...stupid citizens. Not to be outdone by polls showing many citizens in America as idiots, the U.K. charges ahead in the race for the most ignorant populace...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080204/od_afp/britainpeoplehistoryoffbeat

I'll sleep better tonight knowing that some in the U.K. are at least as dumb as some of my neighbors.

I'll sleep better tonight knowing that some in the U.K. are at least as dumb as some of my neighbors.

Haha, indeed.

The world is such a funny place.

WTF? A quarter of the Britons think Churchill is a myth? Winston Churchill, the man who led their country through one of the most tumultuous times in history no more than 60 some years ago? I mean wow, that's pretty bad.

Granted, like 50% of Americans can't find New York on a map, oh well. Cheers to stupid people.

This is what happens when you have unfettered immigrtion. Immigrants do not have the same interest in the history of their adopted country as do those whose ancestors have lived there for generations.

After the breakup of its colonial empire, Great Britain allowed residents of its former colonies to emmigrate to the Sceptered Isle. These people were not raised on stories of England's, Scotland's and Wales' heroes. They knew nothing of Agincourt, Crechy, The Field of the Cloth of Gold, Salsbury Plain, the border marchers, the Stone of Scone or any of the other things that British children had absorbed with their mother's milk.

The same thing happens in the U.S., immigrants have no knowledge of Bunker Hill, The Alamo, Appomatox Courthouse or the heroes of American history.

This kinda reminds me of some test results I saw several years ago, from a University somewhere in Florida, I think it was.

This was a simple entrance exam given to incoming freshmen.

A good amount of the students could not identify either England, France, or the ATLANTIC OCEAN on a world map.

Only a few could name even simple state capitals. Many could name but a few US Presidents; a few thought FDR was Prez during the Civil War, and more than a few thought we had fought ENGLAND during the Second World War.

I thought at the time, and still do, that many, if not most, of these test-takers were foreign born or newly arrived immigrants. I have a hard time believing that the US born -and -raised could not identify Lincoln as the 16 Prez or that the CW was fought between the North and South; not the US and Japan as some kids answered.

At least, I HOPE so.

I actually disagree with you Ren... In the town I lived in during middle school we had those sorts of surveys sometimes... This was a 98% white town filled mostly with people whose ancestors had been there for centuries... Something like half the 8th graders couldn't place Mexico or England on the map, and once I remember most of the class being asked to name as many presidents as they could think of - average number was 4 or 5.

Good lord. Not good. My own ex-husband thought Grant was Prez during the Civil War.
Oh well , at least he'd HEARD of Grant!

This is what happens when you have unfettered immigrtion. Immigrants do not have the same interest in the history of their adopted country as do those whose ancestors have lived there for generations.
What leads you to believe that immigrants are responsible for the poor results in these surveys?

Regardless, it doesn't take several generations of ancestry for people to become knowledgable about a country's history. For that to happen, it only takes one generation to go through school in that country.

Most of us learned about George Washington, Abe Lincol nb, and the like during elementary school. Immigrants hav not gone to elementary school in this country. It is not a slam against immigrants.

Most of us learned about George Washington, Abe Lincol nb, and the like during elementary school. Immigrants hav not gone to elementary school in this country. It is not a slam against immigrants.
Yeah, and most kids forget all but the "most important" things by the time they're my age... They could tell you that Lincoln was a President, but not what number he was. They certainly couldn't tell you what year the Constitution was written, or who we fought in the War of 1812... At least most kids around here know what the Civil War was all about, mostly because a sizable piece of the population seems to think it's still happening. :p

Most of us learned about George Washington, Abe Lincol nb, and the like during elementary school. Immigrants hav not gone to elementary school in this country. It is not a slam against immigrants.

When I think of the most insanely ignorant people I've met in this life, all of them were 100% American born and raised.

I don't think the immigrants are insanely ignorant. I think they simply have not been exposed to the same learnings as people who have lived all their lives in a country.

If I were to move to a foreign country as an adult I doubt I would know as much about that country's history as someone who grew up there.

People that are born and raised in this country don't know many things that they should. Stuff that me and you take for granted that we know... like where the ATLANTIC OCEAN is, and who was president during the Civil War, a lot of people don't care to know. No one has any kind of urge to learn these days it seems, it cuts into their American Idol time. It's sad really. If I were to move to another country I would learn absolutly everything that I could before going there, and indeed I did that before I came to Korea. I learned about the cities and culture and a little bit of the history. It seems that not many others did the same thing, as they are totally oblivious to simple things even after being here for one, two and three years.

If you asked me who Winston Churchill was, I could tell you. You ask most other people my age, I gurantee they couldnt. He's not just an important figure in the UK, but in world history really. His name should at least ring a bell. It is beyond me how 25% of people in that country don't even know who he is.

We as Americans are generally not as smart as other developed countries, and it shows daily. Even though we have everything we could ever need. Just about everyone has the internet. Friggin use it for something other than video games for a change. Read a damn book. Watch something educational on TV. If you stop learning you might as well just die because you're not growing as a person if you aren't learning.

End rant.

I don't think the immigrants are insanely ignorant.

I didn't mean to imply that you did. I'm just saying that while my exposure to immigrants has been relatively limited, all the people I've known that knew nothing of American history, etc., were all American born.

I think the reason for a lot of the ignorance is the teaching system itself. If people do not taught something at school, there are few who would bother to go and find out for themselves.
If you were born after, say, 1970, and were not taught the history of WW2 then you are unlikely to know much about Churchill or even Hitler.

I don't think the teaching system is too much to blame, although I think the perception that we can create a "one size fits all" teaching system is wrong. This is something we've realized in recent years, and most teachers now make an effort for more individualized and flexible curricula, now that we have recognized different styles of learning. I hope that the next generation is more enthusiastic about learning and doesn't become as apathetic as my generation and those before me because of the frankly boring nature of school in this country.

I happen to love learning, and I'd say I've learned about a million times more on my own than I have in school. I wish everyone else was so enthusiastic.

I happen to love learning, and I'd say I've learned about a million times more on my own than I have in school. I wish everyone else was so enthusiastic.

Agreed.

I don't fully blame the educational system itself, most places are short teachers, and I know it's has to be hard sometimes to cater to every single induvidual. However the students need to take it upon themselves to learn things on their own as well.

http://www.picturesforsadchildren.com/questions/48.gif

I thought at the time, and still do, that many, if not most, of these test-takers were foreign born or newly arrived immigrants. I have a hard time believing that the US born -and -raised could not identify Lincoln as the 16 Prez or that the CW was fought between the North and South; not the US and Japan as some kids answered.

At least, I HOPE so.

I thought at the time, and still do, that many, if not most, of these test-takers were foreign born or newly arrived immigrants. I have a hard time believing that the US born -and -raised could not identify Lincoln as the 16 Prez or that the CW was fought between the North and South; not the US and Japan as some kids answered.

At least, I HOPE so.

No way Ren. I graduated high school in 1995 and i went to several different school districts from grades 6-12 and i can assure you,,,,,social science is not pushed at all in school. I remember in one school district they would have your subjects listed on the report card..the name of the class and teacher...even the room number..... the lay out of the report card was as follows...........

Listed was Math,English,Science,what second language you needed to taking at the time (from grades 9-12 you had to take your choice of a second language.. could be Russian,German,French,or spanish..... I decided to take French all four years for the easy A...i should of taken Spanish)

and a space...

then they had your electives like Art,Metal Shop,Home economics,and later on in my high school life,even seen "parenting 101" enter as a choice....

then they had a space,

and then listed gym,and your deportment grade (deportment was your behavior grade. Our school was based on a demerit system. the more you got,the worse your punishment was. You started at 100.... the amount of demerits minus that 200 was your deportment grade.. For even the casual detention getter it was an easy 90-92 percent..... mine was usually in the 60s even plummeting to the low 30s one semester) and your Physical education grade..

then a space

and what ever social science you were taking at the time was listed all by its lonesome...didnt even have a teacher or room number... just the name of the class... for example am. history...geography...civics...what ever it was according to your grade.

It was not listed up top with the other "major" subjects just listed down below it was listed like it was a last minute ad on.... I remember some of my friends telling and convincing their parents that it was a computer clitch and didnt mean anything....

One would think this format would of been a one time occurrence.. but I was there two years.. that is 6 report cards per year for two years... 12 report cards int total... the format was the same style for all 12 report cards i received... (actually i only got 11... one time in my junior year i never recieved one for 4th semester.... I never inquired and pretty much looked at it as a blessing and left it alone..... I did receive a 5th semester report card and my grades for 4th semester were listed in the appropriate spot)

I had the luck to have a really mean and strict teacher in 7th grade. That American history class was super hard and taught really really well as the teacher was tough as a college professor. It peaked my interest in social science and even lead me to getting a political science degree..

If that one teacher not been there I might of never shown an interest in an other wise subject the schools today care nothing about today and I might be up there like i am sure alot of my classmates today not being able to place new york on a map or not knowing who fought in the civil war.

I think the reason for a lot of the ignorance is the teaching system itself. If people do not taught something at school, there are few who would bother to go and find out for themselves.
If you were born after, say, 1970, and were not taught the history of WW2 then you are unlikely to know much about Churchill or even Hitler.


When you were born doesn't make a difference,if someone isn't going to take the time to school themselves by picking a book and reading up on something then that's their problem,not the school systems.
I for one was born in 1976 and all my history classes from 7th to 12th grades had whole sections devoted to WWI and WWII and other history making wars.

No way Ren. I graduated high school in 1995 and i went to several different school districts from grades 6-12 and i can assure you,,,,,social science is not pushed at all in school. I remember in one school district they would have your subjects listed on the report card..the name of the class and teacher...even the room number..... the lay out of the report card was as follows...........

Listed was Math,English,Science,what second language you needed to taking at the time (from grades 9-12 you had to take your choice of a second language.. could be Russian,German,French,or spanish..... I decided to take French all four years for the easy A...i should of taken Spanish)

and a space...

then they had your electives like Art,Metal Shop,Home economics,and later on in my high school life,even seen "parenting 101" enter as a choice....

then they had a space,

and then listed gym,and your deportment grade (deportment was your behavior grade. Our school was based on a demerit system. the more you got,the worse your punishment was. You started at 100.... the amount of demerits minus that 200 was your deportment grade.. For even the casual detention getter it was an easy 90-92 percent..... mine was usually in the 60s even plummeting to the low 30s one semester) and your Physical education grade..

then a space

and what ever social science you were taking at the time was listed all by its lonesome...didnt even have a teacher or room number... just the name of the class... for example am. history...geography...civics...what ever it was according to your grade.

It was not listed up top with the other "major" subjects just listed down below it was listed like it was a last minute ad on.... I remember some of my friends telling and convincing their parents that it was a computer clitch and didnt mean anything....

One would think this format would of been a one time occurrence.. but I was there two years.. that is 6 report cards per year for two years... 12 report cards int total... the format was the same style for all 12 report cards i received... (actually i only got 11... one time in my junior year i never recieved one for 4th semester.... I never inquired and pretty much looked at it as a blessing and left it alone..... I did receive a 5th semester report card and my grades for 4th semester were listed in the appropriate spot)

I had the luck to have a really mean and strict teacher in 7th grade. That American history class was super hard and taught really really well as the teacher was tough as a college professor. It peaked my interest in social science and even lead me to getting a political science degree..

If that one teacher not been there I might of never shown an interest in an other wise subject the schools today care nothing about today and I might be up there like i am sure alot of my classmates today not being able to place new york on a map or not knowing who fought in the civil war.

I'm sorry to hear that, LF.

Perhaps it's different in Indiana.

In the 4th grade, it's a requirement for all
Hoosier students to take a year-long class in Indiana history.
The kids learn all about George Rogers Clark, the pioneers, the making of linsey-woolsey and lye soap, James Whitcomb Riley, Indiana's role in the CW, etc etc.

In the fifth grade they are required to take a year long class in American history. This is again repeated in the 8th grade.

Once the kids get in high school, history/social science of some kind is stressed. My own son is taking a modern European history course--he's a freshman. Next year he plans to take another US history class. He also is taking a current events class. Of course he's enrolled in the college prep cirriculum.


Thank goodness the teachers here are of the mind that those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

The biggest problem i have with the present system is how we are taught to be specialists instead of getting a broader education.
When I was at school i was very good at maths and science but hopeless at history and geography, and so in later schooling i went on and specialized in the science subjects, eventually attending college where i did a science degree that really concentrated on just one subject.
The thing is I was always good at science, what i really needed to be taught was history and geography!!

In high school there isn't a lot of choice as far as the "core" subjects though... So I don't think anyone gets away with not taking a certain amount of science, english, math, and social science classes. Even in college, there are a lot of requirements. The first two years are mostly basic classes in which the requirements are similar for everyone; your major just influences your choices of class within each requirement. I suppose at some places, like tech schools, it might be a little more specialized, but in general I think the emphasis is mor on a "well rounded" education.

....lead me to getting a political science degree..

Just an observation and not a criticism LiquidFork......but I find it interesting that a person with a political science degree would use the phrase --

""One would think this format would of been a one time occurrence..""

...instead of the phrase -- "One would think this format would have been a one time occurrence".

And that the same person would use the phrase --

"It peaked my interest in social science...""

...instead of the phrase -- "It piqued my interest in social science...".

Just seems odd to me.

Carry on.

You're such a smug, superior fellow, Freethinker.
(You're demonstrably helpful, too. It's so nice of you to point out Liquidfork's spelling/word usage errors.)

Would it be equally helpful of me to point out your glaring punctuation errors above (as well as your starting a sentence with a conjunction, flirting with run-on sentences, and then finishing with a pair of fragments instead of proper sentences)?

No, I think not.
Such behavior on my part could be construed as ungentlemanly and boorish.

:cool:

You're such a smug, superior fellow, Freethinker.
(You're demonstrably helpful, too. It's so nice of you to point out Liquidfork's spelling/word usage errors.)

Would it be equally helpful of me to point out your glaring punctuation errors above (as well as your starting a sentence with a conjunction, flirting with run-on sentences, and then finishing with a pair of fragments instead of proper sentences)?

No, I think not.
Such behavior on my part could be construed as ungentlemanly and boorish.

:cool:

lol

pwned!

i'm not surprised about this. some people think that the jewish holocaust never happened.

This is what happens when you have unfettered immigrtion. Immigrants do not have the same interest in the history of their adopted country as do those whose ancestors have lived there for generations.

After the breakup of its colonial empire, Great Britain allowed residents of its former colonies to emmigrate to the Sceptered Isle. These people were not raised on stories of England's, Scotland's and Wales' heroes. They knew nothing of Agincourt, Crechy, The Field of the Cloth of Gold, Salsbury Plain, the border marchers, the Stone of Scone or any of the other things that British children had absorbed with their mother's milk.

The same thing happens in the U.S., immigrants have no knowledge of Bunker Hill, The Alamo, Appomatox Courthouse or the heroes of American history.
My teacher was reading over my shoulder and said "Cause nothing you learn in school is relevant."

Followed up by saying, "Sarcasism doesn't work very well over the net, of course."

I think she has a point.

... I think she has a point.


She might, but does her hair cover it?

:woohoo:

She might, but does her hair cover it?

:woohoo:
God no.

I retract my previous post, I had to say that cause she was still watching me. She was a sub and creepy.