Well, folks, I've finally done it. Despite my still-substantial support for the man, my vote in the 2008 primaries will not, in fact, be for Ron Paul.

My reasoning? Paul is, at this stage, very much a protest vote in the vein of Kucinich or Gravel. At one point, I thought that he might have a shot at getting the GOP nomination amid a field of lackluster candidates, but New Hampshire disencumbered me of that view. I still maintain that he'd make the best POTUS out of this field of mostly nutcases and fruitcakes, but I cannot, in good conscience, cast a protest vote in my first Presidential primary when I can vote for someone who, while perhaps not quite as in line with my views, would make an equally good President and actually has a shot at getting there.

Yes, folks, you can count me an Obama supporter at this point.

Obama is by no means perfect. I'm not all that enthusiastic about his health care plans, and I still have some doubts about him. However, overall, I have a lot more confidence in him than I do Hillary, and he seems libertarian enough for me to vote for him in good conscience. I further urge any of you looking to cast a protest vote--Paul, Gravel, Kucinich, or the like--vote for someone, while maybe not quite as awesome as your candidate of choice, who A) has a shot, and B) whose nomination would prevent a guaranteed 24 years straight of a total of two families of in the White House.

I look forward to more years of Paul in the House, and perhaps Obama in that whitest of houses. And further, if this country can vote a black man with the name Barack Hussein Obama into the office of the chief executive, I will have a lot more faith in this country than I did in 2004, where it was Large Asshole (D) against Gigantic Asshole (R-inc), and Gigantic Asshole won.

Why not vote for both?

Why not vote for both?
Or I could vote for everyone! Then nobody would be sad!

Seriously, though, exactly how is it you propose I do that?

They're primaries. Each party holds one. Go to the Democratic primary and vote for Obama. Go to the Republican primary and vote for Paul.

They're primaries. Each party holds one. Go to the Democratic primary and vote for Obama. Go to the Republican primary and vote for Paul.
That's patently illegal.

Ah, after reading a bit, seems that you can't vote in both primaries. You have to pick one. Oh well.

They're primaries. Each party holds one. Go to the Democratic primary and vote for Obama. Go to the Republican primary and vote for Paul.
I don't think you can do that, even in states where there are open primaries.

Ah, beat me to it.

Why does Iowa and New Hampshire get to decide who the hell we vote for anyway? LOL

Well, Obama is my second choice as well. I still hold out a little bit of hope though for Paul. And hey, if not this year, then RP 2012, lol.

This is pretty funny.
Because of the primary debacle here in Michigan, I may be voting for Ron Paul in the Republican primary.

Even after the latest revelations you'd still consider Paul the best candidate?

Sinbad would be as effective as paul.

Yes, folks, you can count me an Obama supporter at this point.

Obama is by no means perfect. I'm not all that enthusiastic about his health care plans, and I still have some doubts about him.
You mean his business-issues (http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4111483&page=1)? :rolleyes:

*

"In sharp contrast to his tough talk about ethics reform in government, Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., approached a well-known Illinois political fixer under active federal investigation, Antoin "Tony" Rezko, for "advice" as he sought to find a way to buy a house shortly after being elected to the United States Senate.

Rezko had been widely reported to be under investigation by the U.S. attorney and the FBI at the time Obama contacted him and has since been indicted on corruption charges by a federal grand jury in a case that prosecutors say involves bribes, kickbacks and "efforts to illegally obtain millions of dollars."

Well, Obama is my second choice as well. I still hold out a little bit of hope though for Paul. And hey, if not this year, then RP 2012, lol.
Do any of you Paul/Obama-fans feel somewhat-conflicted (http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/10/paul.newsletters/index.html?section=cnn_topstories&eref=yahoo)??!!! :rolleyes:

Do any of you Paul/Obama-fans feel somewhat-conflicted (http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/10/paul.newsletters/index.html?section=cnn_topstories&eref=yahoo)??!!! :rolleyes:

No.

Well, folks, I've finally done it. Despite my still-substantial support for the man, my vote in the 2008 primaries will not, in fact, be for Ron Paul.

My reasoning? Paul is, at this stage, very much a protest vote in the vein of Kucinich or Gravel. At one point, I thought that he might have a shot at getting the GOP nomination amid a field of lackluster candidates, but New Hampshire disencumbered me of that view. I still maintain that he'd make the best POTUS out of this field of mostly nutcases and fruitcakes, but I cannot, in good conscience, cast a protest vote in my first Presidential primary when I can vote for someone who, while perhaps not quite as in line with my views, would make an equally good President and actually has a shot at getting there.

Yes, folks, you can count me an Obama supporter at this point.

Obama is by no means perfect. I'm not all that enthusiastic about his health care plans, and I still have some doubts about him. However, overall, I have a lot more confidence in him than I do Hillary, and he seems libertarian enough for me to vote for him in good conscience. I further urge any of you looking to cast a protest vote--Paul, Gravel, Kucinich, or the like--vote for someone, while maybe not quite as awesome as your candidate of choice, who A) has a shot, and B) whose nomination would prevent a guaranteed 24 years straight of a total of two families of in the White House.

I look forward to more years of Paul in the House, and perhaps Obama in that whitest of houses. And further, if this country can vote a black man with the name Barack Hussein Obama into the office of the chief executive, I will have a lot more faith in this country than I did in 2004, where it was Large Asshole (D) against Gigantic Asshole (R-inc), and Gigantic Asshole won.

*********************************
Hmm,both men { Obama and Paul } are viewed as rather Anti-American
candidates.The Blame America FIRST crowd.That's not what Red
State voters wanna hear.
As far as lackluster,I hazard to point out,the entire Republican field,
with even Paul is far more an intelligent choice than the Dems.
Lest one furgit the Dems thrive on the dumb vote.
Dems love to exploit voters based on their interest groups.
Whether Gays,Atheists,Minorities,schmuck Union stooges,etc.

I'm surprised to not hear about the censorship of Ron Paul by Fox new! Another reason to boycott Fox News. Fair and Balanced, yeh right!:rolleyes: I already voted for Hillary in the primaries. My ballot is in the mail. I will vote for Obama if he is the Democrat nominee but I think Hillary has a better chance at winning. She is much more experieced!! The Republicans would tear Obama apart. Do you really think a black man named Barrack Hussein Obama can be elected president of the USA? I mean that name alone is enough to make a lot of people not vote for him. Oh, and he is black. That is not a problem with me I would love a black president if he is qualified but unfortunatley rascism is still a huge problem in this country and some people will not vote for a black person. Sad but true. I think Billary, oops Hillary has a much better chance. She has already been drug through the mud and is still alive and kicking! I still hope she will pick Bill Richardson as her running mate! Vote Democrat in 2008!

Obama is by no means perfect. I'm not all that enthusiastic about his health care plans, and I still have some doubts about him.I also have problems with his health care plan, though probably for different reasons than you. Most likely you think it goes too far while I think it doesn't go far enough. At this stage, however, I'm not sure how big of a deal this is. Congress will write health care legislation, not the President, and I think we're doomed to incremental reform no matter who is elected.However, overall, I have a lot more confidence in him than I do Hillary, and he seems libertarian enough for me to vote for him in good conscience. I further urge any of you looking to cast a protest vote--Paul, Gravel, Kucinich, or the like--vote for someone, while maybe not quite as awesome as your candidate of choice, who A) has a shot, and B) whose nomination would prevent a guaranteed 24 years straight of a total of two families of in the White House.Kucinich was my first choice but stands no chance of winning. Hillary is the worst of the Democratic contenders and while I like many of Edwards' positions he comes across as too much of a fast-talking lawyer for me (and probably a lot of other people too). This leaves Obama as my candidate by default but thankfully he has quite a few good attributes. I realize I might find myself several years from now regretting (as many Bush supporters have found themselves doing) my support of a relatively inexperienced candidate. But given the alternatives he's the best choice I can make -- so there.I look forward to more years of Paul in the House, and perhaps Obama in that whitest of houses. And further, if this country can vote a black man with the name Barack Hussein Obama into the office of the chief executive, I will have a lot more faith in this country than I did in 2004, where it was Large Asshole (D) against Gigantic Asshole (R-inc), and Gigantic Asshole won.I've pondered whether the "What will it tell the world about America if we elect Obama?" argument is a sound one to make and I still can't decide. It might be a good reason to vote for someone but probably not. Still, that doesn't matter to me as I made up my mind some time ago.

However, overall, I have a lot more confidence in him than I do Hillary, and he seems libertarian enough for me to vote for him in good conscience.
While I understand your switch from Paul to another candidate. I would not consider Obama to be even remotely close to a libertarian in his platform, I would rate him closer to socialist than libertarian.

Paul is, at this stage, very much a protest vote in the vein of Kucinich or Gravel. At one point, I thought that he might have a shot at getting the GOP nomination amid a field of lackluster candidates, but New Hampshire disencumbered me of that view. I still maintain that he'd make the best POTUS out of this field of mostly nutcases and fruitcakes, but I cannot, in good conscience, cast a protest vote in my first Presidential primary when I can vote for someone who, while perhaps not quite as in line with my views, would make an equally good President and actually has a shot at getting there.
WTF? you've never stuck me as a quitter:(

""....if this country can vote a black man with the name Barack Hussein Obama into the office of the chief executive....""

It can't. It won't.

I'd think the people in the highest echelons of the Democratic Party would realize that it would be political suicide to send forth a black person, who has associations with the Muslim religion, whose middle name is Hussein, whose last name is one letter different than Osama, as a candidate for president in a country where the voters are as racist and as ignorant (in terms of allowing things like people's middle name to affect their vote) as they are in America.

I would not consider Obama to be even remotely close to a libertarian in his platform, I would rate him closer to socialist than libertarian.

Of course you do.
Every Democrat is supposedly a "socialist" according to political hacks.

Even after the latest revelations you'd still consider Paul the best candidate?


If you were talking to me, I am not voting for Paul because he is the best candidate.

If you are interested in why I am voting for him, I wrote this to explain my reasoning (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/1/12/42419/0362/780/435531). So far I have gotten some very positive responses to the idea. Much better responses than Kos got with his idea to vote for Romney.

Of course you do.
Every Democrat is supposedly a "socialist" according to political hacks.
OK, then compare Obama's platform to both the socialist platform and the libertarian platform. Which one is Obama's "closest" to?

Socialist:

The Socialist Party stands for the abolition of every form of domination and exploitation, whether based on social class, gender, race/ethnicity, age, education, sexual orientation, or other characteristics.

We are committed to the transformation of capitalism through the creation of a democratic socialist society based on compassion, empathy, and respect as well as the development of new social structures. Socialism will establish a new social and economic order in which workers and community members will take responsibility for and control of their interpersonal relationships, their neighborhoods, their local government, and the production and distribution of all goods and services.

For these reasons we call for social ownership and democratic control of productive resources, for a guarantee to all of the right to participate in societal production, and to a fair share of society's product, in accordance with individual needs.

As we pursue a socialist transformation of society, we join with others in making radical demands on the existing system: demands that challenge the basic assumptions of a capitalist market economy while pointing the way to a new society. Although reforms will not in themselves bring about socialism, the fight for them will advance the cause by demonstrating the inherent limitations and injustice of the capitalist system. As we build the socialist movement, we organize around a platform committed to our common and interdependent struggles and aspirations.

Libertarian:

We, the members of the Libertarian Party, challenge the cult of the omnipotent state and defend the rights of the individual.

We hold that all individuals have the right to exercise sole dominion over their own lives, and have the right to live in whatever manner they choose, so long as they do not forcibly interfere with the equal right of others to live in whatever manner they choose.

Governments throughout history have regularly operated on the opposite principle, that the State has the right to dispose of the lives of individuals and the fruits of their labor. Even within the United States, all political parties other than our own grant to government the right to regulate the lives of individuals and seize the fruits of their labor without their consent.

We, on the contrary, deny the right of any government to do these things, and hold that where governments exist, they must not violate the rights of any individual: namely, (1) the right to life -- accordingly we support the prohibition of the initiation of physical force against others; (2) the right to liberty of speech and action -- accordingly we oppose all attempts by government to abridge the freedom of speech and press, as well as government censorship in any form; and (3) the right to property -- accordingly we oppose all government interference with private property, such as confiscation, nationalization, and eminent domain, and support the prohibition of robbery, trespass, fraud, and misrepresentation.

Since governments, when instituted, must not violate individual rights, we oppose all interference by government in the areas of voluntary and contractual relations among individuals. People should not be forced to sacrifice their lives and property for the benefit of others. They should be left free by government to deal with one another as free traders; and the resultant economic system, the only one compatible with the protection of individual rights, is the free market.

Obama:

High priorities: health care for all, ending the war in Iraq, social security
Abortion: Pro-choice
Capital Punishment: Supports capital punishment in certain cases
Education: Obama spports a new school construction program to improve crumbling schools. Supports recruitment of a “new generation” of teachers, improving teacher pay, and improvement in early childhood education. Opposes school vouchers. Has called for a “STEP UP” summer learning program for disadvantaged children through partnerships between community groups and schools. Supports increased funding for Head Start. Opposes reauthorization of the No Child Left Behind law until it undergoes reform. Supports merit pay for “master teachers” but opposes merit pay for teachers based on test outcomes.
“Our schools must prepare students not only to meet the demands of the global economy, but also help students take their place as committed and engaged citizens. It must ensure that all students have a quality education regardless of race, class, or background.” (www.barackobama.com (http://www.barackobama.com))
Energy/Environmental Issues: Obama pledges to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, with a goal of 80 percent by 2050, and make the U.S. a leaderin the effort to combat climate change by leading a new international global warming partnership. Supports implementing a cap-and-trade program to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. Pledges to invest $150 billion over the next 10 years to develop and implement “climate-friendly energy supplies, protect our existing manufacturing base and create millions of new jobs.” Pledges to double federal clean energy research spending. Supports efforts to reduce dependence on foreign oil, and to reduce oil consumption by 35 percent by 2030. Would require that 25 percent of electricitycome from renewable sources by 2025. (www.barackobama.com (http://www.barackobama.com))
Experience: Senator and attorney
Gay Marriage: Supports civil unions. Opposes gay marriage.
Health Care: Obama’s health care platform focuses on a new national health plan that covers the nation’s uninsured. The plan would guarantee eligibility, provide coverage similar to the federal employee health insurance program, offer “affordable” premiums, co-pays and deductibles; and allow enrollees to keep their coverage when they change jobs. He would introduce a requirement for all children to have health insurance and pledges to expand eligibility for Medicaid and the State Children’s Health Insurance Program (SCHIP). Businesses that do not provide insurance to their employees would be assessed a fee based on a percentage of their payroll. His plan would allow states to continue developing their own reform plans. He would also make employer health plans eligible for reimbursement of catastrophic costs provided the savings would be used to offset employee premiums. Obama also pledges to support disease prevention programs, promote quality and cost transparency and reform medical malpractice insurance.
Immigration: Obama upports comprehensive immigration reform legislation that combines increased border enforcement with a path to legal citizenship for illegal immigrants already living in the U.S.
The war in Iraq: Obama spoke out against the war in Iraq when he was a state senator in Illinois but was not in Congress when the vote to authorize the use of force was taken. Supports a plan to immediately begin troop withdrawal from Iraq at a pace of one or two brigades a month, to be completed by the end of 2008. Has called for a new constitutional convention in Iraq, to be convened with the United Nations. (www.barackobama.com (http://www.barackobama.com))
Social Security: Obama opposes privatization of Social Security. Has pledged to take steps to keep Social Security and Medicare solvent. Promises to amend federal bankruptcy laws to keep companies from choosing bankruptcy to avoid private pension obligations.Promises to eliminate the income tax for seniors who earn less than $50,000 a year.(www.barackobama.com (http://www.barackobama.com))
Stem Cell Research: Obama supports expansion of federally-funded stem cell research, including embryonic stem cell research.
Taxes and Budget issues: Obama supports repeal of tax cuts for upper income earners to pay for health care. Opposes repeal of the estate tax.


In summary, Obama wants a bigger federal government, more re-distribution of wealth, and wants to limit corporations via government controls (health care, bankruptcy, environmental issues).

I know you must twist things I say Dharma, but I stated that he was CLOSER TO SOCIALIST THAN HE WAS TO LIBERTARIAN, not that he WAS a socialist.

I also have problems with his health care plan, though probably for different reasons than you. Most likely you think it goes too far while I think it doesn't go far enough. At this stage, however, I'm not sure how big of a deal this is. Congress will write health care legislation, not the President, and I think we're doomed to incremental reform no matter who is elected.Kucinich was my first choice but stands no chance of winning. Hillary is the worst of the Democratic contenders and while I like many of Edwards' positions he comes across as too much of a fast-talking lawyer for me (and probably a lot of other people too). This leaves Obama as my candidate by default but thankfully he has quite a few good attributes. I realize I might find myself several years from now regretting (as many Bush supporters have found themselves doing) my support of a relatively inexperienced candidate. But given the alternatives he's the best choice I can make -- so there.I've pondered whether the "What will it tell the world about America if we elect Obama?" argument is a sound one to make and I still can't decide. It might be a good reason to vote for someone but probably not. Still, that doesn't matter to me as I made up my mind some time ago.

*****************************
Just admit fer cryin out loud.Ya want free Gov.'t services.Free health
coverage and probably some kinda Free lunch er udders.
Maybe that too.Free sugar titty.
Y'nose what a Pimp promises but takes instead.
You message board slackers are all the same.
Just a bunch of cheapskates.
Always lookin round the bend for somethin fur nuthin.
I blame the internet.Computer geeks love their free downloads.
" Good for Nuthins " my Granny used to say.

Obama:

[/SIZE][/FONT]High priorities: health care for all, ending the war in Iraq, social security
Abortion: Pro-choice
Capital Punishment: Supports capital punishment in certain cases
Education: Obama spports a new school construction program to improve crumbling schools. Supports recruitment of a “new generation” of teachers, improving teacher pay, and improvement in early childhood education. Opposes school vouchers. Has called for a “STEP UP” summer learning program for disadvantaged children through partnerships between community groups and schools. Supports increased funding for Head Start. Opposes reauthorization of the No Child Left Behind law until it undergoes reform. Supports merit pay for “master teachers” but opposes merit pay for teachers based on test outcomes.
“Our schools must prepare students not only to meet the demands of the global economy, but also help students take their place as committed and engaged citizens. It must ensure that all students have a quality education regardless of race, class, or background.” (www.barackobama.com (http://www.barackobama.com))
Energy/Environmental Issues: Obama pledges to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, with a goal of 80 percent by 2050, and make the U.S. a leaderin the effort to combat climate change by leading a new international global warming partnership. Supports implementing a cap-and-trade program to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. Pledges to invest $150 billion over the next 10 years to develop and implement “climate-friendly energy supplies, protect our existing manufacturing base and create millions of new jobs.” Pledges to double federal clean energy research spending. Supports efforts to reduce dependence on foreign oil, and to reduce oil consumption by 35 percent by 2030. Would require that 25 percent of electricitycome from renewable sources by 2025. (www.barackobama.com (http://www.barackobama.com))
Experience: Senator and attorney
Gay Marriage: Supports civil unions. Opposes gay marriage.
Health Care: Obama’s health care platform focuses on a new national health plan that covers the nation’s uninsured. The plan would guarantee eligibility, provide coverage similar to the federal employee health insurance program, offer “affordable” premiums, co-pays and deductibles; and allow enrollees to keep their coverage when they change jobs. He would introduce a requirement for all children to have health insurance and pledges to expand eligibility for Medicaid and the State Children’s Health Insurance Program (SCHIP). Businesses that do not provide insurance to their employees would be assessed a fee based on a percentage of their payroll. His plan would allow states to continue developing their own reform plans. He would also make employer health plans eligible for reimbursement of catastrophic costs provided the savings would be used to offset employee premiums. Obama also pledges to support disease prevention programs, promote quality and cost transparency and reform medical malpractice insurance.
Immigration: Obama upports comprehensive immigration reform legislation that combines increased border enforcement with a path to legal citizenship for illegal immigrants already living in the U.S.
The war in Iraq: Obama spoke out against the war in Iraq when he was a state senator in Illinois but was not in Congress when the vote to authorize the use of force was taken. Supports a plan to immediately begin troop withdrawal from Iraq at a pace of one or two brigades a month, to be completed by the end of 2008. Has called for a new constitutional convention in Iraq, to be convened with the United Nations. (www.barackobama.com (http://www.barackobama.com))
Social Security: Obama opposes privatization of Social Security. Has pledged to take steps to keep Social Security and Medicare solvent. Promises to amend federal bankruptcy laws to keep companies from choosing bankruptcy to avoid private pension obligations.Promises to eliminate the income tax for seniors who earn less than $50,000 a year.(www.barackobama.com (http://www.barackobama.com))
Stem Cell Research: Obama supports expansion of federally-funded stem cell research, including embryonic stem cell research.
Taxes and Budget issues: Obama supports repeal of tax cuts for upper income earners to pay for health care. Opposes repeal of the estate tax.


In summary, Obama wants a bigger federal government,

It does not say that anywhere.

more re-distribution of wealth,

It doesn't say that either.
That doesn't even make sense, since there is always re-distribution of wealth, in government and private sector, that is what life is, a constant re-distribution of wealth in changing forms. (work for money, money for food, etc.)
Right wingers re-distribute wealth from the lower classes to the upper classes through corporate welfare, subsidies, kickbacks, etc.

and wants to limit corporations via government controls

That doesn't make any sense either. Corporations are fictional legal entities that only exist through governmental controls.

A market without governmental regulation is called a Black Market.

Your complaint doesn't make sense under either context.

Can you even read with ANY comprehension?

How can you have: national health care, cap and trade environmental policy, federal stem cell research, etc. with a smaller government?

Increasing taxes on the higher earners, no privatization of SS, and no estate tax repeal, is not re-distibution of wealth?

Oh and by the way, Dharma, you have yet to refute my initial comment that Obama's platform is closer to socialist than libertarian. I guess when all else fails (or at least when you do), change the subject.:rolleyes:

[QUOTE=dharmabum]If you were talking to me, I am not voting for Paul because he is the best candidate.

If you are interested in why I am voting for him ... Nope

Already know why.Because yer a long-winded Scalawag who
thinks he's got it all down to a science.Just spout off allegiance
to the Constitution and all will be well.
Furgit about the Spirit of that parchment,or how tedious hours
were spent thinking about building a great society,w/o having
to compound every interest groups Reinvention of Rights.

" Our Constitution is in actual operation;everything appears to
promise that it will last;but nothing in this world is certain but
death and taxes. "

" ... a good conscience is a continual Christmas. "

-- Benjamin Franklin {Scientist,diplomat,publisher}

How can you have: national health care, cap and trade environmental policy, federal stem cell research, etc. with a smaller government?

Simple.
Cut spending on our bloated, taxpayer dependent military-industrial-media complex. Close some of those unnecessary military bases on foreign soil that are nothing more than money pits and targets for terrorists.

We currently spend more on our military then every other industrialized nation in the world combined. There is plenty of room to cut spending, but Republicans all lack the political courage to do it. (with the exception of Ron Paul)


Increasing taxes on the higher earners, no privatization of SS, and no estate tax repeal, is not re-distibution of wealth?

You are failing to comprehend this simple point. There is ALWAYS redistribution of wealth.

I don't see you railing against corporate welfare.

Your complaint is merely that you think it should ONLY be redistributed from the poor to the rich, never from the rich to the poor.

Simple.
Cut spending on our bloated, taxpayer dependent military-industrial-media complex. Close some of those unnecessary military bases on foreign soil that are nothing more than money pits and targets for terrorists.

We currently spend more on our military then every other industrialized nation in the world combined. There is plenty of room to cut spending, but Republicans all lack the political courage to do it. (with the exception of Ron Paul)
Cutting military spending is NOT in Obama's platform. Strike one.


You are failing to comprehend this simple point. There is ALWAYS redistribution of wealth.
...and the more redistribution there is... the closer it is to socialism... so? Strike two.


I don't see you railing against corporate welfare.

Your complaint is merely that you think it should ONLY be redistributed from the poor to the rich, never from the rich to the poor.
Not talking about my thoughts (or your delusional opinions of what I "think"), we are comparing Obama's platform.

Inability to even address the topic. Strike three.

Yer out.

Cutting military spending is NOT in Obama's platform.

So what? That wasn't the point. You said it couldn't be done and I pointed out that it can easily be done so your assumption that any of those things "must" mean "bigger government" is a load of crap.

Strike one.




...and the more redistribution there is... the closer it is to socialism...

Nonsense. You are still failing to grasp the fundamental concept that redistribution is always happening.
Redistribution happens under capitalism just as much as socialism.

Strike two.



Not talking about my thoughts, we are comparing Obama's platform.

We are talking about both, because we are talking about your unsubstantiated, wild assertions about Obama's platform and how out of touch with reality you are.

We are talking about how you don't know what you are talking about. :)

Strike Three.

yer out.

:thumbs:

LOL

It's OK to lose Dharma. It makes one stronger... sometimes.

The key is.... Live and Learn.

It's OK to lose Dharma. It makes one stronger... sometimes.

The key is.... Live and Learn.

Hey, whatever you have to tell yourself to cope with losing is fine with me.

:thumbs:

Just admit fer cryin out loud.Ya want free Gov.'t services.Free health
coverage and probably some kinda Free lunch er udders.
Maybe that too.Free sugar titty.
Y'nose what a Pimp promises but takes instead.
You message board slackers are all the same.
Just a bunch of cheapskates.
Always lookin round the bend for somethin fur nuthin.
I blame the internet.Computer geeks love their free downloads.
" Good for Nuthins " my Granny used to say.Ha ha ha!!

I don't need free anything thar Bubs.

I want what is best for our country -- you should commend my patriotism.

...and the more redistribution there is... the closer it is to socialism...

You are still failing to grasp the fundamental concept that redistribution is always happening.
Redistribution happens under capitalism just as much as socialism.


Even more so, with what has been occurring under the capitalist system at work in the U.S.A.

The largest redistribution ever witnessed in the history of the planet, monetarily, has been the ongoing transfer over the past 60 years of trillions upon trillions of taxdollars out of the pockets of the gullible American Public and into the pockets of the owners of the military/Industrial complex.

The largest redistribution ever witnessed in the history of the planet, monetarily, has been the ongoing transfer over the past 60 years of trillions upon trillions of taxdollars out of the pockets of the gullible American Public and into the pockets of the owners of the military/Industrial complex.

Truer words have never been typed on here.

:thumbs:

That is unfortunate.

I'll be down here in Florida voting for Rudy Giuliani, something only a true Floridian can do, Borg, not a Floridian wannabe who lives in Illinois.:p

I'll be down here in Florida voting for Rudy Giuliani, something only a true Floridian can do,
You must mean Pat Buchanan.

You must mean Pat Buchanan.
nope, that's me:D

i was thinking of writing him in again on Tuesday.

I'll be down here in Florida voting for Rudy Giuliani, something only a true Floridian can do, Borg, not a Floridian wannabe who lives in Illinois.:p
Well, no one seems to want to vote for 9/11.

Well, no one seems to want to vote for 9/11.My Rudy impersonation:

"9/11!! Ronald Reagan!! 9/11!! Ronald Reagan!! 9/11!! Ronald Reagan!!"

"Tax cuts!! 9/11!! Ronald Reagan!! Tax cuts!! 9/11!! Ronald Reagan!!"

And so on.

My Rudy impersonation:

"9/11!! Ronald Reagan!! 9/11!! Ronald Reagan!! 9/11!! Ronald Reagan!!"

"Tax cuts!! 9/11!! Ronald Reagan!! Tax cuts!! 9/11!! Ronald Reagan!!"

And so on.

it would be funnier if it wasn't true.:lolhit:

My Rudy impersonation:

"9/11!! Ronald Reagan!! 9/11!! Ronald Reagan!! 9/11!! Ronald Reagan!!"

"Tax cuts!! 9/11!! Ronald Reagan!! Tax cuts!! 9/11!! Ronald Reagan!!"

And so on.

So true.

ROTFL.

My Rudy impersonation:

"I was the only person in the world who could have possibly organized any sort of relief efforts after 9/11!!" "I'm tough on those scummy poor people who bother all us rich folks so much!!" I'm tough on "crime"!! {comes out onto the stage in drag, hikes his dress and breaks into a chorus of Don't Cry for Me Argentina, then continues ranting .....} "Ronald Reagan!!" "I'm tough on "crime"!! I'm tough on those scummy street people" "Tax cuts!!" "9/11!!" "9/11!!" "9/11!!" "9/11!!" "NINE/ELEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEVENNNNNNNN!!"""

{continues slobbering and uncontrollably ranting........}

"I'm tough on "crime"!! "I was a mayor of a big city!!" I was tough on the horrible homeless people who bothered the "nice" people" "Tax cuts!!" "9/11!!" "9/11!!" "9/11!!" "9/11!!"

So true.

ROTFL.

My Rudy impersonation:

"I was the only person in the world who could have possibly organized any sort of relief efforts after 9/11!!" "I'm tough on those scummy poor people who bother all us rich folks so much!!" I'm tough on "crime"!! {comes out onto the stage in drag, hikes his dress and breaks into a chorus of Don't Cry for Me Argentina, then continues ranting .....} "Ronald Reagan!!" "I'm tough on "crime"!! I'm tough on those scummy street people" "Tax cuts!!" "9/11!!" "9/11!!" "9/11!!" "9/11!!" "NINE/ELEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEVENNNNNNNN!!"""

{continues slobbering and uncontrollably ranting........}

"I'm tough on "crime"!! "I was a mayor of a big city!!" I was tough on the horrible homeless people who bothered the "nice" people" "Tax cuts!!" "9/11!!" "9/11!!" "9/11!!" "9/11!!"
http://blogs.amnestyusa.org/pub/amnestyusa/death-penalty/beating-a-dead-horse.gif

That horse won't be dead until Rudy is out of the race.

I may vote for Obama too. I think I am still technically registered as a republican in CA though and if that is the case I cant vote across party lines in the primary. Actually even if I was registered an independant I still think I could not vote in the Dem primary.

Then why is there a blank line to write in another candidates name?

Then why is there a blank line to write in another candidates name?

Because it would cost them more to change them.