If we were being 'invaded' by 14 million white PhDs seeking life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness here... we'd welcome them with open arms.
If they had PhDs, they'd be able to get in legally, no matter what color they were, and no one would complain. If we were racists, wouldn't we be complaining about legal Mexicans too?

If we were being 'invaded' by 14 million white PhDs seeking life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness here... we'd welcome them with open arms.


This really does not address the issue. I want to stop illegal immigration regardless of race or education, and most people in my camp feel the same way. Don't get me wrong; I would prefer an educated illegal immigrant versus an uneducated one, but both need to immigrate legally.

SMW, I don't know if you mean to call me , personally, a bigot or hatemonger, but I'd like to say this.

My family's been here for 400 years. In effect, we founded this place. We did not steal land nor give smallpox infected blankets to natives. We bought our land and I have the documentation to prove it.

My family has fought in every war this nation has ever been in--from King Philip's War to the present day. We fought in the Revolution at great personal cost. We fought in the Civil War--Union side--at great personal cost. My own gg grandpa lost his farm because he was off fighting the War and could not pay his taxes on the place.

These wars were fought for FREEDOM and to ensure others of that freedom. And opportunity.

I am not a bigot or hatemonger nor is my family. We are asking for one thing---proper documentation--no matter the color, race, nationality or educational background of the immigrant.

I am really sorry you cannot see that.

I'm sorry, too, Ren. With your family's rich heritage of personal sacrifice for FREEDOM in this country, guess I just can't understand why you're so reluctant to share that freedom with others who suffer in their homeland.

When you make statements like this, They COULD be terrorists, professional criminals, murderers..it boggles the mind.......or, even worse, carriers of some deadly disease. I have no other option than to think you are prejudice against their race.

Paperwork is an important thing, but human lives are much more valuable. Would you have a problem if our govt offered them amnesty? Weeding out the terrorists, professional criminals, murderers first, of course.

SMW

I'm sorry, too, Ren. With your family's rich heritage of personal sacrifice for FREEDOM in this country, guess I just can't understand why you're so reluctant to share that freedom with others who suffer in their homeland.

When you make statements like this, They COULD be terrorists, professional criminals, murderers..it boggles the mind.......or, even worse, carriers of some deadly disease. I have no other option than to think you are prejudice against their race.

Paperwork is an important thing, but human lives are much more valuable. Would you have a problem if our govt offered them amnesty? Weeding out the terrorists, professional criminals, murderers first, of course.

SMW

1. Yes, we sacrificed. What have they sacrificed?

As far as I can see, all the illegals have done is take, and given very little back."Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country." Those are noble words that they should abide by. Yet I see little of that, in all honesty, from these illegals.

2.Yes, they COULD be terrorists, criminals..we don't know. This comment was not directed towards any particular group, nor was my statement about disease. One of the worst carriers of disease --ever--was Typhoid Mary--an IRISH immigrant.

If they had PhDs, they'd be able to get in legally, no matter what color they were, and no one would complain. If we were racists, wouldn't we be complaining about legal Mexicans too?

That's my major concern, DF. If our own govt can't tell which Mexicans are here legally and which are here illegally, how are the rest of us supposed to? Do you think people who absolutely despise illegal Mexicans are able to tell the difference when they're dealing with a LEGAL Mexican-American citizen?

Unfortunately, I think people who hate one segment end up disrespecting the whole race.

.

Paperwork is an important thing, but human lives are much more valuable. Would you have a problem if our govt offered them amnesty? Weeding out the terrorists, professional criminals, murderers first, of course.

SMW

PS Forgot to answer this--yes, I do have a problem with amnesty.
I see this as a slap in the face and an insult to the countless legal immigrants who did it the right way. In effect, this amnesty tells the legalized immigrant citizens that they were stupid to learn our history and customs, and become bona fide citizens. I would like to see the illegals--from ANY country--- either heavily fined or deported. Probably won't happen in my lifetime tho, if ever. ....Just one of the many reasons I despise politicians and politics in general. If the illegals serve a purpose for THEM, the heck with the bonafides.

That's my major concern, DF. If our own govt can't tell which Mexicans are here legally and which are here illegally, how are the rest of us supposed to? Do you think people who absolutely despise illegal Mexicans are able to tell the difference when they're dealing with a LEGAL Mexican-American citizen?

Unfortunately, I think people who hate one segment end up disrespecting the whole race.
OK, that's a valid concern, but I think it's wrong of you to assume that everyone who is against illegal immigration is a racist. I'm not worried, when talking to a Hispanic person, about whether or not they are illegal. I want the government to make it harder for people to come in illegally and harder for them to get a job. I don't want immigrants rounded up and questioned and then deported if they are found to be illegal. You're right that there's no way to do that without racial profiling, which is obviously wrong.

Here are the requirements to become a naturalized US citizen, with full rights.
It is not that hard--yes, it requires some studying and some sacrifice.
What doesn't?


from wikepedia:

Naturalization

A judge swears in a new citizen. New York, 1910A person who was not born a US citizen may acquire US citizenship through a process known as naturalization.


[edit] Eligibility for naturalization
To become a naturalized United States citizen, one must be at least eighteen years of age at the time of filing, a legal permanent resident of the United States, and have had a status of a legal permanent resident in the United States for five years less 90 days before they apply (this requirement is reduced to three years less 90 days if they (a) acquired legal permanent resident status (b) have been married to and living with a citizen for the past three years and (c) the spouse has been a US citizen for at least three years prior to the appicant applying for naturalization.) They must have been physically present for at least 30 months of 60 months prior to the date of filing their application. Also during those 60 months if the legal permanent resident was outside of the U.S. for a continuous period of 6 months or more they are disqualified from naturalizing (certain exceptions apply for those continuous periods of six months to 1 year). They must be a "person of good moral character", and must pass a test on United States history and government.[2][3] Most applicants must also have a working knowledge of the English language.[2] There are exceptions, introduced in 1990, for long-resident older applicants and those with mental or physical disabilities.[4][5]). This requirement for an ability to read, write, and speak English is not an onerous one, since the test requires that applicants read and write simple sentences in English, such as "The United States is a democracy".


[edit] Citizenship test
Applicants for citizenship are asked ten questions, and must answer at least six correctly. U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services has published a list of 96 sample questions (with answers), from which the questions asked are normally drawn. This list includes:

Who elects the President of the United States?
The Electoral College.

How many changes, or amendments, are there to the Constitution?
27.

How many voting members are in the House of Representatives?
435.

Who said, "Give me liberty or give me death"?
Patrick Henry.

Which President was the first Commander in Chief of the U.S. Army and Navy?
George Washington.

Name the amendments that guarantee or address voting rights.
The 15th, the 19th, the 24th, and the 26th.

In what year was the Constitution written?
1787.

How many times may a Senator or Congressperson be reelected?
No limit.

What U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services form is used to apply for naturalized citizenship?
N-400.

What is the most important right granted to United States citizens?
The right to vote.

(U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services)

The full list of questions can be found in the "A Guide to Naturalization" which is available for free from the USCIS.[6]

1. Yes, we sacrificed. What have they sacrificed?

As far as I can see, all the illegals have done is take, and given very little back."Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country." Those are noble words that they should abide by. Yet I see little of that, in all honesty, from these illegals.

2.Yes, they COULD be terrorists, criminals..we don't know. This comment was not directed towards any particular group, nor was my statement about disease. One of the worst carriers of disease --ever--was Typhoid Mary--an IRISH immigrant.

You have no idea what they've sacrificed... and continue to sacrifice every day they live in a country that's hostile to their very existence. Can you imagine how life would be if you couldn't speak the native language where you live? What are their options? Quit working 12 hrs a day to support your family so you can enroll in a class to learn the most difficult language on the planet? How about how hard it must be to live in fear of being 'discovered' and sent back to Mexico? Afraid to call the police if you're robbed? Afraid to go to the hospital if you're sick? What are their options? Give up and sneak back across the border so you can live comfortably among 'your own kind' on dirt roads with no running water or electricity, no jobs and very little law and order.. and where there is no hope for the future of your children?

They sacrifice alright. Maybe not the same way your ancestors did, but life is not easy for them here. That's the main reason they tend to live close to each other and stick mainly to their own culture and traditions. There's safety in numbers.

Future generations of Mexican-Americans will better assimilate into American society. Those who crossed the border looking for a better life for their children may die of old age before they ever 'fit in.' Just like I'm sure many of the original members of your family did when they first came here.

Nice to be able to live in this country as a member of an accepted class of people, isn't it? But chances are none of us would be in this comfy position if our ancestors hadn't lived thru hard times.

I'm going to leave this discussion now, because I've said everything I have to say on the subject. And like those I try to stick up for, I'm a little worn down by all the negative input from people who should know better.

Although I do appreciate the opportunity to state my opinions here so the rest of the world will realize not EVERYONE in this country believes it's time to unplug the light in Lady Liberty's torch.

:)
SMW

Future generations of Mexican-Americans will better assimilate into American society. Those who crossed the border looking for a better life for their children may die of old age before they ever 'fit in.' Just like I'm sure many of the original members of your family did when they first came here.

:)

!. I hope so.
2. Fit in?
We WERE the society. The ones who came later fit in with US. Not the other way around, sorry.

1. Yes, we sacrificed. What have they sacrificed?
BINGO!!!!!!!! Well put, Ren. They're not even willing to put up with our laws, and moreover, they're certainly not gonna sacrifice their language or customs to aid in their assimilation here. And the real kicker is, they've made that fact abundantly clear to the rest of us.

I mean, according to some of 'em, this land is rightfully theirs, right?

http://www.noinvaders.org/images/upsidedown.jpg

http://southdakotapolitics.blogs.com/south_dakota_politics/images/mexicanhomelandca.jpg

You know what I find particularly funny about the lower pic....the fact that they wouldn't want any of our land if we hadn't industrialized it for 'em first.

Bend over and take it in the ass, America - the worthless are here (yet again) to reclaim their "rightful" property. :rolleyes:

That makes you hypocrites as well as bigots, racists and hatemongers.

That is the second time you have called me bigot, racist and hatemonger. The only difference is you have now added hypocrite to the list of ad hominems.

You are truely pathetic, SMW if the only way you can discuss the issue is by name calling. Your use of ad hominems shows you don't have a logical leg to stand on and know it. Since you can't discuss the issue rationally you resort to calling people names.

If I were a bigot or a racist I would have a difficult time at family gatherings. I would not be able to talk to Janice, Brian, Nicole or Justin comfortably because the four of them, while my cousins are also Black. I would not be able to talk to my Aunt Connie or Cousins Larry, Michael, Michael, or Jason because they are all Jewish. I would have an even harder time talking to my youngest brother's girl friend since she is a Muslim who was born in Turkey.

If I were a racist or bigot I would want all Mexicans and only Mexicans deported. That is not what I have stated or suggested. I want all ILLEGALS deported, not only the Mexican or other Latin American illegals, but the English, Irish, German, French, Canadian, Haitian illegals and illegals from every other country. I have no problem with people who are here legally, either with Green Cards, student visas, or as newly minted citizens. They are all welcome no matter where they come from.

If I was a hate monger I would be suggesting that we beat or kill all those Mexicans you seem so intent on allowing to come into our country illegally rather than simply wanting those who are not legally here deported.

If I were a hypocrite I would be posting more like you are, wanting benefits, including free health care for Mexicans who are here illegally while wanting to deny it to American citizens. Yes, SMW, one of us is a hypocrite. Why not let the rest of the posters vote on which of us it is, me who wants all illegals, no matter their country of origin deported or you who wants to give free medical care to Mexicans who are in this country illegally while denying it to American citizens.

There is a short poem I used to teach my students.

Be careful how you use proud words.
You cannot take them back.
They wear long boot, hard boots.
They walk off proud.
They cannot hear you calling.
Be careful how you use proud words.

You have been very loose with your use of words, calling anyone and everyone who disagrees with you hypocrite, bigot, racist and hatemonger.

Be careful how you use proud words, SMW. Sometimes they turn around and bite you in the ass.

You have no idea what they've sacrificed... and continue to sacrifice every day they live in a country that's hostile to their very existence. Can you imagine how life would be if you couldn't speak the native language where you live? What are their options? Quit working 12 hrs a day to support your family so you can enroll in a class to learn the most difficult language on the planet?
Sounds to me like they need to get the fuck outta Dodge, and go back to where they made some "real" sacrifices for a shit life.

BTW, Finnish is the hardest language in the world.

You have no idea what they've sacrificed... and continue to sacrifice every day they live in a country that's hostile to their very existence.

That's because they've broken our laws to live here. That you equate rendova's family's dedication and sacrifice to our country with the blatant lack (hell, REFUSAL) of dedication to this country exhibited by many illegals, is just one more example of your extremely twisted view of things.

Can you imagine how life would be if you couldn't speak the native language where you live?

Oh, but they can learn the language. Who's stopping them? But, I suppose when they've got people like you who defend their "right" to break our laws AND offer not knowing our native language as an excuse for all the difficulties that such a non-English speaking life entails, there's no real need, huh? What a friend they have in YOU!

What are their options?

Uhhhh.... stay home? Don't break our laws? Learn the language before you come here to live?

How about how hard it must be to live in fear of being 'discovered' and sent back to Mexico?

The simple solution is to not come here illegally - that way there's no need to fear being discovered and deported.

What are their options? Give up and sneak back across the border so you can live comfortably among 'your own kind' on dirt roads with no running water or electricity, no jobs and very little law and order.. and where there is no hope for the future of your children?

Their option is to go through the immigration process properly and legally.

They sacrifice alright. Maybe not the same way your ancestors did, but life is not easy for them here.

Life is tough everywhere, SMW. I should cut people slack when they knowingly and repeatedly spit in the face of our laws? When they demand rights they haven't earned or deserve? When they fly our flag upside-down and insist on singing our national anthem in some other language? When they refuse to learn our language? When their lifestyle costs me money? I don't think so.

That's the main reason they tend to live close to each other and stick mainly to their own culture and traditions. There's safety in numbers.

If they feel unsafe, they should go back where they came from - plenty of people there to share their culture, language, and traditions.

Those who crossed the border looking for a better life for their children may die of old age before they ever 'fit in.'

Learning the language would be a start. Oh, but it's so HAAARRRDD!!

Just like I'm sure many of the original members of your family did when they first came here.

My mother's parents immigrated legally (Dad's family showed up with the Massachusetts Bay Colony). They learned and respected our laws, our form of government, our language. They didn't come here expecting Americans to change their way of living to accommodate them. They were, in fact, anxious to assimilate - made life a lot easier, and they were proud to be here; hell, grateful!

I'm going to leave this discussion now, because I've said everything I have to say on the subject.

And because your position is indefensible, twist and turn it as you may.

I'm a little worn down by all the negative input from people who should know better.

Perhaps it's time to consider that you're the one that should know better.

not EVERYONE in this country believes it's time to unplug the light in Lady Liberty's torch.

Who said anything about stopping legal immigration? This is about ILLEGAL ENTRY INTO THIS COUNTRY, and the harm those illegals can and do do to us. Get a clue.

Nice to be able to live in this country as a member of an accepted class of people, isn't it? But chances are none of us would be in this comfy position if our ancestors hadn't lived thru hard times.
Or, ya know, if they hadn't pitched in and built the country from the ground up as ONE nation with common goals, feelings, and desires. :rolleyes:
I'm going to leave this discussion now, because I've said everything I have to say on the subject. And like those I try to stick up for, I'm a little worn down by all the negative input from people who should know better.
Oh, cry me a river, you poor, abused, soul. You and your illegal sisters can blow me. You want "negative input"? Look at the pictures I posted up thread.

We're the ones being used, abused, and shit on here - not them. They're here to make their lives "better", remember!? Therein lies the kicker.

Our ancestors built this country, yet they're here to "reclaim" the land (and ostensibly, all the business we've created) in 2007. How convenient for them, indeed. :mad:
Although I do appreciate the opportunity to state my opinions here so the rest of the world will realize not EVERYONE in this country believes it's time to unplug the light in Lady Liberty's torch.
You're retarded. (Sorry, Vile, but I couldn't think of a better word) There's simply no other explanation. I, for the life of me, don't understand (nor could I ever possibly fathom) how someone could be so obtuse. It's absolutely MIND-BLOWING.

!



.












(Dad's family showed up with the Massachusetts Bay Colony).



.

Hey, cousin.:)

Prae--that upside down flag?
Hah, they are messing with the wrong people. Everyone knows how sucky, mean, and bigoted the ex-Puritans are.

Hey, cousin.:)

:) Say, I meant to get back to you ages ago about that whole Mass. Bay Colony thing. Dad tells me our direct ancestors included the following names:

Brackney, Bradstreet, Davis, Deighton, Dudley, Loffburrow, Thorne, Wade (and others back to William The Conqueror).

I agree with SMW that most illegals are probably trying their best to learn the language and assimilate. And I also agree that it is very difficult. Most of my ancestors came here within the last 150 years or so, from Ireland, Sweden, and Italy, and I'm fairly sure that the first generation did not assimilate entirely. My great-grandmother, who came here when she was 5, became "fully American", but her mother rarely left the home and spoke only broken English until she died, although she didn't want her children speaking Italian more than English. It was the same with my great-grandfather's parents, who were from Sweden. The Irish ones probably already spoke at least a little English but I'm sure they had trouble fitting in too.

My mother's parents immigrated legally (Dad's family showed up with the Massachusetts Bay Colony). They learned and respected our laws, our form of government, our language. They didn't come here expecting Americans to change their way of living to accommodate them. They were, in fact, anxious to assimilate - made life a lot easier, and they were proud to be here; hell, grateful!
The point you just made here is key. I don't see them doing this at all, actually. It was a point of pride for my ancestors to do the same thing, Frannie - for I'd heard stories as a child of the German side of my family absolutely REFUSING to speak German because they were NOW living in America. As you so aptly put it above, they were anxious to assimilate.

A surprising number of these people could give a shit. I get the distinct impression that, according to the protesters above, we "owe" 'em for not letting THE MEXICANS (of ALL people) turn California into the 6th or 7th LARGEST economy in the world. :rolleyes:
Get a clue.
At this point in time, I'm convinced that'll never happen.

I have a totally different feeling towards her now; she's an enemy of this country and it's sovereignty.

Prae, most first generation immigrants who are over a certain age can never lose their accent or some of their customs. It's great that some people can, but I don't think we should require people to be completely assimilated.

Can I butt in and ask a stupid question.

Is is true or false, that Mexicans are issued 'temporary visa's' on a favourable basis because they are a neighbouring country?

I agree with SMW that most illegals are probably trying their best to learn the language and assimilate.
I disagree. On the basis of the fact that these people are "illegal" in the first place. Their entitlement mentality is endemic.

In all honesty, expecting something for nothing is OFFENSIVELY un-American, IMO. If that's what they really want, then I'd suggest moving to Venezuela.
And I also agree that it is very difficult.
Sure it's difficult, but you do it anyway. A good first step is to follow the rules.

We'll deal with the fact they can't speak our language later.
...but I don't think we should require people to be completely assimilated.
Neither do I. I just wanna see 'em try for a change. You can't possibly fathom how many (legal or not, I have NO idea) Mexican people I see (on a daily basis, no less) that could give a shit either way about assimilating. In their defense, how can I blame 'em? We cater to their every need gratis, and frown upon those who are pissed about the fact that we're taking it up the ass with a fucking smile on our face.

In short, they've got it MADE in this country. And I mean like no other group of people to ever grace our shores with their presence, M-A-D-E.

Prae, most first generation immigrants who are over a certain age can never lose their accent or some of their customs. It's great that some people can, but I don't think we should require people to be completely assimilated.


Your right df. I myself like the differences in people from other countries- their accents and customs, that's why NYC is so great. And oh, I can imagine the hits I'll take for that remark from the people that hate NYC. Completely assimilated America, uh uh, it would not be America then.

Can I butt in and ask a stupid question.

Is is true or false, that Mexicans are issued 'temporary visa's' on a favourable basis because they are a neighbouring country?
Off hand, I don't know, Paul. You should try Googling it.

Off hand, I don't know, Paul. You should try Googling it.
I will do that. What gov dept handles visa's?

I will do that. What gov dept handles visa's?
:confused: If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say the State Dept.

Oddly enough, it was the Department of Justice.

But theyve moved-their now the USCIS.

Checked thru page after page of zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Im sorry I asked now.

Checked thru page after page of zzzzzzzzzzzzzz
LOL - that'll happen when it's MY government you're talking about.

Pulled this off wikki:
''Mexicans holding a 10 year Border Crossing Card also do not require a visa to enter the United States''

That's fine. Those people are here "legally", per se. I don't have any problem with that.

At least when the card-carrying Mexican in question crosses our border, we know they're here, and we know who they are.

Or, ya know, if they hadn't pitched in and built the country from the ground up as ONE nation with common goals, feelings, and desires. :rolleyes:When is it that you contend that this singular nation, united by "common goals, feelings and desires," was built? And what nation was that?

That's a little cryptic. I guess what I'm asking is, what's behind your question?

Just wondering if you were mistakenly refering to the good ol' USA.

Oh, and what country would I be referring to, Shiloh, if not America?

Can you imagine how life would be if you couldn't speak the native language where you live?

They shouldn't have any problem speaking the native language where they live, SMW, because they should be living in Mexico.

Oh, and what country would I be referring to, Shiloh, if not America?I have no idea which country you might be refering to. But your description certainly does not fit the USA, historically or at present.

That's fine. Those people are here "legally", per se. I don't have any problem with that.

At least when the card-carrying Mexican in question crosses our border, we know they're here, and we know who they are.
Yeah it is fine granted, I was establishing that Mexicans are 'favoured' against other races's because they are neighbours.

Yeah it is fine granted, I was establishing that Mexicans are 'favoured' against other races's because they are neighbours.
I believe the Canadians are given the same benefit. At least, I think they're issued something similar, but I'm not 100% certain, so don't quote me on that.

I was reading you guys were having a few problems at O'Hare this week lad.

Oh, and what country would I be referring to, Shiloh, if not America?
Nazi Germany?

I was reading you guys were having a few problems at O'Hare this week lad.
Yeah, we did. Authorities arrested 23 illegal aliens (big fuckin' surprise there), who now face state felony charges for possession of fraudulent state identification. They now get to stay, on our dime, no less, in prison. Now you tell me - how do you think that shit sandwich tastes!? Oh, well - doesn't matter.....bite up, America.

In addition, two employees of Ideal Staffing Solutions, an employment agency in Bensenville (that's northside Chicago, in case you were wondering), have been charged with federal crimes and were scheduled to appear in court late Thursday afternoon. In short, they're really screwed, but that's government for ya. All told, their MO is as follows: 'as long as we penalize businesses for hiring illegals, then we're exonerated'. The kicker is, most legitimate businesses can't verify the information given, and most (if not all) REPORT IT TO THE GOVERNMENT ANYWAY. In short, private industry is a perfect sacrificial lamb when it's our government and politicians that are to blame.

The thing is, even tho it was illegals caught out, it could just as easy have been a subversive gaining access to sensitive areas of a very busy airport.

The thing is, even tho it was illegals caught out, it could just as easy have been a subversive gaining access to sensitive areas of a very busy airport.

Give that man a cigar!!

Those who support and/or protect illegal aliens just don't get it. Glad someone out there is paying attention! :)

The thing is, even tho it was illegals caught out, it could just as easy have been a subversive gaining access to sensitive areas of a very busy airport.
True enough, I suppose.

Good job, paul. That's exactly right.

Gee thanks-dont kill yourself now.

Illegals being caught is one thing, a breech of what could be National Security is another.

This is my main concern with illegals, the fact they can move live you name it,
at will, proves to me that Homeland Security are tackling a thankless job.

As their watchen the front door, everyone who wants in is using the backdoor.

Fucken pointless exercise.

Shit.

Post 246 was addressed to my Chicago correspondant.

Sorry DF.

That's alright Paul. And you are absolutely right about the "front door/back door" thing. If millions of Mexicans can get across our border, anyone else who wants to can too!

That's alright Paul. And you are absolutely right about the "front door/back door" thing. If millions of Mexicans can get across our border, anyone else who wants to can too!
I was saying sorry in case you thought I was saying ''gee thanks-dont kill yourself'', to you.

If ya know what I mean hehe.

Fresh off todays news..
The pansy ass amnesty idiots found another barbecued taco near the border. I think that brings the number at the fiesta to 9

Fresh off todays news..
The pansy ass amnesty idiots found another barbecued taco near the border. I think that brings the number at the fiesta to 9Where were you when SMW was calling people racist hate mongers?