This is just venting about my feelings... Perhaps someone who has gone through something like this before can give me some input.

Lately more and more of my attention has been on my spiritual beliefs, and now I'm sort of feeling unhappy that I don't have a sense of conclusion about them yet.

I was raised almost entirely secularly. I have gone to churches/meetinghouses/synagogues with various family members, but I was always there as an outsider for a special occasion. I struggle constantly with what my spiritual beliefs actually are... I know I believe in a higher being, and I call him God. (I'm using the word him neutrally here, not saying that god actually has a gender.)

But recently I've felt that something is telling me to push it further, and resume my old quest for a religion. I want the sense of community that being with fellow believers brings.... But I have no fellow believers, because I haven't much of any "beliefs".

And then again I sometimes believe that my depression and numerous other mental issues leads me to religion out of desperation...

You can join a quote-unquote "religion" without having to conform to one belief structure. The Unitarian Universalists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarian_Universalism) are good about that.

You can join a quote-unquote "religion" without having to conform to one belief structure. The Unitarian Universalists are good about that.

That's why Bein a Catholic is so kOOl.
One can drink {git drunk} cuss and even Womanize and then
Danny just go tell the Priest in the confessional,say some
penance { usually 10 Hail Mary's,10 Our Father's } and be
absolved.
Some religions won't let ya drink.
But seriously,why belong to a religion if it doesn't work fer ya.

That's why Bein a Catholic is so kOOl.
One can drink {git drunk} cuss and even Womanize and then
Danny just go tell the Priest in the confessional,say some
penance { usually 10 Hail Mary's,10 Our Father's } and be
absolved.
That part of Catholicism makes absolutely zero sense to me except from a selfish, sociological context. Seems absolutely hypocritical.

It's been my experience that more people find God when they dont expect anything out of him. Generally, people who are confused are looking for something in their life to happen. People search for a result, rather then for God.
If you want to be a Christian, then just ask for forgiveness with no insight as to what God is. Let him introduce himself to you.

Good luck and God bless.

That part of Catholicism makes absolutely zero sense to me except from a selfish, sociological context. Seems absolutely hypocritical.

It's the realist part of life.
Religion doesn't have to be all sufferance.Hell & Brimfire and
stoney eggnog.

This is just venting about my feelings... Perhaps someone who has gone through something like this before can give me some input.

Lately more and more of my attention has been on my spiritual beliefs, and now I'm sort of feeling unhappy that I don't have a sense of conclusion about them yet.

I was raised almost entirely secularly. I have gone to churches/meetinghouses/synagogues with various family members, but I was always there as an outsider for a special occasion. I struggle constantly with what my spiritual beliefs actually are... I know I believe in a higher being, and I call him God. (I'm using the word him neutrally here, not saying that god actually has a gender.)

But recently I've felt that something is telling me to push it further, and resume my old quest for a religion. I want the sense of community that being with fellow believers brings.... But I have no fellow believers, because I haven't much of any "beliefs".

And then again I sometimes believe that my depression and numerous other mental issues leads me to religion out of desperation...

DF, I would highly recommend you check out the Unity Church. A little more mainstream than Unitarians, but I found their teachings to be intellectually stimulating and spritually fulfilling at the same time. And it's not necessary to believe everything they teach to become a member. Stand up during a service, they hand you a flower... and you're a member. Once I found them, I stopped looking for the perfect denomination. I bet you would too.

:)
SMW

http://www.unity.org/index.php?src=gendocs&ref=IdentityStatement&category=About%20Us

Conforming to a religion is a huge struggle for many people, whether you have joined one or grew up with one like me. It is not a good place to be, and can be very draining and depressing.

I assume you are looking for answers to a few fundamental questions, I'd suggest you define your questions and look for the answers you need rather than buying a "plan" or a "package product" if you catch my drift.

I seriously doubt you are able to come up with a question no one has asked before :)

So you should be able to find some info on the internet. in books and by asking friends and people you trust. Whatever you do, be open minded, and when someone claim that they have an exact answer to a philosophical question, you can be fairly sure it is not an open minded answer, and you should not be too quick to adopt it.

It is normal to ask oneself these kinds of questions when you become an adult, and don't expect a quick answer, and do yourself a favour and don't accept a quick fix when provided. These things are supposed to take a lifetime to figure out. It's a part of the beauty of life.

Study and visit. It will evenyually sit itself on you in a way that fits you, not demands that you fit it. Then, after a time, if you're lucky, you'll begin to see the ways a form of "religion" can shape you better, without ever asking you to be a fool or believe the unbelievable.

It is normal to ask oneself these kinds of questions when you become an adult, and don't expect a quick answer, and do yourself a favour and don't accept a quick fix when provided. These things are supposed to take a lifetime to figure out. It's a part of the beauty of life.I'll second that.

Sorry to hear you suffer depression and what not DF. Hope you find a way to manage those issue, be it joining a church community or something else.

If you just need fellowship, maybe you can think about alternatives like joining a hobby-based group instead of belief-based group?

I'll second that.

Sorry to hear you suffer depression and what not DF. Hope you find a way to manage those issue, be it joining a church community or something else.


Yeah, depression sucks. Hope you cheer up soon.

Happy songs for you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YikDJIj9Mo Tis the happy song itself!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tHoK1CpCaI :Disclaimer, this song is good in the beginning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjnvSQuv-H4 Special guest appearance by Robin Williams!

It's the realist part of life.
Religion doesn't have to be all sufferance.Hell & Brimfire and
stoney eggnog.
I'm with Fool here. To me it isn't hypocritical, but a recognition of the idea that God does give people choices, and to exercise those choices makes us human. If we didn't, there would be no free will. Sitting in a confessional and reciting the sins you did that month keeps you connected to God, it isn't just a free pass into heaven. Evil is what will put you into hell. We were born sinners. There's a huge difference between sin and evil. Not everyone is cut out for the good Christian life. It's really nice that those who don't live it can still be Catholics, whereas in many Protestant circles, you'd automatically be condemned to hell.

If you just need fellowship, maybe you can think about alternatives like joining a hobby-based group instead of belief-based group?
It's not just that... Although I sometimes wish I had more friends. I just think my life is lacking in the spiritual dimension.

SMW- Wow! I'd heard of Unitarians of course, but never of the Unity Church. Honestly it sounds great. It really appeals to me... The Christian religion has always been SO interesting to me, but maybe just a little too much, ya know?

The Christian religion has always been SO interesting to me, but maybe just a little too much, ya know?Unfortunately, there is no sigular thing as "Christianity," DF. You'll find many varied and opposed positions that carry the ol' team flag.

Mine is an understanding that sees and experiences God through the traditions of so-called Christian language, counter-culture ideology, open inclusiveness and actively living what you say you value. For many, being "Christian" is exactly the opposite; their's is a religion of belief and exclusion of any who do not believe likewise.

In any event, you will probably find it impossible to fit into a box that asks you to believe first, and only later delivers on some sort of relationship with God after you kick the bucket or while hoping for some spectacular payback.

Any true religion is founded on the simple notion of getting out of yourself and experiencing something new. The name is nothing. Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam and on and on, share this notion and reality. Too bad it all gets bent to shit by cowards and power brokers all the time.

(Interestingly, Christianity is the only religion which has seen its two most influencial founders-Jesus and Paul- executed by the state as subversives. You don't see much of that willingness to challenge conventional/popular wisdom among Christendom today, but it's something to ponder.)

Update: I'm going to church this weekend, with my boyfriend... I'm sure his sister is pleased, she's the most religious of the whole family.

I feel awkward already. :lolhit:

Update: I'm going to church this weekend, with my boyfriend... I'm sure his sister is pleased, she's the most religious of the whole family.

I feel awkward already. :lolhit:

I normally have trouble staying awake for service. This is going to sound completely like stupid advice and given who is giving it, I wouldn't blame you if you didn't take it.
But, my daughter doesn't like to be alone with people she doesn't know to well, so I hang out with her in Sunday school class. I suggest you see if they will let you hang out with the kids. It sounds crazy, but it sure beats listening to the preacher sometimes. Just forget that you're a grown adult and do what the kids do. I actually have fun. And the people running the show think you're cool for helping out.

Well use to, my daughter is a bit older now.

DF, I would highly recommend you check out the Unity Church. A little more mainstream than Unitarians, but I found their teachings to be intellectually stimulating and spritually fulfilling at the same time. And it's not necessary to believe everything they teach to become a member. Stand up during a service, they hand you a flower... and you're a member. Once I found them, I stopped looking for the perfect denomination. I bet you would too.

:)
SMW

http://www.unity.org/index.php?src=gendocs&ref=IdentityStatement&category=About%20Us SMW, I went to Unity for many years and never heard of them handing you a flower and saying you were a member. I don't think that is quite the way you become an actual member of the church. At least it wasn't for me. If you need a hug though that is a good church to go to because you will get a lot of them! :)

I normally have trouble staying awake for service. This is going to sound completely like stupid advice and given who is giving it, I wouldn't blame you if you didn't take it.
But, my daughter doesn't like to be alone with people she doesn't know to well, so I hang out with her in Sunday school class. I suggest you see if they will let you hang out with the kids. It sounds crazy, but it sure beats listening to the preacher sometimes. Just forget that you're a grown adult and do what the kids do. I actually have fun. And the people running the show think you're cool for helping out.

Well use to, my daughter is a bit older now.
Well I've been to church before... Never an Episcopalian one though. Most of my family are Catholics so that's where I've been. I've also been to a Christian Scientist church with my grandmother, but that was always when I was very little, and my mom used to take us to a Quaker meetinghouse for a few years when I was younger. So, point is I kinda know what church is like, and I expect that an Episcopalian service is not that different from a Catholic mass, just with less... fanciness? :p

SMW, I went to Unity for many years and never heard of them handing you a flower and saying you were a member. I don't think that is quite the way you become an actual member of the church. At least it wasn't for me. If you need a hug though that is a good church to go to because you will get a lot of them! :)

Can't speak for ALL Unity churchs, AFT, but that's the way I became a member.

Love their bookstore, don't you?

:)
SMW

Well I've been to church before... Never an Episcopalian one though. Most of my family are Catholics so that's where I've been. I've also been to a Christian Scientist church with my grandmother, but that was always when I was very little, and my mom used to take us to a Quaker meetinghouse for a few years when I was younger. So, point is I kinda know what church is like, and I expect that an Episcopalian service is not that different from a Catholic mass, just with less... fanciness? :p
Hope you have good kneepads. Growing up in an Episcopalian family, I attended service's in that faith for 15 years. You'll be standing/kneeling then back to standing/kneeling quite often.

... and I expect that an Episcopalian service is not that different from a Catholic mass, just with less... fanciness? :pSome call it: Catholic Lite.

Hope you have good kneepads. Growing up in an Episcopalian family, I attended service's in that faith for 15 years. You'll be standing/kneeling then back to standing/kneeling quite often.

Yeah, thats to keep you awake.

Can't speak for ALL Unity churchs, AFT, but that's the way I became a member.

Love their bookstore, don't you?

:)
SMW Yes they have a good bookstore. I use to run one and it was a lot of fun. Met a lot of interesting people. Mine was small compared to some I have been to though. I have also been to Unity Village in Missouri where their school is. I had a couple of friends that went to school there. They have a nice campus.

Mine was small compared to some I have been to though.Well, yeah, you shoulda given out flowers, or something.:banana:

Well, yeah, you shoulda given out flowers, or something.:banana: Well I already had to set up the whole bookstore every sunday so I was not interested in giving out flowers. All the books and stuff were stored in a closet so I would have to go early and set it up and then break it down after service. The building that the Unity church used was rented on sunday for the service. It had other uses so we could not really leave the books out.

Well I already had to set up the whole bookstore every sunday so I was not interested in giving out flowers.Yeah, well you need to get right with God, then. You can bet the Vatican has their books out on shelves, nice shelves, too, not that Ikea stuff we ship our kids off to college with, shelves designed by Italian masters!:cool:

Yeah, well you need to get right with God, then. You can bet the Vatican has their books out on shelves, nice shelves, too, not that Ikea stuff we ship our kids off to college with, shelves designed by Italian masters!:cool:

What College has Italian-designed shelves.?
I wonder if David Horowitz knows.?
I know a few Mom's that wood like to Ship their Kids off.

I'm with Fool here. To me it isn't hypocritical, but a recognition of the idea that God does give people choices, and to exercise those choices makes us human. If we didn't, there would be no free will. Sitting in a confessional and reciting the sins you did that month keeps you connected to God, it isn't just a free pass into heaven. Evil is what will put you into hell. We were born sinners. There's a huge difference between sin and evil. Not everyone is cut out for the good Christian life. It's really nice that those who don't live it can still be Catholics, whereas in many Protestant circles, you'd automatically be condemned to hell.


Personally I think talking to God himself everyday makes you more connected then confessing sins in a booth. I mean God already knows what you've done anyway. Why must you confess it to a priest??? Not saying there is anything wrong with it...before you start throwing punches..just never understood it because I feel we should go straight to the source!

:thumbs:

This is just venting about my feelings... Perhaps someone who has gone through something like this before can give me some input.

Lately more and more of my attention has been on my spiritual beliefs, and now I'm sort of feeling unhappy that I don't have a sense of conclusion about them yet.

I was raised almost entirely secularly. I have gone to churches/meetinghouses/synagogues with various family members, but I was always there as an outsider for a special occasion. I struggle constantly with what my spiritual beliefs actually are... I know I believe in a higher being, and I call him God. (I'm using the word him neutrally here, not saying that god actually has a gender.)

But recently I've felt that something is telling me to push it further, and resume my old quest for a religion. I want the sense of community that being with fellow believers brings.... But I have no fellow believers, because I haven't much of any "beliefs".

And then again I sometimes believe that my depression and numerous other mental issues leads me to religion out of desperation...


I've always been a firm believer in how you live your life and how close you are to God. I really think that's what REALLy matters to me. Of course once you get that close relationship you usually want to have fellowship with others...example being church.

Although it doesn't get you liked around here though so I wouldn't go trying to tell someone how much you love Jesus. They will think you are trying to tell them they are going to hell.

:corn:

I've always been a firm believer in how you live your life and how close you are to God. I really think that's what REALLy matters to me. Of course once you get that close relationship you usually want to have fellowship with others...example being church.Glad and true.

Although it doesn't get you liked around here though so I wouldn't go trying to tell someone how much you love Jesus. They will think you are trying to tell them they are going to hell. Sad and true. (You gotta admit, they've got reason to be wary! Lots of people can't share what they value without somehow telling others that their own values are somehow evil.)

Glad and true.

Sad and true. (You gotta admit, they've got reason to be wary! Lots of people can't share what they value without somehow telling others that their own values are somehow evil.)


But the same can be true for those who don't believe. I mean they can't share their views without telling people how dumb they are for believing.

And even the best of people will get aggrevated and insult when they shouldn't.

But the same can be true for those who don't believe. I mean they can't share their views without telling people how dumb they are for believing.That doesn't make it okay for me (or you?) to be a jackass.

And even the best of people will get aggrevated and insult when they shouldn't.[/QUOTE]True enough, but that doesn't make it okay, huh? And the nonbeliever is not charged to love people; but as Christians, we are.

No it's not ok whether you're charged to love people or not.


I dont think just because you are the one who believes that means you should let someone talk down to you about your beliefs. Opinions are allowed out of Christians. And we were born to sin so might be insulting sometimes too.

It's a good thing God forgives because most people don't.

No it's not ok whether you're charged to love people or not.The point is: we are responsible for ourselves, not for others in this matter.


I dont think just because you are the one who believes that means you should let someone talk down to you about your beliefs.Why not? I don't fret over whether or not someone agrees with me. I know an experiential reality they don't yet. So why stress?
Opinions are allowed out of Christians.Not if those opinion conflict with the prime directives.:cool: And we were born to sin so might be insulting sometimes too.

It's a good thing God forgives because most people don't.I often hear this used as a cop out for being less than we should be.

The point is: we are responsible for ourselves, not for others in this matter.


Why not? I don't fret over whether or not someone agrees with me. I know an experiential reality they don't yet. So why stress?
Not if those opinion conflict with the prime directives.:cool:I often hear this used as a cop out for being less than we should be.


I'm not using it as a cop out. I ask forgivness and strive to do my best everyday. I know when I do wrong. I feel it and feel bad about it. But I will sin. That's a fact.

I'm not using it as a cop out. I ask forgivness and strive to do my best everyday. I know when I do wrong. I feel it and feel bad about it. But I will sin. That's a fact.Sure. Me, too.

(I wasn't meaning to suggest that you were using it that way, by the way. Just that it often is. Paul spoke of this a long time ago: You use grace as a license for...)

But the same can be true for those who don't believe. I mean they can't share their views without telling people how dumb they are for believing.
Ah, generalizations and prejudice. They run rampant against atheists on this board, it seems.

Ah, generalizations and prejudice. They run rampant against atheists on this board, it seems.

Actually, I would say that they tend to run rampant against each side of the belief/non-belief issue.

Actually, I would say that they tend to run rampant against each side of the belief/non-belief issue.True observation. But the atheist are the only ones drinking the blood of pure children in their "I Whoreship Man as God" meetings. I've been there. I've seen it. Ask any atheist here, they'll tell ya.

Actually, I would say that they tend to run rampant against each side of the belief/non-belief issue.
True.

Ah, generalizations and prejudice. They run rampant against atheists on this board, it seems.

Defending an Atheist is like askin baseball to bring back
the spitball.And even name it Hockerball.

Actually, I would say that they tend to run rampant against each side of the belief/non-belief issue.
Perhaps generalizations, but I don't buy the idea that most of the atheists on this board, FT and maybe AFT excluded, prejudge people based on their religious beliefs. Running rampant, they are not. I wouldn't even say prejudice is particularly visible even in the Christian camp either. There are plenty of nice, mellow Christians on the board that don't whine constantly that Christians are being mistreated.

I think it's all in SMW's and FT's heads.

Perhaps generalizations, but I don't buy the idea that most of the atheists on this board, FT and maybe AFT excluded, prejudge people based on their religious beliefs. Running rampant, they are not. I wouldn't even say prejudice is particularly visible even in the Christian camp either. There are plenty of nice, mellow Christians on the board that don't whine constantly that Christians are being mistreated.

I think it's all in SMW's and FT's heads.
True, some are quite "vocal" in their responses to belief/unbelief, many (if not most) are quite civil in the discussions. Blob is particularly good to discuss these issues with w/o the inflamitory remarks.

Not all generalize, but there are some. The ones that do generalize seem a bit more vocal than everyone else at times (squeaky wheel... lol). All in all, most here tolerate the "other side" fairly well, without resorting to attacks.

I can't help getting a bit annoyed when people, with minimal knowledge of the subject, claim science is wrong and it was magic instead. Other than that people may believe whatever they want for all I care.

I do also disagree when superstition is pushed on people in need tho, instead of helping them properly.