The man who piloted the Enola Gay, the plane that dropped the A-bomb on Hiroshima, has died.

Col Paul Tibbets was age 92 and had requested no tombstone, saying he didn't want his gravesite to become a place of protest:


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071101/ap_on_re_us/obit_tibbets

RIP, I hope he knows he saved a lot of lives, as strange as that sounds.

Let's hope his funeral doesn't become a 3 ring circus.

Would you drop a domb that kills 300,000 people to save the lives of millions more? tough call.

Would you drop a domb that kills 300,000 people to save the lives of millions more? tough call.

Definitely is that. They mentioned this on NPR today. His "manager" said that Tibbets always believed dropping the bomb saved lives in the long run because he believed it forestalled a US invasion of the Japanese home islands. Hard to say if that's true or not, or even for sure that we would have invaded. We were in a perfect position to blockade the islands and starve them into submission if we so chose, but how many Japanese would have starved to death before they surrendered?

Frankly, I was quite surprised at the news as I had assumed Gen. Tibbets was long dead. :)

Would you drop a domb that kills 300,000 people to save the lives of millions more? tough call.

300,000 was the population of Hiroshima at the time of the bombing. The number killed was comparable with that killed in the fie-bombing of Tokyo. Somewhere in the 100,000 range.

WWII was probably the only war where the number of civilians killed was comparable with the military lost.

I wonder exactly how many civilian casualties there were in this war--I've read conflicting reports. The USSR probably had the most I'd say.

I've always felt the dropping of the Atom bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki was unecessary and was done more to show the Soviets what we could do to them if we had to than to end the war.

Japan was effectively defeated before the bombs were dropped and was sending out feelers on ways to end the war.

I have always believed the United States forced the war on Japan as a way to get into a war against Germany and racial hatred allowed the bomb to be dropped on two large civilian centers.

I don't know Frogger...the Japanese War Cabinet was pretty beligerent. Even after Nagasaki, the Emperor himself had to intervene and order the surrender, as the WC was showing no signs of doing this. He had to ORDER it done.

Japan also had about 1000 planes and pilots in the wings to use as kamikazes against a landed invasion.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing and it's easy for us now to say we shouldn't have done this, but at the time it was deemed necessary for a quick and effective solution. Don Congdon's book Combat World War II : Pacific Theater of Operations and the chapter "The Great White Light" goes in detail about this topic and shows exactly the arsenal the Japanese had and their mindest to continue fighting to the last man--making the enemy eat stones.

My Dad served in this war, in the US Navy. This decision to drop the A bomb may very well have saved his life and that of countless other American and Allied troops.

I've always felt the dropping of the Atom bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki was unecessary and was done more to show the Soviets what we could do to them if we had to than to end the war.

Japan was effectively defeated before the bombs were dropped and was sending out feelers on ways to end the war.

I have always believed the United States forced the war on Japan as a way to get into a war against Germany and racial hatred allowed the bomb to be dropped on two large civilian centers.

PS. Germany and Italy declared war on US. They could have backed out of their treaty. What was their beef with us?

If anyone showed racial hatred, it was the Axis. My god, look what Japan did to China. Look what Germany did to the USSR against the "subhuman" slavs. Where was the "racial Hatred" during the nonstop bombing of London? Hitler himself said the two countries shared a common cultural background.

And of course, the Japanese considerd the Americans little better than mongrels, fit only for slavery. See Bataan Death March and other atrocities.

Rendova,

I am old enough to remember how the Japanese were viewed during and immediately after the war. They were seen as non-white and therefore somehow less human. Remember the internment camps. They were set up for Japanese Americans. There were no parallel camps for German Americans or Italian Americans.

I believe they were seen as potential enemy combatants and subversives. The Japanese sneak-attacked Pearl Harbor and later Clark Field. Germany and Italy did not sneak attack us.

I believe if they were truly seen as "subhuman" by our gov't there would have been a camp similar to Auschwitz on our soil. This was not done.

I believe they were seen as potential enemy combatants and subversives.

You see nothing racial in the fact that only yellow skinned Americans were seen as such poptential threats as enemy combatants and subversives that they had their businesses confiscated and were placed behind barbed wire in the desert?

It was a tactical move by our military. The camps were on the West Coast and that's where most of the internees came from...this coast would have been most likely where the Japanese would have come in--from the Pacific.

I'm not condoning the camps but I understand why it was done. The Japanese had clearly shown what they were prepared to do to win this war--everything, including attack civilians ( China, Phillipines, etc).

It's also my belief that the US would not have hesitated to drop an A bomb on Germany or even Italy if they had not already surrendered ( and if we had the bomb by then).

Remember the Germans were working on their own A bomb project as were the Japanese. They would not have hesitated to drop it on the likliest target---probably either New York or London.

THANK GOD we got there first.

I have to disagree with you, Rendova.

It was a tactical move by our military. The camps were on the West Coast and that's where most of the internees came from...this coast would have been most likely where the Japanese would have come in--from the Pacific.

I'm not condoning the camps but I understand why it was done. The Japanese had clearly shown what they were prepared to do to win this war--everything, including attack civilians ( China, Phillipines, etc).

These were not Japanese citizens who just happened to be in the United States. They were first, second and even third generation Americans of Japanese ancestry. This was a racial move against the members of the yellow horde within our borders.It's also my belief that the US would not have hesitated to drop an A bomb on Germany or even Italy if they had not already surrendered ( and if we had the bomb by then).

Remember the Germans were working on their own A bomb project as were the Japanese. They would not have hesitated to drop it on the likliest target---probably either New York or London.

This is pure suposition on your part. You are saying as fact something you have no way of knowing.THANK GOD we got there first.

No harm in disagreeing, Frogger. We just have a different interpretation of these events.

I say we would not have hesitated to use the A bomb on Germany or Italy merely because we combined with the Allies had already targeted their cities, ie Dresden fire bomb raid.

PS. There was a mostly Japanese-American regiment of soldiers that fought for our cause, many of these boys having been born in Hawaii. If we were truly racist against the "yellow horde" we never would have allowed these men to serve in our Army to begin with, IMO.

Rendova,

We were racist against blacks yet we allowed blacks to serve in the army. As with the Japanese Americans, they were segregated from white troops and led by white officers. Racism doesn't mean you won't allow people to die for your cause.

As you said, we will have to agree to disagree on this.

No problem--I did take issue with yr statement that the US forced the war against Japan as a way to get back at Germany.

If anything, the Japanese forced the war on the US.
There were many here who were isolationist right up to about 7 AM, Sunday, Dec 7th.---not wanting war with ANYONE.

We'll have to disagree on that too. FDR forced the war on Japan.

Are you saying that FDR knew about the attack on Pearl Harbor in advance and did nothing?
I have a hard time with that theory--very hard.

Keep in mind Roosevelt was Dutch and isolationist, as his constituents wanted him to be. He did not especially care for England or even Churchill.

That's what I'm saying. FDR knew about Pearl Harbor in advance. Did you ever wonder why our most advanced ships just happened to not be at Pearl when the attack occured?

FDR not only knew in advance, he took steps to see that Japan would have little choice but to attack the U.S.. FDR wanted war at any cost.

I used to think that myself, until I did some research and found there was not a single shred of hard evidence to back it up..our carriers were off on an exercise which had been set up weeks in advance to the attack on Pearl.

It's true Churchill would have sold his own mother to get us in the war but I believe FDR was more hard headed than to be Churchill's toady. He had not forgotten how a mere 20 years before we had to save their butt and England had defaulted on that loan to boot. He had no reason to trust England.

If Churchill and FDR DID cook up this Machiavellian plot what in the world did the US stand to gain by such a thing except a long drawn out bloody war with hundreds of thousands of casualties? To just help England out??

It just does not make sense.

If Churchill and FDR DID cook up this Machiavellian plot what in the world did the US stand to gain by such a thing ...

War is one of the quickest ways out of a depression, Rendova.

As Mr Tibbets made military history is there to be a military funeral,or will he be led to rest as a civilian?

We'll have to disagree on that too. FDR forced the war on Japan.


WTF? you really are turning into Shaman.

As Mr Tibbets made military history is there to be a military funeral,or will he be led to rest as a civilian?

In this article (http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/11/01/tibbetts.ap/index.html):
"... Tibbets had requested no funeral and no headstone, fearing it would provide his detractors with a place to protest ... ".

:drinktoth