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dharmabum
02-11-2008, 07:42 AM
This is the issue that the Democrats are ignoring at their peril. Their support will dry up as quickly as it came if they don't grow some balls, and quick. If they let Bush and Co. leave office without even starting hearings into their crimes, they will experience the same kind of political suicide Gerald Ford did when he let Nixon get away with his crimes. If that happens, the Republicans will be back in control in 2012 and the downward spiral will continue.

Support Congressman Wexler! (http://www.wexlerwantshearings.com/)

Elected to end the war, Democrats have surrendered to Bush on Iraq and betrayed the peace movement for their own political ends

MATT TAIBBI Posted Feb 21, 2008 12:00 AM

Quietly, while Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama have been inspiring Democrats everywhere with their rolling bitchfest, congressional superduo Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi have completed one of the most awesome political collapses since Neville Chamberlain. At long last, the Democratic leaders of Congress have publicly surrendered on the Iraq War, just one year after being swept into power with a firm mandate to end it.

Solidifying his reputation as one of the biggest pussies in U.S. political history, Reid explained his decision to refocus his party's energies on topics other than ending the war by saying he just couldn't fit Iraq into his busy schedule. "We have the presidential election," Reid said recently. "Our time is really squeezed."

There was much public shedding of tears among the Democratic leadership, as Reid, Pelosi and other congressional heavyweights expressed deep sadness that their valiant charge up the hill of change had been thwarted by circumstances beyond their control — that, as much as they would love to continue trying to end the catastrophic Iraq deal, they would now have to wait until, oh, 2009 to try again. "We'll have a new president," said Pelosi. "And I do think at that time we'll take a fresh look at it."

Pelosi seemed especially broken up about having to surrender on Iraq, sounding like an NFL coach in a postgame presser, trying with a straight face to explain why he punted on first-and-goal. "We just didn't have any plays we liked down there," said the coach of the 0-15 Dems. "Sometimes you just have to play the field-position game...."

In reality, though, Pelosi and the Democrats were actually engaged in some serious point-shaving. Working behind the scenes, the Democrats have systematically taken over the anti-war movement, packing the nation's leading group with party consultants more interested in attacking the GOP than ending the war. "Our focus is on the Republicans," one Democratic apparatchik in charge of the anti-war coalition declared. "How can we juice up attacks on them?"

The story of how the Democrats finally betrayed the voters who handed them both houses of Congress a year ago is a depressing preview of what's to come if they win the White House. And if we don't pay attention to this sorry tale now, while there's still time to change our minds about whom to nominate, we might be stuck with this same bunch of spineless creeps for four more years. With no one but ourselves to blame.

The controversy over the Democratic "strategy" to end the war basically comes down to whom you believe. According to the Reid-Pelosi version of history, the Democrats tried hard to force President Bush's hand by repeatedly attempting to tie funding for the war to a scheduled withdrawal. Last spring they tried to get him to eat a timeline and failed to get the votes to override a presidential veto. Then they retreated and gave Bush his money, with the aim of trying again after the summer to convince a sufficient number of Republicans to cross the aisle in support of a timeline.

But in September, Gen. David Petraeus reported that Bush's "surge" in Iraq was working, giving Republicans who might otherwise have flipped sufficient cover to continue supporting the war. The Democrats had no choice, the legend goes, but to wait until 2009, in the hopes that things would be different under a Democratic president.

Democrats insist that the reason they can't cut off the money for the war, despite their majority in both houses, is purely political. "George Bush would be on TV every five minutes saying that the Democrats betrayed the troops," says Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont. Then he glumly adds another reason. "Also, it just wasn't going to happen."

Why it "just wasn't going to happen" is the controversy. In and around the halls of Congress, the notion that the Democrats made a sincere effort to end the war meets with, at best, derisive laughter. Though few congressional aides would think of saying so on the record, in private many dismiss their party's lame anti-war effort as an absurd dog-and-pony show, a calculated attempt to score political points without ever being serious about bringing the troops home.

"Yeah, the amount of expletives that flew in our office alone was unbelievable," says an aide to one staunchly anti-war House member. "It was all about the public show. Reid and Pelosi would say they were taking this tough stand against Bush, but if you actually looked at what they were sending to a vote, it was like Swiss cheese. Full of holes."

In the House, some seventy Democrats joined the Out of Iraq caucus and repeatedly butted heads with Reid and Pelosi, arguing passionately for tougher measures to end the war. The fight left some caucus members bitter about the party's failure. Rep. Barbara Lee of California was one of the first to submit an amendment to cut off funding unless it was tied to an immediate withdrawal. "I couldn't even get it through the Rules Committee in the spring," Lee says.

Rep. Lynn Woolsey, a fellow caucus member, says Democrats should have refused from the beginning to approve any funding that wasn't tied to a withdrawal. "If we'd been bold the minute we got control of the House — and that's why we got the majority, because the people of this country wanted us out of Iraq — if we'd been bold, even if we lost the votes, we would have gained our voice."

An honest attempt to end the war, say Democrats like Woolsey and Lee, would have involved forcing Bush to execute his veto and allowing the Republicans to filibuster all they wanted. Force a showdown, in other words, and use any means necessary to get the bloodshed ended.

"Can you imagine Tom DeLay and Denny Hastert taking no for an answer the way Reid and Pelosi did on Iraq?" asks the House aide in the expletive-filled office. "They'd find a way to get the votes. They'd get it done somehow."

But any suggestion that the Democrats had an obligation to fight this good fight infuriates the bund of hedging careerists in charge of the party. In fact, nothing sums up the current Democratic leadership better than its vitriolic criticisms of those recalcitrant party members who insist on interpreting their 2006 mandate as a command to actually end the war. Rep. David Obey, chair of the House Appropriations Committee and a key Pelosi-Reid ally, lambasted anti-war Democrats who "didn't want to get specks on those white robes of theirs." Obey even berated a soldier's mother who begged him to cut off funds for the war, accusing her and her friends of "smoking something illegal."

Rather than use the vast power they had to end the war, Democrats devoted their energy to making sure that "anti-war activism" became synonymous with "electing Democrats." Capitalizing on America's desire to end the war, they hijacked the anti-war movement itself, filling the ranks of peace groups with loyal party hacks. Anti-war organizations essentially became a political tool for the Democrats — one operated from inside the Beltway and devoted primarily to targeting Republicans.

This supposedly grass-roots "anti-war coalition" met regularly on K Street, the very capital of top-down Beltway politics. At the forefront of the groups are Thomas Matzzie and Brad Woodhouse of Americans Against the Escalation in Iraq, the leader of the anti-war lobby. Along with other K Street crusaders, the two have received iconic treatment from The Washington Post and The New York Times, both of which depicted the anti-war warriors as young idealist-progressives in shirtsleeves, riding a mirthful spirit into political combat — changing the world is fun!

But what exactly are these young idealists campaigning for? At its most recent meeting, the group eerily echoed the Reid-Pelosi "squeezed for time" mantra: Retreat from any attempt to end the war and focus on electing Democrats. "There was a lot of agreement that we can draw distinctions between anti-war Democrats and pro-war Republicans," a spokeswoman for Americans Against the Escalation in Iraq announced.

What the Post and the Times failed to note is that much of the anti-war group's leadership hails from a consulting firm called Hildebrand Tewes — whose partners, Steve Hildebrand and Paul Tewes, served as staffers for the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee (DSCC). In addition, these anti-war leaders continue to consult for many of the same U.S. senators whom they need to pressure in order to end the war. This is the kind of conflict of interest that would normally be an embarrassment in the activist community.

Worst of all is the case of Woodhouse, who came to Hildebrand Tewes after years of working as the chief mouthpiece for the DSCC, where he campaigned actively to re-elect Democratic senators who supported the Iraq War in the first place. Anyone bothering to look — and clearly the Post and the Times did not before penning their ardent bios of Woodhouse — would have found the youthful idealist bragging to newspapers before the Iraq invasion about the pro-war credentials of North Carolina candidate Erskine Bowles. "No one has been stronger in this race in supporting President Bush in the War on Terror and his efforts to effect a regime change in Iraq," boasted the future "anti-war" activist Woodhouse.

With guys like this in charge of the anti-war movement, much of what has passed for peace activism in the past year was little more than a thinly veiled scheme to use popular discontent over the war to unseat vulnerable Republicans up for re-election in 2008. David Sirota, a former congressional staffer whose new book, The Uprising, excoriates the Democrats for their failure to end the war, expresses disgust at the strategy of targeting only Republicans. "The whole idea is based on this insane fiction that there is no such thing as a pro-war Democrat," he says. "Their strategy allows Democrats to take credit for being against the war without doing anything to stop it. It's crazy."

Justin Raimondo, the uncompromising editorial director of Antiwar.com, regrets contributing twenty dollars to Americans Against the Escalation in Iraq. "Not only did they use it to target Republicans," he says, "they went after the ones who were on the fence about Iraq." The most notorious case involved Lincoln Chafee, a moderate from Rhode Island who lost his Senate seat in 2006. Since then, Chafee has taken shots at Democrats like Reid, Hillary Clinton and Chuck Schumer, all of whom campaigned against him despite having voted for the war themselves.

"Look, I understand partisan politics," says Chafee, who now concedes that voters were correct to punish him for his war vote. "I just find it amusing that those who helped get us into this mess now say we need to change the Senate — because we're in a mess."

The really tragic thing about the Democratic surrender on Iraq is that it's now all but guaranteed that the war will be off the table during the presidential campaign. Once again — it happened in 2002, 2004 and 2006 — the Democrats have essentially decided to rely on the voters to give them credit for being anti-war, despite the fact that, for all the noise they've made to the contrary, in the end they've done nothing but vote for war and cough up every dime they've been asked to give, every step of the way.

Even beyond the war, the Democrats have repeatedly gone limp-dick every time the Bush administration so much as raises its voice. Most recently, twelve Democrats crossed the aisle to grant immunity to phone companies who participated in Bush's notorious wiretapping program. Before that, Democrats caved in and confirmed Mike Mukasey as attorney general after he kept his middle finger extended and refused to condemn waterboarding as torture. Democrats fattened by Wall Street also got cold feet about upsetting the country's gazillionaires, refusing to close a tax loophole that rewarded hedge-fund managers with a tax rate less than half that paid by ordinary citizens.

But the war is where they showed their real mettle. Before the 2006 elections, Democrats told us we could expect more specifics on their war plans after Election Day. Nearly two years have passed since then, and now they are once again telling us to wait until after an election to see real action to stop the war. In the meantime, of course, we're to remember that they're the good guys, the Republicans are the real enemy, and, well, go Hillary! Semper fi! Yay, team!

How much of this bullshit are we going to take? How long are we supposed to give the Reids and Pelosis and Hillarys of the world credit for wanting, deep down in their moldy hearts, to do the right thing?

Look, fuck your hearts, OK? Just get it done. Because if you don't, sooner or later this con is going to run dry. It may not be in '08, but it'll be soon. Even Americans can't be fooled forever.

Freethinker
02-11-2008, 08:08 AM
Even Americans can't be fooled forever.

I beg to differ.

__________________

The Democratic Party and the Republican Party are both political instruments of the American financial aristocracy. They are not identical, because they employ different appeals, have different histories, and to some extent speak for different factions of the corporate-financial elite, but the two big business Parties have the same basic social function: maintaining the domination of American society by the corporate-financial elite and upholding the worldwide interests of American imperialism.

Foolsworth
02-11-2008, 08:19 AM
Well All i gotta say,IS... Republicans learned a serious Political
Bipartisan Lesson.For working across the aisle and trying out their
hand at bein big spenders { Earmarks & Pork barrel } The '06
Congressional topsy-turvy was played.
For bein Patriotic and Defending Right { Saving Iraqi from a Mad
controlling Dictator with Sadist Sons } and in
Chicken Hawk Mode,this is the thanks ... Repubbies Get.
I fully realize Bush campaigned in 2000 as one who dint believe in
the notion of - Nation Building - but then who nude of the perils
awaiting a Vicious world-shaking attack like 9/11.?
Sometimes " Greatness is Thrust Upon One ".
I say Make George Bush a King.
Among Men.

Brooks
02-11-2008, 08:28 AM
If you want more information go to WexlerWantsHearings.com.

While there you can see these links:
NEW: Video of Wexler on House Floor
Audio of Wexler interview
Read the Op Ed
Contribute
WexlerForCongress.com

Paid for by Wexler for Congress

Foolsworth
02-11-2008, 08:43 AM
If you want more information go to WexlerWantsHearings.com.

While there you can see these links:
NEW: Video of Wexler on House Floor
Audio of Wexler interview
Read the Op Ed
Contribute
WexlerForCongress.com

Paid for by Wexler for Congress

Wexler is nuthin but a Dem Operative Hack.
He's a Liar and a cheat.
An embarrasement.He was instrumental in putting egg on the face of the
Democratic Party in the Florida Recount Fiasco in 2000.

Travh20
02-11-2008, 09:42 AM
What crimes exactly do you want them on trial for?

dharmabum
02-11-2008, 09:47 AM
What crimes exactly do you want them on trial for?


Who said anything about a Trial, Drama Queen?

Travh20
02-11-2008, 09:54 AM
fine, hearings, whatever.

dharmabum
02-11-2008, 09:57 AM
fine, hearings, whatever.

And we won't know what crimes were committed until after we have hearings won't we?

Getting the picture yet?

Foolsworth
02-11-2008, 10:00 AM
fine, hearings, whatever.

Wexler happens to be a Hearings Nut.
He even has the countenance for it.
Has that kinda Traditionally Hatefull democrat look.
With hair standing on end,like a beaver awaiting trouble.

Travh20
02-11-2008, 10:30 AM
And we won't know what crimes were committed until after we have hearings won't we?

Getting the picture yet?

Yes, a fishing expedition, I get it.

dharmabum
02-11-2008, 10:38 AM
Yes, a fishing expedition, I get it.

No, you really don't get it.

Travh20
02-11-2008, 10:57 AM
You just said they will find crimes during the hearings.

Freethinker
02-11-2008, 03:35 PM
we won't know what crimes were committed until after we have hearings

You just said they will find crimes during the hearings.

Wow.

Reading comprehension is not your strong suit.

_________________________

A large segment of American society seems utterly brainwashed, accepting the "truth" relentlessly fed to them by the Corporate Media. They so desperately want to believe the slogans about the "Land of the Free", the "American Way", "God Bless America" and "American Democracy".

Travh20
02-11-2008, 04:45 PM
And we won't know what crimes were committed until after we have hearings won't we?


I asked him to name some crimes and he did not know any, said we wont know until after the hearing, which means they are having hearing to find crimes.

mikezila
02-11-2008, 05:06 PM
This is the issue that the Democrats are ignoring at their peril. Their support will dry up as quickly as it came if they don't grow some balls, and quick. If they let Bush and Co. leave office without even starting hearings into their crimes, they will experience the same kind of political suicide Gerald Ford did when he let Nixon get away with his crimes. If that happens, the Republicans will be back in control in 2012 and the downward spiral will continue.

Support Congressman Wexler! (http://www.wexlerwantshearings.com/)
you ever think that maybe that it's just you, and the rest of the world just doesn't agree with you?

dharmabum
02-11-2008, 06:00 PM
you ever think that maybe that it's just you, and the rest of the world just doesn't agree with you?

No, I think it is just you. :thumbs:

dharmabum
02-11-2008, 06:01 PM
Wow.

Reading comprehension is not your strong suit.


Apparently not.
He only seems to understand what the voices in his head tell him.

Vilepagan
02-11-2008, 06:54 PM
Apparently not.
He only seems to understand what the voices in his head tell him.

You can say what you want about Trav, but he didn't resort to infantile name-calling, even after you did.

Btw, I stopped reading your article when the writer felt it necessary to call a member of Congress a pussy. I guess I see why the article appealed to you.

mikezila
02-11-2008, 08:33 PM
No, I think it is just you. :thumbs:
you're half right. i do disagree with you, but it's not just me.

Foolsworth
02-11-2008, 08:39 PM
You can say what you want about Trav, but he didn't resort to infantile name-calling, even after you did.

Btw, I stopped reading your article when the writer felt it necessary to call a member of Congress a pussy. I guess I see why the article appealed to you.

I don't understand you Mods.Or,at least sums the Moderators.
What in the world is wrong with Name-calling.?
It happens to be The Favorite Pasttime of America.
Or,at least until some Billy Bob Southern Hick like Slick Willy
Clinton,indoctrinated the Country with his PC type agenda.
Political Correctness is a Form of coercive Communicative Communism.
This Country was founded on the Principle of Jests and Mocking.
If ya can't stand the heat,get out of the Kitchen.
I don't trust those who are so lily-livered sensitive as to feel
embarassed by name-calling.
What ya gots,besides Name-calling.?
A Country full of Debutantes and dandified effete Fops.
I personally don't wanna be a Fop.Do you.?
I just as soon wear a wig and powered makeup,at home.
Is All.

mikezila
02-11-2008, 08:47 PM
I don't understand you Mods.Or,at least sums the Moderators.
What in the world is wrong with Name-calling.?
It happens to be The Favorite Pasttime of America.
Or,at least until some Billy Bob Southern Hick like Slick Willy
Clinton,indoctrinated the Country with his PC type agenda.
Political Correctness is a Form of coercive Communicative Communism.
This Country was founded on the Principle of Jests and Mocking.
If ya can't stand the heat,get out of the Kitchen.
I don't trust those who are so lily-livered sensitive as to feel
embarassed by name-calling.
What ya gots,besides Name-calling.?
A Country full of Debutantes and dandified effete Fops.
I personally don't wanna be a Fop.Do you.?
I just as soon wear a wig and powered makeup,at home.
Is All.
vulgarity is a sign of desperation.

Foolsworth
02-11-2008, 09:50 PM
vulgarity is a sign of desperation.

Oh ! I guess that explains Why Porn isn't King.
Because it's So doggone Polite and all.

mikezila
02-11-2008, 10:24 PM
Oh ! I guess that explains Why Porn isn't King.
Because it's So doggone Polite and all.
there's a lot of lonely, desperate ppl out there.

Foolsworth
02-11-2008, 10:27 PM
there's a lot of lonely, desperate ppl out there.

I wouldn't know.
I'm too concerned with the typical Bank Robber leaves Identification
so as to be Banned,kinda stuff.

mikezila
02-11-2008, 10:47 PM
I wouldn't know.
I'm too concerned with the typical Bank Robber leaves Identification
so as to be Banned,kinda stuff.
my fav is still the guy that robbed a bank and wrote the note on one of his deposit slips:)

Foolsworth
02-12-2008, 08:23 AM
my fav is still the guy that robbed a bank and wrote the note on one of his deposit slips:)

I don't " fav ". I tried and it only got stuck.
Not gOOt for a Bank robber to have a flat,Danny call in hears
for Advice.

dharmabum
02-12-2008, 11:52 AM
but it's not just me.

No, it is just you. :thumbs:

dharmabum
02-12-2008, 11:55 AM
You can say what you want about Trav, but he didn't resort to infantile name-calling, even after you did.

I never said anything even approaching the things that have been said to and about me on here by others.
You know that. :rolleyes:


Btw, I stopped reading your article when the writer felt it necessary to call a member of Congress a pussy. I guess I see why the article appealed to you.

I find it very interesting that you can easily stomach all sorts of foul language from posters on here but you can't even read an article because it uses the word "pussy".

Thats pathetic.

waldo
02-12-2008, 03:49 PM
And we won't know what crimes were committed until after we have hearings won't we?

Getting the picture yet?

Crackpots 'R' US?

The legal system doesn't work that way.

Travh20
02-12-2008, 04:18 PM
Hence the fishing expedition comment.

dharmabum
02-12-2008, 06:33 PM
The legal system doesn't work that way.

You think they go straight to prosecution with no investigation, eh?

dharmabum
02-12-2008, 06:35 PM
Hence the fishing expedition comment.

By your standards, every investigation is a "fishing expedition".
The problem with your question about what crimes they will go after is that there are so many to choose from I could not possibly know what they will choose to focus on.
The only question that makes sense if you actually understand the situation is, "which crimes would you prefer they target first?"

LiquidFork
02-12-2008, 06:41 PM
I never said anything even approaching the things that have been said to and about me on here by others.
You know that. :rolleyes:.

Yeah you do take a verbal beating on here on a regular basis.



I find it very interesting that you can easily stomach all sorts of foul language from posters on here but you can't even read an article because it uses the word "pussy".

Thats pathetic.

I took his comment that he stopped reading it once he came across that word not because he was offended,he stopped reading it because he didnt think the writer was worth reading for calling a congressman a pussy. it is kind of hard to take someones words as serious when they choose to use vulgarity like that in simple communications.

Vilepagan
02-12-2008, 06:44 PM
I never said anything even approaching the things that have been said to and about me on here by others.
You know that. :rolleyes:

In this thread? That was what I was referring to.


I find it very interesting that you can easily stomach all sorts of foul language from posters on here but you can't even read an article because it uses the word "pussy".

Thats pathetic.

Not as pathetic as what passes for polite debate in your view.

I didn't read the article because I'm not interested in what someone has to say who resorts to name-calling like the author did, not because I can't "stomach" the language. I don't respect Rush Limbaugh for the same reason. Similarly, when you engage in such behavior yourself, you lessen your own relevance in the discussion.

I let the posters here use what language they will because I don't like to censor others, I'd prefer they do it themselves. If you wish to make yourself look foolish, go ahead, but I reserve the right to point out your ill-mannered behavior from time to time. It's one of the perks of being a mod. :)

Vilepagan
02-12-2008, 06:45 PM
I took his comment that he stopped reading it once he came across that word not because he was offended,he stopped reading it because he didnt think the writer was worth reading for calling a congressman a pussy. it is kind of hard to take someones words as serious when they choose to use vulgarity like that in simple communications.

You beat me by three minutes, but you're exactly right LF. IMO, the author just shot himself in the foot.

Travh20
02-12-2008, 08:03 PM
By your standards, every investigation is a "fishing expedition".
The problem with your question about what crimes they will go after is that there are so many to choose from I could not possibly know what they will choose to focus on.
The only question that makes sense if you actually understand the situation is, "which crimes would you prefer they target first?"


fine do an ivestigation, but you are calling for HEARINGS to find crimes, that my friend is a fishing expedition.

Foolsworth
02-12-2008, 08:52 PM
In this thread? That was what I was referring to.



Not as pathetic as what passes for polite debate in your view.

I didn't read the article because I'm not interested in what someone has to say who resorts to name-calling like the author did, not because I can't "stomach" the language. I don't respect Rush Limbaugh for the same reason. Similarly, when you engage in such behavior yourself, you lessen your own relevance in the discussion.

I let the posters here use what language they will because I don't like to censor others, I'd prefer they do it themselves. If you wish to make yourself look foolish, go ahead, but I reserve the right to point out your ill-mannered behavior from time to time. It's one of the perks of being a mod. :)

So,You're not a proponent of Satire,I presume.?
I Love Satire.It's relevance in the annals of History and Politics will
live far beyond any one politician and may well be the impetus for
true change,not mere vote pandering.

Mixing Humor and anger it is an essential literary tool for necessary
reform or mere understanding of the times.I'm not inferring that it
need be so abrasive as Roman Satire and as Pliny reported that
B.C. Poet Hipponax wrote Satirae so cruel that the offended
hanged themselves.

" I can set a braggart quailing with a quip,
The upstart I can wither with a whim;
He may wear a merry laugh upon his lip,
But his laughter has an echo that is grim! "

dharmabum
02-13-2008, 06:32 AM
Not as pathetic as what passes for polite debate in your view.

I don't give anywhere near as bad as the treatment I receive on a regular basis.

And you know that.


I reserve the right to point out your ill-mannered behavior from time to time. It's one of the perks of being a mod. :)

I was unaware that being an ill-mannered, hypocritical jerk is a perk of being a mod.

dharmabum
02-13-2008, 06:33 AM
fine do an ivestigation, but you are calling for HEARINGS to find crimes

Actually it is to find evidence, Einstein. :rolleyes:

dharmabum
02-13-2008, 06:37 AM
Yeah you do take a verbal beating on here on a regular basis.

Thanks for acknowledging that. It is more honest than Vile appears capable of being.



I took his comment that he stopped reading it once he came across that word not because he was offended,he stopped reading it because he didnt think the writer was worth reading for calling a congressman a pussy.

so he was offended by the word "pussy". The word "wimp" just isn't strong enough, so pussy was the only appropriate word to convey the correct feelings of the author.


it is kind of hard to take someones words as serious when they choose to use vulgarity like that in simple communications.

I disagree, if one understands the writer and the context of what was written.

Vilepagan
02-13-2008, 06:45 AM
Thanks for acknowledging that. It is more honest than Vile appears capable of being.

Again dharma, I was talking about this thread...perhaps you could show me where you've "taken a beating" in this thread.


so he was offended by the word "pussy". The word "wimp" just isn't strong enough, so pussy was the only appropriate word to convey the correct feelings of the author.

You are deliberately ignoring the point dharma, because your consistent reaction to having your behavior called into question is some variation of "he started it".

Grow up, and take responsibility for your own actions, and stop blaming others for what you post.

BTW, if you think the word "pussy" is appropriate when expressing your political opinions, you're in no position to call someone else "ill-mannered".

dharmabum
02-13-2008, 06:48 AM
Again dharma, I was talking about this thread...

Riiiiiiiiight... lets just ignore all the other threads on the board and pretend they don't exist. :rolleyes:

Your hypocrisy is so galling, if you weren't a mod, I would put you on ignore.

Vilepagan
02-13-2008, 06:50 AM
I don't give anywhere near as bad as the treatment I receive on a regular basis.

Please show me where you were treated badly in this thread.


I was unaware that being an ill-mannered, hypocritical jerk is a perk of being a mod.

What you are unaware of would fill volumes. Take a temper pill dharma, or take some time off. Your choice for now, but please don't make it my choice. :)

elemental jim
02-13-2008, 12:28 PM
This is the issue that the Democrats are ignoring at their peril. Their support will dry up as quickly as it came if they don't grow some balls, and quick. If they let Bush and Co. leave office without even starting hearings into their crimes, they will experience the same kind of political suicide Gerald Ford did when he let Nixon get away with his crimes. If that happens, the Republicans will be back in control in 2012 and the downward spiral will continue.

Support Congressman Wexler! (http://www.wexlerwantshearings.com/)
Taibbi is a wild man and right on point.
The DINO'S broke their promise.. repeatedly..

"I have a couple of quotes from Nov.06 for you. (http://opinionsandreasons.blogspot.com/2007/07/kleptocracy_03.html)
“The days of the do-nothing Congress are over,” declared Democratic Sen. Harry Reid ..
“This new Democratic majority has heard the voices of the American people,” said Rep. Nancy Pelosi..
Quotes from when the Democrats "took back Congress".

elemental jim
02-13-2008, 12:33 PM
I beg to differ.

__________________

The Democratic Party and the Republican Party are both political instruments of the American financial aristocracy. They are not identical, because they employ different appeals, have different histories, and to some extent speak for different factions of the corporate-financial elite, but the two big business Parties have the same basic social function: maintaining the domination of American society by the corporate-financial elite and upholding the worldwide interests of American imperialism.
Exactamundo..
It's hard to tell the difference. Both parties corrupted by corporate greed and both ignore the people they are supposed to represent.
A broken system for sure..

elemental jim
02-13-2008, 12:50 PM
You can say what you want about Trav, but he didn't resort to infantile name-calling, even after you did.

Btw, I stopped reading your article when the writer felt it necessary to call a member of Congress a pussy. I guess I see why the article appealed to you.
Gimme a break..
This comment smells as much as when you dismissed shaman for "Citizens United Not Timid". As strange as it was.. it was real and you dismissed because you didn't like or was offended by the word.
So this time because dharm or Taibbi calls Congress a bunch of pussies and you stopped reading..:confused:
If bad words offend you why are reading this forum as apposed to say a nice Disney forum?
And of course I'm being cynical but it seems you have changed or have some new issues... just curious..

And btw. Many members of Congress are spineless pussies that don't deserve you defending their stinking character.. or lack there of..:rant:

Freethinker
02-13-2008, 02:40 PM
So this time because dharm or Taibbi calls Congress a bunch of pussies and you stopped reading..:confused:

Truthfully, I was a bit confused by it also.

And Taibbi didn't call Congress "p#ssies".

What he said was --

""Solidifying his reputation as one of the biggest pussies in U.S. political history, Reid explained his decision....""

In effect, he was pointing out that Reid had wimped out, big time, on what his Party's stated goals and objectives were. Could he have used milder language? Sure.

But I would imagine he feels about it as I do; he's so sick of witnessing the RightWing's treachery and lies and dismantling of our rights and their criminality and their illegal wiretapping and their use of torture that he doesn't care any more if it *offends* the delicate sensibilities of the crooks in Washington to call them what they are......or if it hurts the feelings of those who support the crooks and make endless excuses for them.

waldo
02-13-2008, 04:04 PM
You think they go straight to prosecution with no investigation, eh?

The investigation is done by police, not by the legislative branch.:rolleyes:

Vilepagan
02-13-2008, 04:57 PM
Gimme a break..
This comment smells as much as when you dismissed shaman for "Citizens United Not Timid". As strange as it was.. it was real and you dismissed because you didn't like or was offended by the word.

It's not a word that belongs in polite conversation, or on this forum. If you can't express your opinion without using it, you don't belong here.


So this time because dharm or Taibbi calls Congress a bunch of pussies and you stopped reading..:confused:

Don't be confused Jim, it's simple. The author demonstrated by his choice of vocabulary that he had nothing intelligent to say. It's not a matter of being offended by the word "pussy". If I had been offended, I'd have deleted the remark. :)


If bad words offend you why are reading this forum as apposed to say a nice Disney forum?
And of course I'm being cynical but it seems you have changed or have some new issues... just curious..

Jim, would you use those words in front of your twelve year-old daughter? I suspect not. If not, then you shouldn't use them here, because we have some young members, and anyone, of any age, can browse what you post as a guest. Generally the mods here let people express themselves using whatever words they choose without anything being said about it, and generally the posters here are mindful of what they say. There are some words that don't belong here at any time, for example the word "cunt", and I would say that ethnic or racial slurs also fall into that category.


And btw. Many members of Congress are spineless pussies that don't deserve you defending their stinking character.. or lack there of..:rant:

I wasn't defending Congress, I was attacking the author of the article for choosing his words poorly. As I said, IMO he showed he didn't have anything intelligent to say by engaging in behavior best left on the playground.

elemental jim
02-13-2008, 05:59 PM
It's not a word that belongs in polite conversation, or on this forum. If you can't express your opinion without using it, you don't belong here.



Don't be confused Jim, it's simple. The author demonstrated by his choice of vocabulary that he had nothing intelligent to say. It's not a matter of being offended by the word "pussy". If I had been offended, I'd have deleted the remark. :)



Jim, would you use those words in front of your twelve year-old daughter? I suspect not. If not, then you shouldn't use them here, because we have some young members, and anyone, of any age, can browse what you post as a guest. Generally the mods here let people express themselves using whatever words they choose without anything being said about it, and generally the posters here are mindful of what they say. There are some words that don't belong here at any time, for example the word "cunt", and I would say that ethnic or racial slurs also fall into that category.



I wasn't defending Congress, I was attacking the author of the article for choosing his words poorly. As I said, IMO he showed he didn't have anything intelligent to say by engaging in behavior best left on the playground.
OK.. thanks for taking time to clarify and I admit I wasn't thinking about young people in here. I don't take the expletives that seriously.
Taibbi is a hoot and if you have ever seen him on Bill Maher he drops the From UnCarnal Knowlege bomb alot.. but I still listen and digest.. the cussin doesn't take away from the content or the point to me.;)

dharmabum
02-13-2008, 11:29 PM
The investigation is done by police, not by the legislative branch.

That goes to show how little you know about the oversight responsibilities of Congress.

dharmabum
02-13-2008, 11:52 PM
Truthfully, I was a bit confused by it also.

Vile's overreaction makes more sense if you understand that he has a personal dislike of me.

Foolsworth
02-14-2008, 08:06 AM
Vile's overreaction makes more sense if you understand that he has a personal dislike of me.

That may well be.But he has Me,me,me,me... Meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
on Ignore.
I mean,like fer a Mod.
The Effrontery.
The absolute indigestible GALL.
Is all.

waldo
02-14-2008, 09:07 AM
That goes to show how little you know about the oversight responsibilities of Congress.

Oversight responsibilities and criminal investigations are different beasts.

But i'm sure you'll explain how Congress will get around the problem they face on the war. After all they authorized it.:rolleyes:

Foolsworth
02-14-2008, 09:18 AM
Oversight responsibilities and criminal investigations are different beasts.

But i'm sure you'll explain how Congress will get around the problem they face on the war. After all they authorized it.:rolleyes:

Under new Management Congress is NOW truly little more than a
bad joke.Of all the necessary bidness they needed to attend to
Under Madame Bela Pelosi,they managed to have 60 some bills
passed in honor of naming new Post Offices.
The New Congress of '07 DID manage to call for special prosecutors,
launch investigations { particularly under Congressional bloodhound
Henry Waxman,like yesterday and Baseball } ,Issue throngs of subpoena,
and generally settle scores,all while appropriations bills go unpassed
and the like.

The Country { or the part of it that is functionally adult enough }
NOW realizes what a Crock of Bull the Dems are.
Politics is a Joke,because of :

Dimocrats

The Praetorian
02-14-2008, 11:41 AM
Not as pathetic as what passes for polite debate in your view.

I didn't read the article because I'm not interested in what someone has to say who resorts to name-calling like the author did, not because I can't "stomach" the language. I don't respect Rush Limbaugh for the same reason. Similarly, when you engage in such behavior yourself, you lessen your own relevance in the discussion.

I let the posters here use what language they will because I don't like to censor others, I'd prefer they do it themselves. If you wish to make yourself look foolish, go ahead, but I reserve the right to point out your ill-mannered behavior from time to time. It's one of the perks of being a mod. :)
Nice response, Vile. Cheers.

The Praetorian
02-14-2008, 11:56 AM
Gimme a break..
This comment smells as much as when you dismissed shaman for "Citizens United Not Timid". As strange as it was.. it was real and you dismissed because you didn't like or was offended by the word.
So this time because dharm or Taibbi calls Congress a bunch of pussies and you stopped reading..:confused:
If bad words offend you why are reading this forum as apposed to say a nice Disney forum?
And of course I'm being cynical but it seems you have changed or have some new issues... just curious..

And btw. Many members of Congress are spineless pussies that don't deserve you defending their stinking character.. or lack there of..:rant:
He's not being disingenuous at all, actually. He doesn't read what I have to say half the time because I, myself, use language that's not conducive to "intelligent" or "mature" debate. I've got the PMs to back up how many times he's rebuked me privately for using certain "no-no" words. In this particular case, he didn't even have a problem (per se) with the word "pussy"; he just felt that it weakened the message, so he stopped reading.

Get over yourselves. :rolleyes:

Man, Vile, I'm sorry you get picked on so much. OTOH, I find it very telling that it's always by the lunatic fringe.

Frogger
02-14-2008, 11:58 AM
And we won't know what crimes were committed until after we have hearings won't we?

Getting the picture yet?



Yeah, we get the picture. It's called a fishing expedition. You have no crimes but you hope that an investigation might possible uncover some.

The Praetorian
02-14-2008, 12:03 PM
Yeah, we get the picture. It's called a fishing expedition.
They're known for 'em. How many do we have thus far? The election, Valerie Plame, 9/11, et cetera.

Foolsworth
02-14-2008, 12:43 PM
Yeah, we get the picture. It's called a fishing expedition. You have no crimes but you hope that an investigation might possible uncover some.

I don't recall Perry Mason ever Goin' Fishin !

The Praetorian
02-14-2008, 12:49 PM
I don't recall Perry Mason ever Goin' Fishin !
No. Perry Mason had real cases.

Vilepagan
02-14-2008, 05:10 PM
That may well be.But he has Me,me,me,me... Meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
on Ignore.
I mean,like fer a Mod.
The Effrontery.
The absolute indigestible GALL.
Is all.

I don't have you on "Ignore" fooly, as a mod I don't think that would be appropriate. :)

I just rarely come across one of your posts that I wish to respond to. ;)

Vilepagan
02-14-2008, 05:14 PM
Vile's overreaction makes more sense if you understand that he has a personal dislike of me.

As I've said to you in the past dharma, I don't dislike you, I dislike your rudeness.

If you believe that I dislike you, and that I act on that dislike as a mod, why are you still here? I mean, if I was as biased as you apparently believe, why didn't I simply ban you long ago?

dharmabum
02-14-2008, 05:48 PM
If you believe that I dislike you, and that I act on that dislike as a mod, why are you still here? I mean, if I was as biased as you apparently believe, why didn't I simply ban you long ago?

I have my suspicions but I won't even pretend to understand why you do some of the strange things you do.

dharmabum
02-14-2008, 05:49 PM
But i'm sure you'll explain how Congress will get around the problem they face on the war. After all they authorized it.

What "war"?
Are you referring to the "war" in Iraq, that we already won years ago?

:rolleyes:

The Praetorian
02-14-2008, 05:51 PM
If you believe that I dislike you, and that I act on that dislike as a mod, why are you still here? I mean, if I was as biased as you apparently believe, why didn't I simply ban you long ago?
I hope it's not too late, but....will you ban him? Pretty please with sugar on top!!!!

Vilepagan
02-14-2008, 06:00 PM
I have my suspicions but I won't even pretend to understand why you do some of the strange things you do.

Oh, ok. So when you stated that I rebuked you for being rude because I have a "personal dislike" for you it was a result of that lack of understanding. Got it.

dharmabum
02-14-2008, 06:03 PM
Oh, ok. So when you stated that I rebuked you for being rude because I have a "personal dislike" for you it was a result of that lack of understanding. Got it.

Riiiiiiiiight. And I'm supposedly the rude one. :rolleyes:

Vilepagan
02-14-2008, 06:09 PM
Riiiiiiiiight. And I'm supposedly the rude one. :rolleyes:

There's no supposing, dharma. All you have to do is read this thread (and many others), and the conclusion is inescapable.

DarkFantasy96
02-14-2008, 09:06 PM
There's no supposing, dharma. All you have to do is read this thread (and many others), and the conclusion is inescapable.
Vile - I don't know that I agree with you in many discussions, but for what it's worth I think you've been very fair as a mod. :)

dharmabum
02-14-2008, 10:54 PM
There's no supposing, dharma. All you have to do is read this thread (and many others), and the conclusion is inescapable.

Whatever Vile.

:rolleyes:

dharmabum
02-14-2008, 11:01 PM
Vile - I don't know that I agree with you in many discussions, but for what it's worth I think you've been very fair as a mod.

Just don't say something that offends him, as I did, because he doesn't seem capable of getting over it and he won't be a very fair mod to you after that.

Vilepagan
02-15-2008, 06:20 AM
*chuckles* Dharma, your rudeness is only overshadowed by your predictability.

dharmabum
02-15-2008, 06:34 AM
*chuckles* Dharma, your rudeness is only overshadowed by your predictability.

And your hypocrisy.

Vilepagan
02-15-2008, 06:37 AM
Vile - I don't know that I agree with you in many discussions, but for what it's worth I think you've been very fair as a mod. :)

Thanks for the kind words, DF. :flowers:

BorgHunter
02-15-2008, 01:15 PM
Just don't say something that offends him, as I did, because he doesn't seem capable of getting over it and he won't be a very fair mod to you after that.
Where is SMW and her gallery of crying baby pictures when you need her? I finally found a situation where they might actually be appropriate and amusing!

The Praetorian
02-15-2008, 01:50 PM
Vile - I don't know that I agree with you in many discussions, but for what it's worth I think you've been very fair as a mod. :)
I think he's been more than fair, too. Don't worry, Vile - you can skip the flowers. :)

dharmabum
02-15-2008, 06:33 PM
Where is SMW and her gallery of crying baby pictures when you need her? I finally found a situation where they might actually be appropriate and amusing!

Yeah, I looked for it briefly to post in response to Vile

BorgHunter
02-15-2008, 06:38 PM
Yeah, I looked for it briefly to post in response to Vile
::waves hand over his head:: Whoosh!

mikezila
02-15-2008, 06:41 PM
::waves hand over his head:: Whoosh!
:lolhit:

dharmabum
02-15-2008, 06:43 PM
::waves hand over his head:: Whoosh!

*chuckle*

Sparky2
02-16-2008, 08:06 AM
Truthfully, I was a bit confused by it also.

And Taibbi didn't call Congress "p#ssies".

What he said was --

""Solidifying his reputation as one of the biggest pussies in U.S. political history, Reid explained his decision....""



Here's why you and I were both confused, FT.
Senator Harry Reid, a Representative from the State of Nevada, is an utterly useless individual, oft referred to as one of the biggest pussies in U.S. political history.
http://bioguide.congress.gov/bioguide/photo/R/R000146.jpg

Verismo Leonetti Reserve Red, a cat from New Jersey, is an utterly useless feline, oft hailed as the actual biggest pussy in US history.
http://thelongestlistofthelongeststuffatthelongestdomainn ameatlonglast.com/images5/cat.JPG

It's understandable, this confusion.
I hope this helped.

Freethinker
02-16-2008, 09:35 AM
It's understandable, this confusion.
I hope this helped.

a) If you want to be technical about it, members of the cat family Felinae can no more correctly be called "pussies" than can politicians.

b)If slang terms are going to be used, either of them can be deemed to be "the biggest pussy".

c) They both deserve the title.

Hope that clears up any confusion you may have had.

:rolleyes: