Not necessarily fear, SMW. It could be as small a thing as inconvenience.

On a cultural scale I feel pretty comfortable living in the city in this country in this day, so I don't complain. But this is not necessarily true for gay couples, for people who want to have abortion, for non-religious people who live in a smaller and religious community.

On more personal levels, you will find that the most common problem is that religious parents often get very angry at their children when the children switch belief or stop believing. This anger can manifest physically, financially, emotionally.

How about in relationships? This is big. My agnostic friends who date religious people usually end up breaking up because their girlfriend/boyfriend get either pissed at them not believing, or they go the route or trying to convert them. I am not saying one side is right another is wrong. I am giving example of how another person's belief can negatively impact you and your life.

Science, surprisingly seems to do just fine, despite all the verbal thrashing that tend to crop up in religious arguments. It makes sense because the mainstream Christian belief actually embraces science. But you bet I will get really angry if some breakthrough research is terminated because of religious opposition.

I understand what you're saying, Dio... and in some respects, agree with you. For example, there was an Egyptian man here who murdered both his teenage daughters a few days ago here because they had become too 'Americanized' and he disapproved of them dating outside their religion. Very sad story.

But I'm sure you're also aware that for every story of some poor soul whose life is 'damaged' by religion, there are MILLIONS and MILLIONS of people who manage to live their lives with no ill effects at all and many more MILLIONS who actually benefit from the work of people who believe it's their calling to serve God's children.

I've just never been a fan of the 'punish the many for the sins of the few' philosophy.

Ok, can you explain what it is you're on about? I have no idea what the problem is, you're incredibly confusing...
And no need to throw insults at me and the entire community...

THAT is it exactly...no need to throw insults. That was my point from the beginning and it still is. You get "confused" when you can't argue with the facts and admit to being insulting. Plus, you have been here long enough to know what I'm talking about as far as fitting in. It wasn't the entire community, so don't try to make me out the bad guy.

I've just never been a fan of the 'punish the many for the sins of the few' philosophy.

Not even the evil atheists? ;)

. It gets very messy at the end and eventually you can't even remember what you're talking about.

congradulations... welcome to life on AFN... if you have a point make it quick and make it fast... threads almost always evolve on here quickly... sometimes for the best,sometimes for the worst.... things that have no real relation to the topic on hand get dragged into the mix (I call those ghost arguments) and by the time the thread dies you would be in shock if you look up at the title.

religion is a tough thing to debate on here. alot of people post with their mind made up before they click "reply" no room to grow. They want ot convert you at all costs to thier own way of thinking or it is a lost cause. I might not agree with atheist,but i love to hear from them the way they think,and what brought them there. You only grow as a person if you open yourself up to others and their own ideas.

the only topic worse than religion to debate on here is politics.

THAT is it exactly...no need to throw insults. That was my point from the beginning and it still is. You get "confused" when you can't argue with the facts and admit to being insulting. Plus, you have been here long enough to know what I'm talking about as far as fitting in. It wasn't the entire community, so don't try to make me out the bad guy.

But it wasn't an insult!
I have already appologized if you felt it was insulting (twice) now what do you want me to do? Go jump off a building?

Can't we just stop this? It's not very productive and certainly not fun.

I post a hug and we leave it at that?

:bighug:

congradulations... welcome to life on AFN... if you have a point make it quick and make it fast... threads almost always evolve on here quickly... sometimes for the best,sometimes for the worst.... things that have no real relation to the topic on hand get dragged into the mix (I call those ghost arguments) and by the time the thread dies you would be in shock if you look up at the title.

religion is a tough thing to debate on here. alot of people post with their mind made up before they click "reply" no room to grow. They want ot convert you at all costs to thier own way of thinking or it is a lost cause. I might not agree with atheist,but i love to hear from them the way they think,and what brought them there. You only grow as a person if you open yourself up to others and their own ideas.

the only topic worse than religion to debate on here is politics.

LOL - you have always had a way with explanations, LF. You're spot on with this post.

congradulations... welcome to life on AFN... if you have a point make it quick and make it fast... threads almost always evolve on here quickly... sometimes for the best,sometimes for the worst.... things that have no real relation to the topic on hand get dragged into the mix (I call those ghost arguments) and by the time the thread dies you would be in shock if you look up at the title.

religion is a tough thing to debate on here. alot of people post with their mind made up before they click "reply" no room to grow. They want ot convert you at all costs to thier own way of thinking or it is a lost cause. I might not agree with atheist,but i love to hear from them the way they think,and what brought them there. You only grow as a person if you open yourself up to others and their own ideas.

the only topic worse than religion to debate on here is politics.

It is the same on most forums :)
I am not an atheist, so I find it interesting to debate with atheists to try to understand what pushed them that bit further. I also like to understand why people are on the religious side of agnosticism. The hardcore religious are hard to debate with tho, cause it is all black/white to them.

congradulations... welcome to life on AFN... if you have a point make it quick and make it fast... threads almost always evolve on here quickly... sometimes for the best,sometimes for the worst.... things that have no real relation to the topic on hand get dragged into the mix (I call those ghost arguments) and by the time the thread dies you would be in shock if you look up at the title.

religion is a tough thing to debate on here. alot of people post with their mind made up before they click "reply" no room to grow. They want ot convert you at all costs to thier own way of thinking or it is a lost cause. I might not agree with atheist,but i love to hear from them the way they think,and what brought them there. You only grow as a person if you open yourself up to others and their own ideas.

the only topic worse than religion to debate on here is politics.


I think it would be WONDERFUL to actually hear an atheist describe the way they think and even more spectacular to hear about any PROOF they have of their (dis)beliefs! Unfortunately, that doesn't happen. The only thing I've ever seen an atheist discuss is how stupid us Christians are.

How 'bout some of that scientific PROOF, y'all. Show me where science has proved there couldn't possibly be a God? Then maybe I'll give you a little more credit for being so sure-fired positive of your advanced intelligence.

I think it would be WONDERFUL to actually hear an atheist describe the way they think and even more spectacular to hear about any PROOF they have of their (dis)beliefs! Unfortunately, that doesn't happen. The only thing I've ever seen an atheist discuss is how stupid us Christians are.

How 'bout some of that scientific PROOF, y'all. Show me where science has proved there couldn't possibly be a God? Then maybe I'll give you a little more credit for being so sure-fired positive of your advanced intelligence.

I have yet to see anyone here claim there couldn't possibly be a God...

It is the same on most forums :)
I am not an atheist, so I find it interesting to debate with atheists to try to understand what pushed them that bit further. I also like to understand why people are on the religious side of agnosticism. The hardcore religious are hard to debate with tho, cause it is all black/white to them.

You ARE an atheist, Ang. Full-fledged, Christian-bashing, hate-filled, my way or the highway ATHEIST. Your posts leave no room to think you have a single doubt in your beliefs.

In fact, I hereby nominate you for Allforums Atheist of the Year Award. Good luck with that... there's tons of competition.

I think it would be WONDERFUL to actually hear an atheist describe the way they think and even more spectacular to hear about any PROOF they have of their (dis)beliefs! Unfortunately, that doesn't happen. The only thing I've ever seen an atheist discuss is how stupid us Christians are.
People don't need proof to believe or disbelieve. I think we can all agree on that already by this point.

I think it would be WONDERFUL to actually hear an atheist describe the way they think and even more spectacular to hear about any PROOF they have of their (dis)beliefs! Unfortunately, that doesn't happen. The only thing I've ever seen an atheist discuss is how stupid us Christians are.

How 'bout some of that scientific PROOF, y'all. Show me where science has proved there couldn't possibly be a God? Then maybe I'll give you a little more credit for being so sure-fired positive of your advanced intelligence.

well to be fair can you show where science has prove there could possibly be a god? I avoided science like the plague in college and i am no bible scholar either,,,,,but i would assume it is be easier to disprove the idea of God then to prove it.... i think when it comes to proving God that is where faith comes in.

You ARE an atheist, Ang. Full-fledged, Christian-bashing, hate-filled, my way or the highway ATHEIST. Your posts leave no room to think you have a single doubt in your beliefs.

In fact, I hereby nominate you for Allforums Atheist of the Year Award. Good luck with that... there's tons of competition.

Sad to see you judge people like that...
You are way off the mark, but you seem to have made up your mind, and I honestly don't care. You have directly expressed that you hate atheists, and if you have to put me in that box, then do whatever you want.

In either case, I won't return the "favour", I like everyone on this forum regardless :)

In fact, I hereby nominate you for Allforums Atheist of the Year Award. Good luck with that... there's tons of competition.

DAMN IT... you girls come out in the forum for a day and your already causing problems...... FREETHINKER has already won "humanist of the year" and "Atheist of the year" I am sorry.... There was already an award ceremony and a $300 dollar a plate dinner for both honors....

Your going to have to wait untill next award season to nominate.

I nominate honorary title for Warrior lol.

I nominate honorary title for Warrior lol.
allthouh i was not here for her reign (i wish i was) i will second that bases on repuation and legend alone!

Sad to see you judge people like that...
You are way off the mark, but you seem to have made up your mind, and I honestly don't care. You have directly expressed that you hate atheists, and if you have to put me in that box, then do whatever you want.

In either case, I won't return the "favour", I like everyone on this forum regardless :)

Oh please... do show me where I've EVER said I hate atheists... or anybody else for that matter. Definitely not my style, Ang. You must have me confused with someone else.

Oh please... do show me where I've EVER said I hate atheists... or anybody else for that matter. Definitely not my style, Ang. You must have me confused with someone else.

As far as I've heard you did a bit of ninja editing, however we all read your posts!

Wait, is there a "Good SMW" and a "Bad SMW"? Maybe it was the "Bad SMW" that did it ;)

well to be fair can you show where science has prove there could possibly be a god? I avoided science like the plague in college and i am no bible scholar either,,,,,but i would assume it is be easier to disprove the idea of God then to prove it.... i think when it comes to proving God that is where faith comes in.

Not at all, LF. You must've missed the discussion yesterday where written proof was submitted as evidence that God exists. (and note, I never asked for SCIENTIFIC proof... however, I would accept that in writing as well if someone would provide me a link.)

Here's my version of proof:

Gen 1:1 IN THE BEGINNING GOD CREATED THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH.

Scoff at whether the Bible is a reliable source or not... it's still a source. And one that's been around for thousands of years. Much more 'proof' than atheists have been able to provide that God does NOT exist.

In fact, I think that's what has them so riled up here today. It's hard to swear on a Bible that something's true if you don't believe in the Bible.

;)
SMW

As far as I've heard you did a bit of ninja editing, however we all read your posts!

Wait, is there a "Good SMW" and a "Bad SMW"? Maybe it was the "Bad SMW" that did it ;)

Nope, there's just one me, Ang and I've never said I HATE anybody. Either prove I have or stop making up things to try and prove some point.

I don't HATE. But I do have very little regard for those who do... especially when they lump whole groups of innocent people into the mix.

Nope, there's just one me, Ang and I've never said I HATE anybody. Either prove I have or stop accusing me of saying things I've never said.

You did and removed it... What can I do?

Funny how you don't have to prove your overly frequent hate accusations tho...

I have yet to see anyone here claim there couldn't possibly be a God...

Now this is really funny. You can't have it both ways, Ang. If you have the slightest doubt about whether or not God exists... you can't possibly refuse to consider that we all might have arrived here due to intelligent design or creationism and not evolution. You seem to be pretty clear in expressing your opinion that people who believe in such nonsense are a few cans short of a six-pack.

Which way is it?

And why would you post that insulting picture of the noodle-god if you have even the slightest tinge of belief in a supreme being?

You did and removed it... What can I do?

Funny how you don't have to prove your overly frequent hate accusations tho...

I don't have to prove anything, dear. You prove my hate accusations are right everytime you've posted on the subject of religion here.

Now this is really funny. You can't have it both ways, Ang. If you have the slightest doubt about whether or not God exists... you can't possibly refuse to consider that we all might have arrived here due to intelligent design or creationism and not evolution. You seem to be pretty clear in expressing your opinion that people who believe in such nonsense are a few cans short of a six-pack.

Which way is it?

And why would you post that insulting picture of the noodle-god if you have even the slightest tinge of belief in a supreme being?

Ah, you have yet not seen the difference between a god as in a supernatural being who set the universe in motion, and the Jewish/Christian/Muslim God. The last one I have no belief in, the first one I'm agnostic to.

So it is not "both ways" its two different concepts.

The proof that evolution is correct in principle proves that creationism is wrong.
The geological proof of the age of the earth proves that young earth theory is wrong.
The lack of proof that there is irreducible design strongly indicates that ID is wrong.
The lack of credibility in the biblical text compared to other texts and the fact that most stories in the bible (OT) are stolen from older cultures indicates that the bible is not trustworthy and the claims in it of Jehova can be taken on faith alone and not on scientific evidence. Indicating that there is no Jehova.

I don't have to prove anything, dear. You prove my hate accusations are right everytime you've posted on the subject of religion here.

Ah, so in your book, disagreement = hate? Then you are equally guilty...

Ah, you have yet not seen the difference between a god as in a supernatural being who set the universe in motion, and the Jewish/Christian/Muslim God. The last one I have no belief in, the first one I'm agnostic to.

So it is not "both ways" its two different concepts.

The proof that evolution is correct in principle proves that creationism is wrong.
The geological proof of the age of the earth proves that young earth theory is wrong.
The lack of proof that there is irreducible design strongly indicates that ID is wrong.
The lack of credibility in the biblical text compared to other texts and the fact that most stories in the bible (OT) are stolen from older cultures indicates that the bible is not trustworthy and the claims in it of Jehova can be taken on faith alone and not on scientific evidence. Indicating that there is no Jehova.

No wonder you're so confused, Ang. There is only ONE God. Different sects have different beliefs, but there is still only ONE God.

And since there are portions of the Bible you find non-trustworthy, you believe the whole thing is a big farce? And not just the Bible.. all religious writings that have survived for eons?

I'd say you have some real problems if you can't let go of the belief that you know more about such a complicated subject than 80% of the world's population.

Heck, maybe we're all wasting our time discussing the subject -- maybe the world should worship YOU! After all, you seem to think you have ALL the answers!!!

:worship:

Ah, so in your book, disagreement = hate? Then you are equally guilty...

Nope.. insults and name-calling = hate.

Pretty simple, eh?

No wonder you're so confused, Ang. There is only ONE God. Different sects have different beliefs, but there is still only ONE God.

Oh yeah?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZVRpqm0Cl0

And since there are portions of the Bible you find non-trustworthy, you believe the whole thing is a big farce? And not just the Bible.. all religious writings that have survived for eons?

Pretty much yeah as for supernatural claims that is...
Although many religious texts contain a lot of philosophy which I can relate to.

I'd say you have some real problems if you can't let go of the belief that you know more about such a complicated subject than 80% of the world's population.

So you are saying 20% of the world have a problem? 1.3 billion people? Nice...
Not like the 80% agree to any significant extent either... That is about the silliest argument I have ever heard for religion.

Heck, maybe we're all wasting our time discussing the subject -- maybe the world should worship YOU! After all, you seem to think you have ALL the answers!!!

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/8655/kettlecy2.jpg

SMW Insult record:
"you're so confused"
"I'd say you have some real problems"
"maybe the world should worship YOU! After all, you seem to think you have ALL the answers!!!"

Edit: Not that being a goddess sounds all that bad :)

Holy crap, this thread goes fast, don't it? :p

I think one of the main misunderstandings many are having here is about "creationism". You can believe that God created the earth without being a creationist. You can be a Christian without being a creationist. You can believe in evolution and still be a Christian.

P.S. - SMW, almost no one thinks that there is absolutely no possibility that there is a god. Even most of the atheists here don't think that and would never say it. They think that the existence of god is unlikely, which does not mean impossible.

Holy crap, this thread goes fast, don't it? :p

I think one of the main misunderstandings many are having here is about "creationism". You can believe that God created the earth without being a creationist. You can be a Christian without being a creationist. You can believe in evolution and still be a Christian.

P.S. - SMW, almost no one thinks that there is absolutely no possibility that there is a god. Even most of the atheists here don't think that and would never say it. They think that the existence of god is unlikely, which does not mean impossible.

Well, DF... if you're right and most people here generally agree there COULD BE a God, all the talk about various religions and evolution and creationism and science vs faith is really a total waste of time, isn't it? Because if there IS a God, then God is the only one who knows for sure how things work. And if there IS a God, posting silly little pictures of 'noodlegod' is blasphemy in the first degree. Not something I care to be a part of.

It's sad, really. I enjoy discussing the philosophy of how the world began... but not when people are so quick to tell you how stupid you are for having faith. And even worse, acting as if they alone know the TRUTH.

Can't speak for anyone else, but I gladly turn this discussion back over to the atheists. It's obviously much more enjoyable for them to bash Christians without actually having to listen to anything Christians have to say.

SMW

I have NEVER seen progress made here in any discussion. So why bother trying.
You're an idiot if you think nobody ever changes his mind or comes to a broader understanding about something as a result of debating here. No, not an idiot, just ignorant.

SMW, that's the fifth time I've seen you use that picture. How 'bout you give it a rest? It's not nearly as awesome as you seem to think it is.

You're an idiot if you think nobody ever changes his mind or comes to a broader understanding about something as a result of debating here. No, not an idiot, just ignorant.

SMW, that's the fifth time I've seen you use that picture. How 'bout you give it a rest? It's not nearly as awesome as you seem to think it is.


I stand corrected then Nappy. I'm glad others change their minds due to the debates here.

Happy now?

You're an idiot if you think nobody ever changes his mind or comes to a broader understanding about something as a result of debating here. No, not an idiot, just ignorant.

SMW, that's the fifth time I've seen you use that picture. How 'bout you give it a rest? It's not nearly as awesome as you seem to think it is.

I'm not sure what picture you're talking about since I haven't posted one in about 100 posts... but if it's the crying baby, I can't stop using it, dear. It just fits so many of you to a TEE!!!!

Here's another one I'm saving for a little closer to election time... but since you're so cranky today, I'll give you a sneak preview:

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t33/texrose752/demsseal.jpg

(like that one better?)

You've used that one before too, I think this is the third.

Must suck not being able to communicate effectively with words. I bet all your books have pictures, too.

You've used that one before too, I think this is the third.

Must suck not being able to communicate effectively with words. I bet all your books have pictures, too.

*yawn*

(you stole that one from me yesterday, so thought I'd return the favor)

SMW's educational reading:
http://i.pricerunner.com/prod/5_6_19_10_i110147335s/product.jpeg

Yea, this thread is moving way to fast.. and there is little to no respect going back and forth. SMW, you need to quit... you give other christians a bad rap by your claiming to KNOW that God is there and created us. We DON'T know.. we believe...

Another thing that kinda irked me was touched on... how athiests have that "holier than thou" attitude, and us believers are so "weak-minded".... Many bright, intelligent people believe in God... deal with it. Get off your high horse.

What i'm saying is.. BOTH SIDES... STOP THE VERBAL VIOLENCE!!!

What i'm saying is.. BOTH SIDES... STOP THE VERBAL VIOLENCE!!!
Nah, this is way too much fun.

Yea, this thread is moving way to fast.. and there is little to no respect going back and forth. SMW, you need to quit... you give other christians a bad rap by your claiming to KNOW that God is there and created us. We DON'T know.. we believe...
You're absolutely right. There is no rational knowledge of god. There is faith, and belief, which is irrational by nature. That's why I don't understand when some Christians are insulted when their beliefs are called "irrational". I KNOW that my beliefs are irrational; they don't have to be rational. :)

I gave this subject some thought, DF... and just want to express my feelings about whether or not Borg should be required to follow a stricter set of rules than other posters or whether or not mods in general should engage in the same activities as regular members as well as their official duties.

There are a couple of reasons I disagree with your view on this subject.

Number 1 thing is... a mod has the authority to ban another poster... or at least to recommend to the other mods that someone be banned. As touted in another thread, I believe it was Borg who made the statement that he didn't need a REASON to permanently ban anybody... that it wasn't a 'punishment,' simply a way to communicate to someone that they weren't welcome here. (I believe a poster named Jenny was the subject. Since she was before my time, I have no opinion on whether or not she deserved to be permanently banned.)

Number 2 thing is... Borg has access not only to my work IP address, but my home IP address as well. Not saying that he would ever use that information against me (or anyone else here), but the fact remains that he COULD if he wanted to. That's alot of power to allow someone to have over me, and with it, comes at least a little responsibility on his part.

For those two reasons alone, I refuse to sit back quietly and be insulted and/or attacked by Borg. It was enough of a lesson learned when he and the other mods allowed the gang attack on the Colorado thread because, as I was told, I made a volatile accusation (that atheists spread hate, which BTW, I still believe) and deserved whatever I got. Yet, I've been 'warned' to behave for being too tough on Warrior and making a comment to the crybaby Dharma after he put me on ignore. Frogger has been sent to time out for disagreeing with a certain poster as well. Yet ranting maniacs like FT and Shamen are free to say anything they please with NO threats of repercussions at all. Nobody knows what the 'rules' are here, because there are no TOS.

I've accepted the fact that it's open season on Allforums for bashing Christians or Conservatives, but I'll be damned if I take insults from a punk mod who has a severe case of overinflated importance without at least protesting his inability to treat me with the same respect you seem to think he deserves.

Sorry to decline your 'wish' that I ignore Borg's mod status. However ridiculous it may be to put such an immature person 'in charge', he represents some form of 'authority' here and I don't believe he deserves to abuse posters while hiding behind that 'mod badge.'

'nuff said?

;)
SMW

I haven't always agreed with Borg. we have had our little pissing contests before,and i imagine we will have a few again.... Anyways during our little squabbles i would hurl insults back and forth at him,and he would do the same..... but never once through all of it the though never crossed my mind that i should be careful because he is a mod or that my own repercussions could be harsh down the road because he is a mod. Him being a mod never even crossed my mind. Of course i recognize him as one... but some of the issues we have had he could of easily came at me as a mod and it would of ended it right there. Game over for me... But he came after me like a poster and i handled it like a debate with a poster...

I think borg does well with his little balance... he might get a little testy and use harsh wordings when talking about dealing with some mod issues,but he doesn't abuse power. Not once that i have seen

Yea, this thread is moving way to fast.. and there is little to no respect going back and forth. SMW, you need to quit... you give other christians a bad rap by your claiming to KNOW that God is there and created us. We DON'T know.. we believe...

Another thing that kinda irked me was touched on... how athiests have that "holier than thou" attitude, and us believers are so "weak-minded".... Many bright, intelligent people believe in God... deal with it. Get off your high horse.

What i'm saying is.. BOTH SIDES... STOP THE VERBAL VIOLENCE!!!

Again with the accusations, and what about the high horse?

not accusations... fact. Go back and read the freakin thread. It's all been said.

not accusations... fact. Go back and read the freakin thread. It's all been said.
Atheists may be on a "high horse", but if they are then so are Christians (at least the ones in this thread). Like you said before, BOTH sides are equally guilty of condescension and "verbal violence". You could say the same about conservatives and liberals, or anyone else with opinions that they're expressing in a discussion/argument. Everyone who expresses their opinion thinks that they are RIGHT, and their opponents are WRONG. That's what it means to have an opinion.

not accusations... fact. Go back and read the freakin thread. It's all been said.

Why not stick to the topic instead of getting so damn emotional? What are you afraid of? That we are right?
What is it that is so threatening to you Christians about someone who doesn't believe what you do?

That we are right?

what exactly are you? You said before you were not atheist but like to argue their point of view and you also showed interest in understanding why people are on the religious side of agnosticism. I am just curious

what exactly are you? You said before you were not atheist but like to argue their point of view and you also showed interest in understanding why people are on the religious side of agnosticism. I am just curious

Slightly on the atheist side of agnostic.

I don't know whether the universe (big bang) was set in motion or just happened.

As for Christianity, I see absolutely no reason to believe in their claims nor do I believe that the bible is anything more than an old book of stories, like the thousands of other mythical stories we have from that era and area. I find it interesting to notice how many of the old biblical stories are almost exact replicas of older stories from nearby cultures.

I didn't say I like to argue the atheist point of view, I meant that I like to ask direct investigating questions that doesn't necessarily reflect my own view. I run the same process on my own beliefs. I believe an intellectual person should always challenge their own beliefs as well as others.

Decka, I respect your comments and agree that some may think my actions here are un-Christian. But one thing I'd like for you to keep in mind. I don't necessarily consider myself a "Christian" in the sense that I'm speaking for an organized religious group and 'spouting off' their dogma. I'm speaking for myself, as a person who believes in GOD. That's all. And I've certainly never claimed to know all the answers. All I've claimed is that the Bible says God exists. And I happen to believe the Bible is a reliable source of historical information about creation. So if you don't mind, I'll continue to express my opinions here... just like everyone else feels free to do. However, I will add that if I were a church-going Christian, I'd be totally out of line. Not for speaking of my faith... but for congregating with atheists. I know of no church that believes that's a good idea. And I can certainly understand why.

There is one point I want to make about my earlier exchange with DF regarding people who talk like atheists, but actually aren't sure whether or not there's a God. Something I've heard more than one preacher say. There is no middle ground for believing in God. Either you're for God or you're against God. Being a little bit of a believer is like being a little bit pregnant. It's just not possible. Sure, lots of believers go thru periods when they have doubts. More often than not, they reach out for answers and find them. Having faith doesn't come naturally... one has to make a conscience decision to believe. It's called turning your life over to God and trying to live so that if you face Him someday, you won't have to hang your head in shame.

I didn't come here to discuss whether or not fish grew legs and crawled out of the water and eventually became man. Nor did I come here to discuss the pros and cons of Christianity vs Judism, or argue about the wonderful advances being made by scientists. I came here to state why I believe in God. And I have, so I really have nothing further to add to the discussion.

I apologize to those I might have offended. And I pray for those who offended me. I wish you all peace and happiness, whatever road you decide to take.

SMW

P.S. to LiquidFork -- I'm glad you've had pleasant experiences with the mods here. While they've warned me several times to stop, they've never lifted a finger to warn someone to stop verbally abusing me, and in fact, have often jumped in during a heated discussion to assist others with the verbal abuse. It's a free site and I'm free to leave anytime I like, so I really don't pay much attention to them. But that doesn't mean I'm not gonna strike back when they jump into the frenzy. I may be outspoken, but I'm not gonna be anybody's doormat. And that includes the young Mr. Borg. ;)

However, I will add that if I were a church-going Christian, I'd be totally out of line. Not for speaking of my faith... but for congregating with atheists. I know of no church that believes that's a good idea. And I can certainly understand why.
Really? Most churches I know of either believe that one should attempt to convert atheists, or else that it's not a big deal. I've never heard of a church that desires to simply avoid atheists. Avoiding atheists is most certainly not something Jesus would do.
There is one point I want to make about my earlier exchange with DF regarding people who talk like atheists, but actually aren't sure whether or not there's a God. Something I've heard more than one preacher say. There is no middle ground for believing in God. Either you're for God or you're against God. Being a little bit of a believer is like being a little bit pregnant. It's just not possible. Sure, lots of believers go thru periods when they have doubts. More often than not, they reach out for answers and find them. Having faith doesn't come naturally... one has to make a conscience decision to believe. It's called turning your life over to God and trying to live so that if you face Him someday, you won't have to hang your head in shame.
This is the kind of attitude that is harmful to our country. Massive partisanism. "You're either with us, or against us." As much as you seem to believe it, I am not your enemy.
P.S. to LiquidFork -- I'm glad you've had pleasant experiences with the mods here. While they've warned me several times to stop, they've never lifted a finger to warn someone to stop verbally abusing me, and in fact, have often jumped in during a heated discussion to assist others with the verbal abuse. It's a free site and I'm free to leave anytime I like, so I really don't pay much attention to them. But that doesn't mean I'm not gonna strike back when they jump into the frenzy. I may be outspoken, but I'm not gonna be anybody's doormat. And that includes the young Mr. Borg. ;)
I'm not interested in anyone becoming a doormat. Allforums is here for people to express their opinions, is it not?

SMW, when you say that there is no middle ground, are you saying that there are no agnostics? I think it's pretty odd to say that it's impossible for someone to be unsure of god. An agnostic basically believes that there is no way to know whether god exists or not. I think it's a valid viewpoint.

There is no middle ground for believing in God. Either you're for God or you're against God. Being a little bit of a believer is like being a little bit pregnant. It's just not possible. Sure, lots of believers go thru periods when they have doubts. More often than not, they reach out for answers and find them. Having faith doesn't come naturally... one has to make a conscience decision to believe. It's called turning your life over to God and trying to live so that if you face Him someday, you won't have to hang your head in shame.



hhmmm.......normally I would agree with this Smarty,but I myself can't seem to find the one way for ME. I'm not saying a god doesn't exist and I'm not saying a god does exist. Therefore,I don't believe either way.
Like I stated before,I'm on the fence about my belief because of things that have happened to me,my family and friends. And because I cannot understand the reason a God would take 7 of my closest friends and 2 beloved relatives all in the space of 2 years.
I have become a little more of a believer than I was even 6 months ago,but I'm still not 100% sure if theres a higher being or what's going on.

So,my question to you is this: In your opinion,what would that make me if there is no middle ground for people and their beliefs?

hhmmm.......normally I would agree with this Smarty,but I myself can't seem to find the one way for ME. I'm not saying a god doesn't exist and I'm not saying a god does exist. Therefore,I don't believe either way.
Like I stated before,I'm on the fence about my belief because of things that have happened to me,my family and friends. And because I cannot understand the reason a God would take 7 of my closest friends and 2 beloved relatives all in the space of 2 years.
I have become a little more of a believer than I was even 6 months ago,but I'm still not 100% sure if theres a higher being or what's going on.

So,my question to you is this: In your opinion,what would that make me if there is no middle ground for people and their beliefs?
Just jumping in with a comment (and I'm not trying to speak for SMW here, only offering my old phartist opinion again)...

One must always continue to question. You cannot "find your way" without searching. What your "way" may be, tends to be fluid... and changes will occur - sometimes slightly and sometimes drastically. The people that puzzle me are those that offer no questions/doubts and only recite rote and verse from EITHER side of the faith debate.

Until some overly sensitive and insecure religious people enetred, we were having a quite interestimg discussion in this thread. If they can't handle it, then by all means go to another topic. For gods sake, you don't have to post here, and if you do, you have to expect getting a reply, especially when you start arguing with those of us who disagrees with religion.
I care not if you disagree with religion(s) or not. My post here was related to the attacking of one's faith, not religion and dogma. And no, they are not the same. Try to have as open a mind as you wish those "on the other side of the fence" had. It works both ways.

I would highly recommend looking up some of Blob's threads in this section of allforums. He is an atheist that makes you think without getting defensive.

Just jumping in with a comment (and I'm not trying to speak for SMW here, only offering my old phartist opinion again)...

One must always continue to question. You cannot "find your way" without searching. What your "way" may be, tends to be fluid... and changes will occur - sometimes slightly and sometimes drastically. The people that puzzle me are those that offer no questions/doubts and only recite rote and verse from EITHER side of the faith debate.


I've always questioned my beliefs,it's just gotten stronger in the last 2 years.
I like to think I've led a pretty good moral life up to now without being totally for or totally against God.
I'll keep searching and maybe one day find what I am looking for.


And OP,I always value anyones opinion whether I agree with them or not,and have found that 9 times out of 10 you are dead on. :hug: I am just curious as to what Smarty thinks about that is all.

Why not stick to the topic instead of getting so damn emotional?

emotional? I wasn't aware you could read my emotions over a computer. I simply stated that everything I said had already been said earlier in the thread... and I said the word "freakin'"... sorry if that "blew your mind"... LOL

What are you afraid of?
That we are right?

I take it that by assuming the "we" title that you have sided yourself as an athiest, or at least saying there is no God. You very well could be right, but if you ARE right, then we lead a pointless existence that will end and then lights out forever. If people of religion are right, you can have eternal life and live forever, just in a different form. I'd say, even if you are doing it to look out for your own ass, that it's a safe play to believe in God, because even if you are wrong, you ended up just like the athiest. But then again, some people have this egotistical realm that they just have to claim supreme knowledge, or when things can't be explained that it MUST be scientific. It's not the message that is egotistical, it's the way it's presented mostly.


What is it that is so threatening to you Christians about someone who doesn't believe what you do?

Nothing is threatening on my front..

Many christians are tempted by their own ego because THEY want to be responsible for someone's conversion to christianity. So they come on super strong and say anything that isn't what they believe is wrong. Those christians are idiots. They need to know how to relate to those who don't believe the same ideology.

Why are you showing psychological timidness and going on the attack, trying to label me as threatened, afraid, etc? It's pretty obvious, just to let you know. While you were only "asking a question"... sometimes when a question is asked, the damage is already done. I really don't see a need to ask any of those questions.. they kinda came out of left field.. mind telling me where indeed they DID come from?

s well if someone would provide me a link.)

Here's my version of proof:



Scoff at whether the Bible is a reliable source or not... it's still a source. And one that's been around for thousands of years. Much more 'proof' than atheists have been able to provide that God does NOT exist.

SMW

I can't believe that you used the bible to prove the bible (circular logic). Makes me sad. What's more disturbing is that you don't see the missing logic. This is most troublesome and dangerous thought process for the human race going forward. Even most "intelligent" christians have stopped using this argument realizing that it is illogical.

There have been other books around longer than the bible, that does not make them true. I won't put that winky smiley thingy.

SE Woman Says Four Daughters Were 'Possessed'
Girls Might Have Died in May

A Southeast Washington DC woman accused of killing her four daughters told police that they were "possessed by demons" and that they had been dead for at least four months before marshals found their bodies, according to police and charging papers filed yesterday.

Authorities said they believe the girls, ages 5, 6, 11 and 17, could have been killed as early as May, noting that the bodies were in an advanced stage of decomposition when discovered Wednesday by marshals serving eviction papers at the two-story brick rowhouse. The mother, Banita Jacks, lived a hermitic existence with the bodies upstairs, in a house that had its electricity cut off in September.

Authorities said that Jacks has denied killing the children and said they died in their sleep. Prosecutors said evidence shows otherwise. Brittany Jacks, 17, had three puncture wounds consistent with a stabbing near the neck, they said. Tatianna Jacks, 11, and N'Kiah Fogle, 6, had marks suggesting they were strangled. Aja Fogle, 5, had less-pronounced marks consistent with strangling and signs of blunt-force trauma to the back of her head, prosecutors said.

Really? Most churches I know of either believe that one should attempt to convert atheists, or else that it's not a big deal. I've never heard of a church that desires to simply avoid atheists. Avoiding atheists is most certainly not something Jesus would do.

I suggest you try reading up (http://www.bibleforums.org/forum/index.php)about Christian beliefs regarding converting atheists, Borg. I can't really speak for other religious groups, because I'm not familiar with them. Every church I've ever been involved with encourages their congregation to help save people who are 'lost,' but while having no 'official policy' regarding atheists, definitely does not encourage their members to go out and 'convert an atheist'. One of the reasons for the "If you're not FOR God, you're AGAINST God" sermon is that many religious people not only believe in Christ, they also believe in Anti-Christ/Satan/Devil/whatever. Really not much of an argument to say if there is such a thing, he/she/it is undoubtedly a non-believer and no church would take the chance of pitting a faithful member against that kind of challenge.

This is the kind of attitude that is harmful to our country. Massive partisanism. "You're either with us, or against us." As much as you seem to believe it, I am not your enemy.

And I am not your enemy. Also... I didn't write the sermon I talked about. But since I've heard the same message more than once, I will admit it's something I think about now and then. No doubt that's the goal of the whole concept -- to make people THINK about their beliefs!

I'm not interested in anyone becoming a doormat. Allforums is here for people to express their opinions, is it not?

Yes, it is. But I would really appreciate if you would come up with less insulting comments than things like "poor persecuted Christian" when I protest people using terms like weak-minded, unintelligent moron to describe my opinions. I don't mind holding my own against verbal taunting, but I resent your adding to it. I don't think it's too much to ask that you refrain from insulting me... and I promise to refrain from insulting you as well.

Peace, brother. Life's too short to make enemies.

SMW

[QUOTE=hclager]SE Woman Says Four Daughters Were 'Possessed'




QUOTE]

That's her story.

I take it that by assuming the "we" title that you have sided yourself as an athiest, or at least saying there is no God. You very well could be right, but if you ARE right, then we lead a pointless existence that will end and then lights out forever. If people of religion are right, you can have eternal life and live forever, just in a different form. I'd say, even if you are doing it to look out for your own ass, that it's a safe play to believe in God, because even if you are wrong, you ended up just like the athiest. But then again, some people have this egotistical realm that they just have to claim supreme knowledge, or when things can't be explained that it MUST be scientific. It's not the message that is egotistical, it's the way it's presented mostly.

It is quite arrogant to claim that life without god is pointless. I have no problem seeing a point with life without a god. Both you and SMW are so quick to state absolutes without no backing up. And why would it be "safe play" to believe in god just in case? Why waste time and energy on something that I find illogical and irrelevant? Why fake faith?

Nothing is threatening on my front..

Many christians are tempted by their own ego because THEY want to be responsible for someone's conversion to christianity. So they come on super strong and say anything that isn't what they believe is wrong. Those christians are idiots. They need to know how to relate to those who don't believe the same ideology.

I actually have to disagree with you there, I find moderate religion quite odd. What gives you the right to cherry pick the bible? Either you believe it or you don't. The bible tells you that your life purpose as a christian is to convert people. People who actually do are being honest to their religion, and as much as I cant stand when they do it, I got to admire their commitment to the cause.

(Not gonna comment on personal accusation anymore, so you might as well save yourself the typing, but I would like to continue this discussion on a non personal level as an intellectual debate.)

Decka, I respect your comments and agree that some may think my actions here are un-Christian. But one thing I'd like for you to keep in mind. I don't necessarily consider myself a "Christian" in the sense that I'm speaking for an organized religious group and 'spouting off' their dogma. I'm speaking for myself, as a person who believes in GOD. That's all. And I've certainly never claimed to know all the answers. All I've claimed is that the Bible says God exists. And I happen to believe the Bible is a reliable source of historical information about creation. So if you don't mind, I'll continue to express my opinions here... just like everyone else feels free to do. However, I will add that if I were a church-going Christian, I'd be totally out of line. Not for speaking of my faith... but for congregating with atheists. I know of no church that believes that's a good idea. And I can certainly understand why.

You are absolutely right, there are no black and whites here, pure atheists versus pure theists. People have different opinions and no one is obligated to represent a set of collective views.

There is one point I want to make about my earlier exchange with DF regarding people who talk like atheists, but actually aren't sure whether or not there's a God. Something I've heard more than one preacher say. There is no middle ground for believing in God. Either you're for God or you're against God. Being a little bit of a believer is like being a little bit pregnant. It's just not possible. Sure, lots of believers go thru periods when they have doubts. More often than not, they reach out for answers and find them. Having faith doesn't come naturally... one has to make a conscience decision to believe. It's called turning your life over to God and trying to live so that if you face Him someday, you won't have to hang your head in shame.

I disagree that you are either for or against God, I'm not against God, I don't believe he exists and therefore I cannot be against him.

I apologize to those I might have offended. And I pray for those who offended me. I wish you all peace and happiness, whatever road you decide to take.

I don't take offense in a discussion on the internet, so don't worry about me at least :)

Yeah I wanna know how she measures brightness. I mean I was a lil ms 4.0...deans honors....
That means nothing to Angelina, for I'd be willing to guarantee that her basic education (by virtue of where she's from alone) was far better than yours. You were probably studying mathematics in high school that she'd already completed by 7th grade (or the Norwegian equivalent). When I attended high school 12 years ago, I graduated from (at the time) the 2nd highest scoring high school (aptitude wise) in the state of Illinois (Hinsdale), and I know (for a fact) her curriculum was tougher than mine.

Don't believe me? Check the rankings locally and internationally. She grew up speaking a foreign language, and her English is better than 50% of the people who post here. Go figure, eh?

That means nothing to Angelina, for I'd be willing to guarantee that her basic education (by virtue of where she's from alone) was far better than yours. You were probably studying mathematics in high school that she'd already completed by 7th grade (or the Norwegian equivalent). When I attended high school 12 years ago, I graduated from (at the time) the 2nd highest scoring high school (aptitude wise) in the state of Illinois (Hinsdale), and I know (for a fact) her curriculum was tougher than mine.

Don't believe me? Check the rankings locally and internationally. She grew up speaking a foreign language, and her English is better than 50% of the people who post here. Go figure, eh?

Well, our media is full of people complaining how bad our schools are. :)
As for the second language, we started learning English in 4th grade. I have however lived 2 years in Australia, so I have a slight advantage over my fellow Norwegians.

As for the "brightness" comment, I find it a bit entertaining that people seem to focus on that option rather than the other alternative in my post about being irrational. What I mean by "not bright" is a person who never have shown any interest in understanding anything at all. People that surf through life without education (beyond the legal minimum) and never read. I have a couple of friends like that.

That means nothing to Angelina, for I'd be willing to guarantee that her basic education (by virtue of where she's from alone) was far better than yours. You were probably studying mathematics in high school that she'd already completed by 7th grade (or the Norwegian equivalent). When I attended high school 12 years ago, I graduated from (at the time) the 2nd highest scoring high school (aptitude wise) in the state of Illinois (Hinsdale), and I know (for a fact) her curriculum was tougher than mine.

Don't believe me? Check the rankings locally and internationally. She grew up speaking a foreign language, and her English is better than 50% of the people who post here. Go figure, eh?

How mean of you, Prae. Really... what's gotten into you that you feel it necessary to put people down? Or are you just trying to impress the lady from Finland?

Education is a fine thing, but even a lifetime of schooling can't make up for a lack of common sense.

Or unprovoked nastiness, for that matter.

Shame on you.

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t33/texrose752/twak.gif
SMW

That means nothing to Angelina, for I'd be willing to guarantee that her basic education (by virtue of where she's from alone) was far better than yours. You were probably studying mathematics in high school that she'd already completed by 7th grade (or the Norwegian equivalent). When I attended high school 12 years ago, I graduated from (at the time) the 2nd highest scoring high school (aptitude wise) in the state of Illinois (Hinsdale), and I know (for a fact) her curriculum was tougher than mine.

Don't believe me? Check the rankings locally and internationally. She grew up speaking a foreign language, and her English is better than 50% of the people who post here. Go figure, eh?


Thanks for the info.

You think she's smarter then most of us around here. Good for you!

Thanks for the info.

You think she's smarter then most of us around here. Good for you!

Science and religion are big interests of mine, of course I know a lot about it... Been reading up on it my entire life. Why is that so bad? Ignorance is not a virtue you know :)

Thanks for the info.

You think she's smarter then most of us around here. Good for you!

I think he's just going for prick points, Musiq. Sweep her off her feet, so to speak.

Whatta ham.

:lolhit:

Science and religion are big interests of mine, of course I know a lot about it... Been reading up on it my entire life. Why is that so bad?


who said it was bad??

I think he's just going for prick points, Musiq. Sweep her off her feet, so to speak.

Whatta ham.

:lolhit:


Maybe she can wear her boots for him.

:rolleyes:

who said it was bad??

It just comes across as a bad thing when people constantly make it a point.

Maybe she can wear her boots for him.

:rolleyes:

Hah, funny :)

Or are you just trying to impress the lady from Finland?
:rolleyes:

What's your proof? The Bible?
Education is a fine thing, but even a lifetime of schooling can't make up for a lack of common sense.
Maybe, but it certainly can't hurt it's development. Of course, OTOH, a lifetime of indoctrination is almost guaranteed to stifle it.
Or unprovoked nastiness, for that matter.
You may think what I said was "nasty", but unfortunately, it's a fact. Look it up. Perhaps you didn't like how bluntly I put it. I even went so far to say that MY education wasn't as good as hers. By parallel, was I being "nasty" to myself???

It is quite arrogant to claim that life without god is pointless.

Well, that's my opinion of course.. and just on a separate point.. wouldn't it be? Once you die, nothing you did matters, because you are dead. Nothing, nada, zilch remains. I dunno, that's just my thoughts.

I have no problem seeing a point with life without a god. Both you and SMW are so quick to state absolutes without no backing up.

Please don't lump me into a group with SMW, she is so offensive and aggressive with her claims, I would hope you would notice a difference, it's pretty obvious. While we both believe, we both approach how we state our beliefs in complete different fashions. And what absolutes did I state?

And why would it be "safe play" to believe in god just in case? Why waste time and energy on something that I find illogical and irrelevant? Why fake faith?

I was just playing devil's advocate, no pun intended. But hey, if you are going to die anyway.. why "waste time and energy" on ANYTHING? because it all just becomes irrelevant anyways, at least for the individual. Of course, you can be an inspiration to generations to come, like the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.. and pretty much give your life to a cause.



I actually have to disagree with you there, I find moderate religion quite odd. What gives you the right to cherry pick the bible?

When did I cherry pick the bible? The book is open to multiple ways of interpretation...

Either you believe it or you don't.

I thought there were "agnostics" like yourself.. people who aren't sure.

The bible tells you that your life purpose as a christian is to convert people. People who actually do are being honest to their religion, and as much as I cant stand when they do it, I got to admire their commitment to the cause.

I have to say your idea of "the purpose of a christian" isn't correct. We aren't supposed to just "convert people"... while it's encouraged to share God's message, the purpose of a christian is to find his peace and harmony with God, so that such inner love and fondness would show through his actions and deeds. It's not just doing good things that gets you into heaven.. the good deeds come from the inside out.. not the other way around. It is a complete commitment, and i'm glad you can at least admire people who take on the burden of being a christian and not enjoying many of the so-called luxuries of life. Just because something is fun and feels good doesn't make it right.

(Not gonna comment on personal accusation anymore, so you might as well save yourself the typing, but I would like to continue this discussion on a non personal level as an intellectual debate.)

That's fine.. you did accuse me of multiple things, like being afraid and being threatened.. and I asked why you said those things... but hey, if you don't want to answer thats fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelinaC
I have no problem seeing a point with life without a god. Both you and SMW are so quick to state absolutes without no backing up.

Please don't lump me into a group with SMW, she is so offensive and aggressive with her claims, I would hope you would notice a difference, it's pretty obvious. While we both believe, we both approach how we state our beliefs in complete different fashions. And what absolutes did I state?

Gee, thanks for support, Decka. Hopefully someday I'll have the opportunity to return the favor.

SMW

It's a good thing he's not a mod, eh?

It's a good thing he's not a mod, eh?

It's sad that he claims to be a believer, but doesn't seem to mind passing judgment on another believer. Guess he's right... we both approach how we state our beliefs in totally different fashions.

well SMW, you passed judgement on Angelina and all the others who choose not to believe.

You can believe what you want, and you can express your message, but don't ridicule their way of life if they don't want to take up what your talking about.

Well, that's my opinion of course.. and just on a separate point.. wouldn't it be? Once you die, nothing you did matters, because you are dead. Nothing, nada, zilch remains. I dunno, that's just my thoughts.

Please don't lump me into a group with SMW, she is so offensive and aggressive with her claims, I would hope you would notice a difference, it's pretty obvious. While we both believe, we both approach how we state our beliefs in complete different fashions. And what absolutes did I state?

I was just playing devil's advocate, no pun intended. But hey, if you are going to die anyway.. why "waste time and energy" on ANYTHING? because it all just becomes irrelevant anyways, at least for the individual. Of course, you can be an inspiration to generations to come, like the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.. and pretty much give your life to a cause.



When did I cherry pick the bible? The book is open to multiple ways of interpretation...

I thought there were "agnostics" like yourself.. people who aren't sure.

I have to say your idea of "the purpose of a christian" isn't correct. We aren't supposed to just "convert people"... while it's encouraged to share God's message, the purpose of a christian is to find his peace and harmony with God, so that such inner love and fondness would show through his actions and deeds. It's not just doing good things that gets you into heaven.. the good deeds come from the inside out.. not the other way around. It is a complete commitment, and i'm glad you can at least admire people who take on the burden of being a christian and not enjoying many of the so-called luxuries of life. Just because something is fun and feels good doesn't make it right.


That's fine.. you did accuse me of multiple things, like being afraid and being threatened.. and I asked why you said those things... but hey, if you don't want to answer thats fine. Why would believing that there is no afterlife make the things you do during your life any less meaningful?

"Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?"

This one verse, if taken to heart, would solve lots of problems with the perception of Christians by others.

It's sad that he claims to be a believer, but doesn't seem to mind passing judgment on another believer.
You're fulla shit. And a hypocrite too. I've had many a row with Decka back in the day, and he's never gotten even so much as rude. He does get crude from time to time, but he definitely doesn't judge anyone. He tries to see the best in people, and even if he isn't the brightest bulb in the box, he is both kind and compassionate. Qualities you sorely lack.

Great post, Nappy. :)

You're fulla shit. And a hypocrite too. I've had many a row with Decka back in the day, and he's never gotten even so much as rude. He does get crude from time to time, but he definitely doesn't judge anyone. He tries to see the best in people, and even if he isn't the brightest bulb in the box, he is both kind and compassionate. Qualities you sorely lack.

Judging others is Good.It's what makes Oprah a Joke.
She chooses to just let everyone and everything be a victim,as
in we're all just Victims so lets just ALL get along.
A truly Lame and worthless claim to Fame.
Crying on cue and playin the victim,does seem to work for
those Pansy,easily exploitable who can't manage to think beyond
faux tears and phony heartstrings.
Just like this Obama phenom.We're just supposed to take this
skinny punk at face value base on what Oprah says.
What about his Muslim upbringing.His own Reverend insists on
an ALL BLACK everything.Plus Obam refuses to wear a 9/11
American Patriot pin.

Judging others is Good.
I agree. What I can't stand is morons who like to say they don't judge people, but then go on judging every single person they meet. It really gets my goat.

I agree. What I can't stand is morons who like to say they don't judge people, but then go on judging every single person they meet. It really gets my goat.

Judging is a good thing.I expect to be judged.
It's what seperates an Adult from a Teenager.
But our culture is being prepped to be extremely Tolerant,as
by Oprah/Springer/Maury.Lest we be judged,ourselves,even more harshly.

Judging is a good thing.I expect to be judged.
It's what seperates an Adult from a Teenager.
But our culture is being prepped to be extremely Tolerant,as
by Oprah/Springer/Maury.Lest we be judged,ourselves,even more harshly.Maybe you watch too much daytime TV. :)

Maybe you watch too much daytime TV. :)

Maybe you don't wear shoes,either.
Just Fuzzy pink slippers all day long.
Ever done thought a dat.?

Never thought of sedan in "fuzzy pink slippers"... jeez, I certainly hope that is not the case... I would lean more toward him wearing... maybe black crocs?

Never thought of sedan in "fuzzy pink slippers"... jeez, I certainly hope that is not the case... I would lean more toward him wearing... maybe black crocs?

Why do you insist on leaning on him.?
Sounds kinda Faggy ta me.

Never thought of sedan in "fuzzy pink slippers"... jeez, I certainly hope that is not the case... I would lean more toward him wearing... maybe black crocs?
i'm the one with black crocs:woohoo:

i'm the one with black crocs:woohoo:

Now...That's Faggy !

Now...That's Faggy !
they're great for fishing...if they get wet, they don't get soggy.

Never thought of sedan in "fuzzy pink slippers"... jeez, I certainly hope that is not the case... I would lean more toward him wearing... maybe black crocs?Boots or sneakers in the winter, sandals in the summer when I'm not working -- usually as comfortable as I can manage.

I do have slippers, although they're woolen (gray) with leather soles.

Why do you insist on leaning on him.?
Sounds kinda Faggy ta me.
I've got a secret crush on sedan... just don't tell the wife or my kids.

Besides, I only weigh about 190 lbs. I'm not that hard to hold up (unless I've been drinking when posting... just ask Borg).

Boots or sneakers in the winter, sandals in the summer when I'm not working -- usually as comfortable as I can manage.

I do have slippers, although they're woolen (gray) with leather soles.

Ok,I guess we'z all have some xtra time tonight.
Care to go thru yer entire wardrobe,item by item with a
little history as an aside.

I've got a secret crush on sedan... just don't tell the wife or my kids.

Besides, I only weigh about 190 lbs. I'm not that hard to hold up (unless I've been drinking when posting... just ask Borg).

Okey Dokey.I guess we'z all have some spare time.
Care to go thru all the little things that Sedan does that
turn you on.
Don't hole back,now.
Keep it real.

Hmmm... we share almost no common political thoughts. No common ground there. Maybe it's religion... no, not any common ground there either.

ermmm.... hmmmm... I guess I....

sedan is evil! yeah, that's right, I hate his stinkin' guts!

ermmm... no I don't, I guess I just don't agree with him... maybe it's not a love/hate relationship... more of a respect his opinion type.

You ought to try it Foolie! Hell, even you may find some "common ground"!

You're fulla shit. And a hypocrite too. I've had many a row with Decka back in the day, and he's never gotten even so much as rude. He does get crude from time to time, but he definitely doesn't judge anyone. He tries to see the best in people, and even if he isn't the brightest bulb in the box, he is both kind and compassionate. Qualities you sorely lack.

thanks for the complements Napster... respect is a two-way street, and you just got some in my book.

BUT.. don't think that clears you from any further insulting or ridicule for amusement... LOL

Perhaps we are more alike than our earliest posts represent...

BUT.. don't think that clears you from any further insulting or ridicule for amusement... LOL
Haha, if you think you can pull it off, go right ahead! I'd love to see what you come up with! :thumbs:

Hey, I think we both agree that you gotta keep things amusing around here.. but I can't pull a rabbit out of the hat on the spot... the timing and wording has to be right LOL. And I, as always, invite anyone to rip me, as long as it's funny, intellectual, and witty.

Hmmm... we share almost no common political thoughts. No common ground there. Maybe it's religion... no, not any common ground there either.

ermmm.... hmmmm... I guess I....

sedan is evil! yeah, that's right, I hate his stinkin' guts!

ermmm... no I don't, I guess I just don't agree with him... maybe it's not a love/hate relationship... more of a respect his opinion type.

You ought to try it Foolie! Hell, even you may find some "common ground"!

yeah... " common grounds " as in Real Estate talk.
Those areas shared in a Condomonium tenancy.
Like the Janitors washroom.
Yeah...that's it.

Well, that's my opinion of course.. and just on a separate point.. wouldn't it be? Once you die, nothing you did matters, because you are dead. Nothing, nada, zilch remains. I dunno, that's just my thoughts.

Well, I wouldn't say nothing Einstein did mattered after he died. Making a difference in the world is much more of a purpose in life than sitting around waitig to die so you can go to a better place that you don't even know for certain exist. That's just my opinion...

Please don't lump me into a group with SMW, she is so offensive and aggressive with her claims, I would hope you would notice a difference, it's pretty obvious. While we both believe, we both approach how we state our beliefs in complete different fashions. And what absolutes did I state?

Oh, the difference is obvious. As for the absolute I'm referring to both your comments that the bible is true. That is an unfounded absolute.

I was just playing devil's advocate, no pun intended. But hey, if you are going to die anyway.. why "waste time and energy" on ANYTHING? because it all just becomes irrelevant anyways, at least for the individual. Of course, you can be an inspiration to generations to come, like the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.. and pretty much give your life to a cause.


I disagree that your actions in life become irrelevant, we may no longer exist after we're dead, but we do leave something behind.

When did I cherry pick the bible? The book is open to multiple ways of interpretation...

I thought there were "agnostics" like yourself.. people who aren't sure.

Again I must point out I'm agnostic to the existance of a god, I have however no belief whatsoever in the divinity of the bible.

I have to say your idea of "the purpose of a christian" isn't correct. We aren't supposed to just "convert people"... while it's encouraged to share God's message, the purpose of a christian is to find his peace and harmony with God, so that such inner love and fondness would show through his actions and deeds. It's not just doing good things that gets you into heaven.. the good deeds come from the inside out.. not the other way around. It is a complete commitment, and i'm glad you can at least admire people who take on the burden of being a christian and not enjoying many of the so-called luxuries of life. Just because something is fun and feels good doesn't make it right.

How can it be incorrect when you just stated it was open for interpretation? In any case you should know what the final commandments of Jesus. Mark 16 and Acts 2 if my memory serves me right...

That's fine.. you did accuse me of multiple things, like being afraid and being threatened.. and I asked why you said those things... but hey, if you don't want to answer thats fine.

I just see you get overly defensive and I think its a bit of an overreaction. Fortunately it doesn't turn you into a dribbling moron like Frogger...

I'll do my best to avoid offending you, but it is well known in such debates that an anti-religious opinion will always be offensive to most religious people regardless of how you express it.