Here's a guy who understands what "Less Lethal" means.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6308798817490580290&q=taser+killing&total=123&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

I don't want to start another thread, so: No one dies in this next one, but I'm sure you taser fans will still enjoy how the 78 yr. old guy got zapped.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3986580540245785862&q=78+taser&total=6&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

I dunno man. It's not like the dude just dropped dead after he got tasered. He kept struggling for a while. Who's to say he didnt struggle himself into a heart attack? Or maybe that cop beating him with the baton did him in.

Just one more for now. (No one dies.)

This is freaking great. Watch this, no matter which side you fall on in the taser dabate!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5855576271616133853&q=78+taser&total=6&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

I dunno man. It's not like the dude just dropped dead after he got tasered. He kept struggling for a while. Who's to say he didnt struggle himself into a heart attack? Or maybe that cop beating him with the baton did him in.Or, gee, maybe it was just his time, huh? C'mon!

I dont think anyone has said that there are no cases of abuse with tasers. Just no one agreed with you about the earlier video's you showed. The one you started this thread with is an abuse of the taser. At the very least, they could have waited until someone who spoke the dude's language arrived to see what his malfunction was.

Or, gee, maybe it was just his time, huh? C'mon!
You said he was tasered to death. I say he lived after he was tased. Since we have no report to go with the video, all we have to go by is what we see. The only way i know the guy even died is because the title said he did.

My primary point is that a "less lethal" weapon should not be used unless there is no alternative available to the officer, beside the traditional sidearm, due to the threat level of the target. In none of the cases I've seen on these boards do I believe that standard was met.

But, there are some who are willing to risk the life of another human being over something pretty minor. They say everyone is a danger to the cops, then they say I'm the one being over dramatic. Sad to me.

Anyway, look at the last link I tossed up. It's funny. I'm tired of going round and round tonight.

You said he was tasered to death. I say he lived after he was tased. Since we have no report to go with the video, all we have to go by is what we see. The only way i know the guy even died is because the title said he did.So if I shoot you and you don't die instanly, I guess I didn't kill you with my gun, huh?

Not trying to thread-jack, but....

It's not that deaths by supposed non-lethal devices is not interesting or anything, but if one wants to look at police related deaths I think that vehicle chases account for many more deaths than tasers (including deaths of the perpetrators, police, and innocents)

Understand that I am not "pointing the finger" at the police here. What I fail to understand is the public's evolving change related to doing what they are told by a law enforcement officer. I read that something like 90% of police chases are not felony related, so why do people run?

Have we watched so many dumb-ass movies and TV shows that we think that we are stunt men? Are we so mad at authority that we choose to ignore them? Are that many of the populace so mentally imbalanced that this is a "logical" thing for them to do (resisting, arguing, or running)? Or are we so selfish and self absorbed now that we are "above" the law?

I don't think it's tasering/shooting/beatings/chases that is the issue here... I think it is our society.

Of course, that's just an OldPhart's opinion.

... but I'm sure you taser fans will still enjoy how the 78 yr. old guy got zapped.

Your debates might go more smoothly if you didn't deliberately misrepresent other people's arguments and insult them. :)

I dont think anyone has said that there are no cases of abuse with tasers.

Quite so.


Just no one agreed with you about the earlier video's you showed.

Agreed.


The one you started this thread with is an abuse of the taser.

That remains to be determined.


At the very least, they could have waited until someone who spoke the dude's language arrived to see what his malfunction was.

I can't agree with you there, HaVok. The guy in the airport was obviously erratic and presented an immediate danger to himself, and others. I think the cops were right in trying to subdue him. Whether he spoke a word of English or not, I suspect he recognized the police when they showed up.

I also suspect that having the cop kneel on his neck was more harmful than the tasing.

My primary point is that a "less lethal" weapon should not be used unless there is no alternative available to the officer, beside the traditional sidearm, due to the threat level of the target. In none of the cases I've seen on these boards do I believe that standard was met.



Just so I'm clear here, are you saying that a cop should only use his taser if he's also presented with a threat that would justify the use of a firearm?

I think it would be a good rule to use if tazers turned out to be a lot more dangerous than we thought they were, But I'm willing to allow them to be used in any situation where someone is visibly threatening an officer.

But I also feel that police officers should be subjected to the same restrictions on the use of force as civilians do. Their advantage in confrontations should come from training and authority rather than an ability to abuse weaponry as well as physical force. Police officers seem to be more than willing to use brutal means to subdue less than violent persons. As evidenced in every single tazer video shown so here far. Frantic, insubordinate, crazy, disrespectful, even hostile, are all not violent.

Here you go!

A taser-proof vest (just in case you wanna resist)

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&S1=7,284,280&OS=7,284,280&RS=7,284,280

:)

Your debates might go more smoothly if you didn't deliberately misrepresent other people's arguments and insult them. :)That's how it looks to me.

Why don't you at least consider what is being said here, Vile, rather than just arguing about it and trying to refute it? Think about it rather than calling it rediculous out of hand.

Just so I'm clear here, are you saying that a cop should only use his taser if he's also presented with a threat that would justify the use of a firearm?That was the point of a "less lethal weapon."

Now it is being used for all sorts of complience issues where no threat at all is present. It should not be used simply to force complience.

Here you go!

A taser-proof vest (just in case you wanna resist)
Or, heaven forbid, you don't move at the pace the cop wants you to. Too bad we live in a society where we'd have to consider such an item for a simple drive to the store.

Just so I'm clear here, are you saying that a cop should only use his taser if he's also presented with a threat that would justify the use of a firearm?
To justify using a taser was/is supposed to replace the firearm in certain situations so then the use of a taser should be limited.......... If the assailant is un armed and a little shaken by a police interest; an electrical shock is the last thing one needs..........

That's how it looks to me.

I can't understand why.


Why don't you at least consider what is being said here, Vile, rather than just arguing about it and trying to refute it? Think about it rather than calling it rediculous out of hand.

Are we talking about the same thing?

Yes, I think it's ridiculous to suggest that anyone here enjoys watching an elderly man get tasered.

That was the point of a "less lethal weapon."

Now it is being used for all sorts of complience issues where no threat at all is present. It should not be used simply to force complience.

The very act of non-compliance is a threat. Non-compliance forces the police to go beyond verbal force and into the realm of physical force.

Honestly Shiloh, I agree with you to a point. I don't like the idea of a cop using a taser as a torture device any more than you do, but when used to effect an arrest, I don't see it as any worse than using a nightstick. Can it be abused? Certainly, and I'm equally certain it has been, and will be abused. Given the choice, I'd rather be tasered into a pair of handcuffs than clubbed into them, and I strongly suspect that tasers are a lot less deadly than brute physical force.