"Rarely has a document from the supposedly hidden world of intelligence had such an impact as the National Intelligence Estimate released this week. Rarely has an administration been so unprepared for such an event. And rarely have vehement critics of the "intelligence community" on issues such as Iraq's weapons of mass destruction reversed themselves so quickly.

Consider these flaws in the NIE's "key judgments," which were made public even though approximately 140 pages of analysis, and reams of underlying intelligence, remain classified.

First, the headline finding -- that Iran halted its nuclear weapons program in 2003 -- is written in a way that guarantees the totality of the conclusions will be misread. In fact, there is little substantive difference between the conclusions of the 2005 NIE on Iran's nuclear capabilities and the 2007 NIE. Moreover, the distinction between "military" and "civilian" programs is highly artificial, since the enrichment of uranium, which all agree Iran is continuing, is critical to civilian and military uses (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/05/AR2007120502234.html?hpid%3Dopinionsbox1&sub=AR). Indeed, it has always been Iran's "civilian" program that posed the main risk of a nuclear "breakout."

*

Well.....the cat's outta-the-fuckin'-bag, NOW!

The Bush Admin's been knockin'-itself-out...using the term enrichment of uranium, and expecting everyone to assume that process is strictly a military/tactical-function....when Iran is doing what everyone-else (with nuclear-capabilities) is doing!!! :rolleyes:

Gee....whatta drag. The NeoCon's are expecting Iran to maintain the convenient-status of being a needy, clinging-little-bitch of a Thrid-World-country....with nothing to offer, but OIL....and, Iran refuses to play-that-role!!

It's no wonder the NeoCons are giving equal-consideration to Africa (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7128442.stm).

***

"I think we hear far too much in England about what is 'good 'for the World from the Americans! What is good for the World (American style) is not necessarily good for the rest of us (http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?forumID=3869&edition=2&ttl=20071206105314)! U.S Future policy... The U.S should try to persuade Islam to relax their stringent Laws on 'usery' and come forth with some of their oil at a reasonable price! We would all then be 'Kith and Kin' (dare I say it) Cyclops" - Peter Short, Wythall Bhm.England, United Kingdom

Why did iran start their 'civilian' nuclear program in secret and maintain it's secrecy for 18 years in violation of their NPT obligations?

Saddam could have bombed Iran nuclear plant like a dirty bomb.
*****
did that come to mind at all?

Why did iran start their 'civilian' nuclear program in secret and maintain it's secrecy for 18 years in violation of their NPT obligations?

Yes,the simple test is what a Country will willingly DO to allow
inspections and NOT try to hide programs and intent.
Iran is swimming in oil.So Nuclear power is definately not a
necessity for powering thier Country.So,right off the bat they're
full of shit.

Saddam could have bombed Iran nuclear plant like a dirty bomb.
*****
did that come to mind at all?

bombed them with what? At that point in the war no one was flying planes. They were throwing missiles at each other.

it always seems that all the sneaking around and lying by the Iraqis and Iranians gets over looked by these jokers. Actually it goes beyond over looked to downright defense of them in order to bolster their arguments agaisnt our government.

it always seems that all the sneaking around and lying by the Iraqis and Iranians gets over looked by these jokers.

I am far more worried about the lying and sneaking around being done by the thoroughly dishonest pricks presently in control of THIS country than I am the people in some country on the other side of the planet.

Iran is swimming in oil.So Nuclear power is definately not a
necessity for powering thier Country.So,right off the bat they're
full of shit.
....Or, even Iran knows Oil is a limited-resource....but, a great bargaining-chip, in the future (against those countries tryin' to squeeze every-last-penny outta their oil-investments.)

Well....at least Brazil ain't gonna get caught-up in that shit-storm.

I am far more worried about the lying and sneaking around being done by the thoroughly dishonest pricks presently in control of THIS country than I am the people in some country on the other side of the planet.

the problem is that is all you are worried about. You think all the wrong in the world is due to our actions. If it were not for us this would be a pristine world with no danger. there are bad people outside the white house you know.

You think all the wrong in the world is due to our actions.
Nah.....just where the income-potential is so attractive! (Whether the locals like it, or not!)

I am far more worried about the lying and sneaking around being done by the thoroughly dishonest pricks presently in control of THIS country than I am the people in some country on the other side of the planet.
No doubt (http://www.egypttoday.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=7752)!

Why did iran start their 'civilian' nuclear program in secret and maintain it's secrecy for 18 years in violation of their NPT obligations?

Why can't iran's defenders answer this simple question?

the problem is that is all you are worried about.

Wrong. The absolute refusal on the part of the leadership in this country to do something substantive (such as signing the Kyoto treaty) about the immense threat to the environment that is hanging over our heads is a very big problem and concern also.

You think all the wrong in the world is due to our actions.

Not "all" of it.

But the relentless military aggression on the part of the ConservaFascists who run this country begets a great deal of the violence, bloodshed and death we see happening every day throughout the world.

If it were not for us this would be a pristine world with no danger.

Not *no danger*. But certainly far less danger.

there are bad people outside the white house you know.

Absolutely.

But they are at this point far, far less likely to cause the People of this country to suffer or to be caused harm than the callous warmongers inside that edifice.

When (although *IF* should actually be the operative word here) the leaders in this country stop killing so many hundreds of thousands of innocent people around the world in their insatiable quest for oil, money and power, the world will be a far more peaceful and less dangerous and deadly place.

bombed them with what? At that point in the war no one was flying planes. They were throwing missiles at each other.
***
Like Isreal bombed Iraq's nuclear plant.

***
Like Isreal bombed Iraq's nuclear plant.

Is this supposed to be meaningful? Accounts of the war indicate no one was flying planes atpit. If you don't fly a plane, you can't bomb them.
Furthermore the entire program is supposed to be buried, underground. Do you really think iraq could locate and effectively bomb a re-inforced underground structure? Please!

Is this supposed to be meaningful? Accounts of the war indicate no one was flying planes atpit. If you don't fly a plane, you can't bomb them.
Furthermore the entire program is supposed to be buried, underground. Do you really think iraq could locate and effectively bomb a re-inforced underground structure? Please!
*****
I thought we were asking why Iran would hide it's civillian nuclear program and there are answers to that I pointed out................ "you don't want it bombed".

You can create a civilian nuclear program that doesn't move toward a nuclear bomb. That they choose to hide it says everything about their intentions.

No Waldo, that we chose to ask them why they were hiding it says everything about our intentions, don't forget that.

Why did iran start their 'civilian' nuclear program in secret and maintain it's secrecy for 18 years in violation of their NPT obligations?

Got proof?

From what I understand, Iran is in complete compliance with both the IAEA and the NPT, unlike Pakistan.

from the other thread

[QUOTE=waldo]Iran violates the treaty
1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_Non-Proliferation_Treaty
2) http://www.china.org.cn/english/international/89702.htm

Iran hinders
1) http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/international/jan-june07/iran_02-22.html
2)http://www.eurasianet.org/departments/insight/articles/eav061404.shtml
3) http://in.news.yahoo.com/070419/43/6errd.html

I could post pages of this stuff.

Retired Col. W. Patrick Lang, a former official in the Defense Intelligence Agency, reveals that senior CIA analysts pushed for the NIE’s key judgments on Iran to be released, threatening to speak to the media if they weren’t:

The “jungle telegraph” in Washington is booming with news of the Iran NIE. I am told that the reason the conclusions of the NIE were released is that it was communicated to the White House that “intelligence career seniors were lined up to go to jail if necessary” if the document’s gist were not given to the public. Translation? Someone in that group would have gone to the media “on the record” to disclose its contents.

here. (http://thinkprogress.org/2007/12/07/cia-analysts-willing-to-go-to-jail-to-ensure-nies-release/)

Lets see, who should we be worried about, Iran who is a signatory of the Non-proliferation treaty or India, Israel and Pakistan all of whom already have nukes and refuse to sign the treaty?

I am not worried about Iran.

Especially considering all the other more urgent threats out there.

You can create a civilian nuclear program that doesn't move toward a nuclear bomb. That they choose to hide it says everything about their intentions.
You mean, like.....even they're working on less-dependence on Oil??

That would throw a wrench into U.S.-planning/strategy/propaganda. :rolleyes: