Jack Kevorkian (pronounced (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Pronunciation) /kɛˈvɔrkiːɛn/[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Kevorkian#_note-0)) (born in May 1928 [2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Kevorkian#_note-1)) is a controversial American (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) pathologist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathologist). He is most noted for publicly championing a terminal patient's right to die (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_die) via physician-assisted suicide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physician-assisted_suicide); he claims to have assisted at least 130 patients to that end. He famously said that "dying is not a crime."
Between 1999 and 2007, Kevorkian served eight years of a 10-to-25-year prison sentence for second-degree murder. He was released on June 1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/June_1), 2007 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007), on parole due to his failing health.[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Kevorkian#_note-2)


I am curios as to my fellow posters opinions on this man.

Do you believe it is ok for a fellow like him to go ahead and aide the death of a loved one who is suffering an incurable disease/ailment?


I personally would like to see a system installed to help some who suffer at their final moments and who could find euthanasia as an ample way out.

I have recently have a few people close to my heart. One 23 and one 32 who have died a slow and mercifulless death in the hands of modern medicine.
I would like to have had the chance of self inflilcted death- if you will-available to those so desperate in need.


What do you think?

PS. Keep it real or fuck off.

I personally would like to see a system installed to help some who suffer at their final moments and who could find euthanasia as an ample way out.
I absolutely agree. I'm very curious as to what possible arguments people will give against it.

PS. Keep it real or fuck off.
:D I like it when people say blunt things like that.

I'm a blunt kinda person at times. Can't help it.

;)

I absolutely agree. I'm very curious as to what possible arguments people will give against it.




Me too. I'm hoping someone steps up.

I think that it should be regulated in the following way. Not everyone should be allowed an easy suicide, just cause they say they're suffering. There should be some standard of decreased functionality after which it is acceptable to claim that one's life is no longer worth living. At that point, I think it's ok to have an assisted suicide.

I've long maintained that we treat horses better than we do our fellow humans. Most folks have experienced or heard of putting an animal down because of the severity of the illness / injury and see the rationale behind it.
Dr. Kevorkian recognized the need and chose to follow it through. Unfortunately, society is not there yet, hence he wound up in prison.

It should absolutely be allowed...under certain circumstances...like in a veggie state with no hope of recovery, terminal with unimaginable pain, etc...

Without quality, life is not worth living. This coming from someone who has seen loved ones wither away in front of me. When i was very young, the last memory of my great-grandfather was him on his hospital bed, unable to talk, holding his forefinger against his temple with thumb extended, pantomiming pulling a trigger on a gun. Euthanasia is a blessing, in some circumstances.

Havok
I think everyone here has been put in the same situation, and watch a loved one needlessly suffer. I'm all for PAA, and I tip my hat to Jach for saying what had to be said, and doing something about it. If I determined myself (medically) to be a non-productive member of society and have no quality of life, I surely dont want to be a burden on anyone else. Life sucks if you cant have fun.

I'm not sure society should EVER put ourselves in the position of judging someone else's quality of life. Until we get so advanced we can read people's thoughts, pulling the plug on an unconscience person is still murder... no matter how lofty one's intentions.

In the case of HaVoK's great grandfather, a person who's capable of requesting euthanasia to end their suffering is a whole 'nuther issue. With the family's blessings, I think it should be available. However, I'd still hate to have to live with the fact that I voted to pull his plug for the rest of my life.

SMW

Not everyone should be allowed an easy suicide, just cause they say they're suffering.
Does that mean you think that people shouldn't be allowed to kill themselves? I hate the idea that people who attempt suicide are then put on "suicide watch" to make sure they don't do it. Why MAKE someone live if they are that miserable?

I'm not sure society should EVER put ourselves in the position of judging someone else's quality of life. Until we get so advanced we can read people's thoughts, pulling the plug on an unconscience person is still murder... no matter how lofty one's intentions.
It's "unconscious", and I would like to ask: What if a person has a living will and says, therein, that they'd like to die if they were ever in whatever situation they're in, and, none of the family members want this person to die. Would you follow the will, or the family's wishes?

It's "unconscious", and I would like to ask: What if a person has a living will and says, therein, that they'd like to die if they were ever in whatever situation they're in, and, none of the family members want this person to die. Would you follow the will, or the family's wishes?

Thx for the spellcheck.

When someone is admitted to a hospital, one of the first questions asked is, "Do they have a living will?" If they do, the hospital is responsible for following the person's wishes, not the family.

Here's what happened to a close friend of mine. He was admitted thru the ER suffering from severe respiratory distress, later diagnosed as double pneumonia. The decision was made (by the doctors) to have him put on a respirator. He later came down with sepsis (blood infection), was in grave condition and a chaplain was called in to talk to the family. His brother told everyone that he had discussed living wills with him, and that they had both agreed they wouldn't want to live if they had to be put on machines. The family balked at the idea of taking him off the breathing machine since there was a chance he would get better. He was 42 years old... and recovered fully from his close brush with death.

If you don't want to be 'kept alive' by machines, by all means, write up a living will. But keep in mind you'll never know how much will you have to live until you reach a critical point. I shudder to think of what would've happened to my friend if he had put his 'wishes' in writing.

SMW

MY LIVING WILL

Last night my sister and I were sitting in the den and I said to her, 'I never want to live in a vegetative state, dependent on some machine and fluids from a bottle to keep me alive. That would be no quality of life at all, If that ever happens, just pull the plug.'

So she got up, unplugged the computer, and threw out my wine.

She's such a bitch.

;)

Oregon's right-to-die law (http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0312/p03s02-ussc.html)

Dr. Kevorkian should never have been jailed for doing what he knows is right and what the famileis of the sufferers also know is right.

I think that it should be regulated in the following way. Not everyone should be allowed an easy suicide, just cause they say they're suffering.

What about 'lifers' or death row convicts who may rather die to end their miserable life. They really don't have a life worth living now do they?
I'd say assist them, as many of them that want it.

What about the elder? There are many who at age 70 and up, that are left alone in nursing homes or alone without their spouse or kids. Daily they die inside of loniless and their failing body and they just want to lay down and go to sleep forever.
They lived their life and are at peace, and maybe even looking forward to the angel of death to sweep them up and yet are faced to drag out this sad thing called life because their heart beats and hasn't weakened enough.

I've long maintained that we treat horses better than we do our fellow humans. Most folks have experienced or heard of putting an animal down because of the severity of the illness / injury and see the rationale behind it.
Dr. Kevorkian recognized the need and chose to follow it through. Unfortunately, society is not there yet, hence he wound up in prison.

I agree soo much Little E. Too bad we humans don't a 'vet' that would put us to sleep. Instead we get to watch our loved ones wither away, screaming in pain because the morphine isn't cutting it anymore.

Dr. Kevorkian let his noriety get in his way, but he was on the right path. Cheers to hoping society wakes and grows up a bit.

I'm not sure society should EVER put ourselves in the position of judging someone else's quality of life. Until we get so advanced we can read people's thoughts, pulling the plug on an unconscience person is still murder... no matter how lofty one's intentions.
You wouldn't have to put yourself in the position to judge another. It's not your right anyway.
If someone is given a sentence of death, *ie terminal cancer* etc, it is their choice alone to make and should be given an out easier and less painful then what the medical field gives them now.




In the case of HaVoK's great grandfather, a person who's capable of requesting euthanasia to end their suffering is a whole 'nuther issue. With the family's blessings, I think it should be available. However, I'd still hate to have to live with the fact that I voted to pull his plug for the rest of my life.

SMW Again, with his grandpa's actions and suffering, he was making it clear he wished to die. If it were possible, they *the docs* could pull the plug on him/injection, whatever, without the families having to do it.
You wouldn't live the rest of your life feeling upset you pulled the plug. You'd live knowing he didn't suffer unnecessarily and it was his wish to go at the time. I think it's selfish for us to hold on to a loved one while they are in pain just for our own piece of mind.

My gram was very sick and in the hospital. She was my favoritest person in the world! She raised me for the most part and I loved her with all my heart. She asked me to put a pillow over her head and hold it. Damn right I would have, if I wouldn't have spent the rest of my life in jail. I would of because I loved her and without a drop of anger or hatred or remorse for doing it either.


The family balked at the idea of taking him off the breathing machine since there was a chance he would get better. He was 42 years old... and recovered fully from his close brush with death.

If you don't want to be 'kept alive' by machines, by all means, write up a living will. But keep in mind you'll never know how much will you have to live until you reach a critical point. I shudder to think of what would've happened to my friend if he had put his 'wishes' in writing.

SMW

I agree with you on the living will, everyone should put their wishes in writing.

Your friend still had a chance of getting better. What about those on machines, now and still, who have no chance of getting better? What the hell is the sense of leaving them hooked up when it would be better *esp. for the family's emotional and financial side* to be set free.

Oregon's right-to-die law (http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0312/p03s02-ussc.html)
Thank you for the link Fran. Here's hoping the rest of the states can catch up and allow this system to work.

Under carefully proscribed laws, such as Oregon's, most doctors say it is ethical to help people diagnosed as terminally ill take their own lives, according to a 2005 national survey of 1,088 physicians.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0312/csmimg/p3a.gif


Dr. Kevorkian should never have been jailed for doing what he knows is right and what the famileis of the sufferers also know is right.

Amen Seester!

I myself have a living will, and I agree wholeheartedly with Imp and ES on this.

I reckon also that if I am ever old and infirm enough that I can't take adequate care of myself (and before I allow myself to be put in a nursing home, where somebody will have to feed me and change my diapers, etc), I will just pull the plug on myself.

I'll just have to maintain control of the handguns and/or the shotgun is all, while I've still got my wits about me.

:cool:

I think under certain medical circumstances it should be an option. Then is no point in letting someone continue to suffer.

Does that mean you think that people shouldn't be allowed to kill themselves? I hate the idea that people who attempt suicide are then put on "suicide watch" to make sure they don't do it. Why MAKE someone live if they are that miserable?

First of all, there are a few things to look at. Sometimes becoming suicidal can be the result of certain medications. The person should be stopped and taken off whatever medication they were put on in this case. Killing people that are not even in their normal state of mind because of medications that were handed out is not the right thing to do.

Also, you have a good amount of younger people that would possibly just get depressed about their parents yelling at them. You can't just give it to anyone especially if they are not even grown up. Some people take a while to wake up and get somewhere with life. I don't think it should be an easy way out for just anyone. If life is really that terrible then they can do it themselves. If you can't kill yourself then you must not want to die badly enough.

I think under certain medical circumstances it should be an option. Then is no point in letting someone continue to suffer.



First of all, there are a few things to look at. Sometimes becoming suicidal can be the result of certain medications. The person should be stopped and taken off whatever medication they were put on in this case. Killing people that are not even in their normal state of mind because of medications that were handed out is not the right thing to do.

Also, you have a good amount of younger people that would possibly just get depressed about their parents yelling at them. You can't just give it to anyone especially if they are not even grown up. Some people take a while to wake up and get somewhere with life. I don't think it should be an easy way out for just anyone. If life is really that terrible then they can do it themselves. If you can't kill yourself then you must not want to die badly enough.
Of course I don't want anyone killing someone who is perfectly capable of killing themselves. I never said anything like that. I just asked rated R if his opinion extended to those who are able to do it themselves.

I

Also, you have a good amount of younger people that would possibly just get depressed about their parents yelling at them. You can't just give it to anyone especially if they are not even grown up. Some people take a while to wake up and get somewhere with life. I don't think it should be an easy way out for just anyone. If life is really that terrible then they can do it themselves. If you can't kill yourself then you must not want to die badly enough.
I agree. Teens should be exempt from it, only for the main reason 99% of them talk about suicide, but few have the balls to do it.

Suicide should be reserved for those deserving of it. Like Dark says, those who can carry thru with it don't need it.

editted for clarification.

There is a difference between what Kevorkian does and relieving people of suffering by aiding them in leaving this mortal coil.

Dr. Kevorkian, not a medical doctor as many people think but a pathologist, helps weak minded people kill themselves. Many of his victims did not have incurable or painful conditions and would have been better served with psychiatric help. If he helped only those with incurable diseases I might have a better opinion of him.

Death with dignity, Frogger.
Kevorkian is a hero that most Americans supported and still support. It's not the governments role to be involved in the decisions that we make determining our own destiny, life or death.

For all you holy rollers out there that don't like euthanasia in these cases..... Butt out, it's none of your business, let others go to hell if they so choose, you can't save them all, so quit trying.

I, by the way, don't think a god would penalize someone that suffered from an incurable, painful disease that was killing them anyway. A god would have more compassion than that and would understand.

I, by the way, don't think a god would penalize someone that suffered from an incurable, painful disease that was killing them anyway. A god would have more compassion than that and would understand.
Agreed. If God does exist, then certainly he/she wouldnt begrudge someone putting an end to their misery, imo.

There is a difference between what Kevorkian does and relieving people of suffering by aiding them in leaving this mortal coil.

Dr. Kevorkian, not a medical doctor as many people think but a pathologist, helps weak minded people kill themselves. Many of his victims did not have incurable or painful conditions and would have been better served with psychiatric help. If he helped only those with incurable diseases I might have a better opinion of him.

A Pathologist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathologist) is, in fact, a medical doctor.

You wouldn't have to put yourself in the position to judge another. It's not your right anyway.
If someone is given a sentence of death, *ie terminal cancer* etc, it is their choice alone to make and should be given an out easier and less painful then what the medical field gives them now.

I totally agree with the first part of your statement, Imp. Likewise, it's not anyone's right to judge another person's 'quality of life' either. Might be 'not worth living' to you, but that doesn't mean that's necessarily how that person sees it. Life is precious and sometimes even someone who's healthy and says they wouldn't want to live under certain conditions change their mind when faced with the life or death struggle. It's just not our place to judge.

Again, with his grandpa's actions and suffering, he was making it clear he wished to die. If it were possible, they *the docs* could pull the plug on him/injection, whatever, without the families having to do it.
You wouldn't live the rest of your life feeling upset you pulled the plug. You'd live knowing he didn't suffer unnecessarily and it was his wish to go at the time. I think it's selfish for us to hold on to a loved one while they are in pain just for our own piece of mind.

My gram was very sick and in the hospital. She was my favoritest person in the world! She raised me for the most part and I loved her with all my heart. She asked me to put a pillow over her head and hold it. Damn right I would have, if I wouldn't have spent the rest of my life in jail. I would of because I loved her and without a drop of anger or hatred or remorse for doing it either.

I experienced watching someone die when my own sweet mother passed away 4 years ago. In Nov, she was a vital, energetic, happy person who enjoyed every minute of her life, regardless of the problems she suffered due to age. In Jan, she was diagnosed with a tumor on her bladder, underwent surgery in Feb and died in Mar, at the age of 89. She never once expressed a wish to die... although toward the end, she said she knew her time was coming. I don't know how I would've felt if she'd been like your gram and begged me to help her go. I'm sure it would've been a heart-wrenching experience I would never have forgotten.


I agree with you on the living will, everyone should put their wishes in writing.

Your friend still had a chance of getting better. What about those on machines, now and still, who have no chance of getting better? What the hell is the sense of leaving them hooked up when it would be better *esp. for the family's emotional and financial side* to be set free.

Tough call. I personally hope to never have people standing over me trying to decide whether or not to put me out of my misery because it would be cheaper than keeping me alive. Some people say those in a coma or vegetative state don't know what's going on around them... some say they do. Some people stay in that state until they die... but some people miraculously open their eyes and come back. Tough call indeed.

I don't pretend to know the answer, but can't help but feel it's not something we can 'legalize' without some serious guidelines being put into place.

A Pathologist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathologist) is, in fact, a medical doctor.

But not one all that interested in the Hippocratic Oath.

Imp,

If someone is in chronic pain or has a terminal disease or even a disease that is crippling either physically or emotionally I can agree that euthanasia might be a good idea, or at least an idea worthy of consideration. If those were the people Kevorkian helped end their lives I would have no problem with his actions. That is not the case though. He helped people end their lives who could have bern easily helped and who did not need to kill themselves.

Death with dignity, Frogger.
Kevorkian is a hero that most Americans supported and still support.

They may support his ideas generally, but I don't think they support or supported him that much. Like a lot of people who are really into one particular issue, he crossed the line far past what most people are comfortable with.

But not one all that interested in the Hippocratic Oath.

My dad was a pathologist. :rant:

I would want to be kept alive. People in comas have been known to wake up. I saw one guy on TV who woke up after 20 years!

My dad was a pathologist. :rant:

Then you know he was more involved with investigating dead bodies than curing disease or healing wounds. I didn't mean to suggest that pathologists are not good people but there emphasis is different from that of most other MDs.

Then you know he was more involved with investigating dead bodies than curing disease or healing wounds. I didn't mean to suggest that pathologists are not good people but there emphasis is different from that of most other MDs.

Actually the only time he did autopsies was when he was covering for the local medical examiner. He spent most of his time in the lab figuring out what form of cancer people had and stuff like that. So he was very much involved in the healing process and very much cared about the hippocratic oath.

Sound like he was a very interesting fellow. My father was an environmental water quality chemist for TVA. Just because they often dealt with "after the fact" analysis, does not make their work any less important (or relative).

BTW - nice to see you back here Lionel... how's the "new addition" doing?

Just because they often dealt with "after the fact" analysis, does not make their work any less important (or relative).

Well actually my point was that most of what he did was "during the fact" analysis. Like for instance if you have a biopsy on some lump they send it to the pathologist to figure out whether or not it's cancer, and if it cancer, what kind it is so they know how to treat it.

BTW - nice to see you back here Lionel... how's the "new addition" doing?

Growing big and getting into things. But as cute as ever.

They may support his ideas generally, but I don't think they support or supported him that much. Like a lot of people who are really into one particular issue, he crossed the line far past what most people are comfortable with.


He spoke to a crowd of roughly 4,900 at the University of Florida basketball arena shortly after getting out. Not bad I'd say.


Welcome back dear. Give the baby a hug for me.;)

There is a difference between what Kevorkian does and relieving people of suffering by aiding them in leaving this mortal coil.
The people who were his patients might not agree, and ultimately it's their opinion, not yours, that counts.

Actually taking advantage of people who are at a temporary low point rather than counseling them to seek help is not doing them a favor or a good turn. Some of the people he helped kill themselves might have been making rational decisions but some were not and he should not have counseled them to do so.