After an exchange with paul about the missle shield where I lost my cool alittle bit, I was left wondering, would Western Europe be what it is today if there was no US help? What would western Europe look like? Would they be able to go on great experiments in exreme socialism without the safety net of the US having their backs when the shit hits the fan?

It is almost like they know we will be there to bail them out if anything goes really wrong, so they are free to be jackasses and sissys and rub their noses at us.

It would look like Eastern Europe did until the last decade or so. The Soviet Union would have dominated all of Europe and the people would be living just like they did in East Germany, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary and the rest of Eastern Europe.

Why do you think the members of the former Warsaw Pact like us so much more than our so called Western allies?

Is this one of those 'love America' threads.

No, it is a "sick of America being the whipping boy for those who hide behind her" threads.

Well,why dont you get your finger out and do something.

I agree,all those NATO boys are just in it for the free lunch.

There's no question that the world would be a totally different place - we can't say for sure what it would look like, but given that both Nazi German and Soviet Russia would have been the main options then it is likely that the world would be under oppressive leadership.

Take away, France, or Ireland, or Italy, or Spain or any other insignificant country and really the world would be exactly the same as it is now more or less.

But, just because America has shaped the world does not give the US a free pass to do whatever the hell it wants. Trav appears to believe that the rest of the world should just say thanks and bow down.

At what point in time are you thinking of pulling U.S. assistance - prior to ever being involved in WWI, going through WWI and not getting into Europe's WWII? Going through WWII as we did and just going home without a NATO? Each senario poses a multitude of possibilities. WWII in Europe without U.S. involvement would have left the continent under German control, most likely from the Russian border to the Atlantic. The war with Japan may not have ended with our dropping nukes.

There's no question that the world would be a totally different place - we can't say for sure what it would look like, but given that both Nazi German and Soviet Russia would have been the main options then it is likely that the world would be under oppressive leadership.

Take away, France, or Ireland, or Italy, or Spain or any other insignificant country and really the world would be exactly the same as it is now more or less.

But, just because America has shaped the world does not give the US a free pass to do whatever the hell it wants. Trav appears to believe that the rest of the world should just say thanks and bow down.

I did not mean bow down before us. All I am saying is these European countries base their criticism on what they would do in our situation. Of course since they have low responsibility worldwide they can afford to "negotiate" until the cows come home, or until the US is forced to act on thier behalf. I just would like if they stopped looking at everyhting through the eyes of a child standing behind their mommy and looked through the mommys eyes for once.

I couldn't agree more.

And what if the 'child' is right and 'Mom' is wrong.

Parents know best,thats right.

And what if the 'child' is right and 'Mom' is wrong.
Then it'd be a first.

Thats a maybe.

If there were no US W.Europe would be an overpopulated cesspit.

It would be today something like China,were a few Commies rule over

a vast population,as Russia would have eventually won WW2, even without

US aid and a second front.

The UK as an island state would have survived,until the end of the conflict,then invaded by Red Army Troops followed by Ireland.

The world would be a poorer place,as without the energy and financial

dynamics of the US, nowhere would have a will to generate enterprise

and financial markets wouldnt exist.


I imagine by now another war would have occured,with people resisting Russian rule, supplied by the country of Britain which spreads from the Texas border to the Pole.

Would the Russians have gotten as far as Germany without the U.S. stepping in? I really wonder about that. Had the U.S. only been occupied with Japan, the Third Reich would not have been fighting on their western front, having already kicked the Brits out and soundly thumping France into submission. With the majority of the German forces available to head east, IMO, they might have been stopped at the Russian border, and occupied eastern Europe without much effort.

Would the Russians have gotten as far as Germany without the U.S. stepping in? I really wonder about that. Had the U.S. only been occupied with Japan, the Third Reich would not have been fighting on their western front, having already kicked the Brits out and soundly thumping France into submission. With the majority of the German forces available to head east, IMO, they might have been stopped at the Russian border, and occupied eastern Europe without much effort.

The Third Reich commenced fighting on its Eastern Front in June 1941. Hitler abandoned the invasion of the UK, having lost "The Battle of Britain", and switched most of his forces to invading the USSR.
In December 1941, the Soviets defeated the Germans just outside Moscow and began to drive them out of the USSR. The annihilation of a German Army at Stalingrad, occurred in early 1943.

Operation Torch, the first action of the US army in the European War, was in November 1942. There is no evidence that Hitler diverted any of his forces,at that time, from the Russian Front to counteract any threat in Africa. (Obviously this changed as the war progressed, and the impact of US forces significantly shortened the war.)

Essentially the USSR had demonstrated its ability to defeat the German forces, before the US had entered the war.

Without the US involvement in the European Theatre of WWII the end result would probably have been that all of Europe, including the UK and Ireland, become vassal countries of the USSR.

Essentially the USSR had demonstrated its ability to defeat the German forces, before the US had entered the war.

The German army was defeated by the weather not by the Russian forces.

The Third Reich commenced fighting on its Eastern Front in June 1941. Hitler abandoned the invasion of the UK, having lost "The Battle of Britain", and switched most of his forces to invading the USSR.
In December 1941, the Soviets defeated the Germans just outside Moscow and began to drive them out of the USSR. The annihilation of a German Army at Stalingrad, occurred in early 1943.

Operation Torch, the first action of the US army in the European War, was in November 1942. There is no evidence that Hitler diverted any of his forces,at that time, from the Russian Front to counteract any threat in Africa. (Obviously this changed as the war progressed, and the impact of US forces significantly shortened the war.)

Essentially the USSR had demonstrated its ability to defeat the German forces, before the US had entered the war.

Without the US involvement in the European Theatre of WWII the end result would probably have been that all of Europe, including the UK and Ireland, become vassal countries of the USSR.

Had the U.S. not been involved - even as a hardware supplier - would Germany have lost the Battle of Britan?

The Russians were aided in no small way by the Germans inability to function in the winter.

I wasnt aware that America had started supplying Britain by the time of the Battle of Britain.

Ive always found it strange that at Dunkirk the Germans were ordered to sit back and allow the majority of The British Expeditionary Force to be evacuated.

I read sometime back,that Hitler had illusions of one day joining with Britain to defeat Russia,but I cannot find the source,anybody any ideas.


The Russian winter.Im not sure if it would be worse than what parts of Nrth America experience annually,but as Hitler envisiged victory by November,no winter clothing was provided to German troops.

Fuel,how the Germans didnt use an anti freeze,I'll never know.

Fuel,how the Germans didnt use an anti freeze,I'll never know.
Because they're incredibly smart, and very driven motherfuckers.

Hmmm,maybe for the same reason Hitler envisaged,the fighting would be over before the winter set in.

I wasnt aware that America had started supplying Britain by the time of the Battle of Britain.

Ive always found it strange that at Dunkirk the Germans were ordered to sit back and allow the majority of The British Expeditionary Force to be evacuated.

I read sometime back,that Hitler had illusions of one day joining with Britain to defeat Russia,but I cannot find the source,anybody any ideas.


The Russian winter.Im not sure if it would be worse than what parts of Nrth America experience annually,but as Hitler envisiged victory by November,no winter clothing was provided to German troops.

Fuel,how the Germans didnt use an anti freeze,I'll never know.


Hitler did not hate the British, he wanted to make peace with them. he did hate the Russians and communism though.

I dont think he intentionally let the Brits out of Dunkirk so he could ally with them later though. the reason they got out of Dunkirk is because that fat bastard Goering wanted the honor of destroying the trapped allies with air power. So, Hitler held the panzer divisions back and the luftwaffe tried without success to destroy the fleeing allies. If Hitler had unleashed the panzer divisions it would have been a slaughter.

Hitler did not hate the British, he wanted to make peace with them. he did hate the Russians and communism though.

.That's true, and it also explains why the Bolshies on this board--and I won't name any names but then again, I don't have to--hate Adolf Bush and his zillions of fascist warmongering friends....like me.

Eva Frau Kommandant

Is this an Anglo Saxon thing?

Naw, just an idealogy thing.

OK.
Well as I said above, Hitler had no wish to defeat the Britishers to the extent that they no longer were a world force.

I think he quite admired the Empire they had at the time, and of course, wanted them to eventually join in defeating communism.

Just having a bit of fun, paul, at the expense of certain unnamed posters on this board ( I'm scared to name them because I might get sent to the Gulag again and they won't let me take my Monopoly game this time--and it's so cold and boring there....)

I don't think
Hitler wanted war with England at all. I think he was really shocked when England declared war over Poland.
Hitler said the 2 countries had much in common and should unite to fight international Bolshevism.

And no, i'm not really Eva Braun, despite what the KGB thinks.

monopoly.

The German army was defeated by the weather not by the Russian forces.
agreed

The German army was defeated by the weather not by the Russian forces.

Ah, didn't both the German and USSR forces have to suffer through the same weather?
Logistics, better equipment for the environment, greater manpower resources, etc., had no bearing on the result. It was just an un-equal contest because the USSR had weather on their side.
Should the weather be held responsible for other victories, or defeats, in history?

Ah, didn't both the German and USSR forces have to suffer through the same weather?
Logistics, better equipment for the environment, greater manpower resources, etc., had no bearing on the result. It was just an un-equal contest because the USSR had weather on their side.
Should the weather be held responsible for other victories, or defeats, in history?

I believe that Napolean was defeated by the russians the same way

although I could be wrong

...although I could be wrong

Depends for whom you were rooting.:) If you were on the French side, you blamed the weather. Others would point to the over-extended French supply lines.
The loser often blames the conditions.

Ah, didn't both the German and USSR forces have to suffer through the same weather?
Logistics, better equipment for the environment, greater manpower resources, etc., had no bearing on the result. It was just an un-equal contest because the USSR had weather on their side.
Should the weather be held responsible for other victories, or defeats, in history?

No, not really. The Russians had shelter from the weather but because of their scorched earth policy in which they destroyed everything as they retreated the Germans did not have shelter from the weather. The Russians destroyed all food stuffs, housing, etc. as they retreated.

Germany invading Russia was the biggest mistake of the war. And apparently Hitler didn't learn a thing from Napoleon. If he didn't invade Russia I imagine that Germany would probably own most of Europe right now. (That is if there was no US) However, since there is, and we were forced into the war, we would have eventually beaten Germany back ourselves. Hitler just decided to help out and expedite the process.

Its strange that the US came to the aid of Britain-the country Americans fought and threw out.

Yet fought Germany-the biggest ethnic population of the US.

Germans and English are basically cousins-ie-the Anglo's and the Saxons.

Should have let them destroy each other.Maybe.

Its strange that the US came to the aid of Britain-the country Americans fought and threw out.
I'm not upset about that in the slightest. The Brits have pretty much always been our older, more civilized uncle who taught us everything we know about business and the importance of industry. In essence, I guess that makes us the redheaded, rather unruly nephew. In our hearts, we love one another (but make fun of each other regardless).

The way I see it - we pretty much owe EVERYTHING to them.
Yet fought Germany-the biggest ethnic population of the US.
I don't know about that (and with that said, we're all a mixture nowadays anyway). I, myself, am basically German, English, Irish, and Norwegian.
Germans and English are basically cousins-ie-the Anglo's and the Saxons.
There's no better combination, IMO. :D
Should have let them destroy each other.Maybe.
Never.

I'm not upset about that in the slightest. The Brits have pretty much always been our older, more civilized uncle who taught us everything we know about business and the importance of industry. In essence, I guess that makes us the redheaded, rather unruly nephew. In our hearts, we love one another (but make fun of each other regardless).

The way I see it - we pretty much owe EVERYTHING to them.
Is that so. Maybe thats one of the things wrong with your country.There is a small minority in the United States who view the world thru the old arrogant
Anglo Saxon bullshit eyes.
Who have dragged the 80+ percent of Americans who have NO relationships or ancestory to England into more years of war than years of peace.

I don't know about that (and with that said, we're all a mixture nowadays anyway). I, myself, am basically German, English, Irish, and Norwegian.

There's no better combination, IMO. :DThats a fine mix-but you should drop the Englishness bit slightly.As its only a quarter of what you are.


Never.
Dont see why not. One evil Empire was as bad as the other-in the end America destroyed both.

Is that so. Maybe thats one of the things wrong with your country.There is a small minority in the United States who view the world thru the old arrogant
Anglo Saxon bullshit eyes.
Despite what you may think of them, personally - (which, in the grand scheme of things, doesn't matter) those people designed and built the modern world.

We should be fellating them, not questioning their intentions.
Who have dragged the 80+ percent of Americans who have NO relationships or ancestory to England into more years of war than years of peace.
How so? Even if you're technically correct here, their contribution far out weighs their occasional use of injudicious power. All told, those people are FAR better than you give them credit for. Historically speaking, their intentions have been (for the most part, that is) honorable.
Thats a fine mix-but you should drop the Englishness bit slightly.As its only a quarter of what you are.
Not in my heart. They didn't give up when everyone else in Europe did. They should ALWAYS be praised for their tenacity.

Whatever you wanna say about the Brits, say it, but whatever you do, don't call 'em pussies; they're not.

Despite what you may think of them, personally - (which, in the grand scheme of things, doesn't matter) those people designed and built the modern world.I have many many reasons to hate the English-yet I do not. The British structure for running a nation is used in one form or another throughout the world-true.

We should be fellating them, not questioning their intentions.Thats a very unAmerican comment.
As for questioning their intentions-all governments intentions should be questioned at all times.

How so? Even if you're technically correct here, their contribution far out weighs their occasional use of injudicious power. All told, those people are FAR better than you give them credit for. Historically speaking, their intentions have been (for the most part, that is) honorable.Laughable ya mean.An Empire is built on the rights cultures freedoms and bones of those 'lesser' people you conquer.

Not in my heart. They didn't give up when everyone else in Europe did. They should ALWAYS be praised for their tenacity.
Neither did Ireland give up against them-but so what.

Whatever you wanna say about the Brits, say it, but whatever you do, don't call 'em pussies; they're not.Well pussies aint a word I use.
But you gotta be honest-the Brits have illusions of granduer which dosent exist anymore-thats why they would follow the White House to the ends of the world-to stay in the game,and be invited to the top table in world politics.

Thats a very unAmerican comment.
As for questioning their intentions-all governments intentions should be questioned at all times.
Sure, to a degree.
Laughable ya mean.
No way.
An Empire is built on the rights cultures freedoms and bones of those 'lesser' people you conquer.
True.
Neither did Ireland give up against them-but so what.
Like the French, many of you joined the Nazis. Of course, you "gave up".
Well pussies aint a word I use.
But you gotta be honest-the Brits have illusions of granduer which dosent exist anymore-thats why they would follow the White House to the ends of the world-to stay in the game,and be invited to the top table in world politics.
You don't think they're a BIG player on the world stage? Pfft - I wouldn't wanna sit at said "top table" without 'em. In short, they've ALWAYS got a seat next to ours.

Like the French, many of you joined the Nazis. Of course, you "gave up".

You wanna re-read your history mac.

Unlike anyone-300,000 Irishmen fought in British Service during WW2.

After England-Irishmen have won more Victoria Cross's that any nation.

As for giving up-I dont see how foghting Englands wars has ever benefitted this country-so why bother.

What individuals do-I guess they do for their own ideas.

Its strange that the US came to the aid of Britain-the country Americans fought and threw out.

Yet fought Germany-the biggest ethnic population of the US.

Germans and English are basically cousins-ie-the Anglo's and the Saxons.

Should have let them destroy each other.Maybe.

Your post shows that you don't really understand the American psyche, Paul. My father, two of my cousins and four of my uncles were born in Germany and yet each of them volunteered to fight the Germans as Americans. My father had a heart condition so he worked making weapons for the American cause, two of my uncles were injured, one at Normandy and one in central Germany while fighting the Germans. They might have been born in Germany but they all considered themselves Americans.

Your post shows that you don't really understand the American psyche, Paul. My father, two of my cousins and four of my uncles were born in Germany and yet each of them volunteered to fight the Germans as Americans. My father had a heart condition so he worked making weapons for the American cause, two of my uncles were injured, one at Normandy and one in central Germany while fighting the Germans. They might have been born in Germany but they all considered themselves Americans.
My point is/was that America has adapted an Anglo agenda-even tho the vast majority of Americans are not of Anglo ancestry.

No, not really. The Russians had shelter from the weather but because of their scorched earth policy in which they destroyed everything as they retreated the Germans did not have shelter from the weather. The Russians destroyed all food stuffs, housing, etc. as they retreated.

This is true to a point. The speed of the initial German advance prevented this from happening in a lot of cases.

The Russians were better prepared for the weather for a number of reasons. The Russians knew they'd be fighting a winter campaign, while the German plan was to knock the Russians out of the war with a blitzkrieg like they had done to France. The German invasion of Russia was delayed six weeks because the troops were diverted to Greece and the Balkans to bail out the Italians who had gotten bogged down fighting the Greeks. Add to this the fact that the railroad lines in Russia used a narrower gauge of track, and the fact that most German transport vehicles were horse-drawn and not motorized, and you have a major logistical nightmare for the Germans. To a certain degree, the Germans were defeated by the speed of their initial advance. They outran their supplies.

Numbers prevented the Germans from winning that war. The sheer size of Russia and the vast discrepancy in population meant the Germans never stood a chance in hell of beating the Russians. The Russians lost 20 million people in that war, far more than any other country, and they still would have kicked Germany's ass unaided if we hadn't gotten involved IMO.

This is true to a point. The speed of the initial German advance prevented this from happening in a lot of cases.

The Russians were better prepared for the weather for a number of reasons. The Russians knew they'd be fighting a winter campaign, while the German plan was to knock the Russians out of the war with a blitzkrieg like they had done to France. The German invasion of Russia was delayed six weeks because the troops were diverted to Greece and the Balkans to bail out the Italians who had gotten bogged down fighting the Greeks. Add to this the fact that the railroad lines in Russia used a narrower gauge of track, and the fact that most German transport vehicles were horse-drawn and not motorized, and you have a major logistical nightmare for the Germans. To a certain degree, the Germans were defeated by the speed of their initial advance. They outran their supplies.

Numbers prevented the Germans from winning that war. The sheer size of Russia and the vast discrepancy in population meant the Germans never stood a chance in hell of beating the Russians. The Russians lost 20 million people in that war, far more than any other country, and they still would have kicked Germany's ass unaided if we hadn't gotten involved IMO.
********************************
I think the word yer lookin for is Blitzkrieg which was implemented
throughout much of the opening theatre during WWII by the
German Wehrmacht to ward off the inefficiency of Trench warfare
as during WWI.

OH,My bad,I see the word in yer post.
Funny,I don't remember it bein there when I glossed over yer Reply.
I guess I'm also gettin a bit ahead of my post supples.
Some days I can go w/o even actually readin a nutter's post,
just kinda usin Telepathy and knowin what kinda answers {Reply}
udder Posters always use.
Pretty neat...huh.?

You wanna re-read your history mac.
I don't think so. I'm pretty sure I've got you dead-to-rights on this one. Just like the Vichy French after you -

http://searchwarp.com/swa88540.htm

Not only did many of you aid them, but several of you also provided them with shelter after the war.

http://www.thehistorychannel.co.uk/site/tv_guide/full_details/Conflict/programme_3495.php
Unlike anyone-300,000 Irishmen fought in British Service during WW2.
I'm sure. You also had a lot of Nazi sympathizers.
As for giving up-I dont see how foghting Englands wars has ever benefitted this country-so why bother.
And your mentality is exactly why your country was chock-full of 'em.

Ah yes-the old 'Ireland supported the Nazis routine' lets see.

Link one refers to a civil war incident-so what.
So what-wheres the Nazi connection there.

Link two refers to Nazis escaping to Ireland to start new lives-in the history
section I have already referred to this.

Now bringing up this nazi connection seems a bit hypocritical to me.
Ireland did have Nazis after ww2-no denying it, but we're talking a handful
of people.

Now lets have a look at the good old US of A.

George Bush's grandfather-the late US Senator Prescott Bush,
was a director and shareholder of companies which profited from
involvement with Nazi financial backers.
His business dealings which continued until his assets were seized in 1942
under the Trading with the Enemy Act.

Wernher von Braun the father of the American Space and Missile program
was an SS Officer.

Operation Paper Clip was a US Government Program to bring Nazis to the
United States during and after the war to advance US military technology.

So when it comes down to it-a few Nazis wanting to escape the war,

is small fry to having a full program of bringing war criminals into the country,
for their knowledge.

People in glass houses.

Now bringing up this nazi connection seems a bit hypocritical to me.
How so - at least we didn't do it for free, and we never once tried to emulate their government. Did Ireland? Oh, yeah - that's right....they did.
Now lets have a look at the good old US of A.

George Bush's grandfather-the late US Senator Prescott Bush,
was a director and shareholder of companies which profited from
involvement with Nazi financial backers.
His business dealings which continued until his assets were seized in 1942
under the Trading with the Enemy Act.
You talk about a handful of people in Ireland, yet you mention two names, of which, the first one you cite happens to be an indictment of Bush senior for having business "dealings" with a company that "profited" from Nazi "financial backers". Firstly, if he didn't profit from whatever dealings he was conducting as director, then he'd be failing his stockholders, wouldn't he? Every time you fill up with Royal Dutch Shell gasoline (if it's the cheapest price at the pump) do you think you're doing business with barbarians, or are you just under the impression that you're filling your goddamned tank for the best available price?
Wernher von Braun the father of the American Space and Missile program
was an SS Officer.
Yeah, we should've invested in someone else, for sure. :rolleyes:
Operation Paper Clip was a US Government Program to bring Nazis to the
United States during and after the war to advance US military technology.
Do you blame us? Some of those scientists had no choice in the matter. We picked over the best brains Germany had to offer.

IMHO, learning from Nazis TO take 'em down is a touch better than putting them up indefinitely. At least we got something out of it, and lo and behold, we stopped 'em in the process. What did Ireland do? Give 'em a tax break?
So when it comes down to it-a few Nazis wanting to escape the war,

is small fry to having a full program of bringing war criminals into the country,
for their knowledge.

People in glass houses.
Oh, and once again, it's just sooooo fuckin' easy for you to point fingers from the shores of a relatively worthless country, isn't it? You know, if Ireland had to actually do something for a change, then maybe I could scrutinize your country as harshly as you have mine, Mr. Armchair-fucking-quarterback.

Link one refers to a civil war incident-so what.
So what-wheres the Nazi connection there.
You're correct, it does. It's quite telling, actually. For your sake, I'd read it again.

How so - at least we didn't do it for free, and we never once tried to emulate their government. Did Ireland? Oh, yeah - that's right....they did.Whithout checking-I can tell you that Ireland
never had a nazi type government-never.

You talk about a handful of people in Ireland, yet you mention two names, of which, the first one you cite happens to be an indictment of Bush senior for having business "dealings" with a company that "profited" from Nazi "financial backers". Firstly, if he didn't profit from whatever dealings he was conducting as director, then he'd be failing his stockholders, wouldn't he? Every time you fill up with Royal Dutch Shell gasoline (if it's the cheapest price at the pump) do you think you're doing business with barbarians, or are you just under the impression that you're filling your goddamned tank for the best available price?Well good to see business is business-good old Prescott, he made a return on his dollar, despite the slave labor used in the industries he done business with, but fuck it, thats not the point, right.

Everytime I go to the pump-which is usually twice, I look at the price then squeeze-like most normal people, by the way [youll like this] its usually a
Texaco station I us

Yeah, we should've invested in someone else, for sure.
Do you blame us? Some of those scientists had no choice in the matter. We picked over the best brains Germany had to offer.
I think youll find-none of those scientists had a choice in the matter.

IMHO, learning from Nazis TO take 'em down is a touch better than putting them up indefinitely. At least we got something out of it, and lo and behold, we stopped 'em in the process. What did Ireland do? Give 'em a tax break?What does 'take em down a touch' mean?
Do you think it means bringing them to warm sunny New Mexico, housing them and feeding them, schooling their kids, fuck the Immigration Act on this one eh.
What did Ireland do?

Some slipped thru a very porous Immigration Policy-very good.


Oh, and once again, it's just sooooo fuckin' easy for you to point fingers from the shores of a relatively worthless country, isn't it? You know, if Ireland had to actually do something for a change, then maybe I could scrutinize your country as harshly as you have mine, Mr. Armchair-fucking-quarterback.Once again your arrogance shows.

Your right about Ireland being an insignificant counrty-that suits me just fine.

Scrutinise away-Ireland is like the US in one sense-its rotten from the top down.
Yeah-these boards are for armchair quarterbacks your right,
but dont worry,Ill ask your permission before I post something you dont like,
will I fuck.
Youve taken on the mantle of Defender of America, and once again you make a fool of yourself.

Whithout checking-I can tell you that Ireland
never had a nazi type government-never.
:rolleyes:

"Rory, Liam, Richard and Joe were similarly murdered by the Irish Nazi government in Mountjoy Jail on that terrible morning of 8 December 1922, in retaliation for an action by anti-government forces. That set the pattern. From then on, the Irish Nazi government was the direct precursor of Hitler’s Nazis in occupied Europe during World War II. Admittedly the scale was greater in Nazi Germany, but nevertheless the Irish Nazi governement of 1922-23 set the precedent in the twentieth century for the murdering of innocent people in retaliation for military action by anti-government forces. When the German Nazis razed an entire village to the ground, along with its inhabitants, in revenge for the assassination of Reinhart Heydrich by anti-government forces, they were taking their cue from the tactics of the Irish Nazi government of 1922-23.

THE IRISH NAZI GOVERNMENT OF 1922-23 SHOWED THE GERMANS HOW TO DO IT. THE IRISH WERE THE ORIGINAL NAZIS OF THE TWENTIETH CENTURY."


Read it again, Paul: http://searchwarp.com/swa88540.htm
I think youll find-none of those scientists had a choice in the matter.
They expatriated themselves from Nazi Germany, so I guess you're right (if they wanted our protection, that is). That said, (and I think you know this) that's not what I meant when I said they didn't have a choice in the matter.
What does 'take em down a touch' mean?
I said (and pay attention here), "learning from the Nazis TO take 'em down (as in, like, to defeat 'em in war) IS a touch better than putting them up indefinitely." (With the implication being that you people did it for nothing.)
Do you think it means bringing them to warm sunny New Mexico, housing them and feeding them, schooling their kids, fuck the Immigration Act on this one eh.
And according to flaming liberals like you, that's fine, right? The obvious jab aside, what point are you trying to make here?
Once again your arrogance shows.
:rolleyes:
Your right about Ireland being an insignificant counrty-that suits me just fine.
Being that you don't really have a choice in the matter, I hope so.
Scrutinise away-Ireland is like the US in one sense-its rotten from the top down.
Yeah, well, at least my "rotten" country can support rotten countries like yours only to get slapped in the face for it by "self-employed" people like you.
Yeah-these boards are for armchair quarterbacks your right,
but dont worry,Ill ask your permission before I post something you dont like.....
Boy, that almost sounds like a self-fulfilling prophecy, doesn't it?

That said, you don't always offend me, Paulc, so don't worry about it - I wouldn't want you to break precedent here.
Youve taken on the mantle of Defender of America, and once again you make a fool of yourself.
And you seem to take pride in bashing it around every corner you turn, Paul. Next time you say you're not "anti-American", I'll chalk it up to you hiding behind the "it's your administration I hate" line when all you do is talk about what a miserable failure our foreign policy has been over the last 50 years. IOW, save your breath - I know (as do many others here) where you stand. All I ask is that you stop lying about it.

:rolleyes:

"Rory, Liam, Richard and Joe were similarly murdered by the Irish Nazi government in Mountjoy Jail on that terrible morning of 8 December 1922, in retaliation for an action by anti-government forces. That set the pattern. From then on, the Irish Nazi government was the direct precursor of Hitler’s Nazis in occupied Europe during World War II. Admittedly the scale was greater in Nazi Germany, but nevertheless the Irish Nazi governement of 1922-23 set the precedent in the twentieth century for the murdering of innocent people in retaliation for military action by anti-government forces. When the German Nazis razed an entire village to the ground, along with its inhabitants, in revenge for the assassination of Reinhart Heydrich by anti-government forces, they were taking their cue from the tactics of the Irish Nazi government of 1922-23.

THE IRISH NAZI GOVERNMENT OF 1922-23 SHOWED THE GERMANS HOW TO DO IT. THE IRISH WERE THE ORIGINAL NAZIS OF THE TWENTIETH CENTURY."


Read it again, Paul: http://searchwarp.com/swa88540.htm
Yes read it again, still only read about a bloody attack during the civil war.
Its a well established fact that the Irish Government have been more extreme
against Republicans than the British were.

They expatriated themselves from Nazi Germany, so I guess you're right (if they wanted our protection, that is). That said, (and I think you know this) that's not what I meant when I said they didn't have a choice in the matter.No-on this part-I have no idea what you meant here.

I said (and pay attention here), "learning from the Nazis TO take 'em down (as in, like, to defeat 'em in war) IS a touch better than putting them up indefinitely." (With the implication being that you people did it for nothing.)/QUOTE]From your link this incident took place in 1922-long before the Nazis were in power.
Civil War is the worst kind of war-as hatred comes into play more strongly than the norm.
Im thinking your equating a brutal attack to Nazism-sorry I dont get that.

And according to flaming liberals like you, that's fine, right? The obvious jab aside, what point are you trying to make here?The point Im making is that when it suits-war crinimals can and do
be brought to the United States with their families bypassing Immigration Laws.
So I guess the Immigration Act is as has been suggested by other posters,
is not an economic and moral issue-but a political one.

Yeah, well, at least my "rotten" country can support rotten countries like yours only to get slapped in the face for it by "self-employed" people like you.
I have asked before, I'll ask again.Private business's aside-show me where
a US Administration has 'supported this rotten country'?

And you seem to take pride in bashing it around every corner you turn, Paul. Next time you say you're not "anti-American", I'll chalk it up to you hiding behind the "it's your administration I hate" line when all you do is talk about what a miserable failure our foreign policy has been over the last 50 years. IOW, save your breath - I know (as do many others here) where you stand. All I ask is that you stop lying about it.
I-unlike you can seperate country from Government.
Whether it be Republican or Democrat Administration-they all have sided
with one side or the other for the past 50 years.
Your country was founded on very strict principles-
as a nation free of oppression-religious persecution-and so on.
The United States is in a unique position in the world.
Isnt it the duty of the US to promote the cause of political and economic freedom-yes.
You so-called cnservative types have never actually sat down and put in stone-what principles your gonna live by-all you do is defend Government Policy-but attack anyone you deem anti that Government-I tell ya-when they were giving out brains-Republicans must have been at a flag waving convention.

You so-called cnservative types have never actually sat down and put in stone-what principles your gonna live by-all you do is defend Government Policy-but attack anyone you deem anti that Government-I tell ya-when they were giving out brains-Republicans must have been at a flag waving convention.
When you insult someone's intellect, it's generally a good idea to learn how to spell and formulate a basic sentence first. That said, math, science, and well, general education aside, I'm sure you're much smarter than I am, Paul. You win this one.

On a parting note, let's try some remedial math - how many fingers am I holding up:

:upyours:

Despite your 6th grade education, even you should be able to figure that one out.

No-on this part-I have no idea what you meant here.
Oops - looks like I gave you too much credit. Sorry.....I won't make that mistake again.

When you insult someone's intellect, it's generally a good idea to learn how to spell and formulate a basic sentence first. That said, math, science, and well, general education aside, I'm sure you're much smarter than I am, Paul. You win this one.

On a parting note, let's try some remedial math - how many fingers am I holding up:

:upyours:

Despite your 6th grade education, even you should be able to figure that one out.
ZZZZZZZZZZZZ

I wasnt well educated-so what.

I have spell checker-so what.

Now Im begining to see your character showing thru.

As a famous American once said:''Guard against the impostures of patriotism''

Boy was he right.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZ

I wasnt well educated-so what.
So don't call other people stupid, that's what.

Does that really come as a surprise to you?

You were the one impugning intelligence here, not me. I said what I said in response to you, and I was fuckin'-A in the right to do it. As you so delicately put it above, "people who live in glass houses...", right???
Now Im begining to see your character showing thru.
The feeling's mutual.
As a famous American once said:''Guard against the impostures of patriotism''

Boy was he right.
I couldn't agree more. You're the one who doesn't care whether or not your OWN country prospers, and here, you have the balls to question MY patriotism.....:rolleyes:

Get bent.

So don't call other people stupid, that's what.Tell ya what-dont imply your more Intelligent-I wont imply your stupid.

You were the one impugning intelligence here, not me. I said what I said in response to you, and I was fuckin'-A in the right to do it. As you so delicately put it above, "people who live in glass houses...", right???Well if you addressed what I say-rather than posting stupid anti Irish links, Id give you more room.
If you want to post something to debate about regarding Ireland-feel free.

I couldn't agree more. You're the one who doesn't care whether or not your OWN country prospers, and here, you have the balls to question MY patriotism
I dont for a minute think your not a good American-were we would go seperate ways is that I believe we have to scrutinise everything our governments do-not follow them blindly.

Tell ya what-dont imply your more Intelligent-I wont imply your stupid.
I'm sorry I did that. It's a cheap tactic, and I was wrong for employing it.
Well if you addressed what I say-rather than posting stupid anti Irish links, Id give you more room.
Paul - you have to see the (rather comical) irony here...I post a link that paints Ireland in a bad light, and now, your implication is that the link is anti-Irish. That's toooooo funny considering the fact that you just accused me of not paying attention to my own country's history (i.e., what we stand/stood for).

Who knows - maybe we're both right to a degree. :)
w(h)ere we would go seperate ways is that I believe we have to scrutinise everything our governments do-not follow them blindly.
I don't "follow" my government blindly; I just think your criticism of them is meritless and myopic considering what we're trying to accomplish in the Middle East. As a matter of fact (and you're not alone here), I think the general consensus of our history and foreign policy on these boards is meritless and myopic. IOW, the whole "would've, could've, should've" argument is nothing more than a specious, no-count, good-for-nothing, goldbrick.

Prae-let me tell you a couple of things here.

Growing up in Ireland was an unpleasant experience for me, alas we have no

say in that matter.

In the North there was death destruction fear and discrimination.

In the South there was a third world economy rotten to the core.

Out of these 2 experiences I have learnt two very important lessons in life.

[1]That war is very rarely justifiable.

[2]As our leaders evaded tax paying on a grand scale-then I can on a small scale.

[3]Always question what a gov. is doing-because of 2 and 3.

[4]Love your country-never the management.

If you want some ammo look no further than the 'Moriarty Tribunral'.

Prae-let me tell you a couple of things here.

Growing up in Ireland was an unpleasant experience for me, alas we have no

say in that matter.

In the North there was death destruction fear and discrimination.

In the South there was a third world economy rotten to the core.

Out of these 2 experiences I have learnt two very important lessons in life.

[1]That war is very rarely justifiable.

[2]As our leaders evaded tax paying on a grand scale-then I can on a small scale.

[3]Always question what a gov. is doing-because of 2 and 3.

[4]Love your country-never the management.
Fair enough - however I disagree on point 1 & 2. The way you people WAGED war was unjustifiable, not the reason. Corruption is always a problem, true - but that's an issue ancillary to our safety right now. Some might consider the problem linked, and I can understand that rationalization, however, to focus on it in lieu of trying to preemptively solve a large problem in the Middle East is shortsighted, to say the least (i.e., to focus on Halliburton, Bechtel, etc, etc., is defeatist and pointless, period).

Point 2 is simply justification for why you're shirking your duty as an Irish citizen. Last I checked, you can vote on whom you want in office. Don't use the rampant corruption in your parliament as an excuse to abscond with money that's not rightfully yours (even if they don't catch you in the process). I mean, isn't that the reason you don't trust your elected officials in the first place? Why emulate what they're doing (that is, if you can even prove it, but I digress)?

Maybe you could explain more of 'your war was unjustifable'.

Tax-I dont live in the Republic at present-I prefer to rip off Gordan Brown these days.

Maybe you could explain more of 'your war was unjustifable'.
Oops - I changed that, Paul. I thought about it, and I didn't want it to come off that way. Check it again. :)
Tax-I dont live in the Republic at present-I prefer to rip off Gordan Brown these days.
I'll google him when I get a chance. I don't know much about his position on things.

Just dont mention my name.

There's a nice Youtube video of him picking his nose...:eek:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VaP1HB7Vew

Brown is a scottish accountant.

Scots are tight fisted at the best of times.

While Chancellor of the Exchequer he wasnt a fan of Pres. Bush,

tho as PM he has changed a bit.

I thought he done well in response to the car bombing of Glasgow airport.

From what I can tell, I kinda like the guy. He seems like a pretty straight shooter.

Well he hasnt had a major issue to deal with as of yet.

The British people are only now coming out of the state of shock they were in under maggie thatcher.

Sounds like you don't like Maggie. But that's another thread

Sounds like you don't like Maggie.
Ya think!?!

Brown is a scottish accountant.
While Chancellor of the Exchequer he wasnt a fan of Pres. Bush


Well, no, he wasn't.

But then, unlike so many who are undying fans of B*sh, Mr Brown possesses a 3 digit IQ.

:thumbs:

You're such a pontificating, elitist fucktard, FT.

On that note, do you ever get tired of standing on that soapbox of yours?

Germany invading Russia was the biggest mistake of the war. And apparently Hitler didn't learn a thing from Napoleon. If he didn't invade Russia I imagine that Germany would probably own most of Europe right now. (That is if there was no US) However, since there is, and we were forced into the war, we would have eventually beaten Germany back ourselves. Hitler just decided to help out and expedite the process.

That is making a huge assumption, that Russia wouldn't backstab Germany which I think it had planned on doing. I'll write more on that, but I gotta run to class

After 20 years of European Car Manufacturers selling Sat Nav for they're cars
which illegally used US Military Communication Satellites to pin point your location-the EU has finally put up its own system.

The Pentagon could have caused a million car crashes at once-but they didnt mind haha.