I don't know what it is called or if it is anything different for other religions but what are your views on this? We don't decide what our childrens professions so how can people justify making that decision for a child when they are not old enough to make such an important decision themselves? Do parents really have the right to do this?

well, baptism is really symbolic, but i can defintiely see what you mean by bringing this up. for example, i have a jewish freind who was baptised, but the jewish religion is what she believes so jewish she is.
i was raised in a non-religious household, and i am an atheist. my parents never really brought up religion at all, so it's not like they told me that there was no god so that's what i believe. if i had grown up a christian, jew, buddhist, etc, my parent's wouldn't have had a problem with it.
of course it would be nice if all parents could be open-minded enough to leave their children to decide their opinions for themselves, but it is not so.

As parents, yes, they have the right to have their child baptised. True, once done, it cannot be undone, but the child is free to choose a different faith, or none, once they have left the parental home. The parents bring the child into the world, and are responsible for the care & well being of that child until a certain age is attained. Morals, ethics, & religious beliefs are taught right along with proper table manners, rules for acceptable behavior & respect for elders. When the parents (or caretakers) do not do this, it is called neglect.

Yes i understand that a parent is responsible for the well being of a child. Your child can be brought up to respect their elders (people in general) have good morals without being baptised. As parents you are responsible to make sure your child is looked after, fed, clothed, has a roof over their head, is taught right from wrong, and given love and affection. A child does not need to be baptised in order to be raised right and not being baptised surely does not mean your child is neglected. Children need to be taught they have choices in life especially with life altering decisions.

I feel that parents have the rights to baptize their children and show them the teachings of their religions. If they disagree, then let them decide the pathway that is best for them. Once the children are old enough, they'll be able to decide what's right for themselves.

It's not like getting baptized causes permanent physical changes or something. Like say circumcision.

It's worth noting that a lot of the really conservative Christian religions don't baptize followers until their old enough to make the decision for themselves.

For catholics, people who die whitout having been baptised go to hell. So if one is really a believer, he should "save" his kids as soon as possible.

Are children not "pure" though? If i am not mistaken they would not go to hell. That is utterly obsured

Roman Catholic teaching maintains that each individual is born & their soul scarred with Original Sin (Adam & Eve & the apple) and that children should be baptized right away so they may start with a clean slate. Many other religious orders have similar beliefs & practices. With there being more RC's than any other christian religions, that means a whole lot of infants are being baptized annually without their consent. Further, according to the RC's, children are not pure enough to go straight to heaven should they die without the benefit of baptism (actually known as the Sacrement of Baptism) they go to "limbo". Very strange, I realize, but that's what they teach.

I have a hard time buying into a god that would send babies to hell before they were baptized.

unbelievable :rolleyes:

So parents have their child baptised so early out of a fear their child could die and go to hell if they don't? That is a pretty good brainwashing tactic if you ask me. I do not believe in god obviously but for those who do, does that not seem a little sick and twisted?

Same old fire & brimstone, just a different tune.
I had the "pleasure" of attending Catholic schools through the 8th grade, and then attending a public high school. That was a very long time ago. The old teachings stick with me, although it's been a few decades since I've bothered attending any services.

The Roman Catholics are a strange bunch - right up there with the moonies and jehova Witnesses - just more members.

Baptise a child or they go to hell - ok, what a load of backward thinking baloney.

My first child is due to be born in March'04 and we have absolutely no intention of getting the baby baptised, If they want to align themselves with a religious faith later - then that will be up to them.

if god thinks that even unbaptised INFANTS are not pure enough to go to heaven when they die, then what kind of god is that? or what kind of people would think that god is like that? it's a bit suspicious if you ask me....actually, i think that any god who would sent all his/her/its children to hell to burn for all eternity isnt' exactly a god worth believing in.

no wonder i turned out to be an atheist.

The RC's do not teach that the unbaptized child goes to hell, it goes to "limbo", or if you will heaven "lite"- same script, just not in 256 colors.

Originally posted by es347fan
The RC's do not teach that the unbaptized child goes to hell, it goes to "limbo", or if you will heaven "lite"- same script, just not in 256 colors.
256 colors? That sounds like purgatory to me. Hell would be in monochrome or at best 16 colors, but a 256 color heaven would...suck. I've gotten quite used to my millions of colors/32-bit thank you very much! :D

At least you get the point

ok, heh, everyone can ignore me now as i, uh, go hide under my chair now....

hope it's a comfortable chair that you're lurking under

Thanks Es for clearing up the child hell thing, I was also born into a strict Catholic home. I am not Catholic anymore yes I was Bapted, but it means nothing to me. A guy pooring water over my head is not going to make a difference of whether I go anywhere. A priest is only human he can not save anyones soul only the person themselfs could do that. Of course I don't believe in hell, it doesn't make sense. A God creates EVERYTHING, the God has ALL power why would he/she/it keep something that dislikes him/her/it around? Hell, the devil, demons, etc.. where all created by the Christians before this there was no hell. The Christians came along and needed power so they invent a scary place with a scary being, now everyone is to afraid not to be Christian. I am not putting Christians down and I mean no disrespect, I am just passing some history along.

Seems like a wonderful recruitment methodolgy - bring them in as members straight from the womb or they go to a limbo between heaven and hell. What a great way to swell the ranks with mumbo-jumbo fear leaden crapola.

I guess it doesn't matter that the priest 5 mins before the baptism was in bed with a naked 12 year old boy.

Drew, it's probably more like 15-20 min, takes a long time to put all those vestments on.
Yeah, as far as cradle to grave recrutiment drives, I would venture a guess that only the Jews have been doing it longer.

I think parents have a right to do this but really they should wait until the child is old enough to decide for themselves if they want to do this! (Why take that right from them just cause the parants want it done??)

Doesnt seem fair doing it right @ birth........

I think parents have a right to do this but really they should wait until the child is old enough to decide for themselves if they want to do this! (Why take that right from them just cause the parants want it done??)

Doesnt seem fair doing it right @ birth........

But at the same time, I thought you get baptized once you believe. A little baby does not believe anything so does it mean anything anyway at such a young age? Its almost meaningless. Another one of those backward traditions.

Yes perhaps..........

At my church we do baby dedications, where the parents dedicate that they will raise the child in our faith. Baptism comes later, when they are grown and decide on their own.

I have a hard time buying into a god that would send babies to hell before they were baptized.
there are different levels of hell. the grave, the pit and the lake of fire.

Yeah.. and you don't want to spend enternity in either.

Yeah.. and you don't want to spend enternity in either.
i'm going to live forever, so it's not my problem.:thumbs:

I don't know what it is called or if it is anything different for other religions but what are your views on this? We don't decide what our childrens professions so how can people justify making that decision for a child when they are not old enough to make such an important decision themselves? Do parents really have the right to do this?

What a pathetic example Of Liberalism.Really the pits.
An Infant has ABSOLUTELY No say so about anything in their
Life.Besides maybe cryin,ad nauseam.
The fact that a Mother & Father even care enough to have a
Young'n Baptised speaks volumns.It's what good parenting
demonstrates.To demonstrate neglect as parents in matters of
morals and religion,is the problem.
I don't for the life of me,see how demonstrating Moral backbone
in the life of a newborn and then a child is in any way harmfull.
The laws governing a bona fide religion,are never injurious.
It's only when some folk grow older and their predilictions being
piqued,that a religious upbringing may develop conflict.

What a pathetic example Of Liberalism.Really the pits.
An Infant has ABSOLUTELY No say so about anything in their
Life.Besides maybe cryin,ad nauseam.
The fact that a Mother & Father even care enough to have a
Young'n Baptised speaks volumns.It's what good parenting
demonstrates.To demonstrate neglect as parents in matters of
morals and religion,is the problem.
I don't for the life of me,see how demonstrating Moral backbone
in the life of a newborn and then a child is in any way harmfull.
The laws governing a bona fide religion,are never injurious.
It's only when some folk grow older and their predilictions being
piqued,that a religious upbringing may develop conflict.


The only thing I see is a kid got wet, and a lil bit of water don't save you from going to hell.

Real nice god there to condemn a baby because it didn't get wet while a young'n.

...and you do realize, this thread is 5 years old, don't ya?

The same crowd who could invent such tripe as "if you don't support abortion don't have one" criticizes a religion's tenets and practices even though they are totally unaffected by them.

Funny.

The same crowd who could invent such tripe as "if you don't support abortion don't have one" criticizes a religion's tenets and practices even though they are totally unaffected by them.

Funny.
What's funnier is that I don't care if someone has an abortion, and I don't care if someone tosses some water on their baby. You're trying to establish a link between two unrelated positions.