I worried about my response to you, too, Tuck. Allforums is a TOUGH messageboard period, so you're not alone in having a rough time here. I never intend to hurt people, but I do tend to try and return the favor when attacked, so I can understand why some people would just as soon avoid talking to me. I'm glad we cleared the air. And I appreciate your honesty. I promise I'll never try to bite your head off.

God bless you.

;)
SMW

Thank you :) All forums.net does separate the Men from the boys :)

SMW my head is on the block if you ever think that I am out of line (that damn Sparky will allow me to get myself banned, he reminds me of God.). Some one has to keep me honest :) and I do trust you. OK?

Love you!

tuck

[QUOTE=Scumbelina]

Tucker58 flirts gently with Scumbelina :)

Love you!

tuck


LMAO at "flirts gently...."

That was SO funny :p

[QUOTE=smartmouthwoman]I worried about my response to you, too, Tuck. Allforums is a TOUGH messageboard period, so you're not alone in having a rough time here. I never intend to hurt people, but I do tend to try and return the favor when attacked, so I can understand why some people would just as soon avoid talking to me. I'm glad we cleared the air. And I appreciate your honesty. I promise I'll never try to bite your head off.


Bullfrog.If you want a tough Message board,than try and survive
the Glory days of Clore & Alice34 at IMDb.com.

Son, Mr. Foolsworth, you are a party in the making. You are angry at the world and the world is All forums.net. There is no difference between you and Mr. Shaman.

A couple of angry old guys angry at the world and playing here on all forums.net. :) You are not even good enough to be "bad". All you are is angry. I was there in "Clore and Alice" and others like it. The gift of All Forums.net is "creativity", not just your version of raw angry "BS".

tuck :)

[QUOTE=tucker58]


LMAO at "flirts gently...."

That was SO funny :p

:) I am glad that it was as good for you as it was for me :)

tuck

PS: With you things will never get boring! I love that part :) ! I love you, you are actually fun! :) What ever that means :)

There is a God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)

You're right, Tuck. But only about God being real in the hearts of those who believe in Him. Not about me being the most 'dangerous' person around here. Yeah, I'm opinionated on some subjects and not afraid to speak my mind... and I have a smartmouth. Duh. But other than that, I'm really quite harmless. Heck, I don't even own a gun!

;)
SMW

Humans can believe any thing in their "heart". The argument of personal experience has been thrown out the window a long time ago. Some people believing that aliens live in their basement, does not make it so.

Humans can believe any thing in their "heart". The argument of personal experience has been thrown out the window a long time ago. Some people believing that aliens live in their basement, does not make it so.

You're right, Mesk. Until you feel it, you'll never be able to believe it. Unfortunately, some people are incapable of having faith in anything they can't touch or smell or see... or prove. But ask them about evolution and they'll sure fill you in on what they think about that! It's simply a matter of whose writings you choose to believe since none of us were around when it actually happened, eh?

;)
SMW

One may "believe" both. It is not an either/or proposition.

One may "believe" both. It is not an either/or proposition.

You're right, Shiloh. Funny how us humans usually feel it's necessary to take sides, ain't it?

;)
SMW

You're right, Shiloh. Funny how us humans usually feel it's necessary to take sides, ain't it?

;)
SMWDiscernment is a scary thing. It demands attention, concern and responsibility. Much easier to see things in black and white, in this area or others.

Aside from the naked thing (which I agree might work), I've never had any church except Jehovah's Witnesses send people to my door in an effort to 'tell me the good news.' Trust me, if you give those folks a chance to come in and sit on your sofa, you'll be bombarded with what they think. Their church happens to believe that it's their MISSION to spread the news.

I'd liken their methods to inviting FT into one's home to hear HIS side of the issue. He seems to be on a very similar mission if you ask me. ;)

The 'door-knocking Christians' are a myth in the minds of atheists. Not to say they don't exist at all (even though you admit they've never come to you) but they're not half as motivated to convert nonbelievers as they are to help people who've lost their way and think they have no where else to turn.

Hmmmm, wonder what those JW's would've done if I'd answered the door naked??

;)
SMW YOu say that only the JW's have come to your door trying to spread the word but in post #92 you said you have had other churches come to your door and hand out literature and invite you to you church. Sounds like they were trying to do the same thing don't you think? And you have never had any Mormons come to your door? Do you really think that atheists are trying to convert you? I personally don't have any agenda to convert you to anything. Just because someone posts their point of few does not necessarily mean they are trying to convert you. And message/debate board would be the place to do this not coming to someone's front door and doing it!

YOu say that only the JW's have come to your door trying to spread the word but in post #92 you said you have had other churches come to your door and hand out literature and invite you to you church. Sounds like they were trying to do the same thing don't you think? And you have never had any Mormons come to your door? Do you really think that atheists are trying to convert you? I personally don't have any agenda to convert you to anything. Just because someone posts their point of few does not necessarily mean they are trying to convert you. And message/debate board would be the place to do this not coming to someone's front door and doing it!

See, that's the thing about atheists... everything is taken so literally!

Guess I'd have to know your definition of spreading the word as opposed to inviting you to church. I've NEVER had any church except the JW's come to my door and try to convince me their way is the right way (that's a repeat of what I've already said here). However, I have had members of other congregations stop by and invite me to attend their services, hand me a pamphlet, say, "God bless you" -- turn around and walk off. I don't consider that trying to convert anyone.

And LOL @ the Mormon question. I've lived next door to a Mormon family for the last 20 years and they've never even mentioned their religion to me! Have you had herds of Mormons showing up at your door? Do they all ride bicycles and wear white shirts and dark pants?? Were you scared????

:hug:

See, that's the thing about atheists... everything is taken so literally!

Guess I'd have to know your definition of spreading the word as opposed to inviting you to church. I've NEVER had any church except the JW's come to my door and try to convince me their way is the right way (that's a repeat of what I've already said here). However, I have had members of other congregations stop by and invite me to attend their services, hand me a pamphlet, say, "God bless you" -- turn around and walk off. I don't consider that trying to convert anyone.

And LOL @ the Mormon question. I've lived next door to a Mormon family for the last 20 years and they've never even mentioned their religion to me! Have you had herds of Mormons showing up at your door? Do they all ride bicycles and wear white shirts and dark pants?? Were you scared????

:hug: Well first of all I can't speak for all atheist so I can only say I certainly don't take everything I read literally. And I understand that the other churches just may have handed out literature and invited you to their church. But don't you think they wanted you to hear the "good news" from their church. And yes all the Mormons that have showed up at my house were riding bikes and had blond hair and white shirts and black pants. Really, but I don't think I have ever had a mormon come to my home here in northern california. When I lived in texas though I had a few visit me. I have had a seventh-day adventist come by my place here though. Yikes, now he was a little scary and he gave me a tape about the end of time. I would say it was hilarious except for the fact people really believe that bunk. He did assure me though I would not spend an eternity burning in hell but as a non-believer I would just be burnt to a crisp. No eternal sufferning. :rolleyes:

Well first of all I can't speak for all atheist so I can only say I certainly don't take everything I read literally. And I understand that the other churches just may have handed out literature and invited you to their church. But don't you think they wanted you to hear the "good news" from their church. And yes all the Mormons that have showed up at my house were riding bikes and had blond hair and white shirts and black pants. Really, but I don't think I have ever had a mormon come to my home here in northern california. When I lived in texas though I had a few visit me. I have had a seventh-day adventist come by my place here though. Yikes, now he was a little scary and he gave me a tape about the end of time. I would say it was hilarious except for the fact people really believe that bunk. He did assure me though I would not spend an eternity burning in hell but as a non-believer I would just be burnt to a crisp. No eternal sufferning. :rolleyes:

Well, that last part was kinda good news, no??

Interesting how atheists (at least you) seem to have more visits from religious folks than the rest of us. Sort of thing that makes one go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

;)
SMW

You're right, Mesk. Until you feel it, you'll never be able to believe it. Unfortunately, some people are incapable of having faith in anything they can't touch or smell or see... or prove. But ask them about evolution and they'll sure fill you in on what they think about that! It's simply a matter of whose writings you choose to believe since none of us were around when it actually happened, eh?

;)
SMW


That little wink at the end of your post does nothing, firstly. And secondly, humans are able to make themselves "feel" or "think" anything. Again, this argument has been thrown out the window.

Well, that last part was kinda good news, no??

Interesting how atheists (at least you) seem to have more visits from religious folks than the rest of us. Sort of thing that makes one go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

;)
SMW


Yeah...its god calling..you better answer. Can't you see a sign when its right at your front door! Gimme a break.

That little wink at the end of your post does nothing, firstly. And secondly, humans are able to make themselves "feel" or "think" anything. Again, this argument has been thrown out the window.

Here's a novel idea, Mesk... why don't you quit trying to blame ME for your inability to believe in God? Personally, I think you're just fine the way you are... hostile, arrogant and argumentative. You know -- atheist-like?

If anybody's argument is going out the window, it's yours, dear.

:bike:
SMW

Humans can believe any thing in their "heart". The argument of personal experience has been thrown out the window a long time ago. Some people believing that aliens live in their basement, does not make it so.

Mesk, I think that you have stepped into that one :) Aliens do live in some peoples basements :) ! They do you know :)

tuck

One may "believe" both. It is not an either/or proposition.

Shiloh :) what you have posted is totally unhuman! The human mind does not work the way that yours does :) !

Sheesh!

tuck

You're right, Shiloh. Funny how us humans usually feel it's necessary to take sides, ain't it?

;)
SMW

I am on SMW's side and I don't give a darn :) where that side goes :) !

tuck

Here's a novel idea, Mesk... why don't you quit trying to blame ME for your inability to believe in God? Personally, I think you're just fine the way you are... hostile, arrogant and argumentative. You know -- atheist-like?

If anybody's argument is going out the window, it's yours, dear.

:bike:
SMW


We are on a debate board, we are here to argue. Arrogant? I'll give you that one. I hear that ALL the time!!

Well, that last part was kinda good news, no??

Interesting how atheists (at least you) seem to have more visits from religious folks than the rest of us. Sort of thing that makes one go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

;)
SMW

If it was not for a really few cool Christians you so called "atheists" would have nobody to kick around. And this "Religious Forum" would become "Kaput" and cease to exist. :)

Love! :)

tuck

We are on a debate board, we are here to argue. Arrogant? I'll give you that one. I hear that ALL the time!!

Tuck gives Mesk a "Hug!" Tuck is "arrogant" too :) !

tuck :)

Yeah...its god calling..you better answer. Can't you see a sign when its right at your front door! Gimme a break.

Arrogant is someone with alittle over 400 posts (492) calling themseves a "Veteran Member" :)

Love you Mesk!

tuck :)

Well first of all I can't speak for all atheist so I can only say I certainly don't take everything I read literally. And I understand that the other churches just may have handed out literature and invited you to their church. But don't you think they wanted you to hear the "good news" from their church. And yes all the Mormons that have showed up at my house were riding bikes and had blond hair and white shirts and black pants. Really, but I don't think I have ever had a mormon come to my home here in northern california. When I lived in texas though I had a few visit me. I have had a seventh-day adventist come by my place here though. Yikes, now he was a little scary and he gave me a tape about the end of time. I would say it was hilarious except for the fact people really believe that bunk. He did assure me though I would not spend an eternity burning in hell but as a non-believer I would just be burnt to a crisp. No eternal sufferning. :rolleyes:

Afinertouch :) you not suffering takes all of the fun out of things :) God I love being a Christian!

tucker58 :)

Arrogant is someone with alittle over 400 posts (492) calling themseves a "Veteran Member" :)

Love you Mesk!

tuck :)

What do the admins consider to be a veteran?

What do the admins consider to be a veteran?
Newbie 0
Junior Member 10
Regular Member 30
Veteran Member 100
Senior Member 500
Allforums Elder 5000

Newbie 0
Junior Member 10
Regular Member 30
Veteran Member 100
Senior Member 500
Allforums Elder 5000

Ah man, I have gotten myself in trouble again!

I got confused because Napster is "Mean Mugguns". I don't know how many posts that you have to have before you can be that.

I owe somebody out there that is a "Veteran Member" an apology and a "congrats!" for making it to a "Veteran Member" on All Forums.net.

Oh my God it is Mesk :) and I actually really like him! Damn! Damn! Damn!

Tuck will attempt to be undaunted and carry on. Anyway Mesk I am truely sorry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are welcomed and truely loved! And "Congrats for making it to "All Forums.net Vet!"

Peeking out and hoping that he survives this really embarr"ass"ing experience, tuck!

Peeking out and hoping that he survives this really embarr"ass"ing experience, tuck!


I love you man!

Is that appropriate? It's platonic love only no where near as potent and not even close to being halfway to close to being romantic. It's more like a friendly pat on the back kind of love.

Well, maybe its not love, but it sounds good when someone is embarrassed.

You suck!
:lolhit:

Arrogant is someone with alittle over 400 posts (492) calling themseves a "Veteran Member" :)

Love you Mesk!

tuck :)

I'm not calling myself "Veteran Member".

Well, that last part was kinda good news, no??

Interesting how atheists (at least you) seem to have more visits from religious folks than the rest of us. Sort of thing that makes one go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

;)
SMW Well I was not an atheist when I got the majority of the visits!!! And how do you know how many visits everyone else has had?

I hear what you're saying, Ang, but in my way of thinking, if you don't believe in a supreme being, then you believe you ARE a supreme being. IOW, that there are no limits to what mankind can accomplish because there is nothing in the universe more 'special' than we are.

No, that is a preposterous assumption on your part. I don't believe there are any supreme beings period.

Sorry, but I don't buy that.

Also don't buy the 'life is a natural consequence of the laws of the universe'... because nobody can explain how that first 'chemical' came to be. Nor how the universe came to be. Nor how what we call 'nature' makes a flower bloom... but we can't create nature... not even a single seed. The alternative to God existing is that all that exists around us came about by natural cause and random chance. If someone is rolling dice, the odds of rolling a pair of sixes is one thing. But the odds of spots appearing on blank dice is something else. What Pasteur attempted to prove centuries ago, science confirms, that life cannot arise from non-life. Where did human, animal, plant life come from?

There is no mechanism controling the outcome of a diceroll so this has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with natural selection. Natural selection is the same as you playing Yatzee and choosing what dice to keep. We all know the difference that makes. Saying that life cannot arise is not proven in any way either. On the contrary experiments show that the elements of life easily come together. They are even created in supernovas and float freely in space as dust clouds. Calling the "it was magic" card really doesn't provide a plausible explanation either.

Also, natural causes are an inadequate explanation for the amount of precise information contained in human DNA. A person who discounts God is left with the conclusion that all of this came about without cause, without design, and is merely good fortune. It is intellectually wanting to observe intricate design and attribute it to luck.

Actually natural causes are far from inadequate to explain any of your statements. Saying that it must have a cause is presumptuous.

I find it amusing that you would use the term 'remove the scales from ones eyes' to describe the revelation that there is no God... when that phrase comes directly from the Bible.

See, Bible is the scales, written by old ignorant men 2000+ years ago.

Life without believing in God is a self-centered existence. And I'm not saying that's necessarily a BAD thing. Many people live long and fruitful lives believing they have no one to answer to but themselves. However, I think if the whole planet believed that to be true, there would be mass chaos and disorder. Obviously, a couple of thousand years ago, others believed the same thing and wrote a book to live by. The same book you just used a quote from and was in the nightstand of the last hotel I stayed at.

There is no relation between selfishness and religion. People are selfish or selfless regardless of faith. That is actually a quite insulting statement.

80% of the world's population believes in some sort of God. So it doesn't really matter if a fringe of society believes otherwise. Throughout history, people who believe they're put on this earth for a reason have helped form the world we live in. It's far from perfect... but it's all we've got, regardless of how it got here in the first place.

It is all we got, realizing that has nothing to do with faith as people who are not religious believe the same. Actually religious people tend to care less as many are just sitting around waiting for armageddon.

I understand that it's easier to believe we're the masters of our own destiny and nobody else is in charge but us. Must be responsible for that wonderful feeling of freedom you describe. Knowing all the answers is impossible, although as you mention, many very intelligent people have tried to learn life's secrets (like Einstein). But the reality of the matter is... he's dead. He may truly know the answers now, but he can't fill us with wonder at his perceptions anymore, regardless of what he might know now.

Well, nothing is easier than believing in stories made up to make people happy and stop asking questions. If What Einstein left us can't fill you with wonder, you actually have no idea what Einstein contributed to science.

If I'm gonna live my life believing in something no one can prove, I'd simply rather have faith in the word of God. If that makes me an idiot, it's OK. I'm certainly not the only one who feels that way.

;)
SMW

Well, I have read the Bible a few times, and the more that book is read the less it makes sense and less trustworthy it seems.

I love you man!

Is that appropriate? It's platonic love only no where near as potent and not even close to being halfway to close to being romantic. It's more like a friendly pat on the back kind of love.

Well, maybe its not love, but it sounds good when someone is embarrassed.

You suck!
:lolhit:

What you said works for me :)

It is kind of a bitch being a Christian on this beloved messageboard, but somebody needs to do it :)

And this :) it turns out that "angry people" get banned from this messageboard. So the game for some menbers is to succesfully create "angry" while staying under the "radar" of the Moderators. Frogger kind of mentioned this in one of his posts.

I just want to be a "smart ass". I do not want to get anybody banned. At the sametime some of the established folks are so good at "pissing folks off" that All Forums.net should be concidered a class in "Anger Management". :)

:upyours: I do not consider that smiley a sexual experience Inviolable :)

:hula: :) now maybe this one :)

Love you!

John/tuck

I'm not calling myself "Veteran Member".

Tucker58 kneels at Mesk's feet. Please forgive me sir. I am still a newbe on this mesageboard. I am still screwing up.

You Mesk are a gift to this messageboard. I am the problem and there are folks behind the scenes working on solving me as a problem.

Anyway Mesk, what I posted to you was way out of line.

tuck

No, that is a preposterous assumption on your part. I don't believe there are any supreme beings period.



There is no mechanism controling the outcome of a diceroll so this has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with natural selection. Natural selection is the same as you playing Yatzee and choosing what dice to keep. We all know the difference that makes. Saying that life cannot arise is not proven in any way either. On the contrary experiments show that the elements of life easily come together. They are even created in supernovas and float freely in space as dust clouds. Calling the "it was magic" card really doesn't provide a plausible explanation either.



Actually natural causes are far from inadequate to explain any of your statements. Saying that it must have a cause is presumptuous.



See, Bible is the scales, written by old ignorant men 2000+ years ago.



There is no relation between selfishness and religion. People are selfish or selfless regardless of faith. That is actually a quite insulting statement.



It is all we got, realizing that has nothing to do with faith as people who are not religious believe the same. Actually religious people tend to care less as many are just sitting around waiting for armageddon.



Well, nothing is easier than believing in stories made up to make people happy and stop asking questions. If What Einstein left us can't fill you with wonder, you actually have no idea what Einstein contributed to science.



Well, I have read the Bible a few times, and the more that book is read the less it makes sense and less trustworthy it seems.

Ya! SMW :) ! I guess that you were told :) !

SMW may I step into the above post? Her answers are pretty standard issue. I know that you can handle this, it is just that I would like to have a try at it. Training and experience and all, under your guidance?

tuck

Ya! SMW :) ! I guess that you were told :) !

SMW may I step into the above post? Her answers are pretty standard issue. I know that you can handle this, it is just that I would like to have a try at it. Training and experience and all, under your guidance?

tuck

Of course my answers are standard, I'm mostly correction a series of common misconceptions of scientific principles. Seriously, if people want to argue against science, they should actually look a bit into what they are claiming science and atheism is instead of pulling out religious cliches and misguided ideas.

I can recommend a few good books regarding many of the topics she mentioned. As for my own opinions about religion and the validity of it, they are my opinions and observations and not facts.

I also get a bit annoyed when it is claimed that not believing in god makes you selfish, unethical and without values. In many areas it is quite the opposite, and in total, religion or no religion makes little difference in that matter.

I also get a bit annoyed when it is claimed that not believing in god makes you selfish, unethical and without values. In many areas it is quite the opposite, and in total, religion or no religion makes little difference in that matter.Ironically, the pursuit of salvation itself is inherently an act of selfishness.

No, that is a preposterous assumption on your part. I don't believe there are any supreme beings period.

People were convinced the earth was flat at one time too... until they learned differently.

There is no mechanism controling the outcome of a diceroll so this has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with natural selection. Natural selection is the same as you playing Yatzee and choosing what dice to keep. We all know the difference that makes. Saying that life cannot arise is not proven in any way either. On the contrary experiments show that the elements of life easily come together. They are even created in supernovas and float freely in space as dust clouds. Calling the "it was magic" card really doesn't provide a plausible explanation either.

Angelina, I challenge you to show me ONE instance where science has been able to create life. Natural selection has nothing to do with this discussion because in order for natural selection to take place, LIFE, even if it's in the form of a single cell, has to exist in the first place. Prove to me where science has been able to create life from nothing and we'll talk about it further.

Actually natural causes are far from inadequate to explain any of your statements. Saying that it must have a cause is presumptuous.

Again, please give me your explanation of the 'cause of life.'

See, Bible is the scales, written by old ignorant men 2000+ years ago.

And who says atheists are arrogant? Such disrespect for your ancestors. If those ignorant old men weren't around back then, you probably wouldn't be around right now, dear. Or do you think you evolved from a more recent ape?

There is no relation between selfishness and religion. People are selfish or selfless regardless of faith. That is actually a quite insulting statement.

It is all we got, realizing that has nothing to do with faith as people who are not religious believe the same. Actually religious people tend to care less as many are just sitting around waiting for armageddon.

You can't say it has 'nothing to do with faith' since every society on this earth has been influenced by religious beliefs for at least the last 2,000 years. Religious beliefs has everything to do with the morality of the present-day world. Your last sentence screams bigotry and disrespect for people who would never do you any harm. Shame on you.

Well, nothing is easier than believing in stories made up to make people happy and stop asking questions. If What Einstein left us can't fill you with wonder, you actually have no idea what Einstein contributed to science.

Einstein was brilliant, Ang. But he was far from the ONLY brilliant man in the history of the world. He just happened to be an atheist, where the majority of other brilliant men believed in God. Does that make what he contributed even more important than the others? I think not. Does it make what he believed to be unquestionable truth? Not a chance. But atheist seem to have selected him to be their posterboy and I understand that. After all, there aren't all that many atheists to choose from in the genius pool.

Well, I have read the Bible a few times, and the more that book is read the less it makes sense and less trustworthy it seems.

Well, maybe you shouldn't bother reading the Bible. Just go outside and ponder that beautiful purple flower that opens in the morning sun... and wonder who could make something like that. I can guarantee you Einstein couldn't make one and neither can your beloved science.

;)
SMW

Ironically, the pursuit of salvation itself is inherently an act of selfishness.

You're absolutely right, Sedan. The pursuit of salvation is indeed as selfish an act as the will to live. Survival, whether in this life or the hereafter, is one of the most basic human acts of selfishness.

If I used the word 'selfish' to describe my view of non-believers, I did so by mistake. The word I meant to use was self-centered. To deny the existence of God says one believes there doesn't exist an entity more powerful than ones self. It also says, "I am the Alpha and the Omega... the beginning and the end of my own finite experience on this earth. No Supreme Being was responsible for the miracle of my birth, and there'll be no Supreme Being to answer to when I die." If there is no God, it's really kinda sad that atheists will never have a chance to say, "I told you so!"

;)
SMW

Ya! SMW :) ! I guess that you were told :) !

SMW may I step into the above post? Her answers are pretty standard issue. I know that you can handle this, it is just that I would like to have a try at it. Training and experience and all, under your guidance?

tuck

LOL @ Tuck. You don't need permission to respond to any post, Tuck. This is an open discussion and your input is just as important as anybody elses... no matter who's talking to whom!

I've kinda gotten a kick outta some of the accusations flying around here. You'd think those pushy Christians who come a knockin on doors were holding guns and forcing people to listen to their 'good news' huh? I'm thinkin they should post signs saying, "ATHEIST... NO CHRISTIANS NEED KNOCK" on their porches, don't you? Save everybody alot of needless hassles.

;)
SMW

To deny the existence of God says one believes there doesn't exist an entity more powerful than ones self.

Not at all. It may merely mean that one doesn't believe in the supernatural.


It also says, "I am the Alpha and the Omega... the beginning and the end of my own finite experience on this earth.

Only if you believe that an "afterlife" necessitates a "supreme being".


No Supreme Being was responsible for the miracle of my birth, and there'll be no Supreme Being to answer to when I die."

I see no reason that a supreme being is necessary for either of these things to occur.


If there is no God, it's really kinda sad that atheists will never have a chance to say, "I told you so!"


I think it's more sad to contemplate all the wasted effort people will have put into worshiping the non-existent.

People were convinced the earth was flat at one time too... until they learned differently.

Yup, until science told them religion was wrong. The idea the earth was flat was upheld by religion as the bible said it was so. Ancient cultures before this knew it wasn't so.

Angelina, I challenge you to show me ONE instance where science has been able to create life. Natural selection has nothing to do with this discussion because in order for natural selection to take place, LIFE, even if it's in the form of a single cell, has to exist in the first place. Prove to me where science has been able to create life from nothing and we'll talk about it further.

Why does science have to create life? It took billions of years the first time...
That is just a preposterous demand. Let me flip the coin and challenge you to show me any life created by a supernatural being.

Again, please give me your explanation of the 'cause of life.'

I don't make up my own explanations, I read.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/abioprob/spontaneous-generation.html
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/abioprob/originoflife.html

And who says atheists are arrogant? Such disrespect for your ancestors. If those ignorant old men weren't around back then, you probably wouldn't be around right now, dear. Or do you think you evolved from a more recent ape?

That statement does in no validate their claims. Do you also believe Thor creates lightening by hitting his hammer on the mountains while riding his carriage across the sky with his 8 legged horse? Cause the ancestors believed that too...

You can't say it has 'nothing to do with faith' since every society on this earth has been influenced by religious beliefs for at least the last 2,000 years. Religious beliefs has everything to do with the morality of the present-day world. Your last sentence screams bigotry and disrespect for people who would never do you any harm. Shame on you.

Religion don't do any harm? You GOT to be kidding. Anyway, the basic morality predates any religion. All research into the matter shows that. Society structure and basic laws were not invented by Moses.

Einstein was brilliant, Ang. But he was far from the ONLY brilliant man in the history of the world. He just happened to be an atheist, where the majority of other brilliant men believed in God. Does that make what he contributed even more important than the others? I think not. Does it make what he believed to be unquestionable truth? Not a chance. But atheist seem to have selected him to be their posterboy and I understand that. After all, there aren't all that many atheists to choose from in the genius pool.

Most famous men through history did not mix their religious upbringing with their work, something many of them had to suffer greatly for by the hands of the fundamentalists.

Well, maybe you shouldn't bother reading the Bible. Just go outside and ponder that beautiful purple flower that opens in the morning sun... and wonder who could make something like that. I can guarantee you Einstein couldn't make one and neither can your beloved science.

Science can't make it because we are just simple humans, God can't make it cause he doesn't exist, the flower is an expression of the beauty of the universe in all its magnificent detail.

Anyway, you seem to have this screwed idea that if humans can't make something, then god must have done it. That is about the most irrational demand I have ever heard put on science. Religion has never been able to show any proof of the supernatural, thus there is no reason to have to believe in it unless you choose to do so based on faith and not rational thought.

Tell me, why did you stop believing in Santa or the Tooth Fairy? Why do you not believe in the religions of your ancient ancestors? Why can't Buddhism be correct? Or other Asian philosophies? When a dog dies, a parent may tell the child it has gone to a farm in the countryside, as grown ups we smile at this and realize its just something they say to comfort children. So why do so many grown up people believe the exact same story when a person dies? Is it so hard to see that these stories are made up for the exact same reason?

[QUOTE=Vilepagan]Not at all. It may merely mean that one doesn't believe in the supernatural.

So,you admit that you haven't a clue as to what happens after
we Perish.What about Birth.Explain,since you needn't any Religion
or Faith in a Creator,how Life begins and possibly when.
If No supernatural act ever took place,how did cells,DNA etc.
happen.What happened one nanosecond before The
Big Bang.? Or how did Bacteria develop from nothing.?


If Worship is a complete waste of time,then what is Time necessary for.?
Because Time HAD to be created.
Unless you could explain infinity to us all.

So,you admit that you haven't a clue as to what happens after
we Perish.What about Birth.Explain,since you needn't any Religion
or Faith in a Creator,how Life begins and possibly when.
If No supernatural act ever took place,how did cells,DNA etc.
happen.What happened one nanosecond before The
Big Bang.? Or how did Bacteria develop from nothing.?


If Worship is a complete waste of time,then what is Time necessary for.?
Because Time HAD to be created.
Unless you could explain infinity to us all.

I suggest you read up a bit on bigbang theory, there is no nanosecond before bigbang. As for the other points, see the links in my previous post.

Yup, until science told them religion was wrong. The idea the earth was flat was upheld by religion as the bible said it was so. Ancient cultures before this knew it wasn't so.
Bible never said the world was flat.

Bible never said the world was flat.

Well, it is suggested, and was interpreted that way.
You know, world corners and the end of the world and all that.
Also the geocentric universe is a biblical concept, and was strongly enforced by the catholic church to the point Galileo had to renounce his life's work.

Well, it is suggested, and was interpreted that way.
You know, world corners and the end of the world and all that.

It also says, it was round. But I see your point.

Also the geocentric universe is a biblical concept, and was strongly enforced by the catholic church to the point Galileo had to renounce his life's work.

Well, yeah.

Can't argue that. But that was hundreds of years ago when all we really had was superstition. You cant just blame religion. I know the guy had to go through a lot in his life in the name of religion. But quite a bit of that was simply blamed on religion because of superstition.

I mean, people were calling shadows resulting from moon light hitting a tree or something, spirits and referring to the bible on how to deal with it.
I dont think it was so much to do with Christian nature as it did to do with human nature.

It also says, it was round. But I see your point.


Well, yeah.

Can't argue that. But that was hundreds of years ago when all we really had was superstition. You cant just blame religion. I know the guy had to go through a lot in his life in the name of religion. But quite a bit of that was simply blamed on religion because of superstition.

I mean, people were calling shadows resulting from moon light hitting a tree or something, spirits and referring to the bible on how to deal with it.
I dont think it was so much to do with Christian nature as it did to do with human nature.

I can agree with that, but when Christianity was introduced any contradicting teaching (contradicting Catholic tradition, not necessarily the bible) was considered heresy. We can only speculate where the western world had been if the cultures, philosophy and knowledge of the ancient world around the Mediterranean had remained the dominant one instead of being oppressed by religions like Islam and Christianity.

Of course my answers are standard, I'm mostly correction a series of common misconceptions of scientific principles. Seriously, if people want to argue against science, they should actually look a bit into what they are claiming science and atheism is instead of pulling out religious cliches and misguided ideas.

I can recommend a few good books regarding many of the topics she mentioned. As for my own opinions about religion and the validity of it, they are my opinions and observations and not facts.

I also get a bit annoyed when it is claimed that not believing in god makes you selfish, unethical and without values. In many areas it is quite the opposite, and in total, religion or no religion makes little difference in that matter.

Angel :) You have a excellent mind and I actually agree with what you have said/posted above, but I am not going to allow that to slow me down :) Ok?

I grew up listening to my mother saying all the things about God and Christians that all the none believers are posting. So far she hasn't missed a one.

When I went to church (and I have been to alot of churches) she was right about the Christians. :) At least most of them. Angel, I was born to love God and my love for God has nothing to do with religion or science or this world of things. It is just something that has always been apart of me. Actually what we learn in religion and science and this world of things just gets in the way. Good luck trying to explain that to people :)

Angel I love a good debate, I don't actually care which side I am on, I can argue either side equally well. It is all just words. I love words and I love the intellectual excercise. And the reality that I share with God is totally beyond words and I couldn't explain it with words even if I wanted to.

Angel I love your mind!

Love!

tuck

I can agree with that, but when Christianity was introduced any contradicting teaching (contradicting Catholic tradition, not necessarily the bible) was considered heresy. We can only speculate where the western world had been if the cultures, philosophy and knowledge of the ancient world around the Mediterranean had remained the dominant one instead of being oppressed by religions like Islam and Christianity.

Thats a tuff question, even for scholars. You have to think, Rome was Christian when it fell and the Barbarians who were around when it fell weren't Christians until after Rome was gone. Technically they weren't.
We can also take examples from China and Japan. Some of their tech was way ahead of its time and still they were stalled when it came to advancing anything other then a flower mill.

I personally think, because times were so turbulent any innovation was rare, regardless of where you were on the planet.

Then again, the first near collapse of Rome wasn't run by Christians but it was reunited under them in the hopes that it would be as powerful as it once was.
I'd like to think they were considering the advances Romans made to be part of that power.

I have no problem with religions as life philosophies. The problem arise when religion intrude on areas where it is bound to fail. Science is about studying facts and data and understanding the world while trying not to be held back by dogma and tradition. The approach to science and religion are opposites.

I myself prefer non religious philosophy as religion state too many absolutes with no evidence to even suggest it is so. Philosophy is more open to interpretation and expansion and thought. For example we do not know what happens after death. Science can't prove either way, but neither can religion. Yet religion is the one that claims absolute knowledge on this. That is pretty preposterous in my opinion.

Also debating these topics are usually futile. A dogmatic religious person will usually have a set of scientific "facts" that they cling to to justify their views. No matter how many times you correct them or link information, they will just ignore it and restate what they said. SMW has already done that a few times.

There is a quote I like:
"If rational argument worked on religious people, there would be no religious people."

Anyway, there are a good website out there who have been answering questions from religious people for over a decade, it is a brilliant site that I have read a lot in the past. That site is TalkOrigins.org

Here is a link to their FAQ: http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/faqs-qa.html

I think it's more sad to contemplate all the wasted effort people will have put into worshiping the non-existent.

Vilepagan Sir, It turns out that God sleeps unless one personally wakes Him up. If one does not personally wake Him up, then He does not exist and never will. I don't know why it works that way, but that is the way that it works. Only those that have personally woke Him up can know Him.

Love!

tuck

Vilepagan Sir, It turns out that God sleeps unless one personally wakes Him up. If one does not personally wake Him up, then He does not exist and never will. I don't know why it works that way, but that is the way that it works. Only those that have personally woke Him up can know Him.

Love!

tuck

He never woke up when I wasted my teenage years calling for him...

He never woke up when I wasted my teenage years calling for him...

Angel, that is exactly what my mother said. When my mother was in Jr. High and asked our asshole Father God to save her mother, her mother died. Her mother had pneumonia and was allergic to penicillin. Grandma's doc gave Grandma a shot of penicillen anyway and Grandma died. When it comes to god/God, my mother would love you and tell you that you are on the right path.

Love you!

tuck

He never woke up when I wasted my teenage years calling for him...

Angel, your todays sig. says, "Girl Power". You are not angry at God, you are angry at guys :)

And Christians claim He/God is a guy.

Napster :) I don't think that Angel is going to like you :) !

Love you Angel! You are now predictable. :) smile just for fun.

It is not about God :) "You just don't like men!" :)

Love you!

tuck

I suggest you read up a bit on bigbang theory, there is no nanosecond before bigbang. As for the other points, see the links in my previous post.

Ya Foolsworth :) Check that stuff out :)

FoolsWorth, man to man :) I personally don't like you. But I am not angry.

And you personally are going to explain to Angel why "men" are idiots :) I love that part! Life is too real :) !

tuck

Well, it is suggested, and was interpreted that way.
You know, world corners and the end of the world and all that.
Also the geocentric universe is a biblical concept, and was strongly enforced by the catholic church to the point Galileo had to renounce his life's work.

I love Alba :) ! She is totally too cool! So was Zena!

Napster :) you really should be apart of what is happening here :) us guys really need to be represented!!!!!!!! EEK!

tuck

I suggest you read up a bit on bigbang theory, there is no nanosecond before bigbang. As for the other points, see the links in my previous post.

So,you'd like to bee the one to go on record as saying
Big Bang was virtually the beginning of time.
In utter woyds,there was WHAT before Big Bang.?

Yup, until science told them religion was wrong. The idea the earth was flat was upheld by religion as the bible said it was so. Ancient cultures before this knew it wasn't so.

Why does science have to create life? It took billions of years the first time...
That is just a preposterous demand. Let me flip the coin and challenge you to show me any life created by a supernatural being.

I don't make up my own explanations, I read.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/abioprob/spontaneous-generation.html
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/abioprob/originoflife.html

That statement does in no validate their claims. Do you also believe Thor creates lightening by hitting his hammer on the mountains while riding his carriage across the sky with his 8 legged horse? Cause the ancestors believed that too...

Religion don't do any harm? You GOT to be kidding. Anyway, the basic morality predates any religion. All research into the matter shows that. Society structure and basic laws were not invented by Moses.



Most famous men through history did not mix their religious upbringing with their work, something many of them had to suffer greatly for by the hands of the fundamentalists.



Science can't make it because we are just simple humans, God can't make it cause he doesn't exist, the flower is an expression of the beauty of the universe in all its magnificent detail.

Anyway, you seem to have this screwed idea that if humans can't make something, then god must have done it. That is about the most irrational demand I have ever heard put on science. Religion has never been able to show any proof of the supernatural, thus there is no reason to have to believe in it unless you choose to do so based on faith and not rational thought.

Tell me, why did you stop believing in Santa or the Tooth Fairy? Why do you not believe in the religions of your ancient ancestors? Why can't Buddhism be correct? Or other Asian philosophies? When a dog dies, a parent may tell the child it has gone to a farm in the countryside, as grown ups we smile at this and realize its just something they say to comfort children. So why do so many grown up people believe the exact same story when a person dies? Is it so hard to see that these stories are made up for the exact same reason?

The main difference between you and me is that you believe what you read explains why there is no God... and I believe we're surrounded by miracles everyday and all of those miracles are described in the Bible. I don't believe everything in the Bible is relevant today, but its basic lessons are timeless.

I also believe that you are confusing denominations with the word religion. Religion means believing in a higher power. I happen to have respect for ALL religions which practice compassion and reverence. I know nothing more about God than anyone else does and believe everyone is entitled to worship whatever form they think "God" takes. If you believe SCIENCE is the higher power, then by all means, worship science.

But I don't understand why you seem so hellbent on CHOOSING one side or the other. Most scientists don't. In fact, most intelligent people are the first to admit mankind doesn't have all the answers... and probably never will. Theories are interesting, but the BIG BANG is no more provable than whether or not Jesus actually turned water into wine. Until science can create life, at least in my mind, science is not as powerful as God and should not be worshipped as if it is a god.

I would gladly agree to disagree on this subject, but first you have to stop talking to me as if you think I have a screw loose simply because I choose to believe what 80% of the world's population believes. Ever stop to think you may be the one who's out of the loop of understanding here and maybe you shouldn't believe everything you read on the internet?

;)
SMW

The main difference between you and me is that you believe what you read explains why there is no God... and I believe we're surrounded by miracles everyday and all of those miracles are described in the Bible. I don't believe everything in the Bible is relevant today, but its basic lessons are timeless.

I also believe that you are confusing denominations with the word religion. Religion means believing in a higher power. I happen to have respect for ALL religions which practice compassion and reverence. I know nothing more about God than anyone else does and believe everyone is entitled to worship whatever form they think "God" takes. If you believe SCIENCE is the higher power, then by all means, worship science.

But I don't understand why you seem so hellbent on CHOOSING one side or the other. Most scientists don't. In fact, most intelligent people are the first to admit mankind doesn't have all the answers... and probably never will. Theories are interesting, but the BIG BANG is no more provable than whether or not Jesus actually turned water into wine. Until science can create life, at least in my mind, science is not as powerful as God and should not be worshipped as if it is a god.

I would gladly agree to disagree on this subject, but first you have to stop talking to me as if you think I have a screw loose simply because I choose to believe what 80% of the world's population believes. Ever stop to think you may be the one who's out of the loop of understanding here and maybe you shouldn't believe everything you read on the internet?

;)
SMW

*******************************

And all this time I thought fer sure,Totally,The Main Difference
between yuz two was somethin as simple as a Wonder Bra.


Bwa Haa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha !

So,you'd like to bee the one to go on record as saying
Big Bang was virtually the beginning of time.
In utter woyds,there was WHAT before Big Bang.?


A hundred years ago our feeble little minds could not even imagine a Big Bang. It is just a matter of time when we will sort out what was before the big bang.

A hundred years ago our feeble little minds could not even imagine a Big Bang. It is just a matter of time when we will sort out what was before the big bang.

Two thousand years ago, mankind knew EXACTLY what happened before, during and after the so-called 'big bang'. I'd say your statement proves we're actually regressing instead of getting smarter! Someday, our little feeble minds will probably regress ourselves right into oblivion!

JMHO, mind you. Please feel free to offer proof I'm wrong.

;)
SMW

Two thousand years ago, mankind knew EXACTLY what happened before, during and after the so-called 'big bang'. I'd say your statement proves we're actually regressing instead of getting smarter! Someday, our little feeble minds will probably regress ourselves right into oblivion!

JMHO, mind you. Please feel free to offer proof I'm wrong.

;)
SMW

You know that is confusing, all the innovation Rome came up with and a thousand years later people are worried about witches.

Angel, your todays sig. says, "Girl Power". You are not angry at God, you are angry at guys :)

And Christians claim He/God is a guy.

Napster :) I don't think that Angel is going to like you :) !

Love you Angel! You are now predictable. :) smile just for fun.

It is not about God :) "You just don't like men!" :)

Love you!

tuck

lol
Well, I'm not angry at anyone, specially not god. There is no god to be angry at...

Oh, and the signature doesn't mean much more than that she is a cool girl that has the same name as me :)

So,you'd like to bee the one to go on record as saying
Big Bang was virtually the beginning of time.
In utter woyds,there was WHAT before Big Bang.?

I just suggested you read up on what bigbang theory is about before bashing it.
Common sense really...

*******************************

And all this time I thought fer sure,Totally,The Main Difference
between yuz two was somethin as simple as a Wonder Bra.

Bwa Haa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha !

Well, at least my bra didn't suddenly appear as an act of God :)

The main difference between you and me is that you believe what you read explains why there is no God... and I believe we're surrounded by miracles everyday and all of those miracles are described in the Bible. I don't believe everything in the Bible is relevant today, but its basic lessons are timeless.

No, you get me wrong there, I haven't said much about my philosophical views at all. I'm just refuting the claim that science is wrong and it was all magic.

I also believe that you are confusing denominations with the word religion. Religion means believing in a higher power. I happen to have respect for ALL religions which practice compassion and reverence. I know nothing more about God than anyone else does and believe everyone is entitled to worship whatever form they think "God" takes. If you believe SCIENCE is the higher power, then by all means, worship science.

I'm not confusing denominations and religion, from my point of view they are all the same. (Talking monotheistic religions here). Neither do I view science as a higher power, I \have clearly stated I don't think there is any higher power. Science is just knowledge and understanding. Nothing more.

But I don't understand why you seem so hellbent on CHOOSING one side or the other. Most scientists don't. In fact, most intelligent people are the first to admit mankind doesn't have all the answers... and probably never will. Theories are interesting, but the BIG BANG is no more provable than whether or not Jesus actually turned water into wine. Until science can create life, at least in my mind, science is not as powerful as God and should not be worshipped as if it is a god.

I have already stated that we don't have the answers. I'm not resiting my entire philosophy and world view here, just defending science against ridiculous claims. If you need science to create life to be true, does that mean you don't believe in science? What about your microwave oven then? You believe in that? That was pretty nift science at its time, and still is.

I would gladly agree to disagree on this subject, but first you have to stop talking to me as if you think I have a screw loose simply because I choose to believe what 80% of the world's population believes. Ever stop to think you may be the one who's out of the loop of understanding here and maybe you shouldn't believe everything you read on the internet?

Large parts of the world population is also sexist, racist and such, that doesn't make it right. Also a large part of the world belong to religions who are fundamentally different than the monotheistic ones.

Neither do I believe anything I read, but contrary to many I DO read. Most people approach science with a predetermined mindset and never really bother to learn about the subject they debate. That is why discussion like these are futile really.

You know that is confusing, all the innovation Rome came up with and a thousand years later people are worried about witches.
nobody wants to be turned into a newt-they might not get better:lolhit:

I'm just refuting the claim that science is wrong and it was all magic.
one man's magic is another man's engineering. how long into our past would lighting a match be looked at as wizardry?

one man's magic is another man's engineering. how long into our past would lighting a match be looked at as wizardry?

That is exactly my point. Almost everything we take for granted today would have gotten you burned as a witch a 1000 years ago. It is quite silly to think that the things we don't understand now will never be understood and explained. Labeling things we don't understand as magic should have been something we as a race had outgrown by now.

Angelina... I hadn't read your one-liner about 'wasting your teenage years' seeking God's help before I responded to your last post. Now that I know where you're coming from, you're right... any attempt at discussing the issues is futile. You're mad that you once believed in God and you feel he let you down. Payback is trying to convince others he doesn't exist.

Doesn't make you any more right, but certainly makes your stance alot more understandable. I've gone thru my own bouts of questioning God's existence in my life. It wasn't until my mother died and someplace deep in the depths of all the grief when I suddenly felt her with me, that my belief in God's power came rushing back to me. There's nothing anyone can say to me now that will convince me otherwise. I asked them to play Amazing Grace at her funeral and when they did, I really listened to the words for the very first time. To this day, I can't hear that song without tearing up at the amazing power of believing in God.

I only hope you experience a similar reacceptance of God in your lifetime... and hopefully without the trauma associated with losing someone you love.

Peace, g/f.

:)
SMW

Angelina... I hadn't read your one-liner about 'wasting your teenage years' seeking God's help before I responded to your last post. Now that I know where you're coming from, you're right... any attempt at discussing the issues is futile. You're mad that you once believed in God and you feel he let you down. Payback is trying to convince others he doesn't exist.

Why do you jump to the conclusion that I am angry? You don't know me at all. I feel no anger at all, I'm glad I took the time to figure it out and sure, I wasted a lot of time, but at the end of the day its a part of my life experience. I am not a person who dwell on the past, and I never stay mad at things or people.

Doesn't make you any more right, but certainly makes your stance alot more understandable. I've gone thru my own bouts of questioning God's existence in my life. It wasn't until my mother died and someplace deep in the depths of all the grief... I suddenly felt her with me, that my belief in God's power came rushing back to me. There's nothing anyone can say to me now that will convince me otherwise. I asked them to play Amazing Grace at her funeral and when they did, I really listened to the words for the very first time. To this day, I can't hear that song without tearing up at the amazing power of believing in God.

Religion is closely linked with emotions, and we all know how emotions affect our minds. As I already have said, the problem is not what people believe in, the problem is when facts and knowledge is overruled by unfounded belief. Like when Christians intrude on science with creationism.

I only hope you experience a similar reacceptance of God in your lifetime... and hopefully without the trauma associated with losing someone you love.

I have lost several loved ones, and I take comfort in appreciating their memory, religion is just like the "your dog went to a happy farm in the country" story, I'd rather deal with the grief without sorting to illusions about an afterlife we cannot know anything about. I do not claim I know what happens after we die, I just refuse to believe the religious claim as they have no more real knowledge about the subject than science. I much prefer finding strength in myself and real people than some god who no one have seen.

That is exactly my point. Almost everything we take for granted today would have gotten you burned as a witch a 1000 years ago. It is quite silly to think that the things we don't understand now will never be understood and explained. Labeling things we don't understand as magic should have been something we as a race had outgrown by now.

Are you saying, that eventually, science will be able to say one way or the other what does happen when we die?

Other then the obvious that is.
You know, decay and rot.

Two thousand years ago, mankind knew EXACTLY what happened before, during and after the so-called 'big bang'. I'd say your statement proves we're actually regressing instead of getting smarter! Someday, our little feeble minds will probably regress ourselves right into oblivion!

JMHO, mind you. Please feel free to offer proof I'm wrong.

;)
SMW

<<< we're actually regressing instead of getting smarter! Someday, our little feeble minds will probably regress ourselves right into oblivion! >>>


Speak for yersefl, oh un-wise one

:upyours:

Oh, I see it's already happening.

Huggies to you, my dear lil simpleton

:smile2:

nobody wants to be turned into a newt-they might not get better:lolhit:

I hate when that happens!

Are you saying, that eventually, science will be able to say one way or the other what does happen when we die?

Other then the obvious that is.
You know, decay and rot.

That is the thing, we have no way of knowing what is within the grasp of science. It is what makes it so fun.

But as a rule, science cannot as we know it, prove anything that cannot be tested. So I would guess no. We can make hypotheses based on things we do know, but that is all. If we one day figure out how the brain works, we may get closer to an answer to that question.

That is the thing, we have no way of knowing what is within the grasp of science. It is what makes it so fun.

But as a rule, science cannot as we know it, prove anything that cannot be tested. So I would guess no. We can make hypotheses based on things we do know, but that is all. If we one day figure out how the brain works, we may get closer to an answer to that question.

I dont think anyone on these boards "besides tucker" wants us to figure out how the brain works more then I do.
If the knowledge is used right, so much of our problems on this world will be solved. Just for the record, by "used right" I dont mean brain washing.

O.K. just for debate sake. No other reason. Take any unforeseen thing and say it happens to you. Something unexplainable. Like, ferries flew up your nose or leprechauns asked for a lap dance, unicorns were raiding your fridge for apples or my personal favorite, because its true with me, God invaded your body.
Just for debate sake, one or more of the above happened and there is no denying it. To say it didn't happen would be contrary to reality.

How would you deal with it?

O.K. just for debate sake. No other reason. Take any unforeseen thing and say it happens to you. Something unexplainable. Like, ferries flew up your nose or leprechauns asked for a lap dance, unicorns were raiding your fridge for apples or my personal favorite, because its true with me, God invaded your body.
Just for debate sake, one or more of the above happened and there is no denying it. To say it didn't happen would be contrary to reality.

How would you deal with it?

No denying means to me conclusive evidence (not something that could be explained by a mental illusion or anything psychological), and it would have to be repeatable. Then it would qualify as scientific evidence, and I would accept it as that.

Keep in mind I have spent many years witnessing alleged religious miracles and spiritual acts. I have developed a skepticism to people's unproven claims. Neither have I ever seen anything supernatural actually happen.

No denying means to me conclusive evidence (not something that could be explained by a mental illusion or anything psychological), and it would have to be repeatable. Then it would qualify as scientific evidence, and I would accept it as that.

Keep in mind I have spent many years witnessing alleged religious miracles and spiritual acts. I have developed a skepticism to people's unproven claims. Neither have I ever seen anything supernatural actually happen.

Just because no one was around to see it but you, doesn't mean it didn't happen. The above sounds more like a cop out then an explanation.

More like the. If a tree falls in the woods story then anything else.

Are you saying you cant trust your own senses?

Just because no one was around to see it but you, doesn't mean it didn't happen. The above sounds more like a cop out then an explanation.

More like the. If a tree falls in the woods story then anything else.

Are you saying you cant trust your own senses?

You definitely can't trust your own senses in all situations. Our senses are limited to the needs we evolved into. Nothing funky about it really, makes perfect sense.

It was not a cop out tho, I just wouldn't jump to a conclusion that was contrary to what my so far, 30 years of experience, has showed me.

Vilepagan Sir :) just for the record, the average Christian considers both you and I of Satan :) and we "Both" are going to "HELL". Ok? :)

I expect that you and I will end up in the same place (God or no God) and at least there will be sombody there that I know :)

Love you!

tuck

<<< we're actually regressing instead of getting smarter! Someday, our little feeble minds will probably regress ourselves right into oblivion! >>>


Speak for yersefl, oh un-wise one

:upyours:

Oh, I see it's already happening.

Huggies to you, my dear lil simpleton

:smile2:

Whoa Scummy :) I told you that you would fit nicely into this messageboard :)

Scummy needs her "Huggies" changed :) !

Love you!

tuck

You are our resident kick around Christian :) I love it :)

SMW we could go to that Christian messageboard that has 1800 people on it at any time day or night and invite them to visit All Forums.net. There are bound to be a couple of them that would like to come over and visit with us :)

Personally I would rather not do that :) they would probably chase me off this messageboard first :) And I like being here!

Love you!

tuck

[QUOTE=tucker58]Vilepagan Sir :) just for the record, the average Christian considers both you and I of Satan :) and we "Both" are going to "HELL". Ok? :)

I expect that you and I will end up in the same place (God or no God) and at least there will be sombody there that I know :)

Not true at all little numbSkull.And by golly gosh yer thick.
I admire Jean Paul Sarte and his Existentialism.
He and Simone De Beauvoir were very classy Agnostics.
You haven't a clue as to what yer spouting.
Yer entirely misplaced due to mauvaise foi.
As to Sarte's Atheism," I do not feel that I am the product of chance,
a speck of dust in the Universe,but someone who was expected,
prepared,prefigured.In short,a being whom only a Creator could put
here;and this idea of a creating hand refers to God. "

[QUOTE=tucker58]Vilepagan Sir :) just for the record, the average Christian considers both you and I of Satan :) and we "Both" are going to "HELL". Ok? :)

I expect that you and I will end up in the same place (God or no God) and at least there will be sombody there that I know :)

Not true at all little numbSkull.And by golly gosh yer thick.
I admire Jean Paul Sarte and his Existentialism.
He and Simone De Beauvoir were very classy Agnostics.
You haven't a clue as to what yer spouting.
Yer entirely misplaced due to mauvaise foi.
As to Sarte's Atheism," I do not feel that I am the product of chance,
a speck of dust in the Universe,but someone who was expected,
prepared,prefigured.In short,a being whom only a Creator could put
here;and this idea of a creating hand refers to God. "

The Fool is Worth alot of post credits :) God but I love you "old son" :) !

FoolsWorth my friend :) ,nothing is real until it is real. Everything else is supposition. Welcome to the "speck of dust in the Universe", my really important "one".

Love you!

tuck :)