How many people that considered themselves atheists have had bad experiences with church or "Christians?"

Are you trying to start a flame?

not, at all, i'm just curious. but i may step in too deep, huh?

Well I'm not an atheist but I did leave the Catholic chruch, didn't seem right. Using fear to get folks to believe, if there is a God then why does a church need to use fear to get followers.

What I mean about fear is do this, don't do that, except this, don't except that, etc... or else you'll go to he**.

Plus I don't like the fact that humans put themselfs above other living things. Why would a human go to heaven but not a pet dog?

i am a devout believe in christianity, and am a confirmed methodist, but even i disagree at times with the interepretation that the church uses of the bible. churches use fear because that's enough to motivate most human beings: it is intimidation. the problem with using fear in a practice requiring faith is that the two are opposites, and the average human being cannot cope with opposites being used for the same purpose.

and, didn't you see that movie? All Dogs Go to Heaven?

I too am focused on christianity while also being a confirmed catholic. Yes, there are things in the bible that contradict each other...I believe that sometimes it's that way so that those who believe in it and read it can decide for themselves what's right and what isn't. It's my belief and I know that many of you have others related to it...or something totally different and thats fine too.

I think your poll is too limited in scope. I'm a Christian and I've had lots of bad experiences with Christians. Apparently my particular denomination is far too liberal and doesn't interpret the Bible correctly. The intolerant Christians don't limit themselves to bothering athiests.

well, it depends on what your definition of a "bad experience" is. if i've ever had a bad experience with a religion it has been judaism. before you start thinking i am anti-semitic, you should know that my dad is jewish, (or at least i think he's jewish, he had a bar mitzfah, but in any case when i asked him about whether or not he believed in god he didn't really seem to care.) also i live in a really heavily ultra-orthodox jewish neighborhood, and a lot of my friends growing up were orthodox jews. well my friends loved me but some of their parents weren't as fond of me. there was one occasion where a group of my friends were going into one of their houses to get something, and when i tried to follow them in her mother stopped me at the door. she wouldn't let me in because i obviously wasn't jewish enough, though at the time i considered myself jewish.

however, this is strange considering that a roman-catholic friend of mine who i had gotten in a fight with wouldn't let me on her porch when i came over to apologize. something about me being jewish. the same girl later cursed me out for being an atheist.

so yeah, you could say i've had some bad experiences, not exactly with a religion itself but with its followers.

Originally posted by MajiPirate
and, didn't you see that movie? All Dogs Go to Heaven? [/B]

I forgot about this, what Bible did the dogs read?:D

Originally posted by LionelHutz
I think your poll is too limited in scope. I'm a Christian and I've had lots of bad experiences with Christians. Apparently my particular denomination is far too liberal and doesn't interpret the Bible correctly. The intolerant Christians don't limit themselves to bothering athiests.

I agree, but what I'm really looking for is any kind of relationship between someone who had a bad experience at church or with Christians, and as a result, lost faith in, or became angry at God, etc.

I'm just looking for a corelation, that's all, that's why it is limited in it's focus.

I couldn't really take your poll...

I've never been into a church in my life...but I'm not an atheist either...

I used to hate god..think he was a total jerk...

And by what I've heard about churches and the people that go...the priests like little boys..

they all want you to give them money...

and it seems everyones going to hell but them..

Not for me...:rolleyes:

Originally posted by mad dog
Why would a human go to heaven but not a pet dog?

Are you serious?! Pets don't have souls, if you would have stayed in church long enough you would have heard/read about it...

How do you know dogs don't have souls? Because somebody in church said so? Seems to me it's written somewhere " ... we're all GOD's creatures ... " or words to that effect, right? Humans may not have exclusive rights to that spirit, we just think we do.

So seriously...how many pets are in hell then....?

Don't humans have a choice...because god breathed a spirit in them...? Making them unique and seperate from the animals...

He merely 'created' animals...

UGA First off I was raised in a Catholic family, church EVERY sunday. Secound I left the Catholic religion for many reasons and this is one of them. Sense when did God say humans are above any of his other creations?

What I believe in now makes alot more sense then Christianity (to me). Es hit the nail on the head with "Humans think they have exclusive rights", of course my believe's are my opinions, and that does not mean I am correct.

Imp There is no hell

Religion cause wars

How can there be a heaven..with no hell..?

Is like a yeng..without a yang...

For everything there is an opposite and equal....in order for there to be a balance...


Human are superior to animals..our brains are more advanced...and again when god breathed life into man...it was part of him...part of his spirit...

He didn't so that to animals...

We have the choice do do wrong or right...good or bad...animals lack that sense...

Originally posted by Imp
How can there be a heaven..with no hell..?

when you meet God ask him

Is like a yeng..without a yang...

ying and yang is a balance, not good verses bad, not evil verses good, it is a balance of everything.

For everything there is an opposite and equal....in order for there to be a balance...

And you can prove this how?


Human are superior to animals..our brains are more advanced...and again when god breathed life into man...it was part of him...part of his spirit...

Humans are smarter then animals(well atleast some :D ) not superior. Who breathed life into the animals?

He didn't so that to animals...

Then was ther another God that created animals?

We have the choice do do wrong or right...good or bad...animals lack that sense...

Wrong did you ever see the look on a pets face when it knows it has done wrong? Humans set a law that shows what is right or wrong. How do we prove our law is correct?

Originally posted by mad dog
when you meet God ask him

I don't think god likes me...he's probably not going to want me hanging around his place to much...



ying and yang is a balance, not good verses bad, not evil verses good, it is a balance of everything.



And you can prove this how?

light..darkness..
moon..sun..

if good..or love... in people exist..then evil...hate... does too...

if heaven exists..and is a beautiful serene place...
then hell must too...a horrible wretched place....

Like murphy's law...for everything action..there is an opposite and equal re action...


Humans are smarter then animals(well atleast some :D ) not superior. Who breathed life into the animals?



Then was ther another God that created animals?

Supposably...god said 'poof' and there was the earth..and galaxy..and animals...it just came into being..their heart beat and they breathed..and reproduced...but there was no special spirit blown into them to make them alive...

man was created from the dust...and life breathed into him...and dust to life with a spirit....



Wrong did you ever see the look on a pets face when it knows it has done wrong? Humans set a law that shows what is right or wrong. How do we prove our law is correct?

No I haven't...I am not an animal person....I am allergic to cats and scared of dogs...I just now got goldfish about 1/2 a year ago...probably not what you mean...;)

I have tended horses..but I don't see where you mean they know if they did something wrong or not...they only follow commands...

As far as law..I take you mean what each person sees as right or wrong...and that varies to each person...what I think is wrong you may not...and visa versa...

Overall...murder..rape...kiddie abuse is wrong..period...human nature tells us that...they ability to know that..and to speak and advance our selfs like we have shows we are unique and seperate from the animals...

Originally posted by Imp
Like murphy's law...for everything action..there is an opposite and equal re action...
Murphy's Law? LMAO. You are kidding, right?

Murphy's Law: Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong.

Newton's Third Law of Motion: Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

:D Thanks...

I knew it was wrong when I wrote it...

For the world of me I couldn't remember what it was....

Yeah Newton's..that's the one...;)

Imp, I give you a big "What the hell?".

I have tended horses..but I don't see where you mean they know if they did something wrong or not...they only follow commands...
Horses were used because they were big, rideable and smart. Then they were bred with mules to make them even smarter. A mule knows when not to do something.

Overall...murder..rape...kiddie abuse is wrong..period...human nature tells us that...they ability to know that..and to speak and advance our selfs like we have shows we are unique and seperate from the animals...
Murder is wrong, and animals know that too. If they kill anything, it is for food or defense. The only animal that I know that kills for fun, is a human. Other than chimpanzees, another proof how closely related we are.

Originally posted by Imp
I don't think god likes me...he's probably not going to want me hanging around his place to much...

I don't think there is a question of like or dislike, humans were his creation.





light..darkness..
moon..sun..

if good..or love... in people exist..then evil...hate... does too...

if heaven exists..and is a beautiful serene place...
then hell must too...a horrible wretched place....

Light and darkness are just that nothing more, a balance.

I can not deny bad and good, but does this prove the devil? One person's image of what is horrible may not seem so bad to another.

I never said heaven is a beautifull place, it may be just like earth, only the dead could answer that. Who is to say death is not just another leap into another type of life.

Like murphy's law...for everything action..there is an opposite and equal re action...

Murphy's law :confused: Borg allready straighten this out, but I still knew what you ment. Check out quantem mechanics, nothing makes sense. So for every action there is a reaction is something humans came up with.




Supposably...god said 'poof' and there was the earth..and galaxy..and animals...it just came into being..their heart beat and they breathed..and reproduced...but there was no special spirit blown into them to make them alive...

man was created from the dust...and life breathed into him...and dust to life with a spirit....

That comes from the Bible written by man, not my beliefs.





No I haven't...I am not an animal person....I am allergic to cats and scared of dogs...I just now got goldfish about 1/2 a year ago...probably not what you mean...;)

I have tended horses..but I don't see where you mean they know if they did something wrong or not...they only follow commands...

Just do a search on elephants and how the feel about things that happen or even dolphins.

As far as law..I take you mean what each person sees as right or wrong...and that varies to each person...what I think is wrong you may not...and visa versa...

Overall...murder..rape...kiddie abuse is wrong..period...human nature tells us that...they ability to know that..and to speak and advance our selfs like we have shows we are unique and seperate from the animals...

There was a time when humans didn't act that much different then animals, killing young, etc... It all came down to what was good for the groups survival. We(humans) have changed with time, this does not make us more important or any better then animals.

Originally posted by mad dog
Murphy's law :confused: Borg allready straighten this out, but I still knew what you ment. Check out quantem mechanics, nothing makes sense. So for every action there is a reaction is something humans came up with.
There are two completely different branches of physics: classical physics, which deals with stuff that we can see, for example the motion of billiard balls, and good old quantum physics, which deals with subatomic particles. Interestingly enough, laws under classical physics tend to not hold true under quantum physics. Quantum physics is a WHOLE new ballgame that even our brightest minds (Stephen Hawking) don't even understand.

Ok..so you know if you haven't figured it out...which I think you have mad dog...but I'm still searching for answers of what it's all about...I hold nothing as a truth yet...I haven't read the bible..I've heard things here and there...from alot of different religions..

I've heard different outlooks on life..and death..heaven and hell...etc..

I really like your posts..makes me look at things a little bit different then I have been...a new light so to speak...I'll reply to your post later...I have alot to do in real life first...but you give me something to think on...

You may have posted your beliefs somewhere here..but I haven't found them yet..if you have could you link them...if not..could you give me a run down of how you see it...Thanks in advance...

Originally posted by Blibblob
Imp, I give you a big "What the hell?".

The only animal that I know that kills for fun, is a human. Other than chimpanzees, another proof how closely related we are.

That's what I mean where the difference is between humans and animals...we have something extra then they do....
I'm sorry..I have to go right now..alot to do...I'll be back later and try to clear up what I mean...


And..I'm not buying into the ape theory...you can be a monkey's uncle if you wish...

Originally posted by Imp
So seriously...how many pets are in hell then....?

Don't humans have a choice...because god breathed a spirit in them...? Making them unique and seperate from the animals...

He merely 'created' animals...

just like he "merely created" women?

Originally posted by MajiPirate
just like he "merely created" women?

She was cut from the same rug...she had the same everything..*well almost* ..that he did...spirit too...the same spirit god put in man...is pasted into all the rest of the human race...

Originally posted by BorgHunter
There are two completely different branches of physics: classical physics, which deals with stuff that we can see, for example the motion of billiard balls, and good old quantum physics, which deals with subatomic particles. Interestingly enough, laws under classical physics tend to not hold true under quantum physics. Quantum physics is a WHOLE new ballgame that even our brightest minds (Stephen Hawking) don't even understand.

There was a show on last night I only caught some of it. They were talking about time travel it was pretty interesting stuff. One of the scientist said when (not if) humans accomplish time travel it will destroy many beliefs about physics. Like I said I didn't see the whole show but what I did see was interesting.

Imp;

I am a praticing Druid, in away it is alot like a Native American Indian. There are differences, but if you know what the Indian was then you'll have a rough idea of how I feel.

Originally posted by mad dog
UGA First off I was raised in a Catholic family, church EVERY sunday. Secound I left the Catholic religion for many reasons and this is one of them. Sense when did God say humans are above any of his other creations?

What I believe in now makes alot more sense then Christianity (to me). Es hit the nail on the head with "Humans think they have exclusive rights", of course my believe's are my opinions, and that does not mean I am correct.

Imp There is no hell

I don't know what kind of church they told you you were going to but it deffinitely wasn't a catholic one. Humans are above all other creations, it is in the Bible hun. Animals do not go to heaven or hell they just die. The only time I ever thought dogs went to heaven was when I was about 5. But I've grown up now and am having to face reality...you should too.

Originally posted by es347fan
How do you know dogs don't have souls? Because somebody in church said so? Seems to me it's written somewhere " ... we're all GOD's creatures ... " or words to that effect, right? Humans may not have exclusive rights to that spirit, we just think we do.

That's correct that we all are God's creations but that does not mean we all go to heaven. It is in the Bible, and what the Bible says goes.

Originally posted by ugababe117
That's correct that we all are God's creations but that does not mean we all go to heaven. It is in the Bible, and what the Bible says goes.
The Bible has been translated countless times by numerous people, I hardly think that anything in that book can be taken literally. At the very least it is extremely unreliable, at worst it is a work of absolute fiction. After all, it was originally written by humans as well.

yeah, i wouldn't be too sure about the bible. "what the bible says goes" and "if it's in the bible it must be true" arent' very convincing to me.

Originally posted by sputnik
yeah, i wouldn't be too sure about the bible. "what the bible says goes" and "if it's in the bible it must be true" arent' very convincing to me.


Who said I was trying to convince you...if you don't want to believe that's fine with me...I'm not going to be the one burning in hell.

Originally posted by ugababe117
Who said I was trying to convince you...if you don't want to believe that's fine with me...I'm not going to be the one burning in hell.
For all we know, I won't be either, and neither will sputnik.

Originally posted by BorgHunter
For all we know, I won't be either, and neither will sputnik.


If you say so................lol

Originally posted by ugababe117
I don't know what kind of church they told you you were going to but it deffinitely wasn't a catholic one.

read my post I left the Catholic church, they did teach that humans are more important then other things(one of the reasons I left)

Humans are above all other creations, it is in the Bible hun. Animals do not go to heaven or hell they just die.

Say's the Bible which was written by humans for humans, does not mean it is Gods thought. Why would God give life to ALL things and then sh** on half, or more? If you believe this then a retard would be less then a normal person so I quess he/she wouldn't make the cut either.

The only time I ever thought dogs went to heaven was when I was about 5. But I've grown up now and am having to face reality...you should too.

Reality hmmmmmm who's reality are we talking about your believe's, my believes, or God? You don't know what God wants, needs, does, etc.. anymore then I do. My reality makes me believe all living things have a place, and are important in there own way. No one living thing is anymore important then the next. I do relize we are smarter, but this does not make us more important. Take a turtle, their are some alive that were alive during the civil war. If he/she(turtle) could talk I wonder what they would have to say about us nasty humans, dumping waste, polluting, changing the environment without concern, wars, etc.... How important do we look for the survival of the planet?

Originally posted by ugababe117
That's correct that we all are God's creations but that does not mean we all go to heaven. It is in the Bible, and what the Bible says goes.

Show me where the Bible is total truth?

Originally posted by ugababe117
Who said I was trying to convince you...if you don't want to believe that's fine with me...I'm not going to be the one burning in hell.

Wow now you are able to pass judgement, "let those among us without sin, cast the first stone"

As Borg said there is noway in our day and age to know what the real meaning of the Bible was. It has gone from hand to hand and been interpreted so many times who(?) knows the true meaning?

Besides all of this I thought a person had to except Jesus not a book written by humans?

While you are at it, show me real solid, unarguable, proof that Jesus did exist and was the son of God.

Originally posted by mad dog
Wow now you are able to pass judgement, "let those among us without sin, cast the first stone"
Don't forget "Judge not, that you be not judged." (Matthew 7:1)

Originally posted by ugababe117
Who said I was trying to convince you...if you don't want to believe that's fine with me...I'm not going to be the one burning in hell.

No one will be burning in hell since it doesn't exist after you die. Hell exists on earth, right along with heaven, while we're alive. It all stops when we die. People just can't deal with that, so instead they decide to believe there's a God and an after-life because it helps them cope with their fear of death.

IMO

Anyone who uses the excuse well its in the bible has not read it and has just beleived everything anyone ever told them about religion without doing any checking for themselves. Most of the stories in the bible have been stolen from older pagan religions, almost all the dates like Christmas, Easter are the same dates as the major celebrations in the pagan religions.

Which are not found in the Bible to ever to have been observed

Originally posted by ugababe117
That's correct that we all are God's creations but that does not mean we all go to heaven. It is in the Bible, and what the Bible says goes.

Soooo, you've read the bible front to back, uga?

Animals don’t have pity or remorse, therefore they are inferior to us. A wild animal will maul and kill without any sympathy whatsoever; such viciousness isn’t worthy of heaven.

Animals have no compassion for me, so I have none for them.

Mopo

Are you trying to say humans don't maul, kill and have remorse. Take a good look at the old Christians(or any group that was in charge) and how they tortured, killed, etc... Their are animals that do show feelings look at wolves, dolphins, wild dogs, mother bears, the list goes on and on. Why would an animal show feelings towards a human after all we are the ones that have sh** on them first. Take that Gorilla, a few years back that saved that young kid when he fell in the cage. Animals to show emotion if you stop and take the time to see it. I would even go out on a limb and say I have seen far more humans that are moralless then animals.

...my best friend is. She says that according to the bible, heaven will be filled with the people and things we love. Therefore, she thinks her pets will be there, too. Along with donuts and chocolate, I guess. :)

Originally posted by texy one
...my best friend is. She says that according to the bible, heaven will be filled with the people and things we love. Therefore, she thinks her pets will be there, too. Along with donuts and chocolate, I guess. :)

But not, I assume, the people she loves that aren't Christian?

Good question LionelHutz, after all it says someone(thing?) has to except Jesus. That's it I'm giving zoo's the Bible, after all there are Gorrilas that know sign language and can understand certain things. :D

Originally posted by LionelHutz
But not, I assume, the people she loves that aren't Christian?

Right - I won't be there. But she prays every day that I'll see the light before that time comes.

Too bad she can't get you a free pass along with her pets and donuts.

Originally posted by mad dog
Mopo
Their are animals that do show feelings look at wolves, dolphins, wild dogs, mother bears, the list goes on and on. Why would an animal show feelings towards a human after all we are the ones that have sh** on them first.
Wolves, wild dogs, and bears serve no purpose other than to cause pain and suffering to innocent people. When has any of these animals HELPED anyone? They’re all cold-hearted and remorseless. They’re only mission in life is to hurt and kill. In other words, we’d be much better off without them.

mopo, what do you mean by serve purpose? you're getting into the meaning of life here, and i doubt any of us knows what our purpose is, so how could you know what the purpose of the dogs and bears and wolves are?
as far as i know thier purpose is to live, like our purpose is to live.
if we're going by your line of thought, then i could say that the purpose of humans is to cause pain and suffering for innocent cows, pigs, birds, fish, and all the animals that we have harmed through our greed and carelessness.

the other animals on earth would be a lot better off without us humans.

Mopo is an idiot, ignore his pointless and illogical ramblings is possibly the best thing to do :D.

When has any of these animals HELPED anyone?
OFTEN DUMBASS. Dolphins have been known to COUNTLESS times help drowning people, to save them from sharks, etc. If a baby's mother dies, often another mother will take the place. That happens very often, lions are known to do that, wolves, bears, apes.

In other words, we’d be much better off without them.
You're probably only here to stir up trouble, it isn't often that I see somebody so blind and stupid. But I'll still give you these two words regardles... FUCK YOU!

Originally posted by Blibblob
Mopo is an idiot, ignore his pointless and illogical ramblings is possibly the best thing to do :D.

When has any of these animals HELPED anyone?
OFTEN DUMBASS. Dolphins have been known to COUNTLESS times help drowning people, to save them from sharks, etc. If a baby's mother dies, often another mother will take the place. That happens very often, lions are known to do that, wolves, bears, apes.

In other words, we’d be much better off without them.
You're probably only here to stir up trouble, it isn't often that I see somebody so blind and stupid. But I'll still give you these two words regardles... FUCK YOU! LMAO Blob......i couldnt agree more with your idea's about Mop boys intent. And i think your two words are all the wisdom Mop boy needs.

Originally posted by Mopoloton
Wolves, wild dogs, and bears serve no purpose other than to cause pain and suffering to innocent people. When has any of these animals HELPED anyone? They’re all cold-hearted and remorseless. They’re only mission in life is to hurt and kill. In other words, we’d be much better off without them.
LOL, the things I hear sometimes out of your ignorant mouth are just so hilarious. Do you know that without some animals others would take over? And if we get rid of all animals except us...oops, there goes the Earth's ecosystem, and there we go with it.

Originally posted by LionelHutz
Too bad she can't get you a free pass along with her pets and donuts.

:) LOL! No kidding!

Mopo

Well you have hit a low, what is so important about you or anyother human? What have humans done to help improve the earth or anything for that matter? If you are seriously using that logic then humans should go WAY before animals. We have done nothing but destroy sense we have been on this planet.

I'll answer your question about wolves, if it weren't for them then the elk and deer populations would get out of control. They also keep coyotes etc... from over stepping there bounds. Please tell me you are just pulling my chain, no one can be this ignorant.

You claim you are Christian and believe in the Bible? Then you turn around and say destroy the animals, when infact the Bible tells to protect the animals. Lets also not forget Noah and the Ark, why would God want to save 2 of EVERYTHING? I do believe I just caught you in a twist of faith :)

Originally posted by mad dog
Sense when did God say humans are above any of his other creations?

Mad dog, in Genesis, it says plainly that man was created in part to rule over the other created beings (animals). According to Genesis, it was Adam that named the animals because God told him to do so.

I don't know about animals going to heaven or hell though, scripture doesn't mention anything about it directly, it just says that humans were the only creatures that God breathed life into.

I hope everyone had a great Christmas, or holiday whatever you like to call it. Good to talk to you all again.

Twallace

Thanks for your answer, but I think you need to read my question better/again {Sense when did "GOD" say humans are above any of his other creations?}. I never asked what a book written by humans said, I want to know Gods answer??? :) sorry trick question for some. If humans are the only thing that God breathed life into then why are there other living things? Animals may not be as smart as humans(some :) ) but they still show emotion.

Well, I understand what you were saying, but you know what my view of the Bible is. I consider it God's spoken word to humanity. I know that that is what makes us different.

I guess I did misunderstand in part what you were saying. I don't disagree that animals have emotions either, I'm just saying that according to the Bible, man is different on some level.

Genesis also says that man was made "in the image of God" or made in "His likeness." But I think that you could argue that part of God's nature is in all of creation, from the other animals to the trees, and oceans, and whatever else.

Twallace

I respect your point of view and understand it. I have a question; man is made in the image of God.........which man do we go by, asian, black, white, indian, aborigine, eskimo, etc....?

God is the creater so atleast something, whether small or great is in everything.

Originally posted by texy one
No one will be burning in hell since it doesn't exist after you die. Hell exists on earth, right along with heaven, while we're alive. It all stops when we die. People just can't deal with that, so instead they decide to believe there's a God and an after-life because it helps them cope with their fear of death.

IMO

Well you can have fun burning in Hell because I know I won't.

"Well you can have fun burning in Hell because I know I won't."

yeah? how do you KNOW? has "god" been talking to you lately like he "talks" to pat roberston?

if i was you, i wouldn't be so quick to condemn people to hell if i didn't have the power to send them there.

Originally posted by ugababe117
Well you can have fun burning in Hell because I know I won't.
Such arrogance. I reserve the quotes in my signature for people such as you.

If we are allready dead how can we burn in hell?

You know what I’d like more than anything else in the world? I’d like to take all these animal-lovers, Sputnik, Blibblob, HaVoK, and especially mad dog, put them all on a plane, and parachute them all down into the middle of the Amazon jungle. Then they would all find out just how “gentle” and “caring” these wild animals really are. If any of them made it out alive (fat chance), I guarantee they would have a completely different perspective of animals.

Mad dog, I don’t know about you, but I don’t need any help from wolves in keeping the elk and deer population under control. The moment I see a deer enter my yard I’m knocking over furniture running to my rifle. Also, you are ENTIRELY wrong about the bible never saying we are superior to animals. Throughout the entire old-testament animals are sacrificed by holy men. In fact, in order to be saved in those days you had to cut up a bull as part of the ritual. Obviously God sees us as being superior to animals.

You people want to lower yourselves to the level of filthy, viscous beasts go right ahead, but don’t expect me to join you. Go back to fucking your cows and sheep and stay away from me! Sick bastards!

You forgot me, Mopo. ;)

Carnivorous animals are not "gentle" or "caring" in the wild. They do what they can to eat, and hey, humans make a goooood dinner for a hungry jaguar. However, domesticated carnivores and mostly any herbivore are gentle. Perhaps not caring, until the animal has lived among humans for a while, but surely not aggressive unless it feels threatened. But with a dog, living in a house with a human, you can see, perhaps love is not the right term to describe it, but certainly loyalty, much as a wolf would look at the alpha male in the pack. Mostly anyone's dog will defend its master. They also are excited and, I daresay happy to see Master come home. I use dogs here as an example, because their "emotions" are on their proverbial sleeve, but cats also exhibit this behavior. Cats are different, however, in that they are not pack animals but rather independent, so their motives for being nice to Master is "Hey, if I rub his legs he pets me! He also sometimes gives me food! I'm gonna do this more often!"

If you don't believe me, Mopo, then get a dog and see how it gets attached to you. You will get attached to it, as well. I was quite upset when my cat died of cancer a few months ago. Like it or not, animals exhibit emotion, maybe not exactly like we do, but it's there.

Btw, don't but too much faith in a book written by many men then translated from language to language.

mopo, and you think humans are any better? we're just animals too.

we're vicious towards each other and other animals. and unlike other animals, we pollute the earth we all have to live on.'

"Then they would all find out just how “gentle” and “caring” these wild animals really are."
"The moment I see a deer enter my yard I’m knocking over furniture running to my rifle."

ohh, mopo, i'm sorry, i see you are definitely an incredibly gentle and caring animal.

i'm wondering why i'm even wasting my time on you.

Originally posted by Mopoloton
You know what I’d like more than anything else in the world? I’d like to take all these animal-lovers, Sputnik, Blibblob, HaVoK, and especially mad dog, put them all on a plane, and parachute them all down into the middle of the Amazon jungle. Then they would all find out just how “gentle” and “caring” these wild animals really are. If any of them made it out alive (fat chance), I guarantee they would have a completely different perspective of animals.

Mopo your the one who said you could knock out a bear???? So If we have to go, your going with us, to be our protecter{that is just too damn funny :D } I live in the adirondack moutains so I do see my fair share of critters, I have also always loved the forest and have spent many hours out in the woods. In other words get a f**king clue.!!!

Mad dog, I don’t know about you, but I don’t need any help from wolves in keeping the elk and deer population under control. The moment I see a deer enter my yard I’m knocking over furniture running to my rifle.

I hope for you sake you are only killing animals during the proper time of year{during the proper hunting season} You must be dumber then a box of rocks if you can't see how everything needs to interact in nature. In other words get a clue!!!

Also, you are ENTIRELY wrong about the bible never saying we are superior to animals. Throughout the entire old-testament animals are sacrificed by holy men. In fact, in order to be saved in those days you had to cut up a bull as part of the ritual. Obviously God sees us as being superior to animals.

I never said we aren't smarter then animals. Maybe you need to read the Bible again because it says we are to take care of the animals. I'm not saying we can't eat them etc... but it is wrong for us to kill just because. Why in heck would God have Noah build an arc for animals if he didn't give to sh**s. In other words get a clue!!!

You people want to lower yourselves to the level of filthy, viscous beasts go right ahead, but don’t expect me to join you.

Wow that is just plain retarded, I suppose our wonderfull citys with their more then helpfull crack houses, and gangs are awsome. Humans are worse then most animals, when is the last time you saw bambi go up to a 10 year old and offer them crack? When was the last time you saw thumper go up to a 10 year old and kidnap, abuse, and then kill them? Once again get a clue!!!

Go back to fucking your cows and sheep and stay away from me! Sick bastards! :D

I wouldn't be caught screwing any of your family :D

Originally posted by sputnik
"Well you can have fun burning in Hell because I know I won't."

yeah? how do you KNOW? has "god" been talking to you lately like he "talks" to pat roberston?

if i was you, i wouldn't be so quick to condemn people to hell if i didn't have the power to send them there.

If I was you, I would think before I so quickly spoke...I NEVER condemned anybody to hell...nice try though.

Originally posted by BorgHunter
Such arrogance. I reserve the quotes in my signature for people such as you.

ok?????????

Originally posted by ugababe117
ok?????????
Specifically, "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians, Your Christians are so unlike your Christ" --Mahatma Gandhi

Originally posted by BorgHunter
Specifically, "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians, Your Christians are so unlike your Christ" --Mahatma Gandhi

Aparently you know NOTHING about the Bible. Let me explain...NO ONE CAN BE LIKE GOD!!! Do you understand?! NO ONE! No one can even come close to being like him! You don't know anything about this topic therefore you should not be talking.

Originally posted by ugababe117
Aparently you know NOTHING about the Bible. Let me explain...NO ONE CAN BE LIKE GOD!!! Do you understand?! NO ONE! No one can even come close to being like him! You don't know anything about this topic therefore you should not be talking.
Oh hell no. You calling ME ignorant? That is like the pot calling the kettle black, made of metal, and a container used to heat things in. Maybe you should grow a brain and/or THINK about what Gandhi was trying to say. (Here comes a rant...those who are offended by strong language are advised against reading it.)

YOU Fundie Xians are who Gandhi was talking about. YOU! You claim to be such a fucking good Christian yet you go off and yell at people about how they're going to Hell. You are arrogant and a fucking know-it-all, both things Jesus Christ was NOT. You epitomize all that is wrong with Christianity today. Most Christians are inherently good people, but you and your 5% fundie minority fuck with Christianity and the Bible, suiting it to your needs and ignoring parts of it you don't like. Have you ever heard this: "Judge not, lest ye be judged"? That is from your Bible, your Holy book, your religion's version of the Constitution! Have you even read the fucking thing?! I would bet my ass you haven't, you just sit in chruch every Sunday with all the other good fundie Xian sheeple and listen to the pastor blab on and you believe every fucking word of it without even daring to even THINK about it, because THINKING is Satanic! Because if you THINK you might actually question certain parts of the Bible like most people actually do, you might not take the Bible so damned literally in places when you blatantly IGNORE other parts when it damned well pleases you! YOU are what is wrong with Christianity today, you fucked with the religion and ruined an otherwise okay religion.

You make me sick.

Nicely said.

Borg

Now tell us how you "really" feel try not to hold back this time, let it out, cry if you need to, we'll understand :D :D

Originally posted by BorgHunter
Oh hell no. You calling ME ignorant? That is like the pot calling the kettle black, made of metal, and a container used to heat things in. Maybe you should grow a brain and/or THINK about what Gandhi was trying to say. (Here comes a rant...those who are offended by strong language are advised against reading it.)

YOU Fundie Xians are who Gandhi was talking about. YOU! You claim to be such a fucking good Christian yet you go off and yell at people about how they're going to Hell. You are arrogant and a fucking know-it-all, both things Jesus Christ was NOT. You epitomize all that is wrong with Christianity today. Most Christians are inherently good people, but you and your 5% fundie minority fuck with Christianity and the Bible, suiting it to your needs and ignoring parts of it you don't like. Have you ever heard this: "Judge not, lest ye be judged"? That is from your Bible, your Holy book, your religion's version of the Constitution! Have you even read the fucking thing?! I would bet my ass you haven't, you just sit in chruch every Sunday with all the other good fundie Xian sheeple and listen to the pastor blab on and you believe every fucking word of it without even daring to even THINK about it, because THINKING is Satanic! Because if you THINK you might actually question certain parts of the Bible like most people actually do, you might not take the Bible so damned literally in places when you blatantly IGNORE other parts when it damned well pleases you! YOU are what is wrong with Christianity today, you fucked with the religion and ruined an otherwise okay religion.

You make me sick.

Even though you tried really hard to describe me, you were way off. It's okay though, I expected you'd get really mad when you realized I was right. Just to let you know...I have read the Bible. I'm what's wrong with Christianity?! Telling people how it is, is NOT wrong. You need to grow up and think about what you're saying before you open your mouth just to be proven wrong once again.

You're 15 years old?!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol don't talk to me anymore, i've heard enough of your childish nagging.

Originally posted by ugababe117
You're 15 years old?!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol don't talk to me anymore, i've heard enough of your childish nagging.
Can't handle a 15-year-old atheist who knows more about your own religion than you do? Again, whatever happened to "Judge not, lest ye be judged"?

Btw, feel free to put me on your Ignore list.

wow, borg's only a year older than i am. all the time i was thinking you're like, 30 when you're really 15. awesome.

Originally posted by BorgHunter
Can't handle a 15-year-old atheist who knows more about your own religion than you do? Again, whatever happened to "Judge not, lest ye be judged"?

Btw, feel free to put me on your Ignore list.

Trust me hun, I already tried and it won't let me.

Originally posted by ugababe117
Aparently you know NOTHING about the Bible. Let me explain...NO ONE CAN BE LIKE GOD!!! Do you understand?! NO ONE! No one can even come close to being like him! You don't know anything about this topic therefore you should not be talking.

In a previous post you said you KNEW you weren't going to go to hell.

If no one can be like God and only God can send someone to hell, how do you know you aren't going there?

Originally posted by Vilepagan
In a previous post you said you KNEW you weren't going to go to hell.

If no one can be like God and only God can send someone to hell, how do you know you aren't going there? Its something you wouldnt have a clue to. Its called "faith". If you dont have it, there's no way you can be taught.

Ugababe- What possible reason would you have for condemning people to hell? Are you God? Do you understand what God wants from each of us? Has he appeared in a burning bush telling you all of His wonderful secrets? I assume the answer is no.

If your denomination of christianity teaches you to go out and try to beat someone over the head with this "fire and brimstone" stuff, maybe you need to take a serious look at those who are teaching you. NO ONE wants to be told they are going to hell. Even if they dont believe in the same concept of hell as you do.

I am a christian just as you claim to be. If someone wants to talk religion with me, then i am perfectly happy and confident enough in my beliefs to talk with them about the glory of God. If they are not willing at this point in their lives to talk with me about it, then fine.

I get heated sometimes when i read posts where someone belittles Jesus. But its a free country for the most part, and its their God-given right to express their opinions and feelings even though we may not like the opinions. If it gets to be too much, you can always just "ignore" the people who offend you.

Originally posted by HaVoK
Its something you wouldnt have a clue to. Its called "faith". If you dont have it, there's no way you can be taught.

Now HaVok, there you go with that "wouldn't have a clue" stuff again. I'm hurt. ;-)

The rest of your post contained some very wise words to Ugababe on the subject of "faith" however.

Believe it or not HaVok, I'm perfectly capable of understanding, and even respecting "faith", when it's presented in a respectable way. My question to Ugababe was not meant to denigrate her, but to point out that when she says she "knows" something based on her faith, what she really means is that she "believes" something to be true.

It is a curious thing that "faith" has been responsible both for the creation of the most beautiful works of art and music; and the perpetration of some of the most horrible atrocities in history. I think that fact says more about us than it says about "faith".

I have no animosity towards christianity or those who practice it. The Bible contains some wonderful ideas, and in my opinion the 23rd Psalm is one of the most beautiful pieces of poetry ever written. I do however hold in the utmost contempt, those who would take such a wonderful collection of ideas and use it to justify hatred, or the persecution of those they disagree with.

Originally posted by Vilepagan
In a previous post you said you KNEW you weren't going to go to hell.

If no one can be like God and only God can send someone to hell, how do you know you aren't going there?

I know because I have been saved.

Originally posted by HaVoK
Its something you wouldnt have a clue to. Its called "faith". If you dont have it, there's no way you can be taught.

Ugababe- What possible reason would you have for condemning people to hell? Are you God? Do you understand what God wants from each of us? Has he appeared in a burning bush telling you all of His wonderful secrets? I assume the answer is no.

If your denomination of christianity teaches you to go out and try to beat someone over the head with this "fire and brimstone" stuff, maybe you need to take a serious look at those who are teaching you. NO ONE wants to be told they are going to hell. Even if they dont believe in the same concept of hell as you do.

I am a christian just as you claim to be. If someone wants to talk religion with me, then i am perfectly happy and confident enough in my beliefs to talk with them about the glory of God. If they are not willing at this point in their lives to talk with me about it, then fine.

I get heated sometimes when i read posts where someone belittles Jesus. But its a free country for the most part, and its their God-given right to express their opinions and feelings even though we may not like the opinions. If it gets to be too much, you can always just "ignore" the people who offend you.

People like you completely baffle me. I read one sentence of your stupidity and refused to read the rest. I CANNOT CONDEMN ANYONE TO HELL, why is that so hard to understand. I have been saved since I was 7 years old, been in church every Sunday with some exceptions...I know what I'm talking about.

Originally posted by ugababe117
I know because I have been saved.

So, what you are saying is that you know you aren't going to hell because someone told that you weren't going to hell because you have been "saved". Which once again still leaves the ultimate decision in God's hands.

Or maybe you meant that God himself told you that you weren't going to hell?

Or maybe you meant that....well to be honest I haven't a clue what you meant because you are either unwilling or unable to articulate your opinion on the subject.

One last thing. You previously insisted that someone's opinion was worthless because they were only 15 years old, yet in your response to HaVok you state matter-of-factly that you knew you were "saved' at the tender age of 7. I'm afraid I can't accept that opinion because you were obviously too young at the time to make such an important decision. Obviously any decision you made at that age has to be in error, so I guess you must be going to hell after all.

Originally posted by Vilepagan
One last thing. You previously insisted that someone's opinion was worthless because they were only 15 years old, yet in your response to HaVok you state matter-of-factly that you knew you were "saved' at the tender age of 7. I'm afraid I can't accept that opinion because you were obviously too young at the time to make such an important decision. Obviously any decision you made at that age has to be in error, so I guess you must be going to hell after all.
Thank you, Vilepagan. :) Very good point.
I know because I have been saved.
So since you're "saved" you are all of a sudden omniscient? Tell me more, because I thought you can't be like God?

Originally posted by Vilepagan
So, what you are saying is that you know you aren't going to hell because someone told that you weren't going to hell because you have been "saved". Which once again still leaves the ultimate decision in God's hands.

Or maybe you meant that God himself told you that you weren't going to hell?

Or maybe you meant that....well to be honest I haven't a clue what you meant because you are either unwilling or unable to articulate your opinion on the subject.

One last thing. You previously insisted that someone's opinion was worthless because they were only 15 years old, yet in your response to HaVok you state matter-of-factly that you knew you were "saved' at the tender age of 7. I'm afraid I can't accept that opinion because you were obviously too young at the time to make such an important decision. Obviously any decision you made at that age has to be in error, so I guess you must be going to hell after all.

It states clearly in the Bible that if you accept God into your heart and understand what you're doing you are saved. At the age of 7 I willing accepted God into my heart and knew without a doubt what I was doing. You obviously don't go to church because kids as little as 4 or 5 get saved all the time. A few weeks ago we had a kid at the age of 5, a little boy, accept Jesus Christ into his heart. I am saved, I know that without a doubt, I also know that I'm going to heaven, and yes God decided that the day I accepted Him. My name is in God's book, which is probably something you know nothing about. Like I have said MANY times, if you do not know what you're talking about don't assume ANYTHING, because you have been COMPLETELY wrong.

Originally posted by BorgHunter
Thank you, Vilepagan. :) Very good point.

So since you're "saved" you are all of a sudden omniscient? Tell me more, because I thought you can't be like God?

LOL, you really are stupid aren't you. YOU CANNOT BE LIKE GOD...I'm pretty sure I've said this before but you're too young and immature to understand such a thing. I am saved, I have been baptized twice, once at the age of 7 and again when I moved when I was 13. I know God's word, which is very clear since I have proven all of you wrong at some point. I GO TO CHURCH EVERY SUNDAY!!! I have gone to church my WHOLE LIFE. I know that book frontwards and backwards. Unless you are saved the Bible says, not me, that you will not go to heaven....deal with it.

YOU ARE 15 YEARS OLD...when you finally reach the maturity level of at least a 9 year old come back and then maybe I can have a REAL conversation with you. You have asked the same stupid questions OVER AND OVER. You don't know how to comprehend anything and it's obnoxious so please, SHUT UP!!!!

Originally posted by ugababe117
I am saved, I have been baptized twice, once at the age of 7 and again when I moved when I was 13.

(...)

YOU ARE 15 YEARS OLD...
Oh, the hypocrisy...

Listen, you thump your precious Bible at all times, yet I have yet to see you offer any evidence beyond the Bible for any of your claims. I don't believe in the Bible. I wouldn't believe it any more than I believe Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter.

By the way, you seem to keep throwing it in my face that I'm 15 years old...why? I'm still sticking to my story that you're intimidated by a 15-year-old with a brain. Something which you obviously lack.
YOU CANNOT BE LIKE GOD...I'm pretty sure I've said this before
THAT WAS EXACTLY MY FUCKING POINT. You say you cannot be like God yet you claim to completely understand him and what he will do...think about what you're saying, does it sound right?

By the way, woman, according to your Bible...

"As in all the churches of the saints, the women should keep silence in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says. If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church." 1 Corinthians 14:34

"Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or have authority over men; she is to keep silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor." Timothy 2:11

Originally posted by ugababe117
LOL, you really are stupid aren't you.
you're too young and immature to understand
I read one sentence of your stupidity
i've heard enough of your childish nagging.

I'm not going to be the one burning in hell.

Keep treating people the way you do and you'll definitely be going to hell. At least that's the way I was taught in my church.

Originally posted by ugababe117 I am saved, I have been baptized twice, once at the age of 7 and again when I moved when I was 13. I know God's word, which is very clear since I have proven all of you wrong at some point. I GO TO CHURCH EVERY SUNDAY!!! I have gone to church my WHOLE LIFE. I know that book frontwards and backwards. Unless you are saved the Bible says, not me, that you will not go to heaven....deal with it.

I can't believe you think that this gets you into heaven. You're going through the motions, but you're not absorbing anything. Just because someone told you that you're saved doesn't mean that you can shit on the rest of humanity with no consequences. Going to church doesn't get you anywhere if you're not paying attention to what's being said! Memorizing the bible doesn't do anything for you if you don't understand it!

There's more to being a Christian than reading the bible and showing up for church. Like maybe being nice to your fellow man? You're in for a heck of a surprise when you die.

Originally posted by mad dog
Mopo your the one who said you could knock out a bear???? So If we have to go, your going with us, to be our protecter{that is just too damn funny } I live in the adirondack moutains so I do see my fair share of critters, I have also always loved the forest and have spent many hours out in the woods. In other words get a f**king clue.!!!
So what do you do when a wild animal attacks you? Just lie there and let it kill you? That sounds pretty damn stupid to me.
Originally posted by mad dog
I hope for you sake you are only killing animals during the proper time of year{during the proper hunting season} You must be dumber then a box of rocks if you can't see how everything needs to interact in nature. In other words get a clue!!!
I don’t believe in “hunting seasons.” A friend of mine owns a lot of wooded land, so we go hunting anytime we damn well feel like it, no matter what time of year it is. The pioneers never had to obey any “hunting season,” so why should I? Also, if an animal trespasses on my property, I have every right to shoot it.
Originally posted by mad dog
Wow that is just plain retarded, I suppose our wonderfull citys with their more then helpfull crack houses, and gangs are awsome. Humans are worse then most animals, when is the last time you saw bambi go up to a 10 year old and offer them crack? When was the last time you saw thumper go up to a 10 year old and kidnap, abuse, and then kill them?
That’s happened more times than you think. Nearly every time I turn on the news I hear about some animal (some domesticated, some not) attacking an innocent child for no reason. There is NO excuse for attacking a defenseless child; this goes for man AND animal!

Animals that show remorse and pity deserve remorse and pity in return, animals that show NO remorse or pity deserve none. That sounds quite fair to me.

Originally posted by BorgHunter
Oh, the hypocrisy...

Listen, you thump your precious Bible at all times, yet I have yet to see you offer any evidence beyond the Bible for any of your claims. I don't believe in the Bible. I wouldn't believe it any more than I believe Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter.

By the way, you seem to keep throwing it in my face that I'm 15 years old...why? I'm still sticking to my story that you're intimidated by a 15-year-old with a brain. Something which you obviously lack.

THAT WAS EXACTLY MY FUCKING POINT. You say you cannot be like God yet you claim to completely understand him and what he will do...think about what you're saying, does it sound right?
You know, Borg, you may not like ugababe117’s attitude (I don’t care much for it myself), but you made him that way by saying everything he believes in is fake. You almost done the same to me, but I wasn’t going to let you get to me. Ugababe117 is a direct result of all the atheists in America continually insulting and disrespecting Christianity. You are Dr. Frankenstein and ugababe117 is your monster.

Originally posted by Mopoloton
Ugababe117 is a direct result of all the atheists in America continually insulting and disrespecting Christianity. You are Dr. Frankenstein and ugababe117 is your monster.
You're blaming her attitude on me? WTF?

Originally posted by ugababe117
It states clearly in the Bible that if you accept God into your heart and understand what you're doing you are saved.

Actually it says that if you are baptized and believeth you will be saved (Mark 16:16). It doesn't say you have to understand what you are doing.


At the age of 7 I willing accepted God into my heart and knew without a doubt what I was doing. You obviously don't go to church because kids as little as 4 or 5 get saved all the time. A few weeks ago we had a kid at the age of 5, a little boy, accept Jesus Christ into his heart.


I think it's sad that you would take such young children and indoctrinate them into a faith that they are obviously too young to understand. Having a child repeat some memorized words and such, doesn't mean that a 4 year old has any comprehension of what's happening. (not that understanding is neccessary according to the Bible, but I still think it's sad)


I am saved, I know that without a doubt, I also know that I'm going to heaven, and yes God decided that the day I accepted Him. My name is in God's book, which is probably something you know nothing about. Like I have said MANY times, if you do not know what you're talking about don't assume ANYTHING, because you have been COMPLETELY wrong.

I am glad for you that you find comfort in your beliefs. I don't believe you have any idea what god has done or how he thinks however. When you write about God's book (the one with your name in it) you should refer to it as the Book of Life (Rev. 3-22) , but hey, I know nothing about it, right?

You have made many assumptions yourself, like assuming I don't go to church, but I won't suggest that means you don't know what you're talking about. You do seem to have a problem expressing yourself without being rude and calling people stupid. Did you learn that in church?

ugababe, i would like you to prove to me that you're going to heaven and the rest of us are going to hell. i'm presuming that god came down and personally told you all this.

and i suppose that four and five year olds are mature enough to choose thier faith as long as it is christianity, but fourteen and fifteen year olds aren't mature at all if they're atheists.