I have studied the JFK assassination for some time now... and both sides cling to certain "facts" that prove their point.

Recently, there was a History Channel special pretty much saying that any thought of a conspiracy or a second shooter is completely insane. They downed every conspiracy claim.. and how did they do it? By personal testimony. Newsflash: Do you honestly think the government would incriminate itself? All of these "experts" would say how insignificant Jack Ruby was, and would speculate on Oswald's mental condition as if it were fact.

Meanwhile, I have heard so many testimonies about gunshots heard from the grassy knoll, smoke in the grassy knoll, A worker behind the grassy knoll seeing a man fleeing the scene, LBJ's wife saying he would "make the kennedy's pay", The doctors during the autopsy noticing the bullying military presence, People reporting being detained and threatened.... are these people just not credible?

And what about all the unusual circumstances that day in Dallas?

- Many, if not all, Dallas police officers were called off from the parade
- The parade route was changed, and for no good reason
- A man with an umbrella on a completely sunny day, obviously planted to give an "okay" or "abort" signal for the assassination.
- The limo Kennedy was in was immediately taken and stripped down and destroyed.


A few more things:

There are multiple people who have footage and snapshots of that day in dealy plaza. The thing is, it's almost too perfect. NONE of the shots clearly define the grassy knoll or the snipers nest. What are the odds of that? With so many cameras... they ALL missed it. My thinking is that anyone who did capture it was quickly detained.

The Abraham Zapruder Film... the most famous footage of the kennedy assassination, was obviously altered. Close examinations show head movements beyond human capabilities, skips in frames, etc. They even made the wound look like it hit the back of his head. The ORIGINAL zapruder film shows much different.. the man's entire face and head was just blown off.

I just think it's funny that the history channel can get government testimony, and then say it's fact... Like they have nothing at stake. There is a TON of stuff to discuss about the JFK assassination.. so if you have any questions on my points let me know and we can debate!

Question authority!!!I have studied the JFK assassination for some time now... and both sides cling to certain "facts" that prove their point.

Recently, there was a History Channel special pretty much saying that any thought of a conspiracy or a second shooter is completely insane. They downed every conspiracy claim.. and how did they do it? By personal testimony. Newsflash: Do you honestly think the government would incriminate itself? All of these "experts" would say how insignificant Jack Ruby was, and would speculate on Oswald's mental condition as if it were fact.

Meanwhile, I have heard so many testimonies about gunshots heard from the grassy knoll, smoke in the grassy knoll, A worker behind the grassy knoll seeing a man fleeing the scene, LBJ's wife saying he would "make the kennedy's pay", The doctors during the autopsy noticing the bullying military presence, People reporting being detained and threatened.... are these people just not credible?

And what about all the unusual circumstances that day in Dallas?

- Many, if not all, Dallas police officers were called off from the parade
- The parade route was changed, and for no good reason
- A man with an umbrella on a completely sunny day, obviously planted to give an "okay" or "abort" signal for the assassination.
- The limo Kennedy was in was immediately taken and stripped down and destroyed.


A few more things:

There are multiple people who have footage and snapshots of that day in dealy plaza. The thing is, it's almost too perfect. NONE of the shots clearly define the grassy knoll or the snipers nest. What are the odds of that? With so many cameras... they ALL missed it. My thinking is that anyone who did capture it was quickly detained.

The Abraham Zapruder Film... the most famous footage of the kennedy assassination, was obviously altered. Close examinations show head movements beyond human capabilities, skips in frames, etc. They even made the wound look like it hit the back of his head. The ORIGINAL zapruder film shows much different.. the man's entire face and head was just blown off.

I just think it's funny that the history channel can get government testimony, and then say it's fact... Like they have nothing at stake. There is a TON of stuff to discuss about the JFK assassination.. so if you have any questions on my points let me know and we can debate!

- The limo Kennedy was in was immediately taken and stripped down and destroyed.


you should have researched that point a little more. i've knew where it was, and so has nearly every school kid in MI since it's been at the Henry Ford Museum since it was retired in 1977.

http://www.legacydiecast.com/xq/asp/id.YM24048/qx/review.htm

anyhow, it doesn't really matter who killed JFK-either the government can't protect a single man, or no one is safe from the government. take your pick, you're no safer.

Decka, I respect you sir.
But rumor, conjecture, and revisionist history do not equal fact.

- "Many, if not all, Dallas police officers were called off from the parade"?
Ridiculous, and not at all supported by the evidence and testimony. Read Chapter 8 of the Warren Commission Report. 600 officers from the Dallas municipality (police, fire, traffic) were working the parade route that day, though admittedly, the coordination between their agencies and the 28 Secret Service agents could have been better. Three officers from the Dallas Police Department were working the intersection of Elm and Houston during the morning of November 22.

- "The parade route was changed, and for no good reason"?
What, at the last second you mean? I'd like to see a reference for this.

- "A man with an umbrella on a completely sunny day, obviously planted to give an "okay" or "abort" signal for the assassination"?
Fascinating theory, but not supportable by any evidence or testimony.

- "The limo Kennedy was in was immediately taken and stripped down and destroyed"? Kennedy's limo was not destroyed. It was initially cleaned up (remember, there was blood, brain matter, and and bits of skull all over the interior of the car) and stored. It was later shipped back to Ford's Advanced Vehicles group (the folks who had originally built the car) to be redesigned. Fitted with titanium armor, bulletproof glass, run-flat tires (with aluminum rims inside), and a permanent hardtop, the limo emerged 2000 pounds heavier. Put back into service in 1964, it served presidents Johnson, Nixon, Ford, and Carter, before being retired in 1977. The limo now resides at the Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn, Michigan.

Decka & others;

Is there some reason why this conspiracy theory is so compelling to you that it must be true for you?

I'm familiar with the psychology of course;
Something this tragic and horrific occurs, and when the simple truth is revealed, the simple truth is immediately suspect. A fantastic and ridiculous story of conspiracy and the involvement of the US Government is easier to believe than the simple, sad truth.

Classic examples of the simple, sad truth:

* A lone gunman with a mail-order Italian carbine and a need for attention shoots and kills the President of the United States.

* Marilyn Monroe takes too many sleeping pills and dies.

* Elvis Presley destroys his body with too many prescription medications and too much fatty foods, and he dies on the crapper.

* Andy Kaufman got cancer and died.

* A small group of Muslim extremist assholes caught the American people with their pants down, and they perpetrated a brilliantly-simple plan; hijack a bunch of airliners armed only with boxcutters, and then drive those planes into high-visibility targets.

These simple, sad truths are somehow too hard for some to swallow.
Either a vast government conspiracy is alleged (Oswald, Marilyn Monroe, 911), or it was all big lie, and it never happened (Elvis Presley, Andy Kaufman).

:(

Decka, I respect you sir.
But rumor, conjecture, and revisionist history do not equal fact.
:(
I agree Sparky.. there are a lot of Kennedy Assassination hacks out there who say things that aren't true. And just because someone said they saw bigfoot doesn't mean he exists. However, when so many things collide, it leads one to wonder. I can't say if it's definite that JFK was assassinated by more than one gunman, but I can say that there is significant purpose to question.

- "Many, if not all, Dallas police officers were called off from the parade"?
Ridiculous, and not at all supported by the evidence and testimony. Read Chapter 8 of the Warren Commission Report. 600 officers from the Dallas municipality (police, fire, traffic) were working the parade route that day, though admittedly, the coordination between their agencies and the 28 Secret Service agents could have been better. Three officers from the Dallas Police Department were working the intersection of Elm and Houston during the morning of November 22.
:(
I try not to look too much on websites about the Kennedy Assassination, I have many books. The one I find most interesting and reputable is by James H. Fetzer called "Murder in Dealey Plaza"... Now Mr. Fetzer presents his story as fact, I just consider the evidence he brings to the table. Meanwhile... while you site the Warren Commission, that is one way to completely fall into the cover-up, if there is one. The government checked itself, and released the Warren Commission. Not many people "buy" it, and I am one of them. I don't say that everything the Warren Commission says is false, I just say that there are things purposely left out or altered in it. I actually just looked back at the book and got the two mixed up... wow my credibility will take a hit there LOL... it was the SECRET SERVICE that was called off, for no reason, and left only the dallas police to defend the president. That is highly unusual.

- "The parade route was changed, and for no good reason"?
What, at the last second you mean? I'd like to see a reference for this.
:(
Again, I site the book mentioned above. There is a speed that presidential motorcades are NOT ALLOWED to go under.. and going down Dealey Plaza was sure to put them under that mph. Not only was that parade route illegal, but it was dangerous, unprotected, and guaranteed a slow moving car.

- "A man with an umbrella on a completely sunny day, obviously planted to give an "okay" or "abort" signal for the assassination"?
Fascinating theory, but not supportable by any evidence or testimony.
:(
Here is a picture of the opened umbrella:
http://www.jfk-assassination.de/images/umbrella2.gif

In the lower corner, the red arrow pointing to it. It just doesn't make sense. It doesn't mean it's a conspiracy, it's just odd. And the more odd things there are, the more it smells.

- "The limo Kennedy was in was immediately taken and stripped down and destroyed"? Kennedy's limo was not destroyed. It was initially cleaned up (remember, there was blood, brain matter, and and bits of skull all over the interior of the car) and stored. It was later shipped back to Ford's Advanced Vehicles group (the folks who had originally built the care) to be redesigned. Fitted with titanium armor, bulletproof glass, run-flat tires (with aluminum rims inside), and a permanent hardtop, the limo emerged 2000 pounds heavier. Put back into service in 1964, it served presidents Johnson, Nixon, Ford, and Carter, before being retired in 1977. The limo now resides at the Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn, Michigan.
:(
I made the mistake of saying it was destroyed.. but it WAS completely stripped IMMEDIATELY... why would you ship out the limo, have it stripped down, and completely destroy ALL EVIDENCE if there is nothing to hide? That just seems fishy to me.

Decka & others;

Is there some reason why this conspiracy theory is so compelling to you that it must be true for you?

I'm familiar with the psychology of course;
Something this tragic and horrific occurs, and when the simple truth is revealed, the simple truth is immediately suspect. A fantastic and ridiculous story of conspiracy and the involvement of the US Government is easier to believe than the simple, sad truth.

Classic examples of the simple, sad truth:

* A lone gunman with a mail-order Italian carbine and a need for attention shoots and kills the President of the United States.

* Marilyn Monroe takes too many sleeping pills and dies.

* Elvis Presley destroys his body with too many prescription medications and too much fatty foods, and he dies on the crapper.

* Andy Kaufman got cancer and died.

* A small group of Muslim extremist assholes caught the American people with their pants down, and they perpetrated a brilliantly-simple plan; hijack a bunch of airliners armed only with boxcutters, and then drive those planes into high-visibility targets.

These simple, sad truths are somehow too hard for some to swallow.
Either a vast government conspiracy is alleged (Oswald, Marilyn Monroe, 911), or it was all big lie, and it never happened (Elvis Presley, Andy Kaufman).

:(

I have heard this multiple times, and always hear it when talking about conspiracies, and i sometimes GIVE the speech. Some people can't believe that some guy with a gun can just kill the president. It's much more sexier if the government did it. I'm not saying definite either way, my point is that the governments defense and it's reports are weak and don't answer all of the questions.

More interesting things:

Just before the assassination... some guy had a seizure of some sort right in front of the book depository. He was picked up by an ambulance but never was admitted into a hospital and was never identified.

David Ferrie, one of the suspected participants in the plot, drives 364 miles just after the shooting takes place.

There are a ton of just WEIRD THINGS that happened that day... that is for sure.

I agree it was odd, sir.
There were a lot of seemingly odd occurrences and circumstances surrounding the assassination of JFK. Though I tend to believe that the record of any tragic event, evaluated under a critical microscope and then dissected for many years, would produce an equal number of odd details and coincidences.

I guess my skepticism about a vast Government conspiracy to plan and execute such a thing come from my own experiences working for the Government all these years. To paraphrase myself from an earlier thread on this topic:

"I work for the US Government. You can't plan or execute a plan to go to the bathroom without several dozen people complaining about the gender-dynamics of the bathroom, several dozen more filing a sexual harassment greviance over the very notion that a man needs to go to the bathroom, and at least a half dozen going to the union to request some sort of compensation for past-misdeed associated with said bathroom."

In other words, if somebody believed that there was a Government conspiracy to execute JFK, they would have to believe that:

* there was some serious coordination going on between the White House, the Secret Service, the Dallas Police, the New Orleans police, the FBI, the CIA, and the Bureau of Immigration and Naturalization
and
* that all those folks managed to keep their mouths shut all these years

I just don't buy it.

Here's what I believe:
Oswald was the lone gunman.
He was a fuck-up and a goof, but he acted alone.

There was a conspiracy however.
But not a conspiracy to kill Kennedy.

There was a conspiracy after Kennedy was shot and killed by Oswald.
The conspiracy I'm speaking of was the one perpetrated by the Secret Service, the CIA, the Dallas Police, and the FBI.

They all conspired to cover their ASS.
They had nothing to do with Oswald's private plan to kill the President and get himself some fame and notoriety.
But afterwards, they all scrambled to cover-up the details of their own inattention to detail, their failure to protect the unprotect-able, and their own shame at letting a popular US President get his head blown-open on their watch.

And because they all covered-up, concealed facts, hid documents, destroyed evidence of their various oversights, the conspiracy-kooks (like Oliver Stone for instance) came crawling out of the woodwork.
"The Government knows something. They're not telling us everything they know. All these agencies conspired to kill JFK, how dastardly!!"

JFK was popular and charismatic.
His loss was just too tragic for many to comprehend.
And the simple, sad truth that a single loner/loser/ex-Marine with a mail-order Italian carbine had taken him out in a pathetic act of desperation was way too much for them to accept.

A Government conspiracy, a Vice-Presidential order, a Mafia plot, a Fidel Castro vendetta, all these ridiculous scenarios were easier to swallow than was the sad, simple truth:

JFK was riding in an open limousine, in slow traffic, in a crowded urban environment, and any kook with a rifle could have taken him out.
And one did.

:(

Are there rumors that Andy Kaufman did not die? I've never heard that one I guess. All the others you mentioned I have.Decka, I respect you sir.
But rumor, conjecture, and revisionist history do not equal fact.

- "Many, if not all, Dallas police officers were called off from the parade"?
Ridiculous, and not at all supported by the evidence and testimony. Read Chapter 8 of the Warren Commission Report. 600 officers from the Dallas municipality (police, fire, traffic) were working the parade route that day, though admittedly, the coordination between their agencies and the 28 Secret Service agents could have been better. Three officers from the Dallas Police Department were working the intersection of Elm and Houston during the morning of November 22.

- "The parade route was changed, and for no good reason"?
What, at the last second you mean? I'd like to see a reference for this.

- "A man with an umbrella on a completely sunny day, obviously planted to give an "okay" or "abort" signal for the assassination"?
Fascinating theory, but not supportable by any evidence or testimony.

- "The limo Kennedy was in was immediately taken and stripped down and destroyed"? Kennedy's limo was not destroyed. It was initially cleaned up (remember, there was blood, brain matter, and and bits of skull all over the interior of the car) and stored. It was later shipped back to Ford's Advanced Vehicles group (the folks who had originally built the car) to be redesigned. Fitted with titanium armor, bulletproof glass, run-flat tires (with aluminum rims inside), and a permanent hardtop, the limo emerged 2000 pounds heavier. Put back into service in 1964, it served presidents Johnson, Nixon, Ford, and Carter, before being retired in 1977. The limo now resides at the Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn, Michigan.

Decka & others;

Is there some reason why this conspiracy theory is so compelling to you that it must be true for you?

I'm familiar with the psychology of course;
Something this tragic and horrific occurs, and when the simple truth is revealed, the simple truth is immediately suspect. A fantastic and ridiculous story of conspiracy and the involvement of the US Government is easier to believe than the simple, sad truth.

Classic examples of the simple, sad truth:

* A lone gunman with a mail-order Italian carbine and a need for attention shoots and kills the President of the United States.

* Marilyn Monroe takes too many sleeping pills and dies.

* Elvis Presley destroys his body with too many prescription medications and too much fatty foods, and he dies on the crapper.

* Andy Kaufman got cancer and died.

* A small group of Muslim extremist assholes caught the American people with their pants down, and they perpetrated a brilliantly-simple plan; hijack a bunch of airliners armed only with boxcutters, and then drive those planes into high-visibility targets.

These simple, sad truths are somehow too hard for some to swallow.
Either a vast government conspiracy is alleged (Oswald, Marilyn Monroe, 911), or it was all big lie, and it never happened (Elvis Presley, Andy Kaufman).

:(

Sparky's explanation is plausible. The Warren Commission could have been trying to help the government cover up mistakes in security.





Then there was "the magic bullet theory". How could the Warren Commision expect anyone with a grade school education to believe that garbage? Pristine my ass. All that damage to bones and no damage to the bullet? Then it just "fell out" of Gov Connelly's body onto the stretcher? Poppycock.


I think that a highly militarized section within the government could very easily direct other branches of government in their actions without explaining themseves to achieve their goals. If said group were the only players involved with a mission objective, they could use their political influence (if they had powerful backing) to orchestrate their plan. Anyone who knew too much could become a statistic.

Why did JFK's brain or piece of skull shoot out the BACK of his head? The same thing Jackie was trying to reach for when it slid across the trunk of the limo. I mean, he was shot from behind and from an elevated position. Why would trauma cause anything to be blown backwards? Why was there an exit wound at all in the back of his head?

Why wont the government release all the evidence? Why is the government making this a big deal? This happened in 1963, yet their supposedly releasing the "top secret information" in 2017? Lots of unanswered questions by the very people who investigated it.

Here's what I believe:
Oswald was the lone gunman.
He was a fuck-up and a goof, but he acted alone.

There was a conspiracy however.
But not a conspiracy to kill Kennedy.

There was a conspiracy after Kennedy was shot and killed by Oswald.
The conspiracy I'm speaking of was the one perpetrated by the Secret Service, the CIA, the Dallas Police, and the FBI.

They all conspired to cover their ASS.
They had nothing to do with Oswald's private plan to kill the President and get himself some fame and notoriety.
But afterwards, they all scrambled to cover-up the details of their own inattention to detail, their failure to protect the unprotect-able, and their own shame at letting a popular US President get his head blown-open on their watch.

And because they all covered-up, concealed facts, hid documents, destroyed evidence of their various oversights, the conspiracy-kooks (like Oliver Stone for instance) came crawling out of the woodwork.
"The Government knows something. They're not telling us everything they know. All these agencies conspired to kill JFK, how dastardly!!"

JFK was popular and charismatic.
His loss was just too tragic for many to comprehend.
And the simple, sad truth that a single loner/loser/ex-Marine with a mail-order Italian carbine had taken him out in a pathetic act of desperation was way too much for them to accept.

A Government conspiracy, a Vice-Presidential order, a Mafia plot, a Fidel Castro vendetta, all these ridiculous scenarios were easier to swallow than was the sad, simple truth:

JFK was riding in an open limousine, in slow traffic, in a crowded urban environment, and any kook with a rifle could have taken him out.
And one did.

:(
maybe Jack Ruby killed Oswald for the same reason he was a police informant, not because he was a police informant? a "good old boy" who felt the need for justice to be served piping hot.

Sparky's explanation is plausible. The Warren Commission could have been trying to help the government cover up mistakes in security.





Then there was "the magic bullet theory". How could the Warren Commision expect anyone with a grade school education to believe that garbage? Pristine my ass. All that damage to bones and no damage to the bullet? Then it just "fell out" of Gov Connelly's body onto the stretcher? Poppycock.


I think that a highly militarized section within the government could very easily direct other branches of government in their actions without explaining themseves to achieve their goals. If said group were the only players involved with a mission objective, they could use their political influence (if they had powerful backing) to orchestrate their plan. Anyone who knew too much could become a statistic.

Why did JFK's brain or piece of skull shoot out the BACK of his head? The same thing Jackie was trying to reach for when it slid across the trunk of the limo. I mean, he was shot from behind and from an elevated position. Why would trauma cause anything to be blown backwards? Why was there an exit wound at all in the back of his head?

Why wont the government release all the evidence? Why is the government making this a big deal? This happened in 1963, yet their supposedly releasing the "top secret information" in 2017? Lots of unanswered questions by the very people who investigated it.
blow back. shoot at anything, material will spray back in the direction that bullet came from. the softer the material and the higher the delivered energy, the more you get.

Everyone who've seen X-Files know it was the cigarette smoking man :)

I bet the umbrella was being used as a parasol by a lady who wanted to stay out of the sun. I'm pretty sure they still did that back in th 60s... I mean, women wore gloves and hats all the time! :eek:

I bet the umbrella was being used as a parasol by a lady who wanted to stay out of the sun.

It's possible. The sun can be brutal in Dallas, but this happened in late November, when temps are quite tolerable and the sun isn't nearly as harsh. And I don't think it was wet or drizzly that day, although it certainly does rain in Dallas in November...

I once heard a theory that there was a second shooter hidden in a manhole in front of the limo, although it certainly can't be a very strong theory or we'd have heard more about it.

Bottom line, I think it was the work of one seriously disturbed man. I've been to the Sixth Floor Museum twice in the last six months, and the shot doesn't appear to have been that difficult for a good marksman (which Oswald was). The distance between the window Oswald shot from and the limo location is a LOT closer than it appears in the videos...

It could have been a "lone gunman"... but look who all benefited from JFK's death. Pretty much all of the gov't cronies wanted a war with Cuba in the bay of pigs, and Kennedy wasn't giving them one. Wars = funds... and funds are never 100% expended.

Plus, with all the Castro stuff, they probably assumed the public would think it was a cuban assassination. Those are just my thoughts though.

Another thing people fail to realize... IF this was a two-man hit... a conspiracy... they were obviously TRAINED professionals. I see history channel looking for a shooter above the fence at the grassy knoll... that's a pretty obvious position... you'd be smarter to either find or make a small hole towards the bottom of the fence. The Knoll is slightly uphill anyways.

You do have to admit that any assassin who is then killed quickly before he sings brings suspicion. I find the theory that "Jack Ruby was so mad that he killed HIS president that after stopping at the bank to wire some money to one of his dancers, WITH his dog in the car, he just decided to pull a gun he happened to have on hand and shoot Oswald."... that is just plain bunk. I think there is a reason Ruby killed Oswald, and that reason probably died with Oswald.

blow back. shoot at anything, material will spray back in the direction that bullet came from. the softer the material and the higher the delivered energy, the more you get.Not entire portions of skull or brain. I've shot plenty of deer and you're correct, there are some times where blowback occurs(for want of a better term). However, i've never seen portions of ribs, big portions of heart, liver, or any other organ "blowback".

I'd like to address a few points here.

Decka, the man who had the seizure in front of the School Depository building was indeed taken to the hospital (Parkland Memorial) but he left before the doctors could see him. This alone means nothing.

Havok, several tests have been done on the trajectory of the bullet that hit JFK in the head. It was not pristine, it was fired from an angle behind and above the President's limo. It is also false that only a sharpshooting marksman could have gotten off the shots fired. Any above average marksman could have done it, and in less time than it took Oswald. Also physicists at Cal-Tech and elsewhere have determined that a wound from behind will cause a slight backward motion, then a frontal motion. The fatal bullet was not fired from in front.

I'd like to recommend a superb book--rather, 2 books, about the nonsense concerning a conspiracy--and that's what I consider most conspiracies concerning this murder to be--absolute nonsense. Keep in mind that this murder is big business and the more bizarre and laughable the theory, the better and more lucrattive as far as the conspiracy kooks are concerned. See Jean Hill, woman eyewitness, for example-- a lady who changed her story multiple times--anything to add justification to her otherwise dull and humdrum life. The broad was a kook!

The first book--Case Closed by Gerald Posner--absolutely superb reporting by a Pulitzer-Prize winning author.

And, Vincent Bugliosi's new tour de force on this --took him 25 years to research.

Both writers reach the conclusion that Oswald acted alone; both dismantle the conspiracy theories one by one. Both admit the Warren Commision contains errors--but not enough to support a conspiracy.

PS. Umbrella man?
Come on!

The "smoke" from the grassy knoll?
What were they firing--Revolutionary War muskets?
.......and my own personal fave--how the President's body was stolen from Air Force One. At a ranking of theories from one to ten, that one ranks as a zero.

JFK was popular and charismatic.
His loss was just too tragic for many to comprehend.
And the simple, sad truth that a single loner/loser/ex-Marine with a mail-order Italian carbine had taken him out in a pathetic act of desperation was way too much for them to accept.


:(

He really wasn't that popular. It's my belief he prob would have lost the upcoming election. Many voters were upset with his take on civil rights and the economy, which was struggling. As for a "commie" plot the conspiracy kooks love---Kruschev had no reason to back a killing. He considered JFK little better than a dilitantte and spoiled rich boy put in a job for which he was not qualified.

If he hadn't been shot, he'd prob be remembered as a less than average Prez. But like Humphrey Bogart said when James Dean died--

"Good career move, kid."

PPS.

If there WAS a hit put out on JFK--and i'm not saying there was by any means, but for the sake of argument, let's say there was--it was prob a Syndicate hit.

Sam Giancana swung the election in Cook Co for JFK, and Kennedy repaid the favor by turning his brother, who had zero law enforcement background as Attorney General--on organized crime.

Wouldn't surprise me a tad if those Chicago gents didn't take kindly to that.

Rather than bringing Castro, the KGB, the Dallas Police Force, the military-industrial complex, the KKK, Richard Nixon, LBJ, the FBI, the CIA and the Boy Scouts, not to mention the Martians, into the mix, let's just say the assassination had all the earmarks of a gangland hit.

And Ruby DID have ties to the Chicago underworld--true, a very very minor player, BUT.....:@@:

So,Jack Ruby wasn't a Bobby Knight who wasn't a Lee Harvey.
Ruby practically adored J.F.K and Oswald admired Castro.
Knight liked a good shot,therefore he wooda liked both Ruby
and Oswald.
What else ya wanna knowed.?
Oh yeah,Bugliosi like a good murder conspiracy.
- And the Sea Will Tell -.
I wonder who Sea'd somethin besides that Zapruder fellar.

Rendova... I have read counter-arguments, people who outright deny ANY conspiracy.. and while the evidence they give would solve a lot of questions.. you have to take into account where the evidence is coming from. Answer? The government. Who is on trial here? The government. Of course all of the evidence is going to point towards the warren commission.. who would incriminate themselves?

Now I'm not saying it's definitely a conspiracy, but do you get my point on how the source of these "facts" is from the very people who would want to manipulate them?

Rendova... I have read counter-arguments, people who outright deny ANY conspiracy.. and while the evidence they give would solve a lot of questions.. you have to take into account where the evidence is coming from. Answer? The government. Who is on trial here? The government. Of course all of the evidence is going to point towards the warren commission.. who would incriminate themselves?

Now I'm not saying it's definitely a conspiracy, but do you get my point on how the source of these "facts" is from the very people who would want to manipulate them?

I understand yur argument, Decka, but what was the motive? Every crime has a motive.
Why would the "government" kill Kennedy? Esp seeing how the 1964 election was only 1 year away.
Seems to me a long walk for a short beer.

Bugliosi deals extensively with the theory of the governments "motives" --in the light of history, there were none.


It's important to remember that Kennedy wasn't soft on Communism.

So,Jack Ruby wasn't a Bobby Knight who wasn't a Lee Harvey.
Ruby practically adored J.F.K and Oswald admired Castro.
Knight liked a good shot,therefore he wooda liked both Ruby
and Oswald.
What else ya wanna knowed.?
Oh yeah,Bugliosi like a good murder conspiracy.
- And the Sea Will Tell -.
I wonder who Sea'd somethin besides that Zapruder fellar.

Hhhmmmm--now why didn't the Warren Commision look into THIS???

Coach Knight killed Kennedy!!!!!!

I sense a new, historically accurate and fair movie coming out from Oliver Stone, respected historian.:@@: :@@: :@@:

J.F.K shot heself.
Why not.?
Lots famous people end up shootin themself.

Dint Teddy almost try and drown heself.
Same damn thingy.
Truman Capote *insisted that if ya took all 3 Kennedy boys
{ Bobby,Jack & Teddy } there still wouldn't be enough there
for a goodsize pecker.
And he oughta knowed.He was a Friend to Jackie and visited
the Kennedy's Summer home and Pool enough times.


* in - Answered Prayers - The unfinished novel.

"The most talked about Novel in publishing history." {Chicago Tribune}

Here's what I believe:
Oswald was the lone gunman.
He was a fuck-up and a goof, but he acted alone.

There was a conspiracy however.
But not a conspiracy to kill Kennedy.

There was a conspiracy after Kennedy was shot and killed by Oswald.
The conspiracy I'm speaking of was the one perpetrated by the Secret Service, the CIA, the Dallas Police, and the FBI.

They all conspired to cover their ASS.
They had nothing to do with Oswald's private plan to kill the President and get himself some fame and notoriety.
But afterwards, they all scrambled to cover-up the details of their own inattention to detail, their failure to protect the unprotect-able, and their own shame at letting a popular US President get his head blown-open on their watch.

And because they all covered-up, concealed facts, hid documents, destroyed evidence of their various oversights, the conspiracy-kooks (like Oliver Stone for instance) came crawling out of the woodwork.
"The Government knows something. They're not telling us everything they know. All these agencies conspired to kill JFK, how dastardly!!"

JFK was popular and charismatic.
His loss was just too tragic for many to comprehend.
And the simple, sad truth that a single loner/loser/ex-Marine with a mail-order Italian carbine had taken him out in a pathetic act of desperation was way too much for them to accept.

A Government conspiracy, a Vice-Presidential order, a Mafia plot, a Fidel Castro vendetta, all these ridiculous scenarios were easier to swallow than was the sad, simple truth:

JFK was riding in an open limousine, in slow traffic, in a crowded urban environment, and any kook with a rifle could have taken him out.
And one did.

:(

Nail on the head, Sparky. Same as 9/11, the Monday morning quarterbacks all come out and start analysing the data. The ones in "control" begin a cover-up of the fuck-ups that they may/may not have done. Everyone is afraid of the questioning of their methods. It's the old "point the finger" and "dodge the responsibility" game.

Hindsight is always 20/20.

I would say the only way you could put the JFK assassination and 9-11 in the same boat is by saying they have both been questioned as to what exactly happened. These are different times, different circumstances...

I just always notice how much the personal testimony is taken as fact when the government tries to explain the kennedy assassination... and then doesn't give any hint of credit to anyone who says something opposing or otherwise.

The % of people who think there was a conspiracy to kill JFK is probably a lot hire than that of the people who think there was a conspiracy to take down the towers.