I thought this was an interesting effect of the death penalty that you won't find in any statistic - namely, the guy who killed the girl agreed to locate the girls body in exchange for prosecutors agreeing not to seek the death penalty. So, apparently the death penalty is bargaining chip for the prosecution, which is a point that has been ignored/overlooked in our many death penalty debates.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/09/georgia.hiker/index.html

I thought this was an interesting effect of the death penalty that you won't find in any statistic - namely, the guy who killed the girl agreed to locate the girls body in exchange for prosecutors agreeing not to seek the death penalty. So, apparently the death penalty is bargaining chip for the prosecution, which is a point that has been ignored/overlooked in our many death penalty debates.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/09/georgia.hiker/index.html

What th'ell do you tinks a - plea bargain - IS.
hellfire,I only brought it up a few times this month.
Whether it was " Sammy the Bull " Gravano or Those guys
testifying against Michael Vick or even O.J.
I believe it's why - Jessica's Law - came about.
It's an O'Reilly cause celebre.

Good point, Leper. We really don't need the death penalty - we just need the threat of it. In fact, I was reading an article in Time the other day on it... I found it online (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1699855,00.html), and it contains some very interesting statistics. They show that there really aren't that many people dying. Only 3% of death sentences imposed in a year are actually carried out.
California's death row houses more than 660 prisoners, but no one has been executed in the state in nearly two years. Pennsylvania, with 226 inmates on death row, hasn't carried out a sentence since the '90s. In Florida a spree killer named William Elledge, who confessed to his crimes and has openly discussed his guilt in interviews, will soon complete his 33rd year on death row with his appeals still unresolved. Thirty-three years! He's one of about 55 men in Florida alone with more than 25 years on death row.
The number of death sentences has fallen by 2/3, since the peak in the 90s. The number of executions carried out in 2007 (42) was the smallest number in 13 years.
We now have a situation in which a majority of the states that authorize the death penalty seldom if ever use it. Last year only 10 states carried out an execution. And even that number overstates the vigor of the system. If you don't count executions of inmates who voluntarily dropped their appeals and asked to be killed--essentially government-assisted suicides--the state count falls to eight.
(For comparison - 36 states have the death penalty)

I read about a Scotsman who was on Death Row for 20+ years being released this week, Richey ya called him.

Using the ultimate sentence as some sort of threat, needs to be used every now and then to prove the Authorities arent bluffing.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/7178063.stm

Its funny how we laugh at death penalty through "stoning" and yet we are ok with the death penalty through injections, electricity, etc. Its just a different technology leading to the same conclusion.

Its funny how we laugh at death penalty through "stoning" and yet we are ok with the death penalty through injections, electricity, etc. Its just a different technology leading to the same conclusion.

Some people care about the means as well as the ends. It's always been that way....the long battle between law and chaos.

Of course, part of the problem with traditional stoning is that judgment is rendered by a mob, not by an impartial arbitor. If stoning started with a fair trial and due process, I'm sure a lot fewer people would have a problem with it.

Its funny how we laugh at death penalty through "stoning" and yet we are ok with the death penalty through injections, electricity, etc. Its just a different technology leading to the same conclusion.I didnt realize that other judicial systems actually sentenced you to a death by stoning. I thought that was more of a mob decision/action.

In Florida a spree killer named William Elledge, who confessed to his crimes and has openly discussed his guilt in interviews, will soon complete his 33rd year on death row with his appeals still unresolved. Thirty-three years!

To me, that pretty much renders the "death penalty" in that state meaningless.

Why should the taxpayers be forced to feed and house this confessed spree killer for one day, much less 33 years?!?!

Take to private place, administer death as painlessly as possible, pine box, place in ground and cover up. Execute him and be done with it.

Why should the taxpayers be forced to feed and house this confessed spree killer for one day, much less 33 years?!?!
It would end up the same if he had been sentenced to life without parole.

It would end up the same if he had been sentenced to life without parole.

Yep.

That's why confessed murderers like this guy need to be executed. Promptly.

Yep.

That's why confessed murderers like this guy need to be executed. Promptly.
I think so too. The fact is that, like article I linked to explains, the death penalty is being dismantled - slowly and messily. Things like long waits before executions are indicative of a gradually changing attitude towards the death penalty. I think if we're going to get rid of it we should get rid of it outright, but if we're going to keep it we need to make it better - more efficient.

but if we're going to keep it we need to make it better - more efficient.
Yeah, let's be sure to streamline the process of the government killing people. Totally!

Yeah, let's be sure to streamline the process of the government killing people. Totally!
Do you disagree?

Do you disagree?
I think, if the death penalty is going to stay, it should be as convoluted as possible, as a deterrent to judges actually trying to use it.

I think, if the death penalty is going to stay, it should be as convoluted as possible, as a deterrent to judges actually trying to use it.
Hmm. A valid viewpoint.

I think, if the death penalty is going to stay, it should be as convoluted as possible, as a deterrent to judges actually trying to use it.
i think that if 12 strangers can be convinced that you're scummy enough that you're unfit to live, a conviction shouldn't be necessary.

i think that if 12 strangers can be convinced that you're scummy enough that you're unfit to live, a conviction shouldn't be necessary.
:confused: What? If the 12 jury members were convinced, isn't that a conviction?

:confused: What? If the 12 jury members were convinced, isn't that a conviction?
convinced that the defendant is a scumbag, not that he killed those 8 hypothetical nuns.

convinced that the defendant is a scumbag, not that he killed those 8 hypothetical nuns.
I don't understand... Why would the jury say that the guy didn't deserve to live if they didn't say he was guilty of murder?

I thought this was an interesting effect of the death penalty that you won't find in any statistic - namely, the guy who killed the girl agreed to locate the girls body in exchange for prosecutors agreeing not to seek the death penalty. So, apparently the death penalty is bargaining chip for the prosecution, which is a point that has been ignored/overlooked in our many death penalty debates.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/09/georgia.hiker/index.html

It works great as a bargaining chip only so long as you kill a few people as an example to the others.

Yep.

That's why confessed murderers like this guy need to be executed. Promptly.

What effect do you think this will have on the next guy that's contemplating a confession?

I don't understand... Why would the jury say that the guy didn't deserve to live if they didn't say he was guilty of murder?
previous convictions? mom saying he remembers her birthday, but ignores it...take your pick, he/she doesn't have to be a murderer to be a scumbag.

previous convictions? mom saying he remembers her birthday, but ignores it...take your pick, he/she doesn't have to be a murderer to be a scumbag.
That's such a charming view you have. Execute people other people don't like. Lovely.

It works great as a bargaining chip only so long as you kill a few people as an example to the others.

Yep, kindof like the idea of deterrance. In this case, the guy was "deterred" from not cooperating.

My not having much faith in rehabilitation probably effects my opinion that certain humans, by their own choices, should be permanently removed from society.
As one example, is the father that threw his kids off the Mobile, Alabama bridge last week because of problems with his wife. This was a cruel and unusual act, calling for justice of a cruel and unusual punishment.

I believe, that a convicted murderer has decided his own method of death by copying the method he/she used in the original murder. In most cases this would remove the use of electricity, hanging, lethal injection, or after a life-time in prison.

My not having much faith in rehabilitation probably effects my opinion that certain humans, by their own choices, should be permanently removed from society.
As one example, is the father that threw his kids off the Mobile, Alabama bridge last week because of problems with his wife. This was a cruel and unusual act, calling for justice of a cruel and unusual punishment.

I believe, that a convicted murderer has decided his own method of death by copying the method he/she used in the original murder. In most cases this would remove the use of electricity, hanging, lethal injection, or after a life-time in prison.

There are still some countries where you'll get your hand chopped off for stealing. Not terribly civilized IMO.

There are still some countries where you'll get your hand chopped off for stealing. Not terribly civilized IMO.

No, but it is easy to recognize a convicted thief on sight.

I remember a friend from Saudi once telling me that one of the best lawyers there had one hand and one foot.

No, but it is easy to recognize a convicted thief on sight.

Indeed, the question is, do we need to do that?

Indeed, the question is, do we need to do that?

My original post was concerning the death penalty for willful murder.
I do not actually believe that lesser crimes should be marked upon the person.
No "Scarlet Letter" type thing.
Some punishments do seem extreme for the crime, although I will add that there probably would be better prices at stores if there was the threat of a good ol' hand chopping for shop lifting. ;)

That's such a charming view you have. Execute people other people don't like. Lovely.
there's really few ppl i don't like-Charlie Manson comes to mind.if you remember correctly, he wasn't there during the Tate/La Blanca murders.