But it's a sad day in this country when you decide it's OK to pick and choose which people to have compassion for... and which to ship back to where they came from. The sign on the Statue of Liberty doesn't say one word about filling out the proper paperwork. If you're so passionate about keeping hard-working family people out of our country, you should start a petition to get that sign altered.

It's also a sad day when someone who professes to love America sooooo much thinks it's ok to pick and choose which people should have access to basic healthcare - folks like you, SMW, who would deny poor uninsured citizens medical help in favor of giving it to illegal immigrants. If you're so passionate about keeping hard-working family people who are here illegally happy and healthy, maybe you should add them as dependants on your own health insurance plan.

:rolleyes:

Ooh, better yet! Those charities you always go on about can foot the medical care for millions of illegal immigrants, too! Why don't you call them up?

:thumbs:

Ooh, better yet! Those charities you always go on about can foot the medical care for millions of illegal immigrants, too! Why don't you call them up?

:thumbs:
That was actually pretty funny, Fran. :)

That was actually pretty funny, Fran. :)

Yeah, you can always count on Frannie to be funny. Especially when she's run out of ridiculous insinuations that have nothing to do with the issue being discussed.

She's a regular laugh-riot.

:lolhit:
SMW

No, I'm not of Mexican heritage. No, I don't have any close friends who are Mexicans. No, I've never been married to or involved with a Mexican man. No, I don't socialize with Mexicans. No, I don't have Mexican neighbors....
You just got through telling us in no uncertain terms, "I have insight into how Mexicans fit in because I live among them". :rolleyes: Cognitive dissonance, much???

That aside, your take on this is truly pathetic, SMW. Truth be told, you're so goddamned confused, I don't think you know whether to scratch your watch or wind your ass. I mean, witnessing your (rather verbose) argument unfold was like watching a team of Amputees play Field Hockey: it was full-on pathetic with a side of disgusting, and moreover, by the very nature of the game, no one wins.

In the future, if you're gonna say something that freaking ignorant, then do me a favor - fake a stroke first.

Dictated but not read.

- The Hatemongering, Racist, Bigot

P.S. Since we're into slapping arbitrarily generated bullshit labels on people, can I start referring to you as my fat Internet tart from now on? Surely, you won't mind.

You just got through telling us in no uncertain terms, "I have insight into how Mexicans fit in because I live among them". :rolleyes: Cognitive dissonance, much???

That aside, your take on this is truly pathetic, SMW. Truth be told, you're so goddamned confused, I don't think you know whether to scratch your watch or wind your ass. I mean, witnessing your (rather verbose) argument unfold was like watching a team of Amputees play Field Hockey: it was full-on pathetic with a side of disgusting, and moreover, by the very nature of the game, no one wins.

In the future, if you're gonna say something that freaking ignorant, then do me a favor - fake a stroke first.

Dictated but not read.

- The Hatemongering, Racist, Bigot

P.S. Since we're into slapping arbitrarily generated bullshit labels on people, can I start referring to you as my fat Internet tart from now on? Surely, you won't mind.

Geesh, you get downright nasty when you don't have anything intelligent to add to a conversation, don't you, Prae. You and Frannie both have that in common.

FYI, my neighbors on the left side of me are black. On the right side of me, they're white... although they are Mormons, so that must count for something. Across the street, there's a black family who've been there for over 20 years. On each side of them are gay men... oh wait, gay WHITE men. The same demographics runs pretty much through my entire neighborhood, blacks... whites... gays... houses are custom-built single-family homes, erected in the early 60's. Many of the residents have lived there since the houses were new. There is ONE mexican family that I know of who lives at the end of my street.

Less than a mile from my house, there are predominately Mexican NEIGHBORHOODS where at least 99% of the residents are Mexicans. There are also TWO brand spanking NEW housing development which are entirely populated by Mexicans. (and every house has been sold, I might add)

And here's a kicker for you... less than a mile from my house IN THE OTHER DIRECTION, is a huge apt complex that's also been around since the 60's and nearly all the residents there are black.

You can disagree with my opinions on the issue all you want, but don't call me a liar, dear. I have way better things to do than make up stories to fill your pretty little head.

SMW

Zip code skinny... this is the demographics in my zip code. NOT the street I live on, people. My ZIP CODE:

Race
Hispanic/Latino: 45.8%
White*: 13.5%
Black*: 39.5%
Native American*: 0%
Asian*: 0.2%
Hawaiian/Pacific Islander*: 0%
Other*: 0.1%
Multiracial*: 0.7%
* Does not include individuals
in this racial group
who identify as Hispanic/Latino.

Would you like to compare YOURS?

http://www.zipskinny.com/

I understand totally these peoples legal status-but that has nothing to do with giving them medical treatment.

I dont understand why people are making the connection.

Paul, not one single person has used their legal vs illegal status to deny them medical treatment. Every single poster has said they should be treated. Why do you keep making the same untrue claim?

As for the posters criminalizing the burn victims, no poster has done that. They criminalized themselves when they illegally entered the country.

Paul, not one single person has used their legal vs illegal status to deny them medical treatment. Every single poster has said they should be treated. Why do you keep making the same untrue claim?

As for the posters criminalizing the burn victims, no poster has done that. They criminalized themselves when they illegally entered the country.

Maybe because YOU started this thread to point out that fact, Frogger?

Those bad ole illegals are getting medical care... that's the message you're sending out! If that's not what you intended... then what were your intentions when you saw that story and started this discussion?

:confused:

Paul, not one single person has used their legal vs illegal status to deny them medical treatment. Every single poster has said they should be treated. Why do you keep making the same untrue claim?
Frogger,why was these peoples plight highlighted,because of their legal status.

As for the posters criminalizing the burn victims, no poster has done that. They criminalized themselves when they illegally entered the country.That is correct.

Maybe because YOU started this thread to point out that fact, Frogger?

Those bad ole illegals are getting medical care... that's the message you're sending out! If that's not what you intended... then what were your intentions when you saw that story and started this discussion?

:confused:

My point in starting this thread was to give yet another example of how illegal aliens are costing the taxpayers money. This is just one example of the ways in which illegal aliens use services for which they do not pay. They get free medical treatment not just in this instance which is a specific tragedy but in all instances. Every time I or another paying patient goes to a hospital in New York we pay a premium who's sole purpose is to pay for those who do not pay for their own treatment. They use the school systems without paying taxes for those schools. They get free lunch. They tax the schools by necessitating programs that would not be needed were there not so many illegal aliens. They cost far more than they adds to the economy and maybe you have no problem with this but I do.

My point in starting this thread was to give yet another example of how illegal aliens are costing the taxpayers money. This is just one example of the ways in which illegal aliens use services for which they do not pay. They get free medical treatment not just in this instance which is a specific tragedy but in all instances. Every time I or another paying patient goes to a hospital in New York we pay a premium who's sole purpose is to pay for those who do not pay for their own treatment. They use the school systems without paying taxes for those schools. They get free lunch. They tax the schools by necessitating programs that would not be needed were there not so many illegal aliens. They cost far more than they adds to the economy and maybe you have no problem with this but I do.

Yeah, poor us, eh? Probably wasn't necessary to use an example to prove how worthless and burdensome these people are. Seems most of the population here believes that already.

Think you'll have to curtail any of your trips this year due to all that cash coming right outta your pocket? I'm thinking Frannie might have to sell a fancy chicken or two to manage. Pretty sure at least half of Ren's kids are going hungry as we speak. And Prae? He'll just have to get an extra gig stripping at LeBare. Tips aren't taxable, ya know?

:lolhit:

My kids aren't going hungry, but my oldest daughter, who has recently begun a University teaching job, is struggling to make her insurance premiums on top of her other bills including student loans. She's a penny pincher like me, not wasteful, a genuine American citizen, and is wondering what kind of Social Security check she'll recieve down the road. At the rate this is going, she will recieve zero--yet she's paying in.

There are cases right here in neighboring Marion County, Indiana, in which longtime hardworkers, college educated, not wasteful, are being taxed out of their homes because of the massive increases in property taxes.

Links upon request.

If illegals were given the oppertunity to pay medical insurance,surely theyd pay it.

If illegals were given the oppertunity to pay medical insurance,surely theyd pay it.

Paul, if they'd wanted to do that, they'd have become legal citizens to begin with.

How many trips I take is not germane to the discussion. In fact, I just got back for a three day mini-vacation this afternoon. It is not a question of how many trips I take or how much I spend at restaurants, or on clothing or cars or anything else. It is a question of my money being taken from me to support someone who is here illegally.

I read the demographic on your zip code. Here is the demographic on the zip code where I lived for almost forty years and taught for thirty eight. Notice the number of Hispanics.

General Characteristics Number Percent U.S.
Total population 51,485 00.0 100%
Male 25,838 50.2 49.1%
Female 25,647 49.8 50.9%
Median Age 31.0 (X) 35.3
Under 5 years 4,112 8.0 6.8%
18 years and over 36,075 70.1 74.3%
65 years and over 4,129 8.0 12.4%
One race 48,419 94.0 97.6%
White 24,801 48.2 75.1%
Black or African American 9,496 18.4 12.3%
American Indian and 299 0.6 0.9%
Alaska Native
Asian 1,040 2.0 3.6%
Native Hawaiian and 57 0. 1 0 .1%
Other Pacific Islander
Some other race 12,726 24.7 5.5%
Two or more races 3,066 6.0 2.4%
Hispanic or Latino 27,349 53.1 12.5%


There is a greater percentage of Hispanics, many Mexican, Guatemalan, Salvadoran or other Central American although the majority are legal Puerto Ricans. At least ten percent of the population is in the town illegally.

Frogger, what does it matter how we spend our extra money anyway?
We're legal citizens, we can spend it any way we see fit.
No one likes being FORCED to support a swarm of illegal freeloaders.

Paul, if they'd wanted to do that, they'd have become legal citizens to begin with.Let me ask you then.If these people were to apply thru the proper channels,what would be the chances of them being accepted.

ie

No skills
No qualifications
No money

Their chances are about the same as they'd be in Ireland, paul.

The US is not the world's doormat.

Here's a thought--maybe they could petition their OWN government to take care of them. Can not they do this?
It's been done before.

Zip code skinny... this is the demographics in my zip code. NOT the street I live on, people. My ZIP CODE:

Race
Hispanic/Latino: 45.8%
White*: 13.5%
Black*: 39.5%
Native American*: 0%
Asian*: 0.2%
Hawaiian/Pacific Islander*: 0%
Other*: 0.1%
Multiracial*: 0.7%
* Does not include individuals
in this racial group
who identify as Hispanic/Latino.

Would you like to compare YOURS?

http://www.zipskinny.com/
You shouldn't show that information to anyone. On that note, maybe you should entertain the idea of selling your home to one of those "prosperous", tax-paying Mexicans (who you think happen to represent the majority of their population), and move to a town where you only run a 1 in 6 chance of being stabbed, raped, or robbed at any given time.

Their chances are about the same as they'd be in Ireland, paul.Hmm,slightly different,as Ireland has more than enough Eastern Europeans coming here,with the extension of the EU.

I'll take it these people would be refused 'immigration status',thus they sneek in. Yet nearly all find work..

Do you think its time the law was reviewed?

Paul, their chances would be low and rightfully so. What are the reasons the United States accepts people who petition to become citizens?

(A) It is to add people to our population who have skills that we would find useful?

(B) It is to help people who would be persecuted and possibly killed if we didn't accept them?

(C) It is to act as a dumping ground for people who's own governments don't give a damn about them?

The correct choices are A and B. It is not the responsibility of the United States to act as some sort of reception center for all those in the world who feel they don't earn enough money at home.

Any country that wishes to accept some of our illegal aliens is free to do so. If they do they will have a right to discuss the matter of how we react to people illegally crossing our borders with us. Until and unless they accept their share of our illegal aliens they have no right to act so high and mighty.

Do you think its time the law was reviewed?

No, just enforced, like it was at Ellis Island back in the day.

People are under the impression that we've always let boatlaods of low skilled people in who were penniless, sick, insane, criminals etc.

Not true.

Yes Frogger I know the policy, what Im saying is,

people become illegals mostly because they would not fufill the criteria for legal status,

yet they all find jobs in the United States,wouldnt you say that there is something not right about that.

They ALL find jobs?

I am disputing that.

No, just enforced, like it was at Ellis Island back in the day.

People are under the impression that we've always let boatlaods of low skilled people in who were penniless, sick, insane, criminals etc.

Not true.Hm,surely this is just the next influx to recieve discrimination,only they cant turn the boats away this time.

As you well know,Irish recieved discrimination and had the door shut to them,yet were able to 'walk in' from Canada,before everything was documented granted,isnt history repeating itself.

So long as there are American citizens who do not have work these jobs should go to them and not to illegals. Illegals and their apologist falsely assert that they take only jobs that legal American citizens will not take. This is not true. When a chicken processing plant recently got rid of its illegal workers and advertised the open positions there were about ten applicants for every job opening.

Illegals artificially depress the wages being paid for certain jobs thereby making them less attractive for legal citizens. I don't know about others but I would be willing to pay more to legal citizens if it meant getting rid of the illegals. Hire Americans to do the landscaping and pay them at least minimum wage. Hire Americans to wash the dishes and pay them at least minimum wage. Hire Americans to bus restaurant tables and pay them at least minimum wage. Hire Americans to pick the crops and pay them at least minimum wage.

If it cost the consumer a bit more so be it. Take care of Americans first and let the mother countries of the illegals take care of their own citizens.

They ALL find jobs?

I am disputing that.OK,you disputing it is fine with me,you have first hand experience I dont.

Illegals cannot recieve welfare cheques,isnt that correct.

As far as I can see,the only 2 other options to survive would be,living off their relations who do work,or resorting to crime.

Paul, that is not correct.
The Irish were not discriminated against merely because they were Irish.
As with any immigrant, they had to prove they were


A a potential useful citizen
b. not sick with communicable disease
C. had a job lined up, poor paying as that may have been

You know, wer're really not as bad as people think, despite what you may have heard, nor is our history. I challenge you to find any other country which has as fair an immigration policy as did we--or still do.

OK,you disputing it is fine with me,you have first hand experience I dont.

Illegals cannot recieve welfare cheques,isnt that correct.

As far as I can see,the only 2 other options to survive would be,living off their relations who do work,or resorting to crime.

They may get welfare--depending on how good their forged papers look. Their kids get free food via lunch programs, etc--a HUGE tax burden on us, free schooling, all that other good stuff.

So long as there are American citizens who do not have work these jobs should go to them and not to illegals. Illegals and their apologist falsely assert that they take only jobs that legal American citizens will not take. This is not true. When a chicken processing plant recently got rid of its illegal workers and advertised the open positions there were about ten applicants for every job opening.

Illegals artificially depress the wages being paid for certain jobs thereby making them less attractive for legal citizens. I don't know about others but I would be willing to pay more to legal citizens if it meant getting rid of the illegals. Hire Americans to do the landscaping and pay them at least minimum wage. Hire Americans to wash the dishes and pay them at least minimum wage. Hire Americans to bus restaurant tables and pay them at least minimum wage. Hire Americans to pick the crops and pay them at least minimum wage.

If it cost the consumer a bit more so be it. Take care of Americans first and let the mother countries of the illegals take care of their own citizens.
I would agree,these jobs should go to,low or non skilled Americans,tho as I said elsewhere,in America,and Europe,the unemployed refuse to uproot and move to areas were workers are in short demand.
They refuse to work for the same wage per hour as immigrants ill work for
They refuse to do menial work,the EU tackled this by expanding the Union.

Let me ask you then.If these people were to apply thru the proper channels,what would be the chances of them being accepted.

ie

No skills
No qualifications
No money
Like that's our problem. :rolleyes: Wait in line like everyone else. If you don't like the system, then too bad, it's OUR system, and it exists to protect us. If I don't like driving 35 (in a posted zone), it doesn't entitle me to traveling at 75 because it makes MY life easier. Laws exist for a reason. If you get caught, you pay the price, but apparently, not when you're a Mexican. If you're one of those guys, then hell, you don't even need a license OR insurance to operate a motor vehicle on "public" roadways. Crash away, Paco - we'll pay for it (and provide you with free medical care while we're at it, no less).

Americans spend over $53 BILLION dollars a year in haircare products & services.

Americans spent nearly $2.025 billion on Halloween candy this year.

Americans spend $2 billion a year on dental products -- toothpaste, mouthwash and dental floss.

My point is not that we should curtail our personal spending to cover the costs of providing basic human services for undocumented persons. Obviously, none of us have. My point is, even though they may be an expensive burden, like Frannie pointed out... we're a rich nation. And supposedly a humanitarian nation.

Nobody is willing to do anything drastic to change the fact that they are here and will continue to come here as long as living conditions are so terrible in their homeland.

Therefore all the bitching and moaning about how much they cost us is a moot point. We're not prepared to deport them... even once they're 'discovered'. And just as obviously, we're not going to let them get burned fighting our fires and leave them on the street to die.

I admit I don't know the answer. But sitting around wringing ones hands about it isn't helping anyone. And is doing alot of harm to alot of innocent hardworking people who DO pay their taxes. Also, IMHO, making alot of Americans look like money-grubbing tightwads who believe cash is more important than human lives.

That's just my personal opinion, folks. And since I'm not running for office next year, so I feel fairly free to state it publicly. Just as you're free to disagree.

;)
SMW

Paul, that is not correct.
The Irish were not discriminated against merely because they were Irish.
As with any immigrant, they had to prove they were


A a potential useful citizen
b. not sick with communicable disease
C. had a job lined up, poor paying as that may have been

You know, wer're really not as bad as people think, despite what you may have heard, nor is our history. I challenge you to find any other country which has as fair an immigration policy as did we--or still do.


Ren,you are right,that Irish were not discriminated against because they were Irish,in so much as they were discriminated against because the powers that be,were alarmed by millions of Catholics entering the United States,tho somewhat off topic,I see a clear distinction with millions of Latinos entering the United States today, overwhelmingly Catholic.

At the height of Irish Immigration,mid 19th century,America wanted people,didnt matter if they had a job waiting or not.

Irish immigrants with disese,were quarantined, werent they.

Like that's our problem. :rolleyes: Wait in line like everyone else. If you don't like the system, then too bad, it's OUR system, and it exists to protect us. If I don't like driving 35 (in a posted zone), it doesn't entitle me to traveling at 75 because it makes MY life easier. Laws exist for a reason. If you get caught, you pay the price, but apparently, not when you're a Mexican. If you're one of those guys, then hell, you don't even need a license OR insurance to operate a motor vehicle on "public" roadways. Crash away, Paco - we'll pay for it (and provide you with free medical care while we're at it, no less).
Yes obviously US laws are made to protect Americans.
What Im saying is,that small fact dosent bother people sneeking into the US.

Paul Maryland was a Catholic colony. People here aren't as prejudiced against religion as you may think. We were founded upon such principles--religious toleration. This is not England for god's sakes.

The Latino's faith has NOTHING to do with this argument.

SMW, I disagree that nothing is being done and we're sitting on our hands.

There is a HUGE backlash against this and it is getting stronger and more powerful every day. We want action now--no, we wanted it yesterday. communities across the country are up in arms over this as they see their coffers emptying. unfortunately, Some courts are ruling against the various laws these communities are trying to implement.

I say, get different courts...or I do foresee bloodshed.

Wars are fought for 2 things--taxes and land.

Paul Maryland was a Catholic colony. People here aren't as prejudiced against religion as you may think. We were founded upon such principles--religious toleration. This is not England for god's sakes.

The Latino's faith has NOTHING to do with this argument.
Im not trying to suggest the American public are anti catholic,but you have to admit there are comparissions.

And every new ethnic wave faces hostility until they have amalgamated.

Yes, there was some hostility--I'm not disputing that.
but as the immigrants became LEGAL citizens, learned our customs, paid into this place their fair share...they became accepted.

I do not see the Latinos doing this.

You shouldn't show that information to anyone. On that note, maybe you should entertain the idea of selling your home to one of those "prosperous", tax-paying Mexicans (who you think happen to represent the majority of their population), and move to a town where you only run a 1 in 6 chance of being stabbed, raped, or robbed at any given time.

If you don't mind, Prae... I'll stay right where I am. Dallas, like any other big city, has 'pocket neighborhoods' within the city limits. That's what my neighborhood is. I get a crimewatch newsletter every month and can tell you, no one has been stabbed or raped EVER to my knowledge. And that goes for being robbed in your home, as well. Now if you wanna talk about burglaries and vandalism... yeah, it exists. Can't very well run away from that.

LOL, reminds me of the 'rumor' that went around town when the commuter train started running from my area to the 'rich' side of town. People at the other end grumbled, "Yeah, now they've got a train so they can ride over here, steal a car, and drive back." Like Bugs Bunny said... MMmmmmmm, could be, doc!

:lolhit:
SMW

Yes, there was some hostility--I'm not disputing that.
but as the immigrants became LEGAL citizens, learned our customs, paid into this place their fair share...they became accepted.

I do not see the Latinos doing this.
Yes there does seem to be the added element of Latinos,especially Mexicans,of not wanting to become well American,which dosent help their cause whatsoever.

In fact I cant think of any other time in post colonial America were this was the case.

Yes, there was some hostility--I'm not disputing that.
but as the immigrants became LEGAL citizens, learned our customs, paid into this place their fair share...they became accepted.

I do not see the Latinos doing this.

PS I also don't recall any incidents of the new immigrants of days gone by demanding various handouts and tearing down our flag, as has happened at various schools here in the Southwest.
God, that burns my butt when I see that.
Have they ever heard, "When in rome do as the romans do"???


Obviously not--terrible manners. Terrible.

Yes there does seem to be the added element of Latinos,especially Mexicans,of not wanting to become well American,which dosent help their cause whatsoever.

In fact I cant think of any other time in post colonial America were this was the case.

Well paul at least you're trying to see things from the average american joe's point of view.
my hat is off to you for that. :)

Im not trying to suggest the American public are anti catholic,but you have to admit there are comparissions.


I guess you haven't been reading Foolsworthy's posts. There are some Americans who are vehemently anti-Roman Catholic.

PS I also don't recall any incidents of the new immigrants of days gone by demanding various handouts and tearing down our flag, as has happened at various schools here in the Southwest.
God, that burns my butt when I see that.
Have they ever heard, "When in rome do as the romans do"???


Obviously not--terrible manners. Terrible.
Yes Ren,believe it or not,I have heard this,and its used a lot here to.

This side issue of intergration,may very well become the dominint issue of the whole Mexican immigrants issue.

I have only ever met 1 Mexican,so I cant say,but they do seem to have a superior attitude,that they are better than yanks.

I dont know what they teach in Mexican schools about history,but they do seem to want their territory back type attitude.

This single issue,IMO,will alienate Americans against relaxing Immigration laws more than any other issue.

I guess you haven't been reading Foolsworthy's posts. There are some Americans who are vehemently anti-Roman Catholic.

Ive ignored his posts for awhile now.

SMW,

You seem overly concerned with how people choose to spend their money. You were concerned in one of your posts about how many vacations I take. It is really none of your business how people spend their money. If they choose to spend it on hair care products, pet products, going to the movies, going on vacations, owning more than one car, it is all their business and not yours.

If you wish to not go to a beauty parlor or buy shampoo, not have a pet, not go to the movies, not go on vacations, not own two cars, fine, that is your business. You business starts with your wallet and ends before it reaches mine.

I will spend my money as I see fit without any imput from you, thank you very much.

Well paul at least you're trying to see things from the average american joe's point of view.
my hat is off to you for that. :)

Dont get me wrong Ren,if I was an American Id feel the same,more extreme actually.

But as Im not,Im trying to view both sides of the coin,ya gotta admit,its been kinda quite around here of late.

What Im saying is,that small fact dosent bother people sneeking into the US.
No it doesn't because we're not ENFORCING our own laws currently. We're the world's laughing stock. In Mexico, they'll shoot your ass if you're an illegal. In the US, our authorities can't even ask an illegal to produce the proper papers, and moreover, we can't do anything about it WHEN we catch 'em here. President Bush is failing to protect us for this is nothing short of a fall-scale invasion. I'm getting to the point where I wouldn't care if they started mowing ‘em down in the streets of "little" Tijuana, California. I mean, seriously - fuck those people! I don’t care what their "motivation" is; they've broken the law, and they're hijacking the very country my ancestors built (with impunity, no less) because Washington is chock-full of vote whores.

No it doesn't because we're not ENFORCING our own laws currently. We're the world's laughing stock. In Mexico, they'll shoot your ass if you're an illegal. In the US, our authorities can't even ask an illegal to produce the proper papers, and moreover, we can't do anything about it WHEN we catch 'em here. President Bush is failing to protect us for this is nothing short of a fall-scale invasion. I'm getting to the point where I wouldn't care if they started mowing ‘em down in the streets of "little" Tijuana, California. I mean, seriously - fuck those people! I don’t care what their “motivation” is; they’ve broken the law, and they’re hijacking the very country my ancestors built (with impunity, no less) because Washington is chock-full of vote whores.
Would you consider shooting all illegals,or just Latino ones?

I was talking to a friend about Immigration here last week,he suggested,North America and the EU form a trading and open Immigration block,fuck everybody else.

I don't agree with Prae's 'mow 'em down in the streets' view but I do think we should deport every one we can. Just because we can't deport them all doesn't mean we shouldn't deport as many as we can. We can't catch every theif in the country either. Does that mean we should stop trying to catch theives.

Deport every illegal aliens you find.

Heavily fine everyone who knowingly employs an illegal alien.

Refuse all government benefits to illegal aliens including food stamps, welfare, education and housing.

You don't reward law breakers.

SMW,

You seem overly concerned with how people choose to spend their money. You were concerned in one of your posts about how many vacations I take. It is really none of your business how people spend their money. If they choose to spend it on hair care products, pet products, going to the movies, going on vacations, owning more than one car, it is all their business and not yours.

If you wish to not go to a beauty parlor or buy shampoo, not have a pet, not go to the movies, not go on vacations, not own two cars, fine, that is your business. You business starts with your wallet and ends before it reaches mine.

I will spend my money as I see fit without any imput from you, thank you very much.Frogger it sounds like you infact,
own more than one car.
Take more than one vacation.
Buy pet products.
Go to movies.

Please tell me-hair and beauty products-truth now.

I have only ever met 1 Mexican,so I cant say,but they do seem to have a superior attitude,that they are better than yanks.
LOL - I've never met a more useless group of people in my life (aside from the blacks, that is). I mean, seriously - what the hell have they ever accomplished? The Aztec calendar!? Ritual suicide/murder? Fucking tacos? Pffft - yeah. :rolleyes: Thanks, guys. Sincerely. You've made the world a better place.

Paul,

I own three cars and might be buying a fourth.

I go on a lot of vacations, probably close to a half dozen a year, some years even more. If you count my place in Florida as being a vacation I spend about half the year on vacation.

My wife and I not only go to the movies quite a bit but we also go to Broadway plays and the opera both of which cost a hell of a lot more than a movie.

We spend a lot on restaurants too. In the last two days we ate out four times and we are planning on going out to The Hamptons with friends for lunch tomorrow.

I don't own a pet but I do spend a couple hundred dollars a year on my fish pond. The koi aren't really pets though because I can only take them for a walk when there is a heavy rain.

I spend nothing, zilch, nada, nichts, for hair care products unless you count the razor blades and shaving cream I use to shave my head each morning.


I don't understand people who worry about how others spend their money. I don't ask others to account to me for how they spend their money and I don't expect others to ask me to account for how I spend my money.

Paul,

I own three cars and might be buying a fourth.

I go on a lot of vacations, probably close to a half dozen a year, some years even more. If you count my place in Florida as being a vacation I spend about half the year on vacation.

My wife and I not only go to the movies quite a bit but we also go to Broadway plays and the opera both of which cost a hell of a lot more than a movie.

We spend a lot on restaurants too. In the last two days we ate out four times and we are planning on going out to The Hamptons with friends for lunch tomorrow.

I don't own a pet but I do spend a couple hundred dollars a year on my fish pond. The koi aren't really pets though because I can only take them for a walk when there is a heavy rain.

I spend nothing, zilch, nada, nichts, for hair care products unless you count the razor blades and shaving cream I use to shave my head each morning.


I don't understand people who worry about how others spend their money. I don't ask others to account to me for how they spend their money and I don't expect others to ask me to account for how I spend my money.Haha,well done Frogger,ya worked all your life and were smart in how you used your money,enjoy everyday of it.

I was talking to a friend about Immigration here last week,he suggested,North America and the EU form a trading and open Immigration block,fuck everybody else.
Although that's fundamentally un-American in concept, there's merit to your friend's plan. Other people/cultures don't share our values, and most likely, they never will, hence such a system would have an inheriant advantage over the one we've got in place currently. That said, no French people, please. The rest are fine. ;)

Although that's fundamentally un-American in concept, there's merit to your friend's plan. Other people/cultures don't share our values, and most likely, they never will, hence such a system would have an inheriant advantage over the one we've got in place currently. That said, no French people, please. The rest are fine. ;)
zzzzzzzz,your still fretting over that french babe.

I thought also that he had a reasonable argument.
Tho,as you say,not only unAmerican,it goes against every EU equality law there is,tho,thats all politically correctness bullshit.

Im convinced all white people have a racist streak,whether they admit it or not.Whether they know it or not.

The western powers, especially you guys have left the world in a 'us and them' situation,so what have we to loose,nothing.

Im convinced all white people have a racist streak,whether they admit it or not.Whether they know it or not.

As soon as you say ALL you make your statement wrong. A lot of white people have a racist streak but then so do a lot of black, brown, red and yellow people.

As soon as you say ALL you make your statement wrong. A lot of white people have a racist streak but then so do a lot of black, brown, red and yellow people.OK. I can agree with that.But isnt black.brown,red and yellow racism a reaction to the white variety.

Americans spend $2 billion a year on dental products -- toothpaste, mouthwash and dental floss.

My point is not that we should curtail our personal spending to cover the costs of providing basic human services for undocumented persons.
Are you serious!?!? Guffaw. Yeah, I'll be sure to cut back on my toothpaste and mouthwash consumption if it'll help someone who's broken our law find a gratis doctor and comfortable living arrangements on my dime.

What a fantastic plan you've got there!!!! :thumbs: :rolleyes:
Also, IMHO, making alot of Americans look like money-grubbing tightwads who believe cash is more important than human lives.
When it feeds our LIGITIMATE population, it is.

Ligitimate population-I like that.

OK. I can agree with that.But isnt black.brown,red and yellow racism a reaction to the white variety.

No, Paul, it is not. Racism has been around for eons. Blacks often had whites as slaves. Japanese felt so superior to whites that they forbid their entry into Japan. The Chinese felt so superior to whites they restricted them to certain clearly defined areas. Racism is a product of race. Until we are all melded into some sort of light brown race there will be racism.

I know that Japan feared western culture contaminating Japanese culture,

maybe thats whats going on in America today.

OK. I can agree with that.But isnt black.brown,red and yellow racism a reaction to the white variety.
No, their "racism" is a reaction to having been exploited by us. We seemed to have passed them by in the food chain, and they're resentful because of it. I don't think we should have to rationalize why they act the way they do. In short, they're lesser people (in terms of accomplishments), and moreover, in the back of their minds, they know it (but refuse to acknowledge that fact publicly). Their comedians make fun of the way we talk, walk, and dance because that's pretty much all they've got on us. We're not even allowed to make a joke at their expense. Talk about inequality.....there's a pretty hefty dose of it here in America.

Probably wasn't necessary to use an example to prove how worthless and burdensome these people are. Seems most of the population here believes that already.

Wait a second. Aren't you the one that thinks American citizens too poor to afford health insurance are worthless and burdensome? Yet here you are defending people who've broken our laws to be here, and their "right" to use our already fragile healthcare system for free.

Nice set of values you've got there, SMW. And I thought you loved America. :rolleyes:

Wait a second. Aren't you the one that thinks American citizens too poor to afford health insurance are worthless and burdensome? Yet here you are defending people who've broken our laws to be here, and their "right" to use our already fragile healthcare system for free.

Nice set of values you've got there, SMW. And I thought you loved America. :rolleyes:
It boggles the mind, doesn't it, Fran?

My point is, even though they may be an expensive burden, like Frannie pointed out... we're a rich nation. And supposedly a humanitarian nation.

What do you know about humanitarianism, SMW? You'd deny basic medical coverage to some 47 million poor Americans, but 15-20 million illegal immigrants are deserving of our help and pity because we're a rich nation and we can afford it.

Sheesh. You are some piece of work, lady.

It boggles the mind, doesn't it, Fran?

I think she's shroomin'. Seriously, no one can contradict themselves that robustly and that often without being completely lost in the ozone. :lolhit:

I know that Japan feared western culture contaminating Japanese culture,

maybe thats whats going on in America today.

Yeah, Native Americans felt the same way....

Shit werent they on the ball....

I think she's shroomin'. Seriously, no one can contradict themselves that robustly and that often without being completely lost in the ozone. :lolhit:
I would agree that it's a pretty raging case of cognitive dissonance. Her stance on this makes zero sense.

What exactly happens to Americans with no medicare when they take sick.

Obviously they dont just stay home and die,I take it they recieve treatment.

They are taken care of. Hell, if we take care of illegal Mexicans don't you think we take care of legal citizens.

The major difference between those who are insured and those who are not insured is in where they go for treatment. The insured go to private doctors. The uninsured go to health clinics or emergency rooms. Both the insured and uninsured go to hospital when necessary.

OK sorry,what I meant to say is,who funds the health centers and ER rooms.

I don't know how it works in other areas but when I go to hospital I pay a premium over and above the cost of my care. That premium goes to pay for the treatment of people who cannot afford to pay for their own care.

OK sorry,what I meant to say is,who funds the health centers and ER rooms.

Yep, the paying people pay for those who don't pay. The only time I've been to an emergency room as an adult, I got billed $900 for about one hour of treatment, 15 minutes of which was a actual doctor treating me. The thing I extracted out of that visit was to avoid the emergency room at all costs....thus, middle class people are screwed because they have to make a choice between their credit and a bill that will wipe out their finances. Poor people, on the other hand, have nothing to lose, since their credit is probably screwed anyways.

Poorer off people in say low paid jobs,
do they not have contributions paid by their employer?

If not,should the federal Government not cover their costs.

Poorer off people in say low paid jobs,
do they not have contributions paid by their employer?

In some cases they do and in some cases they don't. It depends on the employer. That is also the case with people in not so low paid jobs and with the self employed.

If not,should the federal Government not cover their costs.

No the federal government should not cover their costs. When you say the federal government you actually me the taxpayers. Why should taxpayers be forced to subsidize someone else's health care? If they need health care it is available to them. The major difference is that they don't have the option of elective health care and they even have that if they are willing to be inconvenienced by going to a clinic or a hospital emergency room.

Do we give health care to those who are in low paying jobs and don't have health care and not to those who are in higher paying jobs that don't offer health care? What should the cutoff point be? Should the cutoff point be higher in states that have a lower cost of living than in states with a higher cost of living? What if it is someone who can really afford health care but purchasing it would mean he/she couldn't live in the lifestyle he/she wanted?
What kind of health care coverage should they get? Should lit cover elective surgery, annual checkups, cosmetic surgery? Who picks the health insurer, the individual or the government?

What do you know about humanitarianism, SMW? You'd deny basic medical coverage to some 47 million poor Americans, but 15-20 million illegal immigrants are deserving of our help and pity because we're a rich nation and we can afford it.

Sheesh. You are some piece of work, lady.

What a surprise... the Bobsey Liberals have me double-teamed.

Quit twisting my words, Frannie. Nobody is denying 'basic medical coverage' to anyone... including the 47 million 'poor people' (BTW, that term is a joke... you're included in that number, aren't you? Consider yourself POOR, do you? You're a hypocrite, my dear.)

They're deserving of our help because they're HUMAN BEINGS. And although you'd both like to convince us that every single one of them demand free medical care, that's not true and just another desperate exaggeration on your part. Prae's already told us what he thinks of their race. Now why don't you fess up and tell us what YOU really think of them? That way we can clear up for once and for all who the racist bigots are around here. I have a feeling your stance has way less to do with the cost of medical care and way more to do with your prejudice.

:rolleyes:
SMW

I swear to god I am not a liberal.
In my mind, liberalism equals Communism.
There, got THAT out in the open!!!

If I were a lib, I could never show my face to my kinfolk again. They'd disown me.:eek:

I swear to god I am not a liberal.
In my mind, liberalism equals Communism.
There, got THAT out in the open!!!

If I were a lib, I could never show my face to my kinfolk again. They'd disown me.:eek:

I can relate, Ren. I am not a liberal either. In fact, I have a co-worker I often take breaks with because we enjoy discussing politics and such. He's a young man of about 34 and a staunch Conservative. He often asks me what the hot topic on Allforums is... and yesterday I mentioned this subject. He became DEATHLY quiet and started talking about something else. I read his signal loud and clear... he doesn't agree with me and is surprised at my position. We silently agreed not to talk about it anymore. The next time I saw him, we discussed PETA and whether or not it's cruel to raise chickens for the colonel.

Just proves it's really difficult to assign people to certain categories and expect them to stay there, isn't it?

:lolhit:
SMW

Yeah, my granny used to say...."Never discuss politics or religion. BAD THINGS happen."

Of course, without these 2 hot topics, this place would be dead.:eek:

Ren, on a hunt for Commies....... and remember, Commies are everywhere......

Yeah, my granny used to say...."Never discuss politics or religion. BAD THINGS happen."

Of course, without these 2 hot topics, this place would be dead.:eek:

Ren, on a hunt for Commies....... and remember, Commies are everywhere......

Awww, I don't know if it's always a bad idea. I get to tell my friend all about stupid things the bleeding-hearts around here say, and we always have a big laugh about it!

Guess it's just better to have friends who agree with one's beliefs... or if they don't, THEN don't talk about it!

:lolhit:
SMW

Ren McCarthy eh.

Yep, that's me.

You shoulda seen my Dad and HIS family.

They made Barry Goldwater look like Abbie Hoffman.

Now Im gonna have to go google Goldwater and Hoffman.

the 47 million 'poor people' (BTW, that term is a joke... you're included in that number, aren't you? Consider yourself POOR, do you? You're a hypocrite, my dear.)

Once again, you keep trying to make this about me. I'm talking about others - people not like you and me (as I've already pointed out elsewhere, not everyone has the same opportunities, drive, smarts, etc.). I'm talking about people who work at minimum-wage jobs that offer no healthcare benefits at all, part-time Wal*Mart employees (and the vast majority of them are part-time which allows the Waltons to rape them by offering low wages AND no benefits), retired people on fixed incomes whose employers suddenly wipe out their pensions and retirement plans, working middle-class families whose employers can no longer afford to offer medical benefits to their employees, folks whose medical coverage for children and dependents is pulled out from under them, the list goes on and on. THOSE are the people I want to have basic healthcare coverage. As I said before, this isn't about me; I can carry the freight. MILLIONS more cannot.

They're deserving of our help because they're HUMAN BEINGS.

If you believe this, you must also believe that the people I listed above (actual REAL U.S. citizens) are also deserving of our help because they're human beings, too. Anything less and your hypocrisy will be showing.

Prae's already told us what he thinks of their race.

What specific race are you talking about? Illegal aliens come from many countries and are of many races.

Now why don't you fess up and tell us what YOU really think of them?

I think those who enter this country illegally should be sent back wherever they came from, immediately. I think we need to start enforcing our immigration laws. I think we need to beef up port inspections and border patrols. I think people who knowingly hire illegal aliens should be heavily fined, and when the hiring of illegals is egregious, there should be jail time for the employer, too.

We already know what you think of people who break our laws to live here - you welcome and appreciate them, and fight for their rights. What other criminal types earn your approbation? Do you have just as much feeling for, say, Haitians the come to the US illegally? What about Cubans? Guatemalans? Chinese? Vietnamese? And why don't law-abiding American CITIZENS deserve the same protection, affection, and support you afford the Mexican nationals that break our laws to live here illegally?

:confused:

I think those who enter this country illegally should be sent back wherever they came from, immediately. I think we need to start enforcing our immigration laws. I think we need to beef up port inspections and border patrols. I think people who knowingly hire illegal aliens should be heavily fined, and when the hiring of illegals is egregious, there should be jail time for the employer, too.

We already know what you think of people who break our laws to live here - you welcome and appreciate them, and fight for their rights. What other criminal types earn your approbation? Do you have just as much feeling for, say, Haitians the come to the US illegally? What about Cubans? Guatemalans? Chinese? Vietnamese? And why don't law-abiding American CITIZENS deserve the same protection, affection, and support you afford the Mexican nationals that break our laws to live here illegally?

:confused:
Pretty much, in a nutshell....

Well put, Fran. (I mean, the last part, that is. :D)

Pretty much, in a nutshell....

Well put, Fran. (I mean, the last part, that is. :D)

I'm not surprised you keep agreeing with her, Prae. She keeps repeating the same thing over and over and over... and it never get's any more accurate.

Gonna say it one more time. Just to make sure you both choose to ignore it...

NOBODY IN THIS COUNTRY IS DENIED MEDICAL CARE BECAUSE THEY CAN'T AFFORD IT.

Not Vietnamese, not Walmart workers, not Cubans, not Haitians, not Chinese, not Mexicans... and not LEGAL U.S. CITIZENS who don't have insurance, either because they can't afford it, or would rather spend their money elsewhere until the govt pays for their coverage... like Frannie.

To say otherwise (and especially to keep repeating it)... is distorting the truth in an effort to prove whatever point it is you're trying to make.

Either say something NEW or move on to another discussion. You're looking more and more like Dumb & Dumber on this topic.

SMW

I can relate, Ren. I am not a liberal either.
Your position on this couldn't be any more 'raging liberal' (of the most egregious kind, IMO) if you wanted it to be. Hell, you're making Fran look like a conservative here, and in her defense, at least her argument is logical and consistent.
Just proves it's really difficult to assign people to certain categories and expect them to stay there, isn't it?
That doesn't make you unique, SMW, nor does it indicate that you're thinking "outta the box"; it simply means your argument suffers from a logical disconnect. This isn't about right vs. left; it's about right vs. wrong.
Prae's already told us what he thinks of their race.
Actually, as a whole, I'm pissed at them, so needless to say, they're not gonna wanna hear how I feel regarding ILLEGAL immigration (not that they'd care either way) - especially when you take into consideration the fact that the entitlement mentality seems to be endemic to their "race". I'm pissed at their government, and I'm pissed at the apologists. You might as well make it okay to steal if you're hungry, or speed when you're late. The law is the law, and it's no different here than it is anywhere else (with the exception of the fact that we don't enforce it, of course).

OTOH, on an individual basis, I've found them to be very warm people, but with that said, this isn't a fucking popularity contest - it's OUR country we're talking about here; a country they have NO RIGHT to be in illegally, end of story.

There is simply no logical way for you to win this debate, period. You're thinking with your heart, and not with your head.

Your position on this couldn't be any more 'raging liberal' (of the most egregious kind, IMO) if you wanted it to be. Hell, you're making Fran look like a conservative here, and in her defense, at least her argument is logical and consistent.

That doesn't make you unique, SMW, nor does it indicate that you're thinking "outta the box"; it simply means your argument suffers from a logical disconnect. This isn't about right vs. left; it's about right vs. wrong.

Actually, as a whole, I'm pissed at them, so needless to say, they're not gonna wanna hear how I feel regarding ILLEGAL immigration (not that they'd care either way) - especially when you take into consideration the fact that the entitlement mentality seems to be endemic to their "race". I'm pissed at their government, and I'm pissed at the apologists. You might as well make it okay to steal if you're hungry, or speed when you're late. The law is the law, and it's no different here than it is anywhere else (with the exception of the fact that we don't enforce it, of course).

OTOH, on an individual basis, I've found them to be very warm people, but with that said, this isn't a fucking popularity contest - it's OUR country we're talking about here; a country they have NO RIGHT to be in illegally, end of story.

There is simply no logical way for you to win this debate, period. You're thinking with your heart, and not with your head.

How funny to hear YOU, of all people, spout the law & order speech. Aren't you the same one who accused me of sucking cop sausage just the other day? Yeah, right... you're a big believer in following the letter of the law. :rolleyes:

And while we're on the subject... who appointed you judge over what's right and what's wrong?

I say showing illegal aliens compassion is right. And since that's what the U.S. does that most people here are bitching about, I'd say that puts me on the same side as Uncle Sam. I couldn't care less whether you consider me left, right or sideways.

If you don't like the way things are, change it. But don't expect to convince me we have to 'save America' by sending some grandmother/mother/child back to Mexico just because they don't have the proper papers. Not all Mexicans are bad people... and not all of them all illegals. That's MY point, dumplin.

:thumbs:
SMW

NOBODY IN THIS COUNTRY IS DENIED MEDICAL CARE BECAUSE THEY CAN'T AFFORD IT.
And how many times do we have to tell you that's not the goddamned point.

Just as the strength of a solitary brick will not save a poorly built structure, your bold typeface won't redeem your ridiculous stance anent this topic.

I see you've set aside some "special time" to humiliate yourself on the subject. Most repair manuals are more intuitive than you are, and far less turgid to read, at that.

On that note, we're all payin' for the people who can't afford healthcare, and using your logic - you wanna throw another 15 million people on top of it (who have no right to be here, but I digress). Well, that's just fuckin' brilliant, SMW. Of course, I get what you're trying to say NOW....your argument makes TOTAL sense; they're "good people"! :thumbs: :rolleyes:
Yeah, right... you're a big believer in following the letter of the law.
With the difference being that I'm punished when I'm caught breaking it. Refute that one, smartass.
And while we're on the subject... who appointed you judge over what's right and what's wrong?
The same could be said of you. I would say the Constitution and logic backs me up, whereas I'm simply dying to know what your excuse is (oh, wait.....that's right.....you offered up the "good people" defense, didn't you? :rolleyes: ).

Our Constitution guarantees that the United States government will protect our republic from foreign invaders. In the case of illegal immigration, these people have invaded us by crossing our borders in California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas. Illegal immigration is (surprise, surprise) "illegal", and if you don't think these people are invaders, then you're mistaken.

Over 50 hospitals in California alone have been closed due to the fact they couldn't turn a profit because they were too busy giving free medical services to illegal aliens. In fact, some of these hospitals were delivering more illegal babies then they were legitimate U.S. babies (whose parents pay, no less, but why let that get in the way of your uber female "defense" here).

Unfortunately, due to an obscene loophole in our constitution, it grants their mommies the ability to come over gratis, too. In short, I think it's time for a 28th amendment. As it stands currently, the Fourteenth Amendment allows illegal immigrants, who have no respect for the law, to get welfare and education benefits for free. This is unacceptable, period. As a matter of fact, not only is it unacceptable, but we're committing a slow form of national suicide by letting it continue unabated. That, my friend, is a fact.
But don't expect to convince me we have to 'save America' by sending some grandmother/mother/child back to Mexico just because they don't have the proper papers. Not all Mexicans are bad people... and not all of them all illegals. That's MY point, dumplin.
Firstly, (in case you're confused) I'm not talking about legal Mexicans here (although, most of 'em are bigger apologists than you are, but whatever), and secondly, this has absolutely NOTHING to do with them being "good people"; it's about the law, period.

I mean, seriously.....your "point" is so logically flawed, it's comical. Some "good people" do crack in back alleyways - does that mean I should support their habit when it's to the detriment of our society? IOW, if your house was infested with carpenter ants, would you sprinkle wood shavings on the studs, or would you be a little more proactive and call the Orkin man? Using your logic, I wouldn't be half surprised if you said "that's what insurance is for". :rolleyes:

Now, if you care to apologize for shamefully wasting my time, I'll consider accepting it, and hopefully, we can move on from there.

And how many times do we have to tell you that's not the goddamned point.

Just as the strength of a solitary brick will not save a poorly built structure, your bold typeface won't redeem your ridiculous stance anent this topic.

I see you've set aside some "special time" to humiliate yourself on the subject. Most repair manuals are more intuitive than you are, and far less turgid to read, at that.

On that note, we're all payin' for the people who can't afford healthcare NOW, and using your logic - you wanna throw another 15 million people on top of it (who have no right to be here, but I digress). Well, that's just fuckin' brilliant, SMW. Of course, I get what you're trying to say NOW....your argument makes TOTAL sense; they're "good people"! :thumbs: :rolleyes:

If it makes you feel better, please refer to them as HUMAN BEINGS instead of 'good people.' They may not all be good, but one thing's certain... they are all human beings. Another thing you're wrong about, Prae. We're already paying for those 15 million people 'who have no right to be here'. I'm not advocating that any additional people be supported... good, bad or otherwise. And my use of the bold print was to emphasize what Fran keeps saying (and you keep agreeing with her about)... that we are taking care of illegal aliens at the expense of red-blooded Americans who can't afford insurance. That's a blatant lie.

With the difference being that I'm punished when I'm caught breaking it. Refute that one, smartass.

You're sure singing a different tune that you sang over on the cops thread. Why, to hear you tell it, law enforcement is the armpit of this country... and now you're expecting them to enforce the laws YOU want enforced. You're the one talking in circles, Prae. And contradicting yourself around every curve.

The same could be said of you. I would say the Constitution and logic back me up, whereas I'm simply dying to know what your excuse is (oh, wait.....that's right.....you offered up the "good people" defense, didn't you? :rolleyes: ).

Our Constitution guarantees that the United States government will protect our republic from foreign invaders. In the case of illegal immigration, these people have invaded us by crossing our borders in California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas. Illegal immigration is (surprise, surprise) "illegal", and if you don't think these people are invaders, then you're mistaken.

INVADERS, huh? Poor people crossing the border in order to find work, earn money and feed their families. Yeah, we should all be scared to death of these invaders. Next you'll tell me they're holding you down and force-feeding you tacos.

Over 50 hospitals in California alone have been closed due to the fact they couldn't turn a profit because they were too busy giving free medical services to illegal aliens. In fact, some of these hospitals were delivering more illegal babies then they were legitimate U.S. babies (whose parents pay, no less, but why let that get in the way of your uber female "defense" here).

Unfortunately, due to an obscene loophole in our constitution, it grants their mommies the ability to come over gratis, too. In short, I think it's time for a 28th amendment. As it stands currently, the Fourteenth Amendment allows illegal immigrants, who have no respect for the law, to get welfare and education benefits for free. This is unacceptable, period. As a matter of fact, not only is it unacceptable, but we're committing a slow form of national suicide by letting it continue unabated. That, my friend, is a fact.

So you think all parents of U.S. babies born in California PAY their hospital bills and don't apply for welfare benefits, huh? Man are you naive. We could get rid of every other person who lives in CA, and they'd still have problems. Pick a better example next time.

Firstly, (in case you're confused) I'm not talking about legal Mexicans here (although, most of 'em are bigger apologists than you are, but whatever), and secondly, this has absolutely NOTHING to do with them being "good people"; it's about the law, period.

I mean, seriously.....your "point" is so logically flawed, it's comical. Some "good people" do crack in back alleyways - does that mean I should support their habit when it's to the detriment of our society? IOW, if your house was infested with carpenter ants, would you sprinkle wood shavings on the studs, or would you be a little more proactive, and call the Orkin man? Using your logic, I wouldn't be half surprised if you said "that's what insurance is for". :rolleyes:

Now, if you care to apologize for shamefully wasting my time, I'll consider accepting it, and hopefully, we can move on from there.

Since I notice you spent over 45 minutes typing this rebuttal, I'd say you're the one wasting your time. I'm not trying to convince you or anyone else... I'm just stating my opinion.

This is what's behind my reasoning. It's stood in the harbor of New York for over 121 years, sending out the same message to people everywhere. I can't help it if these 'huddled masses' didn't come thru NY... the message remains the same:

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,

With conquering limbs astride from land to land;

Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand

A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame

Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name

Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand

Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command

The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.

"Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she

With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

To paraphrase your own poetic musings... a solitary brick in a well-built structure -- the United States of America.

If it makes you feel better, please refer to them as HUMAN BEINGS instead of 'good people.'
That's an inconsequential distinction, for they're here illegally, either way.

Shoplifters are "human beings", too - what's your point?
They may not all be good, but one thing's certain... they are all human beings.
I suppose in the bizarro fog of your world, that makes the illegals here OUR responsibility, especially when they break the law and cut in line to get here.
Another thing you're wrong about, Prae. We're already paying for those 15 million people 'who have no right to be here'.
Oh, I'm fully aware of that, but the incredibly obvious point that seems to have thrown you for a loop here is the fact that we shouldn't have to.
I'm not advocating that any additional people be supported... good, bad or otherwise.
Nonsense. Your little "incentive" package here exacerbates the problem 10 fold.
And my use of the bold print was to emphasize what Fran keeps saying (and you keep agreeing with her about)... that we are taking care of illegal aliens at the expense of red-blooded Americans who can't afford insurance. That's a blatant lie.
Just who in the blue fuck do you think is paying for it NOW, SMW?!?! I'll tell you: the people who CAN pay (i.e. the ones who get stuck paying 900 dollars for an emergency room visit, like Leper).

No one here would be ludicrous enough to claim that the Americans who can't afford healthcare are the ones paying for the illegals. That's an absolutely ridiculous supposition, to say the least.
You're sure singing a different tune that you sang over on the cops thread. Why, to hear you tell it, law enforcement is the armpit of this country... and now you're expecting them to enforce the laws YOU want enforced.
Nope, just the ones already on the books. That said, my distain for law enforcement TYPES (operative word) has nothing to do with the point I'm making here. Just because I don't like the way they abuse their power doesn't mean I don't want 'em to do their goddamned job. Do you understand the distinction I'm making, or is this (yet again) another glaringly obvious point lost on you?
INVADERS, huh?
Yep, unequivocally.
Poor people crossing the border in order to find work, earn money and feed their families.
Their "motivation" is ancillary to the damage they've done here - for THAT'S THE REAL POINT, and without trying to belabor the obvious, what they're doing is ILLEGAL (or is it your contention that we should be able to selectively pick and choose to obey only the laws we deem necessary?).
Next you'll tell me they're holding you down and force-feeding you tacos.
Nope. Just their culture, language, and customs.
So you think all parents of U.S. babies born in California PAY their hospital bills and don't apply for welfare benefits, huh? Man are you naive.
Nice way to distort the obvious. There are legal Mexicans who can't pay for their children either. Hell, most of 'em become "legal" by having their children here in the first place.
We could get rid of every other person who lives in CA, and they'd still have problems.
Well, at least that'd take care of the Mexican population there.
I'm not trying to convince you or anyone else... I'm just stating my opinion.
Yeah, and it's a completely whacked and grossly offensive one, at that.
This is what's behind my reasoning. It's stood in the harbor of New York for over 121 years, sending out the same message to people everywhere. I can't help it if these 'huddled masses' didn't come thru NY... the message remains the same:

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,

With conquering limbs astride from land to land;

Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand

A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame

Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name

Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand

Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command

The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.

"Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she

With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

To paraphrase your own poetic musings... a solitary brick in a well-built structure -- the United States of America.
Yeah, well lady liberty doesn't make the laws, SMW. Sophistry aside, that placard most certainly doesn't say, "Give us your tired, your poor, and your huddled masses WITHOUT DOCUMENTATION".

We have rules like every other CIVILIZED nation on Earth to protect the people ALREADY LIVING HERE. Now, the Mexicans can either follow 'em, or get the fuck out - the choice is theirs.

Yeah, well lady liberty doesn't make the laws, SMW. Sophistry aside, that placard most certainly doesn't say, "Give us your tired, your poor, and your huddled masses WITHOUT DOCUMENTATION".

You're right, Prae. And she doesn't say anything about WITH DOCUMENTATION, either.

So there.

:hahanot:
SMW

, that placard most certainly doesn't say, "Give us your tired, your poor, and your huddled masses WITHOUT DOCUMENTATION".

.

That's exactly it, in a nutshell, Prae--without documentation, we don't know who these people are.

They COULD be terrorists, professional criminals, murderers..it boggles the mind.......or, even worse, carriers of some deadly disease.
That fact alone scares the bejesus out of me----monies and the tax burden aside.

You're right, Prae. And she doesn't say anything about WITH DOCUMENTATION, either.
Thankfully enough, there are those amongst us who decided a long time ago that the placard itself didn't spell out the obligations people have to come here legally. Just because that awe-inspiring piece of bronzed cajolery doesn't say anything about taxes doesn't mean I don't have to pay 'em. Or in your mind, do you think it spells out (in detail, no less) what's required of each and every first generation American???

You're living in a utopian fantasy, SMW.

I haate to repeat myself but when you post something dumb you really post something dumb, SMW. This is just a single example of the idiocy you are posting in defense of your views vis a vis illegal aliens.


INVADERS, huh? Poor people crossing the border in order to find work, earn money and feed their families. Yeah, we should all be scared to death of these invaders. Next you'll tell me they're holding you down and force-feeding you tacos.

It doesn't matter what their economic status is or why they are crossing the border and coming here illegally. No matter what the reasons the operative word is illegally. It is not a question of being scared of one invader. It is not even a question of being scared of lots of invaders. It is a question of national sovreignty. Just whose country do you think this is, SMW, Mexico's, Guatamala's, Ireland's? Do you think the United States belongs to the U.N. and should serve as the safety valve for every other country in the world? Do you think the United States is simply an extension of Mexico, a place where they send the excess population they don't want to deal with?

This is our country, not their's. We make the rules as to who can and cannot come here, not them. It doesn't matter how much money they have or why they want to come here. The final decision is our, not theirs.

Maybe you are willing to give up our national sovreignty but it is obvious that the vast majority of posters are not.

You can post your points all you want. You can post them in bolded all caps. It doesn't make them any more valid than they were the first time you posted them.

You are now free to call me a bigot, a racist and a hatemonger.

I'd be repeating myself if I called you those nasty names, Frogger. ;)

Truly surprising to me that so many seemingly intelligent people seem terrified of losing their freedom/money/national sovreignty to a bunch of poor people who fled their homeland looking for a better life. I've said this before and I will repeat myself here.

If we were being 'invaded' by 14 million white PhDs seeking life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness here... we'd welcome them with open arms.

That makes you hypocrites as well as bigots, racists and hatemongers.

I've made my point. Carry on with the brown-bashing. Should be fairly easy for most of you... you never even come face to face with those you fear and despise.

SMW

SMW, I don't know if you mean to call me , personally, a bigot or hatemonger, but I'd like to say this.

My family's been here for 400 years. In effect, we founded this place. We did not steal land nor give smallpox infected blankets to natives. We bought our land and I have the documentation to prove it.

My family has fought in every war this nation has ever been in--from King Philip's War to the present day. We fought in the Revolution at great personal cost. We fought in the Civil War--Union side--at great personal cost. My own gg grandpa lost his farm because he was off fighting the War and could not pay his taxes on the place.

These wars were fought for FREEDOM and to ensure others of that freedom. And opportunity.

I am not a bigot or hatemonger nor is my family. We are asking for one thing---proper documentation--no matter the color, race, nationality or educational background of the immigrant.

I am really sorry you cannot see that.