I wish you would stop bringing up the fact that Borg is a mod, as if that requires him to follow a stricter set of rules than other posters. We all follow the same rules, and mods can engage in the same activities as regular members as well as their official duties.

Mods shouldn't jump in to further instigate discord among posters, DF. Unless, of course, that's why he was chosen to be a mod? He never seems to join any discussion if not for the purpose of fanning the flames. I have no problem with him being a mod... like I said, I think he acts more like a mini-asshole first... his mod duties come in second.

They obviously do not think critically. I would argue that the average IQ of creationists might not be that different than the rest of the population, but they are certainly lacking in critical thinking capacity.

And I would respectfully disagree with you. I was pointing out to Angelina that she insulted me, since I do believe in creationism. I see no point in name-calling just to try and push an agenda onto someone else, which is why she started this thread in the first place. Agreeing to disagree goes a long way, but when the insults start, her argument is lost, in my book.

I hate to say it, but this is true. However, Angelina, you know that you can believe in God AND believe in evolution, right? I think you're assuming that every theist (at least every Christian) here is an evolution denier.

Yes, of course you can, creationism isn't something you have to believe to be a christian. There are a few christian professors teaching science at my uni, not a problem to them.

I bet God has given you a lot of reasons...you have just chosen to see only the bad.

And yes you are entitled to believe what you want but thats not how it is here. If you believe in God you're just wrong.

I like being wrong though!

I don't believe if you believe in god you are wrong...others may but that is not my belief.. everyone is entitled to what they want to believe in..

You quoted me, but didn't read it...
I said:

"Oh, true, people who believe in creationism after reviewing the evidence, are either not very bright or very irrational."

Either OR - it's an insult to those who believe in creationism, either they "aren't very bright or they are very irrational". I read your statement..."not very bright" OR "very irrational"...they are both insults that were not necessary and you are being as judgemental as you claim creationists are.

And I would respectfully disagree with you. I was pointing out to Angelina that she insulted me, since I do believe in creationism. I see no point in name-calling just to try and push an agenda onto someone else, which is why she started this thread in the first place. Agreeing to disagree goes a long way, but when the insults start, her argument is lost, in my book.
The funny thing about evolution, indeed all science, is that there is no useful argument about it unless you're studying it as a scientist. To us laymen...it doesn't really matter if you believe in evolution. It will happen without your belief. Science asks for your eyes, not your faith. Creationists are not using their eyes. Hence, they are not so good at critical thinking, at least on that subject.

And I would respectfully disagree with you. I was pointing out to Angelina that she insulted me, since I do believe in creationism. I see no point in name-calling just to try and push an agenda onto someone else, which is why she started this thread in the first place. Agreeing to disagree goes a long way, but when the insults start, her argument is lost, in my book.
Actually, Borg was the one who started this thread.

SMW - I think you're confused about what mods actually do. Mods are there first and foremost to delete spam and ban spammers (in which they do an excellent job). Their only responsibility as to the behavior of legitimate posters is when someone gets SO out of hand that they become a nuisance to other members (e.g., when Borg banned Shaman for three days after everyone's complaints). Insults are allowed here, as long as they don't go too far. Therefore, it seems a bit silly to think that mods shouldn't be able to join in, or that they have to act "better" than everyone else.

And I would respectfully disagree with you. I was pointing out to Angelina that she insulted me, since I do believe in creationism. I see no point in name-calling just to try and push an agenda onto someone else, which is why she started this thread in the first place. Agreeing to disagree goes a long way, but when the insults start, her argument is lost, in my book.

Then I suggest you look into what creationism and evolution is and look at the scientific base of it. Creationism is not scientific sound in any way. Most people will agree on that, even Christians.

Edit: I didn't start this thread, and I wouldn't start one like this in the first place, but I don't see any reason why I shouldn't post in it. If you were offended by my opinion, I'm sorry, but when it comes to creationism I can't put it more subtly than that...

I can respect that kimi... and for you I am glad you can have that...
For me though I have a hard time because for me to have faith does that not mean I have to give some validity to god being real.. I don't know if I can do that...Why would god let so many terrible things happen in the world if he is real..how do you have faith when a person in the man of god can do such horrific things to people.. spare the rod, spoil the child.. that is twisted...

I think Musiq said it earlier - bad things happen to good people, good things happen to bad people. God gave us a free will. That free will is abused by a lot of people and through cause and effect, bad things happen. People are going to die, get hurt, be crushed emotionally - it's not God being mean, it's life and free will.

I think Musiq said it earlier - bad things happen to good people, good things happen to bad people. God gave us a free will. That free will is abused by a lot of people and through cause and effect, bad things happen. People are going to die, get hurt, be crushed emotionally - it's not God being mean, it's life and free will.

It is definitely not god being mean, I can't see anything suggesting god is involved in any of it at all either way.

Then I suggest you look into what creationism and evolution is and look at the scientific base of it. Creationism is not scientific sound in any way. Most people will agree on that, even Christians.

Edit: I didn't start this thread, and I wouldn't start one like this in the first place, but I don't see any reason why I shouldn't post in it. If you were offended by my opinion, I'm sorry, but when it comes to creationism I can't put it more subtly than that...

I don't need your scientific "proof" of anything. The only reason I posted in this thread was because of your insulting those of us who believe in creationism. There is no reason why you, or any of us, shouldn't post here. I just wish the insults weren't so much a part of what goes on here.

Edit: I apologize for not checking the author of the thread more closely.

It is definitely not god being mean, I can't see anything suggesting god is involved in any of it at all either way.

You made my point. Thanks.

I don't need your scientific "proof" of anything.
And this is why I say you lack critical thinking. You've closed your mind to evolution, that much is obvious. Capice?

I don't need your scientific "proof" of anything.

Well, there you go, that is being irrational. Creationism pose as science, if you believe in it and have no interest in proof, you are being irrational.

I will stand by that opinion regardless, but it isn't my intention to offend you. It seems more like you feel threatened by it, and react based on that. Christians have a tendency to get incredibly defensive when confronted with an irrational belief. I see that as a sign that there is not much to base it on in the first place.

Anyway, I am sorry you got offended, but at least be honest and think about why you took offense...

I don't find "irrational" to be an insult. I know that my belief in God is technically irrational, but faith has nothing to do with logic. It's about a feeling.

Speaking for me...and only me.

Religion is a shame.
You're close. Drop the 'e' on your last word.

You're close. Drop the 'e' on your last word.


omg lol
Well it is a shame that it can be such a sham for some...hehe
Thanks

Mods are there first and foremost....
Not to sidetrack the thread, but I used to say that all the time (as I believe "first and foremost" is a common expression), however the word 'first' is superfluous if it's followed by foremost. Just thought I'd share. :)

Not to sidetrack the thread, but I used to say that all the time (as I believe "first and foremost" is a common expression), however the word 'first' is superfluous if it's followed by foremost. Just thought I'd share. :)
Yes, I realize that it's redundant. I just like the way it sounds (or, in this case, the way it looks).

The only reason I posted in this thread was because of your insulting those of us who believe in creationism.
Did you ever think it was because of the fact that most creationists possess an attitude like this:
I don't need your scientific "proof" of anything.
Yet, you show us a bible, and expect us to shut up if we don't "buy" into your sciolism. Sorry, but you guys are the ones who REFUSE to look at the evidence, not us. Now, that's insulting, IMHO.
There is no reason why you, or any of us, shouldn't post here. I just wish the insults weren't so much a part of what goes on here.
Insults/disagreements, hell....we're splitting hairs here, hun.

(or, in this case, the way it looks).
I do that with my punctuation all the time. :)

Human emotions are observable and also measurable on brainscans and brainchemistry. What more proof do you want from something as abstract as human emotion?

I'm not saying "human emotion".. i'm saying LOVE... no doubt there are brain chemistries that happen when people are attracted to each other, but prove when mutual attraction becomes LOVE, prove "love" exists.



There was indeed a study on it, and a bad one at that. I linked a proper one in another topic, or was it earlier in this one. Anyway it shows that prayer has no measurable effect.

well I've seen ones where it's had a small effect and a few that it had a considerable effect... I guess it depends on what kind of site you are on.


No, I'm just providing rational arguments against irrational superstition.

The world isn't based in rationality.. If humans acted rationally, a lot of us wouldn't be here, and life would be a lot more boring.


Never has and never will be a religion. All you do by comments like that is reveal how little you know about science or that you are one of those who cherry pick out of convenience. I would never argue on a topic I had no knowledge about, that's why you don't see me in teh sports section, or arguing specific US politics.

Science, at least certain parts of it, IS becoming a religion, because people are claiming factual truths based on theory. Like "global warming"... nobody knows for certain the amount of damage humans have on the planet - what percentage. We DO know that greenhouse gases are 95% water vapor, and CO2 makes up about 3% of them. So while CO2 may be rising.. in the grand scheme of things it doesn't seem to be nearly as bad as some make it out to be. Glaciers and Ice caps have receded and melted before, science is using faith to explain that the rise in CO2 is causing the glaciers to melt... and it simply cannot be a cycle which the earth has been going through for years. We just don't know for certain about "global warming"... but certain scientists claim they do. That would be a religion.

You can try to discredit me all you want, but I happen to be somewhat privy to science. I may not be up to your almighty level... [sarcasm}


Fine, but then don't abuse science to support your opinion when you find it convenient. Stick to faith instead.

I'll stick with faith until the day I die.. I'm happy with that. Why can't you just be happy for me, that I've found a base for my life, one that has meaning and one that i've seen results with... why do you have to try to rain on my parade? It's interesting how religious people have to keep their traps shut these days, but science can just spew out anything they want.


You seem to be very confident that these things cannot be explained, what evidence can you provide that clearly shows these are unexplainable? Or is this another "truth" you pulled out of your sleve?

Can you explain cancer being healed overnight? Can you explain how life just exploded on our planet? It seems pretty baffling to me... I'm not the one with the burden of proof here.


Wrong again, they predate all current religions and are merely adopted by them.

I can see by your tone that you have some kind of competitive nature in this argument.. rarely a good sign.

As for the topic, Buddhism is the oldest known religion...


I wasn't saying religion was created to serve a manipulating purpose, just that it has been used for that throughout history as it was a convenient tool already established.

could be, but most of the bible was written and has been solidified years ago, same with the Qu'ran. You don't see new "American bibles" coming out with changed messages and literature.


You are dragging my beliefs through the mud here all the time...

Oh I am? please do tell...


You seem to be a bit blind to what you're doing. You are defending your beliefs by attacking mine, I am merely defending mine in return by trying to correct all the misconceptions you have.

What part of " you can believe what you want to believe" do you not understand. I know why athiests don't believe in God, there isn't sufficient proof. That's fine, but just because I believe in a God does not mean I'm attacking your beliefs. I, as an individual, can believe what I want.. just as you. Stop trying to play the victim.


If they get pissed off I certainly must have hit the nail on the head. Religious argumentation is fundamentally flawed and is very easy to respond to, usually it ends up with the believer getting hurt. I am very well versed in the ways of christianity and know the Bible very well. I have also studied science all my life and I have long found the answers to all those questions for myself. I am also well aware of the hundreds of christian versions and misconceptions of scientific concepts and I have heard them a million times. The sad thing is that your case is built on lies and half trues (when it comes to arguing science that is). Why can't religious people just limit their religion to faith and stop trying to be what it cannot be?

What are my "lies and half truths" in science?

I never said religion was anything more than faith... I suggested theories, but i labeled them as that. And as for pissing people off, I guess Hitler hit the nail on the head if he pissed off all those jews and the entire world. Maybe we should have a supreme race. [sarcasm]

I believe in god, but I don't think that admitting I could be wrong is betrayal. I am an imperfect human and my mind was not created to understand the spiritual or the supernatural. :)

Although I'm not sure I could call myself a theist at the moment. Agnostic might be a better term, but mostly I still say that I believe in god, because I'm almost entirely sure that I do. Can you define what god means to you?

Can you define what god means to you?
That's the sticky part... I've been leaning towards a definition of god as sort of the guiding force in the universe - e.g., God created us by making conditions just right for us to form. I'm less convinced by a personified god.

That's the sticky part... I've been leaning towards a definition of god as sort of the guiding force in the universe - e.g., God created us by making conditions just right for us to form. I'm less convinced by a personified god.Well at least you answered. That is a question I have not had any theist answer. I've been told that's a good question, but never offer an answer. I like this quote about god....... " I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own-a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism. " Einstein

I do think the soul lives on after the death of the body. I'm nowhere near sure, but I have a feeling... Not that I have any idea what happens to it. Reincarnation, heaven, just fluttering around in the sky... Who knows?

I do think the soul lives on after the death of the body. I'm nowhere near sure, but I have a feeling... Not that I have any idea what happens to it. Reincarnation, heaven, just fluttering around in the sky... Who knows? And how do you know you have a soul? And what is a soul? Do you think animals have souls?

those are really questions that can't be answered...

oh wait.. they can.. just watch "ghosthunters" on TV... they find em all the time! LOL

Even though that was a joke, it's also true that "where there is smoke, there is usually fire"... and with the millions of ghost stories reported.. you have to assume that there is some kind of afterlife.. at least I do.

those are really questions that can't be answered...

oh wait.. they can.. just watch "ghosthunters" on TV... they find em all the time! LOL

Even though that was a joke, it's also true that "where there is smoke, there is usually fire"... and with the millions of ghost stories reported.. you have to assume that there is some kind of afterlife.. at least I do. "Millions of ghost stories reported" how do you know that? And just because of ghost stories you believe in some sort of afterlife?

Millions of people have also seen Elvis and bigfoot.

I wish you would stop bringing up the fact that Borg is a mod, as if that requires him to follow a stricter set of rules than other posters. We all follow the same rules, and mods can engage in the same activities as regular members as well as their official duties.

I gave this subject some thought, DF... and just want to express my feelings about whether or not Borg should be required to follow a stricter set of rules than other posters or whether or not mods in general should engage in the same activities as regular members as well as their official duties.

There are a couple of reasons I disagree with your view on this subject.

Number 1 thing is... a mod has the authority to ban another poster... or at least to recommend to the other mods that someone be banned. As touted in another thread, I believe it was Borg who made the statement that he didn't need a REASON to permanently ban anybody... that it wasn't a 'punishment,' simply a way to communicate to someone that they weren't welcome here. (I believe a poster named Jenny was the subject. Since she was before my time, I have no opinion on whether or not she deserved to be permanently banned.)

Number 2 thing is... Borg has access not only to my work IP address, but my home IP address as well. Not saying that he would ever use that information against me (or anyone else here), but the fact remains that he COULD if he wanted to. That's alot of power to allow someone to have over me, and with it, comes at least a little responsibility on his part.

For those two reasons alone, I refuse to sit back quietly and be insulted and/or attacked by Borg. It was enough of a lesson learned when he and the other mods allowed the gang attack on the Colorado thread because, as I was told, I made a volatile accusation (that atheists spread hate, which BTW, I still believe) and deserved whatever I got. Yet, I've been 'warned' to behave for being too tough on Warrior and making a comment to the crybaby Dharma after he put me on ignore. Frogger has been sent to time out for disagreeing with a certain poster as well. Yet ranting maniacs like FT and Shamen are free to say anything they please with NO threats of repercussions at all. Nobody knows what the 'rules' are here, because there are no TOS.

I've accepted the fact that it's open season on Allforums for bashing Christians or Conservatives, but I'll be damned if I take insults from a punk mod who has a severe case of overinflated importance without at least protesting his inability to treat me with the same respect you seem to think he deserves.

Sorry to decline your 'wish' that I ignore Borg's mod status. However ridiculous it may be to put such an immature person 'in charge', he represents some form of 'authority' here and I don't believe he deserves to abuse posters while hiding behind that 'mod badge.'

'nuff said?

;)
SMW

Millions of people have also seen Elvis and bigfoot.

Got any proof of that statement? I kinda doubt it's MILLIONS of people.

Most of the people participating in this thread are NOT atheists, just so you know. I certainly believe in God, Angelina is agnostic, etc.


Ok let me rephrase.

Doesn't matter what you believe you will be ripped apart by negativity.

And this is why I say you lack critical thinking. You've closed your mind to evolution, that much is obvious. Capice?

You don't know what I have closed or not closed my mind to. I simply stated that Angelina insulted me. Capice?

Well, there you go, that is being irrational. Creationism pose as science, if you believe in it and have no interest in proof, you are being irrational.

I will stand by that opinion regardless, but it isn't my intention to offend you. It seems more like you feel threatened by it, and react based on that. Christians have a tendency to get incredibly defensive when confronted with an irrational belief. I see that as a sign that there is not much to base it on in the first place.

Anyway, I am sorry you got offended, but at least be honest and think about why you took offense...

I am being honest about why I took offense. You offended me, as a Christian, with your words and you are smart enough to know what I'm talking about. You are picking and choosing what you want to respond to, while twisting what I've said....something people with a lack of belief tend to do. I never said I discounted evolution. It simply doesn't matter to me where I came from - I still believe in God and I trust Him to guide me. I believe God made the apes that evolutionists believe we descended from. I firmly believe in science and respect the scientific community. My husband is a geologist, working on his PhD in that area. He is also a Christian. Go figure.

I am not a creationist, but I respect their beliefs.

It's free to keep your mouth shut and leave be. No one gives a rat's ass anyway. And no one is going to change.
It'd be nice to see more civil discussion,
but on this topic (religion) forget it.

There's some leading authorities who awe me with their intellect.

I am not a creationist, but I respect their beliefs.

It's free to keep your mouth shut and leave be. No one gives a rat's ass anyway. And no one is going to change.
It'd be nice to see more civil discussion,
but on this topic (religion) forget it.

There's some leading authorities who awe me with their intellect.

That's right. I'm not an evolutionist, but I respect their beliefs. Seems pretty simple to me, huh Ren?

I am not a creationist, but I respect their beliefs.

It's free to keep your mouth shut and leave be. No one gives a rat's ass anyway. And no one is going to change.
It'd be nice to see more civil discussion,
but on this topic (religion) forget it.

There's some leading authorities who awe me with their intellect.

Regardless of what one does or doesn't believe about God, I find the HISTORY of religion to be a fascinating subject, don't you, Ren? Since mentioning the calendar changing from BC to AD, I've been doing a little research into the history of our calendar have come to one definite conclusion. Anyone who doubts the enormous impact religion in general, and Christianity in particular, have had on this world are simply sticking their heads in the sand and refusing to see the obvious proof.

SOMETHING happened in ancient times that totally altered life on earth. One of the more interesting questions I have is this...

If there was no God, no divine inspiration, no 'teacher' named Jesus... how the heck did so many diverse, geographically remote civilizations succeed in accomplishing such feats as compiling a Bible and determining that the calendar should be redesigned around Jesus' birth, etc., etc., etc.... without any one 'leader' to guide them?

I know for certain that mankind couldn't possibly accomplish anything so wonderous today... and we've got leaders coming out our wazoos!

Your thoughts?

:)
SMW

That's right. I'm not an evolutionist, but I respect their beliefs. Seems pretty simple to me, huh Ren?



It should be simple but alot of times it isn't. There are people in this world who just have to be right all the time and those who can't live and let be no matter what.

I may not agree with everyone and everything said here,but I do respect that it's others beliefs and leave it alone.

It should be simple but alot of times it isn't. There are people in this world who just have to be right all the time and those who can't live and let be no matter what.

I may not agree with everyone and everything said here,but I do respect that it's others beliefs and leave it alone.

;) I'll give you a hearty AMEN to that!

Regardless of what one does or doesn't believe about God, I find the HISTORY of religion to be a fascinating subject, don't you, Ren? Since mentioning the calendar changing from BC to AD, I've been doing a little research into the history of our calendar have come to one definite conclusion. Anyone who doubts the enormous impact religion in general, and Christianity in particular, have had on this world are simply sticking their heads in the sand and refusing to see the obvious proof.

SOMETHING happened in ancient times that totally altered life on earth. One of the more interesting questions I have is this...

If there was no God, no divine inspiration, no 'teacher' named Jesus... how the heck did so many diverse, geographically remote civilizations succeed in accomplishing such feats as compiling a Bible and determining that the calendar should be redesigned around Jesus' birth, etc., etc., etc.... without any one 'leader' to guide them?

I know for certain that mankind couldn't possibly accomplish anything so wonderous today... and we've got leaders coming out our wazoos!

Your thoughts?

:)
SMW

I dabble a bit in theology, SMW, and find the history of Christianity as fascinating as you, tho i'm far from an expert. Frogger and Shiloh and a few others probably know a lot more than I do.

I recall reading in one of Mark Twain's books (Innocents Abroad)-- great book, btw, funny as hell---his experiences in the
Holy Land and when he visited Jerusalem.

Twain was an agnostic
/athiest yet he wrote something that always stayed with me. He was writing about his feelings when he saw the accepted place of Jesus' crucifixion. He wrote--Something happened there--something that so awed the people who saw it that they remembered it forever.

I would have liked to have known Jesus Christ, and lived during those times. In a way, tho, I still feel I know him.:)

I dabble a bit in theology, SMW, and find the history of Christianity as fascinating as you, tho i'm far from an expert. Frogger and Shiloh and a few others probably know a lot more than I do.

I recall reading in one of Mark Twain's books (Innocents Abroad)-- great book, btw, funny as hell---his experiences in the
Holy Land and when he visited Jerusalem.

Twain was an agnostic
/athiest yet he wrote something that always stayed with me. He was writing about his feelings when he saw the accepted place of Jesus' crucifixion. He wrote--Something happened there--something that so awed the people who saw it that they remembered it forever.

I would have liked to have known Jesus Christ, and lived during those times. In a way, tho, I still feel I know him.:)

Great Twain story. And I totally agree with his musings... something happened back then. Something big enough that multitudes of people worked years and years to get a description in writing so that we could read about it today. I've seen 'mass hysteria' used to explain riots and looting and the crushing of innocent bystanders when soccer games got out of control... but I simply can't accept that as an explanation of what happened in ancient times.

:flowers:
SMW

You don't know what I have closed or not closed my mind to. I simply stated that Angelina insulted me. Capice?
You insulted me by being insulted! I'm offended! Really offended!

I don't think the atheists here are denying the impact of Christianity. I think it's that they do not like the consequences of some of these impacts. This certainly holds true for myself.

I don't have a problem with a religious person's belief. But if that belief leads this person to do things that negatively effect me (directly or not e.g. by being the cultural majority), then I have a problem with it.

For example if you live in 1645 and fit the description of a "witch", you are going to hate the people who believe in that shit (incidentally not really Christianity par excellence), doesn't matter if it makes sense or if it's true.

There seems to be some confusion between religion and faith here.

I feel it is perfectly acceptable to question and even disparage religion and the things that are done in "the name of". I have often been very critical of my own religion and denomination. I will never defend any religion for doing something that is, in my opinion, wrong. When someone decries that a particular group of Christians has (or is) doing something that I find reprehensible, in the name of religion, I'll be the first to condemn them.

One can attack the dogma and actions of specific groups or individuals for their religion, but to attack the personal faith of that individual or group is wrong. I'm not a creationist, but it's fine if you believe that. I would only object if you were to try to "force" others to believe your way also. Same for spontaneous evolution, until there is a provable thesis on organic from inorganic matter, we just don't know.

As far as individual faith, this is another matter entirely.

The current "picking" apart of people's individual faith depresses me. What is the purpose of it? It's like the "friend" that constantly tries to show someone that their spouse does not love them. What purpose does this serve? To make another miserable? For the "friend" to prove how "smart" they are? To destroy anothers happiness, since misery loves company?

That is the issue for me. If another person believes in something that I do not, and that person is happily conducting their life without damaging mine (or others), why would I want to try to put them "in their place"?

That is the question we should all ask ourselves.

You insulted me by being insulted! I'm offended! Really offended!

Then my work here is done.:rolleyes:

I don't think the atheists here are denying the impact of Christianity. I think it's that they do not like the consequences of some of these impacts. This certainly holds true for myself.

I don't have a problem with a religious person's belief. But if that belief leads this person to do things that negatively effect me (directly or not e.g. by being the cultural majority), then I have a problem with it.

For example if you live in 1645 and fit the description of a "witch", you are going to hate the people who believe in that shit (incidentally not really Christianity par excellence), doesn't matter if it makes sense or if it's true.

Interesting, Dio. I can truly understand how non-believers would fear living in 1645. But since that's certainly not relevant in today's times... what is it about Christians that makes you fear the consequences of their power over you today?

The current "picking" apart of people's individual faith depresses me. What is the purpose of it?
We're discussing religion in a religion forum. Don't like it? Stick to politics.

I'm not saying "human emotion".. i'm saying LOVE... no doubt there are brain chemistries that happen when people are attracted to each other, but prove when mutual attraction becomes LOVE, prove "love" exists.

But love IS a human emotion, are you deifying that too?

well I've seen ones where it's had a small effect and a few that it had a considerable effect... I guess it depends on what kind of site you are on.

The only proper long term blind study that has been done, shows no measurable effect. It also establish the question as a very hard one to define in the first place. I'll see if I can dig up the link again.

The world isn't based in rationality.. If humans acted rationally, a lot of us wouldn't be here, and life would be a lot more boring.

The world obeys simple rational laws, humans are often irrational if that is your point...

Science, at least certain parts of it, IS becoming a religion, because people are claiming factual truths based on theory. Like "global warming"... nobody knows for certain the amount of damage humans have on the planet - what percentage. We DO know that greenhouse gases are 95% water vapor, and CO2 makes up about 3% of them. So while CO2 may be rising.. in the grand scheme of things it doesn't seem to be nearly as bad as some make it out to be. Glaciers and Ice caps have receded and melted before, science is using faith to explain that the rise in CO2 is causing the glaciers to melt... and it simply cannot be a cycle which the earth has been going through for years. We just don't know for certain about "global warming"... but certain scientists claim they do. That would be a religion.

The scientists doing legitimate research on this are very careful to state anything conclusive. The climat report has a probability estimation assigned to each prediction made. As I have said before, individual scientists can have many motives for doing and saying what they do, and people have agendas when using scientific data. Science itself us objective tho and about as far from religion by any definition as it can get.

You can try to discredit me all you want, but I happen to be somewhat privy to science. I may not be up to your almighty level... [sarcasm}

Well, you are trying to discredit science based on false information.

I'll stick with faith until the day I die.. I'm happy with that. Why can't you just be happy for me, that I've found a base for my life, one that has meaning and one that i've seen results with... why do you have to try to rain on my parade? It's interesting how religious people have to keep their traps shut these days, but science can just spew out anything they want.

Huh? reality check: Here is the point when you started raining on my parade: http://www.allforums.net/showpost.php?p=436427&postcount=213

Can you explain cancer being healed overnight? Can you explain how life just exploded on our planet? It seems pretty baffling to me... I'm not the one with the burden of proof here.

Can you provide medical documentation that happened? If so there are a number of prices waiting for you. As for the origin of life there are many good sound theories, saying that it was all magic requires equally much proof.

I can see by your tone that you have some kind of competitive nature in this argument.. rarely a good sign.

As for the topic, Buddhism is the oldest known religion...

lol, you made a claim and I argued it, and you accuse me for being competitive? You are quite amusing :)
Anyway, altruism predates the human race, not just religions.


could be, but most of the bible was written and has been solidified years ago, same with the Qu'ran. You don't see new "American bibles" coming out with changed messages and literature.

Are you refuting it is being used to manipulate people?

Oh I am? please do tell...

You said I wasn't respecting your faith, and I'm saying you don't respect mine. I respect your right to believe what you want, but you are the one arguing my views here, I am just defending them against superstition. You on the other hand are attempting to justify superstition by repeatedly dragging science into the same category. If you need to label science as faith to discredit it, it kinda says something about the value you put on faith.

What part of " you can believe what you want to believe" do you not understand. I know why athiests don't believe in God, there isn't sufficient proof. That's fine, but just because I believe in a God does not mean I'm attacking your beliefs. I, as an individual, can believe what I want.. just as you. Stop trying to play the victim.

You are arguing my posts, and I reply in defense. What part of "you can believe what you want to believe" do you not understand?

What are my "lies and half truths" in science?

Claiming there are no valid theories and explanations for a number of things.

I never said religion was anything more than faith... I suggested theories, but i labeled them as that. And as for pissing people off, I guess Hitler hit the nail on the head if he pissed off all those jews and the entire world. Maybe we should have a supreme race. [sarcasm]

So why do you try to rationalize your faith then? Christians always get annoyed when I say that religion is irrational, then they try to rationalize it just to find out that isn't really possible, thus coming full circle and claiming that it is just faith again. Now that is fine, just stick to it from the beginning and save us and yourself the trouble...

You accuse me of a number of things in your posts, you seem to suffer from a bad variant of the pot(kettle syndrome tho. Most accusations you christians come with are things you are guilty of yourself, but you always claim you know the absolute truth and thus have the right, this is something I see in every single discussion like this. It is quite amusing and incredibly shortsighted.

There seems to be some confusion between religion and faith here.

I feel it is perfectly acceptable to question and even disparage religion and the things that are done in "the name of". I have often been very critical of my own religion and denomination. I will never defend any religion for doing something that is, in my opinion, wrong. When someone decries that a particular group of Christians has (or is) doing something that I find reprehensible, in the name of religion, I'll be the first to condemn them.

One can attack the dogma and actions of specific groups or individuals for their religion, but to attack the personal faith of that individual or group is wrong. I'm not a creationist, but it's fine if you believe that. I would only object if you were to try to "force" others to believe your way also. Same for spontaneous evolution, until there is a provable thesis on organic from inorganic matter, we just don't know.

As far as individual faith, this is another matter entirely.

The current "picking" apart of people's individual faith depresses me. What is the purpose of it? It's like the "friend" that constantly tries to show someone that their spouse does not love them. What purpose does this serve? To make another miserable? For the "friend" to prove how "smart" they are? To destroy anothers happiness, since misery loves company?

That is the issue for me. If another person believes in something that I do not, and that person is happily conducting their life without damaging mine (or others), why would I want to try to put them "in their place"?

That is the question we should all ask ourselves.

This ranks as one of the very best posts I've read since joining this place, OP.
I thank you for your eloquence.

There seems to be some confusion between religion and faith here.

I feel it is perfectly acceptable to question and even disparage religion and the things that are done in "the name of". I have often been very critical of my own religion and denomination. I will never defend any religion for doing something that is, in my opinion, wrong. When someone decries that a particular group of Christians has (or is) doing something that I find reprehensible, in the name of religion, I'll be the first to condemn them.

One can attack the dogma and actions of specific groups or individuals for their religion, but to attack the personal faith of that individual or group is wrong. I'm not a creationist, but it's fine if you believe that. I would only object if you were to try to "force" others to believe your way also. Same for spontaneous evolution, until there is a provable thesis on organic from inorganic matter, we just don't know.

As far as individual faith, this is another matter entirely.

The current "picking" apart of people's individual faith depresses me. What is the purpose of it? It's like the "friend" that constantly tries to show someone that their spouse does not love them. What purpose does this serve? To make another miserable? For the "friend" to prove how "smart" they are? To destroy anothers happiness, since misery loves company?

That is the issue for me. If another person believes in something that I do not, and that person is happily conducting their life without damaging mine (or others), why would I want to try to put them "in their place"?

That is the question we should all ask ourselves.

Well said, OP. I previously stated that religion and faith are two different things, IMO. I respect each individual's right to believe in whatever they so choose. I truly enjoy learning where other people come from, in their beliefs, ideas, etc. When it turns to insults and nastiness, though, the entire subject goes down the tube, and "discussion" becomes impossible.

I generally enjoy reading your posts, and I generally stay out of this section of the forum, except to read what goes on and how others perceive things.

We're discussing religion in a religion forum. Don't like it? Stick to politics.

No, we are confusing faith with religion.

Oh give me a break! Start a faith forum then!

There seems to be some confusion between religion and faith here.

I feel it is perfectly acceptable to question and even disparage religion and the things that are done in "the name of". I have often been very critical of my own religion and denomination. I will never defend any religion for doing something that is, in my opinion, wrong. When someone decries that a particular group of Christians has (or is) doing something that I find reprehensible, in the name of religion, I'll be the first to condemn them.

One can attack the dogma and actions of specific groups or individuals for their religion, but to attack the personal faith of that individual or group is wrong. I'm not a creationist, but it's fine if you believe that. I would only object if you were to try to "force" others to believe your way also. Same for spontaneous evolution, until there is a provable thesis on organic from inorganic matter, we just don't know.

As far as individual faith, this is another matter entirely.

The current "picking" apart of people's individual faith depresses me. What is the purpose of it? It's like the "friend" that constantly tries to show someone that their spouse does not love them. What purpose does this serve? To make another miserable? For the "friend" to prove how "smart" they are? To destroy anothers happiness, since misery loves company?

That is the issue for me. If another person believes in something that I do not, and that person is happily conducting their life without damaging mine (or others), why would I want to try to put them "in their place"?

That is the question we should all ask ourselves.

Good point, OP. As I've said before... why do atheists fear those who would do them no harm? I know of NO religion (at least in this country) where it's part of their 'dogma' to harm people who don't believe the same way they believe. It just doesn't happen.

I believe the 'make another miserable' part has much more to do with a non-believer's own insecurities than an attempt to prove another person wrong for 'scientific' reasons. After all... what could one possibly gain by persuading another person to question their faith?

I am being honest about why I took offense. You offended me, as a Christian, with your words and you are smart enough to know what I'm talking about. You are picking and choosing what you want to respond to, while twisting what I've said....something people with a lack of belief tend to do. I never said I discounted evolution. It simply doesn't matter to me where I came from - I still believe in God and I trust Him to guide me. I believe God made the apes that evolutionists believe we descended from. I firmly believe in science and respect the scientific community. My husband is a geologist, working on his PhD in that area. He is also a Christian. Go figure.

So then what is the problem? If you are not a creationist then you took offense of a post that wasn't directed at you at all...

Oh give me a break! Start a faith forum then!

If you don't have anything to add, why don't you just sit back and read, Nappy. Heaven forbid, you might learn something.

STFU SMW. It's a valid objection. If you don't like discussing religion, (oh heaven forbid! I forgot faith again!) why the fuck do you stay here?

So then what is the problem? If you are not a creationist then you took offense of a post that wasn't directed at you at all...

Where do you get that I am not a creationist? Don't twist words, Angelina. It's very dis-crediting.

It should be simple but alot of times it isn't. There are people in this world who just have to be right all the time and those who can't live and let be no matter what.

I may not agree with everyone and everything said here,but I do respect that it's others beliefs and leave it alone.

This is a discussion forum and we are discussing religion in this topic. If people can't accept other peoples opinions they should stay away from this topic. I accept everyones opinion and respect it, but that doesn't mean that I cannot question it or try to get them to explain why they believe what they do. Afterall that is what we do here. I'm more than ready to defend my views without sorting to immature insults and run around crying over all these mean people...

If your opinion is so weak you have to get offended and defensive, then this is certainly not the topic for you. (In you I don't mean you Michelle, but the posters in general.)

Where do you get that I am not a creationist? Don't twist words, Angelina. It's very dis-crediting.

Because you just said:

"I firmly believe in science and respect the scientific community."

Were you lying?

So then what is the problem? If you are not a creationist then you took offense of a post that wasn't directed at you at all...

Which brings up an interesting question, Ang.

If you're not a believer, why do you take the offensive to 'prove' your point to those of us who do believe? At times, it seems like you're desperate to make sure everyone understands your reverence for scientific studies.

Is it any different for one to be insulted by having their faith questioned than it is for one to be insulted by having their belief in science questioned?

;)
SMW

P.S. BTW, you can say what you like, but if you're an Agnostic, then I'm the Queen of England. Just ain't happening, g/f. You're one of the most obvious Atheists I've ever run across. Wonder why you're hesitant to admit that?

Nappy, let me try to put this in another context.

I'll pick on my wife, bless her heart... she married "down" with me and still puts up with my ornery ass-holiness.

You can argue that my wife is not the most beautiful woman, has the most perfect body, is the most intelligent and wise human in existence, etc. What you cannot do is try to prove (since she isn't all the above), is that I do not love her... and consider her to be the best of all things in my personal life.

Any better?

The current "picking" apart of people's individual faith depresses me. What is the purpose of it? It's like the "friend" that constantly tries to show someone that their spouse does not love them. What purpose does this serve? To make another miserable? For the "friend" to prove how "smart" they are? To destroy anothers happiness, since misery loves company?

That is the issue for me. If another person believes in something that I do not, and that person is happily conducting their life without damaging mine (or others), why would I want to try to put them "in their place"?

Until some overly sensitive and insecure religious people enetred, we were having a quite interestimg discussion in this thread. If they can't handle it, then by all means go to another topic. For gods sake, you don't have to post here, and if you do, you have to expect getting a reply, especially when you start arguing with those of us who disagrees with religion.

I don't think the atheists here are denying the impact of Christianity. I think it's that they do not like the consequences of some of these impacts. This certainly holds true for myself.

I don't have a problem with a religious person's belief. But if that belief leads this person to do things that negatively effect me (directly or not e.g. by being the cultural majority), then I have a problem with it.

.

I think we're all agreed on that, dio.
No one likes being told what to do, how to act, what to think, what to feel, what to believe.

Dammit, it's UN-AMERICAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:drinktoth

STFU SMW. It's a valid objection. If you don't like discussing religion, (oh heaven forbid! I forgot faith again!) why the fuck do you stay here?

I could ask you the same thing... WTF are you doing here if you don't even have an opinion?

Oh yeah, they call it threadjacking, don't they.

Good thing you're exempt from the rules the rest of us have to follow.. or I'm sure you'd receive a warning from the mods.

:slap:

I do have an opinion. A better and more thought out one than yours, the same could be said about any subject. Because guess what, SMW? I'm better than you.

Because you just said:

"I firmly believe in science and respect the scientific community."

Were you lying?

I do believe in science. It IS possible to believe in science AND God, regardless of what you think.

Which brings up an interesting question, Ang.

If you're not a believer, why do you take the offensive to 'prove' your point to those of us who do believe? At times, it seems like you're desperate to make sure everyone understands your reverence for scientific studies.

Is it any different for one to be insulted by having their faith questioned than it is for one to be insulted by having their belief in science questioned?

;)
SMW

P.S. BTW, you can say what you like, but if you're an Agnostic, then I'm the Queen of England. Just ain't happening, g/f. You're one of the most obvious Atheists I've ever run across. Wonder why you're hesitant to admit that?

I'm doing three things here:

1. I am, or was, discussing with other non religious people how religion and psychology are related, the topic started by Borg.

2. Some people found it necessary to come with counterarguments from a religious point of view, which is all well and fine, and we defend our views accordingly.

3. I personally often ask people follow up questions when they put forward their opinion, usually to try to understand their reasons for believing what they do. My follow up questions don't necessarily indicate that I don't agree, it is the same process I use on myself when I think through my opinions. They are usually just rational questions.

Until some overly sensitive and insecure religious people enetred, we were having a quite interestimg discussion in this thread. If they can't handle it, then by all means go to another topic. For gods sake, you don't have to post here, and if you do, you have to expect getting a reply, especially when you start arguing with those of us who disagrees with religion.

Easy there, Ang. You're sliding right back into that bitter atheist posting style. Would it be possible for you to ignore Christians who post things you don't like, or is in your very nature to attack them?

Personally, I welcome input from anybody who has an opinion. Even more so if they happen to be one of those vile Chistians who threaten you so much.

;)

I do believe in science. It IS possible to believe in science AND God, regardless of what you think.

Regardless? Now you're making stuff up, I have never ever stated that you cannot believe in God and science, on the contrary.

I'm starting to wonder if you actually know what the word "creationism" means...

I do have an opinion. A better and more thought out one than yours, the same could be said about any subject. Because guess what, SMW? I'm better than you.


:lolhit:


No I'm better then you. No I am. No me!!!!

go play with your toys little one.

Easy there, Ang. You're sliding right back into that bitter atheist posting style. Would it be possible for you to ignore Christians who post things you don't like, or is in your very nature to attack them?

Personally, I welcome input from anybody who has an opinion. Even more so if they happen to be one of those vile Chistians who threaten you so much.

;)

Nono, I'm not bitter, that was just an observation of some of the easily offended people why get all emotional and personal here.

It is hard to ignore posts who are directed at me and full of mean accusation and suggested ill intent as mskimis and to an extent Deckas...

Regardless of what my posts may look like, I never get worked up over discussion like this. I do however reply directly from my gut when people throw shit at me in a debate tho. I never lead a discussion down that track myself. But I'm well capable of defending my opinion when it is directly attacked or backstabed by accusations of ill intent.

Regardless? Now you're making stuff up, I have never ever stated that you cannot believe in God and science, on the contrary.

I'm starting to wonder if you actually know what the word "creationism" means...

You asked me if I was lying when I stated that I believe in science...which leads me to believe that you don't think I can believe in God and science.

I know God, so I KNOW what creationism is. It might not be how you define it, but that would stand to reason, too.

Hah, I'm better than anyone.
richer, more beautiful, more talented.

I am the goddess.

Worship Me!!!!!!!

I do have an opinion. A better and more thought out one than yours, the same could be said about any subject. Because guess what, SMW? I'm better than you.

Yeah, right Nap. Like Judge Judy sez... I'm better on my worst day than you'll ever be on your best day.

BTW, how come you have so much time to hang around the boards these days. Lost that big low-voltage electrical job you had? Bet you sure miss that $8 an hour, don't ya hon? Probably don't miss installing those security systems though. All that manual labor must be a real strain on your big ole brain.

Bless your heart.

:cool:

SMW that's no way to talk to your betters.

Nono, I'm not bitter, that was just an observation of some of the easily offended people why get all emotional and personal here.

It is hard to ignore posts who are directed at me and full of mean accusation and suggested ill intent as mskimis and to an extent Deckas...

My post was directed at you because you made an insulting and mean statement about Christians. I wouldn't direct my post at somebody else because of something you said.

:lolhit:


No I'm better then you. No I am. No me!!!!

go play with your toys little one.
Yeah, when's the last time you've been able to hold an intelligent discussion here? Oh that's right, never. Unless that's what you consider SMW speaks.

Until you get a track record here, you're not even going to be afforded the respect Decka gets.

Yeah, right Nap. Like Judge Judy sez... I'm better on my worst day than you'll ever be on your best day.

BTW, how come you have so much time to hang around the boards these days. Lost that big low-voltage electrical job you had? Bet you sure miss that $8 an hour, don't ya hon? Probably don't miss installing those security systems though. All that manual labor must be a real strain on your big ole brain.

Bless your heart.

:cool:
You're gonna find out what's been keeping me here, soon enough. Don't you worry.

I wouldn't be surprised if you actually did watch Judge Judy.

Interesting, Dio. I can truly understand how non-believers would fear living in 1645. But since that's certainly not relevant in today's times... what is it about Christians that makes you fear the consequences of their power over you today?
Not necessarily fear, SMW. It could be as small a thing as inconvenience.

On a cultural scale I feel pretty comfortable living in the city in this country in this day, so I don't complain. But this is not necessarily true for gay couples, for people who want to have abortion, for non-religious people who live in a smaller and religious community.

On more personal levels, you will find that the most common problem is that religious parents often get very angry at their children when the children switch belief or stop believing. This anger can manifest physically, financially, emotionally.

How about in relationships? This is big. My agnostic friends who date religious people usually end up breaking up because their girlfriend/boyfriend get either pissed at them not believing, or they go the route or trying to convert them. I am not saying one side is right another is wrong. I am giving example of how another person's belief can negatively impact you and your life.

Science, surprisingly seems to do just fine, despite all the verbal thrashing that tend to crop up in religious arguments. It makes sense because the mainstream Christian belief actually embraces science. But you bet I will get really angry if some breakthrough research is terminated because of religious opposition.

My post was directed at you because you made an insulting and mean statement about Christians. I wouldn't direct my post at somebody else because of something you said.

Insulting mean statement? I said it was irrational, that is hardly an insult. Faith is not based on rational reasoning, that IS what faith is.

The fact that you took that as an offense is entirely up to you...

Yeah, when's the last time you've been able to hold an intelligent discussion here? Oh that's right, never. Unless that's what you consider SMW speaks.

Until you get a track record here, you're not even going to be afforded the respect Decka gets.


well well well..... seems we got an ol' fashioned barn burner brewin here folks.... i was just wondering after reading the brothel thread if nappy VS the alpha female clique was going to spill onto other threads...

Yeah, when's the last time you've been able to hold an intelligent discussion here? Oh that's right, never. Unless that's what you consider SMW speaks.

Until you get a track record here, you're not even going to be afforded the respect Decka gets.


I dont try to.

I have NEVER seen progress made here in any discussion. So why bother trying.

Now about that $8 hr job you have????

Do tell.

well well well..... seems we got an ol' fashioned barn burner brewin here folks.... i was just wondering after reading the brothel thread if nappy VS the alpha female clique was going to spill onto other threads...


nappy jumps in just to make a smart ass comment here and there so I figured I would just jump in and do it to him.

he should feel flattered he has a woman chasing after him today. Probably the first time it happened

Here's what Angelina really means... she's much more comfortable discussing religion, creationism, evolution and God in general with other atheists. If you're a Christian, she will do her best to run you off this topic.

Here's what Nappy really means...

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t33/texrose752/crybaby.jpg

Science, surprisingly seems to do just fine, despite all the verbal thrashing that tend to crop up in religious arguments. It makes sense because the mainstream Christian belief actually embraces science. But you bet I will get really angry if some breakthrough research is terminated because of religious opposition.

Science is used to be proven wrong and theories changed, that is afterall how science work. Individual scientists will often fight hard for their theories, but facts will always stand.

Religion on the other hand is dogmatic, and very religious people are used to treat disagreements with emotional reaction, resentment and even violence at times. That ugly monster always pops its head out in debates like this.

Here's what Angelina really means... she's much more comfortable discussing religion, creationism, evolution and God in general with other atheists. If you're a Christian, she will do her best to run you off this topic.

Here's what Nappy really means...

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t33/texrose752/crybaby.jpg



Don't be too harsh on him.

maybe he just needs a diaper change?

I dont try to.

I have NEVER seen progress made here in any discussion. So why bother trying.

Now about that $8 hr job you have????

Do tell.

Intellectual discussion is not about progress, but the sharing of thoughts and ideas. A good example is how me and Pre came to a mutual understanding earlier even though we disagree on details. I now understand what he means and he understand what I mean. I benefited from understanding his reasons and I bet he did the same. THAT is what a intelligent debate is all about. Broadening your understanding how other people think.

Intellectual discussion is not about progress, but the sharing of thoughts and ideas. A good example is how me and Pre came to a mutual understanding earlier even though we disagree on details. I now understand what he means and he understand what I mean. I benefited from understanding his reasons and I bet he did the same. THAT is what a intelligent debate is all about. Broadening your understanding how other people think.

Oh I understand how other people think. No need to talk about it. They talk about it for me.

Here's what Angelina really means... she's much more comfortable discussing religion, creationism, evolution and God in general with other atheists. If you're a Christian, she will do her best to run you off this topic.

I have had plenty of discussions with intellectual people with very opposing opinions, it's when people take a disagreement personal it becomes ugly. Unfortunately it is very rare to find a religious person who can lead a menaingful debate on that issue. Now call that insulting (I bet you will) but I have discussed this topic a million times in life and on the internet, and there are very few religious people who handles this well, and there are some that handles it really well.

Here's what Angelina really means... she's much more comfortable discussing religion, creationism, evolution and God in general with other atheists. If you're a Christian, she will do her best to run you off this topic.

I dont know I have went back and read this thread from the beginning as it was starting and progressed much during my time away....

It seems with the question of debating/discussing (is there even a difference on here?) religion,creation ect..... it is not so much as one side running the other off topic. It is both sides are so exactly different and anti the other side there is not even room for a slight compromise. Not even an "I see how you can think that" because to for one second understand where one side is coming from automatically puts your own moral beliefs in question,and will have you taking your own moral inventory

Insulting mean statement? I said it was irrational, that is hardly an insult. Faith is not based on rational reasoning, that IS what faith is.

The fact that you took that as an offense is entirely up to you...

You're conveniently forgetting what else you said in the post.

I KNOW what faith is and it's perfectly rational to me.

Oh I understand how other people think. No need to talk about it. They talk about it for me.

Well, I'm not telepathic...

You're conveniently forgetting what else you said in the post.

I KNOW what faith is and it's perfectly rational to me.

I said not bright or irrational.
Are you putting yourself in the "not bright" category?
If so that is your doing entirely...

I dont know I have went back and read this thread from the beginning as it was starting and progressed much during my time away....

It seems with the question of debating/discussing (is there even a difference on here?) religion,creation ect..... it is not so much as one side running the other off topic. It is both sides are so exactly different and anti the other side there is not even room for a slight compromise. Not even an "I see how you can think that" because to for one second understand where one side is coming from automatically puts your own moral beliefs in question,and will have you taking your own moral inventory

One problem I find is that religious people tend to drag more and more stuff into the discussion, just look at the growth of the thread between me and Decka. I've never understood why it is so hard to stick to one thing at the time. It gets very messy at the end and eventually you can't even remember what you're talking about.

Hah, I'm better than anyone.
richer, more beautiful, more talented.

I am the goddess.

Worship Me!!!!!!!
Oh the most holy goddess. I pray to thee, reveal to me the winning lottery numbers for the next drawing. I will burn ten Mercedes in your glory after I received the winnings.

Then I will come and pray for a massive delusion epidemic that infest the tax men...

I said not bright or irrational.
Are you putting yourself in the "not bright" category?
If so that is your doing entirely...

Real intelligent.:rolleyes:

Keep twisting, girl. You'll fit right in here for a long time.

Real intelligent.:rolleyes:

Keep twisting, girl. You'll fit right in here for a long time.

Ok, can you explain what it is you're on about? I have no idea what the problem is, you're incredibly confusing...
And no need to throw insults at me and the entire community...

Real intelligent.:rolleyes:

Keep twisting, girl. You'll fit right in here for a long time.


Yeah I wanna know how she measures brightness. I mean I was a lil ms 4.0...deans honors...I'll spare you the awards i got. And I'm apparently the dumbest person here because I dont hold "intellegent" conversations with all the "intellegent" people here.
of course it could attribute to the fact that I have a job and I have to post in between work. So I dont have time to open my thesarus and use big words so people think I'm so smart.

Oh the most holy goddess. I pray to thee, reveal to me the winning lottery numbers for the next drawing. I will burn ten Mercedes in your glory after I received the winnings.

Then I will come and pray for a massive delusion epidemic that infest the tax men...

I KNEW you were smart....
Don't burn the MERCEDESES OR A THOUSAND PLAGUES WILL BE VISITED UPON YOU.......Just ship them to this address:

The Goddess
Cell 1345
The Big house
Up the River, Indiana

And kindly send along as well a blank check to cover any other expenses that may accrue.

Bless you, my son.