Welcome to the Allforums haven for haters. Here's how it came to be.

I started this thread by expressing my belief that atheists spread hate about Christians and that hate could've manifested itself in the young man responsible for this tragic incident. It was later when I heard the only quote attributed to the young killer, "I HATE CHRISTIANS."

My exact words that caused such an uproar were:

Originally Posted by smartmouthwoman
I don't believe they'll have to look far to find out the murders of innocent people were a result of the ever-increasing paranoia among young atheists in this world. Hate breeds hate.

Colorado police look for links in church killings

DENVER (Reuters) - Police in Colorado on Monday were looking into possible links between shootings at a Christian evangelical church and a missionary training center over the weekend that left four victims and a gunman dead.

(more)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071210/us_nm/shooting_colorado_dc_8

(Since the article actually received very little discussion, I've omitted it, but left the link for anyone who's interested.)

What did happen as a result of my comment was over 100 hate-filled posts bashing Christians. Not only Christians... but me, personally. Suddenly I've become the posterchild for arrogant, pushy, ignorant Christians, accused of trying to push my beliefs off on everyone else. It appears the mods believe I deserve everything I get for posting such an 'inflammatory' statement about atheists. I've learned alot about freedom of speech in the religious threads on Allforums. It works much better if you rant about the horrors of God. Do that, and they will scour every response, ensuring that no one steps over that invisible line of posting to insult the originator of the tread, while ignoring the topic. IOW, there is no excuse for Christians to become inflammed over insulting statements, only altheists.

The point of this revision to the first post of this thread is to say, I TOLD YOU SO. Hate breeds hate. At one point, the Christian-bashing here reached such a frenzy, even self-proclaimed, church-going Christians jumped into the fray, adding their own insults toward other Christians, naming names and pointing fingers. Unfortunately, once rolling, hate takes on a life of its own.

I'm sorry if you don't like my opinion. I don't hate atheists. Some of my friends are atheists and I respect their non-belief just as they respect my belief. But on messageboards, there seems to be no place for mutual respect. I just don't understand why online atheists seem so hell-bent (pardon the pun) on insulting Christians. The worst thing I've ever said about atheists is that they spread hate. I believe this thread backs up my accusation.

And still... not ONE post of empathy for the victims of this tragedy. Not even for the young man who shunned his religious upbringing and went on to murder so many innocent people and then lose his own life. And not for his family or the families of those killed who must be in horrific pain. Compassion requires love... and love cannot exist in the hearts of those who hate. Think about it. I know after this experience, I certainly have.

SMW

I don't believe they'll have to look far to find out the murders of innocent people were a result of the ever-increasing paranoia among young atheists in this world. Hate breeds hate.
Wow! You are attributing these killings to a belief system without knowing a thing about the perps! I guess hate does breed hate...and a rush to judgement!

I stated my opinion... please feel free to state yours.Your opinion betrays something a little scary and unobjective, my sweet. Think about it a minute.

So, do you think a religious freak will be found responsible?
I have no idea, but usually (Though not always, of course) crime is keep within a given community/family. So I would think it more likely that there'd be some connection.

Guess we'll just have to wait and see, Shiloh. It's hard to be objective about a mass murder... whether it's at a shopping mall or a house of God. One thing is painfully obvious in both cases... it takes a twisted individual to randomly kill innocent men, women and children.
Absolutely true. It's only your jumping to some hater conclusion that I was asking you to reconsider. It seems beneath you, to me. Maybe it was just a response to how horrible the whole thing is... Peace.:cool:

First Omaha, now Colorado. Some people just don't want to listen to reason anymore.

First Omaha, now Colorado. Some people just don't want to listen to reason anymore.You've got to wonder about the piggy-back or copy-cat thing, don't'cha think?

I stated my opinion... please feel free to state yours.

So, do you think a religious freak will be found responsible?

I actually do not. I think the killer will be shown to be an anti-social loser with a desire for fame and glory, but as for anti-religion...too early to say.
He prob picked the Churches because they are big and contain many potential targets. He could have easily chosen a school ,college campus, shopping mall.....playground...

I will be very surprised to find out he was anti-religious/ anti- Christian. Not saying it's impossible, just unlikely. Could be wrong tho.

I actually do not. I think the killer will be shown to be an anti-social loser with a desire for fame and glory, but as for anti-religion...too early to say.
He prob picked the Churches because they are big and contain many potential targets. He could have easily chosen a school ,college campus, shopping mall.....playground...

I will be very surprised to find out he was anti-religious/ anti- Christian. Not saying it's impossible, just unlikely. Could be wrong tho. Hmm, so you think he just picked this church at random?

Hmm, so you think he just picked this church at random?Violent crime usually stays in the family/community.

Hmm, so you think he just picked this church at random?
Here is a quote from the article.
"In the Arvada shooting, a young man came to the door of the Youth With a Mission dormitory asking for a place to stay, the group said in a statement.

When he was told he could not be accommodated, he opened fire, killing two youth staffers and wounding two who had been cleaning up after a Christmas party."


Churches, especially ones this large, are known to open their doors for a local outreach. It states the young man was looking for a place to stay.

I wonder why the church refused him? Perhaps if they hadn't, he wouldn't have began shooting?
[Purely speculation on my part]

No one denies the violence. It's the assumption that it is caused by atheists that is being challenged.

Hmm, so you think he just picked this church at random?

I just don't know, AFT. Useless to speculate until more info is forthcoming--but that's what mesage boards are for--speculation!

I do wonder why the gunman went to 2 different areas, miles apart.

ooops, my bad. Apparently 2 different gunman.

I do wonder why the gunman went to 2 different areas, miles apart.
You can bet the investigators are looking for linkage.

Yes...most detectives don't believe in coincidence.

Some say Christians are dangerous... and some non-believers take that message to heart. I don't believe they'll have to look far to find out the murders of innocent people were a result of the ever-increasing paranoia among young atheists in this world. Hate breeds hate.

Hmmmm....

Police say gunman had been thrown out of mission school
(http://kjct8.com/Global/story.asp?S=7477751)
Associated Press - December 10, 2007 6:44 PM ET

COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. (AP) - Police say the gunman in two fatal religious shootings had been thrown out of an Arvada missionary training school about three years ago. Police also said today that the gunman also had been sending hate mail to the Arvada program where one shooting occurred.

Police identified the gunman as 24-year-old Matthew Murray who was home-schooled by his family and raised in what a friend said was a deeply religious Christian household.

Murray's father is a neurologist and a leading multiple-sclerosis researcher.

Five people - including Murray - were killed and five others wounded yesterday in the two eruptions of violence 12 hours and 65 miles apart.

The first attack took place at Youth With a Mission training center in Arvada. The other occurred at the New Life Church in Colorado Springs where Murray was killed by a security guard.

Police believe Murray was the gunman in both shootings.

Whoops, there went SMW's bigoted assumption.

Religion creates it's own problems. Nobody's out to get them. It's funny how quickly people will attribute their own problems to other people, yet attribute everybody else's problems only to themselves.

Whoops, there went SMW's bigoted assumption.

Religion creates it's own problems. Nobody's out to get them. It's funny how quickly people will attribute their own problems to other people, yet attribute everybody else's problems only to themselves.
Earlier Monday, a law enforcement official who spoke on condition of anonymity said it appeared Murray "hated Christians." (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071211/ap_on_re_us/church_shootings_84;_ylt=AqrNDzWzIPDisgTR4DYEyCME1 vAI)

she was close enough for just guessing.:@@:

Earlier Monday, a law enforcement official who spoke on condition of anonymity said it appeared Murray "hated Christians." (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071211/ap_on_re_us/church_shootings_84;_ylt=AqrNDzWzIPDisgTR4DYEyCME1 vAI)

she was close enough for just guessing.:@@: If he hated christians then why was he looking for a christian college to attend?

she was close enough for just guessing.:@@:Her guess was that it would be an atheist shooter, not a Christian-hating Christian.

And the likelihood is that SMW never saw the article Mike linked.

well evangelical and freak is almost the same word - just a few extra vowels.

This is very sad, but the reality is that evangelicalism is a magnet for the weak, twisted and emotionally stunted. Now - that may be a good thing & it probably is, afterall it keeps them busy, it introduces some handlers (pastors) into the equation & overall everybody benefits - these people get a mission with a harmless message and other people don't have to experience the fallout. 99 times out of a hundred the outcome is probably positive for everybody all said & done. There's a lot of good intent & good things done in that arena for sure by caring people.

This is not meant to be a knock on the church or a knock on whatever beliefs, it's just a real fact - you set up a place where you say everybody welcome, join our club, we think you are great, we have some structure, instant friends & of course it's going to attract people that yearn for that. Also take into account that these type of persona's find it hard to comprehend anything good about themselves - you throw in some speaking in tongues, and so on...and hey suddenly anything is believable - even that they are worthwhile in their own eyes & the solution is quick- even better. None of that is a bad thing - those people have to start somewhere to find some sense of belief - but now and again some of these people are going to snap & guns are going to become part of it because guns are available.

Of course - not every evangelical fits that mold, probably not even close to the majority - but evangelicalism it is a magnet for dissilusioned self loathing people simply by the nature of what it is. Of course some of that will not have a happy ending - underneath the happy faces they are still dissillusioned self loathing individuals afterall - pretending people like you is not the solution to that.

So overall this doesn't suprise me - you put 100 crazy people in a room with a gun and eventually somebody is gonna get shot. The fact it doesn't happen more often is actually a positive statement about the effectivness of the evangelical church. They clearly provide a wonderful public service for the mentally & emotionallly challenged.

Yes, we're blaming Christians, because they created this fucking problem. We're blaming the people that did it. We're not blaming people that had absolutely dick to do with it, and why? Because we're not insecure jackasses who can't stand to have our religions (or lack thereof) questioned. You are not only a complete fucking jackass idiot for blaming this on atheism, but you're also a total tool for continuing to pin the motivation to shoot up churches on us, even after you've been proven wrong by the facts. You cannot accept the facts, so you rely on bitching like a fourteen year old girl trying to drum up sympathy. I'm glad you're leaving the religious debate, you never brought much to it, other than your whining, and I hope you use this little break to come to the realization that while atheists might say bad stuff about Christians on the Internet, religious people get together in big-ass groups in real life and profess that everybody not agreeing with their ridiculously narrow view of the world is going straight to hell. You people create your own resentment. Only you. The only atheist that's ever shot up a church in this country is the one who just got shut out and shunned by the very church he shot up. The rest of us couldn't give a shit except to learn to live with you people, or staying as far away as possible from religion.

Now take your addled presumptuous bigotry elsewhere.

If he hated christians then why was he looking for a christian college to attend?

The same way Ted Bundy looked for Cheerleader type chickie pooh
that drive VW Bugs.

Blame religion all you want, but as long as people with no tolerance for Christians keep posting hate-filled messages on the internet, twisted people like this young man will have plenty of motivation to kill.To blame this on a person who does not believe in any god is silly. The shooter was Christian, raised by Christians, killed Christians and was himself killed by a Christian. One of the great embarrassments I have to face as a committed (liberal) Christian is the utter inability of some who wear the same label to simply be responsible for the truth of our situation as a community, as loose as that connection may be.

The most extreme example of this may be the attempt to blame this horrible shooting spree on "atheists," but it isn't the only example. The Right branch of the Christian family, and I use the term in its loosest application, constantly confuses its own aganda with that of anyone named Jesus who walked around Galilee a while back talking about shaking off what binds us, social justice, inclusiveness and dying to one's ego-self.

The only hate I see is directed at the atheists/agnostics. Oh, and when they respond out of disgust for the constant abuse they catch for causing all the problems in the world today.

I believe belief is good enough.

[QUOTE=Napsterbater]Yes, we're blaming Christians, because they created this fucking problem. QUOTE]

I'm not blaming Christians in this crime, Nap.
I blame the shooter, the man with the gun who pulled the trigger--whatever his motive may have been, and we may never know for sure.

We can safely say he was a disturbed young man but to blame this crime on religion, or lack therof, his background or education, is wrong.

The same way Ted Bundy looked for Cheerleader type chickie pooh
that drive VW Bugs.

????????????????????:confused:

You can all argue and argue if the killings have anything to do with religion or not but I'm gonna say this:

I'll bet SSRI's were involved, hands down.

I studied those horibble drugs for over a year after my m/c accident and what I learned was frightening.

Some interesting links to browse...

http://www.truebooks.com/prozac.html

(Just a snippet...)

Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, Serzone, Luvox, Celexa, Effexor, Wellbutrin, and even Ritalin (amphetamine for kids) have cropped up at the crime scenes of so many school shootings, suicides, workplace massacres and other callous killings, that NO ONE can deny the truth any longer:

SSRI drugs actually cause people to kill, without feeling remorse, often with a smile, saying: "Sorry, but you deserve it." This horrible truth is HARD to accept, especially for the news media, and the few people who may benefit from them.

With the recent California shootings echoing those earlier horrific massacres at Columbine, Jonesboro and other places, it is now more urgent than ever to get the terrible truth about these drugs out to the public. Everyone needs to know what SSRIs do to normal minds -- children and adults -- how the drugs destroy ethical beliefs and twist moral values, to where many SSRI users convince themselves it is "fun", or "just retribution", to go out and slaughter people.


http://prorev.com/2007/12/mass-killings-and-drug-denial.html

(snippet time...)

While many explanations have been proposed for the epidemic of rampage killings, one that has not been given much attention in the media is the possible involvement of psychotropic medications, particularly selective serotonin-reuptake inhibitors such as fluoxetine (Prozac). Dr. Julian Whitaker, writing in the March 2001 issue of Health and Healing, calls attention to the fact that an uncomfortably large proportion of the people who have gone on shooting sprees were all taking Prozac or related drugs.

A 42-year-old software tester from Massachusetts was, according to Whitaker, taking Prozac when he killed seven of his coworkers. One of the teenage murderers from Columbine High School, and the man who killed seven people at a Kentucky printing plant, were taking Prozac or similar drugs. And Prozac was found in the car of the Atlanta day-trader who murdered his wife and children and then killed or wounded 22 people at two brokerage firms.

http://www.ssristories.com/

(Snip snip)

The increase in online news material and the efficiency of search engines has greatly increased the ability to track stories. Even these 2000+ documented stories only represent the tip of an iceberg since most stories do not make it into the media. There are 34 cases of bizarre behavior, 28 school shootings/incidents, 46 road rage tragedies, 10 air rage incidents, over 500 murders (homicides), over 170 murder-suicides and other acts of violence including workplace violence on this site.

http://www.lawyersandsettlements.com/articles/00091/ssri_nightmare.html

(Snippity snip)

"He had this over-powering urge to shoot something and tried to stop himself but was powerless to do so," he told his parents.

Like so many other people who have committed violent acts while on SSRIs, Zach said, "it was like watching himself in a movie going to get the shotgun."

"we need to pressure the FDA and the drug companies to come clean about the dangers of these drugs and make them responsible for the lives their drugs have destroyed."


AND ON IT GOES.

Earlier Monday, a law enforcement official who spoke on condition of anonymity said it appeared Murray "hated Christians." (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071211/ap_on_re_us/church_shootings_84;_ylt=AqrNDzWzIPDisgTR4DYEyCME1 vAI)

she was close enough for just guessing.:@@:


Yeah and just because he lived in a spiritual home doesn't mean he followed along. And I would say he didn't.

Yeah and just because he lived in a spiritual home doesn't mean he followed along.He trained as a missionary.
And I would say he didn't.Because he turned out to be a murderer?

He trained as a missionary.
Because he turned out to be a murderer?


I trained as a nurse but didn't like it and went into business. Lots of people follow God for years and then take the other way.

It happens.

I trained as a nurse but didn't like it and went into business. Lots of people follow God for years and then take the other way.

It happens.One would like to think that a conversion experience is a little differant than picking a major. But in any event, you are correct. It shows a failing in certain types of "Christianity."

Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, Serzone, Luvox, Celexa, Effexor, Wellbutrin, and even Ritalin (amphetamine for kids) have cropped up at the crime scenes of so many school shootings, suicides, workplace massacres and other callous killings, that NO ONE can deny the truth any longer:
***
Why would anyone want to give their child an expensive pill … with unacceptable side effects,
preferred medical treatment for attention deficit disorder (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,117541,00.html)

Blame religion all you want, but as long as people with no tolerance for Christians keep posting hate-filled messages on the internet, twisted people like this young man will have plenty of motivation to kill.

I'm leaving the religious debates for a while... some of you people make me sick.

SMW

I'm quite disappointed with you. You tried to pinch this one on atheists to strengthen your prejudice, know it backfired and we make you feel sick?

Meh...

***
Why would anyone want to give their child an expensive pill … with unacceptable side effects,
preferred medical treatment for attention deficit disorder (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,117541,00.html)

Good question but the unfortunate answer is - - our FDA insists there are very few side effects, if any, and this miracle drug is safe, effective and not addictive and they convince doctors to prescribe it wholeheartedly. That is a large crock of BULLSHIT and that is why I cannot stand or trust our FuckingDumbAsses.

The link you posted is interesting and I firmly believe that ingesting an unadulterated plant is 100 times safer and more effective than a toxic concoction made in a laboratory that has been proven, in some people, to have unthinkable side effects.

Blame religion all you want, but as long as people with no tolerance for Christians keep posting hate-filled messages on the internet, twisted people like this young man will have plenty of motivation to kill.

I'm leaving the religious debates for a while... some of you people make me sick.

SMW

Kind of like "does not compute" on the old brainwashing eh?

Christianity is not to blame for what that guy did - the guy was mentally disturbed. Christianity (and more specifically the evangelical flavor) simply attracts these unstable types because it's a club where they get instant acceptance & something to believe in. Most of the time the outcome of that is a win for everybody, but of course when you are mentally unstable then it's not hard to look for disillusionment & then try to get even.

I happen to think that evangelicals are nutcases - but mostly harmless nutcases, if you can set aside the mindless following, the beyond reason practices and the incessant judgmentalism - then what's left - a place where mental cases can find a home. If they weren't providing that service it'd be coming out of my tax dollars - so I'm all for it. The fact this guy did what he did doen't mean it's not something with overall value to society.

Evangelicals will stop at nothing until you're on their side. If you fail to conform, you're pretty much among the hated. This guy was a crusader in his own twisted little mind and pretty much hated being turned down. The same thing happened with the killings in Omaha. At some point or another, people feel that their problems go way beyond anybody's advice.

You can all argue and argue if the killings have anything to do with religion or not but I'm gonna say this:

I'll bet SSRI's were involved, hands down.

I studied those horibble drugs for over a year after my m/c accident and what I learned was frightening.

Some interesting links to browse...

http://www.truebooks.com/prozac.html

(Just a snippet...)

Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, Serzone, Luvox, Celexa, Effexor, Wellbutrin, and even Ritalin (amphetamine for kids) have cropped up at the crime scenes of so many school shootings, suicides, workplace massacres and other callous killings, that NO ONE can deny the truth any longer:

SSRI drugs actually cause people to kill, without feeling remorse, often with a smile, saying: "Sorry, but you deserve it." This horrible truth is HARD to accept, especially for the news media, and the few people who may benefit from them.

With the recent California shootings echoing those earlier horrific massacres at Columbine, Jonesboro and other places, it is now more urgent than ever to get the terrible truth about these drugs out to the public. Everyone needs to know what SSRIs do to normal minds -- children and adults -- how the drugs destroy ethical beliefs and twist moral values, to where many SSRI users convince themselves it is "fun", or "just retribution", to go out and slaughter people.


http://prorev.com/2007/12/mass-killings-and-drug-denial.html

(snippet time...)

While many explanations have been proposed for the epidemic of rampage killings, one that has not been given much attention in the media is the possible involvement of psychotropic medications, particularly selective serotonin-reuptake inhibitors such as fluoxetine (Prozac). Dr. Julian Whitaker, writing in the March 2001 issue of Health and Healing, calls attention to the fact that an uncomfortably large proportion of the people who have gone on shooting sprees were all taking Prozac or related drugs.

A 42-year-old software tester from Massachusetts was, according to Whitaker, taking Prozac when he killed seven of his coworkers. One of the teenage murderers from Columbine High School, and the man who killed seven people at a Kentucky printing plant, were taking Prozac or similar drugs. And Prozac was found in the car of the Atlanta day-trader who murdered his wife and children and then killed or wounded 22 people at two brokerage firms.

http://www.ssristories.com/

(Snip snip)

The increase in online news material and the efficiency of search engines has greatly increased the ability to track stories. Even these 2000+ documented stories only represent the tip of an iceberg since most stories do not make it into the media. There are 34 cases of bizarre behavior, 28 school shootings/incidents, 46 road rage tragedies, 10 air rage incidents, over 500 murders (homicides), over 170 murder-suicides and other acts of violence including workplace violence on this site.

http://www.lawyersandsettlements.com/articles/00091/ssri_nightmare.html

(Snippity snip)

"He had this over-powering urge to shoot something and tried to stop himself but was powerless to do so," he told his parents.

Like so many other people who have committed violent acts while on SSRIs, Zach said, "it was like watching himself in a movie going to get the shotgun."

"we need to pressure the FDA and the drug companies to come clean about the dangers of these drugs and make them responsible for the lives their drugs have destroyed."


AND ON IT GOES.
do they screw ppl up or do ppl go back to being nuts when they stop taking them? that's the question. the last person on earth i want to deal with is a mental case off their meds...been there, done that, don't want the shirt.:(

I happen to think that evangelicals are nutcases - but mostly harmless nutcases, if you can set aside the mindless following, the beyond reason practices and the incessant judgmentalism - then what's left - a place where mental cases can find a home. If they weren't providing that service it'd be coming out of my tax dollars - so I'm all for it. The fact this guy did what he did doen't mean it's not something with overall value to society.


Drew, You make it sound as if you think what this man did was a good thing? Do you really believe that?

I have been involved with the "christian circle" years ago, and even though I have my problems with them, I would never agree it was a good thing they be gunned down, or look at it as a value to society.

They are, after all the labels removed, human, and don't deserve to die because of another persons anger or hatred no matter what their religious background may be.

Kind of like "does not compute" on the old brainwashing eh?

Christianity is not to blame for what that guy did - the guy was mentally disturbed. Christianity (and more specifically the evangelical flavor) simply attracts these unstable types because it's a club where they get instant acceptance & something to believe in. Most of the time the outcome of that is a win for everybody, but of course when you are mentally unstable then it's not hard to look for disillusionment & then try to get even.

I happen to think that evangelicals are nutcases - but mostly harmless nutcases, if you can set aside the mindless following, the beyond reason practices and the incessant judgmentalism - then what's left - a place where mental cases can find a home. If they weren't providing that service it'd be coming out of my tax dollars - so I'm all for it. The fact this guy did what he did doen't mean it's not something with overall value to society. Mostly harmless??? You should really check out this website and see how harmless they are..... www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org (http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org)

Drew, You make it sound as if you think what this man did was a good thing? Do you really believe that?

I have been involved with the "christian circle" years ago, and even though I have my problems with them, I would never agree it was a good thing they be gunned down, or look at it as a value to society.

They are, after all the labels removed, human, and don't deserve to die because of another persons anger or hatred no matter what their religious background may be.

No not at all - I can see how my wording in the last sentance could lead to that conclusion, my bad for not writing better - I was talking about the evangelicals being of value - not his acts. The crime was terrible.

I was saying that evangelicals can't be blamed for this, that overall - even though evangelical christianity is largely a club for the weak of mind - that evangelicals provide a beneficial service to society (ie they attract nutcases like moths to a flame and for the most part keep these kind of of nutcases in check). I bet they have prevented more of these type of things than otherwise. Don't blame the evangelicals - blame the parents if anything or more to the point - just blame him - he did it.

Mostly harmless??? You should really check out this website and see how harmless they are..... www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org (http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org)

Yes - I agree, there certainly is a segment of christians that are so totally blind to good judgement that it is beyond scary, but I think for the most part - even the hardcore christians are mostly restricted to whacked insane petty beliefs - there's always a hardcore scary element in everything but they are always the minority.

Live & let live is what I say - yes, all religions have their mindless whack jobs - but thats just part of life. People believe in all kinds of crap - ghosts, fairy's at the bottom of the garden, the rapture, speaking in tongues - the list is endless.

I pray you'll get over your disappointment, Ang. Especially since I STILL think atheists are partially to blame for this tragic event. I never said, nor did I ever believe, the KILLER was an athieist. However, any group who goes around spreading HATE takes some responsibility when someone twists off and starts KILLING the targets of that hate. It'd be no different if the killer was targeting black people and was an ardent student of the teachings of the KKK. The KKK would be far from blameless for spreading that hatred in the first place.

And since you included the word 'we' in your post, I guess that means you identify yourself with atheists... often messengers of hate directed toward innocent Christians who's only 'crime' is believing in God. It's not enough to simply declare their disbelief, for some reason, they feel it's their 'duty' to bash believers. You're as guilty of that as anyone I've ever met.

Congrats on finding a place you feel you belong. One can only hope you and others who seem to HATE a group of people who would do you no harm will stop and think about what you're doing before you continue to spout off hate messages on the internet.

You and your merry band of atheists are guilty of spreading evil thoughts to people who may be too sick to realize you're simply expressing your own frustration at being unable to know God.

Like I said before, shame on you all... you make me sick.

SMW Well that church certainly spread a lot of hate and by the hypocrite Ted Haggard who made weekly calls to George W. Some spiritual advisor he turned out to be! At least they got rid of him. Well they had to of course. I guess it is ok to spread hate if it is in the name of God, right?

Congrats on finding a place you feel you belong. One can only hope you and others who seem to HATE a group of people who would do you no harm will stop and think about what you're doing before you continue to spout off hate messages on the internet.

But....? Isn't this a hate message on the internet?

I don't believe they'll have to look far to find out the murders of innocent people were a result of the ever-increasing paranoia among young atheists in this world. Hate breeds hate.

And you're another one, AFT. You just love to pull those obscure, lunatic fringe stories out of your hat in an effort to insinuate ALL Christians are evil. Condemning the entire congregation of the church for the actions of one twisted leader is not only unfair, it's a slap in the face to the THOUSANDS of good people who were also let down by Ted Haggard's actions.

You, too should be ashamed... but I doubt you are.

:slap:
SMW Are you trying to be an Ann Coulter or something? Give up your not that smart. I have never ever said or insinuated that all christians are evil. That is ridiculous beyond belief. My mother is a christian and so is my girlfriend. Neither one of them is evil. I'm pretty sure that more of my friends are christian then atheist or agnostic. And what obscure,lunatic story of mine are you talking about? I would like to know.

You don't ever seem to get tired of your persecution complex, do you SMW?

Sorry if I misread your motives in posting that, but it sure sounds as if you were reaching for a reason to justify the killings

Kinda like you did in your initial post?




Enh... maybe I just misread your motives. ;)

\
How 'bout this obscure, lunatic story?



Sorry if I misread your motives in posting that, but it sure sounds as if you were reaching for a reason to justify the killings since they happened in a 'hate-filled' church?

SMW

P.S. No, I'm much prettier than Ann Coulter. ;) Well I was just saying the church has certainly spread and preaced a lot of hate. Have you ever seen the documentary,Jesus Camp? I think you would have a different opinion of evangelicals. I am in no way saying that all evangelicals are filled with hate but they surely try to convert people to their way of thinking. That is what a evangelical does! They try to convert and spread their message. And if you don't like it your going to hell. And I'm glad you are much prettier than Ann Coulter. I just hope you don't have a big adams apple!:D

\


P.S. No, I'm much prettier than Ann Coulter. ;)

Do you have a pic in a nazi outfit to compare you with Anne

Well I was just saying the church has certainly spread and preaced a lot of hate. Have you ever seen the documentary,Jesus Camp? I think you would have a different opinion of evangelicals. I am in no way saying that all evangelicals are filled with hate but they surely try to convert people to their way of thinking. That is what a evangelical does! They try to convert and spread their message. And if you don't like it your going to hell. And I'm glad you are much prettier than Ann Coulter. I just hope you don't have a big adams apple!:D

AFT, just as I don't waste my time studying atheist publications, neither do I ever seek out evangelical materials. So, no, I haven't seen the documentary you mentioned. I agree some fundamental religions are filled with hate for those who don't believe what they preach. But I really don't see how that fact hurts anyone except their own credibility.

My mom dragged me to a couple of traveling tent revivals when I was a kid. (Must've been a slow entertainment day in Big D since she really wasn't into that stuff either.) Anyway, I remember people speaking in tongues... and one guy who ran down the aisle on his all fours... barking like a dog. Yeah, I thought they were nuts... but I didn't want to kill them.

;)
SMW

Do you have a pic in a nazi outfit to compare you with Anne

Darn! I don't have a nazi outfit. But bet I could borrow one from FT! Can I get back to ya on that request?

:D
SMW

It's most certainly not other denominations of Christians who spread hate against other believers. Would you agree to that statement??Suprisingly, anyone familiar with the more conservative/fundimental denominations in this country would know that they regularly "spread hate" about their more liberal/progressive brethren.

Anyone who uses a NRSV translation is apt to be called devil spawn, or some such, by the KJV-Only crowd. Fundies regularly spout off at the Roman Catholic Church: "Idolators, worshipping Mary and following a man (The Pope) like he was God." Joel Osteen is constantly catching hell for his message of "victorious living," (It seems he doesn't talk enough about how God is supposed to torture anyone who can't believe in a talking donkey, and that is justice.) and on and on...

do they screw ppl up or do ppl go back to being nuts when they stop taking them? that's the question. the last person on earth i want to deal with is a mental case off their meds...been there, done that, don't want the shirt.:(

Mikey, in one case, it took only 4 days for a man to kill his family then kill himself after taking Paxil. He was not a mean person or even a depressed person but his doctor insisted on prescribing Paxil (the KingPin of SSRI's).

On the fourth day of taking this 'wonder drug', he gunned his wife and children down them shot himself to death. Gee, do you think Paxil had anything to do with it? Yer darn tootin it did.

Anyway, those drugs screw some people up but BIG TIME but other people swear by them and wouldn't be without them.

Another nightmare about SSRI's for many people is, they are extremely hard to get off of because they are highly addictive. If you miss one day, the side effects, including 'brain zaps' can be unbearable.

I did lots of reading about that stuff several years ago and I'm so glad I said NO to taking SSRI's but I did take Paxil for 2 days I got from a friend, and that was quite enuff for me. It made things much worse than what I was going thru at that awful time in my life.

JUST SAY NO TO SSRI's!!!!

Well, I better stop now and let the RELIGIOUS BITCH-FEST continue. Sometimes, I cannot believe what some people put so much time and energy into.

Go figure.

Wait a second. Is this board in the Religious section, by any chance???

Ok then, my bad.... boo fukkin hoo....

:cool:

Suprisingly, anyone familiar with the more conservative/fundimental denominations in this country would know that they regularly "spread hate" about their more liberal/progressive brethren.

Anyone who uses a NRSV translation is apt to be called devil spawn, or some such, by the KJV-Only crowd. Fundies regularly spout off at the Roman Catholic Church: "Idolators, worshipping Mary and following a man (The Pope) like he was God." Joel Osteen is constantly catching hell for his message of "victorious living," (It seems he doesn't talk enough about how God is supposed to torture anyone who can't believe in a talking donkey, and that is justice.) and on and on...

Again, sweetie... you're talking about a lunatic fringe. You can find them in every camp. IN GENERAL, Christians do not spread hate.

Period.

Again, sweetie... you're talking about a lunatic fringe. You can find them in every camp. IN GENERAL, Christians do not spread hate.

Period.

P E R I O D

Again, sweetie... you're talking about a lunatic fringe.Jerry Fallwell, Pat Robertson, The Moral Majority, Cornerstone Church in San Antonio, the Church in CO that got shot up, most Baptist churches, Campus Crusade for Christ, and on and on.

I appreciate your wllingness to see the good, but to deny the bad is to miss a big part of the reality. It is exactly that reality that turns people off to the potentials of Christianity. Anyone who cares for their neighbor should never make the mistake of assuming that it is only a fringe few under the banner of "Christian" that present themselves so offensively.

Jerry Fallwell, Pat Robertson, The Moral Majority, Cornerstone Church in San Antonio, the Church in CO that got shot up, most Baptist churches, Campus Crusade for Christ, and on and on.

I appreciate your wllingness to see the good, but to deny the bad is to miss a big part of the reality. It is exactly that reality that turns people off to the potentials of Christianity. Anyone who cares for their neighbor should never make the mistake of assuming that it is only a fringe few under the banner of "Christian" that present themselves so offensively.

You lost the opportunity for me to even consider your message when you decided to make a list and included most Baptist churches. I happen to have been raised in Southern Baptist churches and the only entity I ever heard them express hatred for was the devil. You are obviously looking for hate where none exists.

Are some evangelical groups dangerous to society? I don't think so. You may not like any of those groups you listed, but to paint them all with a wide brush of being 'bad' is really beneath your intelligence, Shiloh. Generalizing is usually a pasttime of the ignorant. I'm surprised to see you initiate it.

I attended a Southern Baptist church on a fairly regular basis when I was 15 or so. My best friend of the time was a regular attendee and encouraged me to go.

At this church, the pastor, when he wasn't ridiculing the Catholics, was making fun of the Episcopals. Or the Methodists, Seventh-Day Adventists, Lutherans..... He belittled Elizabeth Taylor, rock and roll, girls wearing makeup...(my dad, who never attended church, made the comment that the preacher man could never GET a woman like Liz Taylor, lol)..... the pastor made rude comments about EVERY Christian demonination except his own ,I'm sorry to say.

IOW, in my mind, he was as far removed from a true Christian man as it's possible to be in this day and age.

It would have been funny if it weren't so sad. The remarks and insults finally made me stop going. After many many years, I returned to the church I was raised in--Presbyterian. Haven't heard a rude comment directed towards others yet.

You lost the opportunity for me to even consider your message when you decided to make a list and included most Baptist churches.When the student is ready the teacher will appear.I happen to have been raised in Southern Baptist churches and the only entity I ever heard them express hatred for was the devil.Me, too. I am speaking from personal observation in most of these examples. By the way, member congragations of the Southern Baptist Convention have come unde fire by independent Baptists.
You are obviously looking for hate where none exists.I'm not looking for it at all. Are some evangelical groups dangerous to society? I don't think so.I never said I thought they were dangerous to society, rather that they pitch hate out there. And did you mean to say, "I don't think so?"
You may not like any of those groups you listed, but to paint them all with a wide brush of being 'bad' is really beneath your intelligence, Shiloh. Generalizing is usually a pasttime of the ignorant. I'm surprised to see you initiate it.Just for the record, I am describing a reality not an opinion. Frankly, it is a matter of doctrine in these more exclusive limbs of Christianity that you either agree with them, or they consign you to the fires of hell. Pretty hateful.

After many many years, I returned to the church I was raised in--Presbyterian. Haven't heard a rude comment directed towards others yet.
I attend a United Methodist Church and am very involved. Presbyterian method and doctine are very similar, except for how you disagree with us on the Calvinism v. Armenianism thing. You should all burn in hell forever!:banana:

No not at all - I can see how my wording in the last sentance could lead to that conclusion, my bad for not writing better - I was talking about the evangelicals being of value - not his acts. The crime was terrible.

I was saying that evangelicals can't be blamed for this, that overall - even though evangelical christianity is largely a club for the weak of mind - that evangelicals provide a beneficial service to society (ie they attract nutcases like moths to a flame and for the most part keep these kind of of nutcases in check). I bet they have prevented more of these type of things than otherwise. Don't blame the evangelicals - blame the parents if anything or more to the point - just blame him - he did it.

I had a feeling you were talking about the evangelicals being of value, and not his act. I wanted to clear up any misunderstanding on my part. I agree with the rest of your statement.

Intolerance, maybe. But not HATE.
Mighty fine line you're walkin' there, Little Missy!

When the student is ready the teacher will appear.Me, too. I am speaking from personal observation in most of these examples. By the way, member congragations of the Southern Baptist Convention have come unde fire by independent Baptists.
I'm not looking for it at all. I never said I thought they were dangerous to society, rather that they pitch hate out there. And did you mean to say, "I don't think so?"
Just for the record, I am describing a reality not an opinion. Frankly, it is a matter of doctrine in these more exclusive limbs of Christianity that you either agree with them, or they consign you to the fires of hell. Pretty hateful.


I dont think it's hateful to tell someone that if they don't accept Jesus that they will go to Hell.

Now if I held a gun to your head and said believe or I'll kill you. Then I think that might be a little mean.

And I thought if you didn't believe in God you wouldn't believe in Hell so it wouldn't matter to you anyway. I mean as a Christian I know I DON'T want to go to Hell. So if someone told me I was then it would upset me. Eternity is a long time and I plan on spending it in Heaven not Hell.

*shrugs shoulders*

When the student is ready the teacher will appear.Me, too. I am speaking from personal observation in most of these examples. By the way, member congragations of the Southern Baptist Convention have come unde fire by independent Baptists.
I'm not looking for it at all. I never said I thought they were dangerous to society, rather that they pitch hate out there. And did you mean to say, "I don't think so?"
Just for the record, I am describing a reality not an opinion. Frankly, it is a matter of doctrine in these more exclusive limbs of Christianity that you either agree with them, or they consign you to the fires of hell. Pretty hateful.

Yes, I meant to say I DON'T think a church is a danger to society just because it's considered evangelical... or has little tolerance for other religions. I've yet to hear on the news about a preacher going crazy and walking into the services of a 'competing' congregation with an AK47. (However if such an event has taken place, I'm pretty sure the lunatic fringe patrol here will go out there and find it for me.)

And the only way you could possibly be speaking of REALITY as opposed to your opinion is if you've attended all those churches you mentioned and studied their doctrines long enough to know firsthand what they 'preach.'

I'm glad you found the United Methodist Church. I have a co-worker who's involved in their singles group. Sounds like a great place to worship.

Eternity is a long time and I plan on spending it in Heaven not Hell.
Yes, I'm sure. Unfortunately this sort of "what's in it for me?" approach to Christianity has made the faith irrelevant to much of society. Too bad. Jesus talked about sharing the good news, not turning people off by our self-interest.

Yes, I'm sure. Unfortunately this sort of "what's in it for me?" approach to Christianity has made the faith irrelevant to much of society. Too bad. Jesus talked about sharing the good news, not turning people off by our self-interest.


Maybe but I'm pretty sure a lot of those who oppose it probably know very little about it anyway. You know maybe they just look at the bad and forget the good. As you pointed out we have to look at both to know reality.

And the only way you could possibly be speaking of REALITY as opposed to your opinion is if you've attended all those churches you mentioned and studied their doctrines long enough to know firsthand what they 'preach.'

I have spent a great deal of time doing just that. Although I haven't attended the one in CO, it's reputation can be confirmed/denied/questioned with a little research.

Here's a little quote by Pat Robertson. Remember the issue is Christians hating on Christians:

He said: ‘You’re supposed to be nice to Episcopalians, Presbyterians and Methodists … Nonsense. I don’t have to be nice to the spirit of the Antichrist.’

Mighty fine line you're walkin' there, Little Missy!

It IS a fine line, Shiloh. But once you pull a gun and shoot somebody, you've definitely crossed it.

;)

It IS a fine line, Shiloh. But once you pull a gun and shoot somebody, you've definitely crossed it.

;)I agree. Remember , Love, most crime stays in the family/community. In this case it sure as hell...oops, it sure as dangdabit did!

You know maybe they just look at the bad and forget the good.I'm certain this is true. That is why we must each be responsible for how we as a larger Church community present ourselves, because people are watching. And it really matters.

I have spent a great deal of time doing just that. Although I haven't attended the one in CO, it's reputation can be confirmed/denied/questioned with a little research.

Here's a little quote by Pat Robertson. Remember the issue is Christians hating on Christians:

He said: ‘You’re supposed to be nice to Episcopalians, Presbyterians and Methodists … Nonsense. I don’t have to be nice to the spirit of the Antichrist.’

You're grasping at straws, Shiloh. The issue is actually whether Christians are responsible for spreading as much hate as atheists. And it's still MHO that Christians can't hold a candle to the amount of hate spread by atheists.

As I explained earlier... it's primarily atheists who spread hate against Christians. It's most certainly not other denominations of Christians who spread hate against other believers. Would you agree to that statement??This is what I was speaking to.

And it's still MHO that Christians can't hold a candle to the amount of hate spread by atheists.My experience is that most atheists couldn't care less about Christianity or Christians so long as the Christian isn't trying to interject their religion onto the atheist. I can't think of any atheists attacking churches, can you?

I dont think it's hateful to tell someone that if they don't accept Jesus that they will go to Hell.

*

I don't consider it hateful, but it IS rude, IMO.
Most of the congregants at my church don't even BELIEVE in hell, nor does our pastor, who's a woman.

BURN HER!!!!!
Yep, we're a liberal bunch.


PS. I'm far from a biblical scholar and will confess that I go for the singing and fellowship and camaraderie. ...where does it precisely say in the Bible (New Testament) that if you do not accept Jesus, you will be damned to eternal hellfire?
did Jesus Christ ever say such a thing?

You may not like any of those groups you listed, but to paint them all with a wide brush of being 'bad' is really beneath your intelligence, Shiloh. Generalizing is usually a pasttime of the ignorant. I'm surprised to see you initiate it.

And you may not like atheists, but to paint them all with a wide brush of being 'hateful' is really beneath your intelligence, SMW. Generalizing is usually a pasttime of the ignorant. I'm surprised to see you initiate it.

And it's still MHO that Christians can't hold a candle to the amount of hate spread by atheists.

And there she goes again... :rolleyes:

It's amazing how incredibly judgmental and sanctimonious you are with all your "Christian love," yet all you've done here is spew hate and ugly insinuations. It's this kind of righteous religious shit that causes thinking people to shun organized religion and those who sing its praises from the rooftops (while spitting on the non-believers, below).

* shakes head *

Thank [insert deity of choice here] I'm not religious.

And you may not like atheists, but to paint them all with a wide brush of being 'hateful' is really beneath your intelligence, SMW. Generalizing is usually a pasttime of the ignorant. I'm surprised to see you initiate it.



And there she goes again... :rolleyes:

It's amazing how incredibly judgmental and sanctimonious you are with all your "Christian love," yet all you've done here is spew hate and ugly insinuations. It's this kind of righteous religious shit that causes thinking people to shun organized religion and those who sing its praises from the rooftops (while spitting on the non-believers, below).

* shakes head *

Thank [insert deity of choice here] I'm not religious.

What a shocker, Frannie. Since you seem to have a negative attitude about EVERY subject, I'd never have guessed you're an atheist. :rolleyes:

If you consider my defending Christians to be an act of hate and ugly insinuations, then that's your problem, dear... not mine. I suppose you believe the Christian thing to do is just ignore people who bash those who believe in God. Come to think of it, of course you do. I'd expect nothing less from an atheist.

SMW

I don't consider it hateful, but it IS rude, IMO.
Most of the congregants at my church don't even BELIEVE in hell, nor does our pastor, who's a woman.

BURN HER!!!!!
Yep, we're a liberal bunch.


PS. I'm far from a biblical scholar and will confess that I go for the singing and fellowship and camaraderie. ...where does it precisely say in the Bible (New Testament) that if you do not accept Jesus, you will be damned to eternal hellfire?
did Jesus Christ ever say such a thing?


If you dont' believe in Hell then what do you believe.

Just curious. I won't insult your beliefs at all.

If you dont' believe in Hell then what do you believe.

Just curious. I won't insult your beliefs at all.

I think it's just an absence from the Father. You will never know the Father.

I don't consider it a place of punishment--like a lake of fire, demons with pitchforks, and all that. It's just---nothing.

I think it's just an absence from the Father. You will never know the Father.

I don't consider it a place of punishment--like a lake of fire, demons with pitchforks, and all that. It's just---nothing.


What happens to those who will never know the Father?

Again I'm not trying to be insulting just very curious.

Originally Posted by smartmouthwoman
As I explained earlier... it's primarily atheists who spread hate against Christians. It's most certainly not other denominations of Christians who spread hate against other believers. Would you agree to that statement??

This is what I was speaking to.

Again, intolerance is a far cry from HATE. Christian denominations may be intolerant of other churches and go so far as to say, "They'll burn in hell!" Maybe instead of looking at it as hate, one could say they're simply concerned for the eternal salvation of those who believe differently. Far cry from hate.

And no, not ALL atheists are filled with hate... only those I've met online. Atheists I know in real life never even discuss their (dis)beliefs, nor would I ever discuss my beliefs with them. Seems hiding behind a internet identity gives some people courage they wouldn't ordinarily possess... which creates an atmosphere where mutual respect goes out the window.

And when it comes down to it, that's my whole point.

Atheists who try to spread the word ON THE INTERNET that Christians are evil, ignorant and somehow FORCE their religion on the poor unassuming disbelievers of the world. Look how long we discussed that evil practice some Christians have of knocking on people's doors trying to spread their 'good news!' Geesh, you would think they were armed and dangerous.

My friend who's a member of the United Methodist Church told me that she would never participate in a discussion with an atheist. Obviously, your church does not lead you in that spiritual direction, huh?

I believe they truly die.

They are just----dead.
Forever.
They will never know immortality.

I realize this is a very liberal viewpoint and not everyone's view. I could very well be wrong.

Will find out for sure one day--like all of us.:)

I believe they truly die.

They are just----dead.
Forever.
They will never know immortality.

I realize this is a very liberal viewpoint and not everyone's view. I could very well be wrong.

Will find out for sure one day--like all of us.:)


Thanks for explaining. I'm often curious about other people's beliefs. And I've met a few people who feel the same way you do.

Again, intolerance is a far cry from HATE. Christian denominations may be intolerant of other churches and go so far as to say, "They'll burn in hell!" Maybe instead of looking at it as hate, one could say they're simply concerned for the eternal salvation of those who believe differently. Far cry from hate.

?

But yet, SMW, some see this as a threat. IOW, if you do not believe, you will not have eternal salvation, instead, you will be punished.

You can see how this kind of indirect threat has turned many away.

Thanks for explaining. I'm often curious about other people's beliefs. And I've met a few people who feel the same way you do.

I probably wasn't very clear. And to some, the absense from the Father IS punishment--or it would be to me.:)

Again, intolerance is a far cry from HATE. Christian denominations may be intolerant of other churches and go so far as to say, "They'll burn in hell!"Do you not think to refer to entire Christian denominations "the spirit of Antichrist," as Robertson did, is hateful?
My friend who's a member of the United Methodist Church told me that she would never participate in a discussion with an atheist.One of the primary tenets of the UMC is inclusiveness, modelled on the open table of Jesus' ministry. It is not meant to produce cookie cut-out "Christians," so you will find a broad range of attitudes, commitment levels and approaches (and sexualities- gasp!)This flexibility is part of what distinguishes more liberal churches from more conservative ones.
Obviously, your church does not lead you in that spiritual direction, huh?My relationship with God does not lead me to that place, Sugar. I am no better than an atheist, a Muslim, a Hindu, a Jesuit or Pat Robertson. Do you find in scripture any occurance of Jesus refusing to discuss things with people who disagreed with his position or were seen as socially marginalized? Quite the opposite is the way I've read the book.:cool:

You can see how this kind of indirect threat has turned many away.
It paints a picture of a vindictive and petty god, for many people.

It paints a picture of a vindictive and petty god, for many people.


It's just funny to me how some people are all about the law because hey you'll be punished if you do that. But people will deny God because He will punish you.

Maybe law enforcement and the judical system are just that scary huh???

:p

It's just funny to me how some people are all about the law because hey you'll be punished if you do that. But people will deny God because He will punish you.

Maybe law enforcement and the judical system are just that scary huh???

:pYeah. Or maybe we have just bent the word justice around so that its meaning has been lost.

People all the time say, "Hey, it's okay for me to speed if I'm willing to pay the ticket." They call that justice, but don't blink an eye at the injustices around us all the time!

I totally agree with your premise, Shiloh. Religious convictions are a very personal thing. The problem is... you can't discuss atheism without also discussing religious convictions. At least atheists can't. In a perfect world, atheists would be able to say... I don't believe in God and the discussion would move on to another topic... like it does in real life. But on the 'net, atheists aren't content with simply stating their views and dropping it. They seem to want to PROVE there is no God by posting links to atheist sites and calling Christians names like idiots and 'people who believe in the magic man in the sky' etc.

Christians may debate differing views on God... but they don't normally participate in debates about whether or not He exists. Around here, 'we' either have to sit back and take the bashing, or speak up for ourselves. I'm more than a little surprised you seem to prefer to play the devil's advocate on this topic... seeing as how you're a good Methodist boy and all.

;)
SMW

I'm more than a little surprised you seem to prefer to play the devil's advocate on this topic... seeing as how you're a good Methodist boy and all.

;)
SMWI prefer to think of it as God's Advocate!

I'm here to comfort the disturbed and disturb the comfortable! You know, just like the OT prophets and the Big JC himself. They all taught a social gospel committed to rattling the existing abusive power structure, delivering people from the garbage that held them under its thumb, and encouraging an experience outside of our petty little selves. Oh, and pissing in the Cheerios of the current conservative religionists!

Hell, I know some atheists who are very close, relationally, to God. It doesn't matter if they believe that or not. Our belief matters very little, IMHO; its all about what we experience.

If you consider my defending Christians to be an act of hate and ugly insinuations,

Defending Christians is a far cry from what you've done in this thread, my dear. You started out with a hate-on for people who don't believe in your version of religion, and nothing's changed from post #1. You attack, insult, demean, and decry everything that doesn't conform to your rigid view of what "good people" are/do/think/say.

I suppose you believe the Christian thing to do is just ignore people ...

Isn't turning the other cheek a directive from your god?

...who bash those who believe in God.

Let's see... which athiests here jumped up and shouted "I so freaking HAPPY that those stupid bible thumpers in Colorado got shot dead!"?

None.

Which "believers" here jumped up and shouted "Athiests are HATERS!!"

That would be you.

Come to think of it, of course you do. I'd expect nothing less from an atheist.

You're so blind to your extreme hatred and bigotry, you can't even think straight. You've contradicted yourself at every turn. You argue that Christians are good, kind, loving people, and that atheists are all hateful, ugly, aggressive, and (potentially? probably? usually?) violent toward "believers," yet in nearly the same breath you spew your own special brand of ugliness, hatred, and bile toward athiests in an unending flood.

Maybe you should speak to Jesus or your pastor about your wildly irrational anger and hatred toward those who don't participate in organized religion. I can't imagine that any god would want his subjects to be so wound up and overwrought.

Defending Christians is a far cry from what you've done in this thread, my dear. You started out with a hate-on for people who don't believe in your version of religion, and nothing's changed from post #1. You attack, insult, demean, and decry everything that doesn't conform to your rigid view of what "good people" are/do/think/say.


Isn't turning the other cheek a directive from your god?


Let's see... which athiests here jumped up and shouted "I so freaking HAPPY that those stupid bible thumpers in Colorado got shot dead!"?

None.

Which "believers" here jumped up and shouted "Athiests are HATERS!!"

That would be you.

You're so blind to your extreme hatred and bigotry, you can't even think straight. You've contradicted yourself at every turn. You argue that Christians are good, kind, loving people, and that atheists are all hateful, ugly, aggressive, and (potentially? probably? usually?) violent toward "believers," yet in nearly the same breath you spew your own special brand of ugliness, hatred, and bile toward athiests in an unending flood.

Maybe you should speak to Jesus or your pastor about your wildly irrational anger and hatred toward those who don't participate in organized religion. I can't imagine that any god would want his subjects to be so wound up and overwrought.Man, this post is an All-Star of subtle language, in spite of its fire. Some of my favorites: "hate-on;" the turning the other cheek line capped with "a directive from your god;" the phrase "own special brand of ugliness, hatred and bile;" and the use of the word "subject" in the last sentence.

This is a fine peice of work. You gotta give credit where credit is due. Shalom.:cool:

Man, this post is an All-Star of subtle language, in spite of its fire. Some of my favorites: "hate-on;"

Didn't you say this, on the first page of this thread:

It's only your jumping to some hater conclusion that I was asking you to reconsider.

I simply agree with you. :)

the turning the other cheek line capped with "a directive from your god;"

Is it not a directive from god/jesus to his/their followers?

the phrase "own special brand of ugliness, hatred and bile;"

SMW has shared her own special brand of ugliness, hatred and bile with us for some time, now. Maybe you just haven't been around long enough?

and the use of the word "subject" in the last sentence.

Does "follower" work better for you?

This is a fine peice of work. You gotta give credit where credit is due. Shalom.:cool:

I'll take that as a compliment, Shiloh. There's gotta be some reason people pay me $40/hour to write.

Mazel Tov!

I think Christians must spread more hate than atheists, simply because there are more of them. If 5% of Christians in this country are hateful and 50% of atheists in this country are hateful, that still adds up to more hateful Christians than hateful atheists. :thumbs:

Is it not a directive from god/jesus to his/their followers?Think of it as a socially radical encouragement.
Does "follower" work better for you?I hope for the word "pursuer." But it may be too much to ask for. I will sent a note to Santa.
I'll take that as a compliment, Shiloh. There's gotta be some reason people pay me $40/hour to write.

Mazel Tov!It was meant as a compliment. Did you initially read it otherwise? I loved the language, and agreed with most of the content, too. Some people do have a god who is a cruel bastard. Not this guy, though. You might, or might not, have disagreed with the historical Jesus, but you would not have found him to be a hater, unless you were part of the oppression system.

:drinktoth

I think Christians must spread more hate than atheists, simply because there are more of them. If 5% of Christians in this country are hateful and 50% of atheists in this country are hateful, that still adds up to more hateful Christians than hateful atheists. :thumbs:
Never mix statistics and prejudice, it muddies the water!:slap:

Didn't you say this, on the first page of this thread:



I simply agree with you. :)



Is it not a directive from god/jesus to his/their followers?



SMW has shared her own special brand of ugliness, hatred and bile with us for some time, now. Maybe you just haven't been around long enough?



Does "follower" work better for you?



I'll take that as a compliment, Shiloh. There's gotta be some reason people pay me $40/hour to write.

Mazel Tov!

Brags about making $40 an hour and cries about not being able to afford her own health insurance. Yep, that's our liberal atheist Frannie alright!

GIMME GIMME GIMME!

Defending Christians is a far cry from what you've done in this thread, my dear. You started out with a hate-on for people who don't believe in your version of religion, and nothing's changed from post #1. You attack, insult, demean, and decry everything that doesn't conform to your rigid view of what "good people" are/do/think/say.

Wrong. I started out with a hate-on for young men who murder innocent people in church facilities. And I'd say that last sentence of yours describes YOU far better than it describes me.

Isn't turning the other cheek a directive from your god?

Let's see... which athiests here jumped up and shouted "I so freaking HAPPY that those stupid bible thumpers in Colorado got shot dead!"?

Other than the few atheists who posted opinions and received replies saying, "Are you saying those people deserved to die?"
None.

Which "believers" here jumped up and shouted "Athiests are HATERS!!"

That would be you.

Amen, sister. You're a perfect example of someone who HATES.

You're so blind to your extreme hatred and bigotry, you can't even think straight. You've contradicted yourself at every turn. You argue that Christians are good, kind, loving people, and that atheists are all hateful, ugly, aggressive, and (potentially? probably? usually?) violent toward "believers," yet in nearly the same breath you spew your own special brand of ugliness, hatred, and bile toward athiests in an unending flood.

Maybe you should speak to Jesus or your pastor about your wildly irrational anger and hatred toward those who don't participate in organized religion. I can't imagine that any god would want his subjects to be so wound up and overwrought.

Sorry if my getting mad over innocent people being killed by a young man who vowed to HATE Christians rubs you the wrong way. Maybe you could contact his family and give them a medal for his bravery?

SMW

SMW, I think people are "rubbed the wrong way" by the fact that when Christians are killed you just assume the murderer was an atheist. You have no factual/statistical reason to back that up; you just apparently think that atheists are more likely to be murderers than Christians. That's what we call prejudice.

SMW, I think people are "rubbed the wrong way" by the fact that when Christians are killed you just assume the murderer was an atheist. You have no factual/statistical reason to back that up; you just apparently think that atheists are more likely to be murderers than Christians. That's what we call prejudice.

BINGO.