?

I fear we are in a copycat scenario at present.

Just a thought.
How about every school having reinforced doors, a siren, something like the old nuclear sirens of the 60s, and a main switch in the Administration office, where it can be set off, warning all teachers to lock all doors.

That's getting a bit much. Some people want the government to guarantee their complete safety no matter where they are and what they're doing. There's a bit of risk in life. The likelihood of getting killed by a random nutjob at a college are so completely miniscule as to be not worth mentioning. Besides, I wouldn't want to go to school in a bunker anyway.

That's getting a bit much. Some people want the government to guarantee their complete safety no matter where they are and what they're doing. There's a bit of risk in life. The likelihood of getting killed by a random nutjob at a college are so completely miniscule as to be not worth mentioning. Besides, I wouldn't want to go to school in a bunker anyway.How is it a bit much. Show me an Administration that wouldnt pay out a couple of billion of upgrading security in Americas schools,and I'll show you an ex-Administration.

Students have every right to demand total protection at school, as for miniscule yes your right, on the grand scheme it is, tho last week I believe there were four shooting at schools, in Texas, Tenessee, California and somewhere else, they are the 'in place' for wee fuckers to take out their frustration before ending themselves.

Metal detectors? Damn. As if high school didn't feel like enough of a prison already. I recommend razer wire and guard towers, with a few dogs for effect.

Most high schools in urban areas do have metal detectors, Nap. And high schools everywhere bring in drug dogs at least a couple times a year to sniff around... Good thing they don't do that at college. :D

How is it a bit much. Show me an Administration that wouldnt pay out a couple of billion of upgrading security in Americas schools,and I'll show you an ex-Administration.

Students have every right to demand total protection at school, as for miniscule yes your right, on the grand scheme it is, tho last week I believe there were four shooting at schools, in Texas, Tenessee, California and somewhere else, they are the 'in place' for wee fuckers to take out their frustration before ending themselves.
You're right Paul. The students can demand all the security measures they want on campus. They just have to be willing to pay for these measures through tuition hikes.

It isn't plausible to have a police force for a small high school.

In smaller school systems they may have a few security guards who are nothing more than paid hall monitors. They are seldom armed or trained. any type security guard in a small school system would be the same i am sure.

I don't see why not.

We have a cop in each of the schools here, that stay at the main entrance *all the others locked so no one can come in* and stay each day, every day. In primary, intermediate, middle and high school. The schools are close to each other so in case of any emergency, there could be 4 to 5 cops on the scene in a matter of minutes.

How is it a bit much. Show me an Administration that wouldnt pay out a couple of billion of upgrading security in Americas schools,and I'll show you an ex-Administration.

Don't get me wrong, you're probably correct. I just think it's completely ridiculous.

Students have every right to demand total protection at school, as for miniscule yes your right, on the grand scheme it is, tho last week I believe there were four shooting at schools, in Texas, Tenessee, California and somewhere else, they are the 'in place' for wee fuckers to take out their frustration before ending themselves.

They can demand it all they want - it can't ever be guaranteed. And personally, I don't care to live my life like that anyway. Schools would look like prisons. Actually, probably worse than prisons. Referencing another thread, maybe we could set up a minefield around the school.

Somehow I managed to go through 21 years of education and never saw so much as a knife in school, and now we need metal detectors and armed guards wandering the hallways? I don't think so.

Somehow I managed to go through 21 years of education and never saw so much as a knife in school, and now we need metal detectors and armed guards wandering the hallways? I don't think so.
I've seen knives in every school I've been to... In fact, I was suspended for having a knife at school in 4th grade... (well it was just a tiny swiss army knife, but it sounds impressive anyways).

Just a thought.
How about every school having reinforced doors, a siren, something like the old nuclear sirens of the 60s, and a main switch in the Administration office, where it can be set off, warning all teachers to lock all doors.
Duck...and cover! http://youtube.com/watch?v=C0K_LZDXp0I
I dont think this would cost too much, and the feds could pay for it
Wrong! Where do you think this money is going to come from, the magical security fairy? You can pay out the ass and be 99.99999% safe, but A) you're never going to be completely and totally safe, and B) you can keep yourself safe from car accidents by staying at home all day, but would you? The "danger" from random lunatics is highly overblown. You have a higher chance of being struck by lightning than being shot by a crazy person at school. How much money and freedom is it worth to make yourself 0.0005% safer? I don't think it's worth anything.
costing the campus's nothing, just a thought on how to keep American kids safe.
How about we accept that by living we accept the risk that there are situations where we could die, and not try to mitigate the risks insane people pose to us by passing insane laws?

mitigate the risks insane people pose to us by passing insane laws?

Hah! I am amused.

I've seen knives in every school I've been to... In fact, I was suspended for having a knife at school in 4th grade... (well it was just a tiny swiss army knife, but it sounds impressive anyways).

In my day I don't think they would have cared. Of course I can also remember when they let me brother go through airport security with a Swiss army knife. Which was back when you could go through security without an airplane ticket.