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LiquidFork
11-03-2007, 04:27 PM
Thousands return to safer Iraqi capital By STEVEN R. HURST, Associated Press Writer2 hours, 45 minutes ago


In a dramatic turnaround, more than 3,000 Iraqi families driven out of their Baghdad neighborhoods have returned to their homes in the past three months as sectarian violence has dropped, the government said Saturday.
Saad al-Azawi, his wife and four children are among them. They fled to Syria six months ago, leaving behind what had become one of the capital's more dangerous districts — west Baghdad's largely Sunni Khadra region.
The family had been living inside a vicious and bloody turf battle between al-Qaida in Iraq and Mahdi Army militiamen. But Azawi said things began changing, becoming more peaceful, in August when radical anti-American Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr ordered his Mahdi Army fighters to stand down nationwide.
About the same time, the Khadra neighborhood Awakening Council rose up against brutal al-Qaida control — the imposition of its austere interpretation of Islam, along with the murder and torture of those who would not comply.
The uprising originated in Iraq's west and flowed into the capital. Earlier this year, the Sunni tribes and clans in the vast Anbar province began their own revolt and have successfully rid the largely desert region of al-Qaida control.
At one point the terrorist group virtually controlled Anbar, often with the complicity of the vast Sunni majority who welcomed the outsiders in their fight against American forces.
But, U.S. officials say, al-Qaida overplayed its hand with Iraq's Sunnis, who practice a moderate version of Islam. American forces were quick to capitalize on the upheaval, welcoming former Sunni enemies as colleagues in securing what was once the most dangerous region of the country.
And as 30,000 additional U.S. forces arrived for the crackdown in Baghdad and central Iraq, the American commander, Gen. David Petraeus, began stationing many of them in neighborhood outposts. The mission was not only to take back control but to foster neighborhood groups like the one in Khadra to shake off al-Qaida's grip.
The 40-year-old al-Azawi, who has gone back to work managing a car service, said relatives and friends persuaded him to bring his family home.
"Six months ago, I wouldn't dare be outside, not even to stand near the garden gate by the street. Killings had become routine. I stopped going to work, I was so afraid," he said, chatting with friends on a street in the neighborhood.
When he and his family joined the flood of Iraqi refugees to Syria the streets were empty by early afternoon, when all shops were tightly shuttered. Now the stores stay open until 10 p.m. and the U.S. military working with the neighborhood council is handing out $2,000 grants to shop owners who had closed their business. The money goes to those who agree to reopen or first-time businessmen.
Al-Azawi said he's trying to get one of the grants to open a poultry and egg shop that his brother would run.
"In Khadra, about 15 families have returned from Syria. I've called friends and family still there and told them it's safe to come home," he said.
Sattar Nawrous, a spokesman for the Ministry of Displacement and Migration, said the al-Azawi family was among 3,100 that have returned to their homes in Baghdad in the past 90 days.
"In the past three months, the ministry did not register any forced displacement in the whole of Iraq," said Nawrous, who is a Kurd.
The claim could not be independently verified, but, if true, it would represent a dramatic end to the sectarian cleansing that has shredded the fabric of Baghdad's once mixed society.
The head of the ministry is Abdul-Samad Rahman, a Shiite appointed to his job by Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, who is accused of promoting the Shiite cause to the detriment of Sunnis. Under Saddam Hussein, the Sunni minority ruled and heavily oppressed many in the Shiite majority.

Part of the inflow can be attributed to stiffening of visa and residency procedures for Iraqis by the Syrian government.
Mahmoud al-Zubaidi, who runs the Iraqi Airways office in Damascus, the Syrian capital, the flow of Iraqis has almost reversed.
What were once full flights arriving from Baghdad now touch down virtually empty, he told Al-Sabah, the government funded Iraqi daily newspaper. Now the flights are leaving Damascus with more passengers but the volume of travel is off considerably.
On average, 56 Iraqis — civilians and security forces — have died each day so far in this very bloody year. Last month, however, the toll fell to just under 30 Iraqis killed daily in sectarian violence.
More than four months after U.S. forces completed a 30,000-strong force buildup, the death toll for both Iraqis and Americans has fallen dramatically for two months running.
Across Iraq Saturday, 18 people were killed or found dead in sectarian violence, well below the year's daily average.
___ AP correspondent Sameer N. Yacoub contributed to this report.


By STEVEN R. HURST, Associated Press Writer2 hours, 45 minutes ago



In a dramatic turnaround, more than 3,000 Iraqi families driven out of their Baghdad neighborhoods have returned to their homes in the past three months as sectarian violence has dropped, the government said Saturday.
Saad al-Azawi, his wife and four children are among them. They fled to Syria six months ago, leaving behind what had become one of the capital's more dangerous districts — west Baghdad's largely Sunni Khadra region.

The family had been living inside a vicious and bloody turf battle between al-Qaida in Iraq and Mahdi Army militiamen. But Azawi said things began changing, becoming more peaceful, in August when radical anti-American Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr ordered his Mahdi Army fighters to stand down nationwide.

About the same time, the Khadra neighborhood Awakening Council rose up against brutal al-Qaida control — the imposition of its austere interpretation of Islam, along with the murder and torture of those who would not comply.

The uprising originated in Iraq's west and flowed into the capital. Earlier this year, the Sunni tribes and clans in the vast Anbar province began their own revolt and have successfully rid the largely desert region of al-Qaida control.

At one point the terrorist group virtually controlled Anbar, often with the complicity of the vast Sunni majority who welcomed the outsiders in their fight against American forces.

But, U.S. officials say, al-Qaida overplayed its hand with Iraq's Sunnis,
who practice a moderate version of Islam. American forces were quick to capitalize on the upheaval, welcoming former Sunni enemies as colleagues in securing what was once the most dangerous region of the country.
And as 30,000 additional U.S. forces arrived for the crackdown in Baghdad and central Iraq, the American commander, Gen. David Petraeus, began stationing many of them in neighborhood outposts. The mission was not only to take back control but to foster neighborhood groups like the one in Khadra to shake off al-Qaida's grip.

The 40-year-old al-Azawi, who has gone back to work managing a car service, said relatives and friends persuaded him to bring his family home.
"Six months ago, I wouldn't dare be outside, not even to stand near the garden gate by the street. Killings had become routine. I stopped going to work, I was so afraid," he said, chatting with friends on a street in the neighborhood.

When he and his family joined the flood of Iraqi refugees to Syria the streets were empty by early afternoon, when all shops were tightly shuttered. Now the stores stay open until 10 p.m. and the U.S. military working with the neighborhood council is handing out $2,000 grants to shop owners who had closed their business. The money goes to those who agree to reopen or first-time businessmen.

Al-Azawi said he's trying to get one of the grants to open a poultry and egg shop that his brother would run.
"In Khadra, about 15 families have returned from Syria. I've called friends and family still there and told them it's safe to come home," he said.
Sattar Nawrous, a spokesman for the Ministry of Displacement and Migration, said the al-Azawi family was among 3,100 that have returned to their homes in Baghdad in the past 90 days.
"In the past three months, the ministry did not register any forced displacement in the whole of Iraq," said Nawrous, who is a Kurd.

The claim could not be independently verified, but, if true, it would represent a dramatic end to the sectarian cleansing that has shredded the fabric of Baghdad's once mixed society.
The head of the ministry is Abdul-Samad Rahman, a Shiite appointed to his job by Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, who is accused of promoting the Shiite cause to the detriment of Sunnis. Under Saddam Hussein, the Sunni minority ruled and heavily oppressed many in the Shiite majority.

Part of the inflow can be attributed to stiffening of visa and residency procedures for Iraqis by the Syrian government.
Mahmoud al-Zubaidi, who runs the Iraqi Airways office in Damascus, the Syrian capital, the flow of Iraqis has almost reversed.

What were once full flights arriving from Baghdad now touch down virtually empty, he told Al-Sabah, the government funded Iraqi daily newspaper. Now the flights are leaving Damascus with more passengers but the volume of travel is off considerably.
On average, 56 Iraqis — civilians and security forces — have died each day so far in this very bloody year. Last month, however, the toll fell to just under 30 Iraqis killed daily in sectarian violence.
More than four months after U.S. forces completed a 30,000-strong force buildup, the death toll for both Iraqis and Americans has fallen dramatically for two months running.

___ AP correspondent Sameer N. Yacoub contributed to this report.

sedan
11-03-2007, 04:53 PM
http://www.allforums.net/showthread.php?t=32469

ROFL! :)

Freethinker
11-03-2007, 09:51 PM
In a dramatic turnaround, more than 3,000 Iraqi families driven out of their Baghdad neighborhoods have returned to their homes in the past three months.

Wow!

That's really encouraging news!

From the estimates I have read, around 1.6 million people have been displaced in Iraq.

At this heady rate, it will be only 45 years or so before all displaced Iraqis-- the ones that have not been killed due to the war, that is-- can return to their homes safe and sound.

Hooray!

Garsh, I just love a happy ending.

:flowers::flowers::flowers::flowers: :flowers:

dharmabum
11-04-2007, 06:58 PM
From the estimates I have read, around 1.6 million people have been displaced in Iraq.



Actually from what I have read, there were over 1.8 million refugees from Iraq back in 2006 (http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,1966333,00.html) and today even the conservative corporate media in America admits there are well over 2 million. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18944557/)

The UN says there are quite a few more (http://www.refugeesinternational.org/content/article/detail/9679):

The UN estimates that over 4 million Iraqis have been displaced by violence in their country, the vast majority of which have fled since 2003. Over 2.3 million have vacated their homes for safer areas within Iraq, 1.5 million are now living in Syria, and over 1 million refugees inhabit Jordan, Iran, Egypt, Lebanon, Yemen, and Turkey. Most Iraqis are determined to be resettled to Europe or North America, and few consider return to Iraq an option. With no legal work options in their current host countries, Iraqis are already exploring the use of false documents to migrate to Western nations.

Foolsworth
11-04-2007, 07:49 PM
Oh ! so what I gleam is that Good News out of Baghdad Is actually
Bad news.Not because Bad news sells,but more to the point.
Liberals aren't good People.
They literally thrive on the negative.
Makes no difference if Iraq or the Economy or Homeland security.
It's just the very fact Republicanism can and IS Working that's
the end all cure all to make a Liberal Dimocrat cringe and shrink
Faster than Dracula sprinkled with a nice dose of Holy Water
from Renfield.
Cuz,even a Renfield knows right from wrong.
Liberals Don't.

dharmabum
11-04-2007, 08:03 PM
ROFL @ "Republicanism"!

Foolsworth
11-04-2007, 08:17 PM
ROFL @ "Republicanism"!

It isn't safe to say,but sheer reality to assume w/o Republicanism,
this Country as we now live it would have ceased to exist.
W/O a Reagan or a Bush 41,our landscape would be a pile
of festering Inflation,rampant inner city turmoil and Welfare
state extending into the Burbs and even uprooting city transit worse
than the Worst decade of Carjacking.
If Liberalism was sincerly put to a test,it would have to admit
Conservatism was IT'S saving Grace and Godsend.

dharmabum
11-04-2007, 08:34 PM
Only someone named "Fool" could say those things.

:thumbs:
db

Foolsworth
11-04-2007, 09:04 PM
Only someone named "Fool" could say those things.

:thumbs:
db

Pardon Moi.But don't you seem OVER-Rehearsed when making such
comments about yours truly.
Like if ,you were pressed and had to make an original
comment,you'd stumble,fumble and Flop.
Not unlike yer Beloved Dimocrats.
Time and again,try as they Mites.
I guess some Folk don't seek higher ground.Or purpose.

dharmabum
11-04-2007, 09:07 PM
I guess some Folk don't seek higher ground.Or purpose.

Yes, those people are called Republicans.

:thumbs:
db

Foolsworth
11-04-2007, 09:19 PM
Yes, those people are called Republicans.

:thumbs:
db

I feel yer trepidation and lack of cohesive certainty when confronting
me Posts.It only stands to reason.
You have little to offer up but pathetic Liberal Talking pts. and
heresay,balderdash,Tripe and guttersnipe.
Even when presented with authentic fact,you can't face up to
reason and lucidity.
Yer truly ... " Stuck on Stupid " !
What's America to do.?
This abject nouveau phenom of Discounting Fact in order to create
Fiction is wholly Unamerican and more Fascist than even a Mussolini
could conjure.

dharmabum
11-05-2007, 09:28 AM
Even when presented with authentic fact,you can't face up to
reason and lucidity.


A funnier line you have never typed, Fool.

Reason and lucidity are the two qualities that all your posts lack.

:thumbs:
db

dharmabum
11-05-2007, 09:31 AM
According to the latest information (http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,2188193,00.html) there are 4.5 million Iraqis who have been displaced because of the violence caused by our invasion and occupation of Iraq. That is 1/6th of the entire country of Iraq is now displaced.

Though 3,000 out of 4.5 million is minuscule, at least someone was able to return, even if it is only a few people.

Travh20
11-05-2007, 11:11 AM
3,000 families, not 3,000 people. For all we know 3,000 families could be half a million people.


LOL ok maybe not that maky but like 20,000

LiquidFork
11-06-2007, 12:58 PM
What we are all missing is this is not about all of a sudden over night the situation in Iraq has gotten better... This is an example of one single area that was at a time one of the worst,and in time was turned around.

I want the anti war people out to to explain to me one single war in history that was fight/won/and settled all in a short amount of time.

They will dismiss this progress and show bigger figures as a whole to prevent shining light that things ARE getting better over there piece by piece and that the violence IS starting to subside.

Maybe if this country had a united front going into this we would be alot further in progress. It is hard to fight an unseen enemy abroad when at home your fighting a portion of your own congress

dharmabum
11-06-2007, 04:35 PM
The fact that they couldn't get a united front for this illegal invasion and occupation says a lot about what a colossal mistake this was from the beginning.

.

Travh20
11-06-2007, 04:38 PM
We already know how you feel about it drama queen :rolleyes:

dharmabum
11-06-2007, 04:40 PM
It has nothing to do with "feelings" drama queen.

:thumbs:
db

Travh20
11-06-2007, 05:01 PM
When you say illegal that is how you feel about it. It was not "illegal". That is just another word thrown around without regard by your side in your wreckless attempt to get Bush.

dharmabum
11-06-2007, 05:07 PM
Wrong Trav. The word "illegal" is in reference to the law, which has nothing to do with my feelings.

Just because Bush has politicized the justice department to the point that nobody dares prosecute him doesn't mean it is not illegal. Other countries still recognize international law even if neocons in America don't, as Rummy learned last week when he had to flee France before being arrested.

:thumbs:
db

CarbonBasedLife
11-06-2007, 05:24 PM
Other countries still recognize international law even if neocons in America don't, as Rummy learned last week when he had to flee France before being arrested.

You got a link for that? Not that I don't believe you, it sounds interesting.

dharmabum
11-06-2007, 05:26 PM
You got a link for that? Not that I don't believe you, it sounds interesting.

Here you go. (http://www.alternet.org/story/66425/)

LiquidFork
11-06-2007, 06:06 PM
You got a link for that? Not that I don't believe you, it sounds interesting.

Would be interesting if it was true... this was a horrible misleading article to the events that happened.

He was in france and some protesters files some usless motions for an investigation to be opened up. Because of part of the rules, they had ot open it up while he was still there on french soil. It was opened and virtually dismissed in the same hour. He went to Germany AS SCHEDULED two and a half hours early. I admitt the bad press and such maybe was a factor for him leaving. But make no mistake the fench police were not closing in on him at the embassy,as the blackhawks swooped down and lifted him to saftey.

This article dharma posted is from an extremly biased newssource,and in calling it a news source I do have to use the term loosly...

This is from a site that has its main ad as a "down loadable countdown timer to the end of GWs term as president,and other gem of articles as Will MSNBC Fire Tucker Carlson and Hire Rosie O'Donnell? (http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/#67125) and Lynne Cheney Visits Country Club With Racist Reputation (http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/#67079) in 1898

I know I am not the moral compass for posting from valid news sources,but I post an article to start a discussion,and thats mainly it. Never do I post such biased opinions as a base for a defense or a retort... I give you credit for being creative Dharma,but you would of been better off C/P than have us actually see where you got it from

dharmabum
11-06-2007, 06:24 PM
Pardon me Liquid but I do not see you posting anything to refute the article I posted.

.

dharmabum
11-06-2007, 06:30 PM
Here: (http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=204741)

Former US Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld fled France today fearing arrest over charges of "ordering and authorizing" torture of detainees at both the American-run Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq and the US military's detainment facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, unconfirmed reports coming from Paris suggest.

US embassy officials whisked Rumsfeld away yesterday from a breakfast meeting in Paris organized by the Foreign Policy magazine after human rights groups filed a criminal complaint against the man who spearheaded President George W. Bush's "war on terror" for six years.

Under international law, authorities in France are obliged to open an investigation when a complaint is made while the alleged torturer is on French soil.

According to activists in France, who greeted Rumsfeld shouting "murderer" and "war criminal" at the breakfast meeting venue, US embassy officials remained tight-lipped about the former defense secretary's whereabouts citing "security reasons".

Anti-torture protesters in France believe that the defense secretary fled over the open border to Germany, where a war crimes case against Rumsfeld was dismissed by a federal court. But activist point out that under the Schengen agreement that ended border checkpoints across a large part of the European Union, French law enforcement agents are allowed to cross the border into Germany in pursuit of a fleeing fugitive.

"Rumsfeld must be feeling how Saddam Hussein felt when US forces were hunting him down," activist Tanguy Richard said. "He may never end up being hanged like his old friend, but he must learn that in the civilized world, war crime doesn't pay."

International Federation for Human Rights (FIDH) along with the Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR), the European Center for Constitutional and Human Rights (ECCHR), and the French League for Human Rights (LDH) filed the complaint on Thursday after learning that Rumsfeld was scheduled to visit Paris.

Freethinker
11-06-2007, 06:46 PM
make no mistake the fench police were not closing in on him........

That's a shame.

He is a war criminal.

LiquidFork
11-06-2007, 06:52 PM
Pardon me Liquid but I do not see you posting anything to refute the article I posted.

.

are you kidding me,my whole post minus the "shame on you" was contradicting your article (if in fact you do want to claim trash like that as yours) It was protesters complaining,not the French police.... he left 2.5 hours early to his next stop,not whisked away in the middle of the night taken to a secret island.......The complaint lodged against him didn't even make it past the first hour of inception. The ink was barely dry before it was dismissed.

If you want me to put in a link from some biased news source like you did to prove my words as true I am sorry... I will not... It is good for shits and giggles to post such biased news articles but no way no how am I posting them as my defense. I will simply use common sense..

Here is a link though backing up my claims http://www.allforums.net/showthread.php?p=412508&posted=1#post412508 according to the foolish belief if there is no link it isnt true.

dharmabum
11-06-2007, 07:16 PM
he left 2.5 hours early to his next stop,not whisked away in the middle of the night taken to a secret island.......

Where did anything I post make that claim???

dharmabum
11-06-2007, 07:18 PM
Here is a link though backing up my claims http://www.allforums.net/showthread.php?p=412508&posted=1#post412508 according to the foolish belief if there is no link it isnt true.

Cute, but ineffective.

:thumbs:
db

sassyrunner
11-06-2007, 07:48 PM
I have always been against this war - but if some families can come back to their homes and live safely, more power to them. We can only imagine what they have been through.

LiquidFork
11-06-2007, 07:59 PM
I have always been against this war - but if some families can come back to their homes and live safely, more power to them. We can only imagine what they have been through.

I hate to believe anyone was FOR this war or any other through out history.. Pro war types are in my opinion for the cause of the war accepting the fact of the war itself is an impossible thing to avoid.

despite of what people might want you to believe you can be against a war and still be pro america. You can still be for the reasons of a war and not be a war monger

dharmabum
11-06-2007, 08:01 PM
You cannot continue to monger for a war after the reasons behind it (like WMD) are proven to be nonexistent without being rightly named a war monger.

LiquidFork
11-06-2007, 08:19 PM
You cannot continue to monger for a war after the reasons behind it (like WMD) are prove to be nonexistent without being rightly named a war monger.

To me in my opinion when they were selling the whole war idea to me,WMD was a factor but not the sole or deciding factor for why i thought it was just. The fact that there was no WMD was not a good enough reason for me to believe the war was unjustified.

I also believe that the immediate withdrawal of troops should not be looked upon as "tuck tail and run",but I also do not think it is the best course for the future of our safety and the future of the people of iraq,but no one with a sane mind cant say there needs to be a change of course over there. What is in place though showing some improvement is not working

sedan
11-06-2007, 08:25 PM
I have always been against this war - but if some families can come back to their homes and live safely, more power to them. We can only imagine what they have been through.Agreed.

Getting life back to some kind of normal is the best thing that can happen for the Iraqi people.

dharmabum
11-06-2007, 08:38 PM
Agreed.

Getting life back to some kind of normal is the best thing that can happen for the Iraqi people.

Agreed and that is not going to happen so long as their country is under military occupation and are suffering from a 50% unemployment rate.

dharmabum
11-06-2007, 08:40 PM
The fact that there was no WMD was not a good enough reason for me to believe the war was unjustified.


It is more than enough reason for me.
This war would never have been sold without the claims of WMD.

Jester
11-06-2007, 09:10 PM
Agreed and that is not going to happen so long as their country is under military occupation and are suffering from a 50% unemployment rate.
Unfortunately, if we reduce our influence in Iraq, other countries will exert theirs. A bright future is not on the cards for that country, regardless of whatever actions we might take.

dharmabum
11-06-2007, 09:25 PM
Unfortunately, if we reduce our influence in Iraq, other countries will exert theirs.

Done correctly, that is what should happen.

LiquidFork
11-06-2007, 09:29 PM
Done correctly, that is what should happen.

And I an very curious as to how we can do so "correctly" in your opinion

dharmabum
11-06-2007, 09:31 PM
And I an very curious as to how we can do so "correctly" in your opinion

The Marshall Plan is a good example of how to do this sort of thing correctly.
If the Iraqis want Iran to be involved, which would make sense considering their strong Shite ties, then they should be able to do that with proper oversight from the international community.

LiquidFork
11-06-2007, 09:38 PM
The Marshall Plan is a good example of how to do this sort of thing correctly.
If the Iraqis want Iran to be involved, which would make sense considering their strong Shite ties, then they should be able to do that with proper oversight from the international community.

What role should the international community play in that,and on what level? I swear I am just curious as to what you think. I dont have a link up my sleeve or anything... You can be a prick and all but as much as a dont want to admit it,i do find your incite interesting.

dharmabum
11-06-2007, 09:40 PM
What role should the international community play in that,and on what level?

As much as the Iraqis want them to.

:thumbs:

LiquidFork
11-06-2007, 10:03 PM
And if in turn Iraq becomes more of a resource for a rogue Iranian regime than a little brother how does the international community deal with that?

dharmabum
11-06-2007, 11:58 PM
And if in turn Iraq becomes more of a resource for a rogue Iranian regime than a little brother how does the international community deal with that?

1. Define "rouge Iranian regime"
2. what do you mean by a "resource"?
3. Where did you ever get the idea Iran would be a "little brother" to Iraq?

LiquidFork
11-07-2007, 12:18 AM
1. Define "rouge Iranian regime"
2. what do you mean by a "resource"?
3. Where did you ever get the idea Iran would be a "little brother" to Iraq?

alright .. fair enough let me more clear... what purpose would Iran have to influence Iran but to use it as a resource. We all know the prize Iraq is holding..... who is to say Iran doesn't have interests in its neighbor just to use it for that same purpose as what alot of people blame Bush for....

I personally feel Iran is a rouge regime against US interests in that region. They are not a threat on our own soil... I am not going to be sold on that bullshit twice.... but they could cause complications for stability in an already violate region. Should we move to take out that regime.. NO of course not.... should we keep an eye on them... of course

If there influence in Iraq is not to exploit them as a resource they would then only have reason to lend a helping hand to its neighbor to get them on their feet. They either generally want to help,or take advantage of an already vulnerable situation

dharmabum
11-07-2007, 10:19 AM
what purpose would Iran have to influence Iran but to use it as a resource.

There are a lot of reasons for Iran to take an interest in what happens to their next door neighbor.

They have strong cultural and familial ties with the majority Shite population in Iraq.

Also it is in their best interest not to have a failed state on their border.



I personally feel Iran is a rouge regime against US interests in that region.

Know any Iranians? How well? Ever hang out with them? Ever been to Iran?
I have. My roomate in college was from Iran. I got to know him very well. I have some news for you, Iranians LOVE America. They have loved us and our culture for a long time. They are one of the most westernized nations in the middle east. They are far more westernized than Saudi Arabia or Pakistan. After 9-11 the largest candlelight vigil in solidarity with America held anywhere was held in Tehran, Iran.


They are not a threat on our own soil... I am not going to be sold on that bullshit twice.... but they could cause complications for stability in an already violate region. Should we move to take out that regime.. NO of course not.... should we keep an eye on them... of course

I think that if Iran was treated with something besides racist jingoism and war mongering, they could be a valuable partner in securing Iraq. They should have been brought in from the beginning as part of a multi-national peace keeping force until a Marshall Plan could be implemented for Iraq.

Instead we got a bunch of wanna-be cowboys who decided to try and remake Iraq as a "Free Market Paradise" with their flat tax and their hyper-privatization which have only created a 50% unemployment rate in Iraq.



If there influence in Iraq is not to exploit them as a resource they would then only have reason to lend a helping hand to its neighbor to get them on their feet. They either generally want to help,or take advantage of an already vulnerable situation

I guess the choice is between always seeing the worst in people and acting from that perspective of fear and hatred, sowing what that reaps, or would you rather try to get to know other people, try to see the best in people, give them the benefit of the doubt and act from a perspective of hope and opportunity?

What kind of a society do we want to be?

sassyrunner
11-07-2007, 10:55 AM
I hate to believe anyone was FOR this war or any other through out history.. Pro war types are in my opinion for the cause of the war accepting the fact of the war itself is an impossible thing to avoid.

despite of what people might want you to believe you can be against a war and still be pro america.

Your right about that - anyone that is against this war is just as pro-america as the ones that support this stupid war- maybe even MORE SO, because they are concerned what it's doing to this country.