Thought I'd start a separate thread, and give my thoughts:

I'll start off by saying this... the Ravens SHOULD have not let it come down to those calls. That interception by Boller, throwing the ball into nowhere when there was no need, was terrible. Ed Reed fumbled after intercepting Brady. The Ravens Offense suddenly stalled with 10 minutes left in the 4th quarter. Those are things on THEIR head that THEY can do better.

Now let's get to the good stuff:

So the Ravens messed up a few times with a lead, and let the Pats hang around. Be that as it may, there is no way the pats should have come away with that victory. There was pretty much 5-6 straight things that just "happened" to go the patriot's way, right in row, and that normally just doesn't happen. I could go play cards and get a straight flush 5 times in a row, and i'm either really lucky, or i'm cheating LOL.

1. The 4th and 1 stuff of Brady... there was a timeout called.. by the DEFENSIVE COORDINATOR, who is NOT ALLOWED to call timeout. That time out should have been nullified, because the ref should have seen it wasn't billick calling the timeout, and by the time that would have happened, the ball would have been snapped, and the game would have been over.

2. The 4th and whatever false start... yea that's crap. The play was ran, baltimore should have been able to deny the penalty because hey, it was the PATRIOTS who had the advantage.

3. The 4th and 5 "ticky tack" defensive holding on Benjamin Watson. There was SLIGHT contact, it didn't impair Watson's progress at all.. you don't call that at that portion of the game, you let the players make plays. If the Ravens' player was halting his progress, good call. But that was BARELY much of anything.

4. The tipped ball that probably gets intercepted 95% of the time, and doesn't this time. That's just luck, can't complain about that one.

5. The obviously bobbled Touchdown catch that the refs wouldn't dare overturn. When you see that the ball isn't even in the guys arms clean... the ball was barely touching his right arm and his finger tips on his left hand were barely touching when he planted.... how can you not say you don't have good evidence? There was a camera shot RIGHT THERE.. it was OBVIOUS.

6. I have never, in my years of watching football, have heard of refs verbally taunting players. Multiple players from the ravens reported that the refs were doing this. Some can say it was sour grapes.. but even after everyone cooled down, some of the calmer Ravens' defenders even said it. What is up with that? The only thing in sports I can remember like that is Milton Bradley trying to fight a first base ump because of what that ump was saying to him... and that ump got suspended.

The Ravens didn't do themselves any PR favors by getting penalty after penalty... The one guy got 2 fouls on one play.. which I don't think i've ever seen. It was an emotional meltdown because the players felt everything went against them.. not only in the game, but with slight outside help.

Am I saying there is a conspiracy? The media is trying to portray it as the only two choices. Either it was clean or Roger Godell is ordering refs to make the patriots win. I say there is a third choice. Godell isn't telling them anything. However, the advantage to the Patriots staying undefeated is obvious. The ratings of the last few games have been off the charts. Sometimes, when you want to know why something is, you just follow the money. If the Pats had lost, nobody would have cared about their games against the Steelers, Jets, Miami, and Giants. Now it's must-see TV. My theory is that while the refs aren't calling the game to favor the pats coming out of the tunnel... if it's close, they are going to give them all the benefit of the doubt... because the refs are part of the NFL, and the NFL can make tons of money off a 16-0 Pats team.

*cough* Tuck rule *cough*

1. The 4th and 1 stuff of Brady... there was a timeout called.. by the DEFENSIVE COORDINATOR, who is NOT ALLOWED to call timeout. That time out should have been nullified, because the ref should have seen it wasn't billick calling the timeout, and by the time that would have happened, the ball would have been snapped, and the game would have been over.

In the heat of the moment, I can understand why the ref called the time out. The play was about to start and you have a person frantically trying to call a time out. I don't even think the ref looked at who was trying to call it. Was it a mistake? Of course. But we wouldn't even be talking about this if Brady makes the first down, which happened AFTER the timeout.

2. The 4th and whatever false start... yea that's crap. The play was ran, baltimore should have been able to deny the penalty because hey, it was the PATRIOTS who had the advantage.

Come on Decka, this never happens in football. If there is a false start, the refs stop the play every single time. Did you consider that perhaps some of the Patriots stopped trying once they heard the whistles?

3. The 4th and 5 "ticky tack" defensive holding on Benjamin Watson. There was SLIGHT contact, it didn't impair Watson's progress at all.. you don't call that at that portion of the game, you let the players make plays. If the Ravens' player was halting his progress, good call. But that was BARELY much of anything.

It was a penalty by the letter of the law. I will agree with you that it shouldn't have been called in that situation.

5. The obviously bobbled Touchdown catch that the refs wouldn't dare overturn. When you see that the ball isn't even in the guys arms clean... the ball was barely touching his right arm and his finger tips on his left hand were barely touching when he planted.... how can you not say you don't have good evidence? There was a camera shot RIGHT THERE.. it was OBVIOUS.

It wasn't obvious to me. I only saw 2 different camera angles, the player body blocked the view on one and on the other you don't get a shot of the football. Can we infer the ball was being bobbled? Sure, but when you don't have a decent camera angle, you're not going to get the call overturned.

Am I saying there is a conspiracy? The media is trying to portray it as the only two choices. Either it was clean or Roger Godell is ordering refs to make the patriots win. I say there is a third choice. Godell isn't telling them anything. However, the advantage to the Patriots staying undefeated is obvious. The ratings of the last few games have been off the charts. Sometimes, when you want to know why something is, you just follow the money. If the Pats had lost, nobody would have cared about their games against the Steelers, Jets, Miami, and Giants. Now it's must-see TV. My theory is that while the refs aren't calling the game to favor the pats coming out of the tunnel... if it's close, they are going to give them all the benefit of the doubt... because the refs are part of the NFL, and the NFL can make tons of money off a 16-0 Pats team.

Ok, so if Godell isn't telling them anything, who is? Who's telling the refs to lean a little bit in the Pats favor? Do you realize how hard it is to do that on a moments notice? A ref has to see a foul, decide whether or not it's close enough to give it to the Patriots, then throw the flag. I understand you don't like the Patriots, but jesus...they got lucky with the calls going their way and that's all there is to it.

False start should be loss of down damnit! At least on 4th down. It is total bullshit that because they got a penalty they get to try again! how is giving them another chance when they were stopped behind the line on 4th down penalizizing them? WTF?

In the heat of the moment, I can understand why the ref called the time out. The play was about to start and you have a person frantically trying to call a time out. I don't even think the ref looked at who was trying to call it. Was it a mistake? Of course. But we wouldn't even be talking about this if Brady makes the first down, which happened AFTER the timeout.

True.. but Brady DIDN'T make the first down... that was ref error...



Come on Decka, this never happens in football. If there is a false start, the refs stop the play every single time. Did you consider that perhaps some of the Patriots stopped trying once they heard the whistles?

I agree-gree on that one.. I'm just arguing the rule. I guess the Patriots will be in the center of ANOTHER rule...

1. Five yard chuck rule (which allowed them to beat the Colts in the AFC championship game)
2. Tuck Rule (which allowed them to get past the raiders in the playoffs)
3. False start can be accepted or denied rule?



It was a penalty by the letter of the law. I will agree with you that it shouldn't have been called in that situation.

"by the letter of the law".. there is holding on every play of every game - that is pretty much understood. We both agree that it shouldn't have been called.. kinda like Dwayne Wade in the 2006 NBA finals.. if you breathed on him, it was foul. I have my suspicions about the Heat winning the finals that year... AND the steelers when they won the super bowl. Something just smelled funny about both of them.



It wasn't obvious to me. I only saw 2 different camera angles, the player body blocked the view on one and on the other you don't get a shot of the football. Can we infer the ball was being bobbled? Sure, but when you don't have a decent camera angle, you're not going to get the call overturned.

the camera angle where he was coming right at you.. it was obvious. The ball was dislodged, bouncing around in his arms, and his left hand was coming up to try to control it.. he gained control, but only had one foot in when he had full control... that was an easy call.. if it were a colts player i'd be laughing and saying "we got away with one".



Ok, so if Godell isn't telling them anything, who is? Who's telling the refs to lean a little bit in the Pats favor? Do you realize how hard it is to do that on a moments notice? A ref has to see a foul, decide whether or not it's close enough to give it to the Patriots, then throw the flag. I understand you don't like the Patriots, but jesus...they got lucky with the calls going their way and that's all there is to it.

I don't know who is... or maybe it's just understood that if the refs do the NFL this favor of giving them the benefit of the doubt in close games to keep them perfect... they'll get a "bonus" in their check. You can't deny the amount of money the NFL is making off of the patriots right now.

And obviously the refs were bias.. they were all over the baltimore players, a ref shouldn't be doing that, jabbering and harassing players verbally, no matter how much attitude baltimore has.

And yes I don't like the patriots... if they win clean, I'll admit they win clean. IF they win the super bowl clean.. I'll cede that they are the best team. But when I see iffy stuff like this.. it just makes me wonder. We can both agree that they got bailed out by the refs on 2 of the 3 4th downs. The timeout should have never been allowed, and the defensive holding was a ticky-tack foul. That's just oh-so convenient for the pats and the NFL... new lexus's for everyone!!!

There's just too many points in this game to argue or defend. Simply put, the Ravens seriously blew a chance to knock off the top team.

Don't worry guys, the Patriots will lose to Pittsburgh. It's too bad they can't BOTH lose but....

The Patriots have played terribly their past 2 games. .....so hard to keep up that kind of intensiity week in and week out. Soon we won't be hearing anything more about their winning streak, thank God.

Originally Posted by rendova
The Patriots have played terribly their past 2 games. .....so hard to keep up that kind of intensiity week in and week out. Soon we won't be hearing anything more about their winning streak, thank God.
I'd still prefer for them to be beaten by the hapless 'phins.

Don't worry guys, the Patriots will lose to Pittsburgh. It's too bad they can't BOTH lose but....

The Patriots have played terribly their past 2 games. .....so hard to keep up that kind of intensiity week in and week out. Soon we won't be hearing anything more about their winning streak, thank God.

This prediction shows why I stopped betting on games a long time ago, lol.

PS. Is there ANY team that's not afraid to , uh, hurt, ie, hit hard, the Patriots? (besides the Ravens). The Steelers looked like sissyboys today.

Patriots totally laid the smackdown on the Steelers today. At least in the second half. They passed the ball like 40 straight times! And like 6 in a row to Wes Welker. Brady and his passing game are unstoppable. I actually got to watch 3/4 of the game while sitting in the dental clinic at the TMC this morning, lol.